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Growing up around three aggressive, independent, educated women I learned how to deal with constructive criticism and use it to my advantage. When my mom or sisters addressed my issues of social etiquette or lack thereof, it may have rubbed me the wrong way at first but over the years I learned to swallow my pride, learn from my mistakes and move on. Eventually the lessons I learned from my family benefited and is still of great benefit today. I've always tried to be critical of myself and maintain self-motivation regardless of who was failing or succeeding around me. I'm not saying that I'm a model citizen that has never done wrong and always done the right thing, but the sound home training I received has helped me to overcome many obstacles and accomplish many goals. Unfortunately, many blacks haven't had this fortunate experience or at least they don't act like they have.

A few weeks ago Henry Louis Gates Jr. spoke at the Aspen Institute in Washington on such issues as teen pregnancy, criminal activity and a growing disinterest in education among blacks. What I find to be disturbing is how black people can collectively criticize and dis-own people like Condolezza Rice, Colin Powell and Martin Luther King. It's absurd how blacks can call Condolezza and Colin house slaves and Martin Luther King a ho. However, the same black collective would be defensive to the point of violence if anyone so much as whispers negatively about people like Tupac Shakur, The Notorious B.I.G., 50 cent or Ludacris.

Before some of you start spitting negative comments and jumping to conclusions about me being bourgie or out of touch --which I know you will anyway--I'm going to let you know that this isn't a literary dump on hip hop artists. This also isn't a display of naïve support or allegiance to our black leaders. The point that is being made here is that we as black people have had the tendency to condone and idolize black people that portray what would be considered negative behavior while we are quick to condemn and oust prominent blacks that would be considered positive role models. Gates stated at the Aspen Institute: "Our leaders need the courage to stand up and say -- behind closed doors and in public -- that we have internalized our own oppression. We are engaging in forms of behavior that are destroying our people."

The problem is too many black people"”more than should be"”are morally, socially and socio-economically irresponsible. Too many believe that it's easier to do wrong than it is to do right. It's easy to play the race card and blame white people for all of the problems facing blacks and resort to the psuedoprestigious practice of hustling, by any means necessary, to get by. It's easy to follow in the footsteps of our failed and miserable relatives and be happy in complacency, poverty, ignorance and mediocrity. It's easy to sell drugs and commit homicidal robberies, abuse and neglect each other.

It's hard to do the right thing; ignore the encompassing social despair, set goals and accomplish them. It's hard to stay on top and maintain a productive, prosperous and fulfilling life. Too many blacks think it's easier to spend a lifetime at or near the bottom of society than putting yourself through 2 to 5 years of higher learning to improve chances of a happier life. Despite the achievements amongst the smaller population of blacks, we as a race have to learn how to empower ourselves. We then should turn to our less fortunate and teach them the tools of prosperity. Until we do so will continue to fall behind and stay at or near the bottom of society.
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Why did you title this, Supporting Black leaders? Condi Rice and Collin Powell are not Black leaders, they may be leading Blacks but they are not Black leaders. MLK was definetly a leader of the people and any critical analysis of his life is not an attempt to destroy him or his reputation. On ther other hand Condi and Collin have served the goals of the imperialist just fine and do not have any redeming qualities as it relate to helping Black folk in the way MLK did, thus mentioning MLK in the same sentence as these two clowns is to do to MLK what you are claiming others are doing to him when they speak about his womanizing.

As far as the hiphop artist, those who get defensive in regards to them, probably could not tell you much about Western imperialism and the fall out from it, so in their eyes these rap stars are bigger than life but none of those people post on this forum.
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Why did you title this, Supporting Black leaders? Condi Rice and Collin Powell are not Black leaders, they may be leading Blacks but they are not Black leaders.


I titled this discussion, "Supporting Black Leaders" not because I think Condi and Colin are black leaders--my reason for using the title is simply because it's catches the eye. I hate taking the time to come up with a title for a discussion only to have the format of websiste I'm posting to cut it off.

"Supporting Leading Black People" would have been a much better title but I would have had to cut my eyeballs out to see, "Supporting Leadin....."

I agree with you, Faheem, neither Condi nor Colin are 'leaders' in an afrocultural sense, however, you can't overlook Colin's military career, no matter how much of a 'house nigger,' as Harry Belafonte so shrewdly put it, Colin is percieved to be.

Which reminds me (pausing to insert like my mentor, Dr. Dyson, hee hee), Michael Dyson did point out that Belafonte was bold in the purpose of attacking Powell but, Belafonte, can hardly say anything. The once civil rights activist, himself, Harry Belafonte, divorced his first wife, a physician, for a white woman. Now, if that isn't inordinately considered being a 'house nigger,' then, I don't know what the hell is.

The point is, Colin and Condi are in very precarious positions. I wonder how you would handle being appointed to such a position as Colin and Condi? I'm sure they both went into those positions fully aware of how they would be percieved by black America, nevertheless, they did so. Whatever their personal reasons were for making the career advancements they made, they are still black pioneers.

There was a time when Booker T. Washington was considered a sellout, by the peers of his era, for his visionary ways but he was a pioneer nonetheless. It's in times like these that we need positive black role models--look up to them not necessarily for the decisions they've made in the current positions they hold but their struggle to get to the point were they would be eligible for those positions.

I question Condi's and Colin's poor decisions, particularly colin, for the mistakes he made while under Reagan but that's another story, and we all know Condi's track record, nevertheless, I still look up to them for the accomplishments they have made.

Speaking of Western Imperialism, as you probably already know, it was interesting to find out, a few years ago, that, indeed, the first slave owners or, if you want to get technical, endentured slave owners, as well as the first land owners were black.

As a matter of fact, blacks were begining to own endentured slaves and aquire land and a rate much greater than our Imperialist counterparts, which is why they devised a means to circumvent endentured slavery, rob the first black owners of their land and holdings and begin what is known as slavery--I'm rambling but I'm sure you are aware of this little piece of historical trivia.
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Originally posted by IRONHORSE:

The point is, Colin and Condi are in very precarious positions.
On that, to some extent, we may possibly agree. But that doesn't say a whole lot for the rest of your point...

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I wonder how you would handle being appointed to such a position as Colin and Condi? I'm sure they both went into those positions fully aware of how they would be percieved by black America, nevertheless, they did so. Whatever their personal reasons were for making the career advancements they made, they are still black pioneers.
They have earned the perceptions people have of them. PERIOD!

Sure there are many expectations. Perhaps even a lot of unrealistic expectations. Nevertheless, ultimately the way they are perceived has everything to do with the stances they have made especially in situations when they could have been way more resolute if they are at all to be respected for any other than just having Black skin.

In fact, they would be Role Models, or Pioneers as you say, worthy of great consideration/appreciation if their stances were grounded firmly within the midst of the Black Political Consensus.

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There was a time when Booker T. Washington was considered a sellout, by the peers of his era, for his visionary ways but he was a pioneer nonetheless.
And neither Condi nor Colin can hold Booker T's jock. If only the Condi's and Colin's of the world could produce half the results, however problematic in terms of the overall socio-political dynamics, then we could actually have something tangible by which to actually respect them... you know, other than their skin color and individual achievements.

Black skin regardless to power or prestige held by an individual (who is "Black") is no automatic grant for "support". If we are going to support someone we will support them for what they can do with the positions they hold other than the fact they hold them.

We can appreciate and acknowledge their accomplishments but our support for them, for those of us who are focused on SUBSTANCE -- i.e. things tangible and productive to our collective cause -- stops at the point to where they choose to not avail themselves towards those ends.

Support is like respect. It is earned. Black skin even with "accomplishments" is no automatic pass for that.

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Speaking of Western Imperialism, as you probably already know, it was interesting to find out, a few years ago, that, indeed, the first slave owners or, if you want to get technical, endentured slave owners, as well as the first land owners were black.
Produce your evidence of this Black First...

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It's in times like these that we need positive black role models--look up to them not necessarily for the decisions they've made in the current positions they hold but their struggle to get to the point were they would be eligible for those positions.
This is an unprincipled, VALUE-less position. There are accomplished African-Americans who take a stand and let the chips fall where they may. They are worthy of respect and support.

Again, we can and do appreciate Condi's and Colin's achievements and the extent to which they are "pioneers" (something debatable in terms of overall meaning and import) but none of that is reason to divorce ourselves from reality and our critical faculties just to make sure they or people who esteem them feel like we give them enough credit.

Credit for what I don't know. To use the word Leader/Leading... (any way you want)... requires us to assess where they are leading and exact what are they a leader of.

Faheem was right. You should never put MLK in the same breath or sentence. And I say the same for Booker T. As for MLK, he said: IT WAS THE PEOPLE WHO MOVED THE LEADERS.

Any ideas with an intent, conscious or not, of reversing that natural order is automatically suspect. (Hee Hee) When leaders are not in harmony with those they are suppose to represent or lead then, by definition, they are not leaders in the true sense of the word. Definitely not in the MLK sense and, perhaps, hardly even close to Booker T. either.

Booker T's program, for one, wasn't based on WHITE/Western "individualism".
Wow, Nmaginate, I didn't know you weren't aware of this 'black first.' Damn, now I'm going to have to look through all of my damn graduate notes just to find the name of the black man and black woman that owned the first endentured slaves, as well as find the copy of the journal my african american studies professor copied for us to study during the course of the work--for now, you're just going to have to take my word for it.

By the way, before you go on about not believing everything you read, I don't completely subscribe to that philosophy--it's what has many black people in the predicament they're in now--complacent, uneducated, unemployed, and non-viable.

As for the rest of your response, though I respect your views and opinions, comparing the pioneers of yesteryear to the pioneers of today is plain preposterous. Just because I braught up someone's name from the past doesn't mean I'm comparing them to people of today, and it would be foolish to do so.

Changing times, politics, culture and society will never allow any more MLK's, Malcolm X's, Thurgood Marshalls, Booker T. Washingtons, George Washington Carvers, or any of the like, nevertheless, we have to make due with what we have--uplift those that we do have and encourage the ones that are up and coming. If we judged our leading blacks by their shortcomings and mistakes, MANY of our nations leading black people wouldn't have a leg to stand on, so I don't share your same perspective--MANY of our contemporary leaders cannot hold a candle to their predecessors.

