Sharpton Pledges Fight Against Homophobia Among Blacks

BY JAMAL WATSON
August 3, 2005
URL: http://www.nysun.com/article/17991

At a gathering last week at the West Village apartment of a gay rights activist, Allen Roskoff, the Reverend Al Sharpton took to the floor and launched an initiative likely to make some of his most loyal supporters uncomfortable.

Rev. Sharpton has pledged to jumpstart a grassroots movement that would address the issue of homophobia in the black community. That problem has undoubtedly contributed to the epidemic rates of HIV/AIDS cases among African-Americans, particularly black women.

Rev. Sharpton's strongest detractors, to be sure, will be black preachers who remain in denial, even as the deadly disease claims the lives of those who sit in their pews week after week.

The failure by the black religious community to tackle homophobia within its ranks has been a travesty and has further undermined the black clergy's efforts to become leading moral voices when it comes to eliminating "isms." Black clerics must stop ignoring the reality that the black community they claim to represent includes gay men and lesbians, many of whom spend years in hiding because they fear their lifestyle will be considered morally and socially unacceptable.

"There is latent homophobia in our community," Rev. Sharpton said.

Al Sharpton was the only presidential candidate last year who unapologetically supported gay marriage, surprising critics who have tried to label him as a one-issue activist.

He forcefully spoke out against the Bush administration - in alliance with some black preachers - when it threatened last year to support a constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage.

"They tried to say that being gay is a sin, and I said that adultery is a sin," Rev. Sharpton said. "Adultery is responsible for breaking up more marriages, but do we put that in the Constitution? It's absurd."

All the talk about preventing gay people from being able to marry one another had the effect of bolstering homophobic views. Tragically, the discourse failed to deal with the staggering HIV/AIDS infection rates in the black community, which have gone unnoticed and unaddressed by the general public.

Rev. Sharpton's initiative is being coordinated by his associate Marjorie Fields-Harris, executive director of the National Action Network - the civil rights organization founded in 1991 by Rev. Sharpton. It will include forums at public schools and churches aimed at educating the black community about AIDS and the dangers of homophobia. Rev. Sharpton said he plans to launch public-service announcements on black radio and to make the issue central to his civil-rights work in the upcoming year.

For Rev. Sharpton, the issue is a personal one.

His mentor, Bayard Rustin, a leading figure in the civil rights movement, was targeted by the FBI's J. Edgar Hoover because he was gay. Time after time, Hoover threatened to "out" the leader who was one of the coordinators of the 1963 March on Washington and a close confidant of Martin Luther King Jr.

King maintained an alliance and friendship with Rustin, though other black ministers in King's camp urged that Rustin be kicked out of the movement.

Rev. Sharpton, who marched in the Gay Pride Parade this year for the first time, is perhaps the very person who can make a dent in the rampant homophobic views so entrenched in the African-American community. Over the past 20 years, he has emerged as a credible civil rights leader who has a track record of bringing African-Americans together.

"I think that Rev. Sharpton is an ideal candidate to be talking about these issues," the executive director of the Black AIDS Institute, Phil Wilson, said. The institute is the country's first black HIV/AIDS policy center dedicated to reducing HIV/AIDS health disparities by mobilizing black institutions and individuals in efforts to confront the epidemic.

"He has been outspoken on issues that impact marginalized people for a long time," Mr. Wilson said, adding that other preachers should follow Rev. Sharpton's lead.

"Historically, the black church has been a sanctuary for black people," Mr. Wilson said. "But sadly, black churches have not stepped up to the plate on HIV as they have historically stepped up to the plate on other issues."

The failure to act has meant new cases of HIV/AIDS, the likes of which we have never seen before, and a callous attitude among some in the African-American community who are unable to see the humanity of their black gay and lesbian brothers and sisters.

"We should be celebrating the humanity in all of us, rather than diminishing the humanity in some of us," Mr. Wilson said.

I say amen to that.

© MBM

Original Post
quote:
Over the past 20 years, he has emerged as a credible civil rights leader who has a track record of bringing African-Americans together.


ek Is Jamal Watson kin to Al Sharpton??

Other than a few other exaggerations, I think the article is spot-on. I'm interested in seeing how vocal Al gets and how much he pursues the issue. I had no idea he openly supported gay marriage when he ran for President. Bravo!
Confused I don't know how anyone claiming to be a Christian honoring God can be pro homosexual at the same time and even deny that homosexuality is a sin. Homophobia is an igorant term not mentioned in the bible but promoted by politicers to glorify homosexuality and separate it from other sexual sins. A real Christian acknowledges that all sex outside of marriage between a man and a women is sin as is written in the scripture and this can't be ignored. To do so is to worship homosexuality rather than submit to the will of God, and is also to dishonor God by lying about it in order to exploit Christianity to excuse the sin like homosexuality. So to discourage 'homophobia' means what? To encourage and santify the sin of homosexuality? That's like encouraging the cause as a cure for the illness.

quote:
ROMANS 1
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Yep.....like the war, Christianity is used to justify all kinds of things that do not really seem Christian in nature...that is why I believe in faith.....but suspect about religion.......it is man's presentation of faith.....which is usually accompanied by some motive....it is ironic out of all of the sexual deviations available to man....homosexuals impose theirs on society more than anyone else.....
Hmmm ... a couple of things got me about this article too!

