quote:
Originally posted by Saracen:
Peace....


quote:
That there is the possibility of understanding all that Oludumare or allah is. I have heard preachers speak of having "the mind of god". Misguided in the extreme. That submission is a form of godliness. I could go on but being an intelligent lady I'm sure you understand.


I do not think that one must understand all of what Allah, Oludumare, or even Ausar is in order to have the mind of God.


Kai


Whoa.... thanks Kai, I don't know why I didn't catch this before....

I struggled a bit with whether or not the question was subtly sarcastic....

plus, you of all people know how difficult it is for me to answer this question, and have it understood....

I've been sweating all day...

a most vulnerable and personal position for someone who thinks like me, indeed...


Peace,
Virtue
quote:
Originally posted by virtue:
quote:
Originally posted by Saracen:
Peace....


quote:
That there is the possibility of understanding all that Oludumare or allah is. I have heard preachers speak of having "the mind of god". Misguided in the extreme. That submission is a form of godliness. I could go on but being an intelligent lady I'm sure you understand.


I do not think that one must understand all of what Allah, Oludumare, or even Ausar is in order to have the mind of God.


Kai


Whoa.... thanks Kai, I don't know why I didn't catch this before....

I struggled a bit with whether or not the question was subtly sarcastic....

plus, you of all people know how difficult it is for me to answer this question, and have it understood....

I've been sweating all day...

a most vulnerable and personal position for someone who thinks like me, indeed...


Peace,
Virtue



My question was not sarcastic at all and I am still interested in your answer.
quote:
Originally posted by Saracen:
Peace....


quote:
That there is the possibility of understanding all that Oludumare or allah is. I have heard preachers speak of having "the mind of god". Misguided in the extreme. That submission is a form of godliness. I could go on but being an intelligent lady I'm sure you understand.


I do not think that one must understand all of what Allah, Oludumare, or even Ausar is in order to have the mind of God.


How does one have the mind of what one does not understand?

It is not that the speaker is in possesion of God, but better said they have loss themselves, thereby becoming a manifestion of God in person.


And before the "losing of the self" who were they manifestations of?

If Oludumare manifests through the creation, when you see the creation you see the Allah...If man loses himsef he becomes a manifestation of Allah,


See question above.


man becoming strong until he is man no longer...


The key to this is in the manner of submission or surrender of the self.


Kai



My questions are not sarcastic. I really want to understand how those who have accepted this type of world view think.
Peace...


quote:
How does one have the mind of what one does not understand?


The believer in Islam aspires to become a Muslim. A muslim is one who has submitted their own will to become a vessel for Allah's Will. Allah is the unseen God, however as you have indicated relating to Oludumare, Allah makes His presence known through the manifest realm. The people of Ancient Kemet would say "Anuk Ausar", or I am Ausar, or I am God in Person. To have the mind of God really is better described as one who has ordered themselves as a candidate and been accepted for membership by the ageless consciousness which exists beyond the 4 dimensional spacetime of this realm.

We do not seek to understand the mind of God, we seek to subdue the self and join the mind...

The western man is limited to what he can ascertain through empirical gatherings. The scientists of this western world are limited to what they can understand by tests....

Our people demonstated a different method, while we were great empiricists ourselves, when it came to communing with the Creation and it's Lord, we simply gave ourselves over...This is a very difficult idea to explain, however, it can be illustrated in our dance traditions...There is always a rhythm to join into...every dancer has lost themselves in the rhythm of the drum...Man no longer...



quote:
And before the "losing of the self" who were they manifestations of?


They were still manifestations of the One God, however, within themselves they were lost to this reality.

Allah grants humanity free will. This means that we have a choice within creation to reflect our own ideas. If I decide to rape, murder, steal, destroy, it cannot be said that it is the will of God that I do so...It is my own will in opposition to the oderly Will of God. In our faith traditions in Kemet we had representations for this. The soul was weighed in the Tuat to determine the destiny of the heart...Our choices cannot be blamed on God.

However, when we properly align the self, we become like Ra..we become lights unto the world..Not our own light..But the Light of the one God.



quote:
My questions are not sarcastic. I really want to understand how those who have accepted this type of world view think.



