What kind of correlation, if any, is there between what is perhaps the constant assertion that RACISM is at play in American society and the idea that claiming that certain things show evidence of RACISM is, at times, symptomatic of counterproductive and debilitating "Victim Mentality"? Are those that claim RACISM is pervasive yielding to the fatalistic mindset that because of RACISM they can't achieve (at all), therefore doing nothing in terms of self-help?

Are those that claim that Blacks unduly have a "Victim Mentality" belittling the role that RACISM plays in America? Are those that assert this idea essentially not addressing/attacking RACISM at all? Are they abdicating their responsibility to eradicate RACISM or rather the to obligation to alleviate the effects of it?

Given the range of human possibilities, aren't both critiques grounded in some element of truth?
Why or Why not?


Discuss, Deliberate, & Debate...

*----*----*----*----*----*----*----*----*----*----*----*
S A N K O F A : Return & Fetch It!
Learn from and build on the past. It is not taboo to return and fetch
what you have forgotten. You can always correct what went wrong.
In the past, you find the future and understand the present.


[This message was edited by Nmaginate on October 16, 2003 at 11:38 PM.]
Original Post
Nmaginate,

Let me make this one simple bro....the idea that those who acknowledge and articulate the societal racism that exists today are victims is based on 2 distinct perspectives. (According to me fro)

1. The whites who make that claim are brimming with racism themselves based on the fact that their silly azz notion of intellectual superiority makes them think that they can convince the naturally less intelligent negro that he is delusional about his perception of his own social reality. At the same time they dismiss the reality of their actions which serves a green light to continue them since now the darkies do not notice.....like they ever thought about changing regardless....the cowardly azz, denial-laden way they go about it is still indicative of the klan hood-too punk/bitch azz to come out straight up and show who they REALLY are MO.

2. The blacks who lay that same claim are just using one of the many behaviors that clearly displays their agreed-to subjugation. A negro who faces the exact same social reality that any other black does will actually try to "cop the white man's posture" and actually attempt to execute#1. It has to be indirect in nature because of the fear of scorn received by their own race and the internal humiliation associated with thinking like a happy azz slave but too ashamed to admit it publicly.

Bro...that took all of ten seconds.....I appreciate your posting of such thought-provoking questions....Peace
HELLO, YOU STATED:"What kind of correlation, if any, is there between what is perhaps the constant assertion that RACISM is at play in American society and the idea that claiming that something shows evidence of RACISM indicative of counterproductive and debilitating "Victim Mentality"?

MY REPLY: Let me explain this to you. As a spiritual believer in the Bible's truths, let me say 'Racism' according to that TRUTH is a 'demonic spirit' created by whites. It consists of 'hate, arrogance, lies, thievery, murder, deceit' all traits described as 'satanic' and by extension 'demonic' (John 8:44; 10:10; Isaiah 14:12-15).

RACISM EXISTS AND AFFECTS EVERY SPHERE OF BLACK HUMANITIES WELL-BEING! THAT IS A FACT!

White males rule the world. As so, that affects everyone in the world. They came forth stealing, killing, destroying, and they passed that nature and conduct from generation to generation. They rule and run 100% of the wealth and resources of the U.S. and for that matter Africa, so the more appropriate question should be, who is sick, evil, insane enough to NOT SEE THE DEMONIC SPIRIT OF WHITE RACISM AS AFFECTING BLACKS?

The fact is, it is here. They run the U.S. and if you don't believe me, ask them? As a congressman in one southern stated was heard proclaiming, 'THIS IS THE WHITE MAN'S COUNTRY OUR FOREFATHERS CREATED THIS NATION FOR THE WHITE MAN!'

Also, being blessed with 'eyes to see,' I shall never forget when the U.S. first attacked Saddam during Papa Bush reign of terror. The white media gloated and showed the white public the names, the soldiers had named the bombs targeted for the Baghdad that they are over there supposedly saving. It was called, 'WHITE MAN!; Okay? So you see with evidence like that and a myriad of others I could name, we have the 'white man' proclaiming his rule, will, and ways as that which will and does affect the U.S.. Ere go, Blacks in the U.S. are affected by his racist nature. Plain and simple!!

Ghettos were assigned by whites to blacks. Discrimination was assigned by whites to blacks. Lynchings, torture, police brutality, you name it, are that which affects all blacks at the brutal hands of whites.