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There are accomplished African-Americans who take a stand and let the chips fall where they may. They are worthy of respect and support.


Does that mean that because an accomplished african american doesn't perform to a certain afrocultural standard they are worthless to us as black people? Man, understand I'm not disagreeing with you in regards to Condi and Colin but they are there nontheless. You want to beat up on somebody, beat up on the brother in Georgia that broke free from the balif, shot and killed two deputies and killed a retired CIA operative--beat up on the sister that ran over a man that had a wife and two children because she was high on crack but have at least some compassion for people like Condi and Colin--okay, you can shit all over Clarence Thomas or Al Sharpton, HA HA HA HA.... but I have at least a little respect for the former.
quote:
Originally posted by IRONHORSE:

...for now, you're just going to have to take my word for it.
For now, I take your mentioning of such curious things, fact or not, as just that - curious...

quote:
By the way, before you go on about not believing everything you read...
BTW, my comments weren't directed towards what you subscribe to, in whole or in part per se. I responded to what you wrote. You should do likewise without the ridiculous assumption about what I may be ready to "go on about not believing".

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Just because I braught up someone's name from the past doesn't mean I'm comparing them to people of today, and it would be foolish to do so.
Yet and still you did bring them up in the same sentence. Your exact words implying a comparison was:
    What I find to be disturbing is how black people can collectively criticize and dis-own people like Condolezza Rice, Colin Powell and Martin Luther King.
In no wise is MLK collectively "disowned" in any respect like either Condi or Colin. Arguably, a majority of Blacks "disown" Condi and Colin. The majority of Black people embrace, cherish and claim MLK and esteem him in the highest and he gets respect even from those critical of him, his politics, etc.

So you careless statement is problematic even without any mention of a comparison. It was WRONG by definition in terms of what you tried to assert about MLK.

And this issue with Collective Criticism seems to be steeped in a less than flattering "predicament".

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...so I don't share your same perspective--MANY of our contemporary leaders cannot hold a candle to their predecessors.
And you never will "share" my perspective when you misrepresent it. You brought up our forebearers by way of comparing them to those amongst us today. That's undeniable.

You mention Booker T specifically to mention how he was considered by some to be a "sell-out". And your reason for doing that? Was it not to draw a comparison or to suggest how, since you labeled Booker T as a "visionary", these contemporary "pioneers" may also be "visionaries" in their own time?

See... the only one lost on what time and context we're talking about is you. That is, you conveniently hope you can act like somehow there is some confusion on that. Again, I addressed what you said. It's obvious you're unprepared to support your position seeing as how you haven't dealt with the crux of what I said.

First I said:
If only the Condi's and Colin's of the world could produce half the results, however problematic in terms of the overall socio-political dynamics, then we could actually have something tangible by which to actually respect them... you know, other than their skin color and individual achievements.

Hmmm... Seems as if I wasn't concerned about either Colin or Condi measuring up to Booker T, etc. I said if they would PRODUCE half as much in terms of results, by whatever measure that translate to in our life and times... THEN... then we would have reason to support them.

Then I said:
Black skin regardless to power or prestige held by an individual (who is "Black") is no automatic grant for "support". If we are going to support someone we will support them for what they can do with the positions they hold other than the fact they hold them.

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Does that mean that because an accomplished african american doesn't perform to a certain afrocultural standard they are worthless to us as black people?
C'mon DEBRA 'The Unprepared'...

The criteria I've set is one based upon RESULTS. I've acknowledged BOTH MLK and Booker T. because of results not ideology. Philosophically, ideologically neither of them fall squarely within the mine.

But if just being "Black" and having a position -- rising to one, appointed or otherwise -- is your measure of a "standard" then, of course, me daring to think of predicating who and what we call "Leading" or "Leadership" on RESULTS and being RESPONSIVE to those to be "lead" is really a very arbitrary standard. I can see that... lol

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Man, understand I'm not disagreeing with you in regards to Condi and Colin but they are there nontheless.
WTF is that?? "They are there nonetheless"...

What? They get some automatic BLACK SKIN PRIVILEGE or something?

What are you talking about?

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...at least some compassion for people like Condi and Colin... I have at least a little respect for the former.
Respect based on what?

Where have I been disrespectful?
Where have I "beat up" on Condi or Colin?

Again, I've only responded to your poorly presented ideas here. Further, I have not suggested Condi or Colin are "worthless". I've taken issue with your mindless thesis. PERIOD.

I've said we can and do appreciate and acknowledge their accomplishments. But when it comes to talking about who are our Leaders or Leading figures, those whom we exhalt as Role Models in that CONTEXT (its your title by whatever spin you want to put on the word LEAD) then there is a very demanding standard and just being Black and in a position doesn't fit that bill. PERIOD.

Again, this is about RESULTS and production and leaders/leading figures being RESPONSIVE. It is upon that and those figures willingness to take a stand and stand with their people, the Political Consensus and/or what's demonstrably in the best interest of their people that respect is given.

There is no Respect Pass given unconditionally to someone just because they are BLACK. So, its up to you to demonstrate what Condi and Colin have done as BLACK Leaders or Leading Blacks (and actually demonstrate what they are "leading" us in) to get the respect you think they deserve.

Again, the respect they get is the respect they've earned. You're trying to overstate their "worth" and value. Maybe you're enchanted by Black First without Black Focus or Black Collective Forward Movement. But the day of looking at Black First as if they represent some great accomplishments, symbolic of more than what the achievement actually amounts to, is over just like the foregone eras our predecessors.

Change with the times, brother... Instead talking in the sense of Black First by individuals, as Leonard Pitts Jr. would say, let's talk about Black LAST... and I say that with respect to collective things.

Change with the times, brother...

As for who to beat up on... NO ONE, I MEAN NO ONE is beyond reproach. And as the saying goes: To Whom Much Is Given Much Is Expected.

Again, you seem to want to reverse the way things should be out of some regard for Debra-esque "SAFE SPACE" politics.

Let's see you take the Michael Dyson CHALLENGE:
Name Five Things The Black Middle Class or Ruling Elite Need To Get Straight and how they(us) must be SELF-CRITICAL.

Why you want somebody else to be "beat up on"?
I don't see anyone here promoting the brother from the court scenario as being someone to esteem on false pretenses. I don't see a shortage of criticisms when it comes to brothers like that either.

So let's be real...
Is it really a struggle if Massa has designated you a "Chosen One" and you accept the position? Shuckin and jivin seems to be the quickest, most pain-free way of getting to "the top" in America.

This article speaks to Blacks being the largest slave owners and offers statistics. A Debate Professor told me once "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics." Those joints frequently read whatever you want them to. I haven't had a chance to read it in depth, but one look at the bibliography gives me pause. If you specifically set out to prove that Blacks were the largest and first slave owners and only look at sources that agree with you, you can hardly call your findings objective.
Frenchy, the thing to me more than anything, beside the typical "take my word for it" BS... is exactly how any of that is relevant here.

IMO, anyone willing to assert something they almost specifically express as something "interesting" or something unknown or somehow contrary to what is believed or contrary to what has been mention (Western Imperialism)... who isn't just as quick and willing to produce the supporting information that not only establishes what they've suggested but actually qualifies it and put it in an actual context... someone like that is by definition suspect.

As Faheem suggested, we don't get down like that here. IRONHORSE, of course, has an opportunity to come forth with his information and after that, you know, like actually show how his "ramble" is relevant to the topic. But, it goes without saying, there have been so many who have traveled that route before but never show up when it comes time to substantiate what they say or when pushed they produce 'questionable' sources.

So, of course, IRONHORSE would be quick to say "take my word for it" as if he's established some credibility. Oh but he thinks respect and credibility should be given out on GP...

My bad... lol tongue
quote:
Originally posted by Frenchy:
Is it really a struggle if Massa has designated you a "Chosen One" and you accept the position? Shuckin and jivin seems to be the quickest, most pain-free way of getting to "the top" in America.

This article speaks to Blacks being the largest slave owners and offers statistics. A Debate Professor told me once "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics." Those joints frequently read whatever you want them to. I haven't had a chance to read it in depth, but one look at the bibliography gives me pause. If you specifically set out to prove that Blacks were the largest and first slave owners and only look at sources that agree with you, you can hardly call your findings objective.


....and the fact that Black people did in fact own slaves, both in the U.S., and in Africa, will make it exceedingly impossible to hold Corporate Caucasian America responsible for the entire payment of reparations for the atrocities of slavery.

....Heck, considering the reality that some of the Black middle-class in foster care providers, social workers, probation officers, and/or other members of the Black community have contributed to the illegal break up of law abiding Black families for profit in contemporary times, would lead anyone of rational mind to believe, that what is true today, was also true back in the day, in that some Black people continue to sell each other out for a few shiny trinkets of silver.

Can't convince me, that the enslavement of Black people by Black people within the U.S., and in Africa, did not exist, considering the reality of what goes on in contemporary times.

Heck, the illegal and unwarranted break-up of the traditional Black family structure for profit was supposed to have ended with the abolishment of slavery, and here you have our own elected leadership, foster care providers, social workers, probation officers, and/or other individuals from within our own community promoting this treasonous activity!

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

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quote:
Originally posted by Michael:
quote:
Originally posted by Frenchy:
Is it really a struggle if Massa has designated you a "Chosen One" and you accept the position? Shuckin and jivin seems to be the quickest, most pain-free way of getting to "the top" in America.

This article speaks to Blacks being the largest slave owners and offers statistics. A Debate Professor told me once "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics." Those joints frequently read whatever you want them to. I haven't had a chance to read it in depth, but one look at the bibliography gives me pause. If you specifically set out to prove that Blacks were the largest and first slave owners and only look at sources that agree with you, you can hardly call your findings objective.


....and the fact that Black people did in fact own slaves, both in the U.S., and in Africa, will make it exceedingly impossible to hold Corporate Caucasian America responsible for the entire payment of reparations for the atrocities of slavery.

....Heck, considering the reality that some of the Black middle-class in foster care providers, social workers, probation officers, and/or other members of the Black community have contributed to the illegal break up of law abiding Black families for profit in contemporary times, would lead anyone of rational mind to believe, that what is true today, was also true back in the day, in that some Black people continue to sell each other out for a few shiny trinkets of silver.

