It didn't take too long to find these needles in the haystack. Saddam can't be far away.

Were the doubters and alarmists wrong once again regarding the war? Does anyone still doubt that once the fear is killed, that the weapons will be found?
Original Post
What reason would the Iraq people have to believe that they are INDEED dead and that this is not simply American propaganda? They have not seen Saddam or his Sons in public since April, thus, they do not know if they were killed in April or killed now. The reality is that unless the Americans can PROVE that they are dead, and then the people will not buy it. Furthermore, the people working on behalf of the regime will spread their own propaganda that they are indeed still alive, if they are dead.

Truth is always fraught with impediments. Truth agreed with is a blessed duet. Truth confronting beloved vice will sever relationships, perpetrate flight, and uncover murderous rage. - Alexander Solzhenitsyn


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Noah The African in America
Well they saw them today, and for the last time.

Seems like an awful lot of words noah, to basically say nothing.

So, what do you suggest? Maybe some Iraqi can stick pencils in their dead ears or tickle their toes with feathers to see if their lifeless bodies jump up. If they don't jump, then the Iraqis know they are dead? I mean, just how backwards and ignorant do you think the Iraqis are exactly?
How can that which is not hidden be found? If the warhawks think that the constant attacks on U.S. service men and women is based on some fear that those doing the attacking have of Saddam and his sons then clearly the warhawks have not been paying attention. Was not a tape released by a new group claiming responsibility for the attacks and also said that they are in no way connected with Saddam. Is not the Sunni Muslims trying to form an army to get rid of the American Occupiers? Killing and catching Saddam and his son is only part of the problem.

The continued uprising and referring to American service men and women as occupiers, coupled with the attitude of the service men and women serving over there, this is still a mess. Today "Another soldier dead". How many must die?

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When our most educated, and best prepared turn their back on our community, stagnation sets in and the men and women who are not the most educated and not the most prepared become the example for those coming behind them. It is up to those of us who are not rich and well off but are educated and prepared to educate our youth and prepare them for what they will face when entering the world.



More to come later!

Your Brother Faheem
A new group? Could be a new 'rap' group for all you know.

CNN has failed to inform you of how many 'enemy' are killed daily. You ever even wondered why that is? Were you aware that the US army is shooting back? Do you believe that saddam loyalists and islamic fruitcakes are in an unlimited supply? And if I told you they are being killed one by one until there are no more, would that seem 'unthinkable' to you?

Please, the anti-liberation crowd hasn't gotten anything right yet. I doubt you are going to start now.
I am not privy of the details of whether or not they showed the bodies on TV or not. I also KNOW that most people think that America is so technologically advanced that they could FAKE such an event, If need be. Furthermore, I know that warfare is often psychological and aims at deceiving the enemy, as mush as if not more than simply finding them and killing them.

Anyway, I do NOT really give a dung about the whole Iraq thing anymore. I have no sphere of influence over it, or any independent intelligence equipment to corroborate what the administration is saying. My guidance is history and nature, which leads me to NOT put faith in the presidency to be honest with the public and to realize that it the long run, the US will wish it never invaded Iraq, not unlike Vietnam. Every action creates a reaction, so America should just brace for the ramification of this.

Truth is always fraught with impediments. Truth agreed with is a blessed duet. Truth confronting beloved vice will sever relationships, perpetrate flight, and uncover murderous rage. - Alexander Solzhenitsyn


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Noah The African in America
Well noah, I understand you might be a little young and logically inexperienced. But fact is, if the adminstration were in fact 'dishonest', then logically they'd have 'faked' that the weapons had been found by now, probably about on day one. But that is not what history is now revealing to you. Look carefully my friend, truth can be seen if one just clears their mind of all the riff-raff.

To site that history 'teaches' one, and then to miss what is unfolding right in front of one's eyes is of dubious value and credibility.

Think on that, its quite instructive.

[This message was edited by sergeant on July 22, 2003 at 10:49 AM.]


