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I don't want to antagonize anyone in this thread.

I just want people's opinions about the current state of race relations in the US and what, concrete, specific things they want to be different and how, specifically. I'm not going to propose anything at all (in this thread). I just want people to list specific problems that they see, say who is responsible and how. And how the wrongs should be made right.
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quote:
Originally posted by ZeusTKP:
I don't want to antagonize anyone in this thread.

I just want people's opinions about the current state of race relations in the US and what, concrete, specific things they want to be different and how, specifically. I'm not going to propose anything at all (in this thread). I just want people to list specific problems that they see, say who is responsible and how. And how the wrongs should be made right.


I'm not trying to antagonize you ....

but could you please fulfill this list for me?

I want to know what your opinion of current race relations are in the U.S. and if you see white folks as the cause of any antagonism between the two?

If so, what are you going to do about it?

If not, why are you here?

I'm not going to propose anything to you...

I just want you to give me a specific list of atrocities committed against Black folk and where white folk fit in and what you are going to offer to make it right.

K?
The problems African Americans face today is intra-racial rather than between races. Affirmative action and reparations for slavery will do nothing for the drastic increases in gang murder and ignorance. And as far as reparations for slavery are concerned, its time for African Americans to demand from West Africa reparations for their part in the slave trade as well as the catholic church's participation in Brazil!!!
ETA: my first response to this post, if you read it, was messed up because I thought that every other line was a qote, so none of it made sense.

quote:
Originally posted by virtue:
I'm not trying to antagonize you ....


Then don't use ellipses everywhere, please. It seems like you're trailing off, leaving each thought unfinished.

(I'm kidding :P)

quote:
but could you please fulfill this list for me?

I want to know what your opinion of current race relations are in the U.S.


Short version:

Black and white people ran the gamut from liking each other to hating each other. Whites range from neo-nazis to people like Tim Wise. (you can easily google him). Same for black people, except I'm not familiar with any who really like whites that much.

However, it seems to me that there's a lot of white guilt and a lot of black resentment. This culminates in AA and a lot of voluntary AA.

Obviously, I think AA is only hurting everyone. Black people a lot more than white.

Tell me what you want me to elaborate on.

quote:
and if you see white folks as the cause of any antagonism between the two?


Some whites, yes.

quote:
If so, what are you going to do about it?


The only thing that I can do about anything is to vote libertarian. Other than that, I don't know.

quote:
If not, why are you here?


I'm asking black people questions to see what they think and to see how they respond to my arguments.

quote:
I'm not going to propose anything to you...

I just want you to give me a specific list of atrocities committed against Black folk


Slavery, (government) segregation, violence.

quote:
and where white folk fit in


Some white people commited those attrocities.

quote:
and what you are going to offer to make it right.

K?


Me, personally? I think I said this before, but racism is not my top priority. I care about whote opression of minorities in roughly this order: atheists, gays, asians, black/hispanic. But I do care. I do want peace. I think that conflict will hurt both sides. (Your side a lot more)
Last edited {1}
OK Zeus, I will give you some articles which highlight what I think are problems with race relations, and I want you to comment on them and explain what you would do to help change this. Keep in mind that I prefer academic papers and perr-reviewed research, so if I give you data please answer with legitimate data or logic, and not resort to anecdotal evidence. K? Also keep in mind that while I may highlight a choice passage, you need to read the whole article.

Here's the first:
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0DXK/is_18_20/ai_110619175#continue

quote:
African Americans and Hispanics are more likely to experience pain, but less likely to be treated for it, even when they are in a doctor's care. Black folks in nursing homes are 64 percent more likely to do without pain medication than their White counterparts. Hispanics with broken arms or legs were twice as likely as Whites to go without pain medication. Part of the problem is that health care professionals see some patients through a stereotypical lens that colors (pardon the pun) their diagnosis and treatment.

Even when researchers controlled for income, language skills and insurance status, African Americans and other racial and ethnic minorities were under treated for pain across a range of conditions, from cancer and chest pain to post-surgical and lower back pain. Additionally, access to pain care and pain medication varied by race, with pharmacies in the 'hood far less likely to carry narcotic pain medicines.
quote:
Originally posted by ZeusTKP:

Short version:

Black and white people ran the gamut from liking each other to hating each other. Whites range from neo-nazis to people like Tim Wise. (you can easily google him). Same for black people, except I'm not familiar with any who really like whites that much.