Who then would dare, have the gall to suggest this evil white professed 'reign' is something that is BAD TO NOTICE so to speak? Has the world gone that insane? Of course, these anti-Christ, beings affect us! Of course, we are meant to be victims of their evil. They control the resources of Africa for pete sake, and use it to run all the WHITE NATIONS while depriving the ignorant African from effectively using it to run their own nations. How could anyone not see that WHITE RACISM PURPOSELY VICTIMIZES BLACKS. THEY CAME FORTH HATING BLACKS AND TO THIS DAY, HAVE REKINDLED THE BLAZE AFRESH AND ANEW AND SO ARE ALL OVER THE AIRWAVES SPEWING THAT WHITE DEMONISM.

As said, they have 100% control and power over the resources of the U.S. to affect us. They tOOK the wealth of America made from the blood, sweat and tears of enslaved black humanity and gave it unto themselves. Named all the major buildings, after themselves. Head all the hierarchies, educational, judicial, journalistic, etc., and favor whites while depriving blacks. Why then would someone turn around and call a black telling the truth about such evil, 'victim mentality.' We are VICTIMS OF THEIR EVIL.

They use our tax dollars to benefit whites and curse blacks for wanting the tax dollars to benefit blacks. Build up black society just as our tax dollars build up white society. They then have their repulsive media question blacks as to the impoverished, neglected, black factions as if white racism didn't deprive them and keep them ignorant.

Fact is, if blacks controlled the tax dollar it would go to REHABILITATION/DEPROGRAMMING OF WHITE RACISM IN BLACKS. We'd create schools, hospitals, clinics, parks, just as whites do for themselves with THE TAX DOLLAR.

'Victim mentality' EXCUSE?! That's white male BS and only a fool would rote it.

No self-respecting black ever taught anything but hard work, and right living. We worked when whites lazy azzes wouldn't. We worked, they reaped the benefits. They have the wealth and resources, power and use it for them while cursing disenfranchised blacks. That's demonism at its most wicked.

"Victim?!" Try BLACKS ARE THE WHITE'S ENEMY AND THEY ARE EVER ATTACKING BLACK PROGRESS! Yeah, so we are victims, with the righteous, wise among us fighting to stop their madness, and in so fighting, finding ourselves having to fight the colored bred children of the white race who stupidly see 'whites as right and blacks as bad.' See they are VICTIMS OF WHITES in that they are BRAINWASHED TO BE SELF-LOATHERS, AND WHITE WORSHIPPERS. Victims? Oh yeah!

The victorious blacks amidst this white treacherous would be 'victimization of blacks' are those who recognize, withstand and denounce the evil of ever present demonic spirit of white racism ever seeking to 'VICTIMIZE' black humanity.

My Motto?! You may ask. Well here's it in a nutshell, I believe in LOVE/HAPPINESS for all righteous souls. I believe you 'love' 'TRUTH/GOD' so much that you put it out there full force, un-restrained, and in so doing, you bring 'HAPPINESS'....wink!

[This message was edited by Prophetessofrage on October 16, 2003 at 11:07 PM.]
"We can be dominated only if we cooperate with our dominators."
- Nelson Mandela on "Ghandi: The Sacred Warrior"

(For more see the new HISTORY Forum!)
Lord have mercy on the self proclaimed Prophetess....the Lord certainly wouldn't embrace those statements. You use Bible verses, but your statement doesn't line up with the Bible!...how ironic Confused
What kind of correlation, if any, is there between what is perhaps the constant assertion that RACISM is at play in American society and the idea that claiming that certain things show evidence of RACISM is, at times, symptomatic of counterproductive and debilitating "Victim Mentality"?
________________________________________________
The correlation between the constant assertion that RACISM is at play, and claiming that certain things show evidence of RACISM is symptomatic of "Victim Mentality":

There is a tight circle of logic going on between these two observations. Racism!!.....Evidence of Racism!!! There is certainly a "fascination" involved. And I hesitate to say "obsession" because may not be overindulgence of any kind. There is a "conditioned response" at work. I think the phenomenon is debilitating. It is repetition of something we all know is true, and an expense of energy on something we cannot change.

