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Originally Posted by nuggyt:
Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:

 

Don't get mad at me because ya'll don't know what ya'll talking about. 

 

Blindly repeating things without even trying to understand them.

 

 

You realize people can say the same thing to you, dontcha? 

Sure, people can say anything they like. 

 

The question is what can you show & prove.

Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:
Originally Posted by nuggyt:
Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:

 

Don't get mad at me because ya'll don't know what ya'll talking about. 

 

Blindly repeating things without even trying to understand them.

 

 

You realize people can say the same thing to you, dontcha? 

Sure, people can say anything they like. 

 

The question is what can you show & prove.

What happens on this and every other such forum is that people "show & prove" from both sides and both side call the other side's "proof" false.

Originally Posted by nuggyt:
Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:
Originally Posted by nuggyt:
Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:

 

Don't get mad at me because ya'll don't know what ya'll talking about. 

 

Blindly repeating things without even trying to understand them.

 

 

You realize people can say the same thing to you, dontcha? 

Sure, people can say anything they like. 

 

The question is what can you show & prove.

What happens on this and every other such forum is that people "show & prove" from both sides and both side call the other side's "proof" false.

Again, you can call a post anything you'd like.  Proving something is a completely different standard beyond repeating something.  Its an issue of demonstrability.

 

So yes, people disagree and offer different perspectives and that can be a good and productive thing.  Repeating things as if they are known facts while not being able to give evidence for the facts you introduce or even your arguments reasoning.....that's also a persons right.

 

Can't get too upset if you get called on it. Whether I agree with the position or not.

Originally Posted by nuggyt:

Very true! Every forum and every news thread devolves into a bickering war. Everyone proudly defends their "factual" brand of ignorance. That’s all human beings, all races and brand name religions.  What folks call “knowledge” is really ignorance on parade!!! They know not what they do. Buddha said ignorance is the cause of all suffering- that’s deep – especially when you see it parading as prideful knowledge.  Mess with someone’s religious or political brand of ignorance and you could get killed. I work in the Gulf States and we openly check in on Twitter dialogues. The murderous rage between Sunni and Shia Muslims is ignorance on parade. That’s what hate is, ignorance on parade. No one is civilized, no one! The taboo “n” word is just ignorant uncivilized  white folks pretending that they are civilized and projecting their uncivilized side onto black folks. Of coursed, white folks are  uncivilized as hell! They can't  face it. That IS ignorace,  The truth is that everyone, no exceptions to; the rule,  is messed up, uncivilized and, ignorant. Here’s the deal. If you/I/we  can see that, we’re on the spiritual road of real self-knowledge of seeing how ignorant we are! I understand this a little but have a ways to go. Prideful brand name religions have millions of miles to go. None of them worship God. They all worship their brand of a war god. If you see the One, like Mansur Al-Hallaj who declared truth (Al-Haq) you get crucified or killed. Malcolm X began to see the Big Picture. He got hit too. The real taboo is God, universal love and brotherhood. That’s how crazy it is. That’s how crazy human beings are. And you see it on these forums too. 

Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:
Originally Posted by nuggyt:
Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:

 

Don't get mad at me because ya'll don't know what ya'll talking about. 

 

Blindly repeating things without even trying to understand them.

 

 

You realize people can say the same thing to you, dontcha? 

Sure, people can say anything they like. 

 

The question is what can you show & prove.

What happens on this and every other such forum is that people "show & prove" from both sides and both side call the other side's "proof" false.