[This message was edited by sergeant on July 22, 2003 at 10:51 AM.]
What the Hel1 you talkin bout Willis? Eek

Truth is always fraught with impediments. Truth agreed with is a blessed duet. Truth confronting beloved vice will sever relationships, perpetrate flight, and uncover murderous rage. - Alexander Solzhenitsyn


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Noah The African in America
Now now, lets not seek escape when your views are challenged. You know who I am, I'm just a person expressing my views, just as you are. No need to label, no need to get personal, and no need to construct those beloved 'conspiracy' theories you both are so fond of. I write, and you write. And thats how 'dialogue' happens.

You don't 'mind' being challenged every now and then, do ya?

hehehe
Aint no FOOL like an OLD FOOL!!! Take from a "YOungster" than you.

Truth is always fraught with impediments. Truth agreed with is a blessed duet. Truth confronting beloved vice will sever relationships, perpetrate flight, and uncover murderous rage. - Alexander Solzhenitsyn


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Noah The African in America
Dude...

I'm just saying you sound exactly like them suckas on TV... Word-for-word...

And you're trying to say you're expressing "YOUR" opinion? NO! Sounds like your are expressing theirs!

I could give a damn about the Right / Left... So you in no wise challenge me with your idiotic tit-for-tat...
There is nothing this government can do that I would believe is unthinkable. This government can not surprise any one any more. I am aware that the soldiers over there are killing as well as being killed; this is reported all the time. Those men and women killing U.S. service persons are not in an unlimited supply and neither are the U.S. service men and women in an unlimited supply.

Now we are the anti-liberation crowd? Did you come up with that? It is no more anti-war, it is anti-liberation. Haha. I guess since the war has been proven to have been fought under false pretense, now it is all about liberation. How stupid are you Sergeant? There are tons of people around the world that need liberation so why start in Iraq, the people were not starving there like in North Korea who do have WMD. Again even you can not explain the hypocrisy of a silly argument of liberation.

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When our most educated, and best prepared turn their back on our community, stagnation sets in and the men and women who are not the most educated and not the most prepared become the example for those coming behind them. It is up to those of us who are not rich and well off but are educated and prepared to educate our youth and prepare them for what they will face when entering the world.



More to come later!

Your Brother Faheem
It funny we should ask why Iraq? And next, if they decide to liberate Iran there would have to be some explaining...

Iraq before SO-DAMN pissed the first Bush off was by far the most educated Arab nation there with the biggest middle-class etc. Granted there was repression but for them to be educated in an area where they say the masses of people are hardly literate... like Afganistan, that would hardly put them on the top of the "Liberation" list.
Actually, Iran is going to liberate itself.

And faheem calls me 'stupid'. Yet faheem isn't aware that the BBC is now coming under fire for 'lying' about the British intelligence data being untrue and causing the death of a leading scientist in the process. Noone has disputed any of the intelligence satisfactorily yet. Everyone knows saddam had those weapons.
Sergeant I can do nothing more than shake my head when reading foolish things written by you. Are you paying attention to anything, you continue to dodge the substance of what I have said from this thread going all the way back to the whole CIA and Brother Thurgood thread. I am beginning to believe it is a waste of time to continue the dialogue with you.

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When our most educated, and best prepared turn their back on our community, stagnation sets in and the men and women who are not the most educated and not the most prepared become the example for those coming behind them. It is up to those of us who are not rich and well off but are educated and prepared to educate our youth and prepare them for what they will face when entering the world.



More to come later!

Your Brother Faheem
Actually the sergeant does make one good point in his entire statement on the matter. If the US government was going to and needed to fake anything it would be the discovery of those "hard to find" WMD because that is the very reason we went to war in the first place.

Trying to fake anything else I think is a wasted effort, soldiers are dying daily, we can't find Saddam and no weapons of mass destruction have turned up and killing Saddams sons whether real or staged is not going to change that.
I heard The U.S already questioned top Iraqi scientists and these people stated that either the WMD did not exist or were already destroyed. The U.S must have offered them villas in Spain and still they denied the existance of the WMD. With Saddams terrible toddlers dead will they now cooperate or are they going to stick to their stories? And what happens if they still do?
quote:
Originally posted by Noah The African:
What reason would the Iraq people have to believe that they are INDEED dead and that this is not simply American propaganda? They have not seen Saddam or his Sons in public since April, thus, they do not know if they were killed in April or killed now. The reality is that unless the Americans can PROVE that they are dead, and then the people will not buy it. Furthermore, the people working on behalf of the regime will spread their own propaganda that they are indeed still alive, if they are dead.

