So Pan-Africanism/Black nationalism establishes a solid foundation circa 2010...

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Originally posted by Yemaya:
I think that the main issue is creating a unified front. To make people of African descent proud to be African and to have the resources that enable us to hold our own as a people.

Creating a united front and the pride that comes from such..... is a result of something else....

incentive.....


People are noble... and are motivated by purposeful goals.... however, they act based off incentives......

We have to see practical value in an African alliance.... and Africa has to see practical value in an alliance....

Peace,
Virtue

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Originally posted by Shango67:

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Originally posted by MBM:

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Originally posted by Shango67:

We best have some type of military

I'm not being critical, but practically speaking, of what value would "some type of military" be when the U.S. spends more on defense than the rest of the world combined? Again, I very much respect the symbolism of creating a military presence, but of what practical value would that be to us?

It is a start. You don't talk about nation building, in the context of sharing the world with an enemy committed to our destruction, without looking to build a military... no matter how lofty the idea.

I just wonder whether we have to create a new paradigm of "nation building". It seems that with current technology, communications, etc. that we might be able to create a virtual nation that could be even stronger than a traditional one. Two tenets of military strategy that resonate with me in this regard are: 1) don't accept the fight on a stronger opponents terms/turf - redefine the battlefield - it's what successful "insurgencies" have done throughout history from the Minute Men to the Iraqi insurgency now, and 2) think in Judo terms - utilize your stronger opponent's strength against him. There's got to be a way to "arm" ourselves in ingenuitive and effective ways: economically? in terms of skills and capabilities that we acquire? etc. that give us leverage to protect our interests.

Just a thought . . .

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Originally posted by Shango67:

Not aware or you choose to ignore????

Brother - c'mon get serious. I guarantee you that I am at least as aware of news/topics etc. affecting black people as most everyone else out there. I mentioned that there were exceptions - and Ghana was specifically one of them as I've had relatives repatriate there - but where is the strong thread throughout Pan Africanism to get African Americans back into the fold? If there is such a strategic and targeted effort - why don't I know about it when I make it my business to be informed about these things? If there is a "recruitment" effort, then who and how and where are they "recruiting" us 'cause I've never heard about it.

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Africa can't offer Africans from amerikkka anything close to what white supremacy pays to keep us here. And African scholars and leaders know this to be painfully true. They would love us to return but we expect to much. TLeaving this nation to live in Africa, even for a short stay, requires an incredible amount of personal, emotional, and economic sacrifice.

I have a friend who's father was forced into exile in Tanzania and he lives like an absolute KING. One can live better than in the United States.

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Originally posted by Shango67:

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so incredibly obvious has not happened to any meaningful degree.

IT HAS HAPPENED AND IT HAS BEEN MEANINGFUL!!!

Would you like or need some type of media campaign to understand this point?

WHERE? WHEN? HOW? IN WHAT FORM? What were the results? How effective was it?

Why can't anyone here put their finger on it? Media campaign? Absofreakinglutely!! How else are you going to communicate something to an entire community of people thousands of miles away?

If I were head of an African country on the West coast and wanted to build my tourism business AND SUPPORT Pan Africanism I would invest an extraordinary amount of resources into a campaign targeted toward African Americans that was simple and direct:

COME HOME TO "CAMAROON". (or wherever)

Supporting copy might say something like:

"It's never been easier or more affordable to come back home - to Mother Africa." And then communcate details of the offer.

I'd advertise in African American media, I'd do an entire PR campaign where - as the leader of the country - I would personally extend an invitation to African Americans to come visit, I'd sponsor African American events (like TD Jakes' MegaFest, the CIAA basketball tournament, etc.). Beyond that, I would ensure that there were resorts built to deliver a wonderful vacation experience but also very much include historical and "continental" experiences to bond African Americans with that country and with the continent and with Africans. Lastly, I'd create tax incentives to encourage those African Americans who over time enjoyed their stay enough that they might consider to coming to stay. I'd realize that my country and economy could benefit by the infusion of capital and intellectual contributions that African Americans could bring. Maybe I'd offer tax breaks to invest in the country - to start businesses etc. - and perhaps waive property or income taxes for a period (10 years?) so they can develop a firm foundation in their new home.

If I can come up with that in 90 seconds off the top of my head in response to you - what do you think someone could develop that had a real interest in making this happen?

IMO the "average" African American - if given the opportunity - would LOVE to explore more of Africa. All we need is something of an "invitation" to make the idea "top of mind" and relevant practically. There is so much negative BS communicated about Africa. Just offer a number of places to go. Make it somewhat affordable. And provide the tools to explore and enjoy one's time in a safe and secure fashion with significant historical "meat" - and folks would be there in a heartbeat.

P.S. Heck - I'd BUY a couple of 747's and transport African Americans back and forth for next to nothing just to get them there!