However, it seems to me that there's a lot of white guilt and a lot of black resentment. This culminates in AA and a lot of voluntary AA.

Obviously, I think AA is only hurting everyone. Black people a lot more than white.

Tell me what you want me to elaborate on.



Being the blunt one, first of all, why the hell you reduce so-called Race Relations down to the simplistic, emotive terms you used - "like", "HATE" (What Does "Hate" Gotta Do With It?), "guilt", "resentment", "hurt."

Sorry, but there really is no room for an intelligent conversation when your language (and, hence, mentality) of engagement is no more sophisticated than that.

quote:
If so, what are you going to do about it?

The only thing that I can do about anything is to vote libertarian. Other than that, I don't know.

Hmmmm... There's quite a bit of irony with that one. Not only did you talk about and suggest Googling TIM WISE but you followed that non-answer (more like COP-OUT) up with this:

"I'm [here] asking Black People questions to see..."

Yet all you can DO ABOUT IT as it relates to White folks is "vote" and not probe what they think, present arguments to them (ABOUT BETTERING RACE RELATIONS)... "to see how they respond to your arguments."

And then, most underwhelming and revealing, you say: racism is not my top priority.

Okay!

Go play... in this order: atheists, gays, asians, blacks/hispanics


BTW, no one asked you if you cared. And, frankly, no one here cares. The least you can do, to help yourself out, is learn how to cover that stuff up. Your pretenses are so FAKE and your inability to disguise them so poor that you're being spotted from miles away. That's why you feel compelled to say... "I do want peace. ..,conflict will hurt both sides. (Your side a lot more)"

Let us know when you have yourself convinced that that kind of pre-school logic will work for you. I mean, you can keep begging us to believe you, if you want. But, really, there is no such White Privilege here. That stuff doesn't stand and can't stand just because you hope, desperately, that we would buy into what you want us to think (you trying to impress that notion, so hard... so desperately).

LOL!!
quote:
Originally posted by UppityNegress:
OK Zeus, I will give you some articles which highlight what I think are problems with race relations, and I want you to comment on them and explain what you would do to help change this. Keep in mind that I prefer academic papers and perr-reviewed research, so if I give you data please answer with legitimate data or logic, and not resort to anecdotal evidence. K? Also keep in mind that while I may highlight a choice passage, you need to read the whole article.

Here's the first:
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0DXK/is_18_20/ai_110619175#continue

quote:
African Americans and Hispanics are more likely to experience pain, but less likely to be treated for it, even when they are in a doctor's care. Black folks in nursing homes are 64 percent more likely to do without pain medication than their White counterparts. Hispanics with broken arms or legs were twice as likely as Whites to go without pain medication. Part of the problem is that health care professionals see some patients through a stereotypical lens that colors (pardon the pun) their diagnosis and treatment.

Even when researchers controlled for income, language skills and insurance status, African Americans and other racial and ethnic minorities were under treated for pain across a range of conditions, from cancer and chest pain to post-surgical and lower back pain. Additionally, access to pain care and pain medication varied by race, with pharmacies in the 'hood far less likely to carry narcotic pain medicines.


K, I'll read everything that you'll give me. But it will take some time.
quote:
Originally posted by Nmaginate:
Being the blunt one, first of all, why the hell you reduce so-called Race Relations down to the simplistic, emotive terms you used - "like", "HATE" (What Does "Hate" Gotta Do With It?), "guilt", "resentment", "hurt."


That's why it's the short version. I'm sorry that I've offended you with my terse reply to someone else.

quote:
Sorry, but there really is no room for an intelligent conversation when your language (and, hence, mentality) of engagement is no more sophisticated than that.


If you want, I can elaborate on any part. But this is your message board, you're free to just question my "mentality" and not actually reply to anything else.

But let me ask you something: why can't you respond to the actual points and ignore my "mentality"? Why are you so upset?

quote:
Hmmmm... There's quite a bit of irony with that one. Not only did you talk about and suggest Googling TIM WISE but you followed that non-answer (more like COP-OUT) up with this:

"I'm [here] asking Black People questions to see..."

Yet all you can DO ABOUT IT as it relates to White folks is "vote" and not probe what they think, present arguments to them (ABOUT BETTERING RACE RELATIONS)... "to see how they respond to your arguments."


