The Arab slave trade: 200 million non-Muslim slaves from all colors and nationalities

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
22 Votes

 


British with slave trader

British colonial official with Islamic slave traders in Zanzibar. On the far right is Hamad bin Mohamed bin Jumah bin Rajab bin Mohamed bin Said al-Murghabi, more commonly known as Tippu Tip. He was the most notorious Islamic slaver. al-Murghabi died in 1905.

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About ten years ago while traveling in Asia I found a very unusual book which I have unfortunately not been able to find in the West. I was casually reading it in the bookstore and regret that I never purchased it due to space and weight restrictions I already had in my luggage. It was a 900-year old Muslim ‘slave manual’ translated into English from the original Arabic. It was basically a very detailed purchasing manual, describing the cultural and ethnic traits of slaves from different parts of the world in non-Islamic countries. This should not be a surprise since the Quran supports slavery and enable Muslims to keep slaves even in the modern age (i.e Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Mauritania, United Arab Emirates, Qatar).

Under Islamic laws, slavery is explicitly permitted.[145] As Saudi Sheikh Saleh Al-Fawzan, a member of the Senior Council of Clerics had said in 2003, those who argue that slavery is abolished are “ignorant, not scholars. They are merely writers. Whoever says such things is an infidel.” [146] Muhammad himself was a slaver. He not only owned many male [147][148] and female [149] slaves, but he also sold, captured, and raped [150]  his slaves. Even his wives owned slaves.

 

The manual demonstrated that Arabs were engaged in enslaving all peoples, not only Africans. Their travels around the world was not as much for mercenary purposes as to catch slaves and loot wealth. The manual also gave indications that Arabs actually created the entire slave export trade in Africa. Bits and pieces from history indicate that Muslims enslaved over 150 million African people and at least 50 million from other parts of the world. They also converted Africans into Islam, causing a complete social and financial collapse of the entire African continent apart from wealth attributed to a few regional African kings who became wealthy on the trade and encouraged it. This is a claim that is not well presented in Western information or education on slavery.  You can find a lot of very interesting and original historical materials in Asia and the East which have never found its way to the West.

 

The manual was written by an Arab slave trader describing some of the history of Arabian slavery. It contained character descriptions of slaves from all across West to East Europe, Africa, India, the Orient, Turkey (which proves that Turkey was not originally Islamic) and so on. It also showed that Arabs enslaved Indian people long before moghuls invaded the country. The most despised slaves according to the manual, was Indian and African slaves who were described in the most terrible terms. And the favorite slaves were Turkish slaves, and the second favorites were North European slaves. Slavery was not only black history; slavery was Islamic history around the world. More historical findings is pointing that over 150 million African slaves being traded by Arabs over a period of 14 centuries, and at least 50 million slaves of other ethnicities.

 

Muslim Slavery In The Modern Age: Real Life Stories
Francis Bok tells his story as a 20th century slave to Muslims in Sudan, captured as a child slave under Islamic sharia:

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Another escaped slave, Simon Deng, sold to a Muslim for the equivalent of $10, tells his story as a 20th century slave in the modern age where slavery continues to exist and be legalized under Islamic Sharia law. Simon Deng warns blacks in America not to be lured into Islam here blacks are still viewed as slave goods and merely used as soldiers to better Islamic agenda. Over 3.5 million people have been slaughtered by Muslims in Sudan.

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A.  Arabs and Slave Trade

By Shirley Madany

A flair for history is a prerequisite to understanding the Muslim world and its people. Their yesterdays are closely bound up with the here and now. A good grasp of geography will be helpful as well.

Slavery in Early Islamic History

It was intriguing to note in Bernard Lewis’ book, The Arabs in History, that paper was made first in China in the year 105 B.C. In A.D. 751, the Arabs defeated a Chinese contingent east of the ‘Jaxartes’. (Jaxartes is a river that lies on the border between China and present-day Afghanistan. Persian King Cyrus was killed fighting near this river, about 500 B.C.) The Arabs found some Chinese paper makers among their prisoners. Many such skills were brought into the Islamic world in this way. The use of paper spread rapidly across the Islamic world, reaching Egypt by A.D. 800 and Spain by the year 900. From the tenth century onwards, evidence is clear of paper-making occurring in countries of the Middle East and North Africa, as well as in the European country of Spain.

 

The Arabs profited from the craft of the paper makers they had captured as slaves. From archaeologists and records kept in ancient times, we learn that slave trade existed for a long time in the Arab world. Back in the days of the caliphs [early Muslim leaders], having a slave for a mother was not a stigma for a Muslim man. Due to polygamy, this was quite common.

At first the caliphs maintained a kind of aristocracy among themselves, making it imperative that the mother of a caliph was from one of the Arab tribes. However, as more and more slaves adopted the religion of Islam, noble birth and tribal prestige lost their value. By the year 817, the Abbasid Caliphs and succeeding Muslim rulers often were the sons of slave women, many of whom were foreign. Such parentage ceased to be either an obstacle or a stigma.

