For those of us who are married or in relationships if you find that your and your mates sex drives dont match how have you or do you find the balance? How do you keep the sex life happy in that regard?
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Well, this is not personal experience, but a Dear Margo letter that I ran across that at least loosely applies to your question ... so I thought I would share! 
DEAR MARGO: I have been married to a wonderful woman for many years. Our marriage is the best I know, except in one area: We are, and have always been, sexually incompatible. She does not like sex, and I have many fantasies that remain bottled up. This is a great source of stress, lack of sleep and occasional anger for me. I have tried many times to convince her to go to therapy together, but she refuses, saying we do not have a problem. And from her perspective, she is right, because we have the sex life she has always wanted: infrequent and within the framework of what the Vatican would approve. I, however, feel I am reaching a breaking point. Leaving her, visiting a prostitute or otherwise cheating on her are not options. So I have narrowed my choices down to two very imperfect alternatives: going to therapy on my own -- but I am concerned about the expense for something I'm not sure would help if she is not involved; or investigating some sort of drug that would reduce my sex drive, if such drugs actually exist. Do you have any advice?
--- BURDENED
DEAR BURD: What a sad situation to be in. The hopeful part is that you say she is a wonderful woman and your marriage is the best, except for the one major missing ingredient. Not to be indelicate, but I am guessing masturbation has not proven satisfactory. Since you have eliminated the options that might ameliorate the problem, I do think counseling would help you, even alone. As for a drug along the lines of what we, as teenagers, called saltpeter (which may have been a joke), why not make an appointment with a urologist specializing in male sexuality and raise that question? On a philosophical level, I would share with you the Zen saying: There may be no solution; seek it lovingly.
--- MARGO, SUPPORTIVELY
DEAR MARGO: I have been married to a wonderful woman for many years. Our marriage is the best I know, except in one area: We are, and have always been, sexually incompatible. She does not like sex, and I have many fantasies that remain bottled up. This is a great source of stress, lack of sleep and occasional anger for me. I have tried many times to convince her to go to therapy together, but she refuses, saying we do not have a problem. And from her perspective, she is right, because we have the sex life she has always wanted: infrequent and within the framework of what the Vatican would approve. I, however, feel I am reaching a breaking point. Leaving her, visiting a prostitute or otherwise cheating on her are not options. So I have narrowed my choices down to two very imperfect alternatives: going to therapy on my own -- but I am concerned about the expense for something I'm not sure would help if she is not involved; or investigating some sort of drug that would reduce my sex drive, if such drugs actually exist. Do you have any advice?
--- BURDENED
DEAR BURD: What a sad situation to be in. The hopeful part is that you say she is a wonderful woman and your marriage is the best, except for the one major missing ingredient. Not to be indelicate, but I am guessing masturbation has not proven satisfactory. Since you have eliminated the options that might ameliorate the problem, I do think counseling would help you, even alone. As for a drug along the lines of what we, as teenagers, called saltpeter (which may have been a joke), why not make an appointment with a urologist specializing in male sexuality and raise that question? On a philosophical level, I would share with you the Zen saying: There may be no solution; seek it lovingly.
--- MARGO, SUPPORTIVELY
get a lil 'bit onna side (or maybe a lot, who can say). If your partner is not willing to work with you, then work by yourself or with someone else. But there is too damned much of life that is suffering.
That's too bad.
If you don't like sex, then you should stay single. Nothing wrong with being single at all..
If you don't like sex, then you should stay single. Nothing wrong with being single at all..
well sometimes, you like sex until you been married for 12 years
quote:Originally posted by EbonyRose:
Well, this is not personal experience, but a Dear Margo letter that I ran across that at least loosely applies to your question ... so I thought I would share!
DEAR MARGO: I have been married to a wonderful woman for many years. Our marriage is the best I know, except in one area: We are, and have always been, sexually incompatible. She does not like sex, and I have many fantasies that remain bottled up. This is a great source of stress, lack of sleep and occasional anger for me. I have tried many times to convince her to go to therapy together, but she refuses, saying we do not have a problem. And from her perspective, she is right, because we have the sex life she has always wanted: infrequent and within the framework of what the Vatican would approve. I, however, feel I am reaching a breaking point. Leaving her, visiting a prostitute or otherwise cheating on her are not options. So I have narrowed my choices down to two very imperfect alternatives: going to therapy on my own -- but I am concerned about the expense for something I'm not sure would help if she is not involved; or investigating some sort of drug that would reduce my sex drive, if such drugs actually exist. Do you have any advice?
--- BURDENED
DEAR BURD: What a sad situation to be in. The hopeful part is that you say she is a wonderful woman and your marriage is the best, except for the one major missing ingredient. Not to be indelicate, but I am guessing masturbation has not proven satisfactory. Since you have eliminated the options that might ameliorate the problem, I do think counseling would help you, even alone. As for a drug along the lines of what we, as teenagers, called saltpeter (which may have been a joke), why not make an appointment with a urologist specializing in male sexuality and raise that question? On a philosophical level, I would share with you the Zen saying: There may be no solution; seek it lovingly.
--- MARGO, SUPPORTIVELY
If there were ever a "poster couple" for pre-marital sex, this couple is it. I would never marry someone I was sexually incompatible with. Although sex is not the most important thing in a relationship, it's one of the most important. Most men in this situation would have cheated long ago.
A couple can start out with a compatible sex drive but life can bring about changes. . .as in hormonal.
The wife in the article is plain ole SELFISH. . .unwilling to compromise or find middle ground. If I felt I had a lower sex drive than my mate, I would simply take herbal enhancers or SOMETHING!
I wouldn't just leave him high and dry. . .
the woman in the article doesn't love her husband enough to help the situation. She is taking him for granted and that's a divorce waiting to happen.
I would leave her azzzzzzz if I were him.
The wife in the article is plain ole SELFISH. . .unwilling to compromise or find middle ground. If I felt I had a lower sex drive than my mate, I would simply take herbal enhancers or SOMETHING!
I wouldn't just leave him high and dry. . .
the woman in the article doesn't love her husband enough to help the situation. She is taking him for granted and that's a divorce waiting to happen.
I would leave her azzzzzzz if I were him.
quote:Originally posted by thabrothaman69:
For those of us who are married or in relationships if you find that your and your mates sex drives dont match how have you or do you find the balance? How do you keep the sex life happy in that regard?