Why don't you give a suggestion about what to do other than voting libertarian?

quote:
BTW, no one asked you if you cared. And, frankly, no one here cares. The least you can do, to help yourself out, is learn how to cover that stuff up. Your pretenses are so FAKE and your inability to disguise them so poor that you're being spotted from miles away.


I have NO pretenses. I have not said a single untruth (intentionally). You are imagining all my supposed pretenses. You don't even bother to confirm any of the beliefs that you make up about me on the spot. You just start ranting.

quote:
That's why you feel compelled to say... "I do want peace. ..,conflict will hurt both sides. (Your side a lot more)"


Obviously I don't want anything to do with blacks who hate whites. I don't hate myself. Smile

quote:
Let us know when you have yourself convinced that that kind of pre-school logic will work for you. I mean, you can keep begging us to believe you, if you want.


Begging you to believe me about WHAT? What do you think that I'm lying about, exactly?

quote:
But, really, there is no such White Privilege here. That stuff doesn't stand and can't stand just because you hope, desperately, that we would buy into what you want us to think (you trying to impress that notion, so hard... so desperately).

LOL!!


You lost me... But you're happy, so no harm done I guess.
quote:
Originally posted by blaqfist:
the race problem is the way it is by design.

the ruling 10% have no intention of "fixing" anything.

it is to their benefit and our collective detriment, that we will perpetually be trying to fix the system and hoping one day we will all "get along"...


So, is there any way to overthrow the top 10%?

For example, what are you, personally, trying to achieve in your life as it relates to your struggle against the top 10%?

Are you trying to enlist any white allies?
quote:
Originally posted by ZeusTKP:

  • I'm sorry that I've offended you with my terse reply to someone else.


  • But let me ask you something: why can't you respond to the actual points and ignore my "mentality"? Why are you so upset?



  • First, your "mentality" comes through and is the essence of your so-called points.

    Second... I've already commented on your odd Language of Engagement and how you reduce everything you don't want to contend with to some disfavorable emotion. Perhaps that's how you think and everything is "Mad", "Happy", "Sad" with you... But, we're way more sophisticated than that here so there is no points that you can raise and certainly no points worth us considering when you insist on such low-brow rhetoric.

    No time for games and frauds. It's just that simple.
    quote:
    Originally posted by Empty Purnata:
    quote:
    Originally posted by ZeusTKP:
    The only thing that I can do about anything is to vote libertarian. Other than that, I don't know.


    So.........what's voting Libertarian going to do? What plans do they have for the Black Community?


    Yeah, I've gotta agree with this quote. At the minimum I'd say that the politics of this thing should let us know not to think any one group is completely for us or completely against us (even us, ala Clarence Thomas).

    There's a beautiful verse in Proverbs where it says to judge a man by his actions not by his words. And if we are to seek change through politics, we (Black America) should pay much MUCH more attention to what people have actually done, instead of just those 30 second ads they put up when its time to vote.
    I, myself am not a big fan of using politics as the primary means to change things in the Black Community.

    If we make a mistake and elect the wrong guy, I don't want to have to wait 2, 4 or 6 years before we can do anything about it. And I dont want this wrong guy we elect to come into office and undo all the good that a good guy does.

    I stand by the African proverb that 'it takes a village to raise a child.' Today, that village has become the people on MTV, BET, and at Nintendo, Sega, and Sony. Thats not a village that cares a lot about our community. So whats the result? We have so many people in our community that don't care about our community, except when they get pulled over by the cops and want to scream about Driving While Black.

    Sean Taylor got arrested in Miami and his sentence was that he had to GIVE MOTIVATIONAL TALKS AT SOME LOCAL HIGH SCHOOLS. This is something we should all be doing without a second thought. And I don't mean the once a year talk, "Life is hard, But you're somebody, Lets eat pizza". I mean, stuff like tutors (especially tutors for atheletes), Big brothers and big sisters, or even taking a role up with the youth in church.

    Because if we're going to change Black America, We'd better make sure we change the minds of the youth too, else they'll be asking this same question in 30 years.
    quote:
    Originally posted by Nmaginate:
    First, your "mentality" comes through and is the essence of your so-called points.

