Shooting down, Nmaginate

Oooooh, I'm a dirty, dirty bastard for wasting all of your precious time--using you, Nmaginate, to prove a point regarding the art of war: Never underestimate your enemy.

let someone give you props instead of doing the end zone dance on the 10 yard line...it is like guys who are not playas calling others playa haters and referring to themselves.....whats up with that kinda schit?

Don't get so upset, Kevin. Here's a tissue..blow your nose on it.

See, I tried to warn you people days ago to look out. Naaaaah...y'all didn't want to listen. Ya just had to keep shoveling that garbage about "how we do thangs in africanamerica.org"

Yeah, okay. Whatever you say, boss....

Damn. What's so funny is y'all don't even know what kind of literary terrorism y'all in for...

Welcome to my world

Ironhorse, it's crazy to watch a man make such a spectacular fool of himself. "Welcome to my world...""The art of war..." on a damn internet discussion board?!?

You've turned out to be a complete laughingstock... You are one pathetic, sorry brother.

quote:

Speaking of Western Imperialism, as you probably already know, it was interesting to find out, a few years ago, that, indeed, the first slave owners or, if you want to get technical, endentured slave owners, as well as the first land owners were black.

Let's get technical and analyze what you have pointed to as backing up what ever point it was you were trying to make.

The piece you pointed to speaks of the Black man that you claim was part of "the first slave owners" as a one time servant himself, and the article points out that racial slavery had yet to be defined thus he may have not been referred to as a slave but he was indeed himself an enslaved man which makes it impossible for him to be "one of the first slave owners." At some point the article does not say when, "Antonio the Negro" attained his freedom, which again points to the truth that he was not a free man which by default makes him one of the enslaved which again makes it impossible for him to have been "one of the first slave owners". After attaining his freedom he subsequently bought some land and some people to till the land... i.e. enslaved men and women.


Beyond the fallacy in your position, what is the point you plan to prove by pointing to a Black man as being an enslaver?

ENslaver

Nice word Faheem

Well, it seems IRONHORSE = HeruStar II

The same type of "you're lazy" if you can't find my point for me type of bullshit. The same type of off-the-wall, off-the-topic comments that he never seems to draw the points of relevance.

Be that as it may... I do love the tribute.

quote:

...as you probably already know, it was interesting to find out, a few years ago, that, indeed, the first slave owners or, if you want to get technical, endentured slave owners, as well as the first land owners were black.

............ VERSUS ........

quote:

Oh, by the way, if anyone is interested, here's the link to read on the first black man that owned white slaves in America

You know what, HERU II.......... the word CONTRADICTION comes to mine. (Hee! Hee!)

Or is LIAR more precise?

Whether you are (another) HERU or not, I don't really care but it's just interesting to note similarities...

quote:

...see how eager they are to want to learn about such an unbelievable subject: A black man owning a white man?

Thou dost presume too much. You will note the words QUALIFY and CONTEXT were used in my overall request for you to produce evidence along with the word RELEVANCE. Neither of them amount to me being ignorant or possessing some state of disbelief.

It's pretty funny but I've referenced that same site several times in different places.

quote:

posted July 24, 2003 07:21 PM

When Africans alone were made into slaves here in the US, there was a conscious decision made that wasn't based on "ignorance" Racism. No, a more sanitary logistical Racism created what is called racial slavery which followed an era where Blacks and poor Whites were treated "equally" as indentured servants.

Historically, the English only enslaved non-Christians, and not, in particular, Africans. And the status of slave (Europeans had African slaves prior to the colonization of the Americas) was not one that was life-long. A slave could become free by converting to Christianity

http://africanamerica.org/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/79160213/m/94570725/r/93270235#93270235

Now check out the Blue hyperlink words in the actual thread that statement of mine first appeared. See where it leads you...

No, Nmaginate, let's not get technical, and you don't need to waste time, side-stepping and backtracking, trying to save face for being such an overzealous, arrogant, conceited, obtuse little individual. Let's just stick to the subject I originally posed to you in general conversation:

quote:

Speaking of Western Imperialism, as you probably already know, it was interesting to find out, a few years ago, that, indeed, the first slave owners or, if you want to get technical, endentured slave owners, as well as the first land owners were black.

Let me emphasize that I was talking about indentured slaves. Indentured slaves were, at that time, both black and white, and, as a matter of fact, the English didn't even refer to themselves as 'white,' they referred to themselves as christians.