Growth of the Slave Trade

Quite possibly, the maintenance of slavery and the social acceptance of slaves were important drawing cards for Islam as it penetrated Africa. Without a knowledge of history, many Africans may be unaware of the fact that Islamic traders carried on a steady slave trade from East African ports for many centuries. Records are available which contain the lists of goods involved in trade with the rest of the world.

 

Muslim merchants traveled to India, Ceylon, the East Indies, and China, over sea and land, bringing back silks, spices, aromatics, woods, tin, and many other items. Records mention ‘slave girls’ from the Byzantine Empire along with gold and silver, marble workers, and eunuchs. Surprisingly, Muslim traders went as far away as Scandinavia, and especially Sweden, where scores of Muslim coins have been found with inscriptions from the seventh and eleventh centuries. On the long lists of goods which Muslim traders imported from Scandinavia, are found ‘Slavonic slaves, sheep, and cattle’ (cited by Lewis in The Arabs in History). An early ninth century geographer, Ibn Kurradadhbeh, describes Jewish merchants from the south of France ‘who speak Arabic, Persian, Greek, Frankish, Spanish, and Slavonic. They travel from west to east and east to west, by land and sea. From the west they bring eunuchs, slave girls and boys, brocade, beaver skins, sable and other furs, and swords’.

 

Though some slaves attained an honored class, doing either domestic work or military service, they were exceptions. ‘Generally, slaves were employed for manual labor on a number of large scale enterprises, in mines, in the fleets, in the drainage of marshes, etc.. They were herded together in settlements, often thousands belonging to a single landowner. Slaves of this kind were mainly black, obtained more especially from East Africa by capture, purchase, or in the form of tribute from vassal states. Such were the slaves in the salt flats east of Basra, where unprecedented numbers were employed by the wealthy men of that city in draining the salt marshes in order to prepare the ground for agriculture and to extract the salt for sale. They worked in gangs from five hundred to five thousand. Their conditions were extremely bad. Their labor was hard and exacting, and they received only a bare and inadequate keep consisting, according to the Arabic sources, of flour, semolina and dates. Many knew little or no Arabic. Eventually a leader arose among them and led a great uprising which aimed, not at ending slavery, but at securing better living conditions.

A Recent Study

Another book by Bernard Lewis entitled Race and Slavery in the Middle East: An Historical Enquiry, published in 1990 by Oxford University Press, features color plate illustrations dating back to 1237 and the 1500″s with 80 pages of notes to back up its contents. These intriguing paintings were discovered in famous libraries in London, Paris, and Istanbul. They depict the variety of slaves and their livelihoods.

 

In his book, Lewis describes how the Muslim world reacted when cries for abolition of slavery resounded around the world in the 19th century

‘The revulsion against slavery, which gave rise to a strong abolitionist movement in England, and later in other Western countries, began to affect the Islamic lands. What was involved was not, initially, the abolition of the institution of slavery but its alleviation, and in particular, the restriction and ultimately the elimination of the slave trade. Islamic law, in contrast to the ancient and colonial systems, accords the slave a certain legal status and assigns obligations as well as rights to the slave owner.

The manumission of slaves, though recommended as a meritorious act, is not required, and the institution of slavery not only is recognized but is elaborately regulated by Sharia law. Perhaps for this very reason the position of the domestic slave in Muslim society was in most respects better than in either classical antiquity or the nineteenth-century Americas. While, however, the life of the slave in Muslim society was no worse, and in some ways was better, than that of the free poor, the processes of acquisition and transportation often imposed appalling hardships. It was these which drew the main attention of European opponents of slavery, and it was to the elimination of this traffic, particularly in Africa, that their main efforts were directed.

 

The abolition of slavery itself would hardly have been possible. From a Muslim point of view, to forbid what God permits is almost as great an offense as to permit what God forbids — and slavery was authorized and regulated by the holy law. More specifically, it formed part of the law of personal status, the central core of social usage, which remained intact and effective even when other sections of the holy law, dealing with civil, criminal, and similar matters, were tactically or even openly modified and replaced by modern codes. It was from conservative religious quarters and notably from the holy cities of Mecca and Medina that the strongest resistance to the proposed reform came.

 

The emergence of the holy men and the holy places as the last ditch defenders of slavery against reform is only an apparent paradox. They were upholding an institution sanctified by scripture, law, and tradition and one which in their eyes was necessary to the maintenance of the social structure of Muslim life’.

Slaves of all colors and creeds – in accordance with Sharia

Further on, Lewis mentions how the overwhelming majority of white slaves came from the Caucasian lands. This was in the days of the Ottoman empire and it was not until 1854 that orders against the traffic in white slaves from Georgia and Circassia were issued and put into effect.

Arabia was another major center for the slave trade. The flow of slaves from Africa into Arabia and through the Gulf into Iran continued for a long time. The extension of British, French, and Italian control around the Horn of Africa (the area of Somalia and Kenya today) deprived the slave traders of their main ports of embarkation.

 

As far as Islam was concerned, the horrors of the abduction and transportation of slaves were the worst part. But once the slaves were settled in Islamic culture they had genuine opportunities to realize their potential. Many of them became merchants in Mecca, Jedda, and elsewhere.