    Second... I've already commented on your odd Language of Engagement and how you reduce everything you don't want to contend with to some disfavorable emotion. Perhaps that's how you think and everything is "Mad", "Happy", "Sad" with you... But, we're way more sophisticated than that here so there is no points that you can raise and certainly no points worth us considering when you insist on such low-brow rhetoric.


    You're too good to speak to me? You're too "sophisticated" to answer simple questions?

    If I'm such a low-brow simpleton, shouldn't you be the one to accommodate my peculiarities?

    I only know two languages, Russian and English. I'm assuming that you'd be more comfortable speaking English. So that's the only way I know how to communicate with you.

    If you're too proud to even tell me what I'm saying that's so offensive, then I guess there's no hope for us.

    quote:
    No time for games and frauds. It's just that simple.


    Seriously, the only other place where I've been accused of lying so much but without anyone telling me what I'm lying about was on freeconservatives.com . I actually expected it wouldn't be so bad here. (It's not, but it's close. And you can read my threads there if you want. I posted as Nightshade)
    quote:
    Originally posted by ZeusTKP:

    You're too good to speak to me? You're too "sophisticated" to answer simple questions?



    Clearly, what I've said is that your terms are to SIMPLE-MINDED, ignorant and something unacceptable. Again, when you reduce things down to those simple and simply ignorant terms... THERE IS NOTHING TO TALK ABOUT. You're obviously not ready and, considering your Baiting & Framing ISSUES, not at all genuine.

    Circle JERKS are not us.

    quote:

    If I'm such a low-brow simpleton, shouldn't you be the one to accommodate my peculiarities?


    No. You should not be so pathetic as to think you can beg your way to relevance.

    LESSON #1: Do not rely (so) heavily on Rhetorical Questions which essentially beg people who aren't stupid enough to fall for your ignorant framing to fall for your ignorant framing.

    I'm sure you know what a Rhetorical Question is and how they are problematic, especially when you're hoping... begging for someone to buy into the way you FRAME things. You can patronize and try your best to come up with your best reverse-psychology or whatever you call what you think you're doing but none of that BS is going to work.

    You have to become more sophisticated than what you are. Elevate Your Discourse.
    "Hate", "Angry", "Upset", "Happy"... all those emotive terms and Non-Starters. ELEVATE YOUR DISCOURSE and your $$$ will follow.

    quote:

    I only know two languages, Russian and English. I'm assuming that you'd be more comfortable speaking English. So that's the only way I know how to communicate with you.


    You can communicate and engage this discussion YOU want to have... (repeating) YOU WANT TO HAVE by use a Language Of Engagement that's more sophisticated. Plain and simple. That you use or otherwise feel such low-brow words like "angry", "guilt", "resentment", "hate" are fitting, descriptive or effective ways of communicating your ideas - effective in properly assessing the situation or effective in getting the debate/discussion YOU WANT... well, that's a product of your inability to understand How To Communicate... effectively.

    You better learn how to Code Switch or something.

    quote:
    If you're too proud to even tell me what I'm saying that's so offensive...


    There you go again. Sorry. Must be more sophisticated. AVOID EXTREMES. That's LESSON #2.

    TOO proud... SO offensive... Get a freakin' clue. I am not fazed. Don't know about you.
    ELEVATE YOUR DISCOURSE.


    quote:
    Seriously, the only other place where I've been accused of lying so much but without anyone telling me what I'm lying about was on freeconservatives.com . I actually expected it wouldn't be so bad here. (It's not, but it's close. And you can read my threads there if you want. I posted as Nightshade)


    Yada... Yada... You have been told how you are a FRAUD as it relates to your professed intentions. Your phony pretenses.

    LYING, you said:
    I just want people's opinions about the current state of race relations in the US

    TRUTH: I'm asking black people questions to see what they think and to see how they respond to my arguments.

    That's in complete contradiction to your declared pretense that you would not... propose anything at all.
    Once again, those Absolutes/EXTREME terms ("at ALL") are a dead giveaway. But you can tell me how someone can "respond to your arguments" if you don't "propose" or make any such arguments per your phony pretense that you "just want to hear people's opinions" with no comments (read: arguments, pro or con) from you.


    Like I said... NO TIME FOR GAMES & FRAUDS.

    ELEVATE YOUR DISCOURSE and do something about your "peculiarities." Because these "strange" (and SEE THROUGH) tactics of yours will never profit you. If you have a legitimate, genuine purpose... use legitimate and genuine terms.

