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Since nobody that ever owned a slave or was a slave in USA has been alive for a couple hundred years, the only reparations I think should be done are reparations for CURRENT racism. Yes that is acceptable.

However, I think a specific segment of the population must pay this money. I'm talking about all those white supremacist organizations out there. The KKK, for instance. (incidentally, Senator Robert W. Byrd, D.-W.V.--was a recruiter for the KKK back in the 1940s. According to Chris Matthews, who was Tip O'Neill's intern, Tip used to call Senator Byrd "Sheets" because of that. "Come here, 'sheets.'")

Yeah these racist organizations MUST PAY. I wholeheartedly believe that overtly racist people must feel the pain in their pocketbooks. After all it is f***nuts like them that make life miserable for everybody else due to their actions and attitudes.

Closet racists might be a little harder to ding, but definitely easy to get the cash of prominent organizations. How about a class-action lawsuit? I'm sure there's plenty of lawyers that would love to take that on. Smile

"You liberals with your conspiracy theories are starting to sound like your own version of the John Birch Society"-Rush Limbaugh
"You liberals with your conspiracy theories are starting to sound like your own version of the John Birch Society"-Rush Limbaugh
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Although no individual slaves or slave owners are still alive today .... the Government still is!! Eek

That would be the same Government who sanctioned, condoned, participated in, enacted laws to perpetuate, punished opponents of, used to it's own advantage, initiated the legality of and immeasurably profitted from the institution of slavery! (Hmmm ... did I leave anything out??)

Yes, the United States Government is still the United States Goverment!! For the wrongs committed by the United States Goverment, the United States Government should pay!!

Isn't that what you're saying, shebakoby?? Confused
quote:
Since nobody that ever owned a slave or was a slave in USA has been alive for a couple hundred years, the only reparations I think should be done are reparations for CURRENT racism. Yes that is acceptable.

Oh! Snappppp! We fin'sta get paid!!

Stupid SHEBAKOBY...
If you go by current racism aside from it not being a "past wrong" then Black people should rack up. Just look at the way K-12 schools are funded and how that falls so much along racial lines just like it did in the "past".

Your attempt to be cute only opens up more by way of what we should seek redress for. THANKS!
quote:
Yeah these racist organizations MUST PAY. I wholeheartedly believe that overtly racist people must feel the pain in their pocketbooks. After all it is f***nuts like them that make life miserable for everybody else due to their actions and attitudes.
I don't recall the KKK or whoever you would call "overtly" racist running the U.S. gov't...
They didn't make the racist laws then and I really don't think they make 'em now.

Black people have always and still have serious problems with the way the U.S. gov't treats us and the misery of the whole society as it relates to us is what we have a problem with. Personally, I could careless about so-called White Supremacy groups. If you listen closely you will know that we call the whole country and the Western Powers White Supremist in nature...

So... Call the FED! We're coming to collect! Big Grin
... You said that's acceptable... Wink
Maaaaaaan the government isn't alive. This is a different sort of 'reparations.'

It doesn't matter whether the KKK is running the government. The fact is they influence people to make other people feel bad about themselves, or scared. This entitles people to punitive damages under the law. After all, that is current. Sue-age for emotional distress.

Yeah let's dig up the people that ran the government 200 years ago and get money outta them...heh.

Freaking while you're at it why don't you sue Sen. Rob. W. Byrd's white @$$ off for being a KKK member in the 1940's? That's in living memory! AND HE IS IN THE GOVERNMENT!!!!!

BTW if you wanna know why your K-12 education system is F***ED you need look no further than the goddamn NEA and the Democrats to whom they are beholden.
Professor Walter E. Williams of George Mason University has said on numerous occasions that the Grand Dragon of the KKK couldn't do any better at 'keeping the black man down' than the current U.S. public education system. AND THAT'S WITH LIBERAL DEMOCRATS HAVING RUN THE FREAKING SHOW THE PAST 50 YEARS!!!!!
"You liberals with your conspiracy theories are starting to sound like your own version of the John Birch Society"-Rush Limbaugh
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Dude...

Ain't nobody scared of the Klan!

The KKK itself in "overt" form is not terrorizing Black people now (so much). The terror is those things mentioned... "White Supremacist organization" can't possibly cause as much pain and suffering and never could without the government's complicity whether they have operatives there or not.