Our world view is the same as it has always been reaching back into times before we carved the Nile, and before we leveled and graded mountaintops on which to erect pyramids...



Kai
quote:
Originally posted by Fagunwa:
Brazil retained more of the community based aspect of Ifa. Of course it is nearly impossible to maintain the family aspects due to the slave trade. I have yet to see a diasporic Ile that has the depth of the sacred technology maintained, but the slave trade is the cause of this. No longer having a connection with elders etc. That said I think it's remarkable how much has been retained and how beautiful the ceremonies are.


Sorry it took me so long to respond...

Ki nkan ma se Oluwo Ifataiye Fagbenro Amusan.

Some of us have returned...

To add to the topic at hand...

Shango was also the 4th King that ruled as the Alafin of Oyo.
Shango is the Black man, God is the white man and Shango and God are equal! That in a nut shell is the philosophy of Olodumare and Shango. It is all in my book the Philosophy of Olodumare and Shango available for purchase at Barnes and Noble.com and Amazon.com. If you would like to know more about the Philosophy of Olodumare and Shango email me at juniorscience2000@yahoo.com.
This is not posted to the person whose response preceeds it. It is a general informational post.

Continuing to see yourself, your ancestors, and your very existence through the eyes of those who sought your extermination is a certain death sentence.

Shango from an orginal Yoruban perspective is so much more than what many have tried to limit him to. He is the energy/spirit of transformation, the power and passion of fire, a diefied ancestor who was a champion of truth, who punished injustice, and who was an excellent representation of powerful and strong leadership.

The Americanized "worshippers" of the orisha often filter their characteristics through a western, linear, and shattered perspective. They call Shango a womanizer--but in the African tradition, he was a king and thus was entitled to his many wives (I might add that his wives were not complaining. The stories indicate that they were quite pleased with him especially my mother Oshun :-)) Since sexual virility is a necessary energy, it is rightfully attributed to His Majesty. It is the perception that there is something "wrong" with a man being powerfully attractive, virile, and sexual that is the true problem.

Shango is my "father" in terms of the Orisha whose energy rules my head. I credit that energy with my ability to be an accomplished death penalty defense attorney. It is the spiritual legacy of Obakoso (Shango) that infuses me everytime I step into a courtroom to attempt to convince an appellate court that a brother on death row, who faces certain death, has been done an injustice.

I realize that as the offspring of enslaved and oppressed africans, we often are limited to the information that we have been given. However, we have a responsibility to ourselves and to our children to unlearn the lies and learn the truths. The true nature of the Orisha Shango is a principle that is essential and could just be the saving grace of black manhood in this country.

I never speak ill of Jesus among Christians. Not because I believe all of the Jesus stories, but rather out of respect for the fact that they do. We would do well to not speak ill of African dieties and show them the same respect as we have historically shown the dieties of those who enslaved and oppressed us. (by the way, research the similarities between Heru, Shango, and Jesus, you will be surprised).

Teach the babies the truth.

If any of the above sounds angry, please do not take it as such. It is passionate, not angry. I am hard-pressed to be angry with my siblings. Yet the respect for african based spirituality is a concept that I hold dear, because it is my view that only in one's original essence, can success, destiny, and peace be found.

Study the African religions, even if you don't choose to practice them. Study them from an African perspective (and yes, I am African-American, born here, of parents born here, of great grandparents who were enslaved--just like many of you). Study the Orisha, the Loa, the Mpungo for your own sakes and to reconnect to your truest selves. Continuing to see yourself, your ancestors, and your very existence through the eyes of those who sought your extermination is a certain death sentence.

Peace

Nefertari
quote:
Originally posted by fire&sweetwater:
This is not posted to the person whose response preceeds it. It is a general informational post.

Continuing to see yourself, your ancestors, and your very existence through the eyes of those who sought your extermination is a certain death sentence.

Shango from an orginal Yoruban perspective is so much more than what many have tried to limit him to. He is the energy/spirit of transformation, the power and passion of fire, a diefied ancestor who was a champion of truth, who punished injustice, and who was an excellent representation of powerful and strong leadership.