    That's LESSON #3.
    quote:
    Do not rely (so) heavily on Rhetorical Questions which essentially beg people who aren't stupid enough to fall for your ignorant framing to fall for your ignorant framing.


    OK. I won't use rhetorical questions.

    quote:
    "Hate", "Angry", "Upset", "Happy"... all those emotive terms and Non-Starters


    I won't use those terms.

    quote:
    AVOID EXTREMES


    OK.



    Anything else?
    quote:
    Originally posted by Nmaginate:
    LYING, you said:
    I just want people's opinions about the current state of race relations in the US

    TRUTH: I'm asking black people questions to see what they think and to see how they respond to my arguments.


    Virtue asked me:
    "why are you here?"

    I thought he/she meant "why am I on this message board" not "why am I in this thread"

    I was not lying. Do you believe me?
    quote:
    Originally posted by ZeusTKP:
    quote:

    I want to know what your opinion of current race relations are in the U.S. and if you see white folks as the cause of any antagonism between the two? If so, what are you going to do about it? ...and where white folk fit in.


    Some whites, yes.

    The only thing that I can do about anything is to vote libertarian. Other than that, I don't know.

    ...racism is not my top priority.
    ...I do want peace.



    First of all, your very presence here, even in the mode and manner you come here betrays what you claim as "the only thing you can do." I already laid out why that is a COP OUT.

    Indeed, since you've come he with your expressed and somewhat undisclosed intent, this dubious "I COME IN PEACE" nonsense... you have indicated one thing that you are capable of doing even in this same medium among White-oriented message board and forums.

    If you "want peace" then you want that on all sides especially if this COLORBLIND pretense of yours is legit. You should have no problems and shouldn't have to be provoked to take this same approach with Whites in White-oriented forums.

    So, your "the only thing I can do" statement is effectively a LIE. You're here trying to "see how people respond to your arguments", saying all this lame things to try to impress your points and convince us to accept your (non)arguments... Well, if you're genuine you can do that else were two.

    The pretense that you are here to basically call a TRUCE means that you want act as a mediator. Well, mediate. The same thing you do here... Do it over 'there' amongst White folk. Matter of fact, your communication skills and the ease of communication there would likely be a more productive use of your time. GOOGLE. READ. Tim Wise.

    Given how you failed miserably in that area (not even showing a pulse when I challenged you earlier: "suggestion other than voting Libertarian" LOL!), it clear your ColorBLINDNESS made it hard for you to see "where white folks fit in" in this TRUCE thing and, as such, too hard for you to articulate "where white folk fit in" in terms of their role in bring about this "PEACE."

    THERE is NO Peace Without JUSTICE. And if you're not speaking that language then you're wasting your time. You won't be setting the terms here, my friend.
    Last edited {1}
    quote:
    Originally posted by ZeusTKP:

    I thought he/she meant "why am I on this message board" not "why am I in this thread"


    That's relevant how?

    Someone genuinely wanting "PEACE", again, is not about probing for info. as a way to manipulate their "arguments." A commitment to PEACE is the antithesis to having "arguments", as you put it.

    That's not restricted to this thread.

    Wanting "PEACE" and wanting to present your "ARGUMENTS" are Conflicting Terms.

    quote:
    Originally posted by ZeusTKP:

    Anything else?


    Yes. First, my Tutoring FEES... Due upon receipt of LESSONS. You're already late with your payments.

    Seriously though, saying "...racism is not my top priority"... Well, let's just say that that won't get you anywhere and is a clear indication of your insincerity.
    quote:
    Originally posted by Nmaginate:
    First of all, your very presence here, even in the mode and manner you come here betrays what you claim as "the only thing you can do." I already laid out why that is a COP OUT.


    Cop out from what? The word "realistically" was implied in that sentence. If I didn't have to go to work every day, then I could go around campaigning and not JUST vote.

    quote:
    Indeed, since you've come he with your expressed and somewhat undisclosed intent,


    What, in plain English, do you think that my intent is? In your own words, why do you think that I am here?

    quote:
    this dubious "I COME IN PEACE" nonsense... you have indicated one thing that you are capable of doing even in this same medium among White-oriented message board and forums.

