Regarding Michael.

Well spoken Ironhorse while intelligent and civilized discussions would be fine, that assumption is based on the notion that the person you are dealing with is at least as intelligent as you or the other members of this forum and can at least provide some evidence of what he speaks. Of course there is plenty of BS going around here or else the site wouldn't be any fun but I suspect that Lofton is quite sincere in some of his postings therefore we have a right to be sincere in asking for proof of his statements.

At various times members of this forum have asked Lofton for evidence of his claims especially the ones that make you sit up and go hmmmm, but if you look at alot of his postings, most of them have the same tired old links to past injustices aganist him family and while initially they make for interesting reading they get old very quick especially when they have nothing to do with what is being posted, and while not a big fan of Jesse Jackson and others like him, I still find it fairly easy not to encompass the entire black middle class in a vast conspiracy as Lofton has.

It is simply not a matter of thinking like others or conforming to a specific set of rules, but open and honest discussion still is build on the idea that a claim especially one as outragous as the Emmitt Till one be supported with evidence that includes more then relatives and family members as your proof. I seriously doubt that anybody after reading some of my postings would be so bold to paint me as conforming to a certain set of ideas on this site. Perhaps the best approach would be to simply let Lofton post as he wills and just ignore the more dubious of his postings and attempt to converse with him on subjects that at least make sense and are supported by facts and not imagination.

Oh, I'm way beyond taking anything that Lofton says seriously.

For the most part, I just skim through his posts, looking for key phrases like "illegal immigrant Merv Dymally", just to make sure that my responses to him are appropiate.

quote:

Originally posted by ricardomath:
Oh, I'm way beyond taking anything that Lofton says seriously.

For the most part, I just skim through his posts, looking for key phrases like "illegal immigrant Merv Dymally", just to make sure that my responses to him are appropiate.

**People get what they give....if they come at people in a rude and insulting (literally and to the intelligence of others) manner, that is what they deserve in return.....reciprocation is fair in nature....but this board has been preoccupied with lunacy and it distracts from the real issues that could be covered....man I admire Faheem, him and Julian Bond are the only two people who I know that can address a damn fool and let their own communication methods remain unaffected by it....I tend to tell a damn fool why they are a damn fool and dismiss the rest...especially when they are trying to be demeaning and talk down to people as if they are stupid.......

quote:

Perhaps the best approach would be to simply let Lofton post as he wills and just ignore the more dubious of his postings and attempt to converse with him on subjects that at least make sense and are supported by facts and not imagination.

By JazzDog

Like: Nice weather we're having. Don't you think? That's about all we can discuss with Lofton.

Ironhorse:

How can you say that "[we] things a little too seriously on this site" in supporting Lofton's anti-intellectual postings.

You're right. I that it seriously when someone posts out and out , as fact.

IMO, There are other sections for having fun. Civil discourse is one thing, nonsense, quite another.

Personally, I don't believe that "Issues & Politics" is the place for "fun" nonsense. There are other sections for having fun.

Hello IRONHORSE,

"I investigated this issue about Michael's discussion on Emmit Till. I have to admit, Michael was wrong in throwing the first insult, however, you people are supposed to be educated intellectuals. There was no need for so many insults to be exchanged." by IRONHORSE

"......just want some proof that is geniune and not tied to subject matter experts consisting of nothing but Lofton family members." by jazzdog

....as if my family is the only set of individuals condemning our own Black leadership, and many of the actions of that treasonous Black middleclass who praise this dishonorable and truly destructive to the future posterity of the Black community activity.

"It is sunny and mild....but we still have a few fools here in LA who think they are an object of importance in the lives of others....to the extent that they think other people are going to take away time and resources from their everyday lives and devote their good time to to do something to THEM...as if other people see THEM in such a great light that they are actually WORTH the effort....the weather is good here, but some of the inhabitants are "off their rockers"......." by Kevin41, some university professor this guy must be.

.....which is why I find it very difficult not to refer to Kevin41 as being a Pompous Professor of Pomposity.

.....indeed, as you well know the insults fly daily. I don't let this bother me though. The serious issues that truly exist, as it relates to condemning a truly disgraceful Black elected leadership, and that treasonous Black middleclass who praise them, are being trashed by the very same individuals throwing the insults.

Heck, the Black community faces extinction because of this treasonous and self-destructive activity, and now the so called Black intellectual can only ridicule me, or anyone else of similar mindset or dis-satisfaction, for expressing a reality that is not news, an issue that is so serious, that the Black middleclass better get busy, or the entire Black community's days are indeed numbered.

......Well, as usual the usual responses, by a Kevin41, Kweli4Real, etc.,etc.

.......Funny how a ricardomath, and/or other individuals who are not represented by a Merv Dymally, and/or other misfits, would expect the people who actually reside in the precinct, district, or jurisdiction, etc., who have plenty of reason to condemn these individuals, very good reason to remove them from a position of influence, to sit quietly and not express their dissatisfaction.

......Nope, can't show where anyone in my family has any relationship to the many truths mentioned by others that coincide with some of the same realities I have also expressed.

....but it must all be unfounded....

Sure, sure, sure,....... more likely, rather than unfounded, this information is as true as the truth can get!

....as you have stated, IRONHORSE, many of the responses of some people on this board need to be condemned, ridiculed, contested, etc.,

....and you couldn't have expressed this clearer than to say that this is truly an embarrassment to anyone presumed to be an educator, a professional, or anyone of average intelligence.

.....Heck, some AfricanAmerica.org members even blame the CIA, drug dealers, etc., for issues that Black people have the power to stop or correct, just by making it their business not to be a part of this very deadly and self-destructive illicit activity!

.....I have my faults. No one is perfect. More so than my shortcomings though, far too many Black people have some serious issues, issues that only they can correct, just by being ethical, using common sense, and/or being respectful to both themselves and/or others.

...and ricardomath since you are not a resident nor are you subjected to the whims of that no good elected leadership in an "illegal immigrant" Merv Dymally, Brentwood Burke, etc., your input is meaningless!

"Oh, I'm way beyond taking anything that Lofton says seriously." by ricardomath

....this is reason enough, to take you serious enough, to make the statements that I have made about you, statements such as.....

.....as for ricardomath, you are not a part of this equation, a conflict of interest exists between you, and the reality of life as it pertains to the Black community, and again you have no connection to the many realities of being Black in the United States of America.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

You are right, Michael--you make mistakes--everyone makes mistakes, which is what I find to be particularly appauling about the behavior of some of these people on this site.

I am an educator myself, and to be surrounded by other so-called educators, particularly post secondary educators, that slander individuals they feel may not be as aware of certain topics as they are is particularly troubling to me, let alone embarrassing.

You would think it would be the mindset, an occupational hazard, as an educator, to want to educate individuals that may present incorrect information or are looking for correct information instead of ganging up on them to kick them down. Even though I'm not fully aware of the history of your interaction with these individuals, I still feel it is shrewd and evil, let alone, unprofessional, the way they conduct themselves.

Regardless of a person's state of mind or level of knowledge, an educator should have the integrity to do what they are trained to do--what should be in their nature to do--enlighten minds. A wise person once said, "An educator can do two things to a student; an educator can destroy a student's dream or inspire a child to dream." I would prefer the latter.

Personally, and generally speaking, if I encounter a person that may express questionable information, I would rather correct that person than insult them for making the mistake they made in the process of correcting them. It's also just common sense and courteousy to just walk away or pass by a discussion if whatever is being discussed doesn't express sound judgement.

Unfortunately, some of the people on this site do the opposite--they read someone's topic, see what they think are errors in logic and they proceed in ganging up on that individual to verbally abuse him or her. That isn't COMMUNITY, that's alienation.

What I also found to be amusing, in a pessimistic way, is, even when particular individuals are proven wrong in their accusations, they respond, out of embarrassment, with a myriad of insults, following that person in every forum they post discussions in, and continuously slander and taunt that person, which is very childish. That isn't INTELLIGENCE--it's stupidity.

I've also found, when proven wrong, they disappear from the topic altogether or try to cover up their ignorance by shifting their pointless responses to other irrelevent points that are moot instead of expressing the truth of standing to be corrected--that, indeed, is, in my opinion, not BLACK but very niggerish.

IronHorse,

You have to realize that Lofton has a long history here, and everybody's interraction with him has pretty much fallen into a continuing pattern.

And that pattern has been a direct result of Lofton's actions here and elsewhere, and his posting style.

Actually, I originally found this forum through Lofton, when he posted a link on another forum to one of his threads here, with an invitation to comment (which I did), a couple of years ago. (You know how Lofton loves to link to his threads!)

As for being an educator, I wouldn't presume to attempt to educate anybody on any subject outside of mathematics. I post in forums mainly for fun, even when I am posting on serious subjects. Any education that might occure, either of myself or others, is a bonus.