It's hard to say... every situation is different, and situations change over time.
I'd say that variety is the spice of life and the enemy of stagnation. For the most part, I think that any sexual problems a couple is having can be remedied by not doing the same thing all the time. Having sex at different times of the day, in different positions, in different parts of the house, for different lengths of time (quickies vs. all nighters), all help to make sex more interesting and will generally raise libido. For women in particular, not knowing what to expect will keep their brain working (which is their main sexual organ anyway).
In my experience, there's nothing more boring than a woman who's bored.
quote:Originally posted by EbonyRose:
Well, this is not personal experience, but a Dear Margo letter that I ran across that at least loosely applies to your question ... so I thought I would share!
DEAR MARGO: I have been married to a wonderful woman for many years. Our marriage is the best I know, except in one area: We are, and have always been, sexually incompatible. She does not like sex, and I have many fantasies that remain bottled up. This is a great source of stress, lack of sleep and occasional anger for me. I have tried many times to convince her to go to therapy together, but she refuses, saying we do not have a problem. And from her perspective, she is right, because we have the sex life she has always wanted: infrequent and within the framework of what the Vatican would approve. I, however, feel I am reaching a breaking point. Leaving her, visiting a prostitute or otherwise cheating on her are not options. So I have narrowed my choices down to two very imperfect alternatives: going to therapy on my own -- but I am concerned about the expense for something I'm not sure would help if she is not involved; or investigating some sort of drug that would reduce my sex drive, if such drugs actually exist. Do you have any advice?
--- BURDENED
This strikes me as the story of a woman who's never had a mind blowing orgasm.
I think the oversexually stimulated western culture and western minded people focus too much on sex...
and I think this coupled with porn etc... makes many problems unnecessary...
some problems are as sister said above... hormonal
Which means an immature level of impatience on the part of the partner .... such as men who are unwilling to wait for their wives to recover from birth ...
that said... that even in the most righteous society physical incompatibility can be reduced through homogeny and courtship... where things are known... or at least discussed frankly before hand... and there are expectations that are laid out on the line...
but in an oversexed society where people are not looking for marriage but to "hook up" and then may discover after hooking up for a while they want to try "marriage" ... iono... delve further into porn... cheat on your spouse... drug yourself... alter your body chemistry... talk and talk about it and hope talking will spark emotions to do it...
If you are of some of the eastern half righteous half selfish mentality... you could just take on another wife to satisfy your urges... you could advocate lots and LOTS of fornication so young men and women will test drive their bodies with one another and preach to them to remove their emotions from the act so that they understand the importance of a good climax in marriage...
or...
oh...
you could change your thinking about sex... and realize that one move by one person may result in a completely different reaction by you from another person making the same moves...
the difference of pleasure and desire is not in the mechanics but in the connection between the two...
but, this society is not ready for that...
so ...
on with the lube... toys... drugs... cheating.. and fornicating..
how enlightening! [/sarcasm]
and I think this coupled with porn etc... makes many problems unnecessary...
some problems are as sister said above... hormonal
Which means an immature level of impatience on the part of the partner .... such as men who are unwilling to wait for their wives to recover from birth ...
that said... that even in the most righteous society physical incompatibility can be reduced through homogeny and courtship... where things are known... or at least discussed frankly before hand... and there are expectations that are laid out on the line...
but in an oversexed society where people are not looking for marriage but to "hook up" and then may discover after hooking up for a while they want to try "marriage" ... iono... delve further into porn... cheat on your spouse... drug yourself... alter your body chemistry... talk and talk about it and hope talking will spark emotions to do it...
If you are of some of the eastern half righteous half selfish mentality... you could just take on another wife to satisfy your urges... you could advocate lots and LOTS of fornication so young men and women will test drive their bodies with one another and preach to them to remove their emotions from the act so that they understand the importance of a good climax in marriage...
or...
oh...
you could change your thinking about sex... and realize that one move by one person may result in a completely different reaction by you from another person making the same moves...
the difference of pleasure and desire is not in the mechanics but in the connection between the two...
but, this society is not ready for that...
so ...
on with the lube... toys... drugs... cheating.. and fornicating..
how enlightening! [/sarcasm]
quote:Originally posted by Khalliqa:
I think the oversexually stimulated western culture and western minded people focus too much on sex...
and I think this coupled with porn etc... makes many problems unnecessary...
some problems are as sister said above... hormonal
Which means an immature level of impatience on the part of the partner .... such as men who are unwilling to wait for their wives to recover from birth ...
that said... that even in the most righteous society physical incompatibility can be reduced through homogeny and courtship... where things are known... or at least discussed frankly before hand... and there are expectations that are laid out on the line...
but in an oversexed society where people are not looking for marriage but to "hook up" and then may discover after hooking up for a while they want to try "marriage" ... iono... delve further into porn... cheat on your spouse... drug yourself... alter your body chemistry... talk and talk about it and hope talking will spark emotions to do it...
If you are of some of the eastern half righteous half selfish mentality... you could just take on another wife to satisfy your urges... you could advocate lots and LOTS of fornication so young men and women will test drive their bodies with one another and preach to them to remove their emotions from the act so that they understand the importance of a good climax in marriage...
or...
oh...
you could change your thinking about sex... and realize that one move by one person may result in a completely different reaction by you from another person making the same moves...
the difference of pleasure and desire is not in the mechanics but in the connection between the two...
but, this society is not ready for that...
so ...
on with the lube... toys... drugs... cheating.. and fornicating..
how enlightening! [/sarcasm]
My sister, what you have just written comes off as so condescending and self-righteous it's ridiculous.
Instead of just saying, "everything has to be kept in balance and perspective", you busted out with that.
The bottom line is that SEX is part of the package when two people are to be yoked in matrimony, but of course it's not the ONLY part.
So my dear sister it's a two way street and in the scenario presented there are a lot of things happening and it has very little, IMO, to do with western fixations and impurities. Not that I don't agree that those things exist, but.. anyhow.. my position is this:
Every sort of human relationship requires something, and they primarily require FAITHFULNESS. We are all required to walk in FAITHFULNESS towards each other. A lack of faithfulness, in ANY sort of human relationship, is grounds for us extricating ourselves from that relationship until godly amends and efforts are made. If those amends and efforts are not made, then woe be to the person who refuses to be faithful. We are to consistently be handling our business when we are engaging with one another. No exceptions or excuses.
