The Arab slave trade: 200 million non-Muslim slaves from all colors and nationalities

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
22 Votes

 


British with slave trader

British colonial official with Islamic slave traders in Zanzibar. On the far right is Hamad bin Mohamed bin Jumah bin Rajab bin Mohamed bin Said al-Murghabi, more commonly known as Tippu Tip. He was the most notorious Islamic slaver. al-Murghabi died in 1905.

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About ten years ago while traveling in Asia I found a very unusual book which I have unfortunately not been able to find in the West. I was casually reading it in the bookstore and regret that I never purchased it due to space and weight restrictions I already had in my luggage. It was a 900-year old Muslim ‘slave manual’ translated into English from the original Arabic. It was basically a very detailed purchasing manual, describing the cultural and ethnic traits of slaves from different parts of the world in non-Islamic countries. This should not be a surprise since the Quran supports slavery and enable Muslims to keep slaves even in the modern age (i.e Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Mauritania, United Arab Emirates, Qatar).

Under Islamic laws, slavery is explicitly permitted.[145] As Saudi Sheikh Saleh Al-Fawzan, a member of the Senior Council of Clerics had said in 2003, those who argue that slavery is abolished are “ignorant, not scholars. They are merely writers. Whoever says such things is an infidel.” [146] Muhammad himself was a slaver. He not only owned many male [147][148] and female [149] slaves, but he also sold, captured, and raped [150]  his slaves. Even his wives owned slaves.

 

The manual demonstrated that Arabs were engaged in enslaving all peoples, not only Africans. Their travels around the world was not as much for mercenary purposes as to catch slaves and loot wealth. The manual also gave indications that Arabs actually created the entire slave export trade in Africa. Bits and pieces from history indicate that Muslims enslaved over 150 million African people and at least 50 million from other parts of the world. They also converted Africans into Islam, causing a complete social and financial collapse of the entire African continent apart from wealth attributed to a few regional African kings who became wealthy on the trade and encouraged it. This is a claim that is not well presented in Western information or education on slavery.  You can find a lot of very interesting and original historical materials in Asia and the East which have never found its way to the West.

 

The manual was written by an Arab slave trader describing some of the history of Arabian slavery. It contained character descriptions of slaves from all across West to East Europe, Africa, India, the Orient, Turkey (which proves that Turkey was not originally Islamic) and so on. It also showed that Arabs enslaved Indian people long before moghuls invaded the country. The most despised slaves according to the manual, was Indian and African slaves who were described in the most terrible terms. And the favorite slaves were Turkish slaves, and the second favorites were North European slaves. Slavery was not only black history; slavery was Islamic history around the world. More historical findings is pointing that over 150 million African slaves being traded by Arabs over a period of 14 centuries, and at least 50 million slaves of other ethnicities.

 

Muslim Slavery In The Modern Age: Real Life Stories
Francis Bok tells his story as a 20th century slave to Muslims in Sudan, captured as a child slave under Islamic sharia:

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Another escaped slave, Simon Deng, sold to a Muslim for the equivalent of $10, tells his story as a 20th century slave in the modern age where slavery continues to exist and be legalized under Islamic Sharia law. Simon Deng warns blacks in America not to be lured into Islam here blacks are still viewed as slave goods and merely used as soldiers to better Islamic agenda. Over 3.5 million people have been slaughtered by Muslims in Sudan.

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A.  Arabs and Slave Trade

By Shirley Madany

A flair for history is a prerequisite to understanding the Muslim world and its people. Their yesterdays are closely bound up with the here and now. A good grasp of geography will be helpful as well.

Slavery in Early Islamic History

It was intriguing to note in Bernard Lewis’ book, The Arabs in History, that paper was made first in China in the year 105 B.C. In A.D. 751, the Arabs defeated a Chinese contingent east of the ‘Jaxartes’. (Jaxartes is a river that lies on the border between China and present-day Afghanistan. Persian King Cyrus was killed fighting near this river, about 500 B.C.) The Arabs found some Chinese paper makers among their prisoners. Many such skills were brought into the Islamic world in this way. The use of paper spread rapidly across the Islamic world, reaching Egypt by A.D. 800 and Spain by the year 900. From the tenth century onwards, evidence is clear of paper-making occurring in countries of the Middle East and North Africa, as well as in the European country of Spain.

 

The Arabs profited from the craft of the paper makers they had captured as slaves. From archaeologists and records kept in ancient times, we learn that slave trade existed for a long time in the Arab world. Back in the days of the caliphs [early Muslim leaders], having a slave for a mother was not a stigma for a Muslim man. Due to polygamy, this was quite common.

At first the caliphs maintained a kind of aristocracy among themselves, making it imperative that the mother of a caliph was from one of the Arab tribes. However, as more and more slaves adopted the religion of Islam, noble birth and tribal prestige lost their value. By the year 817, the Abbasid Caliphs and succeeding Muslim rulers often were the sons of slave women, many of whom were foreign. Such parentage ceased to be either an obstacle or a stigma.

Growth of the Slave Trade

Quite possibly, the maintenance of slavery and the social acceptance of slaves were important drawing cards for Islam as it penetrated Africa. Without a knowledge of history, many Africans may be unaware of the fact that Islamic traders carried on a steady slave trade from East African ports for many centuries. Records are available which contain the lists of goods involved in trade with the rest of the world.

 

Muslim merchants traveled to India, Ceylon, the East Indies, and China, over sea and land, bringing back silks, spices, aromatics, woods, tin, and many other items. Records mention ‘slave girls’ from the Byzantine Empire along with gold and silver, marble workers, and eunuchs. Surprisingly, Muslim traders went as far away as Scandinavia, and especially Sweden, where scores of Muslim coins have been found with inscriptions from the seventh and eleventh centuries. On the long lists of goods which Muslim traders imported from Scandinavia, are found ‘Slavonic slaves, sheep, and cattle’ (cited by Lewis in The Arabs in History). An early ninth century geographer, Ibn Kurradadhbeh, describes Jewish merchants from the south of France ‘who speak Arabic, Persian, Greek, Frankish, Spanish, and Slavonic. They travel from west to east and east to west, by land and sea. From the west they bring eunuchs, slave girls and boys, brocade, beaver skins, sable and other furs, and swords’.

 

Though some slaves attained an honored class, doing either domestic work or military service, they were exceptions. ‘Generally, slaves were employed for manual labor on a number of large scale enterprises, in mines, in the fleets, in the drainage of marshes, etc.. They were herded together in settlements, often thousands belonging to a single landowner. Slaves of this kind were mainly black, obtained more especially from East Africa by capture, purchase, or in the form of tribute from vassal states. Such were the slaves in the salt flats east of Basra, where unprecedented numbers were employed by the wealthy men of that city in draining the salt marshes in order to prepare the ground for agriculture and to extract the salt for sale. They worked in gangs from five hundred to five thousand. Their conditions were extremely bad. Their labor was hard and exacting, and they received only a bare and inadequate keep consisting, according to the Arabic sources, of flour, semolina and dates. Many knew little or no Arabic. Eventually a leader arose among them and led a great uprising which aimed, not at ending slavery, but at securing better living conditions.

A Recent Study

Another book by Bernard Lewis entitled Race and Slavery in the Middle East: An Historical Enquiry, published in 1990 by Oxford University Press, features color plate illustrations dating back to 1237 and the 1500″s with 80 pages of notes to back up its contents. These intriguing paintings were discovered in famous libraries in London, Paris, and Istanbul. They depict the variety of slaves and their livelihoods.

 

In his book, Lewis describes how the Muslim world reacted when cries for abolition of slavery resounded around the world in the 19th century

‘The revulsion against slavery, which gave rise to a strong abolitionist movement in England, and later in other Western countries, began to affect the Islamic lands. What was involved was not, initially, the abolition of the institution of slavery but its alleviation, and in particular, the restriction and ultimately the elimination of the slave trade. Islamic law, in contrast to the ancient and colonial systems, accords the slave a certain legal status and assigns obligations as well as rights to the slave owner.