Truth is always fraught with impediments. Truth agreed with is a blessed duet. Truth confronting beloved vice will sever relationships, perpetrate flight, and uncover murderous rage. - Alexander Solzhenitsyn


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Noah The African in America


Didn't the U.S. declare Saddam Hussein dead a month after the war started? believe that they raided or bombed a bunker he was seen fleeing to. OK, yeah whatever. Roll Eyes I agree with you Noah.

Our people have made the mistake of confusing the methods with the objectives. As long as we agree on objectives, we should never fall out with each other just because we believe in different methods, or tactics, or strategy. We have to keep in mind at all times that we are not fighting for separation. We are fighting for recognition as free humans in this society
Malcolm X, 1965
Get this yall, faheem actually thinks he has some 'substance' to dodge. Shame he didn't write about it here, I'd like to see that.

Yo jazzdog, now you getting with the program. Obviously a deception could have easily been carried out long ago. Also its obvious that that is not who Bush is, since he'll find them when he finds them. Thats respectful. That would be 'good' news back on planet earth.

And I'll check with ya on that 'nothing gonna change' stuff. We all gonna know shortly, ain't we. Seems to me once the 'legs' go, the rest is sure to follow. But I'll remember what you said here and now bro'.
Why is this fool making reference to ('bro) and (rap) in this forum? Who told him he had permission to use these liberties with African Americans?
Im sorry to be the one to inform you of this NegroSpiritual but Sergeant is a man of African descent. I know, I know it is hard to believe and almost shocking but he is Black by nature, white by nurture. hehe. Big Grin (I know he gone lub dat one)

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When our most educated, and best prepared turn their back on our community, stagnation sets in and the men and women who are not the most educated and not the most prepared become the example for those coming behind them. It is up to those of us who are not rich and well off but are educated and prepared to educate our youth and prepare them for what they will face when entering the world.



More to come later!

Your Brother Faheem
So, my question is: Would this be considered an assassination? Or just plain old murder? Confused Confused Roll Eyes

Black by Nature, Proud by Choice.
I think you can take your choice, EbonyRose. DEATH, these days, is akin to sitting down having some milk and cookies, to damn near allllllllll humanity.
First, I do not think that time has run out on the planting and faking of WMD. I think that the Administration quickly learned that even without finding WMD, that the majority of Americans would STILL support the invasion. Furthermore, I think that it would be politically strategic to time the finding or uncovering of those weapons sometime next year before the presidential election. The reason being is that the political fallout of not finding WMD has already manifested its damage politically, which has been minimal. However, the dragging economy and continued deaths of American Soldiers, plus resentment from many Iraqis, will slowly erode the president's popularity between now and the next election. Thus, to find WMD at the proper political juncture could really help secure victory for Bush.

Second, deaths of American servicemen and women is the number one phenomenon that could radically change Americans support for the war and the Administration widely believes that resistance is linked to the continued fear of Saddam and his Sons. Thus, they believe (erroneously I think) that cutting off the head or heads, will kill the resistance and thus increase security and reduce the continued killings of soldiers. I mean if they were truly still alive, how would they prove it. Would they come out and say "were not dead.... here we are in tikrit". Maybe they can produce a video like Osamma or Saddam, saying SHOWING that they are alive, but how would one know when such a video was made? The more that Saddam or his sons attempt to communicate, the more they open themselves up to be tracked and traced and killed.

It may be reality that they are indeed dead, but I do not believe that the resistance is being driven by them being alive or feared.

Truth is always fraught with impediments. Truth agreed with is a blessed duet. Truth confronting beloved vice will sever relationships, perpetrate flight, and uncover murderous rage. - Alexander Solzhenitsyn


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Noah The African in America
Oh you are so clever Noah, a true genius. So, given that the adminstration has repeatedly said that it will take some time to find physically small and easily hideable stockpiles of these wmd's, and eventually will find them, you've now set yourself up to remain delusional and in denial when in fact they are found over the next several months?