First of all, it's the way it was written to keep tying together HIV/AIDS and homosexuality into the increase of infection in the Black community. Heterosexual Black women are the latest group to be increasing in infection rates! And then that really makes me wonder about the "down low" thing happening to our men. Perhaps it is a little more common than some of us would like to think it is! ek ek

Second, is there really rampant homophobia in the black community? I mean, almost all of us know a gay or lesbian person ... went to school with at least one, for sure! Big Grin So I don't think we're scared of them, per se. And us, being an accepting kind of people ... I dunno ... maybe I just haven't noticed? Is the problem really bad out there for our homosexual brothers and sisters? Or is this just the Rev. Al trying to get a little air time and taking up the cause for advocating gay marriage? Confused

It seems as though Rev. Sharpton is stepping up his game a bit. He's been doing a lot of talking lately, and I appreciate him being out there and getting heard when it comes to issues of concern to the Black community even though I don't always agree with the matter being discussed. More of our advocates should be out there doing the same thing. These are both issues within the Black community, whether it's an issue with anyone else or not. And we need to acknowledge it and deal with out issues, whether anyone else does or not. Roll Eyes
This was interesting ... I guess maybe it answers my second question, eh? Confused

Black Ministers, Politicians Meet to Counter Surge in Anti-Gay Sermons

Date: Monday, August 01, 2005
By: David B. Caruso, Associated Press


NEW YORK (AP) - The words that the Rev. James A. Forbes chose to share with the roomful of black gay and lesbian faithful might have come straight from the civil rights struggles of the 1960s. Forbes reminded his listeners that discrimination has no place in this world and urged them to lay down the notion put forward by some black ministers that they are less favored by God.

"Your job is to get up every day and be grateful to God for your DNA," Forbes said. "It took an artist divine to make this design!"

Forbes, senior minister at the Riverside Church, was among several religious leaders and politicians who attended a revival meeting Sunday aimed at countering what organizers said was a surge in anti-gay rhetoric coming from pulpits in conservative parishes.

The program for the event bore the pictures of 10 black men and women who were murdered, or severely injured, in recent years in attacks believed to have been motivated by their sexual orientation.

Manhattan Borough President C. Virginia Fields likened the treatment of homosexuals today to the discrimination she faced growing up black in the old South, and Arun Gandhi, a grandson of Mohandas Gandhi, drew parallels to the repression once experienced by nonwhite citizens in South Africa.

Religious conservatives have chafed at similar comparisons between the gay rights movement, and civil rights struggles of the past.

The issue has been an especially sensitive one in some predominantly black congregations, where pastors have maintained that homosexuality is a sin or a social disorder that should not be compared with race or ethnicity.

Last winter, hundreds of black clergy attended summits aimed at opposing gay marriage held in cities across the country. The Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.'s youngest daughter even led a march through Atlanta to advocate a ban on gay marriage.

Speaking at the Riverside Church, the Rev. Cari Jackson of the Center of Spiritual Light said some conservative black clergy had, perhaps unintentionally, incited hate against lesbians and gays by repeatedly condemning them as sinners.

"Like our slave ancestors," Jackson said, "we are being spiritually, psychologically and physically abused."
quote:
Originally posted by shemika:
Confused I don't know how anyone claiming to be a Christian honoring God can be pro homosexual at the same time and even deny that homosexuality is a sin. Homophobia is an igorant term not mentioned in the bible but promoted by politicers to glorify homosexuality and separate it from other sexual sins. A real Christian acknowledges that all sex outside of marriage between a man and a women is sin as is written in the scripture and this can't be ignored. To do so is to worship homosexuality rather than submit to the will of God, and is also to dishonor God by lying about it in order to exploit Christianity to excuse the sin like homosexuality. So to discourage 'homophobia' means what? To encourage and santify the sin of homosexuality? That's like encouraging the cause as a cure for the illness.

quote:
ROMANS 1
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

I have engaged this position numerous times in the past several years on this forum. The most recently was less than a month ago. See the following:
http://africanamerica.org/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/96970854/m/2311035003/r/8341038003#8341038003
http://africanamerica.org/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/96970854/m/2311035003/r/3911060103#3911060103
http://africanamerica.org/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/96970854/m/2311035003/r/5591041103#5591041103
http://africanamerica.org/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/96970854/m/2311035003/r/6171061103#6171061103

Finally, in addition to the link to Walter Winks essay in the last citation above is this excellent summary of various biblical text trotted out against homosexuality by the Metropolitan Community Church Free to Be Gay
I came across this article today...

The original text can be found @ this site...


Al Sharpton's Skeleton Closet

Al Sharpton is showbiz -- a former boy preacher, turned reckless demagogue, turning (he hopes) into an elder statesman of Black America. He has always loved the limelight and hung out with celebrities such as Mahalia Jackson, James Brown, Michael Jackson and Don King. Say what you want about him, he's certainly entertaining.
He grew up in a prosperous, suburban family (his dad was a landlord and businessman) and was a child prodigy as a preacher. By age 7, he was touring with gospel great Mahalia Jackson and Bishop F.D. Washington, the renowned Pentacostal minister of Brooklyn's Washington Temple Church of God in Christ as "the Wonder Boy Preacher."