The problem I have with you, Nmaginate, and other people that think like you on this site, is that you think just because you are intelligent it gives you license to be rude, disrespectful, and obnoxious to people that don't 'get down' like you do in africanamerica.org. What right do you have to chastise people because they don't dance to your tune?

You, and some of these other constipated individuals, display such a close-minded, immature, elitist mentality--scoffing at people that you don't think deserve to carry a conversation in a particular forum.

You, as well as, Faheem, can't speak for anyone in regards to how they choose to interact on this site. There are people that have much heavier credentials and professional responsibilities than myself or you, for that matter, yet, they either choose to just read various discussions or respond with simple comments--it doesn't mean they can't hang, it means they just might not want to be bothered with the rude and arrogant way in which you thinkyou people 'get down' in here--it may just mean that's all they want to do--pass through and glance.

Most of you don't know how stupid you make yourselves look when you interact with people you don't have a clue about, trying to rationalize how you behave, with pseudo intellectual explanations--MBM: When I told him about the rate at which black women are imprisoned is faster than the rate in which black men are being imprisoned, instead of just asking for clarification, he just popped up with a big ass statistical chart--no, he didn't bother to realize I was referring to the rate at which females were being imprisoned,not the total number of black females v.s. black males imprisoned.

By the way, Nmaginate, I answered your challenge of five things a person [middle to elite class]should do--you still haven't answered my challenge to you: what are you doing to get things straight,and be self-critical?

Nmaginate, you're nothing but a stuck up, arrogant, inconsiderate, tactless, uncouth, insulting sore loser that lacks the courteousy and integrity to admit when you are wrong.

IRON~ you are too funny for words. All these excuses for why you said something you knew (or now know) is "jacked up" -- both by you saying it as you did and by those of us who have called you on your inaccuracy.

quote:

Let me emphasize that I was talking about indentured slaves. Indenturedslaves were, at that time, both black and white, and, as a matter of fact, the English didn't even refer to themselves as 'white,' they referred to themselves as christians.

Dude, I prefer a real meal, one fresh and direct. I can do without the REGURGITATION.

Indentured "Slaves"?? Huh??
Pretty awkward phrasing, IMO... lol

And what exactly is "my tune"?
And where exactly is the evidence that says Blacks were the "first land owners" [in American Colonies]?

Again... CONTEXT, QUALIFICATION and RELEVANCE seem to be too hard for you to grasp or relate.

quote:

You, and some of these other constipated individuals, display such a close-minded, immature, elitist mentality--scoffing at people that you don't think deserve to carry a conversation in a particular forum.

Boy you got some issues...

"...people that you don't think deserve to carry a conversation..."

Where do you get this bullshit?
If and when ANYBODY has a point or opinion they want to express... WONDERFUL. But given the nature of a FORUM which is not to be confused with a (personal) Blog, someone who presents an unfounded and untenable idea and, as you have, factually flawed information, then they have to face the consequences of having opinions based on faulty information.

That's something that goes for everybody. This is not a Blog. We don't just "Take Your Word For It". PERIOD.

And, BTW, nobody takes my word for it either nor would I request them to do so. This is BARE MINIMUM stuff, IRON~

You type all of this nonsense while at the same time trying to employ other professional commitments argument as a reason for why you didn't offer supporting information upfront and on your own or upon initial request.

quote:

What right do you have to chastize because they don't dance to your tune?

Again, what is "my tune"?

If me requesting you to provide information in support of something you said (and by extension for you to fully reveal your position/argument) is a bad "tune" in your view then Color Me Bad. Whether by debate, discussion or dialogue it profits you nor me nothing at all for you (or me) to present a half-assed argument, let alone one based on questionable accuracy or intent.

You profess to be an "educator" but my point is that you can't and haven't educated me because you have not presented a compelling position or argument that demonstrates a way of seeing things -- i.e. that bit of Slavery and Indentured Servitude history -- in ways I may not have seen it before.

Just as I alluded to earlier, I can and will readily admit or point to, even defer to other posters who are "smarter" than myself on any given subject. That's because I am aware the limits of my knowledge and perspective... That is to say I know I can stand to learn from others. But when someone like you uses all sorts of excuses for not presenting a full, factual and compelling counterargument/counterposition to the one I may have then there is no way I can even perceive that I have something to learn from you. I would like to think that I could... but you make that too damn hard because you (and others who have registered gripes like yours) keep falling too damn short.