I understand what you're saying, Ricardo, and I took that into consideration (Michael's history)before I made this discussion. To each is his own--I understand people are going to behave however they choose but they should also understand that their actions won't go unoticed, which is very apparent from how all of these people feel they're giving me some shocking news when they tell me they've read my threads, as if I give a fuck--Duh, it's open to the public. I have nothing to hide and nothing to be ashamed of in what I say on this site.

Nevertheless, Ricardo, let's talk, man to man, Maestro e Maestro--Okay, so you're a math instructor--I'm an art instructor--but we both recieved the same core education: Foundations of Education, Measurment and Assessment, Educational Research, Educational Psychology, etc. The point I'm making is, we are trained to approach situations like these an many others from a pedagogical point of view rather than as a regular person.

Now, if you want to use this site and interact in a more casual manner, then fine, I'm here to do the same, which I have clearly expressed on more than one occasion. I understand that from time to time we're going to get a little silly and joke around but to compulsively insult someone is unecessary no matter what the reason or excuse.

Don't look at this as me scolding you or whatever negative perception that may be interpreted from this discussion--I just feel that people should be allowed to make mistakes, and when they make mistakes, the person that has taken it upon themselves to correct that person should do it in a more tactful way.

I'll admit, I saw that comment Michael made--calling you "Buckwheat" and that rude comment he made in reference to your wife--that was so tasteless but then again, if it were me and so many people habitually attacked me the way those other people did, I probably would have done something like that too. I'm not defending Michael's actions in any way, shape or form but perhaps both parties should try a different approach in the near future.

Hey, I like this site because I can actually interact with people on my intellectual level, to a greater degree, despite some of the immature, insecure, low self-esteem people on here.

quote:

Originally posted by IRONHORSE:

Nevertheless, Ricardo, let's talk, man to man, Maestro e Maestro--Okay, so you're a math instructor--I'm an art instructor--but we both recieved the same core education: Foundations of Education, Measurment and Assessment, Educational Research, Educational Psychology, etc. The point I'm making is, we are trained to approach situations like these an many others from a pedagogical point of view rather than as a regular person.

Actually, I've never had any of those courses. Like most university faculty in mathematics, I've never taken an education class of any sort. (This may indeed be unfortunate, but it is a reality in academics.) Everything that I know about teaching I learned on the job.

So far as I know, I would not be allowed by law to teach mathematics at either a elementary shcool or high school level. The one exception is a couple of times when I was working as an adjunct at a local community college, which offered an ocaisional course for advanced students at a high school (a statistics class and a logic class). Since I was really working for the community college, and not the high school, I was able to teach these classes in the high school without certification.

I also taught a calculus class once here at ISU over the summer for talented high school students as part of a special program for gifted Black students (mostly from Baton Rouge, Louisiana, if I recall correctly).

But for a typical mathematics course at high school level or below, I'm simply not qualified to teach it.

In fact, in my case, I don't even have an undergraduate degree, so I don't even have the standard undergrad education outside of mathematics that most faculty would have. I was fortunate to find the only grad school in the country that would accept somebody into their PhD program without an undergrad degree.

The only grad school in the country with low enough standards to accept me.

quote:

Originally posted by ricardomath:

quote:

Originally posted by IRONHORSE:

Nevertheless, Ricardo, let's talk, man to man, Maestro e Maestro--Okay, so you're a math instructor--I'm an art instructor--but we both recieved the same core education: Foundations of Education, Measurment and Assessment, Educational Research, Educational Psychology, etc. The point I'm making is, we are trained to approach situations like these an many others from a pedagogical point of view rather than as a regular person.

Actually, I've never had any of those courses. Like most university faculty in mathematics, I've never taken an education class of any sort. (This may indeed be unfortunate, but it is a reality in academics.) Everything that I know about teaching I learned on the job.

So far as I know, I would not be allowed by law to teach mathematics at either a elementary shcool or high school level. The one exception is a couple of times when I was working as an adjunct at a local community college, which offered an ocaisional course for advanced students at a high school (a statistics class and a logic class). Since I was really working for the community college, and not the high school, I was able to teach these classes in the high school without certification.

I also taught a calculus class once here at ISU over the summer for talented high school students as part of a special program for gifted Black students (mostly from Baton Rouge, Louisiana, if I recall correctly).

But for a typical mathematics course at high school level or below, I'm simply not qualified to teach it.

In fact, in my case, I don't even have an undergraduate degree, so I don't even have the standard undergrad education outside of mathematics that most faculty would have. I was fortunate to find the only grad school in the country that would accept somebody into their PhD program without an undergrad degree.

The only grad school in the country with low enough standards to accept me.

*Yep...my conversations in here have nothing to do with org behavior or technology management. I roll with the flow others dictate (like my Spurs) and play along accordingly.....so when I rebut what a person says based on facts and social research and they tell me to f-k off or reply with some BS that is insulting, then that is how we roll from now on....and when people start communicating with the level of respect and professionalism shown in a classroom...then we roll in that mannner....i'll be damned if I stay on a civil plane while others demean, degrade and insult others while ducking and dodging respectful, specific questions-fuck em.......

All this is rather funny coming from IronHorse.

quote:

Okay, Nmurinate, you want to play, you worthless, spineless, dickless, panty liner-wearing, sniveling, two-faced, talking out of both sides of your mouth, pseudo-intellectual, hard-headed, dim-witted, immature, shiftless, complacent, homosexual tendencies having, novelty store, Zulu warrior ass son of a bitch? Let's play.

Spare no syllables I guess... lol

That along with:
You sound just like the typical, want something for nothing, handout-taking, negro--How the fuck, you blockheaded, moronic, oblivious, imbecile...

you ignorant, 2 dollar ho... ya attention starved, sociopathic, bruised ego-having, cyber maggit.

you punk ass, flea market thug... Be a real nigga... you foolish, harebrained, cretinous adolescent minded, keyboard hugging nerd.

And, of course, the finest in delusions:

quote:

Nmaginate: "Yap, yap, yap, my ego is bruised and I can't stop falling...Yap, yap, yap."

"I'm resorting to throwing insults to make up for the fact that I don't have any ideas. I'm too busy sucking the dicks of dead black leaders...yap, yap, yap, yap....."

"I'm mad as hell because a newbie is smarter than me and doesn't want to be on my side..yap, yap, yap, yap...."

quote:

In fact, in my case, I don't even have an undergraduate degree, so I don't even have the standard undergrad education outside of mathematics that most faculty would have. I was fortunate to find the only grad school in the country that would accept somebody into their PhD program without an undergrad degree.

The only grad school in the country with low enough standards to accept me, by ricardomath

Well ricardomath,

You admit yourself that no recognized university would do this, yet you have found one university to do this. I'm willing to bet that the only university to do this, is one of our so-called prestigious Black colleges, or universities, or if not this that Caucasian institution of learning that has a double standard when dealing with Black students, meaning in every instance an instructor must meet the standards to teach Caucasian students, but anything goes in the selection process to teach Black students.

Be it that prestigious Black university, or that double standard Caucasian university, this is a real to life example of that Caucasian community passing on that misfit, underqualified, or unqualified individual, from their own community to the Black community.

....yep and if this happened at a Black prestigious university this is a prime example of that typical Black administrator, or a vivid example of that Black middleclass bending over backwards to serve others at the expense of the Black community.

....yep, and if this occurred at a Caucasian university, then Black students are being cheated, and Caucasians still win. Caucasians have made it possible to provide gainful employment for one of their own misfits at the expense of Black students. The Caucasian run university is lowering the standards just for Black students, namely to sidestep being held responsible to hire a Black qualified instructor to teach Black students. Must be nice to cheat the Black community on both ends, cheat Black students out of a mandated qualified instructor, and blatantly ignore qualified Black applicants for gainful employment to teach.

Rather than hiring a Black teacher, or other qualified individual from their own community who meets the standards, educational background, meaning credentials, etc., etc., they would rather reach back for a reject from the Caucasian community in that.......

"You have to realize that Lofton has a long history here, and everybody's interraction with him has pretty much fallen into a continuing pattern.

And that pattern has been a direct result of Lofton's actions here and elsewhere, and his posting style." by ricardomath

.....and ricardomath has the audacity to say this, and he is an imposter, a reject from his own community.

IRONHORSE, it is hoped that you look at the reality of it, and not the Hype.

...... Heck ricardomath even stated it himself! He must really believe that Black people must stupid, if he believes that every Black person is going to be that gullible! How insulting to the intelligence of Black people, and I'm not a university professor or anything close to it, and I can see this. It should be very easy for any university educated Black professional to see, that he is unqualified to teach any Black student , and that ricardomath needs to go back to his own community, to teach Caucasian students to see just how far he will get. If he is not good enough to teach Caucasian students then ricardomath is an insult to both Black students, and Black instructors alike!