 

Very true! Every forum and every news thread devolves into a bickering war. Everyone proudly defends their brand of ignorance. That’s all human beings, all races and brand name religions.  What folks call “knowledge” is really ignorance on parade!!! They know not what they do. Buddha said ignorance is the cause of all suffering- that’s deep – especially when you see it parading as prideful knowledge.  Mess with someone’s religious or political brand of ignorance and you could get killed. I work in the Gulf States and we openly check in on Twitter dialogues. The murderous rage between Sunni and Shia Muslims is ignorance on parade. That’s what hate is, ignorance on parade. No one is civilized, no one! The taboo “n” word is just ignorant uncivilized  white folks pretending that they are civilized and projecting their uncivilized side onto black folks. Of coursed, white folks are  uncivilized as hell! The truth is that everyone, no exceptions to; the rule,  is messed up, uncivilized and, ignorant. Here’s the deal. If you/I/we   can see that, we’re on the spiritual road of real self-knowledge of seeing how ignorant we are! I understand this a little but have a ways to go. Prideful brand name religions have millions of miles to go. None of them worship God. They all worship their brand of a war god. If you see the One, like Mansur Al-Hallaj declared truth ( Al-Haq) you get crucified or killed. Malcolm X began to see the Big Picture. He got hit too. The real taboo is God, universal love and brotherhood. That’s how crazy it is. That’s how crazy human beings are. 

Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:

 

Don't get mad at me because ya'll don't know what ya'll talking about. 

 

Blindly repeating things without even trying to understand them.

 

 

It's that little face ""that tells the real story. It's the prideful attitude that you think you know and others are ignorant. uh-huh. 

Complete emotionalism. How easily we dismiss other people's perspectives based on our own set of 'facts' rather than exploring the information they present. The exploration of the Arab slave trade is an issue that has been around in the African American circles for 40 years or more. Imagine how much longer it has been going around in the African intellectual world? But hardly anyone brings those issues to light with the exception of a few Afrocentric scholars who have been and studied in the motherland...

  I just like to say....I ain't MAD about nothing. I don't HAVE to prove a thang.  I am VERY pleased....tremendously satisfied with the knowledge, experience and academic achievements I have obtained through the years. But those who point fingers citing falsehoods are the very ones who are IMMATURE and unable to digest other perceptions other than their own.  And for me?  I find that tragic cuz there is no ROOM for growth or learning.   And could be WHY there are folks STUCK in the past instead of moving forward toward the future.  But!

Last edited by Kocolicious
Originally Posted by Jalil:
Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:

 

Don't get mad at me because ya'll don't know what ya'll talking about. 

 

Blindly repeating things without even trying to understand them.

 

 

It's that little face ""that tells the real story. It's the prideful attitude that you think you know and others are ignorant. uh-huh. 

Nothing prideful at all. 

 

I haven't dismissed any perspective, on the contrary I've attempted to directly engage it.  This is why I asked first "what are you basing this on?"

I don't now, nor have I ever claimed to be an expert in this area.  But if its going to be discussed, lets be accurate with events and their context.

 

 

Complete emotionalism. How easily we dismiss other people's perspectives based on our own set of 'facts' rather than exploring the information they present. The exploration of the Arab slave trade is an issue that has been around in the African American circles for 40 years or more. Imagine how much longer it has been going around in the African intellectual world? But hardly anyone brings those issues to light with the exception of a few Afrocentric scholars who have been and studied in the motherland...

 

Oh I completely agree. 

 

Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:
Originally Posted by Jalil:
Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:

 

Don't get mad at me because ya'll don't know what ya'll talking about. 

 

Blindly repeating things without even trying to understand them.

 

 

It's that little face ""that tells the real story. It's the prideful attitude that you think you know and others are ignorant. uh-huh. 

Nothing prideful at all. 

 

I haven't dismissed any perspective, on the contrary I've attempted to directly engage it.  This is why I asked first "what are you basing this on?"

I don't now, nor have I ever claimed to be an expert in this area.  But if its going to be discussed, lets be accurate with events and their context.

 

 

Complete emotionalism. How easily we dismiss other people's perspectives based on our own set of 'facts' rather than exploring the information they present. The exploration of the Arab slave trade is an issue that has been around in the African American circles for 40 years or more. Imagine how much longer it has been going around in the African intellectual world? But hardly anyone brings those issues to light with the exception of a few Afrocentric scholars who have been and studied in the motherland...