Everyone deserves the right to "carry a conversation" but it is the right of everyone targeted (i.e. the whole forum) to have the benefit of information, factual information that will "carry" the conversation to its fullest extent. You... you were negligent in your duty to "carry" the conversation you started forward to its next logical, fact verifying step. Not only did you attempt to abandon that conversation but you also dropped the Support Black Leadership, Leading Blacks discussion...

So you tell me what you "deserve"?

quote:

Nmaginate, you're nothing but a stuck up, arrogant, inconsiderate, tactless, uncouth, insulting sore loser that lacks the courteousy and integrity to admit when you are wrong.

Thank you, sir!

May I have another?

I most certainly hope you feel that rhetoric of yours has had the desired effect. But, since I'll claim all of those things you say about me (for the purpose of discussion)... tell me what you really think that does?

Ooohhh!! You called me "inconsiderate"...
I'm so sadden.

Ooohhh!! You called me "arrogant"...
I'm so madden.

Ooohhh!! You called me "tactless"...
I'm just so hurt.

NOW WHAT??

*Yawn*

Two posts, all that yip yap, and you still haven't returned the challenge you originally imposed on me:

quote:

Name Five Things The Black Middle Class or Ruling Elite Need To Get Straight and how they(us) must be SELF-CRITICAL.

Yep, sounds to me like you're one of those sorry ass negroes that isn't part of the solution but part of the problem.

You don't impress me, Nmaginate--to me, you and the rest of your boorish buddies are nothing but a classroom full of high school students in an honors class--all the brains in the world but no hometraining.

You want to impress me, Nmaginate? Act like your mama raised you better than how you've been portraying yourself on this site.

Okay, when you actually fall asleep... Please dream about how your mention of Indentured "Slaves" was even remotely relevant to your chosen topic: SUPPORTING BLACK LEADERS (Leading Blacks)

Let me know what you come up with when you wake up.

Signed Insulting LOSER ... lol

Another bruised ego bites the dust.

I may have a lot of EGO but nothing you have done has "bruised" mine... You just supply entertainment that's, ironically, pretty consistent with the Cries Of "White Boys" on another site...

By saying silly shit like "you're inconsiderate", X, Y, Z... ya'll actually think those mere words are Sticks & Stones.

You lost the debate, Nmaginate--you lost the debate a few hundred posts ago when you were too dense to realize I was talking about indentured slaves.

Once again, I'll ask you directly--are you contributing anything to your community other than the lip you give on this website? No.

You are a loser, Nmaginate, with an easily bruisable ego.

quote:

You are a loser, Nmaginate, with an easily bruisable ego.

Thank you, sir.
May I have another?

quote:

First off, Ironhorse, as irrelevant as Nmaginate says it is, that link does not support the statement made earlier, that "the first slave owners or, if you want to get technical, endentured slave owners, as well as the first land owners were black. It says that there were some who did, but these ones mentioned here are not described as the first servant-owners. - VOX

quote:

The piece you pointed to speaks of the Black man that you claim was part of "the first slave owners" as a one time servant himself, and the article points out that racial slavery had yet to be defined thus he may have not been referred to as a slave but he was indeed himself an enslaved man which makes it impossible for him to be "one of the first slave owners." - FAHEEM

Yes! I lost the debate.

NOW WHAT??

Uhmmm, Ironhorse ...

I've been following a few threads in which you make a (unsupported) statement, get called on the statement's lack of support, or someone disagrees with you, and then you go off on a "you people here at AA.org" rant. This is then followed by some "why are you attacking me" rant. Then, a "I got the better of you" victory dance.

I'm lead to the conclude that, while you certainly can turn a phrase, you are either: insecure in your positions, insincere in your purpose for posting here, suffering with a persecutorial disorder, or a combination of the above.

Discusions are advanced through challenge and documentation. It's nothing personal, this approach just helps to differentiate between fact and opinion. Why do you find this approach objectionable. Simply put, secure positions are supported by fact, if not, they should be clearly denoted as being opinion based. And, you know the expression, "Opinions are like a$$holes, we all have them; and they all stink."

This leads to my second supposition, that you are insincere in your purpose for posting here. Is your purpose to pontificate, wow the board with your superior intellect, or simply see your thoughts and opinions appear in writing? If so, expect to be challenged.