.....they have chosen to hire ricardomath, which again is reason enough for me to act the way I do towards an individual such as ricardomath. Furthermore, being married to a Black woman although commendable, this is insufficient, and can not be used as the sole consideration to teach Black students. Teaching credentials are mandated by law. Marriage to a Black woman is not in the mix of requirements to teach anywhere, including any Black community!

.....and if this happened as a result of the action or response of any Black university administrator at a prestigious Black university or any Caucasian run university, then these very individuals have little cause call a Black conservative an "Uncle Tom", etc., etc., when you consider that that Black professional who is in a position of influence to call the shots, but who would rather pass up a qualified instructor from the Black community, to instead hire an underqualified, unqualified individual reject in a "ricardomath" from the Caucasian community.

The Caucasian community wouldn't have ricardomath who is also Caucasian teaching their students, which is good enough reason to reject a ricardomath from teaching any Black student.

Ricardomath may have duped Kevin41, Kweli4Real, etc., etc., into his being accepted with the status that goes along with the position, but a competent Black administrator would not have given preference to any "ricardomath" over any truly qualified Black instructor!

.....but mind you, in every instance a Black instructor would have to meet the standards, meaning having a credential, the educational background, etc., or make no mistake you can forget about ever being considered for the position sought, no ands, ifs, or buts! Should any instructor use fraud to make it appear that they possess a college degree, or use false pretenses for a credential, the imposter may face felony criminal indictment, and prison time.

....nothing surprises me as to the reality of it. Heck, if Black people will promote a misfit or reject from the Caucasian community to teach Black students, then this will also explain the nonsense to keep and promote a misfit in an "illegal immigrant" serving foreign interests at the expense of Compton or South Central Los Angeles no good Merv Dymally, no good "Brentwood" Burke, carpetbagging Martin Ludlow in elected office, praising poverty pimping ambulance chasing Reverend Jesse Jackson or Reverend Al Sharpton, paying tribute to ambulance chasing attorney Johnny Cochran, and/or paying tidings beyond belief to no good sacreligious Black Preachers. Apparantly, far to many Black people choose to kick themselves in the rear end. This is ignorance, stupidity, treason for lack of better words, and since Black people are doing this to themselves, as reality would have it, you sure can't blame Caucasians for the condition of the Black community!

"Nevertheless, Ricardo, let's talk, man to man, Maestro e Maestro--Okay, so you're a math instructor--I'm an art instructor--but we both recieved the same core education: Foundations of Education, Measurment and Assessment, Educational Research, Educational Psychology, etc. The point I'm making is, we are trained to approach situations like these an many others from a pedagogical point of view rather than as a regular person." by IRONHORSE

Well IRONHORSE,

"....and that rude comment he made in reference to your wife" by IRONHORSE

Contrary to what you have stated I have yet to disrespect ricardomath's wife. If there was any disrespect shown to ricardomath's wife, ricardomath brought this on himself by stating that she was an illegal immigrant. In addition, ricardomath has been very disrespectful to others, and in order to receive respect respect must first be shown or given.

Generally speaking, the average U.S. citizen is not going to show more respect for legal immigration over illegal immigration.

Ricardomath is not in the same league as you, be it teaching art, math, or any other subject that requires an instructor to be licensed, meet the requirements, to be credentialed.

....unlike you, IRONHORSE, an art instructor who has the credentials to be an art instructor.....ricardomath is an instructor in name only who does not have the first credential or the educational background to be placed on par with any instructor who holds the necessary credentials.

...I don't know how you feel about this IRONHORSE, but I would be very angry, and not remain silent about it if it ever came to pass that an unqualified Caucasian instructor is going to be selected over and above a qualified Black instructor at any prestigious Black university.

If this took place at any Caucasian run university then the fact that an unqualified, un-credentialed instructor holds the position to teach Black students, proves that the school has little or no respect for Black students or qualified Black instructors.

....just let a Black person, or otherwise misrepresent the reality of it to claim they have credentials to teach and you may end up in prison. At least ricardomath is truthful enough to admit that he is not credentialed. So far, from all appearances, ricardomath is not fraudulent.

Either way, ricardomath is not credentialed, thus he cannot hold tenure as a qualified instructor in any school environment, be it elementary, high school, or any school of hire learning!

If this took place at a prestigious Black university, this perhaps may explain why Black run institutions are considered substandard, or rated lower, as compared with other institutions who do not lower their requirements. Can't raise the bar on the quality of instruction, and the rating of a Black university when underqualified, or unqualified individuals are given preference over qualified instructors.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

black run institutions are considered substandard......wow

Wow! So I guess Howard University is now considered subpar, must come as a surprise to the white Ivy League schools that it completes aganist and beats in various academic competitions.

"On the other hand, for black students with strong academic backgrounds and composite S.A.T.s above 1000, there are simply no black colleges to match them with academically. Many such students-especially those who have grown tired of always being in a small minority in predominantly white schools-often want to believe that there are black colleges to match the Ivy League or other top-tier institutions. But the facts contradict this belief or wish. Every black institution in the United States has a S.A.T. level below the national average. Howard University has long been regarded as first among the black colleges and universities, but less than half the Howard faculty have Ph.D.s and less than half the Howard students have graduated 5 years after they enter." by Thomas Sowell

In many instances, the typical Black student with a much lower SAT score must be given a racial preference, or Affirmative Action benefits, to even be considered for admission to an Ivy League School, Stanford University, etc., etc.

Black students with high SAT scores are few and far between. Those with high SAT scores have a very good prospect of entering an Ivy League University, Stanford, UCLA, etc.

The majority who do not, are forced to attend a traditionally all Black University, and/or must attend a junior college, and then depending on the outcome, they can transfer to USC, Stanford, UCLA, etc., etc.

....more evidence to support the argument that the pool of Black students eligible for higher education would be very limited without the crutch of Affirmative Action, and the traditional predominately Black High Schools, colleges, and/or universities, are substandard or very limited, in terms of the curriculum being offered to enable Black students to compete at the same level at any mainstream higher institution of learning!

....The Final Call being yet one other source

Very few of the traditional Black colleges measure up!

"A study of the Berkeley student body found that those minority students admitted with higher qualifications graduated at a much higher rate than those admitted under "race-sensitive" standards." Race base standards, and Affirmative Action must end, because race base standards, and AA benefits hinder achievement and success.

...again be it Kevin41, jazzdog, or otherwise, it is not just me saying so! It is about time Black people start being on the level with each other, as it relates to being truthful. Playing the race card, being contrary, making excuses, attempting to belittle a Michael Lofton for saying so, and blaming Caucasians for our own failure, is not being truthful. As reality would have it, the traditional all Black university is substandard when compared to many other Caucasian run universities. With regard to any university professor, such as a Kevin41, who refuses to acknowledge the truth, prefers to play the race card, uses foul language when proven wrong, and/or continues to attempt to belittle a Michael Lofton for sharing information that is very real, you are compromising the very purpose of acquiring an education, and/or the learning process. Education is a continuous process to seek the truth, to question the "status quo", to improve upon ideas, methods, or solutions devised and/or proven by others.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

quote:

Originally posted by jazzdog:
Wow! So I guess Howard University is now considered subpar, must come as a surprise to the white Ivy League schools that it completes aganist and beats in various academic competitions.

Bro....I went to an HBCU and grad school was fun in comparison.....I'm glad to have been raised in a way and in a place where I have seen black people demonstrate academic, professional civic and any other form of excellence as well if not waaay better than anyone else ever could.....oh yeah...and i'm glad my grades were always higher than the white kids,SAT and anything else so if I grew up to hate blacks at least I most likely wouldn't have hated my damn self......and know that black people aren't inferior to a gotdamn thing...oh what a relief that is...not to hate what I see in the mirror in the morning.........

**It would be interesting to see the percentage of black kids from HBCU undergrad that complete grad school as opposed to black kids who did undergrad at a non-HBCU school......



High-Ranking Universities Posting Progress in Increasing Black First-Year Enrollments:

Each autumn for the past 12 years JBHE has surveyed the admissions offices of the nation's high-ranking universities to determine the number of black applicants, accepted black students, and the number of black first-year students who actually enroll at these institutions. Our database permits us to examine the enrollment trends to see which high-ranking universities are making the most progress in increasing the number of black students on campus.

The largest increase in both actual numbers and also in percentage terms occurred at Vanderbilt University in Nashville, Tennessee. Black first-year enrollments doubled during the period from 70 in 1994 to 140 in 2004. Rice University, where black enrollments have fluctuated widely in recent years, showed an increase of 82 percent in the 1994 to 2004 period.

Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh, an institution where a large segment of the student body is engaged in the study of the sciences, posted a healthy gain in black enrollments of 64.4 percent. But it must be pointed out that in 2004 blacks were still only 5 percent of the entering students at the university.

Duke University has steadily increased black enrollments in recent years. In 2004 Duke had the highest percentage of black freshmen of any of the nation's highest-ranked universities. Some 11.5 percent of all black freshmen at Duke this past academic year were blacks.

At Stanford University black enrollments increased nearly 22 percent in the 1994 to 2004 period. But in 2004 black first-year enrollments were down 31 percent from 2003. If we examined black first-year enrollments at Stanford in the 1994 to 2003 period, the university would have posted an overall gain of 78 percent.

quote:

Originally posted by jazzdog:
Wow! So I guess Howard University is now considered subpar, must come as a surprise to the white Ivy League schools that it completes aganist and beats in various academic competitions.

What is really f-ked up is that black institutions have accomplished more with less funding and would never be given the credit for it. I remember when the Texas Legislature had to give PVAMU hundreds of millions of back dollars from a Permanent University Fund (PUF) that Texas A&M had f-ked them out of for hundreds of years.....when things became even steven, they cancelled the fund rather than share 50/50.....and the sad part is.....all the fucking battles black people have to fight for equality, they still have to hear some no-help offering niggahs decry what they fuck they are trying to accomplsh....it is like a motherf-ker who does not vote talking schit about politics...i wish they'd just shut the f-k up.....really

and by the way....HBCU's have had a Rhodes Scholar or two come from their ranks....a step on the next level.....like PV getting PHD programs in engineering now...but I guess a motherf-cker who never reads a gotdamn thing wouldn't know such information........and just think all black people are some backwards azz inept motherf-kers.....

quote:

"and by the way....HBCU's have had a Rhodes Scholar or two come from their ranks....a step on the next level.....like PV getting PHD programs in engineering now...but I guess a motherf-cker who never reads a gotdamn thing wouldn't know such information........and just think all black people are some backwards azz inept motherf-kers....." by Kevin41

"What is really f-ked up is that black institutions have accomplished more with less funding and would never be given the credit for it. I remember when the Texas Legislature had to give PVAMU hundreds of millions of back dollars from a Permanent University Fund (PUF) that Texas A&M had f-ked them out of for hundreds of years.....when things became even steven, they cancelled the fund rather than share 50/50.....and the sad part is.....all the fucking battles black people have to fight for equality, they still have to hear some no-help offering niggahs decry what they fuck they are trying to accomplsh....it is like a motherf-ker who does not vote talking schit about politics...i wish they'd just shut the f-k up.....really" by Kevin41

.....some dissertation coming from a so-called university professor!

...same response, which is...

...again be it Kevin41, jazzdog, or otherwise, it is not just me saying so! It is about time Black people start being on the level with each other, as it relates to being truthful. Playing the race card, being contrary, making excuses, attempting to belittle a Michael Lofton for saying so, and blaming Caucasians for our own failure, is not being truthful. As reality would have it, the traditional all Black university is substandard when compared to many other Caucasian run universities. With regard to any university professor, such as a Kevin41, who refuses to acknowledge the truth, prefers to play the race card, uses foul language when proven wrong, and/or continues to attempt to belittle a Michael Lofton for sharing information that is very real, you are compromising the very purpose of acquiring an education, and/or the learning process. Education is a continuous process to seek the truth, to question the "status quo", to improve upon ideas, methods, or solutions devised and/or proven by others.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

**This is example of factual data, as opposed to bullschit rhetoric that has no basis for credibility...just shit people want to believe.....one of the racist and self-hating azz myths about affirmativve action is refuted here also......

Blacks at the Nation's Top-Ranked Business Schools: Enrollments Are Down But Graduation Rates Are Almost Perfect

Overall enrollments in the nation's business schools are down sharply. Black enrollments at many of the nation's top business schools have also declined. But there are notable exceptions. The good news is that almost all blacks who enroll in the nation's top business schools go on to graduate. This pretty much puts the lie to the current hypothesis that blacks at leading graduate schools are failing because they are mismatched with their white peers and that they would be better served enrolling in second- or third-tier schools.
In the late 1990s, a booming economy produced major increases in business school enrollments. Then the dot-com bubble burst. Corporate scandals at Enron and other firms took the luster off a career in business. The nation proceeded to drop into a recession. The economic damage was greatly compounded by the severe shock of the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.

As a result, enrollments at the nation's business schools have been in a tailspin for the past several years. The Graduate Management Admis-sion Council reports that 78 percent of its member schools showed a drop in applications in 2003, the second year of steep declines. "It was the toughest year that I've ever experienced in the recruitment of MBAs," Brian Lohr, senior associate director of admissions at the business school at the University of Notre Dame, told the Indianapolis Star.

For blacks there is a similar story. Blacks have experienced major declines in enrollments at some of the nation's leading business schools over the past several years. Once again, JBHE has surveyed the nation's 25 highest-ranked business schools to determine the racial makeup of their student bodies. Of the 28 highest-ranked business schools in the nation, nine schools declined to provide information on the racial makeup of their student bodies to the JBHE research department. Business and other graduate schools are sensitive about disclosing racial statistics. State-operated institutions are concerned that they will be subject to litigation if they are perceived as giving major racial preferences to blacks and other minorities. Private business schools worry that conservative alumni could reduce their contributions to their alma maters if they believe that blacks and other minorities are receiving admissions preferences. Also, some of the schools that did not respond to our survey are probably not proud of their records in providing access to business school education to African Americans.

Nineteen of the nation's highest-ranked business schools did provide data to JBHE. Of the reporting schools, Stanford University had the highest percentage of black enrollments. Blacks are 6.2 percent of the 754 students enrolled at the business school this year. The business school at Ohio State University ranks second with a student body that is 5.9 percent black.

Surprisingly, the Anderson School of Management at UCLA ranks a high third in our survey despite the fact that, due to state law, race cannot be taken into account during the admissions process. At its upstate rival, the Haas business school at the University of California at Berkeley, which also is prohibited from using race in its admissions decisions, blacks are only 1.4 percent of all students. Only the University of Texas has a lower percentage of black students among the top-ranked business schools. Here, too, until the current year, admissions at the University of Texas, were required to be strictly race neutral.

The black percentage of students enrolling at the nation's leading business schools generally comes in far below the percentage of black student enrollments at the nation's leading law and medical schools. In part this may be a reflection of the perception of limited opportunities for blacks in high-level corporate management. Despite some remarkable breakthroughs in recent years such as Richard Parsons at Time Warner, Stanley O'Neal at Merrill Lynch, and Kenneth Chenault at American Express, African Americans still hold a minuscule percentage of high-ranking corporate executive positions. Many high-achieving black college students see careers in law and medicine as paths they can take not only to achieve personal success but also to "make a difference" in one's contribution to society. But students in this group see a far more difficult road ahead in trying to crack the "old-boy" network in the business world that still rules much of the banking, venture capital, and business culture of corporate America.

Trends in Black Enrollments
at Leading Business Schools

In view of the impact of the economic downturn and bans on affirmative action admissions in some states, it is useful to compare this year's survey results to past JBHE surveys. This is a good measure of black progress in business school enrollments. Of the 14 top business schools for which we have data for both 1999 and 2005, we find that black enrollments increased at six schools and declined at eight schools. As stated earlier, we suspect that black enrollments also declined at most, if not all, of the top business schools that chose not to respond to our survey.

The largest percentage increase was at the School of Management at Yale University. There, black enrollments have almost doubled over the past six years, rising from 12 to 23. There have also been significant increases in black enrollments at the business schools at Ohio State, the University of North Carolina, Stanford University, and Dartmouth College.

Of the eight business schools that showed declines in black enrollments, the largest percentage drop was at the Haas School of Business at Berkeley. Black enrollments have dropped 50 percent from 14 in 1999 to 7 today. It is important to explain the reason for the long-term decline in black enrollments at the business school at Berkeley. Prior to 1996 the Haas school was permitted to take race into account as a positive factor in the admissions process. In 1994, 5 percent of the students at the Haas business school were black. Today blacks are only 1.4 percent of the students at the school.

Decreases in black enrollments greater than 30 percent also occurred in the MBA programs at the University of California at Los Angeles, the University of Texas, Indiana University, Purdue University, Columbia University, and the University of Michigan.

Racial Differences in Acceptance Rates
at Top Business Schools

In our survey JBHE also asked the deans of the leading business schools for information on the number of blacks who applied to their schools and the number of blacks who were accepted. We also asked the deans to supply us with admissions data for all applicants regardless of race. Thirteen of the nation's leading business schools supplied admissions data.