Can't convince me, that the enslavement of Black people by Black people within the U.S., and in Africa, did not exist, considering the reality of what goes on in contemporary times.

Heck, the illegal and unwarranted break-up of the traditional Black family structure for profit was supposed to have ended with the abolishment of slavery, and here you have our own elected leadership, foster care providers, social workers, probation officers, and/or other individuals from within our own community promoting this treasonous activity!

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton


Michael, black slaveowners didn't make laws saying that blacks were the lowest of the low and should be held, by law of man and God, in continual, generational lifetime bondage. How can you own someone that's inferior by law, if you're also considered inferior? Plus, white slaveowners were able to enslave that black slaveowner and commandeer his servants.
Nmaginate, the only bullshit I see in this forum is the dump truck full of it in your obnoxious, snobbish, conceited, big-headed, obtuse responses.

Who the hell are you and who died and left you lectern of the universe? YOU AIN'T NOBODY! You want proof of the fact that a black man was one of the first endentured slave owners, that not only owned blacks, but owned white endentured slaves--as a means to pay for their passage from England to America--I would have taken the time to copy and paste the proof but since you want to be an asshole about it, find it your damn self--take a chill pill and sit down. This catty, bitchy, malicious, malignent way you've interacted is unecessary, uncalled for, and a blatant display of your obvious inferiority complex you regretably possess.

You want to get real--let's get real then. Fuck what you think the black middle class needs to do--lets take a more accountable approach. What have YOU done to getting things straight? What have YOU done in being self-critical? What have YOU done in order to be a part of the solution instead of being part of the problem in empowering and uplifting [us] black people?

Let me just tell you what I've done--I've foregown my original flourishing career as a contracting graphic designer to become an educater in various inner city public schools in two different states--becoming an influential force in black children's lives while educating them in the process.

I've volunteered hundreds of hours to helping various fledgling afrocentric, for non-profit organisations stay alive, I've mentored at-risk children from ages 5-18 on every social issue that is facing them, I've mentored college students, from freshmen to seniors, in various HBCU's on social etiquette, financial responsibility and empowerment, interpersonal relationships, safe sex, networking, interviewing skills, preparing for life after college...the list of selfless acts accomplishments goes on, and all of these things were done, free of charge, on my personal time.

Nmaginate, can you attest to having touched young black minds--be approached by black youth that you have influenced and have them to say thank you for making a difference in their lives? Can you attest to influencing young black youth to not only attend college but persue a degree in the same profession as yourself?

You see, I could have been like many of the typical black middle to upper middle class society--achieve success, move forward and close the door of opportunity behind me and never look back but I didn't--I chose to give back to the community in as many ways as humanly possible.

And as for you, Frenchy:

quote:
Is it really a struggle if Massa has designated you a "Chosen One" and you accept the position? Shuckin and jivin seems to be the quickest, most pain-free way of getting to "the top" in America.


When it comes to the political arena, everyone, including blacks has had to "shuck and jive" their way to the top. Thurgood Marshall, the man that can quite arguably be considered single-handedly abolishing Jim Crow laws, shucked and jived his way to the top--he was a grand ass-licker as he pawned, hob nobbed, and conned his way around crucial white lawyers, judges, politicians and even the president of United States in the act of having McArthur removed from power in order that the army be de-segregated. Oh, and if you want proof, Nmaginate, go march your self-righteous ass over to a bookstore and pick up Thurgood Marshall's autobiography.

You want to show me how you do things in AfricanAmerica.org? Fuck that--some of you self-righteous negroes, suffering from dellusions of grandeur, need a reality check--thinking that someone has to have achieved a certain acceptable degree of blackness for you to deem them worthy of acceptance and support. It's that back-biting, crab-hearted mentality that is holding us back as a people today while other races of people are passing us by.
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Again, this is about RESULTS and production and leaders/leading figures being RESPONSIVE. It is upon that and those figures willingness to take a stand and stand with their people, the Political Consensus and/or what's demonstrably in the best interest of their people that respect is given.



Colin, Clarence, and Condi have one thing in commom. They have strayed away from the uniqueness of our political consensus and struggle. They have replaced this inherent uniqueness with the White agenda in spite of the Black agenda. They promote self-hate and a strict adherence to political dress-up advocating imperialist views and white supremacist beliefs.

This is particularily sickening because they are extremely intelligent individuals. This supports the view that white intelligence is the right intelligence. Black thought is oppressed by our own, that's why they are such disappointments.
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some of you self-righteous negroes, suffering from dellusions of grandeur, need a reality check--thinking that someone has to have achieved a certain acceptable degree of blackness for you to deem them worthy of acceptance and support.
Umm... Thanks for commenting with your ill-conceived, pre-conceived notions.

The thing I expected from you is to simply support what you said and show how it was relevant to the topic (i.e. your mention of Black as first slave owners, etc.). Instead of doing that, you went off on the deep end. But if asking, expecting, requiring you to support something you said is "back-biting" then okay! I'm guilty.

Yes, it's my Delusion Of Grandeur.

quote:
Oh, and if you want proof, Nmaginate...
All of that over a simple request to support your statement and stipulate to its relevance. This is too damn funny.

IRONHORSE, I didn't ask you about Thurgood Marshall... Nor have I stipulated that you have to some "Degree Of Blackness" you must past or acquire. It's really not that hard, IRONHORSE... What happened to:

Wow, Nmaginate, I didn't know you weren't aware of this 'black first.'

Instead of "wow-ing" me with information to support what you said, again, you chose to go off the deep... sck
First of all, Nmaginate, your post from 09:56 last night was amazing. You usually do get pretty surgical in breaking things down, but this one really brought it. (I'm sure it helps that, for once, I agree with it 100%, but still... Wink )

Second, Frenchy, how much do you want to bet that almost all of these free "blacks" who owned slaves were, on average, 99.99% white anyway? Remember, the one drop rule wasn't a state of mind back then; it was law. And just so you know, the same thing goes for when these racist revisionsists argue that there were "white" slaves; they may have been visually white, but most of these people had a black ancestor, and that's why they were slaves. So these people were "exceptions that prove the rule," which means that it's pointless for anyone to try and use their examples for the purpose of attempting to de-racialize enslavement.

Finally, Ironhorse... I don't know where you get the idea that you can make what you claim are factual statements, and then refuse a simple request for some information in support of it. All of these other directions you're trying to go off in do nothing to move anybody to accept what you say about the first slaveowners, or anything else. The way you would win is by hitting us with a link that credibly supports your assertion. One hint as to a possible reason you haven't done so is that my own Google search turned up nothing. Oh well...



Mad Mad (... Dude sat up here putting MLK in the same category as Condy Rice...) Mad Mad
quote:
Originally posted by IRONHORSE:
Nmaginate, first of all, stop side-stepping the fact that you resorted to acting niggerish, yeah, I said it, NIGGERISH, instead of interacting with me, from the get go, in an objective, open-minded, intellectual manner.

Secondly, you haven't answered the challenge you gave me--what have YOU done to make a change in black society?


Ironhorse, what does it mean to act niggerish? Have you in your ignorance equated being a "nigger" to a particular behavior that you think is fundamentally sound? I would imagine you think by redefining "nigger" to be a particular behavior you believe you remove yourself out of the "Nigger catergory while throwing everyone else in it? OK.

Secondly, while those things you claim to have done if you have actually done them should be applauded, they are in no way verifiable by anyone on this forum thus what use do they serve except to serve as a means of making you appear to be something you very well may not. Furthermore if Nmaginate, myself or anyone on this forum listed various things we have done and continue to do, how would you verify the validity of those things or would you then say, well because I did one more thing than you I am better than you? No one here cares what you do and truthfully those who do work on behalf of our people feel no need to brag about it yet alone try and use it to lift one self up in the eyes of others.

From several of your post it appear that you have a problem with the men and women on this forum mainly as I can see it because we do not subscribe to the elitist attitude you have which you interpret as us thinking we are better than you. Most of us on this forum have gotten to know one another over the years through are disagreements and our agreements on this forum and other forums, thus for a Johnny come lately like yourself to come on the scene and try to tell us about who we are and then try to show us up with all the so call things you have done is laughable. If there is anyone suffering from delusions of grandeur on this forum it is you and using profanity does not make your point any more valid, in fact it lessens its validity.
Some of us have jobs, not to mention a life, and don't have the time to donate to arguing with obtuse, obnoxious people that are self-proclaimed, in the know of afroculturalism.

quote:
IRONHORSE, I didn't ask you about Thurgood Marshall...


You're right, Nmaginate, in your beligerent eagerness to prove you can express yourself,you imposed yourself in a part of the conversation that was entended for Frenchy.

I have such disdain for some of you people--you act EXACTLY like high school children--you want to have the balls to show your ass but you whine and cry at the unwelcoming response to your childish actions. Furthermore, it is to laugh at how you support and back each other up, like a gang of hoodrat kids when someone challenges you for your disrespectful, disorderly actions.

Who gives a damn if you expressed yourself eloquently if the content of your expression was biased and self-serving? Most of you defeat the purpose of what you post in these discussions because you seek to impose your own personal views on people that you don't think subscribe to your precise beliefs.

What kills me about you people is you take this site TOO SERIOUSLY. Sure, it's fine if you have evidence, a direct link, supporting what you've said but if a person DOESN'T have the evidence doesn't make what he or she said any less relevent. I've written many dissertations, grants, proposals, curriculums and presentations--I am WELL aware of how to quote and provide evidence from sources, resources, create bibliographies, YADDA, YADDA, YADDA.

I don't have anything to prove to you--if I do have evidence to back up my comments, fine--if I don't have link to support what I said then TOUGH SHIT--you just going to have to suck it up and move on but it most DEFINATELY doesn't make you a better person if you can support your information with links and other various sources.

