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This is a point that I have been curious about.

When I was a child, Jews were not considered white people by either white or blacks and certainly not Hispanics or Asians.
Now I see and hear only that Jews are white people. I also see and hear Hispanics and Asians claiming to be white people.

Personally, I always thought the people that where considered white where people whose ancestry origination is European, not Asian, South American, North American, not North African, not the so-called Middle East.
I am just suprised to see so many peole "race-jumping."
It's all about assimilation. Some Races can more easily assimilate into the White Culture than Blacks. Because of their "Fair" features, Straight Hair, and in some cases thin Lips, they are considered to have more White Features. Like it or not Blacks are more distinctive in their appearance, and don't forget we live in a Racist Society.

The reason many are trying to keep Rev Al from participating as a Candidate is that they don't want him to divert Black votes and Black Political interest away from the Candidate who they expect to get the nomination. We all know that Rev Al has no chance of winning the nomination, and as far as the White Democrats are concern, all he's doing is clouding the issue, and might create a distraction for the Democratic Party for the 2004 election.

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quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
You're absolutely right, sunnubian.

And it always amazes me how it's those people who believe they know "genetics and history" who don't seem to have a clue about that! Roll Eyes Eek

Go figure.

BLACK by NATURE, PROUD by CHOICE.
Free your mind, and the rest will follow.



Perhaps you can do some research on the origins of the caucasian and jewish races. Then maybe you too can "have a clue."

Roll Eyes
quote:
Originally posted by Les Apt:

No, Jim.

They are not. Nor are they caucasian.

Please study genetics and history before making that unsupported assertion.


Folks, Judaism (being Jewish) is a religion and "white" is a race. The majority of American Jews have Eastern European/Russian roots - which makes them "white". They may not be WASPs or your typical American white person with Western European Christian roots, but Jews are not their own race.

Sammy Davis was a black Jew. Ariel Sharon is probably a Russian Jew. Someone born in Tel Aviv (a Sabra) is an Israeli Jew. Someone who perished in the Holocaust might have been a German or Polish Jew. Etc.

The distinctions that sunnubian makes are about ethnicity and culture - not race.



There is no passion to be found playing small, in settling for a life
that is less than the one you are capable of living. - Mandela


[This message was edited by MBM on January 01, 2004 at 11:01 PM.]
Not true, Michael.

Jews are their own race. Where do you think European Jews came from, before they were in Europe?

Sammy Davis Jr. was NOT a black Jew.

He was a black man who practiced the religion of Judaism.

That fact no more makes him a Jew than the practicing of Islam would make you an Arab.

His racial composition was different enough to distinguish him from Jews who look like Larry King and Alan Greenspan.

Speaking of Al Sharpton.....what ever happened to Tawana Brawley?

Roll Eyes
quote:
Originally posted by Les Apt:

Not true, Michael.

Jews are their own race.


I respectfully suggest you do just a bit of research on this one. You could not be further from the truth here. Find any definition of "Jew" or "race" that supports your thinking. To your question about origin, how far back do you want to go? As you know, everyone started in Africa. What's your point?

BTW - re: Tawana Brawley, Sharpton supported an underage girl who reported that she had been raped. How is that wrong? Whether she told the truth or not, shouldn't she have received the benefit of the doubt?


There is no passion to be found playing small, in settling for a life
that is less than the one you are capable of living. - Mandela
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
BTW - re: Tawana Brawley, Sharpton supported an underage girl who reported that she had been raped. How is that wrong? Whether she told the truth or not, shouldn't she have received the benefit of the doubt?



It's only wrong if you mind looking like a fool because you jumped the gun and screamed "Evil White Cops" before you knew the facts.

bs bs bs

I was hoping that her story, as it turned out, was BS. At the same time, I was also hoping that if it wasn't BS, that the cops charged would enjoy a nice suite in the general populace of Rikers Island.

upfro
quote:
I was hoping that her story, as it turned out, was BS.
Now why would you have been motivated to be "hoping" it was BS?

What about it made you want that to be the case?
I'm sure it has nothing to do with race because we all know you are not "racist"... I mean you distanced yourself from Lofton and the Stormfronters. That proves you don't have a racist bone in your body! Roll Eyes

I'd be glad when you non-racist Whites find some non-racial issues to comment on with the fervor you do ones involving race. It doesn't bode well for the image you try... TRY... to project.

[This message was edited by Nmaginate on January 02, 2004 at 09:06 PM.]
I was hoping it was BS because I was hoping that it wasn't true.

Keep reading what you want to read into my statement, Angry Black Man.

It appeared from the very beginng to be fishy. No witnesses, a timetable that was implausible, and an angry black man yelling "Racist White Cops" into the TV cameras.