You go to all that trouble just to ensure your previous bad guesses don't look so bad???
Thats amazing, and a little troubling quite frankly. Perhaps a psychologist would be helpful with that self-delusional issue?

Truth is the 'resistance' is quite limited in numbers and cannot sustain action for very much longer. They are taking huge hits each and every day, and will taper off and hide within the near future like the cowards that they are.

What WILL be interesting is how they will be handled by the Iraqi's themselves once they are brought to Iraqi justice. I can't wait for that!
No I am not clever, I simply understand human and political nature, which is very deceitful and self-serving by empirical evidence. You would be correct in that in a war of attrition that eventually the resistance will fade, however, as of late, when you hear of soldiers getting killed, you do not hear about the people doing the killing being either caught or killed, thus, no attrition from that side, but attrition of the lives of American soldiers.

Iraqi justice???? Is not that what the US is supposed to be FREEING IRAQ FROM. Is not such brutality one of the justifications for LIBERATING IRAQ? Now, you look forward to IRAQI JUSTICE? You sound like just what you are....A FOLLOWER..

Truth is always fraught with impediments. Truth agreed with is a blessed duet. Truth confronting beloved vice will sever relationships, perpetrate flight, and uncover murderous rage. - Alexander Solzhenitsyn


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Noah The African in America
This is a story now running on AOL under the title of TWO AMERICAN SOLDIERS KILLED. What gets me is that only two paragraphs relate to that fact, while the rest is about the killing of the sons and the expected aftermath of it! Is the continued daily killing of our soldiers just a side comment now? And the media uses such a headline to tout the message of the Administration? This is getting really sickening to me!


BAGHDAD (July 23) - Two American soldiers were killed in ambushes in Iraq on Wednesday, denting any U.S. hopes that the deaths of Saddam Hussein's sons, Odai and Qusai, would snuff out a guerrilla insurgency against occupying forces.

An audio tape, purportedly by Saddam and aired by Al Arabiya television, urged Iraqis to keep fighting U.S. forces. The tape was dated July 20 -- two days before Odai and Qusai were killed in a six-hour gunbattle with American troops.

A U.S. military spokesman said one soldier was killed and seven wounded when two vehicles hit a mine near the northern town of Mosul. The brothers had been hiding there in a villa which 200 U.S. soldiers, backed by helicopters, attacked with machine-guns and rockets on Tuesday.

In a separate ambush, another soldier was killed and two wounded when their convoy was attacked near the restive town of Ramadi, west of Baghdad, a hotspot of the ''Sunni triangle'' from where Saddam drew much of his support.

U.S. officials had said they feared an upsurge in attacks as die-hard Saddam loyalists sought to avenge his sons. In Mosul, a dozen youths even staged a brief pro-Saddam protest, waving his picture and chanting their loyalty to the death.

Officers said killing Odai and Qusai would ultimately help silence guerrillas who have killed 41 American soldiers since President George W. Bush declared major combat over on May 1, and give fresh impetus to the search for Saddam himself.

''It confirms that we will succeed in our hunt for former regime members, and in particular Saddam Hussein, wherever they are and however long it takes,'' Lieutenant-General Ricardo Sanchez, commander of ground forces in Iraq, said on Tuesday.

Celebratory shots rang out in Baghdad overnight, but skeptical Iraqis said they wanted proof of the deaths.

Sanchez told a news conference late on Tuesday he would provide evidence to show beyond doubt that Odai, 39, and 37-year-old Qusai, Saddam's ''crown prince,'' were dead.

He said the two were tracked down after a tip-off from a walk-in informant who will probably get the two $15-million rewards the United States offered for information on their whereabouts. Mosul residents said the owner of the villa where they were hiding may have betrayed them to claim the cash.

DEFIANT MESSAGE

Dubai-based Al Arabiya television aired an audio tape in which a voice said to be Saddam's hailed what it called the ''resistance'' to U.S. occupation.

''The battle is not over yet,'' the taped message said.

''We tell our armed forces and our people that if America has achieved military superiority, it will not achieve supremacy in the battle of wills against the Iraqi people.''