Some of you idiots remind me of another idiot that attendeda book signing at a bookstore in Maryland where, Henry Louis Gates Jr. appeared to present his encyclopedia africana collection. Of all the hard work he and his constituents invested into putting such a valuable source of information together, thousands of otherwise unknown but influential blacks in American history, this one idiot stood up and expressed his dissappointment because her great great grandaddy, Cyrus Pookie Jones, wasn't mentioned in the book. Pure ignorance.
Faheem, some of you people have this rude habit of being too eager to show how smart you are instead of just simply asking for clarification, and engaging in productive conversation--you can't just ask for clarification or insert an opposing opinion, you have to resort to using indirectly snide, rude, obnoxious, obtuse, close-minded, crab-hearted comments and statements. Some of you employ this sly, underhanded method of trying to belittle someone while getting your point across--in my opinion, that is being niggerish.

It's not that deep--when I respond to people's discussions I don't jump into snap judgments, making long, superfluous statements, laiden with quotes, about what I believe is right and wrong. I simply respond with an opinion or advice and move on. Since the first day I've been in here, some of you people have been trying to enforce on me how you do things in africanamerica.org

This is a free site--people are free to join, therefore they have the freedom to express themselves on any level they feel is necessary. Who are you people to tell me or anyone else that is new to this site otherwise? And you wonder why half of these discussions are six months to a year old--you wonder why out of over 800 members, no more than six or seven people are online at a time--you wonder why, out of an average of 150 views, only an average of 35 people bother to post (give or take the repeated responses and viewings)--it's because they don't want to be ridiculed, harrassed, and judged for posting a personal opinion.

Some people would like to take pleasure in posting a thought, an opinion, a discussion that may go against the grain and not be attacked and overanalyzed for doing so. For this site to have such a significant number of intelligent people, this is one of the most inhospitable sites I've ever joined. Of course I know some of you are eager to respond by saying, "If you don't like this site then stop whining and leave." Nah, that would be too easy. I'll just stick around and grow on you.
quote:
Originally posted by IRONHORSE:
Faheem, some of you people have this rude habit of being too eager to show how smart you are instead of just simply asking for clarification, and engaging in productive conversation--you can't just ask for clarification or insert an opposing opinion, you have to resort to using indirectly snide, rude, obnoxious, obtuse, close-minded, crab-hearted comments and statements. Some of you employ this sly, underhanded method of trying to belittle someone while getting your point across--in my opinion, that is being niggerish.

It's not that deep--when I respond to people's discussions I don't jump into snap judgments, making long, superfluous statements, laiden with quotes, about what I believe is right and wrong. I simply respond with an opinion or advice and move on. Since the first day I've been in here, some of you people have been trying to enforce on me how you do things in africanamerica.org

This is a free site--people are free to join, therefore they have the freedom to express themselves on any level they feel is necessary. Who are you people to tell me or anyone else that is new to this site otherwise? And you wonder why half of these discussions are six months to a year old--you wonder why out of over 800 members, no more than six or seven people are online at a time--you wonder why, out of an average of 150 views, only an average of 35 people bother to post (give or take the repeated responses and viewings)--it's because they don't want to be ridiculed, harrassed, and judged for posting a personal opinion.

Some people would like to take pleasure in posting a thought, an opinion, a discussion that may go against the grain and not be attacked and overanalyzed for doing so. For this site to have such a significant number of intelligent people, this is one of the most inhospitable sites I've ever joined. Of course I know some of you are eager to respond by saying, "If you don't like this site then stop whining and leave." Nah, that would be too easy. I'll just stick around and grow on you.


This is indeed a free site Ironhorse and no one can stop you from posting nor do anyone whish to stop you from posting here. Those of us who have been and continue to be here do not wonder about the things you mentioned, we know why they are such, thus that only leaves you to wonder. It is funny how you throw out several adjectives to describe one act and then accuse us of trying to show how smart we are. The only person who has mentioned or bothered to post their resume of work is you, but we are being accused of showing off.

Those who have found aa.org inhospitable are mainly those who can not hold their own on this forum for the exact reason that you stated, this site has a significant number of intelligent men and women thus I know from being here for a few years that many of those whom have registered never post because they are afraid to have their B.S. put to shame. You listed all the things you do not do, have you taken the time to actually look at what you are doing that have brought about the responses your writtings have received?
quote:
What kills me about you people is you take this site TOO SERIOUSLY. Sure, it's fine if you have evidence, a direct link, supporting what you've said but if a person DOESN'T have the evidence doesn't make what he or she said any less relevent. I've written many dissertations, grants, proposals, curriculums and presentations--I am WELL aware of how to quote and provide evidence from sources, resources, create bibliographies, YADDA, YADDA, YADDA.



If we don't take each other seriously, and hold eachother accountable for social, dogmatic misconceptions, then black thought will diminish, while "white is right" will prevail.

We have to take it seriously. Iron, if you think you've been blasted, you better do some further reading on this site. You haven't taken have the beatings I have taken. You're a Christian, you know if you spare the rod you spoil the child. Well this is a community of Intelligent elders whom have every right to impart their wisdom. A lot of these people have a list of credentials that are astounding. Psychologist, Phd's of all sorts, Ministers, Business professionals and many more prestigous titles. They don't have time for mundane discussions where everyone agrees with everything each has to say. It's about growth. It's about understanding. Know your role man. Live and learn, for I promise that they have much to offer. Nmaginates taken me over his knee several times already. I've grown to respect that. You will too. Or you'll fizzle and fade into your own understanding unable to substantiate anything that you feel strongly about.
First of all, Faheem, I didn't post my resume--that sample list of my accomplishments as a response to Nmaginate's challenge:

"Name Five Things The Black Middle Class or Ruling Elite Need To Get Straight and how they(us) must be SELF-CRITICAL."

Faheem, are you serious? Hold their own? Please! I can't speak for others but I can most definately hold my own in various conversations. The simple fact is I don't have the TIME to donate to go into superfluous detail on every single subject--quote and analyze every word, every statement, every comment made. Furthermore, I don't find it to be necessary especially sense no one is getting a blue ribbon or a cash reward for their participation on this site.

I just came here to share ideas, read discussions, post a few discussions of my own, enlighten and be enlightened and be entertained, enjoy myself, however, some of you take this so seriously you would think some of these people would get a nose bleed at reading someone's discussion that didn't coincide with their own.

Some people just don't want to be bothered--I, for one, don't agree with all this garbage of machine gun quoting--it breaks up the continuity of the conversation. It disrupts the flow of the thought process being followed, in my opinion.

Damn, I'm just as well-read, informed and educated, if not more, as most of the people on this site but I'm not going to waste my time producing discussions and responses on an expository level--that's too much damn work--I have work, REAL work, that I get paid for to write on and about. I don't need to come here and write on that level.

You people are just going to have to understand that others are not going to share your same views on the manner in which they chose to express themselves and they shouldn't be looked down upon or ostracized for doing so.
quote:
Damn, I'm just as well-read, informed and educated, if not more, as most of the people on this site but I'm not going to waste my time producing discussions and responses on an expository level--that's too much damn work--I have work, REAL work, that I get paid for to write on and about. I don't need to come here and write on that level.



NO ONE IS FORCING YOU TOO
This is exactly what I'm talking about--I don't need to be put over anyone's knee and I don't need anyone's help, least of all, anyone on this site, on expressing myself, expounding on certain subjects or whatever the case may be.

If I don't know something I will ask. I was raised once and I don't need to be raised again. If anyone doesn't like what I have to say, they can simply ignore it--just because they're are old heads on this site doesn't mean they're obligated to show newcomers 'the light.'

Maybe some of you need that type of guidance but I don't. Of course, I always welcome anyone's opinions, suggestions and different perspectives but to take it upon yourself to teach someone a lesson--to show them how you do things at africanamerica.org is rather snobbish. To tell someone what they're writing is bullshit is also rather rude and arrogant.

I prefer to lead by example--when I read someone's discussion, I prefer to comment on what the topic is, not jump conclusions and give them my idea of what I think their personality is (From your topic I've determined you're arrogant--that's obsurd) or whether what they said was worthy of reading or not. I may agree or disagree with someone's opinions--I may even offer advice or express my difference in opinion but I'm not going to tell someone they were wrong or tell them to prove a statement they made with a direct link to the source where they got their information from.

If that is how a person chooses to express him or herself, fine, but I wouldn't impose that belief on someone else.
A friend tells you when you have bad breath. A friend tells you when you have a piece of food stuck in your teeth. You don't know, and you don't ask, but they tell you anyway. Do you jump down there throat for trying to help you, by revealing things to you that you are unaware of, that may cause you embarrasment? And don't say you don't need help, because that is still to be determined.
If you find it difficult and too much work to produce disucssions and responses on an "expository level" then you are on the wrong forum because that is how we get down around here and we do it because the subjects that we discuss have different levels of complexities that can not be covered in a simple few words nor does it do the subject a favor by not espounding as best we can on it.

Most if not all the posters here are professionals just like yourself, we have jobs that we get paid to do as well and yet we still see the necessity in being clear on issues that have varying degrees of complexities. If you think you should get paid to discuss issues and the concerns of our people on an "expository level" and you think it is a waste of time to do it in this medium than you have come to wrong place. The problem with most Black forums is that they do not have discussion and debates that cover the complexities of any one issue and try to sum it up with a few sly remarks that does no one a favor and actually does our people a disservice.
So, it finally comes out--you finally admit it, Faheem, "This is how we do things..." Well then, Faheem, I suggest, in the future, you ignore my discussions or be prepared to recieve my ignorant, ill-concieved responses.

How dare you approach me or anyone else new to this site with such a bourgeiose mentality--This isn't some exclusive, fortune 500 country club--I don't give a damn how you or anyone else does things around here. If I feel the need to respond to a discussion or write a discussion on a certain level, whether it be on an expository or casual level, I damn well will write it how I please. If you or anyone else doesn't like it, then tough shit.

If you want to be in a forum that is so exclusive then you need to create your own site or tell MBM to make a forum specifically for you and your snobbish conspirators. Get used to it--until I lose interest in this site I will log on and participate in ANY forum I see fit, whenever, and however I want.
You kill me, HeruStar. At least you've changed your mode of interaction to be more respectful, nevertheless, I need no one's help. What you and everyone else are failing to understand is I possess the ability, the talent, the educational background to function on any level I choose.

What's cracking me up is the site where I previously came from--I expressed myself in a much lower-class, though still intelligent, manner, which most certainly wouldn't have been accepted here. Maybe I'll get ghetto up in here one day, Heheheheh...