The Kenan-Flagler School of Business at the University of North Carolina had the highest black student acceptance rate of any of the business schools responding to our survey. Nearly 59 percent of all black applicants to the school were accepted. At least one half of all black applicants were accepted for admission at the business schools at Ohio State University and the University of Washington.

The lowest black student acceptance rate was at the highly regarded Tuck School of Business at Dartmouth College. There, only 27, or 18.4 percent, of the 147 black applicants were accepted for admission.

At eight of the 13 business schools in our survey the acceptance rate for black students was higher than the overall acceptance rate. In most cases the racial differences were very small.

Black Student Graduation Rates

On average, black students routinely score significantly lower than white students on the Graduate Management Admission Test. Therefore, it is correctly assumed by many observers that in order to diversify their student bodies, many of the nation's leading business schools give admissions preferences to black applicants. Many conservative scholars believe that these black students would be better off enrolling at second- or third-tier predominantly white business schools or at the many MBA programs at historically black universities. The reasoning is that black students would be better able to compete with their fellow students at these institutions and go on to complete their MBAs.

But data collected by JBHE shows that this reasoning is completely unsound. Blacks admitted to the nation's leading business schools graduate at very high rates, in many cases equal to or surpassing the rate of their white peers. Eighteen of the nation's highest-ranked business schools supplied graduation rate data to the JBHE research department. Of these 18 leading business schools, 13 reported a black student graduation rate of 100 percent. At all but one school the black graduation rate was 92 percent or higher. At eight of the 18 schools in our survey the black student graduation rate was higher than the rate for white students.

Black Faculty at the Nation's Leading Business Schools

Before we conclude our analysis of blacks at the nation's leading business schools, it is important to examine the number of blacks who hold teaching positions at these institutions. There are 11 black faculty members at the business school at the University of Texas. Stanford has six black faculty members. There are five black business school professors at Georgetown University and at the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania.

There are no black faculty members at the business school at the University of California at Berkeley. There is only one black faculty member each at the business schools at the University of Minnesota, the University of Southern California, and the University of California at Los Angeles.

The University of Texas has the highest percentage of black faculty among the leading business schools at 6.8 percent. Therefore, among the top business schools, Texas has the highest percentage of black faculty members but the lowest percentage of black students.

Georgetown and Stanford are the only other business schools that responded to our survey at which blacks make up at least 5 percent of the total faculty. At Dartmouth and the University of Michigan blacks are at least 4 percent of the faculty. Thirteen of the highest-ranked business schools have a black percentage of their total faculty that stands at less than 3 percent.

There are 22 black faculty members at these 19 business schools who hold tenure. This is an average of slightly over one black tenured business school professor per school.

There are five blacks with tenure at the University of Texas. All three black faculty at the University of Washington business school hold tenure. Three of the five black faculty at the Wharton School are tenured. Seven of the 19 business schools that responded to our survey have no black tenured faculty. They are the business schools at Columbia, MIT, Stanford, the University of Minnesota, the University of California at Berkeley, the University of Southern California, and Yale.

More Features

** I guess i'll just have to prove through factual means that black people are not just some stupid azz down-and-out hopeless fools who blame everything on racism that does not exist

African-American College Enrollment Rates Are on the Rise

In the 16-year period from 1982 to 1998 the percentage of black high school graduates who went on to college was generally on the increase. Then in the late 1990s and in the first two years of the new millennium, the college enrollment rates for blacks decreased sharply. At the same time a recession gripped the U.S. economy.

Now new government data shows that since 2001 a greater percentage of black high school graduates are going on to college.


In 1965 only about one third of all African Americans who graduated from high school went on to college. At that time about one half of all white high school graduates were enrolling in college. This large 10 to 15 percentage point gap in the so-called college participation rate held firm for the next several years.

Then a remarkable thing happened. By 1976 the percentage of black high school graduates who went on to college had become al-most the same percentage as white high school graduates. At that time two societal forces combined that appear to have had a major impact in creating the near equal college participation rates.

First, in the early 1970s colleges and universities across the United States instituted affirmative action admissions programs and actively recruited black students to come to their campuses. Prior to the late 1960s very few black students enrolled at predominantly white colleges and universities. This new drive by the white institutions to attract black students created greatly expanded opportunities for the higher education of blacks.

Equally important, if not more critical in increasing the black student college participation rate, was the introduction in 1973 of the federal Pell Grant program. This new federal financial aid program, named after Rhode Island Senator Claiborne Pell, provided most, if not all, the money required for low-income students to attend a four-year state university. The availability of federal financial aid for low-income students, a disproportionate percentage of whom were black, permitted large numbers of black students, who previously would have never thought of going to college, to enroll in higher education.

The 1976 near-parity in college participation rates be-tween whites and blacks was short-lived. The late 1970s and early 1980s were a period when the United States was in a severe economic crisis. Hyperinflation, double-digit interest rates, long lines at gas stations, and high unemployment rates put much pressure on budgets and on the ability of black students to afford higher education. With rampant inflation, college tuition costs soared. Pell Grant awards fell far short of keeping pace. As a result, the black student college participation rate dropped to 35.8 percent in 1982, very close to the level that existed at the time of the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

Whites, a large majority of whom did not depend on federal financial aid for higher education, continued to go to college at a high rate. The racial gap in college participation, nearly equal in 1976, reached 17 percentage points by 1982.

Thereafter, the U.S. economy began an unprecedented long-term expansion. Accordingly, the college participation for both blacks and whites began to increase. By 1998 the black student college participation rate had climbed to nearly 62 percent. This was about seven percentage points below the college participation rate for white high school graduates.

Over the next several years the economy declined sharply when the famed dot-com bubble burst. The black student college participation rate dropped to 54 percent in 2001. At the same time the racial gap in college participation rates increased to 10 percentage points.

In Recent Years the Racial Gap Has Narrowed

Now the latest data shows that not only is the black student college enrollment rate on the rise, but the racial gap in enrollments is smaller. In 2003, 58.3 percent of all black high school graduates enrolled in college within one year. For whites, the college participation rate was 66.1 percent. Thus, the racial gap is less than 8 percentage points. Had the Bush administration increased the maximum Pell Grant award to keep pace with rising college costs, the racial gap in college participation rates would probably have been completely eliminated.

More News & Views

"On the other hand, for black students with strong academic backgrounds and composite S.A.T.s above 1000, there are simply no black colleges to match them with academically. Many such students-especially those who have grown tired of always being in a small minority in predominantly white schools-often want to believe that there are black colleges to match the Ivy League or other top-tier institutions. But the facts contradict this belief or wish. Every black institution in the United States has a S.A.T. level below the national average. Howard University has long been regarded as first among the black colleges and universities, but less than half the Howard faculty have Ph.D.s and less than half the Howard students have graduated 5 years after they enter." by Thomas Sowell

....and Thomas Sowell is both a professor and an authority on the subject.

"A study of the Berkeley student body found that those minority students admitted with higher qualifications graduated at a much higher rate than those admitted under "race-sensitive" standards." Race base standards, and Affirmative Action must end, because race base standards, and AA benefits hinder achievement and success.

The Text of Proposition 209, which has made it illegal to promote Affirmative Action in California!

.....and in California, Affirmative Action has been ruled un-Constitutional!

I woner what has more credibility, a leading academic research journal that is non-partisan and has data compiled from thousands of reputable sources over thirty and forty year spans with thousands of credible reserachers or some self-hating white azz kissing black minstrel man buffoon with some racist white opinions? Now there is a contest....man i see why some people are academically inclined and others are not.....they just want to be ignorant, self-hating and dumb so they can make excuses for themselves being the way they are their whole lives....the very thing they accuse others of.......smply amazing

quote:

I woner what has more credibility, a leading academic research journal that is non-partisan and has data compiled from thousands of reputable sources over thirty and forty year spans with thousands of credible reserachers or some self-hating white azz kissing black minstrel man buffoon with some racist white opinions? Now there is a contest....man i see why some people are academically inclined and others are not.....they just want to be ignorant, self-hating and dumb so they can make excuses for themselves being the way they are their whole lives....the very thing they accuse others of.......smply amazing" by Kevin41

"On the other hand, for black students with strong academic backgrounds and composite S.A.T.s above 1000, there are simply no black colleges to match them with academically. Many such students-especially those who have grown tired of always being in a small minority in predominantly white schools-often want to believe that there are black colleges to match the Ivy League or other top-tier institutions. But the facts contradict this belief or wish. Every black institution in the United States has a S.A.T. level below the national average. Howard University has long been regarded as first among the black colleges and universities, but less than half the Howard faculty have Ph.D.s and less than half the Howard students have graduated 5 years after they enter." by Thomas Sowell

....and Thomas Sowell is both a professor and an authority on the subject.