A Puzzling Question

A puzzling question comes to mind, however. If this is so, why does the Arab world have no corresponding Black population as is found in the New World? Lewis provides an answer, ‘One reason is obviously the high population of eunuchs among Black males entering the Islamic lands. Another is the high death rate and low birth rate among Black slaves in North Africa and the Middle East. In about 1810, Louis Frank observed in Tunisia that most Black children died in infancy and that infinitesimally few reached the age of manhood. A British observer in Egypt, some thirty years later, found conditions even worse. He said, ‘I have heard it estimated that five or six years are sufficient to carry off a generation of slaves, at the end of which time the whole has to be replenished’.

The Abolition of Slavery

The institution of slavery regretably existed both in the old, classical Christian and Islamic civilizations. Yet it is tothe credit of Christianity that the abolition movement took root in Great Britain, Western Europe, and the United States and brought an end to this buying and selling of human beings.

 

The way in which slavery was practiced in Islamic countries had both bright and dark sides. What is regretable now is that this practice among Muslims is seldom openly discussed — as if slavery was exclusively a Western phenomenon. This deliberate silence enables Islamic propagandists in America to represent Muslims as liberators of the people of African origin, contrary to historical fact.

 

Original Post

This deliberate silence enables Islamic propagandists in America to represent Muslims as liberators of the people of African origin, contrary to historical fact.

 

This is what happens when people overly depend on Google as a replacement for sound scholarly inquiry.

 

The good news is that offline this type of nonsense is being challenged from various points of views including the U.S. Afrocentric circles where its been fashionable to be anti all things Islamic in name.

 

but by all means keep doing you....

 

 

Originally Posted by Kocolicious:

  My brotha fock you!  I am NOT here to impress your azz.  Stay in YOUR lane,. zone, world whatever the hell you wanna call it.  

And I will DEFINITELY stay in mine.   You don't run or rule me. Got that?  I'm a FREE woman...not a slave.

 

Oh I am quite in my lane.  While I mostly ignore this mess when I see it online, I am well within my right to challenge it or call BS on it. 

 

If you actually knew something about this subject and its author, the irony alone would have stopped you from posting it.  But as I stated, when you depend on Google searches to help you further your anti Islamic sentiment, you end up aiding the very thing you THINK your fighting against.

 

WHO are you?  Think I care what the hell you think? That would be a helllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll no.  You can TRY to undermine, minimize, dismiss whatever the hell you want.  I don't give a fock cuz you are NOTHING...ABSOLUTELY nothing to me.  I don't post anything no DIFFERENT than anyone else on this board including your azz .  Folks google, they research links and download them....just as I do.  So what the fock is your problem?  if I push your buttons cuz I post the TRUTH about slavery [or anything else], here;s a tip...don't READ my SHIT!!  You think I don't know WHY you're so uncomfortable with this information  I just posted?  Like I TELL everybody....the stuff I talk about AINT NO SECRET!!!  Any idiot can find it.  So whatcha trying to say my brotha?  How else am I going to post to your satisfaction?  Wait!  I'll answer that for you....I'm NOT!  You are a total fool if you think your OPINION, your so-called KNOWLEDGE intimidate me...cuz  you are soooooooooo wrong.  It doesn't...not in the least   cuz I have dealt with BIGGER fish than you...and looked them right in their faces and told them they are LIARS when it came to black history...and many of em were college professors...so you're small fish in that pool.  And my brotha lemme say this slowly so you won't get confused.....your vote [on this board and definitely in my life] DON'T COUNT.  You think it did?  Crazy. Plus! You said something to ME...I NEVER say anything to you even when I think you are wrong....SO let's keep it that way.  Don't say another word to me.  How about that?

  

And ONE mo' thang!  I am NOT anti-anything.  What I am is an advocate for anti-slavery freedom for ALL people. I don't believe in the caste system either and I DON'T believe  in the bible, the quran or the jewish talmud.  I see these books as SLAVE books cuz each owner was involved in slavery and needed a BOOK to justify the mistreatment of HUMAN BEINGS.  So if I'm anything my brotha?  That would be ANTI-RELIGIOUS!  Just so you know!

  I don;t have to offer anything when I post.  YOU don't MAKE the rules! Evidence?  Where's your EVIDENCE?  Nobody even ask for it when you post...so get the hell outta here. We're not in a classroom.  I 'm not doing a paper.   I DON'T have to do DAMN thang.  You don't,  What?  You think you better and you don't have to...cuz you're a man?  Ha! Now I know you're really CRAZY!!!!!

  As I was attempting to convey before I was RUDELY interrupted and distracted...African Americans in this country are NOT free fully until every African...anywhere is free.  Black women are not free until every female is safe from FGM[which is a slave method to control women's  natural desire for sex].  

 

We can talk until we are blue in the face-which is impossible-but slavery and FGM on the other side of the world will continue UNLESS we use our POWER as the nation-builders of America to PUT an end to this human cruelty. As the thread states, Africans were not the only slaves in history....but!  African descendants were the ONES to encourage the eradication of slavery in the Western Hemisphere.  Not the Slavs, or other eastern European groups or the Indians[India] or even Native Americans. It was black people in America who set the stage of FREEDOM.  But we are not done.  And as we can see talk is cheap....we must step it up cuz we are only a few thousands miles away from slavery being at our doorstep again.  It can happen.  And will happen if we do not TEACH our children the truth about slavery, their history and their place in this WORLD.  Nobody has a RIGHT to enslave another human being no matter WHAT is written to justify it.