I do recall asking for help on a topic regarding rape insurance in South Africa--Faheem provided the info I asked for and I appreciated it. See, THAT'S what I'm talking about--give help where help is asked for and needed, not impose yourself upon someone. It didn't kill Faheem to offer that piece of information--he posted what I asked for and moved on. Speaking generally, if you want to embody intellectualism you're going to have to also exercise some diplomacy, respect, and consideration in doing so.
You are mistaken Ironhorse, we did not approach you about anything, it is you who spoke to the manner in which your responses are ctitiqued but somehow you have turned that around and now are pontificating as if we accused you of responding in one way or another. Look back over what you have written and you will find it was you who first spoke to how one responds and writes and then you wrote about how you don't write a certain way unless you are getting paid to do so. The only form of excusivity around here is the kind you have created by trying to catergorize the men and women on this forum as being this or that. Did you forget what I said about profanity?
quote:
Originally posted by IRONHORSE:
...I don't give a damn how you or anyone else does things around here. If I feel the need to respond to a discussion or write a discussion on a certain level, whether it be on an expository or casual level, I damn well will write it how I please. If you or anyone else doesn't like it, then tough shit...
TRANSLATION: I can't defend what I say, because I am making it up off the top of my head. Therefore, when challenged, I will continue to bring up some irrelevant bullshit in hopes that you will get tired of it and "move on".
quote:
NO ONE IS FORCING YOU TOO



*Tapping you on your shoulder* Ummm, HeruStar, your buddy, Faheem seems to think otherwise:

"If you find it difficult and too much work to produce disucssions and responses on an "expository level" then you are on the wrong forum because that is how we get down around here...."

Some of y'all crack me the fuck up, especially this part, HeruStar: "If we don't take each other seriously, and hold eachother accountable for social, dogmatic misconceptions, then black thought will diminish...."--speaking of writing on topics as if you're trying to maintain some royal bloodline. Lord have mercy. HA HA HA HA H HAHA HA HA!!!

It's all good though. I applaud you people for your effort to maintain a certain standard in expository writing, however, you can take that pyramid scheme sounding sales pitch to someone else because I'm not buying it. Loosen up--relax, relate and release. I can assure you, I'm much easier to get along with as a friend than as an enemy. Now, psychoanalize that however you want and have a nice day wel
quote:
Originally posted by IRONHORSE:
Some of us have jobs, not to mention a life, and don't have the time to donate to arguing with obtuse, obnoxious people that are self-proclaimed, in the know of afroculturalism.

[QUOTE]IRONHORSE, I didn't ask you about Thurgood Marshall...


You're right, Nmaginate, in your beligerent eagerness to prove you can express yourself,you imposed yourself in a part of the conversation that was entended for Frenchy.

I have such disdain for some of you people--you act EXACTLY like high school children--you want to have the balls to show your ass but you whine and cry at the unwelcoming response to your childish actions. Furthermore, it is to laugh at how you support and back each other up, like a gang of hoodrat kids when someone challenges you for your disrespectful, disorderly actions.

Who gives a damn if you expressed yourself eloquently if the content of your expression was biased and self-serving? Most of you defeat the purpose of what you post in these discussions because you seek to impose your own personal views on people that you don't think subscribe to your precise beliefs.

What kills me about you people is you take this site TOO SERIOUSLY. Sure, it's fine if you have evidence, a direct link, supporting what you've said but if a person DOESN'T have the evidence doesn't make what he or she said any less relevent. I've written many dissertations, grants, proposals, curriculums and presentations--I am WELL aware of how to quote and provide evidence from sources, resources, create bibliographies, YADDA, YADDA, YADDA.

I don't have anything to prove to you--if I do have evidence to back up my comments, fine--if I don't have link to support what I said then TOUGH SHIT--you just going to have to suck it up and move on but it most DEFINATELY doesn't make you a better person if you can support your information with links and other various sources.

Some of you idiots remind me of another idiot that attendeda book signing at a bookstore in Maryland where, Henry Louis Gates Jr. appeared to present his encyclopedia africana collection. Of all the hard work he and his constituents invested into putting such a valuable source of information together, thousands of otherwise unknown but influential blacks in American history, this one idiot stood up and expressed his dissappointment because her great great grandaddy, Cyrus Pookie Jones, wasn't mentioned in the book. Pure ignorance.[/QUOTE

Bro.....If you wrote a dissertation, then you know everything has to be justified with some source of credibility...so this should be small potatoes in terms of supporting what you say....we have a few in here that make facts what they are because they said they were facts......which turned out to be bullshit.......so that is not tough shit when you can not substantiate a point....it is bullschit in itself...nothing personal....just an academic M.O.
Kevin41, How is it that I just expressed knowledge of the criteria of writing a dissertation a few posts ago but you still feel the need to explain it this to me again? bang That's what I'm finding to be condescending--I don't need you to tell me about the criteria for writing a dissertation or anything else of that nature but thank you for trying thanks

When I write a full discussion to the effect of needing to employ an expository or comprehensive format to APA or MLA specifications, I will do so okay? Otherwise, if I'm in the mode of casual conversation, and I happen to have on hand a particular source where it is in easy access to which I can use to quote from, I will do so, otherwise, if I don't, and I speak on it anyway, you're going to have to just grin and bear it or choke and die lol

However, in the case of the first black man that was an endentured slave owner of blacks and whites (which was brought up in casual conversation), not only am I not currently aware of any websites that carry this fact, I'm not going to dig deep in my archives, in the back of my closet, to find the african american culture notes and journals from which I obtained this information to please you people, most definately, not after such an obnoxious response by the person that challenged the notion. Besides, are you or anyone else going to give me a cookie or a blue ribbon for doing so? No.

I don't care if every single member on this site marches up in this forum to teach me a lesson about how to interact on this site, I'm going to continue posting my discussions and responding to other people's discussions in the same casual fashion as I always have. Go ahead, take your best shot, I enjoy the fame and recognition $$

Show me the proof--show me the proof where Time magazine acknowledges this site as a ground-breaking phenomena--show me the proof where is says that this site is on the list of top 100 most successful businesses--show me the proof where the people on this site get compensation for writing in an expository or comprehensive fashion--show me proof where CNN has a correspondant that reports periodically on the heppenings in africanamerica.org.

Show me proof where the discussions in these forums have contributed to decreasing the national defecit or helped the Gross National Product. Show me the proof where the discussions in these forums have solved the issue of helping blacks to somehow gain control of the over 700 billion dollars we, as black people, spend in the grand capitalist way of mass consumerism? You can't, can you?
quote:
These suckers don't know but they'll soon come to find out, they don't run shit in here forreal....

Heheheheheh...
Seems to me your ass keeps Running In Circles... cabbage

"Take My Word For It" has you running a marathon. Oops! I made a mistake. You can't be running in circles... because you will never return to the damn point of the thread, let alone support the very thing you're RUNNING FROM!!

quote:
...it most DEFINATELY doesn't make you a better person if you can support your information with links and other various sources.


And I'm laughing... SERIOUSLY!! laugh

Dude, you're the only one concerned (and I should say obsessed) with this "better person" BULLSHIT! Supporting what you say is BARE MINIMUM stuff, Iron~ Something that's not even a concern or a burden for anyone without "I'm better" issues.

Really, what is that bullshit all about?

I will readily point to any number of posters here who are "smarter" and more accomplished than me. That's no sweat off my brow. It just seems like if you can anticipate things as you have (in all your crazy presumptions) then one thing above all that you should have been prepared for was providing some support for what you had to say.

The funny thing about it, my initial question-request was made in passing. Just a simple request for you to provide support for what you said SINCE YOU brought it up. You know, that remarkably IRRELEVANT piece of unqualified/unverified information.

Your chosen topic was: SUPPORTING BLACK LEADERSHIP (or Leading Blacks)

Now, I'm still trying to figure out how mentioning Black "slaveowners", etc. advances a discussion of that issue.

What's even more funny is, since you act like you've done so much research (i.e. observed my or our posting activities/manners)... what's funny is that you will find very little if any type of comments by me on Colin or Condi. But that didn't stop you from assuming, explicitly or implicitly, that I somehow "disrespect" them.

It's funny how "YOU PEOPLE" come to this forum with pre-conceived notions and, like the DEBRA-tant you are, you just seem to be too unprepared/underprepared for discussions when someone, like myself, doesn't fit into one of your pre-contrived, pre-conceived box.

"Afro-culturalism"... Big Grin That's so cute!

I guess me trying to "RUN" a real conversation, discussion or debate with you is something to be avoided like the plague, huh?

But keep RUNNING, Iron~
Keep RUNNING from your own words... bsm
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quote:
Originally posted by IRONHORSE:
IT IS THAT DEEP!!! IT IS THAT DEEP!!!

*Dancing around a campfire wearing a dish towel for a loin cloth around my waist*

OOOGAAA BOOGAAA, henry38!!!

Me run africanamerica.org UUMMGOWAA!!

Oh, by the way, if anyone is interested, here's the link to read on the first black man that owned white slaves in America

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part1/1narr3.html


First off, Ironhorse, as irrelevant as Nmaginate says it is, that link does not support the statement made earlier, that "the first slave owners or, if you want to get technical, endentured slave owners, as well as the first land owners were black. It says that there were some who did, but these ones mentioned here are not described as the first servant-owners.

(Wait, why am I bothering talking actual issues with this guy? Confused )

Second, Henry 38 ... Now that Ironhorse has addressed you with talk of loin cloths, dancing around a fire, "ooga booga" "me run things," and all manner of outrageously disrespectful stereotype comments about people from Africa, I expect to see from you, in short order, a ranting thread in the "?" forum entitled, "IRONHORSE, I WANT A WORD WITH YOU."
Nah Vox. You got it all wrong, I believe IRONHORSE is simply having fun with everyone on this site. I bumped into the IRON man last week and he informed me he was overthrowing MBM and taking over the site after which he will run the place with an iron fist. Incidentally he came over from BP with his wrecking posse to help him establish this coup.

As I said I am taking a ringside seat and watch the sparks fly. If I am taking a hit maybe I am sitting too close to the fire. I think it's best I move to the back seat and watch the show. I'm out.