White supremacy is American socialization...

The bigger enemy to Black people are those who act as if they are our friend's yet work counter to our interest and have no interest that translates into real sustained action (f~ck words) to address our concerns.
So nmaginate, obviously you are not a part of american society, correct? So tell us, are you socialized into any society 'anywhere'? And if so, by which nation is that? In which nation do you live, and since you do not consider the US as your nation and have given up on the US, where would you like to settle someday and fulfill your dreams of 'sustained action'? What are 'our' concerns as you see them, and how do they differ from the aspirations and wishes of other races or other people's throughout the world?
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quote:
Originally posted by shebakoby:
Since nobody that ever owned a slave or was a slave in USA has been alive for a couple hundred years, ...


Um...the Civil War ended in 1865, I believe. Thus there were certianly people born into slavery in this country in early 1865.

Assuming that at least one of these former slaves lived to be 80 years of age, he or she would have lived to read about the dawn of the Atomic Age, with Nuclear Weapons used for their first time in Hiroshima and Nagisaki.

If he or she lived to be 90 years of age, he or she read about Rosa Park's arrest in 1955.

If he or she lived to be 91, then he or she may have heard about the bombing of Dr. Martin Luthor King's house in 1956.

He or she would have been 92 when I was born in 1957.

At 103, he or she would have watched news reports on TV of MLK's assination in 1968.

"La vida te da sorpresas...
Sorpresas te da la vida...",
¡Ay, Dios!

Rubén Blades---Pedro Navaja


Plowshares Actions
The Nuclear Resister
School of the Americas Watch

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Ummm ... did I say that government?? Confused C'mon now ... y'all grab your "Hooked on Phonics" books and try to keep up!! Eek

THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT then and now is the same entity!! Regardless of who's in it, it is still the governing body of this country! It was then and it is now!! Is it some kinda of revelation for you that the government is not a person? You said it as if it were a major discovery or something!! I think the majority of intelligent human beings already knew that! But welcome to the club, anyway! Razz

And did I say I wanted George Washington's money?? Or Abe Lincoln's?? Or any other dead slave-holding individual's for that matter?? I don't think so. I said I wanted the government's money! Which also happens to be some of my own! Eek But, I must admit, the better part would be getting some of yours in the process!

I want the Gov't to pay Black people for the indignities and discrimination it heaped upon my ancestors. (Not to mention what it is still heaping on me and mine today!) I wouldn't want your personal check ... not that you would give it to me, or that it would be any good!! But gov't funds ... community funds as it were ... is a different matter! And the fact that you and other like you have paid into it makes it even sweeter! Wink I believe those funds should be set aside for the interests that concern Black people and our communities.

Insurance companies that paid compensation to slave owners for the loss and death of their slaves are just as liable! I want their money too! And I can only hope that one(s) that you do business with will be the hardest hit!
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quote:
Originally posted by shebakoby:
Since nobody that ever owned a slave or was a slave in USA has been alive for a couple hundred years, the only reparations I think should be done are reparations for CURRENT racism. Yes that is acceptable.

However, I think a specific segment of the population must pay this money. I'm talking about all those white supremacist organizations out there. The KKK, for instance. (incidentally, Senator Robert W. Byrd, D.-W.V.--was a recruiter for the KKK back in the 1940s. According to Chris Matthews, who was Tip O'Neill's intern, Tip used to call Senator Byrd "Sheets" because of that. "Come here, 'sheets.'")

Yeah these racist organizations MUST PAY. I wholeheartedly believe that overtly racist people must feel the pain in their pocketbooks. After all it is f***nuts like them that make life miserable for everybody else due to their actions and attitudes.

Closet racists might be a little harder to ding, but definitely easy to get the cash of prominent organizations. How about a class-action lawsuit? I'm sure there's plenty of lawyers that would love to take that on. Smile




Let's examine your logic, Ms. Canada. According to you since no one ever owned a slave is still living and the slaves are subsequently also no longer alive, no reparations should be paid. The wholesale forced mass exodus of Africans from Africa definitely had an effect on the future prospects for Africa. Decreasing the population and making it easier for Europe to conquer and colonize Africa is a crime in itself. If Europeans don't feel that they owe New World Africans anything, you can't deny that they owe Africa for robbing them of their people and their rightful land. In addition to that, the people they made slaves worked from "sunup to sundown" with NO pay. I believe that Jews as a people took Volkswagen to court suing them for reparations for slave labor when they were forced to work in their factories. They won their case based on maybe a total of 4 years forced, unpaid labor. I think that 350 years of unpaid labor and another 140 years of less than equal pay definitely deserves back pay. And if America didn't think they could pay the cost, they should've left our ancestors alone over in Africa!