The manumission of slaves, though recommended as a meritorious act, is not required, and the institution of slavery not only is recognized but is elaborately regulated by Sharia law. Perhaps for this very reason the position of the domestic slave in Muslim society was in most respects better than in either classical antiquity or the nineteenth-century Americas. While, however, the life of the slave in Muslim society was no worse, and in some ways was better, than that of the free poor, the processes of acquisition and transportation often imposed appalling hardships. It was these which drew the main attention of European opponents of slavery, and it was to the elimination of this traffic, particularly in Africa, that their main efforts were directed.

 

The abolition of slavery itself would hardly have been possible. From a Muslim point of view, to forbid what God permits is almost as great an offense as to permit what God forbids — and slavery was authorized and regulated by the holy law. More specifically, it formed part of the law of personal status, the central core of social usage, which remained intact and effective even when other sections of the holy law, dealing with civil, criminal, and similar matters, were tactically or even openly modified and replaced by modern codes. It was from conservative religious quarters and notably from the holy cities of Mecca and Medina that the strongest resistance to the proposed reform came.

 

The emergence of the holy men and the holy places as the last ditch defenders of slavery against reform is only an apparent paradox. They were upholding an institution sanctified by scripture, law, and tradition and one which in their eyes was necessary to the maintenance of the social structure of Muslim life’.

Slaves of all colors and creeds – in accordance with Sharia

Further on, Lewis mentions how the overwhelming majority of white slaves came from the Caucasian lands. This was in the days of the Ottoman empire and it was not until 1854 that orders against the traffic in white slaves from Georgia and Circassia were issued and put into effect.

Arabia was another major center for the slave trade. The flow of slaves from Africa into Arabia and through the Gulf into Iran continued for a long time. The extension of British, French, and Italian control around the Horn of Africa (the area of Somalia and Kenya today) deprived the slave traders of their main ports of embarkation.

 

As far as Islam was concerned, the horrors of the abduction and transportation of slaves were the worst part. But once the slaves were settled in Islamic culture they had genuine opportunities to realize their potential. Many of them became merchants in Mecca, Jedda, and elsewhere.

A Puzzling Question

A puzzling question comes to mind, however. If this is so, why does the Arab world have no corresponding Black population as is found in the New World? Lewis provides an answer, ‘One reason is obviously the high population of eunuchs among Black males entering the Islamic lands. Another is the high death rate and low birth rate among Black slaves in North Africa and the Middle East. In about 1810, Louis Frank observed in Tunisia that most Black children died in infancy and that infinitesimally few reached the age of manhood. A British observer in Egypt, some thirty years later, found conditions even worse. He said, ‘I have heard it estimated that five or six years are sufficient to carry off a generation of slaves, at the end of which time the whole has to be replenished’.

The Abolition of Slavery

The institution of slavery regretably existed both in the old, classical Christian and Islamic civilizations. Yet it is tothe credit of Christianity that the abolition movement took root in Great Britain, Western Europe, and the United States and brought an end to this buying and selling of human beings.

 

The way in which slavery was practiced in Islamic countries had both bright and dark sides. What is regretable now is that this practice among Muslims is seldom openly discussed — as if slavery was exclusively a Western phenomenon. This deliberate silence enables Islamic propagandists in America to represent Muslims as liberators of the people of African origin, contrary to historical fact.

 

Original Post

This deliberate silence enables Islamic propagandists in America to represent Muslims as liberators of the people of African origin, contrary to historical fact.

 

This is what happens when people overly depend on Google as a replacement for sound scholarly inquiry.

 

The good news is that offline this type of nonsense is being challenged from various points of views including the U.S. Afrocentric circles where its been fashionable to be anti all things Islamic in name.

 

but by all means keep doing you....

 

 

  My brotha fock you!  I am NOT here to impress your azz.  Stay in YOUR lane,. zone, world whatever the hell you wanna call it.  And I will DEFINITELY stay in mine.   You don't run or rule me. Got that?  I'm a FREE woman...not a slave.

Last edited by Kocolicious

And by the way.....I NEVER say anything to your azz for a REASON.  Please do the same. And to be very CLEAR and concise....there's nothing...not a damn THANG about your convo on this board I wanna engage in.  So don't get it twisted..   

Last edited by Kocolicious
Originally Posted by Kocolicious:

  My brotha fock you!  I am NOT here to impress your azz.  Stay in YOUR lane,. zone, world whatever the hell you wanna call it.  

And I will DEFINITELY stay in mine.   You don't run or rule me. Got that?  I'm a FREE woman...not a slave.

 

Oh I am quite in my lane.  While I mostly ignore this mess when I see it online, I am well within my right to challenge it or call BS on it. 

 

If you actually knew something about this subject and its author, the irony alone would have stopped you from posting it.  But as I stated, when you depend on Google searches to help you further your anti Islamic sentiment, you end up aiding the very thing you THINK your fighting against.

 

Last edited by Muhammad Cipher

WHO are you?  Think I care what the hell you think? That would be a helllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll no.  You can TRY to undermine, minimize, dismiss whatever the hell you want.  I don't give a fock cuz you are NOTHING...ABSOLUTELY nothing to me.  I don't post anything no DIFFERENT than anyone else on this board including your azz .  Folks google, they research links and download them....just as I do.  So what the fock is your problem?  if I push your buttons cuz I post the TRUTH about slavery [or anything else], here;s a tip...don't READ my SHIT!!  You think I don't know WHY you're so uncomfortable with this information  I just posted?  Like I TELL everybody....the stuff I talk about AINT NO SECRET!!!  Any idiot can find it.  So whatcha trying to say my brotha?  How else am I going to post to your satisfaction?  Wait!  I'll answer that for you....I'm NOT!  You are a total fool if you think your OPINION, your so-called KNOWLEDGE intimidate me...cuz  you are soooooooooo wrong.  It doesn't...not in the least   cuz I have dealt with BIGGER fish than you...and looked them right in their faces and told them they are LIARS when it came to black history...and many of em were college professors...so you're small fish in that pool.  And my brotha lemme say this slowly so you won't get confused.....your vote [on this board and definitely in my life] DON'T COUNT.  You think it did?  Crazy. Plus! You said something to ME...I NEVER say anything to you even when I think you are wrong....SO let's keep it that way.  Don't say another word to me.  How about that?

  

Last edited by Kocolicious

.....or you could actually reinforce your position by offering evidence that supports either the article or your reasoning for posting it.

 

 

And ONE mo' thang!  I am NOT anti-anything.  What I am is an advocate for anti-slavery freedom for ALL people. I don't believe in the caste system either and I DON'T believe  in the bible, the quran or the jewish talmud.  I see these books as SLAVE books cuz each owner was involved in slavery and needed a BOOK to justify the mistreatment of HUMAN BEINGS.  So if I'm anything my brotha?  That would be ANTI-RELIGIOUS!  Just so you know!

  I don;t have to offer anything when I post.  YOU don't MAKE the rules! Evidence?  Where's your EVIDENCE?  Nobody even ask for it when you post...so get the hell outta here. We're not in a classroom.  I 'm not doing a paper.   I DON'T have to do DAMN thang.  You don't,  What?  You think you better and you don't have to...cuz you're a man?  Ha! Now I know you're really CRAZY!!!!!

Last edited by Kocolicious

  As I was attempting to convey before I was RUDELY interrupted and distracted...African Americans in this country are NOT free fully until every African...anywhere is free.  Black women are not free until every female is safe from FGM[which is a slave method to control women's  natural desire for sex].  

 

We can talk until we are blue in the face-which is impossible-but slavery and FGM on the other side of the world will continue UNLESS we use our POWER as the nation-builders of America to PUT an end to this human cruelty. As the thread states, Africans were not the only slaves in history....but!  African descendants were the ONES to encourage the eradication of slavery in the Western Hemisphere.  Not the Slavs, or other eastern European groups or the Indians[India] or even Native Americans. It was black people in America who set the stage of FREEDOM.  But we are not done.  And as we can see talk is cheap....we must step it up cuz we are only a few thousands miles away from slavery being at our doorstep again.  It can happen.  And will happen if we do not TEACH our children the truth about slavery, their history and their place in this WORLD.  Nobody has a RIGHT to enslave another human being no matter WHAT is written to justify it.

 

We can continue to be brainwashed into thinking that our position in this country counts as millions of our distance brothers and sisters are on the battle not only for their lives but for their children's children lives.  And they are dying every day cuz their lives are NOT valued or seen as valid-they are viewed as subhumans or even worst...stock/chattel.