You can read all about the ironman's agenda here
quote:
Thanks, IRONHORSE,

What goes around comes around. Looks like a few individuals are recieving some of the same sarcacism, and disrespect, that they have sent my direction.

Mind you, the only thing that I've done, to deserve such treatment, is to express the reality that far too many of our own Black elected leaders are a disgrace, treasonous, etc., etc, and the associated foolishness of the so-called Black middle-class who promote these individuals.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton


It's all good, Michael. I feel you, man. You have to understand, some of these people in here--this is their only outlet--the only power they have in their lives.

Things are begining to change, Michael....
I just got the jist of the comments to Henry38......well Henry, don't trip.....whenever a black resorts to a white man's racist M.O. in dealing with another black, they are just searching for their own self-adequacy.......and since they obviously think that the white man is a higher species, they will emulate his behavior to feel that they are also higher in some form or fashion........as so far as that other cat whose name i'll never use again.....Poor guy...he goes everywhere looking for allies.....even the white racist sites where they laugh at him and refer to him as a coon azz nigga once he leaves.....man i'm glad I do not hate black people so much that I have to cavort with the known and declared enemy and suck out of their azz for validation....and also look for everything bad that happens to black people as a reason to celebrate how f-ked up he feels black people are....based on his own experiences....which might just well be because him and his people are the one's actually f-ked up. But from the way he never acknowledges reality when faced with it.....he could never come to terms to realize that he and his people may be responsible for the problems he has had.......that will never happen....no matter how obviously true it may appear to be.....


But the truth is.......don't give the schit you talk that much relevance....words are nothing but sounds and cannot make a person bleed.......
Simple question, LOFTON.

List the Black Elected officials or "leadership" figures members of this board have PROMOTED.... PROMOTED...

Note: Promoted does not equal anything close to your subjective view of who "defended", "protected" or "honored" whom. PROMOTED means exactly that.

What members have PROMOTED which Black political figures and called them their "leaders" and the "leaders" of all or most Black people?

You mention Johnny Cochran, well you did not list why he was not "worthy of praise". You did not suggest that he didn't make a contribution from his field of expertise or somehow did something that fits into your Sleaze Categories.
quote:
Originally posted by Michael:

What goes around comes around. Looks like a few individuals are recieving some of the same sarcacism, and disrespect, that they have sent my direction.

Mind you, the only thing that I've done, to deserve such treatment, is to express the reality that far too many of our own Black elected leaders are a disgrace, treasonous, etc., etc, and the associated foolishness of the so-called Black middle-class who promote these individuals.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton[/URL]


Lofton, you are "disrespected" by everybody here because you are a fool.

You post the same idiocy over and over again, with the same mile long mind numbing posts that nobody in their right mind would ever actually read. In your efforts to tear down Black Leaders such as MLK, you come here pushing your agenda that you bring from webpages hosted by http://www.stormfront.org (White Pride World Wide!) such as http://www.martinlutherking.org/.

You refuse to back down on even your silliest statements, such as your claim that Merv Dymally is an illegal immigrant, and held his US Congressional seat illegally. (You even once made the same accusation against Shirley Chisolm, claiming that as an illegal immigrant, she also held office illegally in the US Congress.) I would have though that even you would have quietly dropped that one during your absense from here.

Lofton, why don't you just go play with your friends over at the Protest Whinier Forum and at Stormfront's "The Truth About Martin Luther King" Discussion Forum?
...that is not the reality of it Buckwheat, and it is not just me saying so!

..with respect to stormfront, protest warriors, etc., I have not posted anything there in months.

...besides, there are many other sources other than any stormfront, protest warrior, etc., to substantiate the deceit, the disgrace, the treason, etc., that exists with the typical Black elected leadership, and/or many of the so called Black middleclass, and unlike your contention, I did not have to go to any protest warrior, stormfront, the internet, or any website, to experience or retrieve such factual information!


posted January 16, 2004 11:17 PM
Some people would say that I'm crazy, but most would say just the opposite, because credit should only be given where it is due. Since Martin Luther King, the NAACP, Jesse Jackson, SCLC, PUSH, the Congressional Black Caucus, the so-called Black middle class, are not in any way responsible for my success, and/or anyone in my circle, then credit in this instance is truly deserving as applied to:

1. My parents.

2. My own effort to succeed.

3. A few teachers.

4. A few friends who have helped me along the way.

5. Any doctor who helped to save my life.

6. Any co-worker who has helped me along the way.

7. Any stranger who went beyond the call in making my day.

8. Joe Pine, and the owners of the Joe Pine Radio Station.

9. One lone Black woman who made it her business to help re-unite my immediate family, the exception being one of my sisters, who spent at least eighteen years of her life, from the time that she was a toddler, to be hidden and passed between deceitful Black foster parents to keep the AFDC benefits flowing.

10. The Daily News for printing the truth about my family as opposed to the many falsehoods that Black journalists employed by the Los Angeles Sentinel, couldn't publish the story straight even if the author gave it to them verbatim.

11. Booker Griffin, of KGFJ Black radio station, who helped to provide public exposure for one of my immediate family members in a bid to unseat, the no good Buffoon in an elected office holder, former Los Angeles City Councilman Nate Holden.

It will be a "Cold Day in Hell" before I will ever give credit for my success, and/or any of my immediate family members success to any:

13. No good treasonous Black social worker who aided and abetted in the destruction of my immediate family for profit.

12. Deceitful Black foster parents who without legal authority used my brothers, sisters, and I, to collect AFDC benefits, to pay down on their mortgage, pay down on personal luxuries, finance that private education for their offspring, etc., through the destruction of any law abiding Black family, such as the Lofton family, for their own personal financial gain.

13. Any poverty pimping jack-leg Black preacher.

14. Any game playing Black elected official in an illegal immigrant Merv Dymally, Brentwood Burke, Congresswoman Diane Watson, etc., etc.

15. The owners, and journalists affiliated with the Los Angeles Sentinel, the largest Black owned worthless newspaper on the planet.

16. The leadership of the NAACP, which is sleazy at its best.

17. Any Dr. Martin Luther King, who again has absolutely no connection to my success. Mind you back in the day the destruction of the Black family structure for profit surely existed. Mind you just as surely as Caucasians disregarded the rights of Black people, the same and/or worse can be said about Black people who show contempt for the rights of other Black people, who have not infringed upon their rights in any way.

18. Those Black social workers who falsely accused my parents of kidnapping their own offspring, who would go to any length to summons police officers to arrest my Dad, and Mom for the erroneous charge of kidnapping their own flesh and blood, which is the height of disregard for the traditional Black family unit.

19. That no good Black social worker, who summons policing authorities to drag my parents out of the house, while in their pajamas, at 4 A.M. in the morning, on a bogus recommendation to commit both of them to section 95, which is insanity court.

Mind you, my parents belief in themselves, and the value that Caucasians have in respect for the laws on the books, ruled my Dad and Mom both sane and competent. If left up to Black people my Dad and Mom would have been confined to an insane asylum.

20. Last but not least that Black probation officer, who places minors, including infants on Probation. The minors, and infants, in this instance being my immediate family members.

All the above occurred during the height of the civil rights movement, and/or during the 1970's, to which virtually every Black elected official, Civil Rights Organization, Dr. Martin Luther King, many Black Preachers, were made aware of these very serious and un-American atrocities, as it relates truly un-American practices of breaking up law abiding Black families for profit.

Not a one of these individuals spoke up, too even so much as use five minutes out of their day to respond to these very serious atrocities, as it relates to the unwarranted destruction of the Black family structure for profit by other Black people.

Just as in contemporary times, it is very popular for that civil rights movement, or prominent leader, in a Dr. Martin Luther King, a deceitful Reverend Jesse Jackson, an NAACP, PUSH, the Congressional Black Caucus, many of the so-called Black middle class, to show contempt toward Caucasians for very serious civil or criminal law violations, but when it comes time to hold any Black people who fit this description accountable for the civil or criminal law violations that Black people perpetrate on other Black people, this message board, any room, the Black Church, a football stadium filled with Black folks, etc., become so quiet, you would think that the lights are on, and no one is present, or should the victim protest, be is called an Uncle Tom, referred to as being insane, ridiculed, etc.

Again, I only give credit where it is due, to which it should be plain as day as to where my loyalty rests, and who my heroes are, which do not include Dr. Martin Luther King, Reverend Jesse Jackson, any game playing Black elected official, the Los Angeles Sentinel, any Black social worker, any Black probation officer, any Black foster parent, the NAACP, any jack leg poverty pimping Black preacher and their chitterling eating deceitful deacons, and/or any defenders of any of these disgraceful individuals, from any misfit set from within the Black community.

Not that I've written off all of Black America, because the Pompous Professors of Pomposity, the Norlands, etc., are a huge part of the problem and not the solution.

....and Caucasian America like always I made it possible for you to stay tuned. It is certain that you have been following the Lofton story for many years. There is no question that the so-called Black university educated, Black America's own elected leadership have failed, because the reality of it speaks for itself.

The defendents being the LAUSD, in Los Angeles County Case C#895188, to which a mountain of evidence exists to prove that the Los Angeles Unified School District, is in fact guilty as charged.

The question still remains as once again, ..... upon meeting at that fork in the road, "Are there Any Rights that the Truly Law Abiding of Black America have that Mandate Respect?

Dread Scott came to this same fork back in the day, to which the reality of the answer was no.

In light of the fact that Black people have served honorably in WW1, one being my Dad an honorably discharged Buffalo Soldier combat veteran of WW2, the Korean War, the Vietnam War, Desert Storm, one being one of my brothers an honorably discharged Naval War veteran of Desert Storm, and now Iraq.

I seek answers to this question, to determine whether the American Flag, the Principles for which this nation stands, the Pledge of Allegiance, the U.S. Constitution, the "Bill of Rights", "Equal Justice and Protection Under the Law", "Equity in the Courts", etc., in fact exist for me, and/or my posterity, to which this truth rests heavily on the outcome of Los Angeles Superior Court Case #C895188, and its aftermath.

The United States of America, being the greatest, fairest, most promising land of opportunity in the world, is great because of the greatest of the majority of people that live here.