"I am a child of God, a servant of Allah, a child of Shango, a child of Oshun, no matter what anyone does to me."
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Originally posted by ThePower:
  • So nmaginate, obviously you are not a part of american society, correct? So tell us, are you socialized into any society 'anywhere'? And if so, by which nation is that?

  • In which nation do you live, and since you do not consider the US as your nation and have given up on the US, where would you like to settle someday and fulfill your dreams of 'sustained action'?

  • What are 'our' concerns as you see them, and how do they differ from the aspirations and wishes of other races or other people's throughout the world?
  • Bruce Springstein... "I was... Born in the USA!"

  • I have every confidence in human beings everywhere and an undying love, affection, and faith in Black people...

    My friend, I have faith in the transforming power/capacity of change. Change... or should I say MLK like "RADICAL CHANGE in the STRUCTURE of American Society" is what I have all the confidence in the world in. I dare say you may not at all...

  • PRIORITIES... priorities... I can't tell you that you need to remodel the interior of your house (since maybe I do) if you need a new roof!

    """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
    "Racism systematically verifies itself anytime the slave can only be free by imitating his master." -Jamil Abdullah Al-Amin (H. Rap Brown)
  • So basically, you are living in the past. Thats not going to be helpful to anyone today. Thats a big problem in our community. Those who do not recognize that 'gubment' is done, that is, the laws have been changed, the legistlation has been passed, and basically there is nothing left to be done in this area. There's not going to be a 'civil rights act' sequel part II, if thats what you were looking dreamily forward to. MLK was very successful, now its up to us to use wisely what he has provided for us, not keep waiting for someone else to provide even more as if MLK had done nothing.
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    The holocaust happened over 60 years ago and Jewish people are still suing over their 6 years under German human rights violations. I dare you to say that to one of them.
    Black people are no less any human than they are. We have to right to demand just rectification for the same human rights violations, loss of life and property. That's what you are not willing to accept. Maybe you ought to read NoahTheAfrican's list. You are in violation of the "Move On" tactic.
    Come with something a bit more than:
    "So basically, you are living in the past. That's not going to be helpful to anyone today."

    Our people have made the mistake of confusing the methods with the objectives. As long as we agree on objectives, we should never fall out with each other just because we believe in different methods, or tactics, or strategy. We have to keep in mind at all times that we are not fighting for separation. We are fighting for recognition as free humans in this society
    Malcolm X, 1965
    Oshun, are you aware of the population problems throughout africa? For example, if the US contained 800 million people like in Africa, we'd hardly survive here in any way resembling how we do now, shortages would resemble those throughout Africa. Population growth and overcrowding are two of Africa's biggest concerns today. Despite your feelings on this issue, the fact is that slaves were SOLD by Africans. The slave trade was not a 'new' institution, it had existed in Africa since the dawn of time.
    First off, the jews had been decimated FAR longer than just 6 years by the Nazis. And yes, there are lawsuits, but they certainly aren't suing the 'Nazi' government are they. Noone can stop anyone from suing a company or institution that one can demonstrate wronged our people. Jesse does it all the time. But to think that todays taxpayers are going to accept a massive penalty for something they were never involved with or are guilty of, to pay off people who were never wronged themselves with slavery, is little more than a get rich quick pipedream for black and jewish attorneys. I mean its alright to understand 'why' attorneys want to seek these funds, but to believe its going to happen or is even 'justified' is not thinking realistically.
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    Yes, there are lawsuits, but they certainly aren't suing the 'Nazi' government are they.
    Will you grow a brain?? Eek

    The GERMAN gov't, corporations including American ones as well as European, and the whole lot have paid European Jewish Reparations/restitution...
    quote:
    Elderly Holocaust survivors in 31 countries will receive $15 million in assistance this year from German insurance companies, advocates announced Monday.