So what is Faithfulness? Faithfulness is when we are deliberately and consistently applying ourselves to meeting the godly requirements of ALL of our relationships.
And I'm not just talking about SEX, but I'm sure you get that.
Their primary issue is communication, and then compassion. I wouldn't have an issue with a partner who had some biological thing happening that made sex challenging, as long as her MIND was right, and her tongue and attitude about it demonstrated a desire to progress and remedy the situation. Apathy and a lack of diligence in that area (or ANY other area) will eventually lead to you getting the boot.
quote:Originally posted by THEBIGDODDY:quote:Originally posted by Khalliqa:
I think the oversexually stimulated western culture and western minded people focus too much on sex...
and I think this coupled with porn etc... makes many problems unnecessary...
some problems are as sister said above... hormonal
Which means an immature level of impatience on the part of the partner .... such as men who are unwilling to wait for their wives to recover from birth ...
that said... that even in the most righteous society physical incompatibility can be reduced through homogeny and courtship... where things are known... or at least discussed frankly before hand... and there are expectations that are laid out on the line...
but in an oversexed society where people are not looking for marriage but to "hook up" and then may discover after hooking up for a while they want to try "marriage" ... iono... delve further into porn... cheat on your spouse... drug yourself... alter your body chemistry... talk and talk about it and hope talking will spark emotions to do it...
If you are of some of the eastern half righteous half selfish mentality... you could just take on another wife to satisfy your urges... you could advocate lots and LOTS of fornication so young men and women will test drive their bodies with one another and preach to them to remove their emotions from the act so that they understand the importance of a good climax in marriage...
or...
oh...
you could change your thinking about sex... and realize that one move by one person may result in a completely different reaction by you from another person making the same moves...
the difference of pleasure and desire is not in the mechanics but in the connection between the two...
but, this society is not ready for that...
so ...
on with the lube... toys... drugs... cheating.. and fornicating..
how enlightening! [/sarcasm]
My sister, what you have just written comes off as so condescending and self-righteous it's ridiculous.
Instead of just saying, "everything has to be kept in balance and perspective", you busted out with that.
The bottom line is that SEX is part of the package when two people are to be yoked in matrimony, but of course it's not the ONLY part.
So my dear sister it's a two way street and in the scenario presented there are a lot of things happening and it has very little, IMO, to do with western fixations and impurities. Not that I don't agree that those things exist, but.. anyhow.. my position is this:
Every sort of human relationship requires something, and they primarily require FAITHFULNESS. We are all required to walk in FAITHFULNESS towards each other. A lack of faithfulness, in ANY sort of human relationship, is grounds for us extricating ourselves from that relationship until godly amends and efforts are made. If those amends and efforts are not made, then woe be to the person who refuses to be faithful. We are to consistently be handling our business when we are engaging with one another. No exceptions or excuses.
So what is Faithfulness? Faithfulness is when we are deliberately and consistently applying ourselves to meeting the godly requirements of ALL of our relationships.
And I'm not just talking about SEX, but I'm sure you get that.
Their primary issue is communication, and then compassion. I wouldn't have an issue with a partner who had some biological thing happening that made sex challenging, as long as her MIND was right, and her tongue and attitude about it demonstrated a desire to progress and remedy the situation. Apathy and a lack of diligence in that area (or ANY other area) will eventually lead to you getting the boot.
Negro please...
I could care less how I come off to a bunch of oversexed people... OF COURSE any mention of the obvious lack of self control and complete remiss of the purpose and beauty of what sex is SUPPOSED to be is going to be met with a indignant retort.. that is to be EXPECTED... lol In this society being foul is supposed to be dignified... I have little respect for the position...
At any rate... I was speaking in general.. so if you see yourself as not what I described.. then this has little to do with you...
Plus... I don't even know why you quoted me.. you haven't addressed my points... that is if you really understood them instead of just posting out of defense... My point was not about balance.. it was about a complete overhaul of human thought about how to interact with one another... so of course I wouldn't say what I didn't mean...
And I'm not your sister...
quote:Originally posted by Khalliqa:
Negro please...
I could care less how I come off to a bunch of oversexed people... OF COURSE any mention of the obvious lack of self control and complete remiss of the purpose and beauty of what sex is SUPPOSED to be is going to be met with a indignant retort.. that is to be EXPECTED... lol In this society being foul is supposed to be dignified... I have little respect for the position...
A bunch of oversexed people? Lack of self-control?
Now who is really being foul up in this mug?
And with what POSITION regarding sex do you find disagreeable?
quote:Originally posted by Khalliqa:
At any rate... I was speaking in general.. so if you see yourself as not what I described.. then this has little to do with you...
Plus... I don't even know why you quoted me.. you haven't addressed my points... that is if you really understood them instead of just posting out of defense... My point was not about balance.. it was about a complete overhaul of human thought about how to interact with one another... so of course I wouldn't say what I didn't mean...
Why not talk about balance? Is that not what it's really about? Is not mercy, compassion, patience and self-control really about BALANCE?
And I'm not posting out of defense. I'm on the offense.
So, if you have the keys to the sexual universe, then spit.
quote:Originally posted by Khalliqa:
And I'm not your sister...
Yes you are.
Don't be mad.
quote:Originally posted by THEBIGDODDY:quote:Originally posted by Khalliqa:
Negro please...
I could care less how I come off to a bunch of oversexed people... OF COURSE any mention of the obvious lack of self control and complete remiss of the purpose and beauty of what sex is SUPPOSED to be is going to be met with a indignant retort.. that is to be EXPECTED... lol In this society being foul is supposed to be dignified... I have little respect for the position...
A bunch of oversexed people? Lack of self-control?
Now who is really being foul up in this mug?
And with what POSITION regarding sex do you find disagreeable?
lol..
*sigh* I don't feel like rehearsing my position.. the majority of people on this board know what it is...
if you don't feel like doing a search, then just let it go...
quote:quote:Originally posted by Khalliqa:
At any rate... I was speaking in general.. so if you see yourself as not what I described.. then this has little to do with you...