    If you "want peace" then you want that on all sides especially if this COLORBLIND pretense of yours is legit. You should have no problems and shouldn't have to be provoked to take this same approach with Whites in White-oriented forums.


    What? What do "white" message boards have to do with anything? I posted the same stuff there. Then I posted here.

    quote:
    So, your "the only thing I can do" statement is effectively a LIE.


    OK, I take it back. The only thing I'm going to do in the near future is vote, but I can do more, but I'm not going to. Not right now.

    quote:
    You're here trying to "see how people respond to your arguments", saying all this lame things to try to impress your points and convince us to accept your (non)arguments... Well, if you're genuine you can do that else were two.


    What?

    quote:
    The pretense that you are here to basically call a TRUCE means that you want act as a mediator. Well, mediate. The same thing you do here... Do it over 'there' amongst White folk. Matter of fact, your communication skills and the ease of communication there would likely be a more productive use of your time. GOOGLE. READ. Tim Wise.


    Why would I want to talk to white people only?

    And what white people DO you talk to, if not me?

    I've read about Time Wise. I don't agree with him. What about him?

    quote:
    Given how you failed miserably in that area (not even showing a pulse when I challenged you earlier: "suggestion other than voting Libertarian" LOL!), it clear your ColorBLINDNESS made it hard for you to see "where white folks fit in" in this TRUCE thing and, as such, too hard for you to articulate "where white folk fit in" in terms of their role in bring about this "PEACE."

    THERE is NO Peace Without JUSTICE. And if you're not speaking that language then you're wasting your time. You won't be setting the terms here, my friend.


    Fine! What would be the JUST reparations for slavery? What must be done so that JUSTICE is served?
    quote:
    Originally posted by Nmaginate:

    That's relevant how?


    You said I was lying in the OP...

    quote:
    Someone genuinely wanting "PEACE", again, is not about probing for info. as a way to manipulate their "arguments." A commitment to PEACE is the antithesis to having "arguments", as you put it.


    What do you call when the generals of two armies meet on the field and negotiate a peace treaty? Can we do that, or do you want an unconditional surrender on my part?

    quote:
    That's not restricted to this thread.

    Wanting "PEACE" and wanting to present your "ARGUMENTS" are Conflicting Terms.


    See above.

    quote:
    Yes. First, my Tutoring FEES... Due upon receipt of LESSONS. You're already late with your payments.

    Seriously though, saying "...racism is not my top priority"... Well, let's just say that that won't get you anywhere and is a clear indication of your insincerity.


    I should have LIED and said that racism is my upmost priority. That way you wouldn't call me insincere for simply being honest.

    I care about stopping the Iraq war more than I care about race relations. Does that mean that you and I cannot talk about race relations?

    And then, if I honestly tell you that race relations are not my top priority, you take it personally for some reason.
    quote:
    Originally posted by ZeusTKP:

    What, in plain English, do you think that my intent is? In your own words, why do you think that I am here?



    You intent is what you've said. You're here trying to make arguments. That, again, is the Antithesis of MAKING PEACE.

    You have not come here in PEACE. You've come here trying to assert White Supremacy. That's your argument. That it be preserved.

    quote:
    What do "white" message boards have to do with anything? I posted the same stuff there. Then I posted here.


    It has everything to do with how you "where white folk fit in" this thing as you see it. And if you posted the "same stuff" then obviously you didn't engage Whites the same way.

    Speaking of things IMPLIED... Essentially, I said you should be just as quick to:

    probe what Whites think, present arguments to them (ABOUT BETTERING RACE RELATIONS)... "to see how they respond to your arguments."

    And, again, if you're posting "the same stuff" there, making the same arguments there (anti-anti-discrimination, "reparations?", etc.) then you are not taking the same approach and damn sure not MEDIATING a Truce or PEACE.

    quote:
    OK, I take it back. The only thing I'm going to do in the near future is vote, but I can do more, but I'm not going to. Not right now.


    Thank you for dismissing yourself. Been nice talking to you.

    quote:
    Why would I want to talk to white people only?


    Because RACISM is a WHITE PROBLEM. I already mentioned the ease of communication. Hopefully, not nearly as much will be lost in the translation. And this ignorant FRAMING of yours ("white people only") is CASE IN POINT. Nowhere did I say "talk to Whites ONLY." I said your presented yourself as some sort of a MEDIATOR so you should MEDIATE and apply your skills where they are most or MORE effective - useful.