More so than not, the truth always prevails, and so far I'm really encouraged to stay on course, because this great nation has yet to fail the Lofton family.

The misdeeds of a few citizens, as strongly evidence by the blatant incompetence of some Black people in positions of responsibility, the character assassinations as evidenced by a few Black members of this board, are not the fabric, the essence, the purpose of what it means to be a U.S. citizen in this great nation. The many voices to the contrary, exceed the garbage that has been thrown my direction by a few Black people on this board, by leaps and bounds. Should the facts present themselves, and/or should the American people pass judgment, it is certain that this cause will not quashed by the negative responses that I have received from those who are Black like me, who again make statements they cannot prove.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

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Nice weather we've been having lately. Don't you think?

It is this type of BS that has relegated you to the HA, HA, HA zone of posters.

Did I read that daddy Lofton is a veteran of WWII, the Korean Conflict, Vietnam, and Desert Storm? Surely, you jest nono

Are you saying that his military career spanned more than 40 years ... and expect anyone to believe you? nono

When, then, pray tell did all this really, really bad stuff happen to your family? When did he run for office? When did ...

Aw Hell, nice weather we've be having lately. Don't you think?
Ricardo,

As a fellow prof, I would think that you are familiar with the fact that name-calling is a subtitute for intellectual content...come on now.....look at the term liberal....you know that is a curse word...why do you think someone backwoods like W referred to Kerry as a liberal but did not say what that actually means? so when you rebut anything I say, i'll just call you Buckwheat and you should shut the f-k up because you have been put in "your place"......
"Lofton, you are "disrespected" by everybody here because you are a fool." by buckwheat

Not everybody, just a few, meaning the "Pompous Professor of Pomposity" Kevin41, "Can't Back anything up" Kweli4Real, "Playing the Race Card" Nmaginate, Ricardomath, A.K.A."Buckwheat", Herustar, Vox, and a few others.

Well, Buckwheat if you expect to be respected by Michael Lofton you have to first give it!

posted January 16, 2004 11:17 PM

Some people would say that I'm crazy, but most would say just the opposite, because credit should only be given where it is due. Since Martin Luther King, the NAACP, Jesse Jackson, SCLC, PUSH, the Congressional Black Caucus, the so-called Black middle class, are not in any way responsible for my success, and/or anyone in my circle, then credit in this instance is truly deserving as applied to:

1. My parents.

2. My own effort to succeed.

3. A few teachers.

4. A few friends who have helped me along the way.

5. Any doctor who helped to save my life.

6. Any co-worker who has helped me along the way.

7. Any stranger who went beyond the call in making my day.

8. Joe Pine, and the owners of the Joe Pine Radio Station.

9. One lone Black woman who made it her business to help re-unite my immediate family, the exception being one of my sisters, who spent at least eighteen years of her life, from the time that she was a toddler, to be hidden and passed between deceitful Black foster parents to keep the AFDC benefits flowing.

10. The Daily News for printing the truth about my family as opposed to the many falsehoods that Black journalists employed by the Los Angeles Sentinel, couldn't publish the story straight even if the author gave it to them verbatim.

11. Booker Griffin, of KGFJ Black radio station, who helped to provide public exposure for one of my immediate family members in a bid to unseat, the no good Buffoon in an elected office holder, former Los Angeles City Councilman Nate Holden.

It will be a "Cold Day in Hell" before I will ever give credit for my success, and/or any of my immediate family members success to any:

13. No good treasonous Black social worker who aided and abetted in the destruction of my immediate family for profit.

12. Deceitful Black foster parents who without legal authority used my brothers, sisters, and I, to collect AFDC benefits, to pay down on their mortgage, pay down on personal luxuries, finance that private education for their offspring, etc., through the destruction of any law abiding Black family, such as the Lofton family, for their own personal financial gain.

13. Any poverty pimping jack-leg Black preacher.

14. Any game playing Black elected official in an illegal immigrant Merv Dymally, Brentwood Burke, Congresswoman Diane Watson, etc., etc.

15. The owners, and journalists affiliated with the Los Angeles Sentinel, the largest Black owned worthless newspaper on the planet.

16. The leadership of the NAACP, which is sleazy at its best.

17. Any Dr. Martin Luther King, who again has absolutely no connection to my success. Mind you back in the day the destruction of the Black family structure for profit surely existed. Mind you just as surely as Caucasians disregarded the rights of Black people, the same and/or worse can be said about Black people who show contempt for the rights of other Black people, who have not infringed upon their rights in any way.

18. Those Black social workers who falsely accused my parents of kidnapping their own offspring, who would go to any length to summons police officers to arrest my Dad, and Mom for the erroneous charge of kidnapping their own flesh and blood, which is the height of disregard for the traditional Black family unit.

19. That no good Black social worker, who summons policing authorities to drag my parents out of the house, while in their pajamas, at 4 A.M. in the morning, on a bogus recommendation to commit both of them to section 95, which is insanity court.

Mind you, my parents belief in themselves, and the value that Caucasians have in respect for the laws on the books, ruled my Dad and Mom both sane and competent. If left up to Black people my Dad and Mom would have been confined to an insane asylum.

20. Last but not least that Black probation officer, who places minors, including infants on Probation. The minors, and infants, in this instance being my immediate family members.

All the above occurred during the height of the civil rights movement, and/or during the 1970's, to which virtually every Black elected official, Civil Rights Organization, Dr. Martin Luther King, many Black Preachers, were made aware of these very serious and un-American atrocities, as it relates truly un-American practices of breaking up law abiding Black families for profit.

Not a one of these individuals spoke up, too even so much as use five minutes out of their day to respond to these very serious atrocities, as it relates to the unwarranted destruction of the Black family structure for profit by other Black people.

Just as in contemporary times, it is very popular for that civil rights movement, or prominent leader, in a Dr. Martin Luther King, a deceitful Reverend Jesse Jackson, an NAACP, PUSH, the Congressional Black Caucus, many of the so-called Black middle class, to show contempt toward Caucasians for very serious civil or criminal law violations, but when it comes time to hold any Black people who fit this description accountable for the civil or criminal law violations that Black people perpetrate on other Black people, this message board, any room, the Black Church, a football stadium filled with Black folks, etc., become so quiet, you would think that the lights are on, and no one is present, or should the victim protest, be is called an Uncle Tom, referred to as being insane, ridiculed, etc.

Again, I only give credit where it is due, to which it should be plain as day as to where my loyalty rests, and who my heroes are, which do not include Dr. Martin Luther King, Reverend Jesse Jackson, any game playing Black elected official, the Los Angeles Sentinel, any Black social worker, any Black probation officer, any Black foster parent, the NAACP, any jack leg poverty pimping Black preacher and their chitterling eating deceitful deacons, and/or any defenders of any of these disgraceful individuals, from any misfit set from within the Black community.

Not that I've written off all of Black America, because the Pompous Professors of Pomposity, the Norlands, etc., are a huge part of the problem and not the solution.

....and Caucasian America like always I made it possible for you to stay tuned. It is certain that you have been following the Lofton story for many years. There is no question that the so-called Black university educated, Black America's own elected leadership have failed, because the reality of it speaks for itself.

The defendents being the LAUSD, in Los Angeles County Case C#895188, to which a mountain of evidence exists to prove that the Los Angeles Unified School District, is in fact guilty as charged.

The question still remains as once again, ..... upon meeting at that fork in the road, "Are there Any Rights that the Truly Law Abiding of Black America have that Mandate Respect?

Dread Scott came to this same fork back in the day, to which the reality of the answer was no.

In light of the fact that Black people have served the U.S. honorably during times of War,
...one being my Dad an honorably discharged Buffalo Soldier combat veteran of WW2...., one being one of my brothers an honorably discharged Naval War veteran of Desert Storm, and the many Black people who serve in the American Revolution, WWI, WWII, the Korean War, the Vietnam War, Desert Storm, and now Iraq.


"Nice weather we've been having lately. Don't you think?

It is this type of BS that has relegated you to the HA, HA, HA zone of posters.

Did I read that daddy Lofton is a veteran of WWII, the Korean Conflict, Vietnam, and Desert Storm? Surely, you jest

Are you saying that his military career spanned more than 40 years ... and expect anyone to believe you?

When, then, pray tell did all this really, really bad stuff happen to your family? When did he run for office? When did ...

Aw Hell, nice weather we've be having lately. Don't you think? by Kweli4Real

...indeed nice weather we are having. The information shared is already documented in a court of law. Yep, Kweli, unlike you a mountain of hard evidence exists to validate the information as referenced.

....At this point in time it is more of a responsiblity for a Kweli4Real, a Kevin41, a Buckwheat, etc., to prove that this didn't happen,......that is if some of these individuals expect to receive so much as a dime in reparations for the vestibule of slavery.

I don't have to resort to mis-statement of fact to support my contentions.

.....and the Black middleclass expect to receive reparations for slavery, yet some of the Black middle class have contributed to the break-up of the traditional Black family structure for profit themselves.

....This has all the makings of a hypocrit. In all fairness that so-called Black middleclass need to make restitution to the many Black families they have destroyed, for a practice, pertaining to the illegal and unwarranted destruction of the law abiding Black family for profit that was supposed to have ended when slavery ended.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

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I don't have to resort to mis-statement of fact to support my contentions.

Lofton, are you really that sick that you have taken to refer to ME as "Can't Back anything up, Kweli?" Point to a single statement that I have made that when challenged as to its accuracy, I was unable or unwilling to provide documentary support. Further, the one instance when I mis-wrote, VOX, caught it and when he pointed it out, I apologized and corrected my statement to the satisfaction of all.

Besides, you have the gall to act out when the whole controversy around you stems from you casting these wild a$$ assertions and then failing/refusing to back them up?

Remember your claim that Merv Dymally is an illegal immigrant, and held his US Congressional seat illegally? Or, your claiming the same thing regarding Shirley Chisolm?

And now, you claim that pappy lofton is a veteran of 4 wars covering a span of more than 40 years? That's staight up bs. While he may have been alive during these years, it is highly unlikely that he was active military over this period.

But I'll tell you what ... Private Message me pappy lofton's vital info (e.g., name, date of birth, branch of service, and/or any other identifying info) and I will pull then post pappy lofton's service record for all to see.
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
You know ... I don't like where this [I] am going with this. The above post was hurtful and beneath me.