Are those that claim RACISM is pervasive yielding to the fatalistic mind-set that because of RACISM they can't achieve (at all), therefore doing nothing in terms of self-help?
________________________________________________

I think the answer is, "Yes." I think the person(s) may not make to open decision to "do nothing," they may simply "stop trying."

Are those that claim that Blacks unduly have a "Victim Mentality" belittling the role that RACISM plays in America?
________________________________________________

Anyone making such a claim, are belittling the person. That person, regardless of ethnicity, is not a friend, intended or unintended.

Are those that assert this idea essentially not addressing/attacking RACISM at all?
____________________________ _______________

Very much to the contrary, that person IS addressing RACISM. That person is not only addressing, but is actively implementing RACISM. The is no person of even average intellect who does not know RACISM is real, and effects of RACISM are equally real.

Are they abdicating their responsibility to eradicate RACISM or rather the to obligation to alleviate the effects of it?
________________________________________________

With the knowledge we all have, that person is choosing to implement RACISM.

Given the range of human possibilities, aren't both critiques grounded in some element of truth?
________________________________________________

The truth in both is the reality of RACISM. How it gets twisted is, to me, only a variation of the disease. To examine whether it is cancer of the liver, or lung, or bone, or kidney does not change the "cause of death" on the death certificate. CANCER.
Why or Why not?
________________________________________________

I hope my answers have address both why and why not.

PEACE

Jim Chester

[This message was edited by James Wesley Chester on October 17, 2003 at 10:20 AM.]
DAMN!!! CHESTER!!!

I really appreciate your thorough treatment of those questions!

THank YOU!


I would like to ask one question (for further exploration):
quote:
It is repetition of something we all know is true, and an expense of energy on something we cannot change.


Why do you believe RACISM is something "we cannot change"?

I say that because
[1] I don't base my Racism Eradication Theory on whether or not there will no longer be a racist. My emphasis is on alleviating or removing the systematic exposure to the harmful effects that RACIST INSTITUTIONS have our people and that's all firmly based on what conservatives would call "their" core emphasis - self-help. (I think I take it further than they do... THAT SELF-HELP must be SYSTEMATIC and INSTITUTIONAL.)

[2] Isn't our history of struggle a testament to "changing the unchangeable"... doing the impossible?

So to me speaking about racism, as many of our great ancestors did, is verbalizing it's death with every word because I'm filled with the same FAITH and DETERMINATION they had because they are in me!

So I don't drink from that cup of fatalism. That's exactly, IMO, the false premise that leads to what you have shown in striking detail the role that those who would seemingly ignore racism - by not specifically fighting against it [Black COnservatives, at least from a "liberal's" POV] while "admitting" that it exist are aiding and abetting RACISM by their non-action against it.

(Thanks again!)

"We can be dominated only if we *cooperate* with our dominators."
- Nelson Mandela on "Ghandi: The Sacred Warrior"

(For more see the new HISTORY Forum!)
Watcher, does the Bible tell you as a male to disrespect a person's views? I put the facts out there and gave you Scripture and verse, if you haven't read it according to the facts, then that's on you. Besides, I'm not here to have some black 'MALE' assault my spiritual belief, rather, I was answering the question posed. So I suggest you do as the original poster told you, 'just answer the question' and leave the deciphering of BLACK SPIRITUALITY OF A BLACK MESSIAH TO SELF RESPECTING BLACK PEOPLE WHO KNOW okaaaay?

As for Mandela's comment, well it mustn't be taken out of context and misapplied to the overall situation of blacks. After all, Mandela didn't 'allow himself to be victimized and imprisoned' he didn't have a choice. Nor do blacks with regard to the Caucasoid ruled world we were born in and proclaimed 'enemies of' as long as we are NOT nice, docile, Willie Lynched, bred knee-groes, subservient to whites and calling their 'evil, good.' Well, in fact, that in itself is 'victimization' that is upon them and Mandela's comment would strictly go to their ability to GET FREE FROM SUCH A WARPED, 'VICTIMIZED' MENTALITY.

The reality is this, WE ARE AT WAR WITH WHITE HIERARCHIES WHO INSIST ON KEEPING BLACKS UNDERFOOT. YOU SEE WHITE HIERARCHIES ARE THE ENEMY DECEIVER FOR THEY KNOW THEY COULD NEVER BE OF THE TRUTH LEST THEY BE FORCED TO RELIQUISH CONTROL OF THE RESOURCES OF AFRICA AND THAT WOULD COLLASPE THE WHITE WORLD. AS SO, THEY MUST BREED BLACKS AND THEIR OWN TO SEE THEMSELVES AS CHRIST-LIKE IN SPITE OF THEIR EVIL.