 

We can continue to be brainwashed into thinking that our position in this country counts as millions of our distance brothers and sisters are on the battle not only for their lives but for their children's children lives.  And they are dying every day cuz their lives are NOT valued or seen as valid-they are viewed as subhumans or even worst...stock/chattel.

 

History shows that monsters benefits from slavery.  Today their off springs live a life of social acceptance, spiritual atone and status relevance and WEALTH...however at who's price?  We can turn away and say individually that "it is not my problem"  and go on with our lives in a box of ignorance and blocking out the noise in our heads with our eyes closed....but! Transparency of OUR truth is sooooooooooooooo important.  Until the late 50s, many black people didn't know ANYTHING about Africa except for the lies massa told them to discourage them from finding out for themselves the truth regarding slavery...from other points of view out of America.

 

But! Thank God for new technology cuz it's a new day. It's not Jim Crow and there are no laws to prevent blacks from researching slavery in all avenues of data resource[including college/local libraries].   And the information is out for ALL to see and it's important since the TRUTH about slavery in this country has been taken out of the schools.  My suggestion?  Be your OWN leader.  Think for yourself.  Do your own research.  Get familiar with the REAL truth not the bullshyte propaganda that has traditionally circulating..  No person....lemme repeat.....no person ON THIS EARTH has a natural right to enslave, capture, kidnap or forcibly take ANY human being for personal gain.  Many people think slavery is over.  It is not.  It's under a new guise.  Human trafficking....but!  It's STILL slavery and it's up to YOU to put your money where your mouth is cuz it is in fact a WAR against black people.  And the sooner one realize that, the quicker we can go about ERADICATING this monsterous act against human kind as soon as possible,  The question is.  Will you?  But!.  

 

Originally Posted by Kocolicious:

And ONE mo' thang!  I am NOT anti-anything.  What I am is an advocate for anti-slavery freedom for ALL people. I don't believe in the caste system either and I DON'T believe  in the bible, the quran or the jewish talmud.  I see these books as SLAVE books cuz each owner was involved in slavery and needed a BOOK to justify the mistreatment of HUMAN BEINGS.  So if I'm anything my brotha?  That would be ANTI-RELIGIOUS!  Just so you know!

Slavery is a social institution not a religious one.  Even half learned historians point out (often in vein) the very real difference between pre and post modern slavery.  To say that slavery is slavery is slavery and/or then equate chattel slavery (as experienced in the U.S) to any slave system because its a slave system is displays both an ignorance and disregard of the subject.

Is this a cover up?  American slavery was the worst but  however you slice it, Muslims were highly involved in the slave trade for hundreds of years. However you may rationalize it, the Arabic word for black folks is synonymous with “slave”. There’s a reason for that.

Slavery is a social institution not a religious one.  Even half learned historians point out (often in vein) the very real difference between pre and post modern slavery.  To say that slavery is slavery is slavery and/or then equate chattel slavery (as experienced in the U.S) to any slave system because its a slave system is displays both an ignorance and disregard of the subject

 

Didn't I tell you NOT to talk to me?

Originally Posted by Kocolicious:

Dag, Koko, who was you beefing with? I'm jealous!!

 

Mofo SPELL my name RIGHT!  If you wanna talk to me.  I ALWAYS spell your name right even when I am pissed at your azz!  So spell my name if you want me to respond....otherwise

Lighten up a little. Sheesh 

Brotha DK wrote:  Is this a cover up?

 

No cover up my brotha.

 

American slavery was the worst

 

My brotha how can you say American slavery may be the worse when slavery is still going on in Africa, Middle East and other areas in the eastern Hemisphere....and some places in America?  Truly you know that slavery for Africans started between 1500 and 2000 years ago.  And I'm estimating much longer than that.  Europeans didn't start buying slaves from the Arabs until the 15th century or so.  So how can American Slavery be worse when it's only about 500 years or so....and the Arab Slave Trade is at the very least 1500 years or so, a thousand years before massa and it's still going?  Just askin'

 

but  however you slice it, Muslims were highly involved in the slave trade for hundreds of years. However you may rationalize it, the Arabic word for black folks is synonymous with “slave”. There’s a reason for that!

 

Yep sho you're right it's a REASON for that.  You know my only wish in the world is for BLACK PEOPLE to wake up!  I'm finding out that we are the sleeping giants and don't even know it.  But!

Originally Posted by DennisKalita:

Is this a cover up?  American slavery was the worst but  however you slice it, Muslims were highly involved in the slave trade for hundreds of years. However you may rationalize it, the Arabic word for black folks is synonymous with “slave”. There’s a reason for that.

 

What are you basing this on?

 

Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:
Originally Posted by DennisKalita:

Is this a cover up?  American slavery was the worst but  however you slice it, Muslims were highly involved in the slave trade for hundreds of years. However you may rationalize it, the Arabic word for black folks is synonymous with “slave”. There’s a reason for that.

 

What are you basing this on?

