quote:
Originally posted by Cholly:

Major Hasan, a Muslim military officer, warned senior military officers of potential threats (maybe at the time he wasn't referring to himself but!) and instead of listening to someone who knew exactly what happening within the military ranks and taking positive action, they got pissed, blew it off and labeled him and devalued his effectiveness and abilities as a military officer."



Can you believe it ek I heard it on a talk show this morning on the way in to work. They blew the dude off, just as you say...
quote:
Originally posted by Cholly:
bang Roll Eyes ek td6 Major Hasan, a Muslim military officer, warned senior military officers of potential threats (maybe at the time he wasn't referring to himself but!) and instead of listening to someone who knew exactly what happening within the military ranks and taking positive action, they got pissed, blew it off and labeled him and devalued his effectiveness and abilities as a military officer."

Then it happens and now everyone is in shock. bang


And the thing is ... it's not only "this type of thing" that's a problem in the military! Eek

Thousands of low rank-and-file soldiers have confirmed states of mental illness and PTSD, and while they don't go in and shoot up military bases, they are murdering themselves and their wives and children and other family members along the way!

They are violent and combative within normal society and the end up getting a 'free pass' because they are soldiers, and the military needs to put them back out into combat for another tour of duty! Roll Eyes td6

To add insult to injury ...once they do exhibit enough of a deteriorated mental state to be deemed unfit to serve, they are kicked out with no medical treatment made available to them because the Pentagon doesn't want to pay for the damage they have done to these soldiers after they have used them to capacity and them spit them out! Mad

I dunno ... both the President and the First Lady have vowed to make veterans issues a top priority. I hope they put their money where their mouths are ... because if anybody deserves to be compensated for their service, it is the men and women of the military who take an oath to lay down their lives for us every single day.

And the fact that they are soooooo mistreated, really pisses me the hell off! bang
fro I think it's totally arrogant that America blows folks off who have the potential to do harm...especially when they derive from a country that HATES America! What's that saying...you can take a person out of the country....but! You can't take the "country" or the homeland outta that person. How TRUE is this statement? Everybody...doesn't LOVE America. Even if one lives here from another place. I am NOT as trusting as the government. Nope! Not in the least. These folks have a history of disrespecting their own WOMEN and children...where it is said or shown that they give a sweet fock about anything else....other than their twisted rheotric? Centuries long twisted rheotric, I might add. And that suspicious brotherhood...among themselves...which always have me going19 How can you have alliance to your gender and NOT your family? Sumthing very SICK about that....but! JMHO is all.

fro
quote:
Thousands of low rank-and-file soldiers have confirmed states of mental illness and PTSD, and while they don't go in and shoot up military bases, they are murdering themselves and their wives and children and other family members along the way!


I don't know if anybody mentioned this already but Fort Hood had serious problems before the shooting spree:

    "...Fort Hood soldiers have accounted for more suicides than any other army post since the US invasion of Iraq in 2003. This year alone, the base is averaging over 10 suicides each month - at least 75 have been recorded through July of this year alone."

    http://www.alternet.org/world/...oldiers_to_the_brink
quote:
Originally posted by Kocolicious:
Originally posted by Ricardomath
quote:
That was kind of stupid.

If I want to quit my job, I just quit.

I've done it before, even mid-semester once. I didn't have to shoot up the university to get out.


fro That's all I'm sayin' Roll Eyes If he wasn't a PLANT....he certainty EVOLVED into one. Maybe folks are just uncomfortable with the fact that....the terrorists may be plotting violent mayhem within the United States oppose to doing it WAY WAY WAY on the outside of American soil. Maybe Americans are too comfortable hearing about this kinda thang in Pakistan, Afgahinstan[sp] or Iraq. It's easier to change the channel...cuz they are most times unaffected....but! Not this time. Nope. Me myself still believe that the some of middle east folks despite their wealth in oil are still socially STUCK in olden days where they settled disputes by chopping off heads or killing those who won't convert or by todays standards: blowin themselves up with the enemy...but! JMHO is all.

fro


Well, that wasn't quite my point.