Lastly, having gone through a lot of threads (though admittedly, not all), I have yet to find a thread in which the "rudeness, inconsideration, insults" or whatever, was not preceeded by your attacking (figuratively) someone else, as being ignorant, weak, dense, etc (my characterizations). It is, then, that you position yourself as an iconoclastic innocent.

While I disagree with any number of the posters on this board, it has been my experience that flames are rarely undeserved.

The mere fact, Kweli4real, that you, Vox, and Faheem feel the need to come to the defense of this character, Nmaginate, speaks volumes--the mere fact that each of you feels the need to hop in and give each other pats on the back after having made a little discussion is even more ridiculous--are you people in such need of ego-stroking and moral support that you have to pat each other on the back after every comment? You guys remind me of a divorced housewives club, "Oh, honey, you're doing so well without that abusive, male chauvenist ex husband of yours...you go gurl."



...and I'm still waiting on this impish character, Nmaginate, to post anything of any significance in regards to contributing to his own race other than posting overblown, boldface words, as if, somehow the words could jump through my monitor and bite me

It doesn't have to be anything grandiose, Nmaginate--have you ever donated a book to RIF? Have you ever given any clothes to the Salvation Army? Have you ever donated Campbell's soup can labels to your local elementary school? Come on, Nmaginate, share with us some of the things you've done that entales self-criticism? You can't, can you? I'm still waiting, Nmaginate....

Now, back to you, Kweli4Real. Let me dispel your little armchair psychology diagnosis:

quote:

I'm lead to the conclude that, while you certainly can turn a phrase, you are either: insecure in your positions, insincere in your purpose for posting here, suffering with a persecutorial disorder, or a combination of the above.

*Proping my feet up on Kweli4Real's desk*

So, tell me, doc, what else is wrong with me? Oh, lemme guess: I suffer from manic depression and a myriad of dissociative orders.

Okay, Dr. Kweli, I'll take two Flonaise pills and call you in the morning

As far as Anthony Johnson goes, whether he was a slave first before he became an indentured slave owner is irrelevent. The fact remains that he owned indentured slaves whom were black and white. What part of that do you not understand? It doesn't matter whether he was oneof the first or the first indentured slave owners, the point is the man owned indentured slaves. Another point was the rate at which blacks in that area began to aquire land--whitey couldn't have that, which is why they began to switch the definition of what a slave is over time.

Now, do I need to go back and paste the link on this evidence too or are you suckers going to keep nit picking over every ounce of the sources found? See, that's why I'll never completely subscribe to the way you 'get down' in africanamerica.org. Even if evidence is sited you think it's your duty to dispel that source. The fact remains--I brought evidence to the forum about the history of Anthony Johnson. That was my purpose from the begining and that is all I saught to accomplish, but that wasn't good enough for you obtuse, stubborn, hard-headed, elderly women--you gotta talk about slavery in general, of which there were so many different definitions, changes in laws and distinctions during the 1600's and 1700's.

The bottom line is you refuse to accept that a newcomer could come in here, and in such a short amount of time, turn you rigid suckers upside down with a mixture of a little wit, a little ingenuity, and good ole' fashioned common sense *smirking*

Everybody is intelligent, educated and gainfully employed in here, give or take a few--so tell me something: where is the entertainment in everybody doing the same damn thing? Burping on and on about a particular subject, flinging a few high browed words, copying and pasting a source or two from where you quoted something from and then getting rave reviews from your stuck up buddies?

There's no entertainment in that--there's no excitment in that. Fuck that shit--lemme tell you something--yeah, I've written all kinds of proposals and journals n' shit--so what--I came here to enjoy myself, and it seems, unfortunatley, like I've accomplished that task, at your expense

"Who is this IRONHORSE asshole????"


"I don't know but I'm going to give him a piece of my mind!!!"

BAAAAAAAAAAA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!

Y'all crack me the fuck up!!!!!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by IRONHORSE:
What's so funny is y'all don't even know what kind of literary terrorism y'all in for...

Welcome to my world

So your world is about literary terrorism towards your own peeps huh? How possitive and uplifting for people of African descent.

I've been reading the threads you have posted and commented on. You are way too wrapped up in your own ego. Chill. Find a higher cause that YOURSELF to fight for, brother.

What's so funny, Oshun, is you, and everyone else, think that by telling me you're "reading my threads" that I'm going to cry?

Come on, people. Stop treating this like an elementary school and there's some big principal up in the sky that's going to punish me for being such a baaaaaaaad boy

I found a higher cause years ago, Oshun. I don't need advice on how to put my efforts to better use--thank you, anyway, for your concern.

