Can someone share the biblical basis for Christmas.

© MBM

Original Post
There is none:

Santa Claus is not in the "biblical instructions before leaving earth"

Christmas tree is not in the "biblical instructions before leaving earth"

The Biblical Basis for Christmas (Christ/Moses) is null and void.
Its a sham...

Way for the church in old Europe to control the populace and even the rulers of the time...

Its called "MASS" for a reason... Big Grin

as in "MASS" of fools....
I agree, there is no biblical basis for Xmas. Jesus was probably born in the Spring, ironically, about the time folks usually celebrate Easter. As I have noted in past years, the roots of this winter celebration can be found in traditions of Mithras, Saturnalia, Winter Solstice celebrations, and European pagan traditions such as Yule.
Merry Mithras!
And this means that Christmass should not be celebrated?

By the way, Gambit, "mass" comes from the Latin, "misseo," once said by the priest between morning prayer and the eucharist. It eventually became the name of the celebration of the worship service that included the eucharist, which I think is appropriate for the day.
quote:
Originally posted by Melesi:

And this means that Christmass should not be celebrated?


Of course not.

Is this at all inconsistent with the rationale of those fundamentalist Christians who look to Biblical inspiration/direction for all that they do though?
No, though it is a reasonable question.

Christians do not look to the Bible for "all" that they do, or we would not use cars, radios, computers, and English.

Christians look to the Bible for direction in truth, for the principles of living, and for the worldview from which the world can be and should be understood.

Christmas is one of those issues subsumed under the rubrics of 1 Corinthians and meat offered to idols. Meat offered to idols can be eaten by Christians because there is no reality behind the idol (this was addressed by the Hebrew prophets). So "eat, thank God, and enjoy yourself" is the essential teaching of Paul on that matter. Unless, of course, it makes another Christian to sin.

Celbrating Christmas, while it has its own dangers, is not a matter of disobeying God, who seems to approve of some festivals not expressly ordered in the Hebrew Bible (new moons, say). Just as Jews can celebrate Chanukkah, which is not a Biblical celebration, Christians can celebrate Christmas even though there is not a Biblical command or example to do so. It is or at least can be harmless fun. So why not? Certain types of fun are seen Biblically as blessing from God. This is like one of them.
quote:
Originally posted by Melesi:

It is or at least can be harmless fun. So why not? Certain types of fun are seen Biblically as blessing from God. This is like one of them.


Not to be too sarcastic here, but you'd think that in 2005 the Catholic Church would look at something like . . . masturbation . . . in a similar light. It sure seems like a "blessing from God" to me. bsm
It would, I suppose, if we thought of it only as it pertains to ourselves, individually. In other words, as long as we think self-centeredly many things will seem like that.

The problem that Catholics have with it is that it also involves the mind, and thus affects how we see each other (there are many discussions about the mind in ancient Christian texts, including Biblical ones that command purity in thinking), and it involves how we trust God even in and with our own bodies, which in a real sense are not ours but God's.

It is difficult to think outside the body, and while the Catholic Church may not always have done it right--and so all their conclusions may not be right--the direction they point us in is the right one.
quote:
Originally posted by Melesi:

It is difficult to think outside the body, and while the Catholic Church may not always have done it right--and so all their conclusions may not be right--the direction they point us in is the right one.


I hear you, but then how can Christmas - which is the most patently commercial/secular day of the year - be somehow exempt from this "purity" of thinking?
That depends on what you mean. If you mean "Christmas" as it is celebrated and endured by the majority of Americans--as a need for getting someone else a better gift than that person got me, counting the presents under the tree, the stress of not forgetting anyone, the rush of parties, the drinking (what was it Bill Cosby said about drinking too much--"Remember, you deserve this! You worked all week for this!" and "You're about to put your face in a place that was never meant for your face!"), the greed, the exhaustion, then it has nothing to do with it.

That doesn't make it sinful, necessarily, just wasteful (which could be a sin, I suppose).

But Christmas doesn't have to be like that. Giving out of love for another, not keeping track of who gave to you, not caring if you get anything or not, not caring about Santa, being thankful for the Birth that we [are supposed to] remember, using that gratitude as further impetus to live as God requires a Christian to live (which includes not scornfully judging those who are not as "pure" as we obviously spiritual people are, but allowing them there fun, too), these things can be done during Christmas with a "pure heart" and mind.

It all depends on how we use the time we are given, including such as time as this.
We are warned the practice of cutting and decorating trees for worship is done by heathens.

2-Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3-For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4-They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. 5-They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good. - Jeremiah 10:2-5


God has rules and regulations. We cannot make up our own forms of worship and expect him to accept it. It didn't work for Aaron's sons who offered strange worship. (Leviticus 10:1-3)

Christmas trees are graven images. Eek
quote:
Originally posted by DivineJoy:

We are warned the practice of cutting and decorating trees for worship is done by heathens.

2-Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3-For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4-They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. 5-They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good. - Jeremiah 10:2-5


God has rules and regulations. We cannot make up our own forms of worship and expect him to accept it. It didn't work for Aaron's sons who offered strange worship. (Leviticus 10:1-3)

Christmas trees are graven images. Eek


Melesi - your thoughts?
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
quote:
Originally posted by DivineJoy:

We are warned the practice of cutting and decorating trees for worship is done by heathens.

2-Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3-For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4-They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. 5-They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good. - Jeremiah 10:2-5


God has rules and regulations. We cannot make up our own forms of worship and expect him to accept it. It didn't work for Aaron's sons who offered strange worship. (Leviticus 10:1-3)

Christmas trees are graven images. Eek


Melesi - your thoughts?

I am not Melesi, but I do not believe that a Xmas tree is a graven image (literally an idol or fetish carved in wood or stone), unless you invest it with such meaning. I do not thing "idolatry" inheres in any object. If this were the case, then we would really be in trouble, because many things are fetishized in numerous cultures(clothes, colors, food, beverages, etc.).

I have had this argument before when attempting to take an inncer city Sunday school class to a museum that has a special display of artifacts from West Africa. I was accosted by a deacon who
said that by going into the building, we would be participating in idol worship and would be subject to demonic oppression. He causes such a ruckus that I had to cancel the trip.
kresge is right. A Christmas tree is not a graven image. I know of no one who bows down to one and prays to it or to Mother Earth or to Demeter or some other Earth Goddess during the month of December when the tree is in the house.

The tree is a decoration, a symbol of a seasonal celebration, like maple leaves and brown and red in the fall or lilies and pastel colors in Spring for Easter.

I find the selection of the Jeremiah passage interesting, because the entire passage--a scathing denunciation of idolatry--runs from verse 1 to verse 16, and when read in its entirety obviously means something other than the bringing of dead wood into the house. Even in the limited quote above, the last bold-print phrase shows that the meaning and concern is about something that is thought to do us "well" or "evil." That's not a Christmas tree, that's an idol. This is not the only place in the Bible where the sight of people venerating the works of their own hands is held up to scorn. In fact, if I read the Hebrew right, verse 5 should have in it, "They are like a scarecrow in a patch of [what's that last word--'otham--cucumbers?]."

At any rate, it is not about trees. It's about idol-worship.
Enflaming yourselves with idols under every green tree, [slaying the children] in the valleys under the clifts of the rocks? - Isaiah 57:5

idols / green tree = worship / graven image
slaying the children = lying to children sad

People bring trees into their house, decorate it, BOW BEFORE IT, bearing gifts. Eek

There are verses throughout the Holy Bible that warns us of green trees used in worship.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
There are verses throughout the Holy Bible that warns us of green trees used in worship.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"Used in worship." Precisely.

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