    The money is the first of what will be 10 annual disbursements from $132 million in humanitarian funds secured by the International Commission on Holocaust-Era Insurance Claims.

    The German Foundation for Remembrance, Responsibility and the Future agreed to provide the funds after years of negotiations.

    "We were successful in making the gigantic insurance companies accountable for their misdeeds during the Holocaust, enabling us to bring some solace to thousands of survivors," said Roman Kent, chairman of the American Gathering of Jewish Holocaust Survivors.

    The German fund was initially set up to pay out compensation to the estimated 1 million now elderly people who were forced to work for the Nazi war machine. It includes contributions by private companies and the German government.


    << LINK >> The GERMAN government PAID!
    Can you provide proof to the contrary other than you ignorant (that means without knowledge) claims??

    MORE PROOF (from me)
      Clinton White House's point man was negotiating major settlements with the German and Austrian governments, and charging the incoming U.S. administration wasn't paying attention to restitution matters...

    • ...helped negotiate the $5.2 billion German settlement for former World War II slave and forced laborers.

    • Austria agreed to establish a $310 million compensation fund for victims of the Holocaust and France has established a $350 million foundation and an uncapped claims fund. Other countries have set up restitution plans as well...

      << LINK >> Research the CLAIMS CONFERENCE and The Jewish Bulletin News Of Northern California
    Silly Rabbit!
    Nmaginate,

    Some people will look any situation in the eye and acknowledge it as valid...but when that same mirrored situation applies to BLACK people....there will always be something wrong with the proposal......their minds have been socialized to always think that way......the attitude of the racist or the sorry azz black apologist in america can make you really deal with them on their level if one is not careful to always remain detached from their philosophies.....but one must still deal with them accordingly.
    quote:
    the attitude of the racist or the sorry azz black apologist in america can make you really deal with them on their level if one is not careful to always remain detached from their philosophies.....but one must still deal with them accordingly.
    Care to explain...

    Do you feel I have "stooped" to their level? Am I not 'detached'?

    I'll explain this...
    Actually while I respect the "traditional" path of Black politics/resistance... I don't think it has gone far enough. I guess I'm a hopeless yet hopeful, determined radical. So my critiques may share some of the same language in some aspects as "conservatives" but share the same aspirations/goals/and objectives of the so-called Liberal Black Leadership...

    I sense some confusion on that (I think...)

    So yes to some degree (from a political standpoint mostly) I do believe we have "settled" - and I use that word with reluctance - for the "fish"...

    I'm just a stern believer in self-determination from the top-down... I think my positions are clear...
    quote:
    Originally posted by ThePower:
    Oshun, are you aware of the population problems throughout africa? For example, if the US contained 800 million people like in Africa, we'd hardly survive here in any way resembling how we do now, shortages would resemble those throughout Africa. Population growth and overcrowding are two of Africa's biggest concerns today. Despite your feelings on this issue, the fact is that slaves were SOLD by Africans. The slave trade was not a 'new' institution, it had existed in Africa since the dawn of time.


    ThePower, where are you getting your information regarding the "population problems" of Africa? Charleston Heston, was the spokesperson for a group calling for world population control. I can't recall the name right now, but they ran infomercials in the 1980's about controlling the population. Why is it percieved that Africa and even Asian nations have a population control problem or need assistance with their populations? The press propaganda machine. Africa doesn't need help with their population. They need Europeans to get out of Africa, that's the only population that needs to be controlled because they have colonized African all over again. This time just economically and Europe is continuing to suck the life out of Africa.
    If you take the time to examine facts about Africa, you'll see that Africa is large enough and enriched enough to support the people that live there.

    "I am a child of God, a servant of Allah, a child of Shango, a child of Oshun, no matter what anyone does to me."
    Not at all Nmaginate,

    I think similar to you......on getting ours through individual efforts while STILL holding the US gov't accountable for its actions. I also believe that blacks are entitled to any resource anyone else utilizes...and shouldn't give a damn what kinda perception others try to attach to it. What I am saying is that one has to be careful to not let that bs they talk poision their mind by embracing any of it with one iota of reality/validity.....but at the same time check their azzes and educate them on why they are talking nonsense......

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