 

History shows that monsters benefits from slavery.  Today their off springs live a life of social acceptance, spiritual atone and status relevance and WEALTH...however at who's price?  We can turn away and say individually that "it is not my problem"  and go on with our lives in a box of ignorance and blocking out the noise in our heads with our eyes closed....but! Transparency of OUR truth is sooooooooooooooo important.  Until the late 50s, many black people didn't know ANYTHING about Africa except for the lies massa told them to discourage them from finding out for themselves the truth regarding slavery...from other points of view out of America.

 

But! Thank God for new technology cuz it's a new day. It's not Jim Crow and there are no laws to prevent blacks from researching slavery in all avenues of data resource[including college/local libraries].   And the information is out for ALL to see and it's important since the TRUTH about slavery in this country has been taken out of the schools.  My suggestion?  Be your OWN leader.  Think for yourself.  Do your own research.  Get familiar with the REAL truth not the bullshyte propaganda that has traditionally circulating..  No person....lemme repeat.....no person ON THIS EARTH has a natural right to enslave, capture, kidnap or forcibly take ANY human being for personal gain.  Many people think slavery is over.  It is not.  It's under a new guise.  Human trafficking....but!  It's STILL slavery and it's up to YOU to put your money where your mouth is cuz it is in fact a WAR against black people.  And the sooner one realize that, the quicker we can go about ERADICATING this monsterous act against human kind as soon as possible,  The question is.  Will you?  But!.  

 

Last edited by Kocolicious
Originally Posted by Kocolicious:

And ONE mo' thang!  I am NOT anti-anything.  What I am is an advocate for anti-slavery freedom for ALL people. I don't believe in the caste system either and I DON'T believe  in the bible, the quran or the jewish talmud.  I see these books as SLAVE books cuz each owner was involved in slavery and needed a BOOK to justify the mistreatment of HUMAN BEINGS.  So if I'm anything my brotha?  That would be ANTI-RELIGIOUS!  Just so you know!

Slavery is a social institution not a religious one.  Even half learned historians point out (often in vein) the very real difference between pre and post modern slavery.  To say that slavery is slavery is slavery and/or then equate chattel slavery (as experienced in the U.S) to any slave system because its a slave system is displays both an ignorance and disregard of the subject.

Is this a cover up?  American slavery was the worst but  however you slice it, Muslims were highly involved in the slave trade for hundreds of years. However you may rationalize it, the Arabic word for black folks is synonymous with “slave”. There’s a reason for that.

Dag, Koko, who was you beefing with? I'm jealous!!

 

Mofo SPELL my name RIGHT!  If you wanna talk to me.  I ALWAYS spell your name right even when I am pissed at your azz!  So spell my name if you want me to respond....otherwise

Slavery is a social institution not a religious one.  Even half learned historians point out (often in vein) the very real difference between pre and post modern slavery.  To say that slavery is slavery is slavery and/or then equate chattel slavery (as experienced in the U.S) to any slave system because its a slave system is displays both an ignorance and disregard of the subject

 

Didn't I tell you NOT to talk to me?

Originally Posted by Kocolicious:

Dag, Koko, who was you beefing with? I'm jealous!!

 

Mofo SPELL my name RIGHT!  If you wanna talk to me.  I ALWAYS spell your name right even when I am pissed at your azz!  So spell my name if you want me to respond....otherwise

Lighten up a little. Sheesh 

Brotha DK wrote:  Is this a cover up?

 

No cover up my brotha.

 

American slavery was the worst

 

My brotha how can you say American slavery may be the worse when slavery is still going on in Africa, Middle East and other areas in the eastern Hemisphere....and some places in America?  Truly you know that slavery for Africans started between 1500 and 2000 years ago.  And I'm estimating much longer than that.  Europeans didn't start buying slaves from the Arabs until the 15th century or so.  So how can American Slavery be worse when it's only about 500 years or so....and the Arab Slave Trade is at the very least 1500 years or so, a thousand years before massa and it's still going?  Just askin'

 

but  however you slice it, Muslims were highly involved in the slave trade for hundreds of years. However you may rationalize it, the Arabic word for black folks is synonymous with “slave”. There’s a reason for that!

 

Yep sho you're right it's a REASON for that.  You know my only wish in the world is for BLACK PEOPLE to wake up!  I'm finding out that we are the sleeping giants and don't even know it.  But!

Last edited by Kocolicious
Originally Posted by DennisKalita:

Is this a cover up?  American slavery was the worst but  however you slice it, Muslims were highly involved in the slave trade for hundreds of years. However you may rationalize it, the Arabic word for black folks is synonymous with “slave”. There’s a reason for that.

 

What are you basing this on?

 

Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:
Originally Posted by DennisKalita:

Is this a cover up?  American slavery was the worst but  however you slice it, Muslims were highly involved in the slave trade for hundreds of years. However you may rationalize it, the Arabic word for black folks is synonymous with “slave”. There’s a reason for that.

 

What are you basing this on?

 

This is based on Arabic. Many Africans have been brainwashed into abandoning their lively culture and taking on Islam and Arab cultur.e Many Arabs see Africans as inferior. Abids is an Arabic word for  black slaves and also black people in the Arabic language. It is the same word. How do you define this word? 

Live and learn:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Uzv5hURAXQ#t=24

Originally Posted by DennisKalita:
Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:
Originally Posted by DennisKalita:

Is this a cover up?  American slavery was the worst but  however you slice it, Muslims were highly involved in the slave trade for hundreds of years. However you may rationalize it, the Arabic word for black folks is synonymous with “slave”. There’s a reason for that.

 

What are you basing this on?

 

This is based on Arabic. Many Africans have been brainwashed into abandoning their lively culture and taking on Islam and Arab cultur.e Many Arabs see Africans as inferior. Abids is an Arabic word for  black slaves and also black people in the Arabic language. It is the same word. How do you define this word? 

Live and learn:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Uzv5hURAXQ#t=24

 

 

There's nothing here that either expounds on or substantiates that claim.  This is not a denial of the existence of slave systems, but as I stated earlier, slave systems are social institutions and are NOT the invention of religious text (in this case Islam).   

 

While I do honor and respect the work of Dr Clarke as well as Dr Chancellor Williams, there is a very serious issue regarding the lack of engagement of primary sources concerning the culture and identity of who and what is Arab. 

 

**This is where white supremacy becomes a more complex issue than ignorant white people yelling or chanting anti Black slogans**

 

The link to the document is a response that goes into some detail on the complexity of Arabic language regarding how and why Black people are identified.  The fact of the matter is that the anti Islamic narrative has been long advanced by missionaries and others who have no qualification to speak or discuss (from historical or cultural context) anything on Africana/Islamic matters past or present. 

 

 

http://www.drwesleymuhammad.co..._Final.336113349.pdf

 

 The error in assuming Arab is an automatic reference to white people is done by people intentionally and unintentionally.  Even Black scholars who have done so, have done so out an unqualified state (ie Chanellor Williams ethnography of Arabs as white was absolutely incorrect)

 

 

 

Last edited by Muhammad Cipher

  The bottom line is the MOTHERLAND i.e. Africa has been RAPED, plundered and mutilated by the MONSTERS of mankind.  Don't need a qualified professional to tell ya that.  All you have to do is look in the eyes of these people today.  They are broken,  And no one is coming to help them get released from this sick human prison thousands of years old.  Call it whatever you want...but!  It doesn't STOP a thing from being a THING.  And that THING?  That monsterous thing?  Is still alive and well today.  No?

 

And it breaks my heart that black people don't see this. How can black people defend folks that literately DESTROYED and continues to DESTROY their continent?  Institutions are MAN-MADE...including religion, politics etc. But human beings?  Come from beyond what MAN can ever imagine...and that's why he lies lies lies and use VIOLENCE and FORCE to acquire control and power of those he feel is inferior to him.  But the problem with this argument?  No person is inferior to another...that perception?  Is MAN-MADE too.  And as we all know man got it twisted as why he can NEVER look in the mirror with a straight face cuz he KNOWS he has been WRONG, a bully and a destroyer of human life-for thousands of years.  So he has to make shit up to his satisfaction to be able to sleep at night.  Cuz despite his superior flexing?  He is still a human being-a mad delusional one at that...but!  A human being nevertheless.  As why this is such a human tragedy. .  But!