Paul Bremer, the U.S. administrator of Iraq, said there was a risk of revenge attacks by Saddam loyalists.

''We could see attacks in the next few days as revenge. But you have to remember that a lot of the attacks that are taking place are being based on the idea that somehow the Saddams are coming back, that he and his sons are coming back,'' he said.

''Well, they're not coming back.''

The United States has offered $25 million for information leading to the capture or killing of Saddam.

''I think we now have a possibility of somebody coming with the big one, somebody who really wants to get the $25 million reward,'' said Bremer, on a visit to the United States. ''It will move the day a bit closer when we get our hands on the father.''

U.S. officials have blamed remnants of Saddam's Baath party and Odai's feared Saddam Fedayeen militia for attacks.

But other groups have also claimed responsibility for the attacks, distancing themselves from Saddam's secular Iraqi nationalism and embracing the Islamist, anti-American slogans of Osama bin Laden's al Qaida network.

Many ordinary Iraqis who say they hated Saddam have denounced the U.S. occupation and called on the Americans to go home. They say U.S. forces have failed to restore law and order and have assaulted Iraqis during house-to-house searches.

Amnesty International said in a report on Wednesday that Iraqis detained by U.S. troops had complained of torture and degrading treatment. There were also reports of troops shooting detainees, the London-based human rights watchdog said.

Odai and Qusai were not noticeably close in life, but they went down fighting side by side in the violent tradition of their clan. Barricading themselves into the villa, they resisted U.S. troops for several hours.

Two other bodies removed from the villa were a grandson of Saddam and an aide of Odai, a U.S. official said.

The deaths of Odai and Qusai will be a boost to Bush and his closest ally, British Prime Minister Tony Blair, who are facing pressure over the failure to find any weapons of mass destruction -- the main justification they gave for going to war against Iraq in the face of international opposition.

Black by Nature, Proud by Choice.
I was being facitious Noah, I don't actually think of you as 'clever'. But I'm glad you agreed with that nonetheless.

Know whats annoying. Fake people who front like they actually care about soldiers. Ain't foolin nobody. Victory in Iraq is inevitable, saddam ain't coming back.

Now all of us take a moment to reflect back on ALL those things that the anti-liberation crowd has been saying over the last year. ALL those little nitpic details and insults, all that predicted catastrophe, all that gloom and doom, all those accusations, all that talk of fear and turmoil in the middle east, and on and on and on and on. And yet, here we are today, and none of that negativity came to be.

Now theres a point in a human beings thought processes that eventually comes to a place where they decidedly turn introspective and say to themselves. 'gee, you know I've been pretty much inaccurate for around a year now, and my views to this point have not quite manifested themselves empirically the way I predicted and told everyone they would. Perhaps I should sit quiet and spend more time in learning, rather than always talking'.

That my friends is called someone capable of 'wisdom'. And not all of us have that capacity by the way. Look around, remember what you've read and heard. And take that inventory, cause its a very important step in the path to wisdom.

Why keep yelling 'fire' in the house when they ain't nobody listening. Iraq IS being rebuilt, and will soon have their country back, and I can't understand why anyone would still be talking like that weren't going to happen. It is happening in front of all your eyes for godsake. Wake up.

The anti-liberation crowd has lost, and the Iraqis have won. Perhaps thats hard to swallow for some, but it must be swallowed if one wishes to exist in reality. There is absolutely nothing anyone has presented here that indicates even remotely that it won't occur.

Time to get over yourselves and face reality. The war has been won by the US. Iraq is reborn. Period.

Ain't no point in deluding yourselves any longer, its over and done with.

[This message was edited by sergeant on July 23, 2003 at 01:20 PM.]
You sound like an arse hole by promoting the spending of billions, if not trillions to help the people of Iraq reach what.... equality, liberty and freedom, while being in the anti-African American liberation camp. Why should we care about promoting increased freedom and opportunity Iraqis, while African America have not fully secured freedom and equality here at home?

You an old FOOL.... FOOL.