Turned out, I was right.

Reverend Al sure looked like Chicken Little from that point on.......
quote:
I was hoping it was BS because I was hoping that it wasn't true.
That didn't even begin to answer the question.

Do you "hope" that all charges of rape are BS "because you hope it's not true"?

What? Are you SEXIST, too?
What? Do you think that women like to just make up these charges? You can't be trying to say that you "hope" that nothing as tragic as rape ever occurs... so don't try that default mode. I don't think you would call it BS if you just don't want something horrible like that to happen.

"The Colorado girl's case against Kobe Bryant is BS!" Or I'm "hoping" it's BS because I don't want it to be true!"

What the hell does that sound like but a biased opinion in favor of the MALE or MALES in either case?

Okay... Take race out of it...
Tell me how many rape case in your local area are you cheerleading for the charge of rape to be BS "because you were hoping it wasn't true"? When your daughter or female relative makes such a charge? How much "HOPING" are you going to be doing?

I'm sure you'd be hoping what you daughter says is BS... because you wouldn't want that to be true, would you? Roll Eyes

_________________________________
PS:

Call me ABM, racist, or whatever... I hope you are helping your self-esteem in the process. Because if you doing it "hoping" that it offends me, you are wasting your time.

And what are you whining for?
Frown "How is what I said any more racist than what you just posted?"Frown

(I guess you realize how much like a B@tch! you sounded like... that's why you edited that sh*t, huh?)

Only you as a White Guy gets flustered when someone calls you "RACIST". That question of yours is proof. See you are quick to get defensive about stuff like that. And if you are as serious as you tried to portray yourself to be at first then why have you resorted to race-baiting...

I guess it doesn't take long for you true colors to show. Mr. White Guy Coming To A Black Forum "HOPING" To Get Some Love!

I guess even negative attention even counts for something, huh? My mentally/psychologically stable Roll Eyes White brother?
quote:
Originally posted by Les Apt:
I'm hoping the girl is Colorado is telling the truth.

I'm also hoping she's black. Then, when Kobe is found guilty, I won't have to hear you crying about "those white MF'ers had it in for our boy Kobe all along. It's a white conspiracy, I tell ya......."

Roll Eyes
See what your "hoping" is about?
Sh*t completely detached from reality!

Frown"I'm hoping she's Black..." Frown

Well, hate to be the first to break this to you LES(s) she's White... Frown I know that breaks your poor little heart...
________________________________

You keep mentioning this "Conspiracy" stuff...
You care to quote something I've said that or any poster here that's responded to you that has said...
"It's a C-O-N-spiracy!"

Seems like your preconceived - i.e. RACIST, stereotypical - notions about what Blacks think permeates everything you say... And you were Mr. Adult conversationalist a short while back... What happen to that?

Decided to shed the shell game?
quote:
Originally posted by Les Apt:
She's white?

Eek

Well, then, that proves it:

Kobe's the victim of white oppression.

Poor Kobe.

Since he's a victim of years of white oppression, how big should HIS reparation be?
Stupid!

Obviously your RACIST... White a$$ has cared little about gathering actual facts about opinions here about that case. BUT, Why would you concern yourself with that anyway? You already know how Blacks think! Roll Eyes

1] I don't do celebrities. period!
2] I don't mix issues...

Intelligence seems to make that so...
Intelligence is a heavy burden but some of us have to carry that load... Life must be great for you then huh, Les? Your "load" is light as a feather, huh? (Dumba$$)
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin41:
leart3,

Anything is possible with them, so if they did plant the girls, I wouldn't be surprised....history shows us that nothing is beyond their evil minds......so that would be small potatoes in comparison to what they have already done....don'tcha agree?


Kevin:

It does seem strange that so many of these Athletes are getting caught up in the same dumb game, time and time again. It seems as if Stevey Wonder could see the conspiracy by now. Then again I guess the same could be said for HIV.

But in the Kansas State case, I doubt if Ell has much money for them to get, and if they award the Complanant any money he could just turn around and file Bankruptcy before he signs a pro contract.

leart3

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Jim:

I like Rev Al and believe in what he has to say, but we aren't there yet, and I don't think he will be able to attract a reasonable number of African American Votes to truly make his point, but definitely not mainstream votes. I think it's good for him to make his point by running, but I hope he can get enough money in Contributions to further his cause. The main point that he (Rev Al) makes is that African Americans have to stand for something as a group, and not get caught up in the fray of supporting these major party candidates who don't offer or deliver anything to the African American Community.

leart3

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The clearest sign that the White media fears Sharpton is seen its coverage of him.