P.S...according to 'computer language' capital letters are a sign of 'shouting.' According to this computer user, 'capital letters' are written for emphasis on a point, and as long as my husband paid for this computer then my 'rule' with regard to computers is what is THE rule.

My Motto?! You may ask. Well here's it in a nutshell, I believe in LOVE/HAPPINESS for all righteous souls. I believe you 'love' 'TRUTH/GOD' so much that you put it out there full force, un-restrained, and in so doing, you bring 'HAPPINESS'....wink!
#1 I didn't disrespect you...I asked the Lord to have mercy on you. It's so obvious that you're misguided...

#2 You're spiritual "beliefs" aren't based upon the Bible. Racism is not a demonic spirit created by whites. Your "beliefs" do not line up with the Bible or Christ, so please refrain from trying to give creditiblity to your rants by associating "your beliefs" with Christ...
Maverick...

I didn't see her show... What did she say?

And I'm not a Black Republican Basher. I don't buy most of that bull and won't let that weak-shit fly, but I can respect anyone that can construct a logically sound argument as to why they believe what they do and have the integrity to be consistent.

I think I despise (is that okay Mr. Chester! lol) unabashed partisanship in any form more than even the most anti-Black Black COnservatives.

*----*----*----*----*----*----*----*----*----*----*----*
S A N K O F A : Return & Fetch It!
Learn from and build on the past. It is not taboo to return and fetch
what you have forgotten. You can always correct what went wrong.
In the past, you find the future and understand the present.
Ahhhhhh!!!!

Watcher??? I awaiting your "independent" thinking on the original question(s). I'd like to get a diversity of thought.

Thank you.
Look some might suppose I made myself a 'victim' of a ignorant knee-gro's 'RANT' on my views. See you become classic exhibit A on how Mandela's comment could not apply to blacks having to deal with white racists and their bred colored beings.

The issue was 'RACISM.' The 'RACISM' WE AS BLACKS STRUGGLE AGAINST was created by WHITES. The Bible does describe, 'hate, evil, murder, lies, stealing, deceiving' as the SPIRIT OF HATE that is what RACISM CREATED BY WHITES IS MADE UP AND IS ALL ABOUT.

Ere go, the Bible is right in its description of such evil as 'DEMONIC OR SATANIC' and I am right in stating the facts that 'WHITE RACISM' is so identified as that which is SATANIC/DEMONIC.

You just spend time learning how to be a man, a intelligent respectful man, fighting the white racists instead of deciphering and criticizing TRUE APPRAISAL of white racism.
Big challenge for you, I well surmise, but that's what changes one from a victim to a victor.

My Motto?! You may ask. Well here's it in a nutshell, I believe in LOVE/HAPPINESS for all righteous souls. I believe you 'love' 'TRUTH/GOD' so much that you put it out there full force, un-restrained, and in so doing, you bring 'HAPPINESS'....wink!

[This message was edited by Prophetessofrage on October 17, 2003 at 09:31 AM.]
For the last time "Prophetess"...white people did not create racism...It's not in the Bible and that's not what Christ teaches...You've been sitting at the feet of men too long.
quote:
white people did not create racism

WHO DID then? (references)
---------------------------------
AND WHAT SOLUTIONS do you free thinking BLACKS, wannabe CONservatives HAVE FOR BLACK PEOPLE IN AMERICA?
Big Grin yeah sho' you right , whites didn't create the racist environment of the U.S., why it just happened by osmosis I suppose one such as you would see it....fool Big Grin

One can hardly suppose your views anything but that of a misguided, vext, soul in as much as we see you are not able to focus enough to so much as ANSWER THE QUESTION like EVERYBODY ELSE DID! And this is the 'intellect' YOU present as smart enough to combat true intelligence, even though you are being more or less IMPLORED TO CONCENTRATE LONG ENOUGH TO PROVE YOU HAVE IT SECRETLY HIDDEN IN THERE SOMEWHERE. Wow, I think the guy feels sorry for ya blatant and obviousl ignorance. Ere go, I rest my case. Whew....Big Grin

My Motto?! You may ask. Well here's it in a nutshell, I believe in LOVE/HAPPINESS for all righteous souls. I believe you 'love' 'TRUTH/GOD' so much that you put it out there full force, un-restrained, and in so doing, you bring 'HAPPINESS'....wink!
"Racism is a demonic spirit created by whites."