Plus... I don't even know why you quoted me.. you haven't addressed my points... that is if you really understood them instead of just posting out of defense... My point was not about balance.. it was about a complete overhaul of human thought about how to interact with one another... so of course I wouldn't say what I didn't mean...
Why not talk about balance? Is that not what it's really about? Is not mercy, compassion, patience and self-control really about BALANCE?
And I'm not posting out of defense. I'm on the offense.
So, if you have the keys to the sexual universe, then spit.
I do...
... but that's the point.. it's not FOR EVERYONE... lol.. value is not in a manual.. to be read for application when the Mrs aint puttin out.. nor for message boards... lolIf your position is balance.. then YOU state it.. it simply is not mine... I gave my opinion along with everyone else... my conclusion is the solution is not something people REALLY want to know... because that would require too much change... people just want to know how they can get the most of the &*()&'d up situation they got themselves in without exerting too much self reflection...
quote:quote:Originally posted by Khalliqa:
And I'm not your sister...
Yes you are.
Don't be mad.
I'm not mad... this is a message board after all.. not real life... nor is it a dis to you... I just place more value on the term than I did before...
and I'm still not your sister...
I had to learn the hard way that majority of black people today are definitely not part of my family...
At any rate.. back on topic... sex drive is tied to value systems and one's understanding of the purpose of a man and woman... right now.. it's just what people expect based on their values taken from and/or highly influence by a very screwed up society....
Okay.
quote:Originally posted by THEBIGDODDY:
Okay.
Thank you for not dragging this further! lol
quote:Originally posted by Khalliqa:
If you are of some of the eastern half righteous half selfish mentality... you could just take on another wife to satisfy your urges... you could advocate lots and LOTS of fornication so young men and women will test drive their bodies with one another and preach to them to remove their emotions from the act so that they understand the importance of a good climax in marriage...
Can you explain this type of person, or give examples?... I'm curious about what type of person/attitude this is... I've never heard of a personn/attitude being describes quite like this before. I'm intrigued to whom/what type of person/attitude this refers to. I would like to be able to more clearly idenitfy this type of attitude/person. Thanks you in advance.
quote:Originally posted by Oshun Auset:quote:Originally posted by Khalliqa:
If you are of some of the eastern half righteous half selfish mentality... you could just take on another wife to satisfy your urges... you could advocate lots and LOTS of fornication so young men and women will test drive their bodies with one another and preach to them to remove their emotions from the act so that they understand the importance of a good climax in marriage...
Can you explain this type of person, or give examples?... I'm curious about what type of person/attitude this is... I've never heard of a personn/attitude being describes quite like this before. I'm intrigued to whom/what type of person/attitude this refers to. I would like to be able to more clearly idenitfy this type of attitude/person. Thanks you in advance.
eastern half righteous half selfish mentality...
Arabs
you could advocate lots and LOTS of fornication so young men and women will test drive their bodies with one another and preach to them to remove their emotions from the act so that they understand the importance of a good climax in marriage...
Anyone who sees value in fornication... particularly those in the West...
quote:Originally posted by Khalliqa:quote:Originally posted by Oshun Auset:quote:Originally posted by Khalliqa:
If you are of some of the eastern half righteous half selfish mentality... you could just take on another wife to satisfy your urges... you could advocate lots and LOTS of fornication so young men and women will test drive their bodies with one another and preach to them to remove their emotions from the act so that they understand the importance of a good climax in marriage...
Can you explain this type of person, or give examples?... I'm curious about what type of person/attitude this is... I've never heard of a personn/attitude being describes quite like this before. I'm intrigued to whom/what type of person/attitude this refers to. I would like to be able to more clearly idenitfy this type of attitude/person. Thanks you in advance.
eastern half righteous half selfish mentality...
Arabs
you could advocate lots and LOTS of fornication so young men and women will test drive their bodies with one another and preach to them to remove their emotions from the act so that they understand the importance of a good climax in marriage...
Anyone who sees value in fornication... particularly those in the West...
Oh... Duhhh...
I thought the entire paragraph described one type of person/attitude... That's where my confusion came in... Thanks for clarifying.
Whatever man.. the heart of man is desperately and deceitfully wicked, who can know it?
That was no kinda explanation at all.
Any MATURE enlightened person (even the FORNICATOR) knows that sex is more than just some robotic mechanical act designed to meet a single end.
All the rest of that is just scoffing.
Be what the engagement demands and do it joyfully and you secure all the blessings of that engagement.
I ain't trying to have NOTHING with anybody who is doing it outta duty or with some lofty or vague agenda in mind that REALLY seeks to WITHHOLD, rather than SHARE.
That was no kinda explanation at all.
Any MATURE enlightened person (even the FORNICATOR) knows that sex is more than just some robotic mechanical act designed to meet a single end.
All the rest of that is just scoffing.
Be what the engagement demands and do it joyfully and you secure all the blessings of that engagement.
I ain't trying to have NOTHING with anybody who is doing it outta duty or with some lofty or vague agenda in mind that REALLY seeks to WITHHOLD, rather than SHARE.
quote:Originally posted by THEBIGDODDY:
Whatever man.. the heart of man is desperately and deceitfully wicked, who can know it?
That was no kinda explanation at all.
Any MATURE enlightened person (even the FORNICATOR) knows that sex is more than just some robotic mechanical act designed to meet a single end.
All the rest of that is just scoffing.
Be what the engagement demands and do it joyfully and you secure all the blessings of that engagement.
I ain't trying to have NOTHING with anybody who is doing it outta duty or with some lofty or vague agenda in mind that REALLY seeks to WITHHOLD, rather than SHARE.
Okay....
Sooo I guess I should get my credit card back from that hooker?
quote:Originally posted by Wiz:
Sooo I guess I should get my credit card back from that hooker?
quote:Originally posted by Wiz:
Sooo I guess I should get my credit card back from that hooker?
Damn, you gave up your credit card AND your player card.
Prostitution Research & Education Website
http://www.prostitutionresearch.com/how_prostitution_works/000012.html
excerpt:
WHERE THE WORKERS COME FROM
The sex industry ultimately is about power. This is best demonstrated by the care which the industry takes to ensure that those it uses are powerless. The predators are neither irrational nor stupid. They watch carefully for a kind of "victim profile," and avoid anyone who may be uncontrollable or dangerous.