Lofton, I'm gonna just leave this, and you, alone.

Peace.


I feel ya Kweli,

bro...we can never let others bring out the worse in us....I believe in sinking to their level yet staying above it at the same time.......peace
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
BTW, I've just wasted about a half hour researching pappy lofton: I got that he was a graduate of W.V. State Univ.; was a honorable discharged disabled combat veteran (no dates); and he had "one year of gainful employment in his life." [Source: statement by Esther Lofton before Bd of Supervisors]


"You know ... I don't like where this [I] am going with this. The above post was hurtful and beneath me.

Lofton, I'm gonna just leave this, and you, alone." by Kweli4Real

.....but does that make you criminal. It is also a sad day when any war time deserving honorably discharged veteran is denied gainful employment.

The statement as referenced by Kweli4Real does not state that my Dad and Mom are credential school teachers. My Dad and Mom had credentials to teach in more than one state.

Nor is there any information in the above statement as referenced or anywhere else, to show where any of my family members have been wards of the state, due to any charge of child abuse, insanity, any child taken away for being incorrigible, etc., etc.

In addition, there is not a single court document that exists to where my parents have lost parental rights anywhere in the United States of America, be it Los Angeles County or otherwise.

BTW, I've just wasted about a half hour researching pappy lofton: I got that he was a graduate of W.V. State Univ.; was a honorable discharged disabled combat veteran (no dates); and he had "one year of gainful employment in his life." [Source: statement by Esther Lofton before Bd of Supervisors]

....Nor is the above statement, or any derivative thereof, reason to lose custody to your children.

......Nor has this been used as a reason to find either one of my parents to be unfit, insane, etc.

Black social workers attempted to proposition my Mom to sign up for social welfare benefits under the condition that if she put her husband out she could receive Social Welfare. I'm so glad my Mom was loyal to her husband and told this idiot set, as it pertains to too many of the so-called university educated of Black America, to take a "hike", and under no circumstances would she take or accept social welfare benefits. Mind you neither my Mom, nor my Dad asked any of these social workers, or otherwise, for any assistance or benefits to receive social welfare benefits in the first place.

.....Mind you, as reality would have it, more times than not, when the going gets tough, the average Black woman out there, would have put her husband up for bid to disconnect him from the family that the "Great Almighty God" put together,........ for some "stinking, worthless, never get the government out of your life, need to be lined up and shot in the back of the head by a firing squad execution style disrespectful breathing down your neck on a daily basis no good Black social workers, not enough to survive on County Welfare Benefits".

My Dad and Mom made a way for their siblings, we never went hungry, or lacked clothes on our backs. Never once did either of them take so much as a dime in social welfare benefits, or make use of unemployment insurance. My Dad and Mom were very resourceful, with or without gainful employment. It is to my parent's credit to say all this, and not draw a dime in social welfare, or succumb to subculture activities in their quest for the survival of the Mr. and Mrs. Leon E. Lofton, Jr. Family.

....Black social workers, probation officers, foster parents have no respect for the Black family structure, and no respect for the law.

Be it the issue of being denied gainful employment, my syntax, grammar, style of writing, or otherwise.......

I have a mountain of evidence to prove that Black social workers have illegally broken up Black families, specifically as it applies to my immediate family.

I can prove that Black probation officers have placed minors, including infants on probation.

I can prove beyond all doubt that many of the so-called Black elected leaders play games when petitioned for redress for a government seriously gone awry.

I can prove that many of the so-called Black middleclass are just as treasonous.

The message remains the same.

....Speaking of reparations, perhaps that so-called Black middleclass should make restitution, reparations, etc., etc., to the many Black families that they have illegally broken up to collect AFDC benefits.

Many of the Black middleclass are educated fools, and have little or no regard for the rights of the law abiding, and even less regard for the traditional Black family structure.

...and Kweli4Real no matter how many mistakes I make, you can not embarrass me, or any member of my family. Furthermore, I can state without reservation that more so than Caucasians, Black people are in fact their own worse enemies, etc., etc.

You may embarrass yourself trying to do so, but you will never embarrass me, or any other member of my family.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

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Hey guys cool it. Chill...name calling isn't necessary. To Vox and Audio Guy I apologize for insulting you on my last post. I have to admit I take things a little too personally sometimes. Truth is we can't see each other on this board, all we see are the words so we can't tell if someone is just stating a fact or being insulting. I even remember a case in 2002/2003 of someone being killed under these circumstances.
quote:
Originally posted by maverick:
Hey guys cool it. Chill...name calling isn't necessary. To Vox and Audio Guy I apologize for insulting you on my last post. I have to admit I take things a little too personally sometimes. Truth is we can't see each other on this board, all we see are the words so we can't tell if someone is just stating a fact or being insulting. I even remember a case in 2002/2003 of someone being killed under these circumstances.


Well Maverick, speaking of name calling, your advice, and words of wisdom would be more valuable here. With respect to name calling and personal attacks, no one can surpass Nmaginate in this regard! Don't take my word for it, let any rational reader be the judge!

"Where you lying sack of shit? WHERE?

Oh... that's why you're not going to quote anything else. You know you're lying. Fucking TumbleWeed..." by Nmaginate

"What a fucking dumbass you are... by Nmaginate", directed at IronHorse

"Yep...my conversations in here have nothing to do with org behavior or technology management. I roll with the flow others dictate (like my Spurs) and play along accordingly.....so when I rebut what a person says based on facts and social research and they tell me to f-k off or reply with some BS that is insulting, then that is how we roll from now on....and when people start communicating with the level of respect and professionalism shown in a classroom...then we roll in that mannner....i'll be damned if I stay on a civil plane while others demean, degrade and insult others while ducking and dodging respectful, specific questions-fuck em......." by Kevin41

.....by a so-called university professor.....At face value, considering this statement in his own words, I wouldn't recommend Kevin41 to instruct anyone close to my circle!

....indeed the name calling must stop. Respect must also be mutual, otherwise there will be no peace, be it name calling or otherwise!

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton
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quote:
Originally posted by maverick:
Hey guys cool it. Chill...name calling isn't necessary. To Vox and Audio Guy I apologize for insulting you on my last post. I have to admit I take things a little too personally sometimes.


What last post? The search feature doesn't seem to be working for me lately... Obviously, whatever it was, if I don't remember it, it couldn't've been a big deal. For that matter, since it's on an internet board, it really couldn't bother me enough to need any apologies. There's a big difference between insulting Vox and insulting Romal. So don't fret it... it means nothing.

As for this thread... I tend to skip over Lofton's posts, so I don't get enough context. Maybe next time I'll read thru it and find out who "pappy Lofton" is... But I definitely see the need to chill, Kweli.

Think about it: your facts and logic don't work on him. So why let his lunacy and self-hate work on you? (Sorry Lofton, but there's a difference between insulting to inflame and calling it like I see it...)
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:
quote:
Originally posted by maverick:
Hey guys cool it. Chill...name calling isn't necessary. To Vox and Audio Guy I apologize for insulting you on my last post. I have to admit I take things a little too personally sometimes.


What last post? The search feature doesn't seem to be working for me lately... Obviously, whatever it was, if I don't remember it, it couldn't've been a big deal. For that matter, since it's on an internet board, it really couldn't bother me enough to need any apologies. There's a big difference between insulting Vox and insulting Romal. So don't fret it... it means nothing.

As for this thread... I tend to skip over Lofton's posts, so I don't get enough context. Maybe next time I'll read thru it and find out who "pappy Lofton" is... But I definitely see the need to chill, Kweli.

Think about it: your facts and logic don't work on him. So why let his lunacy and self-hate work on you? (Sorry Lofton, but there's a difference between insulting to inflame and calling it like I see it...) by Vox

Definitely no shortage of material to select from in the event sequels were to be marketed for the game "Ghettopoly". Heck, I see, and experience, enough in real life as it applies to the many misfits of Black America, where there would be no need to purchase the game "Ghettopoly"


.....and I'm also calling it like it is. I'm not about to change this tune for any Vox, Kevin41, Kweli4Real, Buckwheat, Nmaginate, Maverick, Herustar, ambulance chasing Johnny Cochran, illegal immigrant serving foreign interests at the expense of the residents of South Central Los Angeles and Compton no Good Merv Dymally, Brentwood Burke, Kerosene Waters, Carpetbagging no good Martin Ludlow, Little Napoleon Marc Ridley Thomas, Caught with his pants down having lewd sex with a prostitute in a government vehicle California State Assemblyman Kevin Murray, Former Congressman now felon and preaching the gospel fake Walter Tucker, any poverty pimping no good sleazy self ordained Reverend Jessie Jackson, Poverty Pimping Reverend Felony Henry Lyons, the so-called Black middle class who idolize and praise this trash, or otherwise!

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton
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Hey, guys, if you want to know where Michael got that quote on what Nmaginate said, all you have to do is just go to the reparations forum and check out the discussion entitled, "Ideal Reparations."

No, I'm not butting in and I'm not trying to start anything. The point is, people like Nmaginate and HeruStar simply don't have the integrity or common courteousy to constructively debate on a topic without resorting to making slanderous comments. Now, personally, I don't give a damn--my ego isn't so easily bruised--I can cuss a fool out just as quickly and easily--the point is, it doesn't have to come to that point, especially continue for several pages.
quote:
Originally posted by maverick:
Hey guys cool it. Chill...name calling isn't necessary. To Vox and Audio Guy I apologize for insulting you on my last post. I have to admit I take things a little too personally sometimes. Truth is we can't see each other on this board, all we see are the words so we can't tell if someone is just stating a fact or being insulting. I even remember a case in 2002/2003 of someone being killed under these circumstances.
I seemed to have missed your insult... please tell me where to see it so that I can "bitch slap" you and then you can properly apologize... Big Grin

*edited to add*
quote:
From Mav:
No offense but if you guys really find small petty things funny then you really, really need to get out more. I didn't come here looking for a fight but there are people here who are obviously as sensitive, petty and paranoid as I am. We can do this back and forth all day long. I know, let me change the topic of this post to: Pettiness.
Is this what you are apologizing for? *Bitch Slap* Okay, apology accepted...
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