My point was, if somebody indicates a desire to quit their job, let them.

It's the law.
quote:
Originally posted by Nquest:
quote:
Thousands of low rank-and-file soldiers have confirmed states of mental illness and PTSD, and while they don't go in and shoot up military bases, they are murdering themselves and their wives and children and other family members along the way!


I don't know if anybody mentioned this already but Fort Hood had serious problems before the shooting spree:

    "...Fort Hood soldiers have accounted for more suicides than any other army post since the US invasion of Iraq in 2003. This year alone, the base is averaging over 10 suicides each month - at least 75 have been recorded through July of this year alone."

    http://www.alternet.org/world/...oldiers_to_the_brink



wow! Eek
Not trying to down play those stats but I would really like to see a further breakdown, something the gov't is not likely to do. The reason I say this is b/c alot of these stats include National Guard, Reserve, & IRR attached, to Ft Hood units, round outs, transitioning or other usually from other states.
Lumping everything into one lump doesn't seem to do the issue justice.
I really don't understand the rationale behind trying to build a "defense" for this man.  He's guilty as sin of what he is charged with.  Everybody in the world knows it.  There simply is no "defense" for what he did.  "Due process", at this point, is both a waste and a joke.

The only real question left to answer is does he deserved to die for what he did or not? 
 


Judge grants delay for Fort Hood shootings suspect

From Chris Lawrence, CNN




Fort Hood, Texas (CNN) -- A judge on Tuesday granted a defense request to delay the Article 32 hearing of Maj. Nidal Hasan, the Army psychiatrist accused of killing 13 people in a November shooting spree at Fort Hood, Texas, until October.

Hasan made his first courtroom appearance in connection with the case Tuesday. The hearing was the first part of an Article 32 hearing, the military procedure similar to a civilian grand jury, for the case being built against him by the Army.

Hasan uses a wheelchair after gunshot wounds he sustained in the November 5 incident. He wheeled himself into the courtroom, wearing his Army fatigues. He wrapped himself in a blanket during the hearing.

Hasan offered short answers to questions posed by the judge, Investigating Officer Col. James Pohl. Asked whom he wanted to represent him, he named his three attorneys.

Hasan appeared calm throughout the proceeding, at one point cracking a smile while speaking with his attorney.

Security for the hearing was tight, with nearby streets blocked off and bomb-sniffing dogs present. Reporters went through two layers of security. The only people present at the hearing besides the media were legal assistants.

Most of the hearing revolved around evidence Hasan's attorneys have asked for in the discovery process, the routine practice that is part of every criminal case, be it civilian or military.

Hasan's lead civilian attorney, John Galligan, a retired colonel with three decades of experience as an Army lawyer, has asked for everything from DNA test results to crime scene video to copies of investigations of the shooting ordered by President Barack Obama.

Last week, the Army delivered 2,000 pages of documents to Galligan, but many of the items he requested are still not available to the defense team, Galligan said.

For example, dozens of shots were fired that day on the sprawling Army base in central Texas. Galligan asked for "records of the measured angle of each trajectory, showing the trajectory from each bullet hole to the shooter's position."

The Army said in a court document filed in response, "There are no documents of files of items responsive to the defense request at this time."

Galligan also has asked for all e-mails between Hasan and Yemeni-American cleric Anwar al-Awlaki. Prosecutors agreed Tuesday to release them to the defense.

Defense attorneys also are requesting some classified documents. Prosecutors said Tuesday they are in the process of attempting to de-classify them.

Pohl granted defense attorneys' request for the delay, although prosecutors said they would be ready to present evidence at the Article 32 hearing in July.

Galligan's request makes clear that his defense case will delve into what happened before November 5. Hasan's lawyer has asked for reports of inappropriate or substandard work by Hasan while he was training at Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington.