 

Oh I completely agree. 

 

You want to say that you have no pride. You happen to know more than others who get mad at you because you know best through your brand name religion. You've got the facts, right?  Others are ignorant but you kniw. And you have no pride. Does your little smiley face  have pride? No way, right?! Then you say, “show and prove”. Someone else asked you “show and prove” that someone named Yakub genetically invented white people. You did not “show and prove” the scientific documentation. You cannot fulfill your own motto. Listen up, here’s a cool Islamic story.  A wise man asked who was greater Mahomet or the celebrated  teacher Betsami. Mahomet said no one had known Allah as he should be known and further said that God’s mercy was infinite. Betsami said he fully knew Allah and that Allah resided within him. Betsami was a know–it-all. That is a/k/a ego. His cup was filled with partial knowledge. His ears were blocked.He "knew".  His realization  was incomplete, a fantasy, because he thought he had it down. He claimed to have the answers. He may have been a boring close-minded guy to be around. Mahomet understood that God was infinite. His mind and heart was open to the infinitude of Allah. Who was greater? 

You want to say that you have no pride. You happen to know more than others who get mad at you because you know best through your brand name religion. You've got the facts, right?  

I don't understand what you're saying above.

 

Others are ignorant but you kniw. And you have no pride. Does your little smiley face  have pride? No way, right?!

I can only go off of how one represents their level of knowledge and what they present in the light of how they represent themselves. 

 

Then you say, “show and prove”. Someone else asked you “show and prove” that someone named Yakub genetically invented white people. You did not “show and prove” the scientific documentation.

No such request was made of me.  Lets review:

 

If I ask you to expound and document in writing  the history and exact science that substantiates this story, can you produce hard science evidence?  That’s for an example.

I responded to the introduction of Yacub given that He (as a subject) is well beyond the scope of this particular thread, and not anything I introduced in anyway, much less as a counter anything in this threads comments.  Now if you're really interested in getting into any scientific evidence regarding Yacub, no matter what your position is on him, you're going to run into the same issues and subject that people are dogging in this thread. Anthropology and archeology have rules of evidence and model construction that are very different from how people discuss history and development.  And its true, that even in that case, one still has to present the reasoning for the use of a given model. 

 

 

You cannot fulfill your own motto. Listen up, here’s a cool Islamic story.  A wise man asked who was greater Mahomet or the celebrated  teacher Betsami. Mahomet said no one had known Allah as he should be known and further said that God’s mercy was infinite. Betsami said he fully knew Allah and that Allah resided within him. Betsami was a know–it-all. That is a/k/a ego. His cup was filled with partial knowledge. His ears were blocked.He "knew".  His realization  was incomplete, a fantasy, because he thought he had it down. He claimed to have the answers. He may have been a boring close-minded guy to be around. Mahomet understood that God was infinite. His mind and heart was open to the infinitude of Allah. Who was greater?

 

I see. 

 

So when I ask questions concerning the evidence on a subject or particular claim I am giving the "party line" and defending the oppressor etc etc. etc.  However, I can be questioned on an element of NOI Theology (improperly represented and with no claim of relevance to the topic), accusations of "made up facts" with no counter evidence introduced, and now a philosophical question.

 

And you wonder why I use the smiley emoticon?

 

I didn't post this thread, I only made a comment and posed a question in it concerning it.

 

Questions that still haven't been answered.

 

 

 

We should remember that we have been indoctrinated by our oppressor. We have been fed lies and half-truths concerning ourselves and other people around the world. White supremacy isn't a USA phenomenon, it's a global phenomenon. It's insidious and widespread. 

 

In this country, the two most hated groups are...

1. Blacks

2. Muslims (regardless of race)

 

Most of what you hear about these two groups are negative, biased, or outright false (propaganda). 