"A study of the Berkeley student body found that those minority students admitted with higher qualifications graduated at a much higher rate than those admitted under "race-sensitive" standards." Race base standards, and Affirmative Action must end, because race base standards, and AA benefits hinder achievement and success.

The Text of Proposition 209, which has made it illegal to promote Affirmative Action in California!

.....and in California, Affirmative Action has been ruled un-Constitutional!

The leading academic research journal does not set the policy for the people in California. California state law determines the policy to be followed, and with respect to banning AA benefits the people have ruled!

....and no amount of name calling, on the part of any Kevin41, or otherwise is going to revoke or ban an initiative that the majority of the people of the State of California have made law.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

quote:

Nineteen of the nation's highest-ranked business schools did provide data to JBHE. Of the reporting schools, Stanford University had the highest percentage of black enrollments. Blacks are 6.2 percent of the 754 students enrolled at the business school this year. The business school at Ohio State University ranks second with a student body that is 5.9 percent black.

Surprisingly, the Anderson School of Management at UCLA ranks a high third in our survey despite the fact that, due to state law, race cannot be taken into account during the admissions process. At its upstate rival, the Haas business school at the University of California at Berkeley, which also is prohibited from using race in its admissions decisions, blacks are only 1.4 percent of all students. Only the University of Texas has a lower percentage of black students among the top-ranked business schools. Here, too, until the current year, admissions at the University of Texas, were required to be strictly race neutral.

The black percentage of students enrolling at the nation's leading business schools generally comes in far below the percentage of black student enrollments at the nation's leading law and medical schools. In part this may be a reflection of the perception of limited opportunities for blacks in high-level corporate management.

**Man, I have got to spend my time teaching more online MBA courses.....and not separate myself from black people who are uneducated.....but black people who are ignorant of the facts and want to remain that way and are happy doing so.....they are a cancer to the black race and want to be who they are........

I understand the kind of person that would celebrate the passing of laws that have worked to limit the educational and professional opportunities of blacks and relegate more of us to poverty....I am a high acheiving black who loves black people and want all of us to succeed that want to....the people who have hatred for blacks and love to see us fail because of their own personal shortcomings have no place in my life and could never serve no purpose to me......and I see them for who they are......and now I understand why some of us have to leave others behind...their menatality is too self-defeating to be of any constructive use to the black race.....period....they are just people living off of the efforts of others but are too lazy, sorry and black-hating to ever do the same themselves.....with that in mind...i must move on and away.....and up...without them.......

"Man, I have got to spend my time teaching more online MBA courses.....and not separate myself from black people who are uneducated.....but black people who are ignorant of the facts and want to remain that way and are happy doing so.....they are a cancer to the black race and want to be who they are........" by Kevin41

....to which going by this statement Professor Thomas Sowell is ignorant of the facts, uneducated, and a cancer to the Black race!

"Understand the kind of person that would celebrate the passing of laws that have worked to limit the educational and professional opportunities of blacks and relegate more of us to poverty....I am a high acheiving black who loves black people and want all of us to succeed that want to....the people who have hatred for blacks and love to see us fail because of their own personal shortcomings have no place in my life and could never serve no purpose to me......and I see them for who they are......and now I understand why some of us have to leave others behind...their menatality is too self-defeating to be of any constructive use to the black race.....period....they are just people living off of the efforts of others but are too lazy, sorry and black-hating to ever do the same themselves.....with that in mind...i must move on and away.....and up...without them......." by Kevin41

...celebrating the passing of Proposition 209 is not the issue. The issue is that this is the law, and every citizen of the State of California is mandated by law to respect this law!

"On the other hand, for black students with strong academic backgrounds and composite S.A.T.s above 1000, there are simply no black colleges to match them with academically. Many such students-especially those who have grown tired of always being in a small minority in predominantly white schools-often want to believe that there are black colleges to match the Ivy League or other top-tier institutions. But the facts contradict this belief or wish. Every black institution in the United States has a S.A.T. level below the national average. Howard University has long been regarded as first among the black colleges and universities, but less than half the Howard faculty have Ph.D.s and less than half the Howard students have graduated 5 years after they enter." by Thomas Sowell

and by the way....i taught a masters course at a private white school when I had my masters only....and this school....with its 700.00/unit tuition...I Guess is sorry just like Howard...especially since one of my degrees (elec. engr) came from a black school......I guess I caught dem gud white folk slipping and took advantage........

and by the way.....what dumb azz black lackeys fail to have explained to them by the white folks that they listen to like Jesus....is that black students have poorer preparation in K-12 levels that disappear more after each year of college completed...and if you look at the highest levels of education....that graduation rates are the same for blacks and whites....at high ranked schools and otherwise....but I guess a motherfucker preoccupied with clebrating everything they see wrong with blacks would never take the time to even open their narrow azz house slave mind long enough to realize as much.....better them than me......they are the tormented one, not I.......

quote:

Originally posted by Kevin41:
and by the way.....what dumb azz black lackeys fail to have explained to them by the white folks that they listen to like Jesus....is that black students have poorer preparation in K-12 levels that disappear more after each year of college completed...and if you look at the highest levels of education....that graduation rates are the same for blacks and whites....at high ranked schools and otherwise....but I guess a motherfucker preoccupied with clebrating everything they see wrong with blacks would never take the time to even open their narrow azz house slave mind long enough to realize as much.....better them than me......they are the tormented one, not I.......

Affirmative Action Around the World! ......to which be it Affirmative Action Around the World, or within the U.S., Affirmative Action has yet to benefit the rank and file, the underclass, the truly oppressed, the masses, etc., etc.

.....Ward Connerly the author of Proposition 209, and Dr. Thomas Sowell sure look Black to me, which rebutts any comment to the effect, "what dumb azz black lackeys fail to have explained to them by the white folks that they listen to like Jesus" by Kevin41

...and the only true dumb a%% lackeys, or narrow a%% house slave mind who truly exist, are our own inept treasonous no good elected officials, snake oil poverty pimping no good Black preachers, and the Black middleclass who protect, defend, and serve this misfit set!

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

Blacks who stand for anything that impedes the progress of other blacks in any form or fashion should be treated as a separate and apart group of people that should be allowed to be all to themselves.....I do not have anything to say to them because we have nothing in common and they are of no use in a collective effort to move a progressiva black agenda forward....I am fine to associate myself with like-minded black people who do not run counter to black self-interest......but from the violent thug in the neighborhood who terrorizes the citizens and run down the property value to the black conservatives who work to dismantle some of the mechanisims that have systematically delivered millions of blacks from poverty...I now really see clearly who I need to steer clear of and have no affiliations with whatsoever.....I have always tried to be down with all black people just because they were black....I will still try to operate as such, but it will take much less time to realize which black people I have to let go of.....because I already have in some instances.....they really only deserve each other...and no positive upstanding black person....not even as an associate........

quote:

Originally posted by Kevin41:
Blacks who stand for anything that impedes the progress of other blacks in any form or fashion should be treated as a separate and apart group of people that should be allowed to be all to themselves.....I do not have anything to say to them because we have nothing in common and they are of no use in a collective effort to move a progressiva black agenda forward....I am fine to associate myself with like-minded black people who do not run counter to black self-interest......but from the violent thug in the neighborhood who terrorizes the citizens and run down the property value to the black conservatives who work to dismantle some of the mechanisims that have systematically delivered millions of blacks from poverty...I now really see clearly who I need to steer clear of and have no affiliations with whatsoever.....I have always tried to be down with all black people just because they were black....I will still try to operate as such, but it will take much less time to realize which black people I have to let go of.....because I already have in some instances.....they really only deserve each other...and no positive upstanding black person....not even as an associate........

Affirmative Action Around the World! ...AA has yet to help the masses or the millions in the underserved, the indigent, and/or the unrepresented to move up from poverty.

...and the failure on the part of our own inept treasonous no good elected officials, snake oil poverty pimping no good Black preachers, and the Black middleclass who protect, defend, and serve this misfit set, insure Black poverty, so much so, that ecomomic conditions within the inner-city are even worse today!

Since this is the reality of it, it would behoove the rank and file to rid themselve of this sleaze, that is if the intention is to move ahead, in their quest to provide for the best interest of the future posterity of all Black people!

....and it is useless to blame the CIA, the Mexican Mafia, the Crips, or the Bloods, for the failure to use common sense and/or show respect for yourself!

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

* a research based conclusion.....for law schools alone.....I guess the bottom line is that any black who works against the progress of other blacks is not thinking logically as a black person....therefore thinking illogical....along with the illogical arguments they present....which makes it easy to conclude that an ECONOMICS professor is not necessarily an authority on affirmative action..just like Condi as a Russian expert does not make her civil rights view necessarily progressive in nature......and that is the beauty of education.....the things people do and say to veil racism or uncle tomism can easliy be dissected to show their sorry azzes for who they really are......