The bottom line is.......

 

 

Sadly this phrase is used all too often to justify not knowing what a person is talking about.  If we really are serious about Black/African history and what happened to us, then we owe it to ourselves and the world to be well informed and do our due diligence.

Originally Posted by Kocolicious:

  The bottom line is the MOTHERLAND i.e. Africa has been RAPED, plundered and mutilated by the MONSTERS of mankind.  Don't need a qualified professional to tell ya that.  All you have to do is look in the eyes of these people today.  They are broken,  And no one is coming to help them get released from this sick human prison thousands of years old.  Call it whatever you want...but!  It doesn't STOP a thing from being a THING.  And that THING?  That monsterous thing?  Is still alive and well today.  No?

 

And it breaks my heart that black people don't see this. How can black people defend folks that literately DESTROYED and continues to DESTROY their continent?  Institutions are MAN-MADE...including religion, politics etc. But human beings?  Come from beyond what MAN can ever imagine...and that's why he lies lies lies and use VIOLENCE and FORCE to acquire control and power of those he feel is inferior to him.  But the problem with this argument?  No person is inferior to another...that perception?  Is MAN-MADE too.  And as we all know man got it twisted as why he can NEVER look in the mirror with a straight face cuz he KNOWS he has been WRONG, a bully and a destroyer of human life-for thousands of years.  So he has to make shit up to his satisfaction to be able to sleep at night.  Cuz despite his superior flexing?  He is still a human being-a mad delusional one at that...but!  A human being nevertheless.  As why this is such a human tragedy. .  But!

RE: expounds on or substantiates that claim.

 

I  see. This style of  oppressor apologist argumentation must  be from the Nation. Skipping cult rhetoric and sophistry, let’s make that Arabs of whatever shade. 

 

I personally consider NOI teachings as spin. It is  a  viral story to counter the virus of lies and horrendous indoctrination that many suffer from.  It can be life changing but it isn’t real.

 

Take the story of Yakub which makes black people responsible for introducing evil into the world. The story goes that this was done through a 600 year experiment that resulted in creating the white devil. (Hey, thanks a lot, Yakub! What the hell were you thinking?!) If I ask you to expound and document in writing  the history and exact science that substantiates this story, can you produce hard science evidence?  That’s for an example. 

Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:
Originally Posted by DennisKalita:
Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:
Originally Posted by DennisKalita:

Is this a cover up?  American slavery was the worst but  however you slice it, Muslims were highly involved in the slave trade for hundreds of years. However you may rationalize it, the Arabic word for black folks is synonymous with “slave”. There’s a reason for that.

 

What are you basing this on?

 

This is based on Arabic. Many Africans have been brainwashed into abandoning their lively culture and taking on Islam and Arab cultur.e Many Arabs see Africans as inferior. Abids is an Arabic word for  black slaves and also black people in the Arabic language. It is the same word. How do you define this word? 

Live and learn:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Uzv5hURAXQ#t=24

 

 

There's nothing here that either expounds on or substantiates that claim.  This is not a denial of the existence of slave systems, but as I stated earlier, slave systems are social institutions and are NOT the invention of religious text (in this case Islam).   

 

While I do honor and respect the work of Dr Clarke as well as Dr Chancellor Williams, there is a very serious issue regarding the lack of engagement of primary sources concerning the culture and identity of who and what is Arab. 

 

**This is where white supremacy becomes a more complex issue than ignorant white people yelling or chanting anti Black slogans**

 

The link to the document is a response that goes into some detail on the complexity of Arabic language regarding how and why Black people are identified.  The fact of the matter is that the anti Islamic narrative has been long advanced by missionaries and others who have no qualification to speak or discuss (from historical or cultural context) anything on Africana/Islamic matters past or present. 

 

 

http://www.drwesleymuhammad.co..._Final.336113349.pdf

 

 The error in assuming Arab is an automatic reference to white people is done by people intentionally and unintentionally.  Even Black scholars who have done so, have done so out an unqualified state (ie Chanellor Williams ethnography of Arabs as white was absolutely incorrect)

 

 

 

RE: expounds on or substantiates that claim.

 

I  see. This style of  oppressor apologist argumentation must  be from the Nation. Skipping cult rhetoric and sophistry, let’s make that Arabs of whatever shade. 

 

I personally consider NOI teachings as spin. It is  a  viral story to counter the virus of lies and horrendous indoctrination that many suffer from.  It can be life changing but it isn’t real.

 

Take the story of Yakub which makes black people responsible for introducing evil into the world. The story goes that this was done through a 600 year experiment that resulted in creating the white devil. (Hey, thanks a lot, Yakub! What the hell were you thinking?!) If I ask you to expound and document in writing  the history and exact science that substantiates this story, can you produce hard science evidence?  That’s for an example. 

Originally Posted by DennisKalita:
Originally Posted by Kocolicious:
**Deleted for readability**

RE: expounds on or substantiates that claim.

 

I  see. This style of  oppressor apologist argumentation must  be from the Nation. Skipping cult rhetoric and sophistry, let’s make that Arabs of whatever shade. 

 

I personally consider NOI teachings as spin. It is  a  viral story to counter the virus of lies and horrendous indoctrination that many suffer from.  It can be life changing but it isn’t real.

 

Take the story of Yakub which makes black people responsible for introducing evil into the world. The story goes that this was done through a 600 year experiment that resulted in creating the white devil. (Hey, thanks a lot, Yakub! What the hell were you thinking?!) If I ask you to expound and document in writing  the history and exact science that substantiates this story, can you produce hard science evidence?  That’s for an example. 

It does no such thing and someone who celebrates Malcolm X should know that he tought quite a bit on this as did all NOI Ministers then and now. There's nothing in NOI theology that is a 'response teaching'.  Devil is a term that denotes how white people biologically relate to Black people and does not hinge on "evil treatment".

 

However that has nothing to do with any response that I've posted nor does it counter the need to correctly any understand a given situation and the circumstances surrounding it. 

 

The NOI did not "invent" the historical record....we check and cite from it, as scholars do.

 

The burden of proof is on those who are offering reasons why the actual facts of the situation are ignored.  Why are the narratives of missionaries (many of whom carry the white supremacist thinking) being given weight as evidence while actual cultural historians are completely ignored?

 

The answer is simple.  Black people have become lawyers for white supremacy in this regard but are too blinded by suspicion of all things Islamic to see it and be honest about it......though this is changing.

 

We (Muslims) do not run from history, we engage it in truth.  Those who are genuine  about this subject don't suddenly lose interest when they find out that the African conflicts (including the use of slave institutions) involving Muslims and non Muslims where not delineated by race. 

 

 

Last edited by Muhammad Cipher

  This is what KILLS me all the time about so-called brothers.....they always wanna MAXIMIZE and JUSTIFY their perception[which is constantly in debate] while minimizing and dismissing others point of view on the same topic.  For me?  I don't give a damn.  All I know is I would NEVER as a free person willfully engage myself with any institution religion or no that subjugate and enslave other human beings for personal gain.  Now someone tell me[since we have all these smarty pants] HOW CAN THOSE WHO CLAIM THEY LOOOOOOOOOOOVE GOD SO MUCH and are soooooooooo LOYAL...do that?  Explain.     But!

  So what I'm getting from all this ridiculous talk is that Arabs did not enslave or sold Africans.  Right?  So if that's the case...the SKY is purple.  But!

Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:
Originally Posted by DennisKalita:
Originally Posted by Kocolicious:
**Deleted for readability**

RE: expounds on or substantiates that claim.

 

I  see. This style of  oppressor apologist argumentation must  be from the Nation. Skipping cult rhetoric and sophistry, let’s make that Arabs of whatever shade. 

 

I personally consider NOI teachings as spin. It is  a  viral story to counter the virus of lies and horrendous indoctrination that many suffer from.  It can be life changing but it isn’t real.

 

Take the story of Yakub which makes black people responsible for introducing evil into the world. The story goes that this was done through a 600 year experiment that resulted in creating the white devil. (Hey, thanks a lot, Yakub! What the hell were you thinking?!) If I ask you to expound and document in writing  the history and exact science that substantiates this story, can you produce hard science evidence?  That’s for an example. 