 

One of the main reasons we remain in a dismal state, as a people, is that we seem incapable or unwilling to set aside our differences to work together to uplift our people. Who cares if that black man or woman who is honestly trying to help his or her people is gay, too dark, too light, an Atheist, a Jew, a Muslim, had committed a crime 20 years ago, is wealthy, is poor, speaks proper English, speaks bad English, lives in the South, lives in Utah, loves country music, has 'bad' hair, loves rap, etc. We allow our (petty) differences to keep us divided. Our oppressor is fully aware of this and exploits it.

 

Islam is the second fast growing religion in the USA (after Christianity). The last thing our oppressor wants is a large, black Muslim population. In particular, they do not want a large black population following the teachings of the Nation of Islam. Why? Because they would no longer have any psychological control over the black population. Keeping us oppressed and ignorant benefits and furthers the system of white supremacy. Oppressor's Goals:

 

1. Make sure blacks receive a constant barrage of negative propaganda about Muslims.

2. Make sure blacks believe all Muslims are Arabs.

3. Avoid showing images of black Arabs at all costs.

4. Downplay or minimize the European involvement in the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade while emphasizing the Arab slave trade. Make them synonymous. Hell, change history. Tell blacks that Arabs enslaved white Europeans and forced them to enslave black Africans. 

 

http://fastestgrowingreligion.com/numbers.html

 

Anyway, I digress. Here are some articles and videos that prove we aren't being told the full truth.

 

Arabs:

 

Yes, the original Arabs were black! Many are still black, LOL. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggLEQvpkSeU

 

What is considered the Arab world?

Eritrea, Djibouti, Somalia, Ethiopia, Libya, Algeria, Morocco, Egypt, Sudan, Tunisia, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, Oman, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Georgia, and Azerbaijan. I might have missed a couple of countries.

 

Not all Arabs are Muslim (although the majority are Muslims). The majority of Muslims, in this world, are not Arab.

 

This is important. White Arabs (with the white supremacy mindset) view blacks no differently than the way white Christians (with the white supremacy mindset) view blacks. Whites are a minority on this planet, yet they have practically all of the wealth. We, the majority, are allowing a small group of people rule us. This small group of people holds the power and controls what information we receive. This group knows that the masses will not question what it is being told. If you want the truth, you have to research it.

 

Here is a video about the racism blacks face in Morocco. Look at the faces of the rulers. It is a revolting shame because hundreds of years ago, only dark-skinned blacks lived in that area now called Morocco. They were displaced by white invaders.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV1rcEed3Hg

 

Some information about Muammar Gaddafi (one of the most hated by the West) that was not broadcast on mainstream news and other outlets to the people in the USA:

 

Gaddafi apologizes for Arab slave traders:

http://edition.presstv.ir/detail/146302.html

 

Muammar Gaddafi on White Supremacy, Black Liberation and Black Supremacy:

http://libya360.wordpress.com/...ion-black-supremacy/

 

The Arab Slave Trade (another perspective):

 

  'There is nothing nice about being a slave of either Arabs, Europeans, or even Africans. Slavery, mild or otherwise, is a crime against a human being. But it would be historically and morally inaccurate not to cite that there is a serious difference between vassal-ship and chattel-ship.

  'Western Europe not only corrupted the slave/servility systems in Africa, they also caused the Arab slave boom in the 19th century. And most critical is Europe's continuation of the African Holocaust up through colonialism, apartheid, neocolonialism and the current exploitation of Africa's resources. These events are not disconnected, although attempts are made to dichotomize these realities.' 