VS.

"whites didn't create the racist environment of the U.S...why it just happened by osmosis I suppose one such as you would see it?"

I never said that whites didn't create a racist environment. I did refute your absurd notion that a white man created a demonic spirit called Racism....can you spew that "white devil" stuff somewhere else please? This is a forum for mature thinkers...
I would like to ask one question (for further exploration):
quote:
It is repetition of something we all know is true, and an expense of energy on something we cannot change.


Why do you believe RACISM is something "we cannot change"?
____________________________________________________________________________

RACISM is imbedded in the way the system is designed. It's only hope is that it is ALSO interactive. It is responsive the movement of African Americans in order to maintain its repressive position. Comparable to a wrestler in the "ride" position. Control is maintain by immediate readjustment of position. Control is broken ONLY when the "down" wrestler STANDS UP. It is then that the (former) "ride" wrestler must confront the (former) "down" wrestler eye-to-eye, and from parity. The system is WRESTLING. To succeed, you MUST become proficient in the SYSTEM.

RACISM is not the problem. RACISM is the SYSTEM. WE are the problem in that we have not become proficient in the SYSTEM.
___________________________________________________________________________-

I say that because
[1] I don't base my Racism Eradication Theory on whether or not there will no longer be a racist. My emphasis is on alleviating or removing the systematic exposure to the harmful effects that RACIST INSTITUTIONS have our people and that's all firmly based on what conservatives would call "their" core emphasis - self-help. (I think I take it further than they do... THAT SELF-HELP must be SYSTEMATIC and INSTITUTIONAL.)
____________________________________________________________________________

I agree that you can't focus on whether or not there is a racist. I heartily agree on the effect of institutions. I say only ˜institutions", because most of our institutions are (inherently) racist. It is more that simply intent on their part. The institution MUST by definition be racist in order to serve the community in which they exist. They cannot avoid it. IT'S THE SYSTEM. This is why I am so adamant, not about Multiculturalism per se, but its protocols. Society needs such a system. The methods must change. The methods are the same THE SYSTEM has used forever.

Again, I agree that "self-help" MUST be systematic AND institutional. The only way to explain my point is to reference my focus. As you know, that is ancestral nationality. The SYSTEM keeps ancestral nationality for the dominant, and denies it, prevents it, ignores it for the subdominant. I use "dominant" and "sub-dominant" because the structure applies to all people not European. But, in fact, the SYSTEM is based on "European" and "unknown African ancestry."

THE DAY WE, AS A PEOPLE CLAIM THE REESTABLISHMENT OF AN ANCESTRAL NATIONALITY, THERE WILL BE A "HUSH" IN THE LAND. It will be a new day. It will be the first day of parity for all Americans. For WE are used to "ride"/dominate/control all other non-Europeans. The institutions MUST therefore "adjust" simply to stay eye-to-eye.
____________________________________________________________________________

[2] Isn't our history of struggle a testament to "changing the unchangeable"... doing the impossible?
____________________________________________________________________________

It is a testament, but not to changing the unchangeable. It is a testament to survival. It is a testament to ourselves. We are our own best example of success in a hostile land. But we have great difficulty in recognizing/accepting ourselves as role models. We don't yet seem to see ourselves as "worthy." We will not give to ourselves what we give to all others, without even a question "” the authority of self-identity in the same manner as all other people.
____________________________________________________________________________

So to me speaking about racism, as many of our great ancestors did, is verbalizing it's death with every word because I'm filled with the same FAITH and DETERMINATION they had because they are in me!
____________________________________________________________________________

Speaking out about, and against RACISM is always good/best to do. I keeps us and them alert. But, in the end, it doesn't really change much. My anger about the protocols of Multiculturalism got me nothing in their offices. The day I told them to stop referring to my grandchildren as if their descriptors were their identity, the world changed. Faith and Determination are pieces of the armor we need to survive. They are indeed a major part of who we are, NOT WHAT we are. They have served us well centuries. Because of them, we will ultimately stand eye-to-eye.
____________________________________________________________________________

So I don't drink from that cup of fatalism. That's exactly, IMO, the false premise that leads to what you have shown in striking detail the role that those who would seemingly ignore racism - by not specifically fighting against it [Black COnservatives, at least from a "liberal's" POV] while "admitting" that it exist are aiding and abetting RACISM by their non-action against it.