 

This is based on Arabic. Many Africans have been brainwashed into abandoning their lively culture and taking on Islam and Arab cultur.e Many Arabs see Africans as inferior. Abids is an Arabic word for  black slaves and also black people in the Arabic language. It is the same word. How do you define this word? 

Live and learn:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Uzv5hURAXQ#t=24

Originally Posted by DennisKalita:
Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:
Originally Posted by DennisKalita:

Is this a cover up?  American slavery was the worst but  however you slice it, Muslims were highly involved in the slave trade for hundreds of years. However you may rationalize it, the Arabic word for black folks is synonymous with “slave”. There’s a reason for that.

 

What are you basing this on?

 

This is based on Arabic. Many Africans have been brainwashed into abandoning their lively culture and taking on Islam and Arab cultur.e Many Arabs see Africans as inferior. Abids is an Arabic word for  black slaves and also black people in the Arabic language. It is the same word. How do you define this word? 

Live and learn:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Uzv5hURAXQ#t=24

 

 

There's nothing here that either expounds on or substantiates that claim.  This is not a denial of the existence of slave systems, but as I stated earlier, slave systems are social institutions and are NOT the invention of religious text (in this case Islam).   

 

While I do honor and respect the work of Dr Clarke as well as Dr Chancellor Williams, there is a very serious issue regarding the lack of engagement of primary sources concerning the culture and identity of who and what is Arab. 

 

**This is where white supremacy becomes a more complex issue than ignorant white people yelling or chanting anti Black slogans**

 

The link to the document is a response that goes into some detail on the complexity of Arabic language regarding how and why Black people are identified.  The fact of the matter is that the anti Islamic narrative has been long advanced by missionaries and others who have no qualification to speak or discuss (from historical or cultural context) anything on Africana/Islamic matters past or present. 

 

 

http://www.drwesleymuhammad.co..._Final.336113349.pdf

 

 The error in assuming Arab is an automatic reference to white people is done by people intentionally and unintentionally.  Even Black scholars who have done so, have done so out an unqualified state (ie Chanellor Williams ethnography of Arabs as white was absolutely incorrect)

 

 

 

  The bottom line is the MOTHERLAND i.e. Africa has been RAPED, plundered and mutilated by the MONSTERS of mankind.  Don't need a qualified professional to tell ya that.  All you have to do is look in the eyes of these people today.  They are broken,  And no one is coming to help them get released from this sick human prison thousands of years old.  Call it whatever you want...but!  It doesn't STOP a thing from being a THING.  And that THING?  That monsterous thing?  Is still alive and well today.  No?

 

And it breaks my heart that black people don't see this. How can black people defend folks that literately DESTROYED and continues to DESTROY their continent?  Institutions are MAN-MADE...including religion, politics etc. But human beings?  Come from beyond what MAN can ever imagine...and that's why he lies lies lies and use VIOLENCE and FORCE to acquire control and power of those he feel is inferior to him.  But the problem with this argument?  No person is inferior to another...that perception?  Is MAN-MADE too.  And as we all know man got it twisted as why he can NEVER look in the mirror with a straight face cuz he KNOWS he has been WRONG, a bully and a destroyer of human life-for thousands of years.  So he has to make shit up to his satisfaction to be able to sleep at night.  Cuz despite his superior flexing?  He is still a human being-a mad delusional one at that...but!  A human being nevertheless.  As why this is such a human tragedy. .  But!

The bottom line is.......

 

 

Sadly this phrase is used all too often to justify not knowing what a person is talking about.  If we really are serious about Black/African history and what happened to us, then we owe it to ourselves and the world to be well informed and do our due diligence.

Originally Posted by Kocolicious:

  The bottom line is the MOTHERLAND i.e. Africa has been RAPED, plundered and mutilated by the MONSTERS of mankind.  Don't need a qualified professional to tell ya that.  All you have to do is look in the eyes of these people today.  They are broken,  And no one is coming to help them get released from this sick human prison thousands of years old.  Call it whatever you want...but!  It doesn't STOP a thing from being a THING.  And that THING?  That monsterous thing?  Is still alive and well today.  No?

 

And it breaks my heart that black people don't see this. How can black people defend folks that literately DESTROYED and continues to DESTROY their continent?  Institutions are MAN-MADE...including religion, politics etc. But human beings?  Come from beyond what MAN can ever imagine...and that's why he lies lies lies and use VIOLENCE and FORCE to acquire control and power of those he feel is inferior to him.  But the problem with this argument?  No person is inferior to another...that perception?  Is MAN-MADE too.  And as we all know man got it twisted as why he can NEVER look in the mirror with a straight face cuz he KNOWS he has been WRONG, a bully and a destroyer of human life-for thousands of years.  So he has to make shit up to his satisfaction to be able to sleep at night.  Cuz despite his superior flexing?  He is still a human being-a mad delusional one at that...but!  A human being nevertheless.  As why this is such a human tragedy. .  But!

RE: expounds on or substantiates that claim.

 

I  see. This style of  oppressor apologist argumentation must  be from the Nation. Skipping cult rhetoric and sophistry, let’s make that Arabs of whatever shade. 

