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Faith is something that people buy into. Without a clear vision to focus the mind and energy, there can be no faith. That's part of why I started this thread, to attempt to better clarify what some of the 'out of the system' solutions might be.
Unfortunately, IMO, it will take a critical mass with a particular sizeable following to accomplish larger revolutionary goals. I don't see that happening until our education is back in our hands so to speak.
Honestly, the feeling is mutual. I don't see the "working the system" vision or at least not one that's aimed at the objectives it seems most of us across the board deem important.
The vision for Working Outside The System is a means and ends unto itself. It's a matter of principle. That alone is a vision that's worthwhile.
I do submit that it's particularly asking for more from non-conformists (aka those who do not believe in "working within the system") because there is no existing template, so to speak, for them to draw on. For those like you who believe in "working the system"... well, you have the system itself and the "successes" produced by it as your "vision".
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Members, off the top of my head, who have expressed ideas that the system may not be the answer are you, Oshun Auset, Faheem, AudioGuy, soul_doctor73. You remeber Noah The African from a year or so ago perhaps as well. Others have embraced both revolution and repatriation in the past.
Well, MBM, it's pretty clear that none of those posters besides Soul Doctor (and the un-named BlaqFist) have presented the most "extreme" positions. That was my point. At one time, it seemed you confused me with BlaqFist... It just think it's important to be accurate. I understand your focus here but it doesn't help when you don't recognize the actual positions of the most prolific or steady posters with opposing views from yours.
Back to the faith thing... vision or not, most people are not going to have faith in something until they have resounding evidence that it works. And really that isn't even the best way to describe it. Most people will simply ride the bandwagon.
Faith is the substance of things hoped for... The Evidence of things not seen...
If you believe that to be an acceptable definition of faith then, IMO, it really amounts to the PRINCIPLES you deem as unconditional and ones you feel can't be compromised.
You say you agree with my point about Education... but it seems the "working within the system" mindset has compromised that principle and some can't seem to grasp the importance of it.
I've said:
No People Can Expect The Best From Its Youth When They Leave It To Others To Educate Them.Now, I welcome critiques of that but that is that exact education principle I mentioned that I'm sure everybody would agree with but when put in that axiomatic form causes some people to voice something less than agreement for whatever reason.
My question is: How do we approach educating ourselves (our people) and in-turn turning our situation around without a mindset like that?
For one, that's a Statement Of Faith. A statement that says we are capable of educating ourselves at a high level complete with a focused and Liberation Oriented emphasis. And Revolution is first and foremost a mindset.
So, realistically, anything I have said before in opposition, philosophically or otherwise, to the idea of "working the system/working within the system" takes the evolutionary steps of education into account.
I also believe in a Town Hall Meeting approach towards political mobilization. You might recall our Black Assembly discussions. Well, towards any collective political ends, I see those type of grassroots actions as imperative.
It's no mystery to me that we agree on certain things. And, IMO, our differences are mostly philosophical. Perhaps, a more pointed question about what's the economic plan... the education plan... the political plan, etc. might help flesh out the things you want to hear here. I dunno. Your question as it is, is very broad. IMO, that's what gives you the vague responses you get. Or maybe its just me.