One of the arguments used by opponents of affirmative action in college and graduate school admissions is that institutions of higher education are doing black students a big disfavor by admitting them to colleges and graduate schools where it is assumed they cannot compete. This contention goes on to say that black students who are admitted to top-tier institutions would be far better off at lower-ranked schools where they would be better able to take the academic heat and therefore have a better chance of completing their degree program. Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams, Stephan and Abigail Thernstrom, and a number of other scholars have been strong proponents of this view.

But new JBHE research undercuts this argument. Our research shows that a vast majority of black students at the nation's top law schools were admitted under racial preferences. Yet our calculations also show that 90 percent or more of these affirmative action admits go on to graduate. There is an almost negligible dropout rate.

There are currently about 1,650 black students enrolled at the nation's 25 highest-ranked law schools. It is nearly certain that 80 percent or more of these black students were admitted under racial preferences.

How do we know this? Data obtained by JBHE from the Law School Admission Council shows that less than one percent of test takers who score 165 or above on the Law School Admission Test are black. (A score of 165 on the LSAT is the median score for students admitted to the nation's top-tier law schools.) Therefore, if the nation's highest-ranked law schools were to draw their students only from this 165 or better scoring group, blacks today would make up less than one percent of the students at these schools. Yet blacks, in fact, make up about 7 percent of the student bodies at the nation's leading law schools. Thus we can conclude that, almost certainly, 80 percent or more of the black students being admitted to the nation's leading law schools are admitted under affirmative action policies.

Yet these large numbers of black students admitted to top law schools under race-sensitive affirmative action are doing remarkably well. Using data on the number of black students entering law school and the number of degrees awarded to blacks three years later, JBHE has calculated the graduation rate for black students entering the nation's 26 highest-ranked law schools. We found that at all 26 high-ranking law schools the black student graduation rate was at least 84 percent. At 21 of these 26 schools the black student graduation rate was higher than 90 percent. In many cases the black graduation rate is close to 100 percent. In fact, at these top law schools the black student graduation rates in almost all cases are very close to the graduation rates of white students at these schools.

JBHE sent its calculations to the deans at all 26 of the leading law schools asking them to comment on our calculations. Most responded that our calculations were right on the money. None notified us that our calculations were incorrect. Kent Syverud, dean of the Vanderbilt University School of Law, confirmed our estimate of a graduation rate for black law students at 96.9 percent. Kathleen Sullivan, dean at Stanford Law School, stated that the black graduation rate at Stanford was 97.7 percent, a figure that was even higher than we had estimated. The one black student who did not complete the degree program because of a family emergency is now back in school. "Our record is, in fact, pretty much perfect," Dean Sullivan told JBHE.

Resegregating Our Nation's Leadership

The leadership echelons of the legal profession are dominated by graduates of the top 20 or so elite law schools. Ending affirmative action at elite law schools would have profound long-range consequences for America. Take, for example, federal appellate and Supreme Court law clerks, often the professors, judges, and law firm partners of tomorrow. Over half of these prestigious clerkships in 2002 went to graduates of the top 13 schools, less than half went to graduates of the other 170 ABA law schools. Likewise, a majority of all current African-American law professors graduated from the top 10 or so law schools. David Wilkins and Mitu Gulati also found that 77 percent of African-American partners in major corporate law firms went to elite schools, 47 percent from Yale and Harvard alone.

In Grutter, the Supreme Court was wisely persuaded by similar statistics when it declared, "In order to cultivate a set of leaders with legitimacy in the eyes of the citizenry, it is necessary that the path to leadership be visibly open to talented and qualified individuals of every race and ethnicity."

According to U.S. Census Bureau statistics, in 1970 there were only 3,845 African-American lawyers in the U.S. By 2000 there were over 39,000 black lawyers and judges in the U.S. "” a tenfold increase and a sea change in American society that simply would not have been possible without affirmative action.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael:

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In fact, in my case, I don't even have an undergraduate degree, so I don't even have the standard undergrad education outside of mathematics that most faculty would have. I was fortunate to find the only grad school in the country that would accept somebody into their PhD program without an undergrad degree.

The only grad school in the country with low enough standards to accept me, by ricardomath

Well ricardomath,

You admit yourself that no recognized university would do this,...

Ummm...no I didn't, Lofton. But don't let that stop you from displaying your idiocy by making up such a claim.

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...yet you have found one university to do this.

I'm willing to bet that the only university to do this, is one of our so-called prestigious Black colleges, or universities,...

I don't doubt that you'd be willing to bet that. Just like you'd be willing to bet that Merv Dymally is an illegal immigrant. But that's just because you are an idiot.

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or if not this that Caucasian institution of learning that has a double standard when dealing with Black students, meaning in every instance an instructor must meet the standards to teach Caucasian students, but anything goes in the selection process to teach Black students.

Ummmm...we don't segregate our classes here. Black and white students are in the same classes, and have the same teachers. You are an idiot.

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Be it that prestigious Black university, or that double standard Caucasian university, this is a real to life example of that Caucasian community passing on that misfit, underqualified, or unqualified individual, from their own community to the Black community.

In what way am I unqualified, Lofton? And in what way have I been "passed off to the Black community"? I didn't think it possible, Lofton, but your posts are actually becoming more bizarre and incoherient every day. You are an idiot.

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....yep and if this happened at a Black prestigious university this is a prime example of that typical Black administrator, or a vivid example of that Black middleclass bending over backwards to serve others at the expense of the Black community.

....yep, and if this occurred at a Caucasian university, then Black students are being cheated, and Caucasians still win. Caucasians have made it possible to provide gainful employment for one of their own misfits at the expense of Black students. The Caucasian run university is lowering the standards just for Black students, namely to sidestep being held responsible to hire a Black qualified instructor to teach Black students. Must be nice to cheat the Black community on both ends, cheat Black students out of a mandated qualified instructor, and blatantly ignore qualified Black applicants for gainful employment to teach.

Rather than hiring a Black teacher, or other qualified individual from their own community who meets the standards, educational background, meaning credentials, etc., etc., they would rather reach back for a reject from the Caucasian community in that.......

"You have to realize that Lofton has a long history here, and everybody's interraction with him has pretty much fallen into a continuing pattern.

And that pattern has been a direct result of Lofton's actions here and elsewhere, and his posting style." by ricardomath

.....and ricardomath has the audacity to say this, and he is an imposter, a reject from his own community.

IRONHORSE, it is hoped that you look at the reality of it, and not the Hype.

...... Heck ricardomath even stated it himself! He must really believe that Black people must stupid, if he believes that every Black person is going to be that gullible! How insulting to the intelligence of Black people, and I'm not a university professor or anything close to it, and I can see this. It should be very easy for any university educated Black professional to see, that he is unqualified to teach any Black student , and that ricardomath needs to go back to his own community, to teach Caucasian students to see just how far he will get. If he is not good enough to teach Caucasian students then ricardomath is an insult to both Black students, and Black instructors alike!

.....they have chosen to hire ricardomath, which again is reason enough for me to act the way I do towards an individual such as ricardomath.

What a bizarre rant. What makes you think that you are qualified to judge my qualifications, Lofton? You are an idiot.

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Furthermore, being married to a Black woman although commendable, ...

Why is being married to a Black woman "comendable"? You are an idiot.

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...this is insufficient, and can not be used as the sole consideration to teach Black students. Teaching credentials are mandated by law.

Teaching certification has absolutely nothing to do with Universities, Lofton. It's for high schools, middle schools, and elementary schools. You are an idiot.

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Marriage to a Black woman is not in the mix of requirements to teach anywhere, including any Black community!

Who ever said that it was? You are an idiot.

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.....and if this happened as a result of the action or response of any Black university administrator at a prestigious Black university or any Caucasian run university, then these very individuals have little cause call a Black conservative an "Uncle Tom", etc., etc., when you consider that that Black professional who is in a position of influence to call the shots, but who would rather pass up a qualified instructor from the Black community, to instead hire an underqualified, unqualified individual reject in a "ricardomath" from the Caucasian community.

The Caucasian community wouldn't have ricardomath who is also Caucasian teaching their students, which is good enough reason to reject a ricardomath from teaching any Black student.

Ricardomath may have duped Kevin41, Kweli4Real, etc., etc., into his being accepted with the status that goes along with the position, but a competent Black administrator would not have given preference to any "ricardomath" over any truly qualified Black instructor!

.......but mind you, in every instance a Black instructor would have to meet the standards, meaning having a credential, the educational background, etc., or make no mistake you can forget about ever being considered for the position sought, no ands, ifs, or buts! Should any instructor use fraud to make it appear that they possess a college degree, or use false pretenses for a credential, the imposter may face felony criminal indictment, and prison time.