At age 10, however, his parents divorced due to an affair his dad had with Sharpton's half-sister (ie his dad's step-daughter.) Sharpton's mother was forced to go on welfare, and at one point they went without electricity for 6 months. Al became an ordained minister shortly after his parents' divorce.

Al got involved in social activism during his teenage years, organizing several youth protests before he graduated from high school in 1972, and forming a national youth movement, named "National Youth Movement." After two years of college, he dropped out and worked as national touring manager for singer James Brown, where he met his wife Kathy. (They have two teenage daughters.)

Since then he has led numerous publicity grabbing protests following incidents of racial attacks and police brutality (such as the police assault of Haitian immigrant Abner Luoima) and formed a national action network (called "National Action Network") with 20 chapters around the country. In other words, like Pat Buchanan and Jesse Jackson, he is a political figure famous for incendiary talk and not much else.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quotes
""He's sort of a cult leader, actually." -- author Stanley Crouch
"...they will say that Al Sharpton cannot get the majority of the white vote. The fact is--no Democrat has gotten the majority of the white vote in many years. Bill Clinton didn't get the majority of the white vote. The Democratic Party has been able to put together a coalition of a sizeable portion of the white vote, the overwhelming majority of black votes and Latino votes. That has been their winning strategy..." -- Sharpton

Click here for sources

BUSTED: Caught on an FBI Surveillance Tape Discussing a Cocaine Deal
The television show HBO's Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel showed a 1983 FBI videotape in which Al Sharpton is seen talking about laundering drug money with former mobster Michael Franzese, a Mafioso-turned-undercover-FBI informant posing as a cocaine dealer. Now you might think something like this might be bad news for a presidential candidate, but to hear Sharpton talk about it, there's nothing unseemly about it.

Now, to be fair, no indictments were issued and the sting operation was never completed. But those are pretty thin excuses for a president of the United States. (At least he didn't blame a DUII on his political enemies.)

Sharpton got into this mess through his friendship with boxing promoter Don King, a longtime friend of his. Franzese, a former Colombo family captain, alleges that a South American drug dealer looking to launder money through boxing promotions approached him. According to Franzese,Sharpton was going to arrange a meeting between the dealer and King.

But the drug dealer was really an undercover FBI agent in a probe of boxing corruption. Sharpton claimed the tape was a "total attempt to set up and criminalize people," that it was leaked to scuttle his possible presidential bid, and that HBO distorted the evidence by showing only selected portions of the tape. He also clamed that a second tape existed that exonerated him.

Sharpton sued HBO for defamation and asked for $1 billion in damages. (As if he had a billion dollar reputation before the tape aired.) HBO Sports spokesman Ray Stallone described the suit as "so silly that it is unworthy of comment." Nothing has come of it since it was filed. Click here for sources


Known Associate of Michael Jackson
Any leader needs to build coalitions among diverse groups and individuals. And no individual is more diverse than Sharpton's recent ally, Michael Jackson.

They appeared together at a news conference where Jackson complained that his recent crappy album "Invincible" sold poorly because of a "racist conspiracy" by Sony Music to "turn the public against me." Yeah, we were all with you Michael until Sony told us to drop you like a hot potato. Jackson went on to say "When you fight for me, you're fighting for all black people, dead and alive." When pressed about his color, Jackson (who reportedly has had numerous skin whitening treatments and nose jobs to appear more Caucasian) said "I know my race. I just look in the mirror. I know I'm black." Click here for sources


Reckless Blowhard
Sharpton made his name and his fame as the one to lead a protest movement after every racially charged incident in New York over the last 30 years (and many elsewhere in the U.S.) Especially early in his career, he seemed content and even eager to inflame racial hatreds at the risk of violence, as long as it gave him publicity and power.

Several of these protests escalated to the point of violence, in several cases by those who Sharpton championed. Examples include the Crown Heights riot of 1991, and a 1995 arson attack on a Jewish Harlem jeweler that resulted in 8 deaths. That attack came months after Sharpton made remarks about the "white interloper". (He later apologized, saying that he wouldn't use the word white again in that context.)

Two incidents however appear to have caused him to tone down his excesses and refine his image. First, in 1987, black teenager Tawana Brawley claimed that six white law enforcement officers -- including then-assistant district attorney Steven Pagones -- had abducted and raped her, scrawled racial insults on her body and smeared her with feces.

Miss Brawley refused to speak with authorities or the media, but Sharpton and her two other advisers were soon making wild claims. Sharpton compared then-state Attorney General Robert Abrams, a Jew, to Adolf Hitler. All three linked then-Gov. Mario Cuomo to organized crime and the Ku Klux Klan.

Within a year, a grand jury announced the story was a hoax and specifically cleared a Fishkill police officer and Pagones. Pagones sued Sharpton and the other 2 advisers for more than $150 million for defamation. At this point, Sharpton's involvements is similar to George Bush and the Iraqi uranium purchase forgeries -- it's unclear if he was actively involved in fraud, or just recklessly willing to use information he knew was very shaky to make his political point.