Pick up any mainstream (i.e., White) media piece for any of the other candidates and you will be able to extract their platform and positions. But any coverage given to Sharpton is completely devoid of a position or platform. The media has cast his campaign as merely a series of one-liners and sharp/witty comebacks; but they have yet to print anything that sets out his positions on issues, as they have done for the other candidates.

The media has effectively marginalized his candidancy.
What you are saying has some truth to it, but any Candidate has to establish himself/herself as a viable Candidate by their "Poll" Numbers. So no matter what Rev Al's Platform is, he has to indicate that his Candicacy is having an impact on the Voters. Also, Africans Americans quick wit and comic behavor has always been popular with Whites. Bill Cosby, Eddy Murphy, George Jefferson, and Stephin Fletcher are just a few examples.

leart3

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I don't see that a candidate has to prove viability to gain coverage. Kucinich and Edwards have long been considered unelectable, but one doesn't have to look very deeply to see where the media has clearly reported on their platforms. Heck, they've even given press to Braun's platform.

No, I think the media doesn't want Sharpton's message out there, because it really speaks to much of middle America.

Maybe that was the point of MBM's last post.

But I have to say, I'm somewhat disappointed in the Black press. They could have helped a great deal by either, flooding the airwaves with Sharpton's message, or pointing out the disparate press treatment. I would have thought that the latter would have been a truly "sexy" assignment.
I think you have to realize that most (if not all) of the Black Media is Conservative, and is not necessarily in Rev Al's corner. They don't mind him making his point, but they know he has no chance of winning the nomination, and the money he's spending could be best spent on somthing else. Then again maybe he's making some money through contributions, which will help fund some of his other programs. But this is the real world, and we have to put our best foot foward, and Blacks have to make a concerted effort to move in unisence in the same direction. I believe that in order for Blacks to be more effective they have to be united as a group, and not allow gameplaying by each segment in the Black Community to have its own separate agenda. We have to move as a group, and bargain for the best legitimate deal we can get, or withhold our support. We can allow ourselves to be split up which would not allow us to be effective in any Camp.

Dennis and Edwards are considered mainstream candidates as a results of being "White". Not so much so for Dennis since he has an extreme position on most issues, but the reason Edwards is not any higher in the Polls as some thought he would be, is because of a lack of Political Experience and no solid Political Base of National Supporters. Which I think is a problem for most of the others. Braun, Rev Al, Dennis, Edwards and Dean. Dean is different because he jumped on Bush early and built up a head of steam, but he weakened himself when he start to waffle on some issues.

But back to Rev Al, he entered the Race to make a point, but as I indicated before, I think Blacks have to try and make their point in other more effective ways. Since we as Blacks have to play our best Cards, and we will end up back with the Democrats, since Bush and the Republicans is not an option since they don't represent African American Issues.

leart3

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I don't think the media, or anyone, is afraid of Al Sharpton. First, I wouldn't be surprised if the Democratic Party encouraged Al to run. Having a black candidate helps to "energize" and activate black voters. In a race where surely every vote will count, certainly the DNC wants as many African Americans voting for the Democratic nominee against Bush as possible.

Second, as I've said before, _the media_ has no reason to fear Al. How can he in any way impact/hurt the media? Can he somehow reduce their ability to sell advertising or otherwise make money? Can he interfere with their income stream in any way? Can he influence the editorial process in any meaningful way? If you believe so, how?

Third, if _the media_ was afraid of Sharpton, ignoring him wouldn't be their strategy to defeat him. Think about it. The media has an extraordinary voice with which to shape and mold public opinion in America. Do you really think that they'd choose NOT to use that powerful tool against someone they were really afraid of? Why wouldn't they just seek to poison the electorate about Al? Why wouldn't they use the tool at their disposal? They've done it quite well against Iraq, against the Palestinian cause, etc. We don't get "balanced" views about those issues in this country. Check out some foreign newspapers if you doubt that. No, there's plenty of stuff that the media could use in an effort to besmirch Sharpton - and for the most part they haven't. Generally the media ignores those who they feel don't make a difference. As I've said before, they probably view Sharpton as a sideshow of sorts - so their attitude regarding coverage of him is probably - "why bother"? He hasn't made any terribly provocative or newsworthy statements, he's not really moving the needle in any polls, he hasn't raised any money - so why not focus on those that are making things happen in the campaign? Bob Graham dropped out of the race for exactly the same reasons.