P.P.S. Since Africa will always be the home of Africans - "the source" so to speak - is it such a reach that that will be where the call comes from to "come home" - both figuratively and literally?

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Originally posted by Shango67:

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I bet Condi Rice has eaten dinner with Africans from more places than you. Is she a Pan Africanist?

This is question that is COMPLETELY out of context. Be fair in your questioning...

Out of context? Suggesting that one's commitment to Pan Africanism is predicated upon the ability to have dinner with folks is IN context?

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No matter what happens, his responses to your questions is not goind to diminish your concern over the inability of Pan Africanism to reach the masses.

Bruh - perhaps you're letting your own biases toward me leak through here. Where have I challeneged ANYTHING of Pan Africanism? I started the thread to ASK what the current state of thinking is on this, what the current strategies are to make it happen, and who is leading this?

I bet Condi Rice has eaten dinner with Africans from more places than you. Is she a Pan Africanist?

This is question that is COMPLETELY out of context. Be fair in your questioning...


Out of context? Suggesting that one's commitment to Pan Africanism is predicated upon the ability to have dinner with folks is IN context?

thats some ignorant shyt to say, but if thats what you got out of my threads cool!

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I have a friend who's father was forced into exile in Tanzania and he lives like an absolute KING. One can live better than in the United States.

As you know, Africans in amerikkka (as a collective) are the wealthiest Africans in the world... and as a result, we enjoy the highest standard of living. Black Africa can't offer Africans in amerikkka a similar standard of living - on any level.

I am sure your friend lives like a king, but Africans born in this country are socialized to see Africa as a place of abject poverty, low moral standards, starvation, primitive, and backwards. By the time we get to adulthood, Africans born to amerikkka have to scrub the conscious clear before Africa is even considered as a place to live, work, marry, and raise children. And brother, I don't see ANY media campaign convincing young and productive Africans in this country to leave. The Black folks who choos Africa over amerikkka have a different mindset than their cohorts and are already INCLINED to leave... and when they arrive in Africa, they don't expect a someone to be there ready to hand them an incentive package for the repatriation.

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Bruh - perhaps you're letting your own biases toward me leak through here.

This is true.

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IMO the "average" African American - if given the opportunity - would LOVE to explore more of Africa.

This is a distortion of our reality.

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Originally posted by Shango67:

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IMO the "average" African American - if given the opportunity - would LOVE to explore more of Africa.

This is a distortion of our reality.

And the basis of your assertion is?

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Originally posted by Shango67:

The Black folks who choos Africa over amerikkka have a different mindset than their cohorts and are already INCLINED to leave... and when they arrive in Africa, they don't expect a someone to be there ready to hand them an incentive package for the repatriation.

First - as with ANY movement - there are early adopters who create the demand for the majority. IMO - those who are inclined to leave now would be those early adopters, with others following after. It's the way every marketing/comsumer "cycle" works.

To your last point, those who are interested in attracting folks do things to attract them.

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Have you seen the activity in East Africa and Southern Africa lately???

Hmmmmm....

There seems to be no problem recruiting Asians for international trade and business ventures... while setting them up real nice and pretty in the inner cities....

I am not sure that Black Africans are recruiting Asians as an aesthetic; it has more to do with pursuing the redevelopment capital outside of looking to the IMF and World Bank.

And since we (Africans in the amerikkkas) have shown no interest in developing Africa, then I understand why Africans would chase the money.

Additionally, I would be interested in knowing if these Asians were set up by Arabs or Black folk.

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Originally posted by Shango67:

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Bruh - perhaps you're letting your own biases toward me leak through here.

This is true.

I'm not sure that leads to very effective communication.

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Originally posted by Shango67:

And since we (Africans in the amerikkkas) have shown no interest in developing Africa, then I understand why Africans would chase the money.

Would you suggest that most Africans are interested in having African Americans "develop" Africa? Wouldn't most see that as a paternalistic and unattractive?

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First - as with ANY movement - there are early adopters who create the demand for the majority. IMO - those who are inclined to leave now would be those early adopters, with others following after. It's the way every marketing/comsumer "cycle" works.

MBM...

Pan Africanism is older than every Black movement this country has seen. The early adopters are dead and gone long time ago. It is not an issue of creating a demand. It is an issue of how we are socialized.

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Originally posted by MBM:

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Originally posted by Shango67:

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Bruh - perhaps you're letting your own biases toward me leak through here.

This is true.

I'm not sure that leads to very effective communication.

I am working on it.

quote:

Originally posted by MBM:

quote:

Originally posted by Shango67:

quote:

IMO the "average" African American - if given the opportunity - would LOVE to explore more of Africa.

This is a distortion of our reality.

And the basis of your assertion is?

Observation and study... same as you... however, you interpret what you see the other way around.