The other turning point came in 1991 when Sharpton was stabbed by a drunk white man during a protest march in Bensonhurst; after that he began to mellow. "There are times [since the stabbing] when I've found him remarkable and responsible," says critic Stanley Crouch. He recalls that after the murder of Yusuf Hawkins, a young black man from Brooklyn, Sharpton brought together Hawkins' stepfather with one of the group of white boys that had killed his son. "This would have been more recognized had it been someone like Giuliani," says Crouch. "After the Diallo verdict, he discouraged people from being violent," warning locals in New York that violence would not only put them in harm's way, but it would reduce them to the low level from which the unjust verdict originated," he notes. "So you have these great moments. He's also taken a more mature vision of the police and moved to differentiate those good white cops, who enforce the law properly in tough and often dangerous environments, and bad cops)."

Click here for sources



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sources
Quote Sources
"Fire & Brimstone" by Tracy Grant, Black Issues Book Review, Sep/Oct2002, Vol. 4 Issue 5, p32

General Sources
"Fire & Brimstone" by Tracy Grant, Black Issues Book Review, Sep/Oct2002, Vol. 4 Issue 5, p32
"80s Icon Al Sharpton", in the 1980s web site, http://www.80s.com (ongoing, quoted July 19, 2003)

Cocaine Videotape Sources
"Fire & Brimstone" by Tracy Grant, Black Issues Book Review, Sep/Oct2002, Vol. 4 Issue 5, p32
"Sharpton sues HBO for $1 Billion", by Allison Romano, Broadcasting & Cable; 7/29/2002, Vol. 132 Issue 31, p26

Michael Jackson Sources

"WHAT NOW?", by Michael Kelly, The Atlantic Monthly; Sep2002, Vol. 290 Issue 2, p21

Blowhard Sources

"80s Icon Al Sharpton", in the 1980s web site, http://www.80s.com (ongoing, quoted July 19, 2003)
"80s Icon Tawana Brawley", in the 1980s web site, http://www.80s.com (ongoing, quoted July 19, 2003)
"Al Sharpton's Jewish Problem" by Richard Goldstein, The Village Voice, November 14 - 20, 2001
Return To Top
Return To Skeleton Closet Main Page

Paid for by Real People For Real Change
and not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.


Copyright 2003 Real People For Real Change
quote:
Manhattan Borough President C. Virginia Fields likened the treatment of homosexuals today to the discrimination she faced growing up black in the old South, and Arun Gandhi, a grandson of Mohandas Gandhi, drew parallels to the repression once experienced by nonwhite citizens in South Africa.


bs This is nonsense! I don't understand the logic of this incessant pro homosexual rhetoric. It's absurd to claim homosexuals are being discriminated against because Christians resist dishonoring the bible to appease them. I would certainly question why anyone would place ANY sexual interest above the importance of positive social rituals that build healthy, irreplaceable family structures in favor of what boils down to nothing more than the pursuit of meaningless flash-in-the-pan experiences. Often amounting to disease breading flesh fests in gay bars, public restrooms, rest stops, etc. or the fronting of same-sex parallels to the real thing, which is nothing more than an aberration. Any professed ˜Christian' willing to forsake God to cater to bullying and intimidation tactics to advocate such nonsense are weak frauds or have been brought out by these fanatics. Whose views and social ills have been indoctrinated within every sphere of this society; they are far from being oppressed and defenseless on this basis.

To parallel this narcissistic pro homosexual ranting with the injustices suffered by blacks to this day is to further insult, minimize and divert from the ongoing injustices committed against blacks. To this day there is widespread callousness, denial and concealment of racism against blacks and exaggerated and fabricated infractions documented against ˜homosexuals' by the media and government co-conspirators. This is done to sensationalize pro-homosexuality and downplay and counter acknowledgement of widespread individual experiences of racism against blacks and its effects. Also giving these purveyors of ˜pro homosexuality a license to hide behind the homosexual label to molest children in the schools, sexually harass people, and even grant their blessing to sexually assault people by accusing anyone standing up to them of ˜homophobia'. A term used to politicize their encroaching call for tyranny against anyone daring to oppose and expose them.
I applaud Sharpton's attempts to alleviate homophobia.

To those who say it's hypocritical for a preacher to be pro-homosexuality, Sharpton is not pro-homosexuality. He isn't trying to make everyone grab a same-gender lover.

He has said numerous times he believes homosexuality is a sin next to adultery, but that it is not his place to judge as if he's God.

He also said that he does not want the court to come up with new amendments to unfairly discriminate between the two and say it's based on their religious beliefs unless they are also going to impose a law that makes this country a theocracy.
No Viking, he is out of touch with Black America because the majority of Black America doesn't support homosexual special rights, doesn't support homosexual marriage, doesn't equate being gay to being black and doesn't equate sequal choice with civil rights.

Sharpton does.

