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Is America the best place to exercise what we consider our rights as human beings? Is America the best place to achieve whatever we consider success as Black people (the collective)? What arguments can be made for living in another country? What are the disadvantages or benefits?

If there is no place to "be"...... then what would that created government.... that societal structure look like?



Peace,
Virtue
Original Post

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quote:
Originally posted by virtue:



Is America the best place to exercise what we consider our rights as human beings?---virtue

[I]I think the answer is 'Yes'.

There does not need to be a particular argument to support 'living in another country'.

There are 35MM+ of us who openly declare ourselves to be of unknown African ancestry, wholly or in part.

Plus a similar number (it is estimated) who 'pass' knowingly or unknowingly.

If there is to be an argument, it will likely have to a plea for admittance.


Is America the best place to achieve whatever we consider success as Black people (the collective)?

Yes.

Yes. Where else would you suggest?

What arguments can be made for living in another country?

Any argument. They are all valid.

What are the disadvantages or benefits?

I don't see a benefit.

The first disadvantage I see is my/our loss of citizenship.

The second is our loss of equity from the investment we, and our ancestors have made in the currently most powerful civilization in the world.

It will be a disadvantage to have impose ourselves on the population and government of some nation that may not welcome the imposed 'diversity'.


If there is no place to "be"...... then what would that created government.... that societal structure look like?

If there is 'no place to be', we would be here.

It would look the same.


Peace,
Virtue
[/i]


PEACE

Jim Chester
I think a better way to phrase this question is to simply ask, Are you an assimilationist, or Nationalist? What have we gained so far in this country? is it worth the price our ancestors paid? what would africa be like today if it hadnt been depopulated for Europes advancement. How does our participating in this European Capitalist system benifit us. By benifiting us in this country help our brothers and sistas on the continent or the rest of the african diaspora.If there was land available for repatriation back to africa,would you go? If not why? Do you feel the possibilities of having ones own land and flag outweigh the so called comfortable position we have here in America? these are the questions I would ask, but since you asked it I would simply say, Africans no where will be respected until Africa is respected as a Continent.
quote:
Originally posted by James Wesley Chester:
I think the answer is 'Yes'.

There does not need to be a particular argument to support 'living in another country'.

There are 35MM+ of us who openly declare ourselves to be of unknown African ancestry, wholly or in part.

Plus a similar number (it is estimated) who 'pass' knowingly or unknowingly.

If there is to be an argument, it will likely have to a plea for admittance.


Mr. Chester... there's an argument that needs to be made for those who do not see the value in living anywhere outside of America and want to know the reasoning behind such a statement.... There is an argument to be made who see no worth in the attempt to exploit opportunities here in America...

quote:
Yes. Where else would you suggest?
I would not..... I am not qualified to... I am not that well studied... hence the focus on asking those in this forum..... All I can offer is an opinion based off of speculation.... and fantasy..... This would lead me to some South Eastern Island near the Sudan....

quote:
Any argument. They are all valid.
Mr. Chester... Please share your thoughts.... What arguments are you aware of?

quote:
The first disadvantage I see is my/our loss of citizenship.

The second is our loss of equity from the investment we, and our ancestors have made in the currently most powerful civilization in the world.

It will be a disadvantage to have impose ourselves on the population and government of some nation that may not welcome the imposed 'diversity'.
Perhaps some happy medium of these ideas, then? There was never an intent to suggest the bombardment of another culture.... There's an idea and then there's method.... Here I was just considering the idea first...

quote:
If there is 'no place to be', we would be here.

It would look the same.
I disagree..... When given no options.... People can sometimes make vastly different choices... There hope springs eternal....

Peace,
Virtue
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:
I think a better way to phrase this question is to simply ask, Are you an assimilationist, or Nationalist?---ZAKAR

I think that is a better question also.

Defintions are needed. Mine are:

Assimilationist: Development of the full parity of my/our ethnicity as African Americans.

Nationalist: Development of a separate government within the jurisdiction of the United States.


What have we gained so far in this country?

Freedom.

Citizenship, but not yet fulfilled.

Restored ethnicity as African Americans, and consequently reestablishing our ancestral nationality.

And growing.


is it worth the price our ancestors paid?

No. It is our (common) heritage and experience.

what would africa be like today if it hadnt been depopulated for Europes advancement.

We will never know. Certainly, it would be a group of nations of a much different profile.

The Atlantic Slave Trade was the foundation of the economies of three continents while decimating the economy of the continent of Africa.


How does our participating in this European Capitalist system benifit us.

I answered that in my preceding post.

By benifiting us in this country help our brothers and sistas on the continent or the rest of the african diaspora.

Historically, the better off we are as African American-Americans, the better off has been the circumstance Africans of all nations.

If there was land available for repatriation back to africa,would you go?

No. Many of us would choose to do so.

That is good.


If not why?

My heritage is here. All the people, I know, of my family are lived and are buried here. Their chosen investment is here, and they had the choice, at least, twice to leave.

I see no reason to throw my family away.

Others did that to us. Why in God's name would I do that to us?


Do you feel the possibilities of having ones own land and flag outweigh the so called comfortable position we have here in America?

Absolutely!!!!!

My difference is that I concluded we deserve all of that here.

So...I designed a banner (see my avatar).

I wrote a 'Pledge of Unity'

I maintain a website to help support and advance our ethnicity in the language and construction of the society we live in.


these are the questions I would ask, but since you asked it I would simply say, Africans no where will be respected until Africa is respected as a Continent.