It does no such thing and someone who celebrates Malcolm X should know that he tought quite a bit on this as did all NOI Ministers then and now. There's nothing in NOI theology that is a 'response teaching'.  Devil is a term that denotes how white people biologically relate to Black people and does not hinge on "evil treatment".

 

However that has nothing to do with any response that I've posted nor does it counter the need to correctly any understand a given situation and the circumstances surrounding it. 

 

The NOI did not "invent" the historical record....we check and cite from it, as scholars do.

 

The burden of proof is on those who are offering reasons why the actual facts of the situation are ignored.  Why are the narratives of missionaries (many of whom carry the white supremacist thinking) being given weight as evidence while actual cultural historians are completely ignored?

 

The answer is simple.  Black people have become lawyers for white supremacy in this regard but are too blinded by suspicion of all things Islamic to see it and be honest about it......though this is changing.

 

We (Muslims) do not run from history, we engage it in truth.  Those who are genuine  about this subject don't suddenly lose interest when they find out that the African conflicts (including the use of slave institutions) involving Muslims and non Muslims where not delineated by race. 

 

 

I understand the party line. Another time maybe.

Originally Posted by Kocolicious:

  So what I'm getting from all this ridiculous talk is that Arabs did not enslave or sold Africans.  Right?  So if that's the case...the SKY is purple.  But!

Easy to blow a fuse when speaking with a true believer. 

Originally Posted by Kocolicious:

  This is what KILLS me all the time about so-called brothers.....they always wanna MAXIMIZE and JUSTIFY their perception[which is constantly in debate] while minimizing and dismissing others point of view on the same topic.  For me?  I don't give a damn.  All I know is I would NEVER as a free person willfully engage myself with any institution religion or no that subjugate and enslave other human beings for personal gain.  Now someone tell me[since we have all these smarty pants] HOW CAN THOSE WHO CLAIM THEY LOOOOOOOOOOOVE GOD SO MUCH and are soooooooooo LOYAL...do that?  Explain.     But!

That's fine and understandable, but when dealing with history and present circumstances that extend well beyond what you see yourself doing....you still need to know what is going on.  Nothing is being minimized and nothing is being dismissed.  There is no justifiable ignorance when there's no shortage of people who discuss this with literally anyone who will listen.

 

I understand the party line. Another time maybe.

Since we're now talking about "party lines"....

let me make sure I understand you correctly.  Are you saying you understand that this subject by many informed accounts has more complexity about than previously represented (ie the party line) and as such you're going to respond at a later time?

 

Or are you suggesting the information provided should be dismissed as the "party line" response, to which you'll wait until a later time/thread where you can repeat claims without challenge?

Originally Posted by DennisKalita:
Originally Posted by Kocolicious:

  So what I'm getting from all this ridiculous talk is that Arabs did not enslave or sold Africans.  Right?  So if that's the case...the SKY is purple.  But!

Easy to blow a fuse when speaking with a true believer. 

 

There's really nothing difficult about this.  Just be honest what you know and what you don't know. 

 

You can type "Arab" all day long when the perception is that they're "white invaders".  When that game is going, its the most important thing that Black people need to know. The moment someone ask for an explicit definition of Arab and an identification of who where the participants in a given situation....suddenly details are not important. 

 

 

 

Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:
Originally Posted by Kocolicious:

  This is what KILLS me all the time about so-called brothers.....they always wanna MAXIMIZE and JUSTIFY their perception[which is constantly in debate] while minimizing and dismissing others point of view on the same topic.  For me?  I don't give a damn.  All I know is I would NEVER as a free person willfully engage myself with any institution religion or no that subjugate and enslave other human beings for personal gain.  Now someone tell me[since we have all these smarty pants] HOW CAN THOSE WHO CLAIM THEY LOOOOOOOOOOOVE GOD SO MUCH and are soooooooooo LOYAL...do that?  Explain.     But!

That's fine and understandable, but when dealing with history and present circumstances that extend well beyond what you see yourself doing....you still need to know what is going on.  Nothing is being minimized and nothing is being dismissed.  There is no justifiable ignorance when there's no shortage of people who discuss this with literally anyone who will listen.

 

I understand the party line. Another time maybe.

Since we're now talking about "party lines"....

let me make sure I understand you correctly.  Are you saying you understand that this subject by many informed accounts has more complexity about than previously represented (ie the party line) and as such you're going to respond at a later time?

 

Or are you suggesting the information provided should be dismissed as the "party line" response, to which you'll wait until a later time/thread where you can repeat claims without challenge?

Sure, you have the right to headache and quibble about the pan-ethnic ID of Arabs and make-believe  “facts” that they weren’t involved in the slave trade. Why lie about any oppressor for political reasons?  You have the right not to document the non-evidence about the supposed six century genetics project of inventing Caucasians by  Yakub. That’s make-believe.  You are flat wrong. Allah created  the races. Believe in Yakub and whatever you like. This is a crazy-making fantasy, IMHO. Yes, I know the party line “facts” in advance.  That’s why there’s no way I will  continue this in a later thread. No way.

Saingy farewell to the crazy-making mind and haters. Leaving off with a few  quotes from my journal:

 

“Be in this world as if you were a stranger or a wayfarer.”

― Muhammad

 

The strong person is not the good wrestler. Rather,the strong person is the one who controls himself when he is angry.

Sahih al-Bukhari

 

‘Abdul Rahman b. Abban used to buy slaves then he would order his servants to clothe them and then to present them before him. He would then say: “You are all free for the sake of Allah as I seek your assistance [i.e. the reward I receive from freeing you for the sake of Allah] when undergoing the anguish of death.”

 

“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.”

― Rumi

 

 “The wound is the place where the Light enters you.”

- Rumi

 

 “If you are irritated by every rub, how will your mirror be polished?”

― Rumi

 

“True Islam taught me that it takes all of the religious, political, economic, psychological, and racial ingredients, or characteristics, to make the Human Family and the Human Society complete.”

― Malcolm X

 

“None of you believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself.”

 The Translation of the Meanings of Sahih Al-Bukhari 

Originally Posted by DennisKalita:
Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:
Originally Posted by Kocolicious:

  This is what KILLS me all the time about so-called brothers.....they always wanna MAXIMIZE and JUSTIFY their perception[which is constantly in debate] while minimizing and dismissing others point of view on the same topic.  For me?  I don't give a damn.  All I know is I would NEVER as a free person willfully engage myself with any institution religion or no that subjugate and enslave other human beings for personal gain.  Now someone tell me[since we have all these smarty pants] HOW CAN THOSE WHO CLAIM THEY LOOOOOOOOOOOVE GOD SO MUCH and are soooooooooo LOYAL...do that?  Explain.     But!

That's fine and understandable, but when dealing with history and present circumstances that extend well beyond what you see yourself doing....you still need to know what is going on.  Nothing is being minimized and nothing is being dismissed.  There is no justifiable ignorance when there's no shortage of people who discuss this with literally anyone who will listen.

 

I understand the party line. Another time maybe.

Since we're now talking about "party lines"....

let me make sure I understand you correctly.  Are you saying you understand that this subject by many informed accounts has more complexity about than previously represented (ie the party line) and as such you're going to respond at a later time?

 

Or are you suggesting the information provided should be dismissed as the "party line" response, to which you'll wait until a later time/thread where you can repeat claims without challenge?

Sure, you have the right to headache and quibble about the pan-ethnic ID of Arabs and make-believe  “facts” that they weren’t involved in the slave trade. Why lie about any oppressor for political reasons?  You have the right not to document the non-evidence about the supposed six century genetics project of inventing Caucasians by  Yakub. That’s make-believe.  You are flat wrong. Allah created  the races. Believe in Yakub and whatever you like. This is a crazy-making fantasy, IMHO. Yes, I know the party line “facts” in advance.  That’s why there’s no way I will  continue this in a later thread. No way.

 

LOL!

 

All I asked is "what are you basing that on", to which you replied:

 

This is based on Arabic. Many Africans have been brainwashed into abandoning their lively culture and taking on Islam and Arab cultur.e Many Arabs see Africans as inferior. Abids is an Arabic word for  black slaves and also black people in the Arabic language.

Now when I post material that deals directly with language associated with color in Arabic that also addresses the ethnicity of Arab and how Arab culture understood it.....now its quibbling and "made up facts".