It would be different if he simply said, love the sinner hate the sin, but if you have followed him on this issue he has gone greatly beyond that.
quote:
Originally posted by Dell Gines:

No Viking, he is out of touch with Black America because the majority of Black America doesn't support homosexual special rights,


I am unaware of any "special rights" that gays have been asking for. The rights that I've heard gays demanding are the same rights that you or I already have. Those aren't "special rights".

What "special rights" did you have in mind?

quote:
doesn't support homosexual marriage, doesn't equate being gay to being black and doesn't equate sequal choice with civil rights.


Why do you assume that he is out of touch with Black America? He seems well aware of the homophobia in the Black community, if this quote is any indication:

quote:

"There is latent homophobia in our community," Rev. Sharpton said.
quote:
Originally posted by Dell Gines:
No Viking, he is out of touch with Black America because the majority of Black America doesn't support homosexual special rights, doesn't support homosexual marriage, doesn't equate being gay to being black and doesn't equate sequal choice with civil rights.


If you don't have an argument, just throw out some BS and see if it sticks. Is that your M.O.? Who has ever equated "being gay to being black"? Is it so hard for you to consider that someone fighting for their rights has something in common with someone else fighting for theirs? Is that beyond your comprehension? Also, how does one group of adults fighting for the exact same set of rights and privileges as all other adults equate to them asking for "special rights"?
quote:
Originally posted by Dell Gines:
No Viking, he is out of touch with Black America because the majority of Black America doesn't support homosexual special rights,

I'm with ricardo on this one. What special rights?

quote:
doesn't support homosexual marriage, doesn't equate being gay to being black and doesn't equate sequal choice with civil rights.

Seems to me that marriage and sexual choice are both civil rights issues, by any definition of the words. And, the similarity between gays and Black folks is that both are being oppressed.

Now, I understand that you think the majority of the Black community feels the way that you have described.

If you are right, then the majority of the Black community is wrong.
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:

Now, I understand that the majority of the Black community feels the way that you have described.

The majority of the Black community is wrong.


Yup. Along with the majority of the white community, the majority of the asian community, and the majority of the latino community, etc...

sad

Oh, well...
MANY ANY THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY KNOW GAYS, THEY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN THERE, AFRICANS IN AMERICA NEVER STARTED THIS GAY RIGHTS MOVEMENT. YOU DIDNT SEE BLACK GAYS OUT THERE TALKING ABOUT GETTING MARRIED. IT WASNT UNTIL THE WHITE ESTABLISMENT START FORCING THESE ISSUES ON BALLOTS THAT WE GOT INVOLVED. WE CONTINUE TO BE DUPED BY OTHER PEOPLES AGENDA AND GET SIDE TRACKED FROM DEALING WITH THE SERIOUS LIFE AND DEATH ISSUES CONCERNING OUR PEOPLE.HOMOSEXUALITY IS NOT VERY HIGH ON THE LIST OF PRIORITIES.
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:
MANY ANY THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY KNOW GAYS, THEY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN THERE, AFRICANS IN AMERICA NEVER STARTED THIS GAY RIGHTS MOVEMENT. YOU DIDNT SEE BLACK GAYS OUT THERE TALKING ABOUT GETTING MARRIED. IT WASNT UNTIL THE WHITE ESTABLISMENT START FORCING THESE ISSUES ON BALLOTS THAT WE GOT INVOLVED. WE CONTINUE TO BE DUPED BY OTHER PEOPLES AGENDA AND GET SIDE TRACKED FROM DEALING WITH THE SERIOUS LIFE AND DEATH ISSUES CONCERNING OUR PEOPLE.HOMOSEXUALITY IS NOT VERY HIGH ON THE LIST OF PRIORITIES.
how fast Sharpton forgot about our people in the gulf homeless? fight for them man!! scream
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:
MANY ANY THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY KNOW GAYS, THEY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN THERE, AFRICANS IN AMERICA NEVER STARTED THIS GAY RIGHTS MOVEMENT. YOU DIDNT SEE BLACK GAYS OUT THERE TALKING ABOUT GETTING MARRIED. IT WASNT UNTIL THE WHITE ESTABLISMENT START FORCING THESE ISSUES ON BALLOTS THAT WE GOT INVOLVED. WE CONTINUE TO BE DUPED BY OTHER PEOPLES AGENDA AND GET SIDE TRACKED FROM DEALING WITH THE SERIOUS LIFE AND DEATH ISSUES CONCERNING OUR PEOPLE.HOMOSEXUALITY IS NOT VERY HIGH ON THE LIST OF PRIORITIES.

Bayard Rustin, James Baldwin, Angela Davis, Barbara Jordan, Audre Lourde, Countee Cullen, Langston Hughes, ... might disagree with this sentiment.
quote:
Originally posted by kresge:
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:
MANY ANY THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY KNOW GAYS, THEY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN THERE, AFRICANS IN AMERICA NEVER STARTED THIS GAY RIGHTS MOVEMENT. YOU DIDNT SEE BLACK GAYS OUT THERE TALKING ABOUT GETTING MARRIED. IT WASNT UNTIL THE WHITE ESTABLISMENT START FORCING THESE ISSUES ON BALLOTS THAT WE GOT INVOLVED. WE CONTINUE TO BE DUPED BY OTHER PEOPLES AGENDA AND GET SIDE TRACKED FROM DEALING WITH THE SERIOUS LIFE AND DEATH ISSUES CONCERNING OUR PEOPLE.HOMOSEXUALITY IS NOT VERY HIGH ON THE LIST OF PRIORITIES.