Like I said before--I came here to enlighten and entertain--I can't help it if a few big babies don't like my way of having fun--just like they can't help being snobbish, rude, arrogant assholes to people they don't think match up to being worthy of interacting with on this site.

The funny thing is, all these highly intelligent people on here, and nobody has the piece of mind to just walk away--they're cyber rubber-necking. It's entertaining

"The bottom line is you refuse to accept that a newcomer could come in here, and in such a short amount of time, turn you rigid suckers upside down with a mixture of a little wit, a little ingenuity, and good ole' fashioned common sense *smirking*

Everybody is intelligent, educated and gainfully employed in here, give or take a few--so tell me something: where is the entertainment in everybody doing the same damn thing? Burping on and on about a particular subject, flinging a few high browed words, copying and pasting a source or two from where you quoted something from and then getting rave reviews from your stuck up buddies?

There's no entertainment in that--there's no excitment in that. Fuck that shit--lemme tell you something--yeah, I've written all kinds of proposals and journals n' shit--so what--I came here to enjoy myself, and it seems, unfortunatley, like I've accomplished that task, at your expense." By Ironhorse

"So, tell me, doc, what else is wrong with me? Oh, lemme guess: I suffer from manic depression and a myriad of dissociative orders." By Ironhorse

If I were so inclined, I would tend to agree with your self diagnosis; while specifying Megalomania.

But I'm not so inclined and will rest on your words speak volumes.

quote:

Originally posted by IRONHORSE:
What's so funny, Oshun, is you, and everyone else, think that by telling me you're "reading my threads" that I'm going to cry?[quote]

Who said I or anyone else wanted you to cry. I said I had been reading your threads to let you know I was making as informed a comment on you posting content as possible and not just shooting from the hip, or judging your posting style from this thread alone... A.K.A. being unfair or jusgemental.

[quote]Come on, people. Stop treating this like an elementary school and there's some big principal up in the sky that's going to punish me for being such a baaaaaaaad boy

Most posters treat this as a community. A community deals with a certain level of respect and intellectual content. That's all.

quote:

I found a higher cause years ago, Oshun. I don't need advice on how to put my efforts to better use--thank you, anyway, for your concern.

Well, why don't you discuss it, post about it then?

quote:

Like I said before--I came here to enlighten and entertain--I can't help it if a few big babies don't like my way of having fun--just like they can't help being snobbish, rude, arrogant assholes to people they don't think match up to being worthy of interacting with on this site.

And the other people on here are arrogant?...lol.. How about coming here, or anywhere for that matter, to learn and share also? Balance is necessary brother.

quote:

The funny thing is, all these highly intelligent people on here, and nobody has the piece of mind to just walk away--they're cyber rubber-necking. It's entertaining

So are you comparing yourself as a cyber car crash? Very fitting.

I've been "walking away"..and I can see many others who have too, but since we have to READ here, it's hard to follow the direction a thread takes and simultaneousely ignore all your very distracting posts about yourself.

Nmaginate likes to point out the contradictions in posters like you, and often that is entertaining and very LOGICAL.

On the other hand, if you are suggesting the approach of ignoring you to make you go away, Will do.

I just don't want to see AfricanAmerica.org turn into Black Planet. You are bringing a BET level of conversation to an African/Black PBS station brother.

quote:

As far as Anthony Johnson goes, whether he was a slave first before he became an indentured slave owner is irrelevent. The fact remains that he owned indentured slaves whom were black and white. What part of that do you not understand? It doesn't matter whether he was oneof the first or the first indentured slave owners, the point is the man owned indentured slaves.

Again, your chosen topic was: SUPPORTING BLACK LEADERSHIP (Leading Blacks)

Your "point" about Anthony Johnson was RELEVANT to that subject how? "Whitey couldn't have that" is RELEVANT to that subject how?

What was ever the point to your "point" as it relates to what the actual subject was? (Supporting Black Leadership) Please "enlighten" us on how "the man owning indentured servants" is RELEVANT...

Also, when you said:
"the first slave owners or, if you want to get technical, endentured slave owners, as well as the first land owners were black."
... we sure do get the point that your "point" had nothing to do with the idea of being "FIRST". lol

quote:

Originally posted by Oshun Auset:

I just don't want to see AfricanAmerica.org turn into Black Planet. You are bringing a BET level of conversation to an African/Black PBS station brother.