They focus on young people coming out of families that are abusive, disorganized, or non-existent. One fundamental function of the family is protection of its members, especially its children. The family also is a team, and all players must do their jobs. If a member is lost or disabled, others in the extended family or community must step in to carry on. When one or more adults in a family are absent, addicted, mentally ill, or severely demoralized, the children are in danger.
When the family is poor, or part of a devalued minority group, and opportunities for education and good jobs are limited, some members of those families may be willing to take risks. If the young people are being terrorized, beaten, or sexually abused by the very people who should be protecting them, many are going to take their chances on the street. For some, nude dancing or even prostitution may look better than no job at all.
If they are underage, have no address, or cannot afford to have their parents involved, most social service agencies will not help them. Children are still treated as some adults' property.
The juvenile system has little interest in noncriminal runaways or "throw-aways." There are age requirements for normal jobs, usually between 14 and 18 years of age. The very young are practically forced into the sex industry, even before the pimps and johns get involved. They may have to do prostitution from age 12 or 14, until they turn 18, and can get a "better job" such a nude dancing.
There are three general patterns for "breaking" someone into prostitution.
In slave taking, a young male predator "befriends" a victim long enough to be sure she is not dangerous herself, nor protected by anyone who is. He manipulates her into a situation where she can be kidnapped and held in isolation in a place the slaver and his friends control. Over a prolonged period, she is terrorized, tortured, and gang raped. She is threatened with her own death, and that of anyone she loves.
Once she is convinced that her only chance of survival is to do exactly as she is told, she is "turned out." Her first "trick" may in fact be a member of the prostitution organization, set up to make sure she performs as directed. After she has been properly "seasoned," she is put to work for her captors, or sold to another pimp.
The domestic violence transition targets young people coming out of abusive homes who are emotionally needy, and have no real idea of what a normal love relationship looks like. They become involved with a "boyfriend" who initially treats them better than they have ever experienced before. The boyfriend gradually becomes extremely controlling, and eventually violent. He introduces commercial sex in terms of his pressing need for money, and "If you love me, you will do this." He quickly transitions from "just this once" into "You are just a whore, my whore!" and requiring daily prostitution. He continues controlling the victim with alternating emotional manipulation and explosive violence, while living on her earnings, for as long as she lasts.
The "grooming" process is used by older and more sophisticated predators, and is especially used on younger children. These perpetrators become adept at identifying abused, neglected, and depressed children, and "befriending" them. They develop a "special" relationship, one that isolates the child from others, and makes the child feel indebted to the groomer. Slowly, resistance is broken down, using gifts, money, alcohol, drugs, and pornography. In the sex industry, pornography is not only a profitable product, it also is a working tool.
They engage the child in progressively more direct sex, and begin to merge the abuse into the child's identity: "You want this", "You like this", "You make it happen", "Now you are dirty, perverted, queer". These predators often are only interested in children of a specific age or appearance. When they develop beyond that, the kids may be passed off to pedophiles interested in older children. Being suddenly "dumped" for no understandable reason often is very painful for the child.
Over a lifetime these predators may victimize an incredibly large number of children. The emotional damage they do leaves a child even more isolated and vulnerable to further involvement in the sex industry.
THE JOHNS
No business can afford to create a product for which there are no buyers. The first step in understanding the sex industry is to understand the customers, the johns.
Real sexual relationships are not hard to find. There are plenty of adults of both sexes who are willing to have sex if someone treats them well, and asks. But there lies the problem. Some people do not want an equal, sharing relationship. They do not want to be nice. They do not want to ask. They like the power involved in buying a human being who can be made to do almost anything.
The business of prostitution and pornography is the use of real human beings to support the fantasies of others. Anyone working in prostitution who tells a john too much about who they really are, interferes with the fantasy. They risk losing a customer, and may get a beating as well. In real relationships with real people, you are stuck with the limitations of who you are, who your partner is, and what you can do together without hurting each other.
Some people do not want real relationships, or feel entitled to something beyond the real relationships they have. They want to play "super stud and sex slave" or whatever, inside their own heads. If they need to support their fantasies with pictures, video tapes, or real people to abuse, the sex trade is ready to supply them. For a price, they can be "a legend in their own minds."
The most common type of prostitution customer is the user. He is quite self-centered, and simply wants what he considers to be his needs met.
The user would deny any intent to harm anyone, and might even claim some empathy for the sex workers he uses. However, his empathy does not extend to discontinuing his using behavior, nor to helping anyone escape from the sex industry. He does not care whether the person he is using is unwilling or unusually vulnerable. He simply feels entitled to whatever he wants, whenever he wants it. If someone is hurt, that is not his problem.
He sees himself as a respectable person, and works to protect that appearance. Users provide a large, safe, and steady income for the pimps and other "businessmen," of the sex industry.
Sadists are people who have the ability to take pleasure in another person's fear, pain, or humiliation. They constitute about ten percent of the population. Sadists vary in severity, ranging from those who just make you feel bad, on up to those who do torture murders. There is a definite practice effect. If allowed to hurt people often, their sadism gets worse.
Physical, sexual, and emotional abuse by sadists drives their child victims into the street, trying to escape. The pimps and "chickenhawks" take it from there.
Sadists are attracted to prostituted women and children because they are willing to get into a car or come to a place where the sadist can be in control. Sadism is about control. Hurting people who cannot stop them is their most intense and pleasurable form of control.
Sadists play close attention to matters of power. They are most brutal with small women and children, and are more careful with larger women and men. They avoid people who may have someone to protect them, or someone who may take revenge on the victim's behalf.
There are pimps who specialize in supplying victims to sadists, and who base their fees on the amount of damage done to the victim. Sadists are found at all levels of society, including the respected and powerful. They often use this, saying, "You are just a whore, nobody is going to believe you." If they do kill someone, they are very aware that, to some extent, the effort society puts into finding the killer will reflect the value placed on the victim. People working in prostitution are safe victims.
Necrophiles are people who can take pleasure in filth, degradation, and destruction. They are the users of the sick, the old, the psychotic, the brain damaged, the "tracked" and tattooed casualties of the sex industry, in the end stages of their lives. For necrophiles, broken bodies and broken minds are a turn on. They glory in their superiority over ruined human beings, and feel entitled to express their contempt in every way.
Necrophiles must keep their perversion secret from their friends and families, both to protect their social standing, and to protect their fantasies of superiority. Normal people just would not understand.