Bayard Rustin, James Baldwin, Angela Davis, Barbara Jordan, Audre Lourde, Countee Cullen, Langston Hughes, ... might disagree with this sentiment.


Don't forget about my man from the Village People!
Bayard Rustin, James Baldwin, Angela Davis, Barbara Jordan, Audre Lourde, Countee Cullen, Langston Hughes, ... might disagree with this sentiment.

all of these brothers and sistas who were gay put the plight of the black community ahead of their personal sexuality. so i disagree
quote:
Originally posted by LibDem:
If you don't have an argument, just throw out some BS and see if it sticks.


That's exactly what he plans to do. That's the standard practice of right-wing arguments. Repeat the same thing over and over until the impressionable accept it as truth. Hitler (history's most notorious right-winger) perfected the method. tfro
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:
Bayard Rustin, James Baldwin, Angela Davis, Barbara Jordan, Audre Lourde, Countee Cullen, Langston Hughes, ... might disagree with this sentiment.

all of these brothers and sistas who were gay put the plight of the black community ahead of their personal sexuality. so i disagree


I see now.

Homosexual civil rights issues in the Black community is like how women's civil rights issues was seen in the community.

So long as the issues don't pertain directly to straight Black males, every non-sBm need to swallow all indignities.

Stay content as a second-class citizen. For the good of "our" community. Roll Eyes
regardless of Al's background or motive, he is right about homophobia amoung blacks. It is a HUGE problem and needs to be addressed. There are many blacks that REFUSE to vote for a Democrat because of this issue. It amazes me how people don't know how to separate their own personal religious beliefs from politics. We should not be discriminating against gays.

People use religion to justify discrimination. Someone's lifestyle is between them and God. God is the one to judge. As long as two people are consenting adults and not hurting each other, it's none of our business.

We should not be changing laws to accomodate someone's personal religious beliefs. Gays should be allowed the freedom of marriage and all of the benefits that go with it.

We need to recognize how this homophobia has effected our community.
quote:
Originally posted by bigman:
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:
MANY ANY THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY KNOW GAYS, THEY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN THERE, AFRICANS IN AMERICA NEVER STARTED THIS GAY RIGHTS MOVEMENT. YOU DIDNT SEE BLACK GAYS OUT THERE TALKING ABOUT GETTING MARRIED. IT WASNT UNTIL THE WHITE ESTABLISMENT START FORCING THESE ISSUES ON BALLOTS THAT WE GOT INVOLVED. WE CONTINUE TO BE DUPED BY OTHER PEOPLES AGENDA AND GET SIDE TRACKED FROM DEALING WITH THE SERIOUS LIFE AND DEATH ISSUES CONCERNING OUR PEOPLE.HOMOSEXUALITY IS NOT VERY HIGH ON THE LIST OF PRIORITIES.
how fast Sharpton forgot about our people in the gulf homeless? fight for them man!! scream


is this comment a joke? Are you not aware of the march that just took place in New Orleans that was led by Al? Are you aware of the fight that is taking place to give voting access to blacks scattered all over the country for the mayor's race? Al is leading this fight. Al his spent more time down in New Orleans than any other politician that does not live there.
quote:
Originally posted by keylargo:
There are many blacks that REFUSE to vote for a Democrat because of this issue.


I thought that reached it's pinnacle during the last presidential election, but I now have people telling me to vote Republican because of gay rights.

That didn't happen to me before.

I didn't hear anyone off TV telling people to vote Republican precisely because of gays.

No one so ridiculous as to try to sell a party on one issue.

Now there are prayer lists that include GWB.

I've been ask, "Which party would Jesus vote for?" And told that homosexuality is a sin.

I don't think we've reached the pinnacle, yet.

Despite all other issues going on in our country, I think more and more Blacks are going to vote Republican primarily because of one thing.

Homophobia.
quote:
Rev. Sharpton has pledged to jumpstart a grassroots movement that would address the issue of homophobia in the black community. That problem has undoubtedly contributed to the epidemic rates of HIV/AIDS cases among African-Americans, particularly black women.

Rev. Sharpton's strongest detractors, to be sure, will be black preachers who remain in denial, even as the deadly disease claims the lives of those who sit in their pews week after week.

The failure by the black religious community to tackle homophobia within its ranks has been a travesty and has further undermined the black clergy's efforts to become leading moral voices when it comes to eliminating "isms." Black clerics must stop ignoring the reality that the black community they claim to represent includes gay men and lesbians, many of whom spend years in hiding because they fear their lifestyle will be considered morally and socially unacceptable.



MBM -

If a gay Black man where to go to a bathhouse each and every weekend and in being "As GAY as he wanted to be" had anal sex with countless number of other men on his quest for tactile stimulation of the nerves in his anus - IF HE WERE TO INSIST THAT ALL MEN WHO "ENTERED HIM" HAD TO WEAR A CONDOM to prevent BODY FLUIDS FROM BEING EXCHANGED would we be talking about the RISK OF AIDS to this Black Man due to "Homophobia in the Black Church"?