Truth is always fraught with impediments. Truth agreed with is a blessed duet. Truth confronting beloved vice will sever relationships, perpetrate flight, and uncover murderous rage. - Alexander Solzhenitsyn


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Noah The African in America
Do you know what's annoying to me? Fake people who act like they really care about Blacks, but don't and just want to inject their opinion as if it really matters. The anti-liberation crowd has lost, but the Iraqi's haven't won yet. They want the occupying coalition forces out of Iraq and Bush and Blair are too arrogant to see it.

Our people have made the mistake of confusing the methods with the objectives. As long as we agree on objectives, we should never fall out with each other just because we believe in different methods, or tactics, or strategy. We have to keep in mind at all times that we are not fighting for separation. We are fighting for recognition as free humans in this society
Malcolm X, 1965
Listening to talk radio shows today, the knuckle head Hannity said that the killing of these two men proves that U.S. intelligence is working. Hmmm... If you call a family member walking up to troops and telling them that Saddam sons are in a certain place proof that U.S. intelligence is working, I guess it is working.

This seems like an intelligence failure if anything, the men were still in the country and in a city within miles of where U.S. soldiers are located.

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When our most educated, and best prepared turn their back on our community, stagnation sets in and the men and women who are not the most educated and not the most prepared become the example for those coming behind them. It is up to those of us who are not rich and well off but are educated and prepared to educate our youth and prepare them for what they will face when entering the world.



More to come later!

Your Brother Faheem
Yeah, they are dead, and it was a failure. I suppose if they were still alive, that would be what, a 'success'? (hehehe)

How can you folks look yourself in the mirror and not laugh every morning?

Yssys still thinks the Iraqs gonna kick us out or something. Thats so naive its sad.

First off, I'd like to remind everyone:
NO, I repeat,
NO HUMANITARIAN CRISIS ever occurred as ALL the anti-liberation folks had so loudly predicted.

No HUMANITARIAN crisis, NO STARVATION, AND NO WIDESPREAD RESENTMENT or MASSIVE CIVIL UNREST as ALL the anti-liberators would have had you believe would happen prior to the war. The war was won quickly, and HAS to be amongst the smoothest war operations ever seen by mankind.

Now pay attention:

NO REFUGEE CRISIS occurred. I recall that headline that claimed there'd be a refugee crisis "totaling in the millions", and that was the favorite chant of the 'sky is falling' crowd before the war, and from those who would have denied the Iraqis their freedom.

IT DID NOT HAPPEN.
IT DID NOT HAPPEN.
IT DID NOT HAPPEN.

I can't make it any clearer than that.

Now, one must ask oneself, who is worth 'listening' to, and who is 'not'. Why would any 'anti-liberation' voice actually be taken seriously after what we now know about all those predictions they were making that were so far from reality?

Now, the list of accomplishments in Iraq is too long for this site, so I'll touch on just a few majors. In reality, the accomplishments there are unprecendented in recent history. The electric is back, and in some areas BETTER, the water is better all over. The food system is established and securely functioning. Over 80 cities and towns now have municipal city councils accountable to the people. Over 100 brand spanking new NEWSPAPERS have been formed and are circulating wildly throughout Iraq, in addition to a television news org that will begin soon. Satellite dishes and tv's are now broadcasting throughout Iraq. A CENTRAL BANK has now been put into operation, and the minting of a unique Iraqi currency is due in about a month. About 8,000 Iraqi soldiers are now being trained for the new Iraqi army. ALL, I repeat ALL of the hospitals in Iraq are up and functioning, with MORE medical supplies and doctors than pre-war levels. ALL of the many universities in Iraq have now reopened and are accepting students. Iraqi Police forces, unallied with saddam, are now in every city and town in Iraq.

I mean, the list goes on and on and on. And REMEMBER, the administration has done this all in only about 3 months!!!!! Incredibly remarkable!

Who on god's earth told you Yssys, that the Iraqis are upset about being liberated???? Thats so utterly ridiculous that I worry for your sanity!!! I swear, you need turn off that CNN, its poison.

[This message was edited by sergeant on July 24, 2003 at 11:47 AM.]


[This message was edited by sergeant on July 24, 2003 at 11:54 AM.]


[This message was edited by sergeant on July 24, 2003 at 11:56 AM.]