(Thanks again!)
____________________________________________________________________________

We must slap RACISM in it face every time it raises its ugly head. No rational person of normal intellect can conclude that RACISM doesn't exist. Ignoring RACISM nurtures it.

I am embarrassed that you would "thank" me. However we solve this thing, and it will happen, mutual effort is the ONLY way it can happen.

PEACE

Jim Chester

You are who you say you are. Your children are who you say you are.
quote:
This is a forum for mature thinkers...

AHHHHHH!!!!

I'm still waiting to hear some of your "mature", informed and "independent" thinking...
I am waiting on that mature thinking also...and it damn sure cannot consist of excusing racism as something to accept and live with or denying its origin as it has been implemented towards black people in america......that wouldn't be mature...that would be delusional....
(thx KEV!)
FATALISTIC DELUSION = excusing racism as something to accept and live with

How can you "live" with it?

RACISM: "IT WILL NEVER GO AWAY!"
upset It DAMN SURE WON'T IF YOU SCARED-AZZezz cower like some @&**($% es!

Get out the DAMN WAY for the REAL VANGUARD!
Nmaginate Whoopi said Blacks for Repulicans is like Jews for Jesus. Whoopi's brother in the series said he was a Republican because they freed the slaves to which Whoopi replied that was a long time ago but what have they done for us now. I posted this because black republicans probably think the Democrats prey on black "victim mentality" that is why they support Affirmative Action and Welfare. I could be wrong but I believe that is how most republicans think. I am in no way a republican or a conservative so please correct me if I am wrong.
I think most African Americans are Democrat because their parents were/are Democrat. The Democrat Party become the home of most African Americans left the Republican Party in the 1930s after "Crash of '29" and the resultant Great Depression with the echo of Herbert Hoover promise of "a chicken in every pot and two (not one)cars in every garage." Who had a garage??

We were Republicans not simply because they "freed the slaves" (with the 13th Amendment not the prima facia bogus) Emancipation Proclamation, but because the Democrat Party was the party of slavery/slave owners.

Accusing the Democrats of "preying" on us is disingenuous. We have been volutarily "hugging the party to death" for 70 years.

PEACE

Jim Chester

You are who you say you are. Your children are who you say you are.
Contrary to popular belief, I really give black people more credit than being some herd of sheep who is unaware of the issues. Black people understand the take on issues and outcomes of certain legislative philosohies as they relate to black self-interest. Blacks have the same social realities for the most part, therefore seeing issues related to it the same......
quote:

the SPIRIT OF HATE that is what RACISM CREATED BY WHITES IS MADE UP AND IS ALL ABOUT.
quote:

Prophetessofrage

If one is going to fight an enemy, knowing that enemy greatly improves the chance for success. While "hate" a part of the behavior, it is not what RACISM, the SYSTEM, is composed of. RACISM is all about POWER. It is about control, containment, and usurpation. It is about making what's your's, their's.

They love us to death. Look at the children. All we have to do is be agreeable.

PEACE

Jim Chester

You are who you say you are. Your children are who you say you are.
Kevin41:

I think what you say is true --- for individuals. In the aggregate, however, we (like all others) tend to behave en masse. As an (socio-political) example: "Black" was the conclusion of individuals (Stokely Carmichael, H. Rap Brown, Dick Gregory, and others). They tried to influence the masses, but were unsuccessful. The masses were galvanized by James Brown with "Say It Loud, (I'm Black and I'm Proud)". The change was not the rationale that got the job done. It was the heartfelt "rap" to the soul of a nation. That is what changed the landscape of African America. Everyone, Democrats, amd Republicans alike held their breath to see where the power was going to fall. But it wasn't about power. It was about identity.

I would/do contend that being Democrat, however, was a considered decision by a people who recognized they had been betrayed. We were decades late. We went back to a party that as much our enemy as it was when we aligned (and I do not say joined) ourselves with the Republicans in 1870.

PEACE

Jim Chester

You are who you say you are. Your children are who you say you are.
quote:
While "hate" a part of the behavior, it is not what RACISM, the SYSTEM, is composed of. RACISM is all about POWER. It is about control, containment, and usurpation. It is about making what's your's, their's.

Couldn't agree more, Mr. Chester!

I think we do ourselves a great disservice and, really, let White People off the hook when we keep talking about RACISM in terms of HATE.

What you said highlights what I have come to emphasize. I think we are internalizing and projecting how RACISM feels to us and not what it means...

" What's *HATE* got to do with? "

You can take away that emotion and RACISM will still be there! It's not so much about HATE, maybe that makes it easier for us to understand but then we can't fault White People when they say the same thing to us that we are full of HATE because we seek to 'control'... Of course, we know the difference and the notion of which we speak but that should show us how HATE is the wrong way to try to describe RACISM.

I don't have to "HATE" you to take your shit!
I'll just take it because I want it. Ain't got a damn thing to do with whether I like you per se...

Anyway... GREAT ANALYSIS, Mr. Chester!

[This message was edited by Nmaginate on October 18, 2003 at 09:28 AM.]


[This message was edited by Nmaginate on October 18, 2003 at 09:29 AM.]
First by having the will... AND read what I said!

Be specific as to why you apparently feel it can't be done! It would be helpful if you state you position about it first before we have some silly exercise where all you do is doubt what I have to say.

Simply put... by eliminating the situations, circumstances, and the institutions wherein discrimination occurs. That's not saying it's easy or will happen over night but there is a way. In a word SELF-DETERMINATION.

I could care less whether people like each other racially.
quote:
Originally posted by Mountain:
Nmaginate, how to you 'eradicate' racism? Be specific.


Mountain:

African Americans should not be concerned about eradicating racism. The ability to eradicate racism rests in the hands of those who created racism. That is not our job.

African Americans can however negate the POWER/ABILILTY of racism to affect our lifes.

As the awareness of our ancestral nationality grows questioners like you will experience the futility of coming into our community under the cloak of anonymity to bait, and irritate. I am leaping to that conclusion, because your posts offer the "face of pragmatism", but smells an auful lot like baiting. I conclude that because, if you are as "pragmatic" as you project, how can your intellect conclude that African Americans can "eradicate" a system that Europeans created.

And have the audacity to demand specificity???!!!

PEACE

Jim Chester

You are who you say you are. Your children are who you say you are.

[This message was edited by James Wesley Chester on October 21, 2003 at 03:26 AM.]
Mountain, where are you?

You were given the respect of answer to your question. Would you be so kind as to return that respect with an answer to mine?

PEACE

Jim Chester

You are who you say you are. Your children are who you say you are.
You have to realize that MOUNTAIN is just another on of those W.M.D.'s, W-hite M-eddlin' D-umbaSSes, whose only purpose is do do exactly what you suspect...

The irony is that he actually gave insight into his/their M.O.:

Claiming the "supremacy" of their position by merely proclaiming it to be so - i.e. a position unsupported and/or insufficiently supported by FACTS and/or Reasoning/Logic that is unreasonable & illogical and not based on FACTS.

They simply state their OPINION and when contradicted move to a tangent in attempts to save face. It is they who see this as a competition of Winners and Losers...

All I've asked for is what you have...
IF you ask a question and someone else answers, Intellectual Courtesy obliges the willingness to answer question(s) in return.

Also, simply reveal all relevant facts and logic whereby you arrive at your OPINION... and keep a consistent ideology as well as STAY ON THE TOPIC or item within a topic that's being debated...

The tendency is for THEM to make unfounded aSSertions or use some unqualified cliches' as if the are automatically relevant. And when found in ERROR they sweep it under the rug or worse pretend that they were never wrong (*cough* Sgt.)...

______________________________________________________________________
"The problem many African-Americans have with these [BLACK] "CONservatives" is that they appear to air the problems of the black community to the entire nation without offering any Real Solutions."
Nmaginate:

I was surprised. I've seen posts you've made about his behavior. This the tactic of a racist. That's easy to recognize. He is definitley of no good intent.

This time he helped us instead of hurt us. He delivered a one-sentence demonstration of how the game of RACISM is played. I would guess he somewhere kicking himself. Maybe he's being reprimanded by his leader/mentor.

PEACE

Jim Chester

You are who you say you are. Your children are who you say you are.

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