Child molesters participate in the sex industry in several ways. Some have been aware of a sexual attraction to children, often of a particular age and sex, from some time in late childhood. They then make the choice to act on it.
Some have sadistic characteristics. Children are easier than adults to control. The molester's own children, in his own home, are the easiest of all to control.
Necrophilic child molesters enjoy the knowledge that, when the molesters are finished with them, the children's lives will never be the same. They enjoy the fact that the children may later self-destruct in addiction, prostitution or suicide. It proves that they were right.
Sex offenders against children operate with varying degrees of sophistication. Some do careful "grooming." They use pornography to break down resistance, and supply drugs, alcohol, and money. Others just start out with forcible rape. Many claim unusual "love" for children. They claim that sex between adults and children is not harmful, and should be legalized. Pedophiles actually teach children that they are helpless, hopeless, worthless, and only good for sex and hurting.
A large portion of workers in the sex trade started out as sexually abused children. Some were even "broken in" by being shared with or rented out to others by their own families.
There are specialist pimps who provide children to johns. The fees vary depending on the age, sex and appearance of the child, as well as the amount of damage the child has already incurred.
When caught, the pimps and johns claim not to have known the child's real age. There is a market for small adults made up to look like children, both for direct sex and for pornography. But the truth is in the fees: real children sell for more than fake ones.
http://www.prostitutionresearch.com/how_prostitution_works/000012.html
excerpt:
WHERE THE WORKERS COME FROM
The sex industry ultimately is about power. This is best demonstrated by the care which the industry takes to ensure that those it uses are powerless. The predators are neither irrational nor stupid. They watch carefully for a kind of "victim profile," and avoid anyone who may be uncontrollable or dangerous.
They focus on young people coming out of families that are abusive, disorganized, or non-existent. One fundamental function of the family is protection of its members, especially its children. The family also is a team, and all players must do their jobs. If a member is lost or disabled, others in the extended family or community must step in to carry on. When one or more adults in a family are absent, addicted, mentally ill, or severely demoralized, the children are in danger.
When the family is poor, or part of a devalued minority group, and opportunities for education and good jobs are limited, some members of those families may be willing to take risks. If the young people are being terrorized, beaten, or sexually abused by the very people who should be protecting them, many are going to take their chances on the street. For some, nude dancing or even prostitution may look better than no job at all.
If they are underage, have no address, or cannot afford to have their parents involved, most social service agencies will not help them. Children are still treated as some adults' property.
The juvenile system has little interest in noncriminal runaways or "throw-aways." There are age requirements for normal jobs, usually between 14 and 18 years of age. The very young are practically forced into the sex industry, even before the pimps and johns get involved. They may have to do prostitution from age 12 or 14, until they turn 18, and can get a "better job" such a nude dancing.
There are three general patterns for "breaking" someone into prostitution.
In slave taking, a young male predator "befriends" a victim long enough to be sure she is not dangerous herself, nor protected by anyone who is. He manipulates her into a situation where she can be kidnapped and held in isolation in a place the slaver and his friends control. Over a prolonged period, she is terrorized, tortured, and gang raped. She is threatened with her own death, and that of anyone she loves.
Once she is convinced that her only chance of survival is to do exactly as she is told, she is "turned out." Her first "trick" may in fact be a member of the prostitution organization, set up to make sure she performs as directed. After she has been properly "seasoned," she is put to work for her captors, or sold to another pimp.
The domestic violence transition targets young people coming out of abusive homes who are emotionally needy, and have no real idea of what a normal love relationship looks like. They become involved with a "boyfriend" who initially treats them better than they have ever experienced before. The boyfriend gradually becomes extremely controlling, and eventually violent. He introduces commercial sex in terms of his pressing need for money, and "If you love me, you will do this." He quickly transitions from "just this once" into "You are just a whore, my whore!" and requiring daily prostitution. He continues controlling the victim with alternating emotional manipulation and explosive violence, while living on her earnings, for as long as she lasts.
The "grooming" process is used by older and more sophisticated predators, and is especially used on younger children. These perpetrators become adept at identifying abused, neglected, and depressed children, and "befriending" them. They develop a "special" relationship, one that isolates the child from others, and makes the child feel indebted to the groomer. Slowly, resistance is broken down, using gifts, money, alcohol, drugs, and pornography. In the sex industry, pornography is not only a profitable product, it also is a working tool.
They engage the child in progressively more direct sex, and begin to merge the abuse into the child's identity: "You want this", "You like this", "You make it happen", "Now you are dirty, perverted, queer". These predators often are only interested in children of a specific age or appearance. When they develop beyond that, the kids may be passed off to pedophiles interested in older children. Being suddenly "dumped" for no understandable reason often is very painful for the child.
Over a lifetime these predators may victimize an incredibly large number of children. The emotional damage they do leaves a child even more isolated and vulnerable to further involvement in the sex industry.
THE JOHNS
No business can afford to create a product for which there are no buyers. The first step in understanding the sex industry is to understand the customers, the johns.
Real sexual relationships are not hard to find. There are plenty of adults of both sexes who are willing to have sex if someone treats them well, and asks. But there lies the problem. Some people do not want an equal, sharing relationship. They do not want to be nice. They do not want to ask. They like the power involved in buying a human being who can be made to do almost anything.
The business of prostitution and pornography is the use of real human beings to support the fantasies of others. Anyone working in prostitution who tells a john too much about who they really are, interferes with the fantasy. They risk losing a customer, and may get a beating as well. In real relationships with real people, you are stuck with the limitations of who you are, who your partner is, and what you can do together without hurting each other.
Some people do not want real relationships, or feel entitled to something beyond the real relationships they have. They want to play "super stud and sex slave" or whatever, inside their own heads. If they need to support their fantasies with pictures, video tapes, or real people to abuse, the sex trade is ready to supply them. For a price, they can be "a legend in their own minds."
The most common type of prostitution customer is the user. He is quite self-centered, and simply wants what he considers to be his needs met.
The user would deny any intent to harm anyone, and might even claim some empathy for the sex workers he uses. However, his empathy does not extend to discontinuing his using behavior, nor to helping anyone escape from the sex industry. He does not care whether the person he is using is unwilling or unusually vulnerable. He simply feels entitled to whatever he wants, whenever he wants it. If someone is hurt, that is not his problem.