It won't sister!

quote:

Originally posted by IRONHORSE:
Don't get so upset, Kevin. Here's a tissue..blow your nose on it.

See, I tried to warn you people days ago to look out. Naaaaah...y'all didn't want to listen. Ya just had to keep shoveling that garbage about "how we do thangs in africanamerica.org"

Yeah, okay. Whatever you say, boss....

Damn. What's so funny is y'all don't even know what kind of literary terrorism y'all in for...

Welcome to my world

upset? man don't f-king flatter yourself with that bullschit....you are just on a mission to be disruptive and I just took a time out to tell you why you come across as a f-king fool.....I personally do not give a schit about any afflicted negro, racist azz white or any other person who is trying to resolve their social self-adequacy affliction at the expense of others.....since you are the dissertation type....go read about pathological behaviors associated with race and socioeconomic class.....and you will see what the indicators are for psychological dysfunction(s)......I find your azz amusing more than anything.....whether you are white, black or green......

Ummm, Kevin41, you're pissed off. Some of you prove, time and time again, that you have no sense of humor--too busy trying to analyze, interpret, and offer advice that wasn't asked for.

Nmaginate--If you're going to base your entire argument on one overlooked word, "first," your argument is even more pathetic than I originally thought. So, yes, you lost the debate, Nmaginate

First, you want to try to distract from your error by talking about and posting your own link on slavery. Now, you want to flip the script again and try to save yourself on one word--first.

Secondly, I answered your challenge, which lead, once again, away from the subject of leadership (I don't recall talking about "leadership" which will be explained later)--I expressed what I've done to contribute to 'a higher cause'(Oshun, you can scroll back too, to find out what I'm talking about)--black children to young black adults. I'm not going to repeat myself--you can just scroll back to my original statement.

Thirdly, you, Nmaginate, were the one that decided to lead away from the subject of leadership, once again, by stating that you wanted proof of a black man being one of the first indentured slave owners.

And, once again, you haven't offered one shred of evidence as to accepting the challenge of what you originally bestowed upon me--Name Five Things The Black Middle Class or Ruling Elite Need To Get Straight and how they(us) must be SELF-CRITICAL. I've named several things I've done, Nmaginate, what have you done?

Let's forget ALLLLL of these brilliantly quoted comments that were supported with biased responses--let's stick to the heart of the matter--did Anthony Johnson own indentured slaves?

Vox, I know what my source discusses on the difference between indentured slavery and racial slavery. The bottom line, as especially defined by the English, is, slavery,period is wrong. Here's something to sink your teeth in: indentured slaves That was the subject at hand, not racial slaves, not the fact that Anthony Johnson was, indeed, himself, a slave before but the fact that Anthony Johnson was, indeed, an indentured slave owner.

Furthermore, the topic of a "black leader" and a "a leading black person" was already rectified a long time ago--it was already discussed that I wasn't referring to Colin or Condi as 'leaders,' but noooooooo, you had to get overzealous, once again, Nmaginate, and give me this overblown distinction about not putting Condi and Colin in the same sentence as Booker T. Washington and Martin Luther King Jr.

Now, after all that, if you think you're still right through all this drawn out, mutated and dilluted debate, fine, but remember this, my boy, I've answered all of your challenges and dispeled all of your accusations (if I've missed anything, please feel free to post them) but you haven't answered any of mine.

quote:

Let's forget ALLLLL of these brilliantly quoted comments that were supported with biased responses--let's stick to the heart of the matter--did Anthony Johnson own indentured slaves?

RELEVANCE please... For the umpteenth time.

quote:

Now, after all that, if you think you're still right through all this drawn out, mutated and dilluted debate, fine, but remember this, my boy, I've answered all of your challenges and dispeled all of your accusations (if I've missed anything, please feel free to post them) but you haven't answered any of mine.

The very question of RELEVANCE above and not to (mention your inaccuracy now called "overlooked") shows how you have not met any challenged or dispelled a single thing.

Anthony Johnson owning his own indentured servants means what? Proves what? Again, a question of RELEVANCE both to your Chosen Topic from your thread and the importance of that Factoid (Devoid of any logical or coherent position/argument about anything).

Anthony Johnson had indentured servants. Gee thanks for the non-enlightenment. As you see, the record shows I was long since acquainted with the very source you quoted.