The problem IS NOT "HOMOPHOBIA" (what ever that means). The problem is that INDIVIDUALS ARE EXCHANGING BODY FLUID despite the known risks.
quote:
Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:
[QUOTE]The problem IS NOT "HOMOPHOBIA" (what ever that means). The problem is that INDIVIDUALS ARE EXCHANGING BODY FLUID despite the known risks.


The way I see it, an issue is raised when a guy - who wants to be gay and have anal sex with men - when this guy is forced to do it in secret, it does endanger the community. Cause while he's trapped in a closet with his Gay lifestyle, he's also got a girlfriend who he's having sex with cause he's pretending to like her, and it can lead to the spread of HIV/AIDS.

....In general, I think this is a good issue for Al Sharpton to address. There is a MAJOR problem in the Black church with the issue of homosexuality. There's a gay guy in my church, who used to dress pretty flamboyant in church. Then the pastor gave a few sermons about how homosexuality wasn't natural and all gays are going to hell, and I didn't see that guy in church again. If the church is supposed to help bring people closer to Christ, then it should do more than just scare them away.

And whether Blacks agree with Sharpton or not, thats their decision. If the only issues Black leaders try to convince Blacks on were things that the majority of Black America already agreed on, then are these leaders or followers? In the Civil Rights Movement, the issue of nonviolence was a thing that the majority of Blacks didn't agree upon at first either. But was MLK wrong for choosing to do things this way?
quote:
when this guy is forced to do it in secret, it does endanger the community. Cause while he's trapped in a closet with his Gay lifestyle, he's also got a girlfriend who he's having sex with cause he's pretending to like her, and it can lead to the spread of HIV/AIDS.


Your comments FAIL basic reasoning.

NO BLACK MAN is FORCED INTO FRONTING as if he is a HETEROSEXUAL.
In the decision of BEING TRUE TO HIMSELF or LYING to others about who he is - HE HAS CHOSEN THIS FAKE FRONT.

No GAY MAN is FORCED TO HAVE UNPROTECTED SELF WITH HIS MALE PARTNER. Their desire to have tactile stimulation upon their anus by another man's penis, unmuted by an artificial protective cover that also blocks the exchange of body fluid IS THE PROBLEM.

This man could CHOOSE to remain closeted while NOT PUTTING A FEMALE WHO DOESN'T KNOW HE SECRET AT RISK.

If a man does choose to marry a woman HE COULD BE AS "GAY AS HE WANTS TO BE" as long as he insists that all men who enter him WEAR PROTECTION. His female would not be at risk.

I have noted that the people who take your approach in the discussion most frequently have a goal of REMOVING THE STIGMA of homosexuality from the society. Thus you EXPAND THE POLICE TAPE to have society and preachers as co-conspirators.

For so long the argument has been TO KEEP THIRD PARTY FOLKS (and the government) OUT OF THE BEDROOM AS TO WHAT TWO (OR MORE) CONSENTING ADULTS MIGHT DO. Now after making note about how their CHOICE not to prevent the exchange of body fluid from the infected to the uninfected has allowed for the rampid spread of HIV in some communities YOU SEEK TO OPEN THE BED ROOM DOOR TO OTHERS.

Using your argument - the formerly down low Black man is now free to live an openly gay lifestyle without scrutiny. He now is strictly HOMOSEXUAL but still does not wear a condom. All you have done is allowed more Black females to remain HIV free from heterosexual sex - you have DONE NOTHING TO STOP HIV INFECTIONS AMONG GAY MEN.

Thus the BLOCKAGE OF BODY FLUID IS THE BOTTOM LINE - not SOCIETAL FEELINGS ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY.
quote:
Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:
quote:
when this guy is forced to do it in secret, it does endanger the community. Cause while he's trapped in a closet with his Gay lifestyle, he's also got a girlfriend who he's having sex with cause he's pretending to like her, and it can lead to the spread of HIV/AIDS.


Your comments FAIL basic reasoning.

...

All you have done is allowed more Black females to remain HIV free from heterosexual sex - you have DONE NOTHING TO STOP HIV INFECTIONS AMONG GAY MEN.


Maybe I should have included this in my original post, but by stopping the homophobia,
then guy is allowed to be openly gay,
so he doesn't put on the act of being hterosexual,
so the ladies are at less risk of contrating HIV/AIDS,
so the spread of HIV/AIDS in the Black community is lessened.
quote:
Maybe I should have included this in my original post, but by stopping the homophobia,
then guy is allowed to be openly gay,
so he doesn't put on the act of being hterosexual,
so the ladies are at less risk of contrating HIV/AIDS,
so the spread of HIV/AIDS in the Black community is lessened.


SO AGAIN - you are willing to YIELD others unsuspecting males to EXPOSURE TO HIV?

As long as unsuspecting FEMALES are not exposed.

Please tell me how your line of thinking makes any sense?


HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT ALL BI-SEXUAL MEN WHO ARE MARRIED ARE "FORCED" TO BE MARRIED?