He sees himself as a respectable person, and works to protect that appearance. Users provide a large, safe, and steady income for the pimps and other "businessmen," of the sex industry.
Sadists are people who have the ability to take pleasure in another person's fear, pain, or humiliation. They constitute about ten percent of the population. Sadists vary in severity, ranging from those who just make you feel bad, on up to those who do torture murders. There is a definite practice effect. If allowed to hurt people often, their sadism gets worse.
Physical, sexual, and emotional abuse by sadists drives their child victims into the street, trying to escape. The pimps and "chickenhawks" take it from there.
Sadists are attracted to prostituted women and children because they are willing to get into a car or come to a place where the sadist can be in control. Sadism is about control. Hurting people who cannot stop them is their most intense and pleasurable form of control.
Sadists play close attention to matters of power. They are most brutal with small women and children, and are more careful with larger women and men. They avoid people who may have someone to protect them, or someone who may take revenge on the victim's behalf.
There are pimps who specialize in supplying victims to sadists, and who base their fees on the amount of damage done to the victim. Sadists are found at all levels of society, including the respected and powerful. They often use this, saying, "You are just a whore, nobody is going to believe you." If they do kill someone, they are very aware that, to some extent, the effort society puts into finding the killer will reflect the value placed on the victim. People working in prostitution are safe victims.
Necrophiles are people who can take pleasure in filth, degradation, and destruction. They are the users of the sick, the old, the psychotic, the brain damaged, the "tracked" and tattooed casualties of the sex industry, in the end stages of their lives. For necrophiles, broken bodies and broken minds are a turn on. They glory in their superiority over ruined human beings, and feel entitled to express their contempt in every way.
Necrophiles must keep their perversion secret from their friends and families, both to protect their social standing, and to protect their fantasies of superiority. Normal people just would not understand.
Child molesters participate in the sex industry in several ways. Some have been aware of a sexual attraction to children, often of a particular age and sex, from some time in late childhood. They then make the choice to act on it.
Some have sadistic characteristics. Children are easier than adults to control. The molester's own children, in his own home, are the easiest of all to control.
Necrophilic child molesters enjoy the knowledge that, when the molesters are finished with them, the children's lives will never be the same. They enjoy the fact that the children may later self-destruct in addiction, prostitution or suicide. It proves that they were right.
Sex offenders against children operate with varying degrees of sophistication. Some do careful "grooming." They use pornography to break down resistance, and supply drugs, alcohol, and money. Others just start out with forcible rape. Many claim unusual "love" for children. They claim that sex between adults and children is not harmful, and should be legalized. Pedophiles actually teach children that they are helpless, hopeless, worthless, and only good for sex and hurting.
A large portion of workers in the sex trade started out as sexually abused children. Some were even "broken in" by being shared with or rented out to others by their own families.
There are specialist pimps who provide children to johns. The fees vary depending on the age, sex and appearance of the child, as well as the amount of damage the child has already incurred.
When caught, the pimps and johns claim not to have known the child's real age. There is a market for small adults made up to look like children, both for direct sex and for pornography. But the truth is in the fees: real children sell for more than fake ones.
Awww, gee Khalliqa, I was just fun'n, I ain't got no credit card.
quote:Originally posted by Wiz:
Awww, gee Khalliqa, I was just fun'n, I ain't got no credit card.
I know.. I was being rigid... plus... what did you use cash?????
quote:Originally posted by Wiz:
Awww, gee Khalliqa, I was just fun'n, I ain't got no credit card.
there there, Wiz
no worries.
Some of us thought you were funny.
Yeah, Wiz, everybody knows they don't take credit cards...
Reminds me, I'm gonna have to settle up my tab soon!
Reminds me, I'm gonna have to settle up my tab soon!
Begging your patience, I used S&H Green Stamps, she was an old ho.quote:Originally posted by Khalliqa:quote:Originally posted by Wiz:
Awww, gee Khalliqa, I was just fun'n, I ain't got no credit card.
I know.. I was being rigid... plus... what did you use cash?????
I do understand how serious and offensive prostitution is, but to me, there is little beyond the bounds of humor. On the other hand, when you are asking what to do in the situation that was presented, well of course everyone is going to give you the most wonderful advice about marriage, fidelity, sexuality so pure it is almost blinding.
I don't know, people inside the relationship have to determine what they will do, what they will agree upon and what they will tolerate in silence. Testing the boundaries and all. It would be wonderful to find your universal equal, but lets admit it, there is no adventure in perfection.
Remember, the right answer at the wrong time, is the wrong answer (i think).
quote:Originally posted by Wiz:Begging your patience, I used S&H Green Stamps, she was an old ho.quote:Originally posted by Khalliqa:quote:Originally posted by Wiz:
Awww, gee Khalliqa, I was just fun'n, I ain't got no credit card.
I know.. I was being rigid... plus... what did you use cash?????
That's not a good look.... sounds pathetic.... you must be real hard up for someone to touch you physically ... plus you're broke...
quote:Remember, the right answer at the wrong time, is the wrong answer (i think).
Hmmm..... your signature says:
quote:I don't no nothing
So, I'll take your responses with a grain of salt...
It's not... I am... I am... I am...quote:That's not a good look.... sounds pathetic.... you must be real hard up for someone to touch you physically ... plus you're broke...
As far as not knowing anything, well the acknowledgement of one's ignorance is the beginning of one's wisdom. Non?
A grain of salt is not bad.
quote:Originally posted by Wiz:It's not... I am... I am... I am...quote:That's not a good look.... sounds pathetic.... you must be real hard up for someone to touch you physically ... plus you're broke...
You're weird... and probably white... I must be terribly bored to even be responding.... *sigh*
quote:As far as not knowing anything, well the acknowledgement of one's ignorance is the beginning of one's wisdom. Non?
Admitting ignorance is wise in that you are wisely alerting others of your incompetence while simultaneously positioning yourself to learn more... sure...
quote:A grain of salt is not bad.
I suppose you should utilize an admission of ignorance for failing to recognize Slight 101....
You respond to a joke with a thesis on the evils of prostitution and you call me weird? I am certainly not white and unless you or anyone else is going to put some money on that, stop bringing it up as an accusation against me.
But this is not about me, is it?