[This message was edited by sergeant on July 24, 2003 at 11:58 AM.]
Sergeant, All that intellectual masturbation and for what? You changed my argument and you changed sister Yssys argument and then attacked the changes you made to the arguments. That is intellectual masturbation because you are debating against yourself.

My argument was that the finding and killing of Saddam sons was not an intelligence success because it was not U.S. intelligence that found their location, a family member gave them up. If you call having a family member walk up to a soldier and say I know where such and such is an intelligence success then I guess you are right. I am sure the thirty million dollar reward had nothing to do with it either. I would have told where these fools were for thirty million dollars. My point was not about these men being dead or alive being a success or failure; it was about U.S. intelligence being a success or failure.

Sister Yssys stated that "They want the occupying coalition forces out of Iraq and Bush and Blair are too arrogant to see it" They being the Iraqi people. You changed her argument to "Yssys still thinks the Iraqs gonna kick us out or something" Did she say that or did you? I could understand if you interpreted her words to mean something other than what she said but her statement was clear and says nothing about Iraqi men and women kicking U.S. soldiers out. How could they do that, they don't have the power to do so.

Then you proceed to attack arguments made by men and women on TV who are democrats as if those arguments were made here by the members of this board. I do not recall any arguments about a refugee crisis, starvation and a humanitarian crisis being made on this site. I do recall arguments about the Iraqi people will not be overwhelmingly happy about the U.S. occupying their country and that holds true. Clearly there are those who are happy the U.S. is there but there are as many people who do not want them there.

All those things that you listed that are happening over in Iraq now is good, I read there is cell phone usage in Iraq now, that is great but none of the good that have come from an illegal war makes the war just. There are many examples of bad making good things possible for hundreds of people in the case of Iraq thousands. Take the rapper Jay-Z for instance who openly brags about pushing weight and being a big drug dealer back in the day, this illegal life of his made it possible for him to buy studio time, respect from being a big drug dealer got him guest spots on other artist albums, and now he owns a record label, employ tons of people, owns a clothing line that employs tons of people and make it possible for them to make a living. All the good that have come from his illegal business does not mean being a drug dealer was a good thing but you sure as hell can make the argument that it was.

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When our most educated, and best prepared turn their back on our community, stagnation sets in and the men and women who are not the most educated and not the most prepared become the example for those coming behind them. It is up to those of us who are not rich and well off but are educated and prepared to educate our youth and prepare them for what they will face when entering the world.



More to come later!

Your Brother Faheem
FAHEEM...

It's interesting that you made the comparison of GOOD Coming From BAD using [Ex]-Drug Dealing Rappers... I do believe SGT. had some disparaging words for these models of [Black] capitalism.

I guess when you're the SARGE you're in CHARGE and no contradiction can faze you cause you make the rules...

Truth is... the ENDS do NOT justify the MEANS!
Let us not forget for one minute that what happened to Saddam's sons is happening to America's sons and daughters too. We're just not being shown the "pictures". My heart goes out to allllllll America's parents who have children fighting in this "war". I know they're having FITS of pure worry!!!
Norland ....

A co-worker and I were saying that very same thing today ... if we had sons or husbands or brothers over there, we'd probably be stark-raving lunatics right about now!!

I read a story the other day of a woman and her infant sone, who has moved in with her mother-in-law while her husband is over in Iraq, and she said it's their daily ritual now to get up, get a cup of coffee and sit in front of the TV in the mornings to try to get the location of the latest death or ambush (since the media rarely releases names immediately), and she was saying how depressing that is sometimes! I can only imagine their apprehension!

Black by Nature, Proud by Choice.
ok Faheem, give us your listing of who the cia can 'properly' receive their information from according to you, in order to be a 'success'.
1)
2)
3)

Your so naive, do you have any idea the number of people, or the number of bits of data that intelligence services receive each and every day that turns out to be false?????

please, they were the enemy, they are dead. its a success. And the case on them is closed.

I mean talk about mental masturbation, what on earth is the point of calling the finding and killing of the enemy a 'failure'?? What political point did you think you can make? I mean, if you were right, then I hope there is a long string of these very same FAILURES then, dig?

THEY ARE DEAD!!! EVERYONE WINS!!

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