 

I personally consider NOI teachings as spin. It is  a  viral story to counter the virus of lies and horrendous indoctrination that many suffer from.  It can be life changing but it isn’t real.

 

Take the story of Yakub which makes black people responsible for introducing evil into the world. The story goes that this was done through a 600 year experiment that resulted in creating the white devil. (Hey, thanks a lot, Yakub! What the hell were you thinking?!) If I ask you to expound and document in writing  the history and exact science that substantiates this story, can you produce hard science evidence?  That’s for an example. 

Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:
Originally Posted by DennisKalita:
Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:
Originally Posted by DennisKalita:

Is this a cover up?  American slavery was the worst but  however you slice it, Muslims were highly involved in the slave trade for hundreds of years. However you may rationalize it, the Arabic word for black folks is synonymous with “slave”. There’s a reason for that.

 

What are you basing this on?

 

This is based on Arabic. Many Africans have been brainwashed into abandoning their lively culture and taking on Islam and Arab cultur.e Many Arabs see Africans as inferior. Abids is an Arabic word for  black slaves and also black people in the Arabic language. It is the same word. How do you define this word? 

Live and learn:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Uzv5hURAXQ#t=24

 

 

There's nothing here that either expounds on or substantiates that claim.  This is not a denial of the existence of slave systems, but as I stated earlier, slave systems are social institutions and are NOT the invention of religious text (in this case Islam).   

 

While I do honor and respect the work of Dr Clarke as well as Dr Chancellor Williams, there is a very serious issue regarding the lack of engagement of primary sources concerning the culture and identity of who and what is Arab. 

 

**This is where white supremacy becomes a more complex issue than ignorant white people yelling or chanting anti Black slogans**

 

The link to the document is a response that goes into some detail on the complexity of Arabic language regarding how and why Black people are identified.  The fact of the matter is that the anti Islamic narrative has been long advanced by missionaries and others who have no qualification to speak or discuss (from historical or cultural context) anything on Africana/Islamic matters past or present. 

 

 

http://www.drwesleymuhammad.co..._Final.336113349.pdf

 

 The error in assuming Arab is an automatic reference to white people is done by people intentionally and unintentionally.  Even Black scholars who have done so, have done so out an unqualified state (ie Chanellor Williams ethnography of Arabs as white was absolutely incorrect)

 

 

 

RE: expounds on or substantiates that claim.

 

I  see. This style of  oppressor apologist argumentation must  be from the Nation. Skipping cult rhetoric and sophistry, let’s make that Arabs of whatever shade. 

 

I personally consider NOI teachings as spin. It is  a  viral story to counter the virus of lies and horrendous indoctrination that many suffer from.  It can be life changing but it isn’t real.

 

Take the story of Yakub which makes black people responsible for introducing evil into the world. The story goes that this was done through a 600 year experiment that resulted in creating the white devil. (Hey, thanks a lot, Yakub! What the hell were you thinking?!) If I ask you to expound and document in writing  the history and exact science that substantiates this story, can you produce hard science evidence?  That’s for an example. 

Originally Posted by DennisKalita:
Originally Posted by Kocolicious:
**Deleted for readability**

RE: expounds on or substantiates that claim.

 

I  see. This style of  oppressor apologist argumentation must  be from the Nation. Skipping cult rhetoric and sophistry, let’s make that Arabs of whatever shade. 

 

I personally consider NOI teachings as spin. It is  a  viral story to counter the virus of lies and horrendous indoctrination that many suffer from.  It can be life changing but it isn’t real.

 

Take the story of Yakub which makes black people responsible for introducing evil into the world. The story goes that this was done through a 600 year experiment that resulted in creating the white devil. (Hey, thanks a lot, Yakub! What the hell were you thinking?!) If I ask you to expound and document in writing  the history and exact science that substantiates this story, can you produce hard science evidence?  That’s for an example. 

It does no such thing and someone who celebrates Malcolm X should know that he tought quite a bit on this as did all NOI Ministers then and now. There's nothing in NOI theology that is a 'response teaching'.  Devil is a term that denotes how white people biologically relate to Black people and does not hinge on "evil treatment".

 

However that has nothing to do with any response that I've posted nor does it counter the need to correctly any understand a given situation and the circumstances surrounding it. 

 

The NOI did not "invent" the historical record....we check and cite from it, as scholars do.

 

The burden of proof is on those who are offering reasons why the actual facts of the situation are ignored.  Why are the narratives of missionaries (many of whom carry the white supremacist thinking) being given weight as evidence while actual cultural historians are completely ignored?

 

The answer is simple.  Black people have become lawyers for white supremacy in this regard but are too blinded by suspicion of all things Islamic to see it and be honest about it......though this is changing.

 

We (Muslims) do not run from history, we engage it in truth.  Those who are genuine  about this subject don't suddenly lose interest when they find out that the African conflicts (including the use of slave institutions) involving Muslims and non Muslims where not delineated by race. 

 

 

  This is what KILLS me all the time about so-called brothers.....they always wanna MAXIMIZE and JUSTIFY their perception[which is constantly in debate] while minimizing and dismissing others point of view on the same topic.  For me?  I don't give a damn.  All I know is I would NEVER as a free person willfully engage myself with any institution religion or no that subjugate and enslave other human beings for personal gain.  Now someone tell me[since we have all these smarty pants] HOW CAN THOSE WHO CLAIM THEY LOOOOOOOOOOOVE GOD SO MUCH and are soooooooooo LOYAL...do that?  Explain.     But!

Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:
Originally Posted by DennisKalita:
Originally Posted by Kocolicious:
**Deleted for readability**

RE: expounds on or substantiates that claim.

 

I  see. This style of  oppressor apologist argumentation must  be from the Nation. Skipping cult rhetoric and sophistry, let’s make that Arabs of whatever shade. 

 

I personally consider NOI teachings as spin. It is  a  viral story to counter the virus of lies and horrendous indoctrination that many suffer from.  It can be life changing but it isn’t real.

 

Take the story of Yakub which makes black people responsible for introducing evil into the world. The story goes that this was done through a 600 year experiment that resulted in creating the white devil. (Hey, thanks a lot, Yakub! What the hell were you thinking?!) If I ask you to expound and document in writing  the history and exact science that substantiates this story, can you produce hard science evidence?  That’s for an example. 

It does no such thing and someone who celebrates Malcolm X should know that he tought quite a bit on this as did all NOI Ministers then and now. There's nothing in NOI theology that is a 'response teaching'.  Devil is a term that denotes how white people biologically relate to Black people and does not hinge on "evil treatment".

 

However that has nothing to do with any response that I've posted nor does it counter the need to correctly any understand a given situation and the circumstances surrounding it. 

 

The NOI did not "invent" the historical record....we check and cite from it, as scholars do.

 

The burden of proof is on those who are offering reasons why the actual facts of the situation are ignored.  Why are the narratives of missionaries (many of whom carry the white supremacist thinking) being given weight as evidence while actual cultural historians are completely ignored?

 

The answer is simple.  Black people have become lawyers for white supremacy in this regard but are too blinded by suspicion of all things Islamic to see it and be honest about it......though this is changing.

 

We (Muslims) do not run from history, we engage it in truth.  Those who are genuine  about this subject don't suddenly lose interest when they find out that the African conflicts (including the use of slave institutions) involving Muslims and non Muslims where not delineated by race. 

 

 

I understand the party line. Another time maybe.

Originally Posted by Kocolicious:

  This is what KILLS me all the time about so-called brothers.....they always wanna MAXIMIZE and JUSTIFY their perception[which is constantly in debate] while minimizing and dismissing others point of view on the same topic.  For me?  I don't give a damn.  All I know is I would NEVER as a free person willfully engage myself with any institution religion or no that subjugate and enslave other human beings for personal gain.  Now someone tell me[since we have all these smarty pants] HOW CAN THOSE WHO CLAIM THEY LOOOOOOOOOOOVE GOD SO MUCH and are soooooooooo LOYAL...do that?  Explain.     But!

That's fine and understandable, but when dealing with history and present circumstances that extend well beyond what you see yourself doing....you still need to know what is going on.  Nothing is being minimized and nothing is being dismissed.  There is no justifiable ignorance when there's no shortage of people who discuss this with literally anyone who will listen.

 

I understand the party line. Another time maybe.

Since we're now talking about "party lines"....

let me make sure I understand you correctly.  Are you saying you understand that this subject by many informed accounts has more complexity about than previously represented (ie the party line) and as such you're going to respond at a later time?

 

Or are you suggesting the information provided should be dismissed as the "party line" response, to which you'll wait until a later time/thread where you can repeat claims without challenge?

Originally Posted by DennisKalita:
Originally Posted by Kocolicious:

  So what I'm getting from all this ridiculous talk is that Arabs did not enslave or sold Africans.  Right?  So if that's the case...the SKY is purple.  But!

Easy to blow a fuse when speaking with a true believer. 

 

There's really nothing difficult about this.  Just be honest what you know and what you don't know. 

 

You can type "Arab" all day long when the perception is that they're "white invaders".  When that game is going, its the most important thing that Black people need to know. The moment someone ask for an explicit definition of Arab and an identification of who where the participants in a given situation....suddenly details are not important. 

 

 

 

Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:
Originally Posted by Kocolicious:

  This is what KILLS me all the time about so-called brothers.....they always wanna MAXIMIZE and JUSTIFY their perception[which is constantly in debate] while minimizing and dismissing others point of view on the same topic.  For me?  I don't give a damn.  All I know is I would NEVER as a free person willfully engage myself with any institution religion or no that subjugate and enslave other human beings for personal gain.  Now someone tell me[since we have all these smarty pants] HOW CAN THOSE WHO CLAIM THEY LOOOOOOOOOOOVE GOD SO MUCH and are soooooooooo LOYAL...do that?  Explain.     But!

That's fine and understandable, but when dealing with history and present circumstances that extend well beyond what you see yourself doing....you still need to know what is going on.  Nothing is being minimized and nothing is being dismissed.  There is no justifiable ignorance when there's no shortage of people who discuss this with literally anyone who will listen.

 

I understand the party line. Another time maybe.

Since we're now talking about "party lines"....

let me make sure I understand you correctly.  Are you saying you understand that this subject by many informed accounts has more complexity about than previously represented (ie the party line) and as such you're going to respond at a later time?