In what way are you claiming that I have used "fraud", Lofton? You are an idiot.

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....nothing surprises me as to the reality of it. Heck, if Black people will promote a misfit or reject from the Caucasian community to teach Black students, then this will also explain the nonsense to keep and promote a misfit in an "illegal immigrant" serving foreign interests at the expense of Compton or South Central Los Angeles no good Merv Dymally, no good "Brentwood" Burke, carpetbagging Martin Ludlow in elected office, praising poverty pimping ambulance chasing Reverend Jesse Jackson or Reverend Al Sharpton, paying tribute to ambulance chasing attorney Johnny Cochran, and/or paying tidings beyond belief to no good sacreligious Black Preachers. Apparantly, far to many Black people choose to kick themselves in the rear end. This is ignorance, stupidity, treason for lack of better words, and since Black people are doing this to themselves, as reality would have it, you sure can't blame Caucasians for the condition of the Black community!

Well, at least we're back on familiar ground, Lofton. That no good illegal immigrant Merv Dymally and Jack Boot Poverty Pimping Black Prechers. You are an idiot.

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"Nevertheless, Ricardo, let's talk, man to man, Maestro e Maestro--Okay, so you're a math instructor--I'm an art instructor--but we both recieved the same core education: Foundations of Education, Measurment and Assessment, Educational Research, Educational Psychology, etc. The point I'm making is, we are trained to approach situations like these an many others from a pedagogical point of view rather than as a regular person." by IRONHORSE

Well IRONHORSE,

"....and that rude comment he made in reference to your wife" by IRONHORSE

Contrary to what you have stated I have yet to disrespect ricardomath's wife. If there was any disrespect shown to ricardomath's wife, ricardomath brought this on himself by stating that she was an illegal immigrant. In addition, ricardomath has been very disrespectful to others, and in order to receive respect respect must first be shown or given.

Generally speaking, the average U.S. citizen is not going to show more respect for legal immigration over illegal immigration.

Nobody forces you to disrespect anybody. Take some responsibility for your own actions, Lofton. You are an idiot.

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Ricardomath is not in the same league as you, be it teaching art, math, or any other subject that requires an instructor to be licensed, meet the requirements, to be credentialed.

No license is required to teach mathematics at a university, Lofton. You are an idiot.

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....unlike you, IRONHORSE, an art instructor who has the credentials to be an art instructor.....ricardomath is an instructor in name only who does not have the first credential or the educational background to be placed on par with any instructor who holds the necessary credentials.

...I don't know how you feel about this IRONHORSE, but I would be very angry, and not remain silent about it if it ever came to pass that an unqualified Caucasian instructor is going to be selected over and above a qualified Black instructor at any prestigious Black university.

You are not qualified to make judgements on my qualifications or lack thereof, Lofton. You are an idiot.

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If this took place at any Caucasian run university then the fact that an unqualified, un-credentialed instructor holds the position to teach Black students, proves that the school has little or no respect for Black students or qualified Black instructors.

....just let a Black person, or otherwise misrepresent the reality of it to claim they have credentials to teach and you may end up in prison.

When have I ever claimed to have any credentials that I don't actually have, Lofton? You are an idiot.

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At least ricardomath is truthful enough to admit that he is not credentialed.

I have a PhD in mathematics, Lofton. What more credentials are needed to be on the mathematics faculty of a university? You are an idiot.

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So far, from all appearances, ricardomath is not fraudulent.

This is the only truthful statement that you have made in this entire post. But you are still an idiot.

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Either way, ricardomath is not credentialed, thus he cannot hold tenure as a qualified instructor in any school environment, be it elementary, high school, or any school of hire learning!

You are correct that I can not teach in an elementary school, middle school, or high school.

But, of course, that's not my job. I'm on the mathematics faculty at Iowa State University, which is a university. You are an idiot.

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If this took place at a prestigious Black university, this perhaps may explain why Black run institutions are considered substandard, or rated lower, as compared with other institutions who do not lower their requirements. Can't raise the bar on the quality of instruction, and the rating of a Black university when underqualified, or unqualified individuals are given preference over qualified instructors.

Looks like Kevin took care of this one, Lofton. You are an idiot.

ricardo,

I have always realized that it is normal for others to try and discredit the credentials of those they have not worked as hard as to get theirs.....so that is why when someone refers to me as a so-called anything, it implies that it is not true and that I am just saying so.....but as long as the title and the pay commensurate, who gives a flying f-ck what the next fool thinks of me....I have never had a problem with being credible amongst my peers...as a student or anything else......so I find it all quite humorous.....

Well "Sir Buckwheat",

More thoughts from Buckwheat! ...and this is from the thoughts of a so-called university professor with a PHD in mathematics. Gives me yet more ammunition as to why ricardomath is unfit to teach Black students!

....and in order to be respected you must first show respect!

...and it sure feels good to know that every black person on this board is not a friend of ricardomath!

....Seems to have an obsession with using my name to start a post!

I see no reason to show any respect for Buckwheat!

.....again I have yet to show disrespect for your wife!

Since you have shown gross disrespect for me, as well as other individuals, you will receive the same degree of disrespect!

...and ricardomath since you are not a resident nor are you subjected to the whims of that no good elected leadership in an "illegal immigrant" Merv Dymally, Brentwood Burke, etc., your input is meaningless!

"Oh, I'm way beyond taking anything that Lofton says seriously." by ricardomath

....this is reason enough, to take you serious enough, to make the statements that I have made about you, statements such as.....

.....as for ricardomath, you are not a part of this equation, a conflict of interest exists between you, and the reality of life as it pertains to the Black community, and again you have no connection to the many realities of being Black in the United States of America.

"Actually, I've never had any of those courses. Like most university faculty in mathematics, I've never taken an education class of any sort. (This may indeed be unfortunate, but it is a reality in academics.) Everything that I know about teaching I learned on the job.

So far as I know, I would not be allowed by law to teach mathematics at either a elementary shcool or high school level. The one exception is a couple of times when I was working as an adjunct at a local community college, which offered an ocaisional course for advanced students at a high school (a statistics class and a logic class). Since I was really working for the community college, and not the high school, I was able to teach these classes in the high school without certification.

I also taught a calculus class once here at ISU over the summer for talented high school students as part of a special program for gifted Black students (mostly from Baton Rouge, Louisiana, if I recall correctly).

But for a typical mathematics course at high school level or below, I'm simply not qualified to teach it.

In fact, in my case, I don't even have an undergraduate degree, so I don't even have the standard undergrad education outside of mathematics that most faculty would have. I was fortunate to find the only grad school in the country that would accept somebody into their PhD program without an undergrad degree." by ricardomath

If you are not good enough to teach Caucasian students at the high school level, junior high school level, because you lack the credentials to teach, and you have been rejected from so many PHD programs at the university level as it relates to your own community because you lack an undergraduate degree, you are not worth the time of day to instruct Black students, be it junior high school, high school, the junior college level, or the university level!

.....unless given special treatment, slim chance exists that any qualified instructor can acquire a PHD in any subject, without going through the normal channels, meaning undergrad degree, Masters Degree, and finally a PHD.

Furthermore I can think of nothing but praise for you, and you alone!

...to which you are still a member of that reject from your own community club!

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

well ricardo,

You can go back and forth....but being a so-called anything by someone who has not strived half as hard as I have in life is just a waste of my time...it is like the poor man outside of the rich man's gated community complaining about the rich man's money....do you rhink the rich ma really gives a fuck? I doubt it...and trying to be factual and place documentation that is the result of real research in front of some ignorant azz, urban-affliced, opinionated fools is a waste of time....and any motherfucker who chooses to try and besmirch what the f-k I worked hard and legitimately for can kiss my black azz....because if their sorry azzes had to stand in my shoes and face the hostility that I have had to in the past....they would cower and return their underacheiver azzes to the comfort of their f-ked up surroundings where they could feel some self-worth relatively speaking.........Trying to reach tormented fools through intellectual means is a waste......but I know when I post factual data from academic resources that there will be no type of sensible rebuttal....it is how the racist white conservative decrys. And the concept of an electrician telling someone with a PHD in mathematics about what they are qualified for is funny....I doubt if you will have to see anyone like that competing against you at your job interviews. One can be a grade school teacher, at least a substitute by the time they finish their first 60 units. Ricardo, does a degree still replace credentials in terms of K-12 teaching? I thought it did at one time but I am not sure...but from now on......i'll give credence to those who spent their 12 years as a student in higher education when they take it upon themselves to criticize what I do or have done...anyone else who comes at me like that....has a whole lot of late nights to spend coming up to speed.....and then it'll be time to hear what they have to say...but first, it is only fair for them to get off of their azzes and see what it really takes...I bet they will see how much easier it is to talk the talk than it is to walk the walk........