So, now WHAT?? You got anything else to add to that factoid or is that the extent of your ability to apply and process knowledge - i.e. REGURGITATION with no particular regard for being coherent or relevant?

For someone who makes comical claims to be an educator or enlightener you are sure falling short on both counts. Again, you've quoted from a source I cited here in 2003. So, obviously, you were not informing of something that was new to me.

What I had hoped for, if you were/are anything what you profess to be or if you actually had any Intellectual Fortitude, was for you to present your own perspective about the importance, relevance and significance of the notion you mention as to have perspective that may be different from mine and perhaps one I could learn from by, at the very least, a particular aspect of your articulation that would shine a new light on the subject.

Instead of doing that, you keeping singing, "Turn The Lights Down Low"... You have made yourself "undeserving" by your own lack of a developed opinion/position/argument.

And, For The Record, you brought up the "First Slave/Servant Owner", "First Land Owner" BS in your own topic which, by all appearances (and by your lack of connecting the two), was IRRELEVANT to what you were talking about. It's not my fault you can't get your shit straight and I'm not inclined to buy your bullshit.

You shouldn't say such utter bullshit if you don't what that shit checked. PERIOD!

(Oh and I'm still laughing... SERIOUSLY!!! )

For the GAGILIENTH TIME What have you done, as a [self-proclaimed] middle class, elite in the effort of self-criticism? What have you done to contribute to your community?

I'll keep asking you this question, Nmaginate, until you answer my question.

The relevence is clear, Nmaginate, you just too hard-headed to accept it.

quote:

Originally posted by IRONHORSE:

What have you done to contribute to your community?

I'll keep asking you this question, Nmaginate, until you answer my question.

And you can keep asking IRRELEVANT, off-topic stuff all you want.

I don't talk about myself in personal terms, contrary to your idea about people here taking things 'too personal'.

Also I have not proclaimed myself to be part of any "elite". That's just more evidence of your pre-conception and misrepresentation problems.

1, 2, 3, 4 and 5... I have not seen your FIVE THINGS! What you did post was some irrelevant and exposed bullshit (via Faheem) talking about yourself. My question wasn't about you as and individual. Hence, you have not addressed my challenge a la M.E. Dyson in the least.

You bitched the fuck out and took the shit way too personal showing how you've been projecting your issues all along.

As the brother said:
No one here cares what you do and truthfully those who do work on behalf of our people feel no need to brag about it yet alone try and use it to lift one self up in the eyes of others.

HA HA HA HA HA!!!! I take things too seriously, and you posted your little temper tantrum big, black, bold fonts? What were you thinking? Did you think that was going to make me flench or something?

quote:

I don't talk about myself in personal terms, contrary to your idea about people here taking things 'too personal'.

I'll take your answer as "No, I haven't done shit to contribute to my community. I just sit on my ass and hug my keyboard all day."

quote:

No one here cares what you do and truthfully those who do work on behalf of our people feel no need to brag about it yet alone try and use it to lift one self up in the eyes of others

And that is the reason why I don't give a damn about how I conduct myself in africanamerica.org so, I'm going to do what I do best--keep you on your toes.

Everything you've said, Nmaginate, is irrelevent. All you do is side-step and back track while your audience cheers you on. Instead of just accepting the fact that you were wrong--instead of admitting that you've taken this debate in every direction imaginable, trying to distract from the fact that you were wrong, you keep yapping about nothing. I'm a man, Nmaginate--I can admit when I was wrong--I overlooked the word "first" while editing my post. You've been screaming for nearly three pages about nothing.

You brought it up--you wanted proof and I gave it to you--plain and simple, and you've been yapping on and on. The way you and your friends act is no different than the way those goons acted over at Blackplanet--running in cliques, supporting each other whether even when you're wrong.

Where this bullshit came from of thinking its taboo to discuss personal accomplishments is ignorant--it's not even a question of being proud or bragging about what I've done--it's just cold, hard facts, and if you think I give a damn whether you or anyone else on this site cares or not, you're even more dense than I thought.

Let's review this challenge you presented to me one more time:

quote:

Name Five Things The Black Middle Class or Ruling Elite Need To Get Straight and how they(us) must be SELF-CRITICAL.

Hmmmm, correct me if I'm wrong ,Nmaginate, but doesn't the word "us" imply, we, as in you and me? Oh, I forgot, you don't like to talk about yourself. Just forget it, dude, because no matter what I say, you're still going to act the fool because your ego is bruised.