 

Or are you suggesting the information provided should be dismissed as the "party line" response, to which you'll wait until a later time/thread where you can repeat claims without challenge?

Sure, you have the right to headache and quibble about the pan-ethnic ID of Arabs and make-believe  “facts” that they weren’t involved in the slave trade. Why lie about any oppressor for political reasons?  You have the right not to document the non-evidence about the supposed six century genetics project of inventing Caucasians by  Yakub. That’s make-believe.  You are flat wrong. Allah created  the races. Believe in Yakub and whatever you like. This is a crazy-making fantasy, IMHO. Yes, I know the party line “facts” in advance.  That’s why there’s no way I will  continue this in a later thread. No way.

Saingy farewell to the crazy-making mind and haters. Leaving off with a few  quotes from my journal:

 

“Be in this world as if you were a stranger or a wayfarer.”

― Muhammad

 

The strong person is not the good wrestler. Rather,the strong person is the one who controls himself when he is angry.

Sahih al-Bukhari

 

‘Abdul Rahman b. Abban used to buy slaves then he would order his servants to clothe them and then to present them before him. He would then say: “You are all free for the sake of Allah as I seek your assistance [i.e. the reward I receive from freeing you for the sake of Allah] when undergoing the anguish of death.”

 

“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.”

― Rumi

 

 “The wound is the place where the Light enters you.”

- Rumi

 

 “If you are irritated by every rub, how will your mirror be polished?”

― Rumi

 

“True Islam taught me that it takes all of the religious, political, economic, psychological, and racial ingredients, or characteristics, to make the Human Family and the Human Society complete.”

― Malcolm X

 

“None of you believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself.”

 The Translation of the Meanings of Sahih Al-Bukhari 

Originally Posted by DennisKalita:
Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:
Originally Posted by Kocolicious:

  This is what KILLS me all the time about so-called brothers.....they always wanna MAXIMIZE and JUSTIFY their perception[which is constantly in debate] while minimizing and dismissing others point of view on the same topic.  For me?  I don't give a damn.  All I know is I would NEVER as a free person willfully engage myself with any institution religion or no that subjugate and enslave other human beings for personal gain.  Now someone tell me[since we have all these smarty pants] HOW CAN THOSE WHO CLAIM THEY LOOOOOOOOOOOVE GOD SO MUCH and are soooooooooo LOYAL...do that?  Explain.     But!

That's fine and understandable, but when dealing with history and present circumstances that extend well beyond what you see yourself doing....you still need to know what is going on.  Nothing is being minimized and nothing is being dismissed.  There is no justifiable ignorance when there's no shortage of people who discuss this with literally anyone who will listen.

 

I understand the party line. Another time maybe.

Since we're now talking about "party lines"....

let me make sure I understand you correctly.  Are you saying you understand that this subject by many informed accounts has more complexity about than previously represented (ie the party line) and as such you're going to respond at a later time?

 

Or are you suggesting the information provided should be dismissed as the "party line" response, to which you'll wait until a later time/thread where you can repeat claims without challenge?

Sure, you have the right to headache and quibble about the pan-ethnic ID of Arabs and make-believe  “facts” that they weren’t involved in the slave trade. Why lie about any oppressor for political reasons?  You have the right not to document the non-evidence about the supposed six century genetics project of inventing Caucasians by  Yakub. That’s make-believe.  You are flat wrong. Allah created  the races. Believe in Yakub and whatever you like. This is a crazy-making fantasy, IMHO. Yes, I know the party line “facts” in advance.  That’s why there’s no way I will  continue this in a later thread. No way.

 

LOL!

 

All I asked is "what are you basing that on", to which you replied:

 

This is based on Arabic. Many Africans have been brainwashed into abandoning their lively culture and taking on Islam and Arab cultur.e Many Arabs see Africans as inferior. Abids is an Arabic word for  black slaves and also black people in the Arabic language.

Now when I post material that deals directly with language associated with color in Arabic that also addresses the ethnicity of Arab and how Arab culture understood it.....now its quibbling and "made up facts".

 

LOL

 

If you're not willing to deal with cultural phenomena that took place approx 1400+ years ago, are you now seriously trying to shift the subject to something that took place 6000+ years ago?  Really?

 

Same rules apply.  If you're going to bring it up and take a hard position on it, be ready to support your position

 

You can type "Arab" all day long when the perception is that they're "white invaders".  When that game is going, its the most important thing that Black people need to know. The moment someone ask for an explicit definition of Arab and an identification of who where the participants in a given situation....suddenly details are not important.

Is that not what has happen on AA.org yet again on this issue?

 

Stop acting like you want to discuss the game if you're not willing to get the players right.

 

 

DK wrote:  Easy to blow a fuse when speaking with a true believer

 

  You got that right....but!  This isn't MY first rodeo with this brotha.  He, like most men do, THINK his knowledge and perception is better than mine.   Therefore he's tries to aggressively but clandestinely dismiss what I say on the side while attempting to validate his point of view. As if I have the inability to think for myself.   But!  As I told him many many times....his VOTE don't count.  Unfortunately he's not listening.  But!.   

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