The Americanized "worshippers" of the orisha often filter their characteristics through a western, linear, and shattered perspective. They call Shango a womanizer--but in the African tradition, he was a king and thus was entitled to his many wives (I might add that his wives were not complaining. The stories indicate that they were quite pleased with him especially my mother Oshun :-)) Since sexual virility is a necessary energy, it is rightfully attributed to His Majesty. It is the perception that there is something "wrong" with a man being powerfully attractive, virile, and sexual that is the true problem.

Shango is my "father" in terms of the Orisha whose energy rules my head. I credit that energy with my ability to be an accomplished death penalty defense attorney. It is the spiritual legacy of Obakoso (Shango) that infuses me everytime I step into a courtroom to attempt to convince an appellate court that a brother on death row, who faces certain death, has been done an injustice.

I realize that as the offspring of enslaved and oppressed africans, we often are limited to the information that we have been given. However, we have a responsibility to ourselves and to our children to unlearn the lies and learn the truths. The true nature of the Orisha Shango is a principle that is essential and could just be the saving grace of black manhood in this country.

I never speak ill of Jesus among Christians. Not because I believe all of the Jesus stories, but rather out of respect for the fact that they do. We would do well to not speak ill of African dieties and show them the same respect as we have historically shown the dieties of those who enslaved and oppressed us. (by the way, research the similarities between Heru, Shango, and Jesus, you will be surprised).

Teach the babies the truth.

If any of the above sounds angry, please do not take it as such. It is passionate, not angry. I am hard-pressed to be angry with my siblings. Yet the respect for african based spirituality is a concept that I hold dear, because it is my view that only in one's original essence, can success, destiny, and peace be found.

Study the African religions, even if you don't choose to practice them. Study them from an African perspective (and yes, I am African-American, born here, of parents born here, of great grandparents who were enslaved--just like many of you). Study the Orisha, the Loa, the Mpungo for your own sakes and to reconnect to your truest selves. Continuing to see yourself, your ancestors, and your very existence through the eyes of those who sought your extermination is a certain death sentence.

Peace

Nefertari


Modupe!

Nice post.
quote:
They call Shango a womanizer--but in the African tradition, he was a king and thus was entitled to his many wives
When it comes to womanizing, all the major religious historical figures appear to be guilty.
Mohammed was a pedophile and philandering womaniser who "revealed" a verse in the Quran endorsing his promiscuous ways - Quran 33:50.

"Prophet (Mohammed), we have made lawful to you your wives, female war captives, slaves, daughters of your paternal and maternal uncles, daughters of your paternal and maternal aunts, any believing woman who "offers" herself to you..." - Q33:50

He reportedly indulged in sexual orgies screwing all his wives in one night:

"The prophet used to have sex with all his wives in one night, and he had nine wives" - Bukhari 7:62:6, 15268"

The Prophet used to visit all his wives in a round, during the day and night and they were eleven in number." I asked Anas, "Had the Prophet the strength for it?" Anas replied, "We used to say that the Prophet was given the strength of thirty men."- Sahih Bukhari 15268


King Solomon's womanizing was legendary both in the Bible and Islamic tradition, which reports he screwed 100 wives in one night - Sahih Bukhari 7:62:169.
This Islamic obssesion with sex !!

David was also polygamous with several wives and concubines (2 Sam 5:13), even snatching another man's wife and sending him to die in battle. By making Solomon, an offspring of that amorous affair the greatest king of Israel, Yahweh tacitly endorsed David's cruelty and debauchery.

Genesis 38 tells the bizzare story of Judah screwing his daughter-in-law...after she had been severally married to his two sons.
Interestingly, Jesus the impostor messiah was a descendant of that disgusting incest - Matt 1:3

Prophet Isaiah fornicated with a temple prophetess who conceived and delivered out of wedlock (Isaiah 8:3). Incidentally this child was the one refered to in the so-called prophecy about the birth of Jesus in Isaiah 7:14.
Anyone who reads Isaiah 7 & 8 can easily see that.

And they were all righteous men !!

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