Unlike a civilian grand jury hearing, Article 32 hearings involve both the prosecution and the defense, and witnesses are questioned by both sides.

Galligan earlier told CNN that since the entire defense legal team, which includes Galligan and two military lawyers, has only met with Hasan once, the team needs more time to help build a case for him.

CNN's Larry Shaughnessy contributed to this report.

 
 

 
Find this article at:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/.../index.html?hpt=Sbin
Reference:
I really don't understand the rationale behind trying to build a "defense" for this man.  He's guilty as sin of what he is charged with.  Everybody in the world knows it.  There simply is no "defense" for what he did.  "Due process", at this point, is both a waste and a joke. The only real question left to answer is does he deserved to die for what he did or not?

That's just how the law works in America; everyone has a right to defend themselves in a court of law before a jury of their peers against any charges or allegations levied against them.  In fact, our laws provide that guilty or not, unless the prosecution can prove their case against you, you are supposed to go free.  

Of course I do agree with you whole heartedly, but can you imagine how many people would be in prison on trumped up charges if our laws did not provide this right? Further, you know who would be railed-roaded the most; the same people that are while these laws are in place today.  I guess I should say that if these laws were not in place there would be even more people, especially Black and/or Brown people languishing away in prisons across America on trumped up charges or regardless to the fact that the prosecution did not prove a case against them.  

In this case, one of two things will happen:

1.  This guy will be given the appearance of a defense by an attorney that has been appointed to him, you know, the kind of defense that Black people get when they are defendants in an American court.

2.  Some attorney(s) will diligently defend him in order the reap the benefits of gaining a reputation as very good defense attorneys.

Either way this guy is going to be tried and convicted and is probably looking at the death penalty; there is just going to have to be a lot of taxpayer's money wasted just come to that conclusion.
Reference:
Either way this guy is going to be tried and convicted and is probably looking at the death penalty; there is just going to have to be a lot of taxpayer's money wasted just come to that conclusion.

It's not just the waste of the taxpayer's money ... which is considerable and in cases like these, IMO, unnecessary.  And as you mentioned, Black people already get railroaded  through the (un)justice system on trumped-up, fake. planted and manufactured charges all the time.  I'm not talking about those kinds of cases where guilt or innocence is in question, and those kinds of protections are necessary to hopefully give the accused a fair trial.

 I'm talking about open-and-shut crimes like this fool's here - and many others just like it - where there is NO question that this man is guilty as sin of the crime he is accused of.  He stood up in a room and shot and killed 13 people and shot and wounded many, many more.  There's NOTHING that can be said in a trial that would make the outcome any different than that.  There is no defense that can give him a choice of being found either guilty or innocent.  Too many people saw him do it.  To even given the choice to plead 'not guilty' is a waste of time, energy, effort and money. And the appeals to which he is entitled afterward, is an even bigger waste of everything again.

And there are plenty of cases, just like this one, where the suspect is so unbelievably "caught red-handed" that taking the time to formulate a "defense" for innocence is simply ridiculous.  With all the over-crowded court dockets, public defenders and other court personnel over-worked, under-paid and unable to give a proper defense to those who really need and deserve one .. I say, a couple of hearings to find out if this guy is sane or crazy, the crime was intentional or accidental or whether he lives or dies ... and then move on to matters that are actually important.

Maybe if the system wasn't being clogged up with these types of frivolous proceedings, more important judicial business could get done.
As much as we complain about the justice system, legitimate complaints, I think that its owed at least to the families of the victims to know WHY the defendant did what he did.  He has the right to defend himself. And he should vigorously do so, if he believes he's not guilty. Military court unlike civilian courts have much more hefty sentences. There is no such thing as parole under the UCMJ. The best you can hope for is a reduced sentence if you commit a crime as an active duty soldier, sailor or airman.
Also this exercise of giving him a trial is to give transparency to the miitary court system, which is also the right thing to do.

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