But this is not about me, is it?
quote:Originally posted by Wiz:
You respond to a joke with a thesis on the evils of prostitution and you call me weird?
Yes... I find it weird that jokes about degrading women are normal... but then this is America... I suppose for a certain mind that's cute...
quote:I am certainly not white
you have the mentality of a sneaky racist.... this is the net just your saying I'm not white doesn't make it so.... you're either white or a stupid negro... take your pick...
unless you separate "you" from your thoughts displayed on the board.. yes ... at the current moment...quote:
But this is not about me, is it?
sure...
quote:Remember, the right answer at the wrong time, is the wrong answer (i think).
Best thing I've seen posted in a long time.
And the joke was funny...
quote:But this is not about me, is it?
Nope, it's just your turn in the barrel...
This, being the net and all, you come off as pretty bitter, and not just around racism either. Maybe you ain't happy or something, whatever it is, it ain't cute. And just so you do not trip (cause I know you like to), by 'cute' I mean nice, pleasant, thoughtful, kind, respectful... you know, 'cute'quote:Originally posted by Khalliqa:quote:Originally posted by Wiz:
You respond to a joke with a thesis on the evils of prostitution and you call me weird?
Yes... I find it weird that jokes about degrading women are normal... but then this is America... I suppose for a certain mind that's cute...There was nothing in the joke that degraded women, that is just the way you wanted to see it, which says more about you than it does me. The absurdity of the joke was enough to leave it alone right there. But you wanted to start preaching n'shit.quote:I am certainly not white
you have the mentality of a sneaky racist.... this is the net just your saying I'm not white doesn't make it so.... you're either white or a stupid negro... take your pick... first off, I do not have the mentality of a racist, sneaky or any other sort, there is just something fucked up in your perspective to bring you to that conclusion and you might want to get that check out. And since you ain't got shit to do with who I am, your limit of choices does not mean a damned thing to me, other than what it speaks of you. So unless you are coming with some money on it, you can drop the white shit.
|unless you separate "you" from your thoughts displayed on the board.. yes ... at the current moment...quote:
But this is not about me, is it?
sure...
quote:Originally posted by Wiz:
There was nothing in the joke that degraded women,
Paying used and abused women to get off sexually is cute to many... I understand why you are unable to take offense... this is normal behavior for you...
quote:first off, I do not have the mentality of a racist, sneaky or any other sort, there is just something fucked up in your perspective to bring you to that conclusion and you might want to get that check out. And since you ain't got shit to do with who I am, your limit of choices does not mean a damned thing to me, other than what it speaks of you. So unless you are coming with some money on it, you can drop the white shit.
ooooh... you sound mad... you cursing and everything... hit.. dog... hollering.. lol..
quote:This, being the net and all, you come off as pretty bitter, and not just around racism either. Maybe you ain't happy or something, whatever it is, it ain't cute. And just so you do not trip (cause I know you like to), by 'cute' I mean nice, pleasant, thoughtful, kind, respectful... you know, 'cute'
I do not doubt that a sneaky, racist, foul cracka would see me as bitter... I would think something was wrong if you found the righteousness in my personality attractive.. there would have to be an elegant part of you I missed..
I'm rarely wrong..
scum can't stand me...
I'm content with this... :-)
No, you come off a bitter, trust me on that. It may look elegant from where you are, but it looks salty over here. What is the matter with you? No, really. What is it? You think I frequent prostitutes because I made a joke where one was involved?
Actually cussing is my more natural way of speaking, anyone who knows me would attest to that. You on the other hand, well you think I am white, so your intuition is fucked up or you think I am stupid, again, your intuition is fucked up.
And that part about the righteousness of your personality sounds delusional.
Not that I matter, but I am going to call it, I used to think you were someone worth paying attention to, but now you are a very bitter disappointment.
I know what it is, it is the last word syndrome. So I will let you have it, it will make you feel as though you have done something. It's cool, I am pretty much the same way, so I do understand and will bear no grudge. Now the trick to being really good is to not open the thread anymore after your last post. See?
Actually cussing is my more natural way of speaking, anyone who knows me would attest to that. You on the other hand, well you think I am white, so your intuition is fucked up or you think I am stupid, again, your intuition is fucked up.
And that part about the righteousness of your personality sounds delusional.
Not that I matter, but I am going to call it, I used to think you were someone worth paying attention to, but now you are a very bitter disappointment.
I know what it is, it is the last word syndrome. So I will let you have it, it will make you feel as though you have done something. It's cool, I am pretty much the same way, so I do understand and will bear no grudge. Now the trick to being really good is to not open the thread anymore after your last post. See?
quote:Originally posted by Wiz:
I know what it is, it is the last word syndrome. So I will let you have it,
You take the internet way too seriously... but thanks for letting me have the last word! cool! :-)
My man and I had this problem once, and what I found that most people DON'T do is actually TALK about it. Don't just let it be some unspoken truth that just lingers in the air. You may be very surprised at the answers you'll get once you open up the subject.
When my boyfriend's sex drive wasn't as high as mine, I had worried that he just wasn't interested in me anymore. I couldn't have been more wrong! We talked about it and he told me that because of all the financial stress we'd been having, he just didn't have the mental or physical energy for it. I felt so much better and after that his sex drive actually picked up.
When I was the one having that issue, we also talked about it, and he was very grateful when I explained to him that my depression sometimes just makes sex the last thing on my mind. The hormonal thing is SO legitimate.
For whoever said just "get somebody on the side", grow the hell up. There are a million and one reasons why someone's libido may be down. It may be stress, hormones, medication, etc. TAKE THE TIME to ask questions and have a real, candid conversation about it before you get pissed and go astray.
When my boyfriend's sex drive wasn't as high as mine, I had worried that he just wasn't interested in me anymore. I couldn't have been more wrong! We talked about it and he told me that because of all the financial stress we'd been having, he just didn't have the mental or physical energy for it. I felt so much better and after that his sex drive actually picked up.
When I was the one having that issue, we also talked about it, and he was very grateful when I explained to him that my depression sometimes just makes sex the last thing on my mind. The hormonal thing is SO legitimate.
For whoever said just "get somebody on the side", grow the hell up. There are a million and one reasons why someone's libido may be down. It may be stress, hormones, medication, etc. TAKE THE TIME to ask questions and have a real, candid conversation about it before you get pissed and go astray.