 

LOL

 

If you're not willing to deal with cultural phenomena that took place approx 1400+ years ago, are you now seriously trying to shift the subject to something that took place 6000+ years ago?  Really?

 

Same rules apply.  If you're going to bring it up and take a hard position on it, be ready to support your position

 

You can type "Arab" all day long when the perception is that they're "white invaders".  When that game is going, its the most important thing that Black people need to know. The moment someone ask for an explicit definition of Arab and an identification of who where the participants in a given situation....suddenly details are not important.

Is that not what has happen on AA.org yet again on this issue?

 

Stop acting like you want to discuss the game if you're not willing to get the players right.

 

 

DK wrote:  Easy to blow a fuse when speaking with a true believer

 

  You got that right....but!  This isn't MY first rodeo with this brotha.  He, like most men do, THINK his knowledge and perception is better than mine.   Therefore he's tries to aggressively but clandestinely dismiss what I say on the side while attempting to validate his point of view. As if I have the inability to think for myself.   But!  As I told him many many times....his VOTE don't count.  Unfortunately he's not listening.  But!.   

Last edited by Kocolicious

Or are you suggesting the information provided should be dismissed as the "party line" response, to which you'll wait until a later time/thread where you can repeat claims without challenge?

 

  Let me remind you again....STOP.  TALKING TO ME.  

Last edited by Kocolicious
Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:

 

Don't get mad at me because ya'll don't know what ya'll talking about. 

 

Blindly repeating things without even trying to understand them.

 

 

You realize people can say the same thing to you, dontcha? 

Originally Posted by nuggyt:
Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:

 

Don't get mad at me because ya'll don't know what ya'll talking about. 

 

Blindly repeating things without even trying to understand them.

 

 

You realize people can say the same thing to you, dontcha? 

Sure, people can say anything they like. 

 

The question is what can you show & prove.

Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:
Originally Posted by nuggyt:
Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:

 

Don't get mad at me because ya'll don't know what ya'll talking about. 

 

Blindly repeating things without even trying to understand them.

 

 

You realize people can say the same thing to you, dontcha? 

Sure, people can say anything they like. 

 

The question is what can you show & prove.

What happens on this and every other such forum is that people "show & prove" from both sides and both side call the other side's "proof" false.

Originally Posted by nuggyt:
Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:
Originally Posted by nuggyt:
Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:

 

Don't get mad at me because ya'll don't know what ya'll talking about. 

 

Blindly repeating things without even trying to understand them.

 

 

You realize people can say the same thing to you, dontcha? 

Sure, people can say anything they like. 

 

The question is what can you show & prove.

What happens on this and every other such forum is that people "show & prove" from both sides and both side call the other side's "proof" false.

Again, you can call a post anything you'd like.  Proving something is a completely different standard beyond repeating something.  Its an issue of demonstrability.

 

So yes, people disagree and offer different perspectives and that can be a good and productive thing.  Repeating things as if they are known facts while not being able to give evidence for the facts you introduce or even your arguments reasoning.....that's also a persons right.

 

Can't get too upset if you get called on it. Whether I agree with the position or not.

Originally Posted by nuggyt:

Very true! Every forum and every news thread devolves into a bickering war. Everyone proudly defends their "factual" brand of ignorance. That’s all human beings, all races and brand name religions.  What folks call “knowledge” is really ignorance on parade!!! They know not what they do. Buddha said ignorance is the cause of all suffering- that’s deep – especially when you see it parading as prideful knowledge.  Mess with someone’s religious or political brand of ignorance and you could get killed. I work in the Gulf States and we openly check in on Twitter dialogues. The murderous rage between Sunni and Shia Muslims is ignorance on parade. That’s what hate is, ignorance on parade. No one is civilized, no one! The taboo “n” word is just ignorant uncivilized  white folks pretending that they are civilized and projecting their uncivilized side onto black folks. Of coursed, white folks are  uncivilized as hell! They can't  face it. That IS ignorace,  The truth is that everyone, no exceptions to; the rule,  is messed up, uncivilized and, ignorant. Here’s the deal. If you/I/we  can see that, we’re on the spiritual road of real self-knowledge of seeing how ignorant we are! I understand this a little but have a ways to go. Prideful brand name religions have millions of miles to go. None of them worship God. They all worship their brand of a war god. If you see the One, like Mansur Al-Hallaj who declared truth (Al-Haq) you get crucified or killed. Malcolm X began to see the Big Picture. He got hit too. The real taboo is God, universal love and brotherhood. That’s how crazy it is. That’s how crazy human beings are. And you see it on these forums too. 

Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:
Originally Posted by nuggyt:
Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:

 

Don't get mad at me because ya'll don't know what ya'll talking about. 

 

Blindly repeating things without even trying to understand them.

 

 

You realize people can say the same thing to you, dontcha? 

Sure, people can say anything they like. 

 

The question is what can you show & prove.

What happens on this and every other such forum is that people "show & prove" from both sides and both side call the other side's "proof" false.

 

Very true! Every forum and every news thread devolves into a bickering war. Everyone proudly defends their brand of ignorance. That’s all human beings, all races and brand name religions.  What folks call “knowledge” is really ignorance on parade!!! They know not what they do. Buddha said ignorance is the cause of all suffering- that’s deep – especially when you see it parading as prideful knowledge.  Mess with someone’s religious or political brand of ignorance and you could get killed. I work in the Gulf States and we openly check in on Twitter dialogues. The murderous rage between Sunni and Shia Muslims is ignorance on parade. That’s what hate is, ignorance on parade. No one is civilized, no one! The taboo “n” word is just ignorant uncivilized  white folks pretending that they are civilized and projecting their uncivilized side onto black folks. Of coursed, white folks are  uncivilized as hell! The truth is that everyone, no exceptions to; the rule,  is messed up, uncivilized and, ignorant. Here’s the deal. If you/I/we   can see that, we’re on the spiritual road of real self-knowledge of seeing how ignorant we are! I understand this a little but have a ways to go. Prideful brand name religions have millions of miles to go. None of them worship God. They all worship their brand of a war god. If you see the One, like Mansur Al-Hallaj declared truth ( Al-Haq) you get crucified or killed. Malcolm X began to see the Big Picture. He got hit too. The real taboo is God, universal love and brotherhood. That’s how crazy it is. That’s how crazy human beings are. 

Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:

 

Don't get mad at me because ya'll don't know what ya'll talking about. 

 

Blindly repeating things without even trying to understand them.

 

 

It's that little face ""that tells the real story. It's the prideful attitude that you think you know and others are ignorant. uh-huh. 

Complete emotionalism. How easily we dismiss other people's perspectives based on our own set of 'facts' rather than exploring the information they present. The exploration of the Arab slave trade is an issue that has been around in the African American circles for 40 years or more. Imagine how much longer it has been going around in the African intellectual world? But hardly anyone brings those issues to light with the exception of a few Afrocentric scholars who have been and studied in the motherland...

  I just like to say....I ain't MAD about nothing. I don't HAVE to prove a thang.  I am VERY pleased....tremendously satisfied with the knowledge, experience and academic achievements I have obtained through the years. But those who point fingers citing falsehoods are the very ones who are IMMATURE and unable to digest other perceptions other than their own.  And for me?  I find that tragic cuz there is no ROOM for growth or learning.   And could be WHY there are folks STUCK in the past instead of moving forward toward the future.  But!

Last edited by Kocolicious

Brotha Jalil wrote:  It's that little face ""that tells the real story. It's the prideful attitude that you think you know and others are ignorant. uh-huh. 

 

EXACTLY!!!   But!

Originally Posted by Jalil:
Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:

 

Don't get mad at me because ya'll don't know what ya'll talking about. 

 

Blindly repeating things without even trying to understand them.

 

 

It's that little face ""that tells the real story. It's the prideful attitude that you think you know and others are ignorant. uh-huh. 

Nothing prideful at all. 

 

I haven't dismissed any perspective, on the contrary I've attempted to directly engage it.  This is why I asked first "what are you basing this on?"

I don't now, nor have I ever claimed to be an expert in this area.  But if its going to be discussed, lets be accurate with events and their context.