I believe that respect will nost greatly enhanced when we recognize ourselves, we Americans of unknown African ancestry, as the ethncity we are, and the ancestral nationality we have.

African America.

PEACE

Jim Chester
I appreciate your response, well thought out, where as I might disagree with your choices ,they are yours and I respect your viewpoint. My whole point is we should at least allow ourselves the options of building a nation for ourselves, some may want to do it here on North American Soil, others may want to repatriate, I support the choices of both. But like Israel, we deserve a land and nation of our own.I dont think it should be done by force, but the option should be on the table.
In the old Man From U.N.C.L.E. television series there was an "evil" organization called T.H.R.U.S.H., it was referred to as a supranation.

That is what we need a Black supranation. Technology and global pollution make nationalism obsolete. The spread and dominance of European culture on the planet means there is nowhere to go. We must figure out how to cope with it where we stand. We need to create the:

Technological Heirarchy for the Ressurection and Unification of Super Humans

LOL

A global techno-economic pan-African organization. The internet provides the communication means but of course we would eventually have to encrypt.

umbrarchist
But like Israel, we deserve a land and nation of our own.I dont think it should be done by force, but the option should be on the table.---ZAKAR

We are unique among the people of the world.

We are an amalgam forced together, without choice in a containment constructed on our labor.

We cannot in turn impose ourselves, arguably 70MM strong, anywhere.

Our best place is this place.

We earned it.


PEACE

Jim Chester
No we shouldnt impose ourselves anywere, but we should begin to travel abroad study abroad , especially in Africa.I have many friends from all over the continent of Africa and the biggest problem between us is propaganda. Most brothers and sistas i know from the continent, deep down have a lot a of for africans in america and the diaspora. Once we begin to dig up our history , study who we are relate to our own the walls of ignorance will crumble. We are an african people you can hyphenate it , our add to it , but thats what we are. Look at the European, he may say he is an american ,but look at him globally he is a european and when decisions are made is it made in such a way in which it benifits the G8 where is our G8? Instead we just want to be accepted by these Europeans and hope one day they will say they are sorry for all they did to us and they now accept us as brothers and sistas. Never gonna happen.
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:
No we shouldnt impose ourselves anywere, but we should begin to travel abroad study abroad , especially in Africa.

While I don't have that ability personally, I agree. Relating to each other, close up, will definitely improve our understanding.

I have many friends from all over the continent of Africa and the biggest problem between us is propaganda. Most brothers and sistas i know from the continent, deep down have a lot a of for africans in america and the diaspora.

',,,Africans in America and the diaspora.'

What is the difference, as you see it?

I perceive the African Diaspora' as those out of Africa against their will, and their descendants.


Once we begin to dig up our history , study who we are relate to our own the walls of ignorance will crumble. We are an african people you can hyphenate it , our add to it , but thats what we are. Look at the European, he may say he is an american ,but look at him globally he is a european and when decisions are made is it made in such a way in which it benifits the G8 where is our G8? Instead we just want to be accepted by these Europeans and hope one day they will say they are sorry for all they did to us and they now accept us as brothers and sistas. Never gonna happen.


I see your point.

A major result of reestablishing our ancestral nationality will be parity status as a participating member in Pan-Africanism.

We simply 'unclaimed orphans' participating simply because we are 'black'.

That is an insult to ourselves.

Reesstablishing our relationship with the nations of Africa must, not should, be as a freestanding ethnicity unique in our own right.

African American.


PEACE

Jim Chester
when i said africans in america, i was being specfic to those of us in the united state, the diaspora also includes the US , i should have said the rest of the diaspora.I dont believe we are ethnically different, we just dont know who we are.like malcom said, "a cat can have kittens in a oven, it doesnt make the m biscuits" I just think we have so much more in common that differences. I think, even in our ignorance, we are more african than we will ever be american.when we were on the plantations as slaves the house negro loved the master more than he loved himself, anything that happened to the master it was as if it happened to the house negro, then you got them field negros ,they hated the master, anytime the master got sick they would pray he died, if his house caught on fire they wanted it to burn down. When it was time to run the field negro was ready he knew any place was better than the plantation. but not the house negro , he would say where would i eat like i eat now, wear the good cloths like i have now, master been good to us. you see the house negro only was concerned about his status not the masses of black people even though they suffered. ate the worst food lived in the worst quarters, the house negro was comfortable even if it was on the backs of the masses. We have the exact same situation today with these so called elite blacks ,who look down on the masses because they dont have it like they got it. in actuality its just embarrassing for these uppity negros to admit that the masses are suffering
Randall Robinson, an expatriate who moved to a Caribbean island, wrote a book about this topic called "Quitting America". It gives an insight about his life an that of his family since he has left the U.S. for a black nation.
In my own personal opinion, I feel as if when we fought for integration we gave up a lot more for a little gain. The biggest thing that we got from integration is the fact that we can spend our money anywhere we want, the little bit of it we do have. However, when a black person opens a business after MUCH struggling we won't even support it.
ZAKAR:

I don't think your assessment is reflects the driving force of African America.

Most people in all societies are followers.

They will change when the mood of the society changes.

You sound like you are not a part of that 'follower mentality'.

A minority of us developed African America.

A minority is carrying it forward.

Point the nose and the rest will follow.

PEACE

Jim Chester

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