We live in a society where the MAJORITY of the Africans in amerikkka don't or can't define themselves as African... even as some of the claim to be "African American." To be able to see yourself as belonging to Africa, IMO, must be a primary reason for being able to live or work in Africa.

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To your last point, those who are interested in attracting folks do things to attract them

Within reason, bruh.

And the current state of the African mind in amerikkka can't be reached. It would be like sending a bunch of white folks to the continent. And our brothers and sisters don't need a bunch of confused Black folks running around... especially since they have a good number of post colonial African toms on their hands.

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Would you suggest that most Africans are interested in having African Americans "develop" Africa? Wouldn't most see that as a paternalistic and unattractive?

I think the answer to your question depends on who is giving the response.

We are the wealthiest Africans in the world, but certainly not the most educated. Most Africans on the continent who have had access to education, are much more skilled - especially in the areas of math, science, and medicine - than Africans who claim to be educated in amerikkkan society. So, if you were talking with them, I think, they would appreciate the cash and human resource, but would like to have some say so in the development areas related to their skills.

quote:

Originally posted by Shango67:

We live in a society where the MAJORITY of the Africans in amerikkka don't or can't define themselves as African... even as some of the claim to be "African American." To be able to see yourself as belonging to Africa, IMO, must be a primary reason for being able to live or work in Africa.

Agree, but even our beloved JW Chester - who is one who most aggressively defines his American identity here - would not deny his African heritage. One can be "African American" and still embrace - at whatever level - the African aspect of their identity.

quote:

Originally posted by Shango67:

quote:

First - as with ANY movement - there are early adopters who create the demand for the majority. IMO - those who are inclined to leave now would be those early adopters, with others following after. It's the way every marketing/comsumer "cycle" works.

MBM...

Pan Africanism is older than every Black movement this country has seen. The early adopters are dead and gone long time ago. It is not an issue of creating a demand. It is an issue of how we are socialized.

Good point, but movements ebb and flow. Part of my whole questioning on this subject is to get a sense of where things are in the evolution of PA. IMO - absent those who went to Liberia in the 19th and early 20th centuries - I am not aware of any meaningful effort of African Americans to either return to Africa or to embrace Africa or Africans. Too many of us had "bought the hype" and were too busy trying NOT to be African!

I do sense a current renewal of Pan African thinking though. In that sense - if a major rejuvenation of PA occurs, it will be the 'early adopters' who act on that - who act on this generations' effort.

quote:

Originally posted by Shango67:

And the current state of the African mind in amerikkka can't be reached. It would be like sending a bunch of white folks to the continent. And our brothers and sisters don't need a bunch of confused Black folks running around... especially since they have a good number of post colonial African toms on their hands.

I'm not nearly as pessimistic about African America. I'm not necessarily disputing your claim, I just believe that given the proper "invitation" and leadership, we'd see a much more mainstream embracing of Africa and Africans by black folks here.

Folks - here are some related threads that you may be interested in:

Should African America and Liberia "Adopt" Each Other?

Are You African?

Our Names: A Remaining "Shackle" of Slavery?

Are You an "African In America"?

Pan Africanism 2004

quote:

Originally posted by MBM:
Folks - here are some related threads that you may be interested in:

Should African America and Liberia "Adopt" Each Other?

Are You African?

Our Names: A Remaining "Shackle" of Slavery?

Are You an "African In America"?

Pan Africanism 2004

The renaming thread must have been interesting. Since I was renamed, I would have loved to participate in that discussion.

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I'm not nearly as pessimistic about African America. I'm not necessarily disputing your claim, I just believe that given the proper "invitation" and leadership, we'd see a much more mainstream embracing of Africa and Africans by black folks here.

Africa providing an invitation while Africans waitng for one, is going to keep this thing from happening.

I don't know MBM...

I am invited by Africa everyday. It is a spiritual call. Do you think the spiritual call is real and if so, can we hear it? Is the spiritual call as important as an all out media blitz? Are Africans in amerikkka hearing the call? And do they have the capacity (meaning influenced by white western religious systems) to hear the call?

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Originally posted by Shango67:

The renaming thread must have been interesting. Since I was renamed, I would have loved to participate in that discussion.

The threads are not dead. Please post your experiences and perspectives on whatever thread is of interest. It sounds like you will have unique perspective on the naming one. I for one am very interested in whatever you have to say!

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Originally posted by MBM:

quote:

Originally posted by Shango67:

The renaming thread must have been interesting. Since I was renamed, I would have loved to participate in that discussion.

The threads are not dead. Please post your experiences and perspectives on whatever thread is of interest. It sounds like you will have unique perspective on the naming one. I for one am very interested in whatever you have to say!

Maybe we should all be required to pick a random page daily, say page 92, and find a good thread to revive. There's alot of good stuff burried in the archives here.

I've noticed that Ma'am has been doing a good job reciently at going thru the archives and bumping up old threads.