 

 

Complete emotionalism. How easily we dismiss other people's perspectives based on our own set of 'facts' rather than exploring the information they present. The exploration of the Arab slave trade is an issue that has been around in the African American circles for 40 years or more. Imagine how much longer it has been going around in the African intellectual world? But hardly anyone brings those issues to light with the exception of a few Afrocentric scholars who have been and studied in the motherland...

 

Oh I completely agree. 

 

Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:
Originally Posted by Jalil:
Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:

 

Don't get mad at me because ya'll don't know what ya'll talking about. 

 

Blindly repeating things without even trying to understand them.

 

 

It's that little face ""that tells the real story. It's the prideful attitude that you think you know and others are ignorant. uh-huh. 

Nothing prideful at all. 

 

I haven't dismissed any perspective, on the contrary I've attempted to directly engage it.  This is why I asked first "what are you basing this on?"

I don't now, nor have I ever claimed to be an expert in this area.  But if its going to be discussed, lets be accurate with events and their context.

 

 

Complete emotionalism. How easily we dismiss other people's perspectives based on our own set of 'facts' rather than exploring the information they present. The exploration of the Arab slave trade is an issue that has been around in the African American circles for 40 years or more. Imagine how much longer it has been going around in the African intellectual world? But hardly anyone brings those issues to light with the exception of a few Afrocentric scholars who have been and studied in the motherland...

 

Oh I completely agree. 

 

You want to say that you have no pride. You happen to know more than others who get mad at you because you know best through your brand name religion. You've got the facts, right?  Others are ignorant but you kniw. And you have no pride. Does your little smiley face  have pride? No way, right?! Then you say, “show and prove”. Someone else asked you “show and prove” that someone named Yakub genetically invented white people. You did not “show and prove” the scientific documentation. You cannot fulfill your own motto. Listen up, here’s a cool Islamic story.  A wise man asked who was greater Mahomet or the celebrated  teacher Betsami. Mahomet said no one had known Allah as he should be known and further said that God’s mercy was infinite. Betsami said he fully knew Allah and that Allah resided within him. Betsami was a know–it-all. That is a/k/a ego. His cup was filled with partial knowledge. His ears were blocked.He "knew".  His realization  was incomplete, a fantasy, because he thought he had it down. He claimed to have the answers. He may have been a boring close-minded guy to be around. Mahomet understood that God was infinite. His mind and heart was open to the infinitude of Allah. Who was greater? 

You want to say that you have no pride. You happen to know more than others who get mad at you because you know best through your brand name religion. You've got the facts, right?  

I don't understand what you're saying above.

 

Others are ignorant but you kniw. And you have no pride. Does your little smiley face  have pride? No way, right?!

I can only go off of how one represents their level of knowledge and what they present in the light of how they represent themselves. 

 

Then you say, “show and prove”. Someone else asked you “show and prove” that someone named Yakub genetically invented white people. You did not “show and prove” the scientific documentation.

No such request was made of me.  Lets review:

 

If I ask you to expound and document in writing  the history and exact science that substantiates this story, can you produce hard science evidence?  That’s for an example.

I responded to the introduction of Yacub given that He (as a subject) is well beyond the scope of this particular thread, and not anything I introduced in anyway, much less as a counter anything in this threads comments.  Now if you're really interested in getting into any scientific evidence regarding Yacub, no matter what your position is on him, you're going to run into the same issues and subject that people are dogging in this thread. Anthropology and archeology have rules of evidence and model construction that are very different from how people discuss history and development.  And its true, that even in that case, one still has to present the reasoning for the use of a given model. 

 

 

You cannot fulfill your own motto. Listen up, here’s a cool Islamic story.  A wise man asked who was greater Mahomet or the celebrated  teacher Betsami. Mahomet said no one had known Allah as he should be known and further said that God’s mercy was infinite. Betsami said he fully knew Allah and that Allah resided within him. Betsami was a know–it-all. That is a/k/a ego. His cup was filled with partial knowledge. His ears were blocked.He "knew".  His realization  was incomplete, a fantasy, because he thought he had it down. He claimed to have the answers. He may have been a boring close-minded guy to be around. Mahomet understood that God was infinite. His mind and heart was open to the infinitude of Allah. Who was greater?

 

I see. 

 

So when I ask questions concerning the evidence on a subject or particular claim I am giving the "party line" and defending the oppressor etc etc. etc.  However, I can be questioned on an element of NOI Theology (improperly represented and with no claim of relevance to the topic), accusations of "made up facts" with no counter evidence introduced, and now a philosophical question.

 

And you wonder why I use the smiley emoticon?

 

I didn't post this thread, I only made a comment and posed a question in it concerning it.

 

Questions that still haven't been answered.

 

 

 

We should remember that we have been indoctrinated by our oppressor. We have been fed lies and half-truths concerning ourselves and other people around the world. White supremacy isn't a USA phenomenon, it's a global phenomenon. It's insidious and widespread. 

 

In this country, the two most hated groups are...

1. Blacks

2. Muslims (regardless of race)

 

Most of what you hear about these two groups are negative, biased, or outright false (propaganda). 

 

One of the main reasons we remain in a dismal state, as a people, is that we seem incapable or unwilling to set aside our differences to work together to uplift our people. Who cares if that black man or woman who is honestly trying to help his or her people is gay, too dark, too light, an Atheist, a Jew, a Muslim, had committed a crime 20 years ago, is wealthy, is poor, speaks proper English, speaks bad English, lives in the South, lives in Utah, loves country music, has 'bad' hair, loves rap, etc. We allow our (petty) differences to keep us divided. Our oppressor is fully aware of this and exploits it.

 

Islam is the second fast growing religion in the USA (after Christianity). The last thing our oppressor wants is a large, black Muslim population. In particular, they do not want a large black population following the teachings of the Nation of Islam. Why? Because they would no longer have any psychological control over the black population. Keeping us oppressed and ignorant benefits and furthers the system of white supremacy. Oppressor's Goals:

 

1. Make sure blacks receive a constant barrage of negative propaganda about Muslims.

2. Make sure blacks believe all Muslims are Arabs.

3. Avoid showing images of black Arabs at all costs.

4. Downplay or minimize the European involvement in the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade while emphasizing the Arab slave trade. Make them synonymous. Hell, change history. Tell blacks that Arabs enslaved white Europeans and forced them to enslave black Africans. 

 

http://fastestgrowingreligion.com/numbers.html

 

Anyway, I digress. Here are some articles and videos that prove we aren't being told the full truth.

 

Arabs:

 

Yes, the original Arabs were black! Many are still black, LOL. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggLEQvpkSeU

 

What is considered the Arab world?

Eritrea, Djibouti, Somalia, Ethiopia, Libya, Algeria, Morocco, Egypt, Sudan, Tunisia, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, Oman, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Georgia, and Azerbaijan. I might have missed a couple of countries.

 

Not all Arabs are Muslim (although the majority are Muslims). The majority of Muslims, in this world, are not Arab.

 

This is important. White Arabs (with the white supremacy mindset) view blacks no differently than the way white Christians (with the white supremacy mindset) view blacks. Whites are a minority on this planet, yet they have practically all of the wealth. We, the majority, are allowing a small group of people rule us. This small group of people holds the power and controls what information we receive. This group knows that the masses will not question what it is being told. If you want the truth, you have to research it.

 

Here is a video about the racism blacks face in Morocco. Look at the faces of the rulers. It is a revolting shame because hundreds of years ago, only dark-skinned blacks lived in that area now called Morocco. They were displaced by white invaders.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV1rcEed3Hg

 

Some information about Muammar Gaddafi (one of the most hated by the West) that was not broadcast on mainstream news and other outlets to the people in the USA:

 

Gaddafi apologizes for Arab slave traders:

http://edition.presstv.ir/detail/146302.html

 

Muammar Gaddafi on White Supremacy, Black Liberation and Black Supremacy:

http://libya360.wordpress.com/...ion-black-supremacy/

 

The Arab Slave Trade (another perspective):

 

  'There is nothing nice about being a slave of either Arabs, Europeans, or even Africans. Slavery, mild or otherwise, is a crime against a human being. But it would be historically and morally inaccurate not to cite that there is a serious difference between vassal-ship and chattel-ship.

  'Western Europe not only corrupted the slave/servility systems in Africa, they also caused the Arab slave boom in the 19th century. And most critical is Europe's continuation of the African Holocaust up through colonialism, apartheid, neocolonialism and the current exploitation of Africa's resources. These events are not disconnected, although attempts are made to dichotomize these realities.' 