Excerpt from The Arab Slave Trade. http://www.arabslavetrade.com/

 

The Trans Atlantic Slave Trade (Ghanian perspective):

 

'During the heyday of early European competition, slavery was an accepted social institution, and the slave trade overshadowed all other commercial activities on the West African coast. To be sure, slavery and slave trading were already firmly entrenched in many African societies before their contact with Europe. In most situations, men as well as women captured in local warfare became slaves. In general, however, slaves in African communities were often treated as junior members of the society with specific rights, and many were ultimately absorbed into their masters' families as full members. Given traditional methods of agricultural production in Africa, slavery in Africa was quite different from that which existed in the commercial plantation environments of the New World.'

http://www.ghanaweb.com/GhanaH...tory/slave-trade.php

 

Modern-Day Slavery (Human Trafficking and the Industrial Prison Complex):

 

Mauritania is ranked first as where slavery is the worst, followed by Haiti.

http://www.freetheslaves.net/document.doc?id=34

 

Human Trafficking Facts:

http://www.unglobalcompact.org...HE_FACTS_-_final.pdf

 

The Prison Industrial Complex:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/t...form-of-slavery/8289

And we all know which groups have a disproportionate number of people locked up.

 

There has been some form of slavery in every country. There have been members of every racial group, religious group, and ethnic group who have been guilty of enslaving another human being...in both the past and in the present.

 

Slavery is wrong. Period.

 

Sidebar:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sci...-habits-changed.html

 

Originally Posted by EarthAndSky:

We should remember that we have been indoctrinated by our oppressor. We have been fed lies and half-truths concerning ourselves and other people around the world. White supremacy isn't a USA phenomenon, it's a global phenomenon. It's insidious and widespread. 

 

In this country, the two most hated groups are...

1. Blacks

2. Muslims (regardless of race)

 

Most of what you hear about these two groups are negative, biased, or outright false (propaganda). 

 

One of the main reasons we remain in a dismal state, as a people, is that we seem incapable or unwilling to set aside our differences to work together to uplift our people. Who cares if that black man or woman who is honestly trying to help his or her people is gay, too dark, too light, an Atheist, a Jew, a Muslim, had committed a crime 20 years ago, is wealthy, is poor, speaks proper English, speaks bad English, lives in the South, lives in Utah, loves country music, has 'bad' hair, loves rap, etc. We allow our (petty) differences to keep us divided. Our oppressor is fully aware of this and exploits it.

 

Islam is the second fast growing religion in the USA (after Christianity). The last thing our oppressor wants is a large, black Muslim population. In particular, they do not want a large black population following the teachings of the Nation of Islam. Why? Because they would no longer have any psychological control over the black population. Keeping us oppressed and ignorant benefits and furthers the system of white supremacy. Oppressor's Goals:

 

1. Make sure blacks receive a constant barrage of negative propaganda about Muslims.

2. Make sure blacks believe all Muslims are Arabs.

3. Avoid showing images of black Arabs at all costs.

4. Downplay or minimize the European involvement in the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade while emphasizing the Arab slave trade. Make them synonymous. Hell, change history. Tell blacks that Arabs enslaved white Europeans and forced them to enslave black Africans. 

 

http://fastestgrowingreligion.com/numbers.html

 

Anyway, I digress. Here are some articles and videos that prove we aren't being told the full truth.

 

Arabs:

 

Yes, the original Arabs were black! Many are still black, LOL. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggLEQvpkSeU

 

What is considered the Arab world?

Eritrea, Djibouti, Somalia, Ethiopia, Libya, Algeria, Morocco, Egypt, Sudan, Tunisia, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, Oman, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Georgia, and Azerbaijan. I might have missed a couple of countries.

 

Not all Arabs are Muslim (although the majority are Muslims). The majority of Muslims, in this world, are not Arab.

 

This is important. White Arabs (with the white supremacy mindset) view blacks no differently than the way white Christians (with the white supremacy mindset) view blacks. Whites are a minority on this planet, yet they have practically all of the wealth. We, the majority, are allowing a small group of people rule us. This small group of people holds the power and controls what information we receive. This group knows that the masses will not question what it is being told. If you want the truth, you have to research it.