    Also, feigning concern about RACE RELATIONS without addressing, considering the context of the relationships, the POWER RELATIONSHIPS and the INEQUALITY of them (Whites hold more power; therefore, more emphasis should be placed there)... Well, that's why there is plenty of work for you to do AMONGST WHITES themselves.

    quote:
    And what white people DO you talk to, if not me?


    RELEVANCE? That has nothing to do with anything here. This is about you and your "Come In Peace" campaign.

    quote:
    I've read about Time Wise. I don't agree with him. What about him?


    You mentioned him and claim to have read him... Then you should know very well "what about him" and his positions which apply here.

    quote:
    Fine! What would be the JUST reparations for slavery? What must be done so that JUSTICE is served?


    ELEVATE YOUR DISCOURSE. If you can ask the questions then you can find the foundation for the answer all on your own. That's if your intentions for PEACE are legit. You don't want PEACE. You want White Supremacy to be preserved. Perpetuated. That's why you favor the illogical ColorBLINDness. Colorblindness keeps White Supremacy intact.

    You want peace. Dismantle White Supremacy even in your Discourse (your Language of Engagement) and your approach to RACE RELATIONS. Don't just say "the same stuff" in White and Black settings... Commit to the same approach. Be a real MEDIATOR. Not a one-sided, self-serving one.

    You have the human capacity to understand JUSTICE. No one should have to spoon feed it to you. That you have such an aversion to JUSTICE and would rather have 'PEACE' (with that odd implication that you perceive or feel some type of personal dis-ease or lack of tranquility) shows that you have not acquired the Language Skills (be it comprehension or articulating ideas) necessary to ENGAGE.

    I'm afraid you have a ways to go before you can even be ready to engage in a conversation about Reparations and Justice. You're concerned about your arguments and not JUSTICE or PEACE.

    Sorry. No time for that.

    Acquire (through self-study and self-criticism) both a meaningful and accessible Language of Engagement then get back with me.
    quote:
    Originally posted by ZeusTKP:

    What do you call when the generals of two armies meet on the field and negotiate a peace treaty?



    Poor language skills. How you have come to see this as two warring factions or armies is beyond me and any honest consideration of history and reality.

    I call that whole idea FRAUDULENT. Clearly off-base, ahistorical and DECONTEXTUALIZED, to say the least.

    quote:
    Originally posted by ZeusTKP:

    Can we do that, or do you want an unconditional surrender on my part?


    Huh? What are you talking about? First explain, IN CONTEXT, how it is you feel and how you can fix your mouth to suggest that this is a "war" of sorts where there have been attacks on both sides.

    What part of Slavery was a "war" where generals on both sides waged war? What part of Segregation? Currently... Who is waging this RACE WAR? How?

    Anti-discrimination laws were authored and passed by White legislators. Your racial angst, then, is misdirected.

    But, going with your analogy... When those two generals come together to negoitate, they had better worked things out with their own army first.

    quote:
    I should have LIED and said that racism is my upmost priority. That way you wouldn't call me insincere for simply being honest.


    You're insincere regardless and claiming that it is your "upmost priority" while still holding your PEACE Above JUSTICE position would solidify that in any case.

    Simply, there was no need "to be honest." Frankly, that wasn't relevant or, rather, that wasn't a genuine answer to the question.

    VIRTUE asked you:
    I just want you to give me a specific list of atrocities committed against Black folk and where white folk fit in and what you are going to offer to make it right.

    Your statement essentially said that you had nothing to offer. That you didn't care much about "making it right." You come here to this Black forum to talk Black/White RACE RELATIONS to say "I care about whote opression of minorities in roughly this order: atheists, gays, asians, black/hispanic."

    Note how Blacks tied for last in your own Priority List. Yet you want to be perceived as someone who does "care" (like someone here asked you to) and someone who wants "peace".

    I mean, what more do I have to say? What part of the problems in your own thinking in terms of being received as an honest, genuine "PEACE" broker don't you get?

    Okay... (back to the war scenario)... Let's do it like this:

    VIRTUE asked you to publish a specific list of atrocities committed against Black folk. Well, for your war-generals-peace analogy to work:

    LIST THE ATROCITIES BLACK FOLKS COMMITTED AGAINST WHITES.