Just as a CHEATING STRAIGHT MAN "wants his cake and eats it too" HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT HE DOES NOT ENJOY the White picket fence, the children and the "VAGINAL STIMULATION" upon his penis that a female provides

but then when he is out of her sight likes to go and GET STIMULATED JUST THE SAME BY HIS MALE PARTNER?


Why is it that you ATTEMPT to put this ON THE BACKS OF SOCIETY rather than keeping the POLICE TAPE focused on the MAN involved in our discussion and what he is doing?

Better yet - could you detail for me the MECHANISMS OF REDUCING HOMOPHOBIA IN A SOCIETY?
Does the general society LASH OUT AND ATTACK everyone who shows signs that they believe that ONLY a sexual relationship between a man and a woman is "natural"?

What rights at THEIR OWN OPINION do dissenters have before you can say YOU ARE OPPRESSING THEM?
What if they can show that THEY HAVE NEVER DONE ANYTHING AGAINST A HOMOSEXUAL TO TRAMPLE HIS RIGHTS but they just hold opposing views? Should they still be attacked?

How are you any less OPPRESSIVE in your ultimate goals than your 'CONSERVATIVE' adversary?
Constructive Feedback, how is what you're any different than a heterosexual person going around and having sex without wearing a condom?

Both the heterosexual and the homosexual lifestyles are very risky when the persons involved don't wear a condom.

But my whole point is that if the homosexual man wants to take this risk, its his personal choice. Just like if a heterosexual person wants to have sex without a condom, its their choice.

But whether you accept it as a problem or not, homophobia does exist in Black America, and so there are many black men who are trapped in the closet on this issue. Some people may like to be in the closet, and thats also their choice, but my post was talking specifically about those people who are in the closet about homosexuality because they are afraid of what will happen if they did homosexual things in public.

I realize that my post doesn't relate to everybody in the homosexual/bisexual community, and I never intended for it to.

I've made no attacks on people who are homophobic, nor do I think that any should be made. I don't even understand why you say I "attempt to put this on the backs of society". I think society should treat homosexuals differently just as I think they should treat anybody who is treated badly better.

And when a kid in school gets beat up at the first thought of him being gay, I call that being treated badly. And I'm not referring to kids in grade school, but rather the many fights you hear and read about in college newspapers.

In regards to your question about what can be done, I think it starts with having discussions such as the one we're having right now - to get people in Black America to accept and understand that the level of homophobia in Black America IS a problem. Where it goes from there depends on who does what, but if Black America doesn't accept that this is an issue, then whatever other things that are tried to solve the problem will have very little impact.
I missed this thread when it was first started... Interesting that the New York Sun carried this article about Rev. Al.

Now, don't get me wrong: I would love for people to stop being so hateful toward gays and bisexuals. This hatred has destroyed families and perfectly sound relationships. There will never not be gay people. Nobody's manhood is threatened by what someone else does in their bedroom, and no one's lives are affected in any way by the presence of gay people. So I agree Al Sharpton that this foolishness needs to stop.

However...

I would like for somebody, once and for all, to break down for me exactly how anti-gay sentiment (what the hell is "homophobia"?) in the black community contributes to high HIV rates. I don't think it does. Let me break down why I think the two issues are separate...

As wrongful as hatred of gays/bisexuals is, I fail to see how it connects with the act of having unprotected gay sex. If blacks loved gay people, I don't see how that would act to encourage safer sexual practices. "Hey, man, the larger community doesn't hate us anymore. We can use condoms now!" <-- Could somebody connect the dots for me here, please?

Second, there seems to be a leap of an assumption that most black bisexual men are actually homosexuals pretending to be straight. I would suggest that this assumption is unsupported at best (and totally bullshit at worst). I don't see why nobody believes you can be naturally bisexual.

But regardless whether the majority of "functional" bisexuals (the guys who actually do engage in sex with both men and women) are "naturally" bisexual or not, we are staking out a dangerously illogical path if we merely assume one way and try to form policy or an action plan based on that assumption.

I say that because if most bi men are naturally bi -- or even if they weren't at first -- then it makes no difference how much love or hate the community at large has for them, they will still have sex with men and women. If they have girlfriends or wives, and they still want to have sex with men, then they'll still have to operate in secret, because even the most tolerant of women will still not want their man to cheat on them. And, of course, provided nobody here can logically link for me the relationship between anti-gay sentiment and the insistence on unsafe gay sex, HIV risk among gay men will remain high.

Therefore, if this flawed plan to reduce anti-gay sentiment is carried out, the outcomes won't change. Black people will still suffer disproportionate rates of infection -- both gay/bi men and women.

The thing is, if black people already have a disproportionately high rate of HIV, then as long as the infected continue to have unsafe sex with other black people, we will virtually never solve the problem and reduce the rates. So in order to have a chance to work this out, the plan of action has got to come from an accurate, sound basis. I know it feels good to bash black people and say "Oh, they're more homophobic than white people," (which I doubt is true, by the way). But we really need to get this right, if the plan is to actually solve the problem.

Add Reply

Likes (0)
Post
×
×
×
×