Fourth, why would anyone be afraid of Al Sharpton? Why would corporate America be afraid of him? Why would the political establishment be afraid of him? As much as I like and respect him, and as much as I appreciate what he has added to the campaign, I see absolutely no reason why anyone would be _afraid_ of Al Sharpton. There are black folks out there who represent far greater "threats" than Sharpton. Louis Farrakhan, who mobilized a million brothers to march on DC, still probably represents a powerful force in this country and a greater threat to those afraid of a "black uprising". (Today, could Sharpton get 100,000 men for a march?) In terms of politics, Harold Ford and Jesse Jackson Jr., among others, are building the legislative track record to make serious future runs at the White House. Even someone like Cornell West or Michael Eric Dyson are far more articulate about our struggles, our current situation, and our liberation. While they operate outside of the political arena - no one has any fear that Sharpton will make any meaningful impact in the political arena either. If it is ideas and influencing people that are "dangerous", I'm not sure Sharpton is really that particularly powerful. Is he? If anything, maybe he is being "played" by the DNC to maximize black turn-out for the future nominee.


There is no passion to be found playing small, in settling for a life
that is less than the one you are capable of living. - Mandela


[This message was edited by MBM on January 13, 2004 at 11:47 AM.]
I don't think it's about being afraid of Rev Al either, but I don't believe the Democratic Party had anything to do with him running. I think his primary reason for running is to present a certain "Number" of Votes to use as a bargaining tool to try and convince Democratic Leaders to support certain Black Programs, and to hire more Blacks to fill important position in the Democratic Party.

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quote:
Originally posted by leart3:
I don't think it's about being afraid of Rev Al either, but I don't believe the Democratic Party had anything to do with him running. I think his primary reason for running is to present a certain "Number" of Votes to use as a bargaining tool to try and convince Democratic Leaders to support certain Black Programs, and to hire more Blacks to fill important position in the Democratic Party.


The DNC would be more than happy to grant Sharpton whatever he wants if he delivers a high percentage of the AA vote to the Democratic nominee. There's no doubt about that. In reality Sharpton's candidacy helps the Democratic party even more than it helps him.


There is no passion to be found playing small, in settling for a life
that is less than the one you are capable of living. - Mandela
I do think that the media has been very shady in the way that they've presented Al Sharpton's campaign. Ever notice when they do "polls" on various news stations, Sharpton AND Mosely's name rarely even come up on the screen. They'll have every candidate's name up there, with the so called percentage of people who would vote for them. Sharpton's name is often left off, and I do think it's being done on purpose.

It's as though they want to color the perception among people that "Sharpton really doesn't stand a chance, so don't waste your vote on him, don't take him seriously." I think they're very afraid of the approval he seems to be getting from young voters, and the fact that he pulls no punches and tells it like it is. He turned out to be a more formidable opponent than they thought was possible, and they're doing everything they can downplay any possible success he may have.

Many may agree with Sharpton, but feel that this country isn't ready for someone like him. I say that this country wasn't ready for a whole lot of things. We GOT them ready and are better for it. From what I see so far, I will be voting for him.
quote:
Originally posted by Toumani:

I think they're very afraid of the approval he seems to be getting from young voters, and the fact that he pulls no punches and tells it like it is.


Please explain why the media would be afraid of this. Wouldn't that make news? Sell papers? Advertising? Etc. Why would the media be afraid of young voters supporting Sharpton?


There is no passion to be found playing small, in settling for a life
that is less than the one you are capable of living. - Mandela
Toumani and JWC - perhaps I'm just misreading your statements. Please explain what you mean by "the media"? Maybe we're talking about different things. I remain confused about why TV, the press, radio, etc. has an interest one way or the other in Al Sharpton's electoral success. Further, I don't understand why anyone would be "afraid" of Sharpton - except perhaps for those Democratic candidates who are also seeking votes in states with high concentrations of AA voters, like South Carolina. For example, John Edwards should be afraid of Al Sharpton because John, from North Carolina, must do well in the South Carolina primary.

Again, someone please explain how Al Sharpton can negatively effect the media - how he can interfere with their income stream, stock valuations, or editorial influence? Perhaps there are other ways that Sharpton can "hurt" the media? How? Please also explain why you think that by ignoring him, that that implies that they fear him? Wouldn't ignoring him simply imply that he is making little or no news? Wouldn't that be consistent with the fact that he has poor poll results, has taken little newsworthy policy positions or campaign statements, and has raised NO money. Couldn't it be that instead of fearing him, that they just don't take him seriously? Couldn't that explain why there is less coverage of him? Couldn't they presume that his candidacy is less about getting to the White House and more about raising his personal PR profile - and they just don't want to participate in that? Again, wouldn't smearing him be a far more effective tool to reduce Sharpton's influence if they were _afraid_ of him?


There is no passion to be found playing small, in settling for a life
that is less than the one you are capable of living. - Mandela


[This message was edited by MBM on January 14, 2004 at 08:01 AM.]

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