Excerpt from The Arab Slave Trade. http://www.arabslavetrade.com/

 

The Trans Atlantic Slave Trade (Ghanian perspective):

 

'During the heyday of early European competition, slavery was an accepted social institution, and the slave trade overshadowed all other commercial activities on the West African coast. To be sure, slavery and slave trading were already firmly entrenched in many African societies before their contact with Europe. In most situations, men as well as women captured in local warfare became slaves. In general, however, slaves in African communities were often treated as junior members of the society with specific rights, and many were ultimately absorbed into their masters' families as full members. Given traditional methods of agricultural production in Africa, slavery in Africa was quite different from that which existed in the commercial plantation environments of the New World.'

http://www.ghanaweb.com/GhanaH...tory/slave-trade.php

 

Modern-Day Slavery (Human Trafficking and the Industrial Prison Complex):

 

Mauritania is ranked first as where slavery is the worst, followed by Haiti.

http://www.freetheslaves.net/document.doc?id=34

 

Human Trafficking Facts:

http://www.unglobalcompact.org...HE_FACTS_-_final.pdf

 

The Prison Industrial Complex:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/t...form-of-slavery/8289

And we all know which groups have a disproportionate number of people locked up.

 

There has been some form of slavery in every country. There have been members of every racial group, religious group, and ethnic group who have been guilty of enslaving another human being...in both the past and in the present.

 

Slavery is wrong. Period.

 

Sidebar:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sci...-habits-changed.html

 

Originally Posted by EarthAndSky:

We should remember that we have been indoctrinated by our oppressor. We have been fed lies and half-truths concerning ourselves and other people around the world. White supremacy isn't a USA phenomenon, it's a global phenomenon. It's insidious and widespread. 

 

In this country, the two most hated groups are...

1. Blacks

2. Muslims (regardless of race)

 

Most of what you hear about these two groups are negative, biased, or outright false (propaganda). 

 

One of the main reasons we remain in a dismal state, as a people, is that we seem incapable or unwilling to set aside our differences to work together to uplift our people. Who cares if that black man or woman who is honestly trying to help his or her people is gay, too dark, too light, an Atheist, a Jew, a Muslim, had committed a crime 20 years ago, is wealthy, is poor, speaks proper English, speaks bad English, lives in the South, lives in Utah, loves country music, has 'bad' hair, loves rap, etc. We allow our (petty) differences to keep us divided. Our oppressor is fully aware of this and exploits it.

 

Islam is the second fast growing religion in the USA (after Christianity). The last thing our oppressor wants is a large, black Muslim population. In particular, they do not want a large black population following the teachings of the Nation of Islam. Why? Because they would no longer have any psychological control over the black population. Keeping us oppressed and ignorant benefits and furthers the system of white supremacy. Oppressor's Goals:

 

1. Make sure blacks receive a constant barrage of negative propaganda about Muslims.

2. Make sure blacks believe all Muslims are Arabs.

3. Avoid showing images of black Arabs at all costs.

4. Downplay or minimize the European involvement in the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade while emphasizing the Arab slave trade. Make them synonymous. Hell, change history. Tell blacks that Arabs enslaved white Europeans and forced them to enslave black Africans. 

 

http://fastestgrowingreligion.com/numbers.html

 

Anyway, I digress. Here are some articles and videos that prove we aren't being told the full truth.

 

Arabs:

 

Yes, the original Arabs were black! Many are still black, LOL. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggLEQvpkSeU

 

What is considered the Arab world?

Eritrea, Djibouti, Somalia, Ethiopia, Libya, Algeria, Morocco, Egypt, Sudan, Tunisia, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, Oman, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Georgia, and Azerbaijan. I might have missed a couple of countries.

 

Not all Arabs are Muslim (although the majority are Muslims). The majority of Muslims, in this world, are not Arab.

 

This is important. White Arabs (with the white supremacy mindset) view blacks no differently than the way white Christians (with the white supremacy mindset) view blacks. Whites are a minority on this planet, yet they have practically all of the wealth. We, the majority, are allowing a small group of people rule us. This small group of people holds the power and controls what information we receive. This group knows that the masses will not question what it is being told. If you want the truth, you have to research it.

 

Here is a video about the racism blacks face in Morocco. Look at the faces of the rulers. It is a revolting shame because hundreds of years ago, only dark-skinned blacks lived in that area now called Morocco. They were displaced by white invaders.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV1rcEed3Hg

 

Some information about Muammar Gaddafi (one of the most hated by the West) that was not broadcast on mainstream news and other outlets to the people in the USA:

 

Gaddafi apologizes for Arab slave traders:

http://edition.presstv.ir/detail/146302.html

 

Muammar Gaddafi on White Supremacy, Black Liberation and Black Supremacy:

http://libya360.wordpress.com/...ion-black-supremacy/

 

The Arab Slave Trade (another perspective):

 

  'There is nothing nice about being a slave of either Arabs, Europeans, or even Africans. Slavery, mild or otherwise, is a crime against a human being. But it would be historically and morally inaccurate not to cite that there is a serious difference between vassal-ship and chattel-ship.

  'Western Europe not only corrupted the slave/servility systems in Africa, they also caused the Arab slave boom in the 19th century. And most critical is Europe's continuation of the African Holocaust up through colonialism, apartheid, neocolonialism and the current exploitation of Africa's resources. These events are not disconnected, although attempts are made to dichotomize these realities.' 

Excerpt from The Arab Slave Trade. http://www.arabslavetrade.com/

 

The Trans Atlantic Slave Trade (Ghanian perspective):

 

'During the heyday of early European competition, slavery was an accepted social institution, and the slave trade overshadowed all other commercial activities on the West African coast. To be sure, slavery and slave trading were already firmly entrenched in many African societies before their contact with Europe. In most situations, men as well as women captured in local warfare became slaves. In general, however, slaves in African communities were often treated as junior members of the society with specific rights, and many were ultimately absorbed into their masters' families as full members. Given traditional methods of agricultural production in Africa, slavery in Africa was quite different from that which existed in the commercial plantation environments of the New World.'

http://www.ghanaweb.com/GhanaH...tory/slave-trade.php

 

Modern-Day Slavery (Human Trafficking and the Industrial Prison Complex):

 

Mauritania is ranked first as where slavery is the worst, followed by Haiti.

http://www.freetheslaves.net/document.doc?id=34

 

Human Trafficking Facts:

http://www.unglobalcompact.org...HE_FACTS_-_final.pdf

 

The Prison Industrial Complex:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/t...form-of-slavery/8289

And we all know which groups have a disproportionate number of people locked up.

 

There has been some form of slavery in every country. There have been members of every racial group, religious group, and ethnic group who have been guilty of enslaving another human being...in both the past and in the present.

 

Slavery is wrong. Period.

 

Sidebar:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sci...-habits-changed.html

 

I’m listening with a more open ear taking  what I feel is true and leaving out the rest. I like most all  of it. The last idea that whites were created 55 centuries ago, ,alright, let me say it, means  that if we stay in the northern climates we’ll all be white in time to come.  We’ll run out of black people in days to come unless more come here. We could also send whites down to the Equator where, if this works both ways,  they will naturally become black. We can then recycle them back up here.

 

When a person  wants to believe something, they will  find a reason to believe it. No one knows who or what or especially how  the different races of mankind were created.  No one knows that. There is no documentation or proof. That knowledge is sealed by HIM. It is beyond us. The One is the greatest truth. I try to live that although I mostly fail. 

@EarthAndSky

 

Thanks for posting some the those links.  This issue is complicated in part because of identity confusion, conflation and assumptions all on top of geopolitical/imperial &white supremacist ideology.

 

There has been a shift in attitude toward this subject.  From a link you posted:

 

The first location of anything African starts with the re-evaluation of the pedagogy and paradigms. Even the most progressive minds of the African world are still responding to, and framing African history within that 15th century discovery paradigm created at the moment of European conquest.

 

http://www.arabslavetrade.com/

 

 

 

This is something Mahmood Mamdani spoke to during a lecture at Howard and its one of the most overlooked part of African scholarship even by people who are very sincere in their efforts.

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