 

Here is a video about the racism blacks face in Morocco. Look at the faces of the rulers. It is a revolting shame because hundreds of years ago, only dark-skinned blacks lived in that area now called Morocco. They were displaced by white invaders.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV1rcEed3Hg

 

Some information about Muammar Gaddafi (one of the most hated by the West) that was not broadcast on mainstream news and other outlets to the people in the USA:

 

Gaddafi apologizes for Arab slave traders:

http://edition.presstv.ir/detail/146302.html

 

Muammar Gaddafi on White Supremacy, Black Liberation and Black Supremacy:

http://libya360.wordpress.com/...ion-black-supremacy/

 

The Arab Slave Trade (another perspective):

 

  'There is nothing nice about being a slave of either Arabs, Europeans, or even Africans. Slavery, mild or otherwise, is a crime against a human being. But it would be historically and morally inaccurate not to cite that there is a serious difference between vassal-ship and chattel-ship.

  'Western Europe not only corrupted the slave/servility systems in Africa, they also caused the Arab slave boom in the 19th century. And most critical is Europe's continuation of the African Holocaust up through colonialism, apartheid, neocolonialism and the current exploitation of Africa's resources. These events are not disconnected, although attempts are made to dichotomize these realities.' 

Excerpt from The Arab Slave Trade. http://www.arabslavetrade.com/

 

The Trans Atlantic Slave Trade (Ghanian perspective):

 

'During the heyday of early European competition, slavery was an accepted social institution, and the slave trade overshadowed all other commercial activities on the West African coast. To be sure, slavery and slave trading were already firmly entrenched in many African societies before their contact with Europe. In most situations, men as well as women captured in local warfare became slaves. In general, however, slaves in African communities were often treated as junior members of the society with specific rights, and many were ultimately absorbed into their masters' families as full members. Given traditional methods of agricultural production in Africa, slavery in Africa was quite different from that which existed in the commercial plantation environments of the New World.'

http://www.ghanaweb.com/GhanaH...tory/slave-trade.php

 

Modern-Day Slavery (Human Trafficking and the Industrial Prison Complex):

 

Mauritania is ranked first as where slavery is the worst, followed by Haiti.

http://www.freetheslaves.net/document.doc?id=34

 

Human Trafficking Facts:

http://www.unglobalcompact.org...HE_FACTS_-_final.pdf

 

The Prison Industrial Complex:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/t...form-of-slavery/8289

And we all know which groups have a disproportionate number of people locked up.

 

There has been some form of slavery in every country. There have been members of every racial group, religious group, and ethnic group who have been guilty of enslaving another human being...in both the past and in the present.

 

Slavery is wrong. Period.

 

Sidebar:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sci...-habits-changed.html

 

I’m listening with a more open ear taking  what I feel is true and leaving out the rest. I like most all  of it. The last idea that whites were created 55 centuries ago, ,alright, let me say it, means  that if we stay in the northern climates we’ll all be white in time to come.  We’ll run out of black people in days to come unless more come here. We could also send whites down to the Equator where, if this works both ways,  they will naturally become black. We can then recycle them back up here.

 

When a person  wants to believe something, they will  find a reason to believe it. No one knows who or what or especially how  the different races of mankind were created.  No one knows that. There is no documentation or proof. That knowledge is sealed by HIM. It is beyond us. The One is the greatest truth. I try to live that although I mostly fail. 

@EarthAndSky

 

Thanks for posting some the those links.  This issue is complicated in part because of identity confusion, conflation and assumptions all on top of geopolitical/imperial &white supremacist ideology.

 

There has been a shift in attitude toward this subject.  From a link you posted:

 

The first location of anything African starts with the re-evaluation of the pedagogy and paradigms. Even the most progressive minds of the African world are still responding to, and framing African history within that 15th century discovery paradigm created at the moment of European conquest.

 

http://www.arabslavetrade.com/

 

 

 

This is something Mahmood Mamdani spoke to during a lecture at Howard and its one of the most overlooked part of African scholarship even by people who are very sincere in their efforts.

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