    Confront the White Supremacy in your discourse.
    quote:
    Originally posted by ZeusTKP:

    And then, if I honestly tell you that race relations are not my top priority, you take it personally for some reason.



    More LANGUAGE and PROJECTIONS issues with you.

    You made RACE RELATIONS your Top Priority, something ALL important for you to talk about here with me(us). I readily dismissed you and your quest for this conversation (on your terms) as unimportant.

    I took none of that personally. But you did.
    Zeus,

    I promised that I would not re-enter this discussion, but I read your last response to Kweli, in the Race Relations thread... and have decided to change my mind for the moment...

    Here is your response to Kweli:

    quote:
    Yes, thank you very much. If you can do so again, we'll practically have a discussion. Maybe soon you won't even feel the need to hurl insults.


    May I ask, since you are eager for peaceable discussion with us, how are you prepared to change your discourse, if anyone on this board is insulted by you?
    quote:
    Originally posted by virtue:
    Zeus,

    I promised that I would not re-enter this discussion, but I read your last response to Kweli, in the Race Relations thread... and have decided to change my mind for the moment...

    Here is your response to Kweli:

    quote:
    Yes, thank you very much. If you can do so again, we'll practically have a discussion. Maybe soon you won't even feel the need to hurl insults.


    May I ask, since you are eager for peaceable discussion with us, how are you prepared to change your discourse, if anyone on this board is insulted by you?


    If I'm insulting someone by certain words, I won't use those particular words. For example, if someone doesn't like it if I call them black instead of African American, I'll be happy to use whatever words they want me to.

    Basically, anything that's not directly related to the topic of meaning of a question, I'll drop.

    I tend to use hyperbolies and rhetorical questions. I know this about myself. Sometimes it comes out insulting. I try not to do that, but I slip up. But I'm always happy to re-phrase anything I said.

    Basically, if anything I say is insulting, I'll be happy to apologize and re-phrase it in a non-insulting way.

    If any topics are taboo (like talking about AA and reparations at the same time) I won't talk about them, but someone needs to tell me so.



    The most important part is that I'm told specifically what's offensive even if it seems completely obvious to you. (I'm afraid that even making this request will be considered a "demand" and thus offensive Frown)
    quote:
    Originally posted by Nmaginate:
    Dude, your quibbling over me highlighting your "low-brow" terms complicates this claim.

    I told you you were insulting my intelligence with that Ignorant and ridiculous Reductionist FRAMING.


    wait a second. what, exactly, is wrong with reductionism? Is that philoshophy offensive to you?

    Can we go back to the first post where I did this and just talk about how to make that post not offensive? Or is it offensive for me to ask to do this? Is THIS post reductionist??? If it is, then I don't see how I can ever not be reductionist.

    Also, if you will never believe me that I'm not trying to purposefully be offensive, then I will always seem offensive to you. True?
    Last edited {1}
    quote:
    Originally posted by ZeusTKP:

    Also, if you will never believe me that I'm not trying to purposefully be offensive, then I will always seem offensive to you. True?


    Stop begging and trying to sweeten your low-brow BS up.

    ELEVATE YOUR DISCOURSE.

    That, by definition, eliminates your ALWAYS rhetoric.

    What part of this did you forget?
    AVOID EXTREMES (aka using Absolutes)
    quote:
    Originally posted by Nmaginate:
    Stop begging and trying to sweeten your low-brow BS up.

    ELEVATE YOUR DISCOURSE.

    That, by definition, eliminates your ALWAYS rhetoric.

    What part of this did you forget?
    AVOID EXTREMES (aka using Absolutes)


    I'm sorry for using absolutes.

    Can you answer my question though. Do you find a reductionist way of thinking inherrently offensive?
    quote:
    Originally posted by ZeusTKP:

    Can you answer my question though. Do you find a reductionist way of thinking inherrently offensive?



    I already told you... I find it too simple-minded. Incredibly so. And it's dishonest too.

    And I know I wasn't talking about philosophical Reductionism. I was, however, talking about your dullard's approach to reducing serious issues to petty, even sinister emotions held by your virtual opponents as a ploy for you to dismiss their positions up to and including the validity of their positions.

    Pretty transparent game, really. Associate your opponent with a negative motive or some type of disfavorable disposition (e.g., "resentment") and you don't have to deal with the issues they raise.
    Last edited {1}

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