Move on to the next topic please

Silly dude... I've still yet to see 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 from you.

And Black Middle Class is just that: a class or group. Ruling Elite is yet another group. The Bill Cosby-esque "lower economic folk" decrees wasn't about individuals so much. It was more about things those in that "class" generally were admonished to do. And, as Cosby attempted to say, there was so part of a "Bargain" they were collectively, generally suppose to hold up.

So my question by way of the Challenge is:
What is the Black Middle Class' Part Of The Bargain?

And, again, I didn't ask you one thing about yourself. Your Support Black Leaders thread wasn't about things you do per se as I recall you saying things like:

"I'm not disagreeing with you in regards to Condi and Colin..."

So, obviously, when all else failed you... you wanted to jump off-track and off-topic even more by trying to get "personal".

"No, I haven't done shit to contribute to my community. I just sit on my ass and hug my keyboard all day."

Yes, of course, that's me.

NOW WHAT???

What does any of that, assuming its true for the sake of whatever relevance it has to your argument... what does any of that do with respect to this Who To "Beat Up" bullshit you listed earlier? And your "overlooked" (my ass) arguments?

quote:

You want to beat up on somebody, beat up on the brother in Georgia that broke free from the balif, shot and killed two deputies and killed a retired CIA operative--beat up on the sister that ran over a man that had a wife and two children because she was high on crack but have at least some compassion for people like Condi and Colin.

Seems to me you had no problems with separating the discussion between things personal and the larger social discussion then. But, oh, the "Beat Up" thing is something you take personal, huh?

It's your right to "Beat Up" on brother and sister X, Y, Z but the Colin's and Condi's should be given more "compassion" despite their policy stances?

Anyway... It is rather funny how you have these ROWE Level Conspiracy Theories and Insecurities about who has to dance to my "tune", etc., etc.

But thanks for the entertainment.
Oops! I guess that's EDUtainment coming from you Mr. EnLIGHTener!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by IRONHORSE:
Ummm, Kevin41, you're pissed off. Some of you prove, time and time again, that you have no sense of humor--too busy trying to analyze, interpret, and offer advice that wasn't asked for.[QUOTE]

**Sorry mr. resident psychiatrist....but once again you are giving yourself a warped form of self-flattery in thinking that the bullschit you spew has that kind of clout....look up the term expressiveness....it does not necessarily have to be an indicator or one's emotional state...but you have succeeded in coming in here with your bullschit and being mildy....and I do mean mildly....disruptive......

quote:

So my question by way of the Challenge is:
What is the Black Middle Class' Part Of The Bargain?

Damn--now you want to flip the script again.

Next topic please

quote:

**Sorry mr. resident psychiatrist....but once again you are giving yourself a warped form of self-flattery in thinking that the bullschit you spew has that kind of clout....look up the term expressiveness....it does not necessarily have to be an indicator or one's emotional state...but you have succeeded in coming in here with your bullschit and being mildy....and I do mean mildly....disruptive......

BAAAAAAAAA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!

Mildly disruptive? I've only been in here two weeks, kid, and y'all are already afraid of this site being turned into Blackplanet!!

BAAAAAAAAAA HA HA HA HA H HA HA HA!!!!

I can assure you I won't allow it to get to that point but you guys are hilarious!!! I have to admit, I didn't have this much fun in Blackplanet.....

Y'all are scampering around, analysing every word, every phrase I type...I haven't even done anything yet!

You STAY killing me, kid!!!!

BAAAAAAAAAAAAA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA!!!!

negro please........

by the way, negroes love attention....but too many go about garnering it using the wrong methods....

quote:

Originally posted by IRONHORSE:

quote:

So my question by way of the Challenge is:
What is the Black Middle Class' Part Of The Bargain?

Damn--now you want to flip the script again.

That was always the Topic and the "script". You just don't know have to read.

But let's just say you conveniently OVERLOOKED that...

Name Five Things The Black Middle Class or Ruling Elite Need To Get Straight and how they(us) must be SELF-CRITICAL.

.............Only five, that is much too conservative considering the reality of that failing Black middle class, and/or the self-serving ruling Black elite.

More so than any racism on the part of Caucasians, or any shortcomings of the underclass, an entire library of information exists indicting the Black middleclass and/or the self-serving ruling Black elite as being disgraceful, treasonous, incompetent, un-American, sleazy, anti-Black, bending over backwards to serve every other ethnic group but the Black community, etc.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton