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quote:
Originally posted by Nmaginate:
quote:
YOU ARE ACTING LIKE THE MONKEYS I SEE ON T.V.........


Priceless!

And about the ignorance distancing thing you're wanting to do... Let's just say you'll be like a dog running from its own shadow. Oh how far will you go... lol


girlfromthenc, I think you're cold busted.
quote:
Originally posted by Huey:
quote:
Originally posted by Nmaginate:
quote:
YOU ARE ACTING LIKE THE MONKEYS I SEE ON T.V.........


Priceless!

And about the ignorance distancing thing you're wanting to do... Let's just say you'll be like a dog running from its own shadow. Oh how far will you go... lol


girlfromthenc, I think you're cold busted.



So what happens if I see a dog, cat or zebra on t.v.? What then? Am I cold busted then too? Roll Eyes
Little one
You are out of your mind. Your response is beneath ignorant. I am African to the marrow in my bones. My parents African born. My religion is African. My Black ass born in Ile Ife, Nigeria in Africa. As you can see from the other family responses here anyone who reads this forum know I'm African and damned proud of it. It is you who is confused about your heritage, I know mine back 53 generations. My family oriki (history in song-poem form)would be the longest book your ignorant ass has ever read.
You sound young and stupid so I'll just break your dumb ass off a little light. You can call youself an ostrich if you like but the blood of your ancestors will be screaming in your veins. May that scream awaken you from the slumber that your slavemasters have induced in you. I sign myself Fagunwa (Ifa wears the crown) Oladayo(honor becomes eight) Karade ( return the people to tradition). Proud African who loves all of his people.
quote:
Originally posted by Fagunwa:

It is you who is confused about your heritage, I know mine back 53 generations. My family oriki (history in song-poem form)would be the longest book your ignorant ass has ever read.



Fagunwa - in another thread - I'd love it if you could share more about your family history. Being able to trace your family back 53 generations is absolutely amazing!!! Our family can trace our history back quite a ways for African American standards, and that's only 7 or 8 generations. I'd love to know more about your history and what is typical of continental Africans in terms of how far back they can trace their lineage! brosmile upfro
Your Highness
I would be happy to do so as soon as time avails itself. My family has kept it's traditional oriki better than most because they have maintained their religious tradition better than most.
The family oriki traces us back to Oduduwa (my avatar picture)who is said to be the founder of the "Yoruba" nation.
quote:
Originally posted by girlfromthenc:
quote:
Originally posted by Huey:
quote:
Originally posted by Nmaginate:
quote:
YOU ARE ACTING LIKE THE MONKEYS I SEE ON T.V.........


Priceless!

And about the ignorance distancing thing you're wanting to do... Let's just say you'll be like a dog running from its own shadow. Oh how far will you go... lol


girlfromthenc, I think you're cold busted.



So what happens if I see a dog, cat or zebra on t.v.? What then? Am I cold busted then too? Roll Eyes


bs Please, you know exactly what I'm talking about. If you're calling black people monkeys, then you're definitely not who you claim to be, no matter how many black celebrity avatars you have. Roll Eyes downT
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fagunwa:

Fagunwa - in another thread - I'd love it if you could share more about your family history. Being able to trace your family back 53 generations is absolutely amazing!!!


Hell yeah, and that's not nearly all I'd love to see. Fagunwa, from the posts I've read of yours on this website, I can say that you don't post here anywhere near enough. I feel like every time I read a post of yours, I have mad questions for you. You should really write more.
I praise Olodumare, Orunmila and my ancestors for all the love.I strive to be worthy of my peoples respect. Vox if you or anyone else has questions just ask,I am really busy but I will answer all that I can and will honestly say I don't know if I don't know.
Our people are so spiritually powerful here in america. We could be even more than we think if we re-link to our ancestors in Africa in any way we choose. Our blood mixture is not only wih euro's but with many African nations so virtually any tradition we choose will link us with something beautiful. I say we because I am you and you are me, we are one.
quote:
Originally posted by Fagunwa:

Vox if you or anyone else has questions just ask,I am really busy but I will answer all that I can and will honestly say I don't know if I don't know.



Can you describe the way that you can track your lineage back so far? When I was in Korea, I met a man who had a book that chronicled his family history back for something like a thousand years. For example, he knew that a great, great . . . . grandfather was mayor of what was then Seoul around 1000 AD. How do you track your history? Is there a document that gets passed along? Who gets this document? In Korea, my colleague was the first born of a particular father - therefore he got the book. Similar tradition with yours?

Looking forward to your reply! brosmile

53 generations is something like 1600 years! WOW!!! brosmile Eek
"My god educate yourself X. How can someone argure how childish someone else sounds and you dont' even KNOW ABOUT ANY NON-AFRICAN HISTORY?

puerto rican "African" admixture link

Now notice how many countries have "MULATTO" populations. For example the DOMINCIAN REPLUBIC IS 73% MULATTO, BUT IS CONSIDER "HISPANIC". CUBA IS 50% MULATTO BUT CONSIDER "HISPANIC"

http://www.umsl.edu/services/govdocs/wofact2000/fields/ethnic_groups.html

Can you even try to understand just how many millions upon millions of people who have African ancestry and Blood?"

_____________________________________

I am well aware that Puerto Ricans as a people are racially mixed with Spaniard, Taino and West African blood. You still do not know beyond a shadow of a doubt that JLo has African ancestry and why is the assumption that she does? Regardless of whether she does or does not have African ancestry, she is clearly not PRIMARILY African descended, she's primarily Taino descended, Black Americans are primarily African descended, which is why they're "Black" Americans and JLo isn't a Black Puerto Rican, there are dark skinned Black Puerto Ricans. So what is your point. What does JLo having any Black blood have anything to do with is. Wtf are you getting to? JLo does or doesn't have some Black ancestry, either way, she's not primarily African descended and Black Americans are, they're are primarily African descended Puerto Ricans, so I don't understand where you going with that.
"I have never disrespected NOR meant to disrespect any Africans. I simply WANT the respect for my people that we deserve. We deserve recognition for our own accomplishments! I disagree with people who claim to be Black American just as much as I do with any other ethnicity about this very subject!

I do not believe one has to deny Afro-American accomplishments and our ethnicity to have "Black unity".

Proud of my Afro-American hertiage! "


I am not for worldwide Black unity/pan-Africanism, I care about continental Black African people and our struggles, so there's no arguement for you there from me. Those pan-Africanists, African, WI, BA, who identify Black Americans as "Africans" don't deny that if they're Africans, they're still a unique group of African people in the US, so I don't think even they would try to deny AfroAmericans they're on accomplishments, like me saying Fela Kuti ( who was a famous pan-Africanist Nigerian musician )makes me proud to be African doesn't take away the fact that he was Nigerian in particular, Nigerians are Africans and Zambians are (virtually) Africans, and that's what I have in common with him for him to make me pride. Anyways, I'm not espousing unity between Africans and Afro-Americans, or leaching off your acheivements, I'm proud of my own people and heritage, like ancient civilizations like Khemet, Songhay, Mali, Ghana etc., ancient kings and queens like Shaka Zulu, Sundiata Keita, Queen Nzinga, Akhenaton, Mansa Musa, Samouray Toure etc. What should I say to those BA's who are always identifying with Khemet (ancient Egypt ) and ignoring every other Black African civilization, like Nubia and Ethiopia who conquered Egypt at different points in her history, if the ancient Egyptians were Black, they were Black Africans not Black Americans and lived thousands of years before there was even a United States of America. BA's do deserve the respect for their accomplishments, making the US the super power she is, inventions like the traffik light, the first open heart surgery, the clock, lawnmower, etc. but I think you're misunderstanding the intent of those pan-Africanists.
Huey,

When have you ever heard a black person refer to another one as a monkey, no matter how mad? I have never heard it myself and have been many places....maybe the euro in her is coming to the surface, if it is not already there as euro both inner and outer.......

Fagunwa,

That is great that your lineage has been held intact for that long.....may you continue to preserve it and bask in the richness that was our culture also before "those people" destroyed it. I too am curious to hear more and learn........
quote:
Originally posted by X:
"My god educate yourself X. How can someone argure how childish someone else sounds and you dont' even KNOW ABOUT ANY NON-AFRICAN HISTORY?

puerto rican "African" admixture link

Now notice how many countries have "MULATTO" populations. For example the DOMINCIAN REPLUBIC IS 73% MULATTO, BUT IS CONSIDER "HISPANIC". CUBA IS 50% MULATTO BUT CONSIDER "HISPANIC"

http://www.umsl.edu/services/govdocs/wofact2000/fields/ethnic_groups.html

Can you even try to understand just how many millions upon millions of people who have African ancestry and Blood?"

_____________________________________

I am well aware that Puerto Ricans as a people are racially mixed with Spaniard, Taino and West African blood. You still do not know beyond a shadow of a doubt that JLo has African ancestry and why is the assumption that she does? Regardless of whether she does or does not have African ancestry, she is clearly not PRIMARILY African descended, she's primarily Taino descended, Black Americans are primarily African descended, which is why they're "Black" Americans and JLo isn't a Black Puerto Rican, there are dark skinned Black Puerto Ricans. So what is your point. What does JLo having any Black blood have anything to do with is. Wtf are you getting to? JLo does or doesn't have some Black ancestry, either way, she's not primarily African descended and Black Americans are, they're are primarily African descended Puerto Ricans, so I don't understand where you going with that.
"I have never disrespected NOR meant to disrespect any Africans. I simply WANT the respect for my people that we deserve. We deserve recognition for our own accomplishments! I disagree with people who claim to be Black American just as much as I do with any other ethnicity about this very subject!

I do not believe one has to deny Afro-American accomplishments and our ethnicity to have "Black unity".

Proud of my Afro-American hertiage! "


I am not for worldwide Black unity/pan-Africanism, I care about continental Black African people and our struggles, so there's no arguement for you there from me. Those pan-Africanists, African, WI, BA, who identify Black Americans as "Africans" don't deny that if they're Africans, they're still a unique group of African people in the US, so I don't think even they would try to deny AfroAmericans they're on accomplishments, like me saying Fela Kuti ( who was a famous pan-Africanist Nigerian musician )makes me proud to be African doesn't take away the fact that he was Nigerian in particular, Nigerians are Africans and Zambians are (virtually) Africans, and that's what I have in common with him for him to make me pride. Anyways, I'm not espousing unity between Africans and Afro-Americans, or leaching off your acheivements, I'm proud of my own people and heritage, like ancient civilizations like Khemet, Songhay, Mali, Ghana etc., ancient kings and queens like Shaka Zulu, Sundiata Keita, Queen Nzinga, Akhenaton, Mansa Musa, Samouray Toure etc. What should I say to those BA's who are always identifying with Khemet (ancient Egypt ) and ignoring every other Black African civilization, like Nubia and Ethiopia who conquered Egypt at different points in her history, if the ancient Egyptians were Black, they were Black Africans not Black Americans and lived thousands of years before there was even a United States of America. BA's do deserve the respect for their accomplishments, making the US the super power she is, inventions like the traffik light, the first open heart surgery, the clock, lawnmower, etc. but I think you're misunderstanding the intent of those pan-Africanists.




X,

You are ASSUMING DEAD WRONG! Because someone does not identify themselves as "Black" does not mean they are not of African descent nor that they aren't MAJORITY African! Latin Americans base their "RACE" on their SKIN COLOR, and not whether they are over 50% Black in blood. broscream

I wish Africans themselves would check out other people's histories. How can you claim someone and you don't even understand who they are and what they went through?

Latin Americans go be SKIN TYPES (and not Blood supposed quantities):

For example, Blanco, Trigeno, Mulatto, indo, Moreno, etc, etc. are all Latin skin cateogories.

Any LATIN AMERICAN CAN BE OF AFRICAN ANCESTRY AND BE ANYONE ONE OF THESE "SKIN TYPES".

You don't think Jeniffer Lopez has Black blood, and really, really HEAVY Black admixture at that? Please take look at the board "What are Africans"? A person 1/4 Afro-American can be completely Caucasian in phenotype! Also, please again check out the history of Puerto Rico-the links I gave out! IN 1850 PUERTO RICO WAS 50%BLACK 50% WHITE!!! DO YOU HONESTLY THINK BLACK PUERTO RICANS WENT BACK TO AFRICA??? LOL. NO, THEY WERE ABSORBED INTO THE POPULATIONS SO NOW PUERTO RICANS CAN SWEAR THEY ARE "WHITE" COUNTRY MIXED WITH A LITTLE INDIAN. MOST AFRICANS DON'T REALIZE THEY ARE SIMPLY TOO ASHAMED TO CLAIM THEIR "SLAVE' BLOOD!


PLEASE, PLEASE I beg of Africans who are claim to actually be INTERESTED in the African diaspora actually take the time to read these histories. Most folks who of African descent do not consider themselves "Black". They might be 30%, 40%, or even 50% African in blood. In most countries being "Black" is considered the lowest status one can have to they simple avoid using the term...................

This child is 1/4Afro-American. Most folks would swear the mother, actress Victoria Rowell, was "Black" and most African in descent but her daughter proves that theory wrong!

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Maybe my next board should be why everyone is so ashamed to claim African ancestors! brocool
After hearing the "monkey" at work Fagunwa, I'm beginning to feel the same way.

The shameful part about all this is that so call proud Africans (who pretend to be Afro-American in blood and hertiage) themselves never question Hispanics or Arabs about being of African descent! Why? Because they know they'd tell them "Nigger, get out of my face". Or say something like "Nigga, I ain't Black and nappy headed like you".

And for some reason they respect THEM for that! Roll Eyes. The same people who show them nothing but pride and actually CLAIM THEM, are told that they are "ashamed of themselves" if they don't claim to be "Africans".

_______________________________________

Since I'm the only person here who actually knows about the AFRICAN DISAPORA and its ENTIRE HISTORY, I'm going to tell Fagunwa and his ill what the so call "Mulatto" Domincians use to do.

Dominicans somehow, have made up their mind that they are of "Indian" ancestry and that is where they get their dark skin from. Everyone and their mother knows that "Mulatto" orginaly meant an African/Euroean "pure" offspring. (the African part was too painful to think about so they made the "African blood" into "Indian") Only Hiatians are Blacks according to them! In the 1940's or so during the Trijullo area their was a Dominican policy of trying to keep the "African Hiatians" from coming into the country. They call that policy ""CATCHING A CONGO" (Hiatians being the Africans of course). Never mind that Dominicans are from the same African stock as Hiatians. The only real difference between those two were Hiatians killed most of their countries Mulattos during the Hiatian Revolution and Dominicans didn't! (And one of colonized by the French and the other by Spain).


The funny thing knowing this, is how SILLY and unknowning everyone here seems to be! They actually think Hiatians are "Africans" and Dominicans are Hispanics! Hell they are from the SAME AFRICAN STOCK!

PEOPLE LEARN YOUR HISTORY! READ, ABSORB, AND EXPAND THE MIND!!
X,




Pictured here is the average Dominican look. Baseball star Sammy Sosa! How in the hell is he LESS AFRICAN LOOKING than let's say an everyday Black American (of Afro-American descent). For example Will smith.



Let's be honest here X. Who looks MORE African? The only REAL difference in the two is that Will Smith PROUDLY admits his African ancestry and Sammy Sosa will pretend that his "slave blodd" is really Indian. Roll Eyes

____________________________________

I personally don't believe in this "majority African excuse". Will Smith calls himself a Black man because that is what his people (Afro-Amerians do). Sammy calls himself "Hispanic" because people who don't know better (including Afrocentrics), are told that Hispanic means being of White AND Indian descent. Its less embarrassing for people to claim to be the descendants of a conqueror (mainly Europeans), then saying your ancestor picked cotton and were "slaves". Well guess what, more Blacks went to Hispanic and Arab countries than to the Americas!!!! Clearly if only small percentages of people still claim to be "Black", then the "African" blood has been absorbed into the ENTIRE population.....

Remember, Hispanics decide their "race" by their "skin color". A light skinned Mulatto like Mariah Carey would be considered White in Latin America and no one would even ask he about her Black ancestry. She could totally deny it if she wanted!

quote:
Originally posted by girlfromthenc:
I wish Africans themselves would check out other people's histories. How can you claim someone and you don't even understand who they are and what they went through?



girl ...

Speaking of checking out other people's histories, could you share with us how you know the histories of any of these people you are talking about? Are you JLo's personal genealogical consultant or something .. or is your knowledge based on what you purport to know about Puerto Ricans? Are you Puerto Rican? Do you even know any?

Or what about Victoria Rowell? If you wouldn't mind, could you explain how you know the ancestral blood-content of her ... or her daughter? Did you sit down with either her or her parents or Maya's father or his parents and record a personal history of some sort that gave you access to her family tree? Did you know that Ms. Rowell was in the foster care system from the time she was 6 weeks old and has know idea who her father even is? Therefore, tracing her or her daughter's lineage could effectively be a rather impossible undertaking! Eek

As you have spent the last 100+ posts incessantly repeating claims of knowing the personal ancestry and origins of not only the rich and famous, but just about every member here on this board, I'd be very interested in knowing by what authority it is you have to make these claims and the extent of your education or knowledge by which we should accept your declarations as based in any kind of fact at all?? Confused

Showing us a picture of Sammy and Will and then asking us if they look African isn't very scientific. Eek
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
quote:
Originally posted by girlfromthenc:
I wish Africans themselves would check out other people's histories. How can you claim someone and you don't even understand who they are and what they went through?



Speaking of checking out other people's histories, could you share with us how you know the histories of any of these people you are talking about?


Well, she'll have to do that from the "?" forum. On another thread she got to calling folks monkeys and all so I had to chill her out a bit! brosmile
Peace to all of you.
Originally families in the Oyo(yoruba) nation had Oriki's or oral histories, as do the divinities. Because I come from a family of Ifa priests who did not convert to Islam or Xtianity ours is very extensive. My Grandfather was the first one to be educated in the western sense,so he wrote down the family oriki with his additions. Because I am the one with the most education now,the oldest son and an Ifa priest,I have the book and am making the additions. I am presently putting the info on a computer disk for future generations to update.
This is only strange because of what slavery and colonization did to us. In my Grandfathers compound his parents and Grandparents are buried under his living room floor! This was also common among my people. We have lost much. Now they make ancestors (dead family members) speaking to us in dreams horror movie stuff.
I am not trying to tell anyone to call themselves African, Turtle,cat or anything else. I say embrace you lost African ancestors in any way you choose. AA's have many deep and beautiful traditions in their blood, I say embrace one that connects you to one African tradition. AA's embrace much euro or arab stuff i.e. xtianity,islam but what do we do for our African ancestors that is African? Are our african ancestors not also worthy of honor, of remembrance?
I have many folks of the latino persuasion around and they have what they call their "african secret" the religion called Lucumi. African Gods called Orisha at home. They know more about these things than most AA's. JLO does not make a move without consulting her priestess.
Littleone from nc you don't know anything. The monkey is a divinity in India. My advice to you is learn more,speak less.
quote:
Originally posted by girlfromthenc:

Why NOT consider SALSA as "African" since it was invented by people who are of African descent?


Um...yeah...why not? Why does it bother you to do so?

Here's some comments about the history of CUMBIA, a musical artform from Colombia closely related to SALSA.

http://africanamerica.org/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=60260642&f=64170254&m=73170694&r=85770694#85770694

(You'll have to scroll down just a bit, past some of the silliness arising from another forum, where I originally posted the comments.)
quote:
Originally posted by Fagunwa:
Originally families in the Oyo(yoruba) nation had Oriki's or oral histories.



As I understand it, most African nations have oral histories. In fact, elder group members must be very proficient in oraturer since they are the most knowledgeable about the tribe's traditions. The African community's preference for oraturer is also why there is very little information available about traditional African civilizations and why it is so difficult for historians and anthropologists to learn about African civilizations without actually having to go to these remote areas and observe the Africans themselves. Additionally, you spoke about the "dead ancestors," in many traditional African societies, an ancestor is not dead in the way that Westerners conceive of death, but has only ascended to a different position in the community which is why they are believed to be capable of speaking to them in their dreams.
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quote:
Originally posted by Fagunwa:
is only strange because of what slavery and colonization did to us. In my Grandfathers compound his parents and Grandparents are buried under his living room floor! This was also common among my people. We have lost much. Now they make ancestors (dead family members) speaking to us in dreams horror movie stuff.
I am not trying to tell anyone to call themselves African, Turtle,cat or anything else. I say embrace you lost African ancestors in any way you choose. AA's have many deep and beautiful traditions in their blood, I say embrace one that connects you to one African tradition. AA's embrace much euro or arab stuff i.e. xtianity,islam but what do we do for our African ancestors that is African? Are our african ancestors not also worthy of honor, of remembrance?
I have many folks of the latino persuasion around and they have what they call their "african secret" the religion called Lucumi. African Gods called Orisha at home. They know more about these things than most AA's. JLO does not make a move without consulting her priestess.
Littleone from nc you don't know anything. The monkey is a divinity in India. My advice to you is learn more,speak less.


Ase!

I would comment on this thread again...but there is nothing more of substance I could add after this post...Fagunwa said it all.
No, the reason I don't celebrate or recognize Kwanzaa is because the language and practices of that occasion are drawn from an African tribe that is not mine.---Mudede

I have a problem with Kwanzaa too.

I think the idea of Kwanzaa, by whatever name, is worthwhile. I think the idea will evolve into the holiday that befits us as a people of African American national heritage.

Which is what I think such a holiday should be.


I'm Manica,...---Mudede

Mr. Mudede says this is the reason he has a problem with Kwanzaa. It makes obvious sense. Kwanzaa is a holiday for African American- Americans. Mr. Mudede is not African American. He also may not be American.

Mr. Mudede's article is excellent. He not only tells us what his problem is, but he explains why it is.

My kind of guy.

He also talks about what is important to the interface of Americans of unknown African ancestry with Africa.

It seems to boil down to singular identity.


There is an example already in language: English, the language of the oppressors, unifies black Africans because it is not the native language of any black African tribe. English also unifies black Africans with black Americans. Similarly, the fact that black Americans are not attached to a tribe (or tribes) means that they have created a unified African-American culture, one that offers Africans a better example for unification than anything you would find in Africa itself.---Mudede

I heartily agree.

This is the foundation of my insistence on ancestral nationality my family. AND I suggest this for all families of unknown African ancestry.

The interface of ancestral nationality circumvents, overcomes, negates, all challenges to the identity issue, including those bad, and wrong, lessons taught to us by our parents.


PEACE

Jim Chester
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Oshun Auset:

I appreciate your post on language. I have always had a 'fuzzy' perception of Bantu based on information that began for me back in my sophomore year in school. That information was reinforced by later knowledge, but it was most often related to drawing the line for 'black' Africa.

I was always somewhat bewildered by the idea that a 'line' drawn across Africa, even though imaginary, could 'put a fence' around the 'black' people of the entire continent.

I had a lot of unlearning to do when I began my search for understanding identity as it related to me. A task still incomplete, I might add.

Mr. Mudede's take on Kwanzaa enable things to be said which could only have been accepted on this board when said by an African national.

PEACE

Jim Chester
quote:
Originally posted by Fagunwa:
Rowe Thank You for your clarifications. Where are you from?


I'm not native to any African country, I just read about them; therefore, my knowledge about African cultures and civilizations is limited. Teachers must have a broad knowledge base about many different subjects. However, much of what you stated in your abbreviated biography is familar. In agreeement with others, this subject is important and it should be discussed extensively. I notice among my students, there's a growing interest in learning about traditional Africa prior to European intervention. With the principal's permission, I think teachers should plan to invite representatives from around the world to talk about their native traditions with our students. I'm not suggesting that we convert students over to an African religion, one cannot be "converted" to an African religion to begin with, but the goal should be to help students (of all races) become better informed about world cultures.
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Case in point, recently, a white graduate student in the Education program of which I am apart presented a mock Unit on "Sumerian Art." To my astonishment, a black student raises her hand and asks the presenter, "Were the Sumerians black because you know Egypt is almost near Africa." This graduate student, who is the eldest among us, had to be informed that Egypt is not "near" Africa, Egypt is on the continent of Africa. This only just demonstrates what little people know about Africa. We know of its turmoil, war, and disease outbreaks, but little else.---Rowe

The only map I have found, so far and I will look further, show Sumer off the African continent, but near. That's incidental.

I have seen similar unawareness in unexpected places. I watch a lecture by McCollough, the noted historian, where related his experience of a student coming up to him after a presentation on coloninal America and said she was surprised to hear that the thirteen colonies were all on the East Coast.

The perception of the world is different from reality for an awful lot of people educated and uneducated.


PEACE

Jim Chester
I understand that some think these things should be discussed extensively but I operate under certain restraints for instance,
Ifa initiation gives the Awo the ability to invoke Odu, this means that the Awo is a potential medium for every spirt worshiped in traditional "Yoruba" culture. This represents a great amount of spiritual power which cannot be used in arrogance hence the Awo does not usually offer his opinion without being asked and when asked the first answer given is usually Odu,the wisdom of the ancestors. Maybe I'll make an " Ask Fagunwa" thread (LOL) sort of a Dear Abby for AA.org.
Also Rowe, with all respect, one can be "converted" to an African religion I help people do it all the time. It takes time but it happens.
quote:
Originally posted by Fagunwa:
Also Rowe, with all respect, one can be "converted" to an African religion I help people do it all the time. It takes time but it happens.


According to Canon Professor John Mbiti, an Anglican priest from Kenya, who has taught Theology and Religion for many years at Makerere University in Uganda, one cannot be converted to an African religion because the African religion carries with it the tribe's history, lineage, and traditions. We know that its quite common for Westerners to flip flop back and forth to different religions as if they are playing musical chairs, but according to Mbiti, in African societies, one's religion is one's birthright. One is born into his religion, it is not "selected." Also, if one could be converted to an African religion then we would also have to assume that it can be solicited and/or imposed upon others outside of the group. But this too is incorrect. As I understand it, African religions are never solicited to anyone outside of the tribe. In fact, there are said to be over 4,000 African religions on the continent and one tribe can have a entirely different set of beliefs from a neighborhing tribe. Despite their differences however, one tribe does not impose its belief system on another. I would be interested in reading your thoughts about this research and about the professor's description of African Religion.

References (All by J.S. Mbiti):

African Religions & Philosophy (1992)
Introduction to African Religion (1991)
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quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:

Well I'm not native to any African country, I just read about them; therefore, my knowledge about African cultures and civilizations is limited.


Rowe, you speak with a level of arrogance that is astonishing since you admit to not knowing much about the topic. Respectfully, I would think Fagunwa has a bit better frame of reference from which to comment on this. You should "listen" and learn - as I am.
I never said I didn't know anything about Africa MBM, I have at least some knowledge about African religion, certainly enough to participate in this discussion. Fagunwa is claiming to be knowledgeable about this subject, so what better person to finally have a real disscussion and/or debate with? I also distinctly remember Oshun saying that she read some of Mbiti's work back in Highschool so perhaps she can weigh in on this as well rather than simply trusting whatever someone says is accurate. In any case, if Fagunwa wishes to challenge the research that I have found and presented here, he certainly may and I'm hoping he will. I would love to get some references or perhaps some information that I can look up that goes against Mbiti experiences with his African culture and religion.
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quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:

"no one here has anything to say that is beyond a challenge. Afterall, that is what a debate is all about."


And that's why I will constantly deconstruct the BS you post here. And, yes, that means I will always bring up your post from the Reparations thread and the fact that you VOICE SENTIMENTS WITHOUT CONVICTION!

So, no more crying from you. Just stand up to the challenge.
quote:
Originally posted by Nmaginate:
So, no more crying from you. Just stand up to the challenge.


The only difference Nmaginate is that I'm more interested in an intellectual challenge based upon substantial research, rather than an opinionated discussion of low credibility. And surprisingly, no one has yet to confront you about your arrogance. Remember Talented10th, not more than a two week old member? Remember how you verbally trashed her to the point that she has yet to return back to this forum, and I don't blame her. Why doesn't anyone check you on this? Why is my "arrogance" called into question while your blantant disrespect goes virtually unnoticed? I'm beginning to detect a hint a favoritism shown toward the male posters on this board.
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quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:

The only difference Nmaginate, is that your idea of a challenge is to belittle, verbally bash, and verbally abuse those with whom you disagree. This doesn't present much of a challenge to me.
BULLSHIT!!!

You show yourself emotionally challenged and Telling The Truth Challenged because I present things that logically contend with what you say. You get caught up in the delivery. That sounds like a personal, emotional problem of yours, in my book.

quote:
Yet surprisingly, no one has ever confronted you about your arrogance or the consistent disrespect that you have shown to members on this forumm, most of whom I have closely watch confront you about it repeatedly.
And I welcome any challenge... And I don't dismiss them simply because I don't like the form they come in.

quote:
Remember Talented10th? Remember how you verbally insulted her to the point that she has yet to return back to this forum. And I don't blame her.
And that would be her problem. When she, you or anyone else want to step.... you better make sure you step correct.

If you can't take it... don't try to dish it out. Me, whatever I dish out... I can take. Maybe I just get down like that. I'm not weak at heart.

quote:
I'm beginning to detect a hint a favoritism shown toward the male posters on this board. Yes, your method of challenge is to bully people off of the forum until there is no one left except those who share your mentality or those who are simply too scared to challenge it.
This is tired, ROWE.

OSHUN... YSSYS... EBONY are all sisters I respect. And I've had plenty of disagreements, challenges from them... yet none of them would begin to think that I've tried to run them off.

Perhaps, EBONY can speak to that. We've gone at it the most. And your allegations as well as all the unfounded things you say are the greatest insults I've ever heard.

Me... at best I insult whomever I'm "targeting". You... in all your arrogance insult the intelligence of the entire board with your claims, allegations and assumptions that we don't know as much or more than you do.

I'm the Mighty Intolerant. Make no mistake about it. I don't like bullshit or bullshitters. That's why I verbally lay the smack down on you while I simultaneous slaughter you intellectual.

Art and Science.
Entertainment and Education.

So, pardon me while I don't give a fuck about your fragile ego.
ROWE,

Let me break it down to you like this:
quote:
Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will.

Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection...
Simply put, I'm the latter and you're the former.

While you think or would like to present yourself as being "respectful" of other views - which I have proven false (yes... that same damn post of yours in the Reparations thread is proof) - you really are not. Snakes still bite no matter how much they may appear to be charming.
Then we agree that you need to respond to people's post, rather than react emotionally to them. And more importantly, that you begin exercising a more tactful way of rejecting people's points of view rather than the over the top, unnecessary emotional displays you've demonstrated thus far???
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quote:
Originally posted by Fagunwa:
Maybe I'll make an " Ask Fagunwa" thread (LOL) sort of a Dear Abby for AA.org.



I think this is an excellent idea, granted you have the time to spare. I would love to get into all of the important details about your family's religion and culture compared with the belief systems of other African communities.
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quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
Then we agree that you need to respond to people's post, rather than react emotionally to them. And more importantly, that you begin exercising a more tactful way of rejecting people's points of view rather than the over the top, unnecessary emotional displays you've demonstrated thus far???
Please... I agree that you have a fragile ego that I'm not obliged to give a damn about.

That's your problem.

I await your challenge to the way I logically deconstruct things you say. I'll make sure not to hold my breath...
quote:
Originally posted by blkkatvid:
I think Mr. Charles Mudede is confused. I don't see any connection between African-Americans and tribalism except for the feud between the Bloods and Crypts gangs. Mr. Mudede should pick on the made-up Christmas Holidays and talk about European tribialism, then get back to Kwanzaa.


I like that statement. Well said.
quote:
Originally posted by AudioGuy:
quote:
Originally posted by Nmaginate:
Please... I agree that you have a fragile ego...


I am not taking sides, but if sister Rowe had a fragile ego she'd have been out a long time ago... you have been throwing heat for quite some time and she's still here - which is something that I am really surprised by.

Brother... special rule for me.

You can take sides against me if you so decide to. I don't pull punches and I don't want punches pulled on me.

Like I said. If I dish it out, I can take it. So, perhaps, if anything I'm guilty of regarding other people's sensibilities in the same respect as mine. I don't mind so-called rudeness or insults because I'm looking for the substance anyway. Been that way from day one.

Don't feel like you have to caveat your statements on my account. If you think I'm wrong... just say it. We can deal with that.

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