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I can remember the first time I was confronted with the insipid idea that I wasn't black enough. The fall of 1990 was my senior year in high school and I had enjoyed years of friendships with classmates of all races, religions and creeds.

Halloween was always celebrated at my school by wearing the most outlandish costume allowed. Unfortunately, on that day of the 31st a white student decided he would come to school dressed as Jimi Hendrix"”a big black fro, a guitar strapped around his back, flared bell bottoms, and brown shoe polish smudged all over his face. The stunt had infuriated an already irate black student body that was already convinced they were being unfairly treated at this predominately white school.

The following day, all of the black students came to the bus stop dressed in black from head to toe"”ready to protest. On the way to school one of the students on my bus turned to me and asked: "Hey man why ain't you wearin' no black?" I looked squarely in his eyes and said: "My skin is black and I wear it everyday"”that's enough for me." He poked his lips out and rolled his eyes as he turned back around to the other students clad in black and planned and plotted who they were going to take out once we reached the campus.

Another student that was sitting in the very back of the bus (how ironic) scornfully yelled: "Hey man don't say nothin' to him cause he ain't black anyway! He a wannabe!" The following day a mob of black students proceeded to triple team the teachers and unmercifully beat down white students at random. Some of the white students had already anticipated the riot and they responded by spraying a cloud of pepper spray, temporarily blinding many students and teachers.

The principal was stabbed with a fork out of the lunchroom, and the shop teacher retaliated by running out to his truck to retrieve his revolver. He fired a shot in the air, thinking the shot would startle the mob of students and stop the fighting. Unfortunately, firing the gun only served in the shop teacher's termination.

The High School was closed for two days while the administration planned their retaliation. A list of black male students that were involved in the riot was quickly generated and those students were expelled. They had to finish the remainder of their senior year exiled from the county and attended the neighboring high schools in the city system--condemned not to walk with their graduating class--friends that they had gone to school with, some, for 12 years, all due to ignorance and stupidity.

The morning of the first day back to school the students were on the bus celebrating the pseudo-martyrdom of the students that were expelled and congratulating the ones that had somehow evaded expulsion.

While on the bus back home from school a group of students criticized me for not being involved in the beat down. I was angry and ashamed, not because I was being ostracized, and not because I didn't participate in the riot but because sitting right behind me was a brother sitting proudly with his white girlfriend. I was outraged that no one had even said anything to the interracial couple as they coddled each other.

How could this brother be amongst us pawing his white girlfriend and go unpunished? He was immune to ridicule because he was a part of the clique, the in crowd, and a multi-talented athlete. He was a star on the wrestling team and the football team.

Not only was he worshiped but he was also feared because he was the biggest black athlete in the school. Nevertheless, he went beyond mere friendship with whites to the point of intimacy, a feat I had never attempted yet I was an outcast all the same. The white principal that was stabbed with a fork took early retirement and was replaced with a black principal that systematically expelled the remainder of the black male students that were involved in the riot, as well as further darkening the spirit of the remainder of the black student body with an iron fist.

Incidentally, the black principal reminds me of what Bull Connor and the Birmingham police did during the Birmingham riots. The K-9 unit had a big black German Shepard--it's name was Nigger. Whenever they would go after a crowd of teenage black protesters, they would unleash the big black German Shepard, saying, "Go git em,' Nigger!!"

I encountered the same type of reverse discrimination in college where I was insatiably active as a chairperson in the collegiate chapter of the NAACP and the African American Association. The same black students that ostracized me for not being black enough were the same students that evaded the responsibility of being consciously involved with the African American Association and the NAACP, the only two black organizations on campus that worked tirelessly in solving issues regarding how black students are treated on campus academically and socially, and providing black oriented entertainment and speakers for the black student body.

Many of these students that were members of the NAACP and the AAA, many that considered themselves to be ˜black,' never participated in the meetings that needed to be held to plan the logistics of each organization's endeavors to improve black college life, unless the AAA or NAACP was holding a block party (FREE PIZZA!) or sponsoring a concert for acts like Queen Latifah or Biggie Smalls.

The greeks on campus fell all over themselves, trying to make sure their frat or sorority letters were on our organizational t-shirts that I designed but they never showed up to our meetings or supported any of our functions.

Various students, that weren't members of the AAA or NAACP, didn't mind showing up to our doorstep to gripe and complain about discrimination experienced by certain professors, particularly, in the English department, which I personally rectified through a meeting with the President of the University.

Some of the members of the NAACP and AAA griped and complained about not having enough entertainment but when the footwork was needed to advertise for a Biggy Smalls concert, the turnout was so meek because we didn't have enough manpower to get enough flyers out, there wasn't enough money to pay Biggie and he, in turn, beat down the promotor of the show. This discussion, a mere glimpse into my life as a young black man, is a response to a review written by, Dutch Martin, on John McWhorter's book, "Losing the Race."
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Copied from another thread (for our friend with Acute Identity Disturbance Syndrome - AIDS):

quote:
I think you misinterpret the term Black[ness]. What's your interpretation of 'blackness'? -- HERUSTAR

What exact[ly] makes the "behavior" of a person who is Black a descriptive and definitive idea of what the concept of "Blackness" is? -- NMAG~
IronHorse, you have introduced us with these identity themes wherein you talked about Unnecessary Blackness citing not only the Mindless Chris Rock "There's Black folk, and then there's Niggers" but, perhaps, the equally mindless (or confused) "The End of Blackness". Now, you have so graciously brought us this idea of Pseudo-Blackness.

Considering this obvious Indentity Crisis you're in, please explain to us what you think Blackness is or, at least to make your feel comfortable... what it should be.

I mean, your quoting/referencing such Grand Enigmatics like McWhorter and Debra Dickerson really explains the Indentity Crisis you seem to be having but we just can't get the essence of what's troubling you if your don't present what you think is a functional definition of "Blackness".

Since we like anecdotes, in my college years, my Black cultural organization put on a very rich variety show that I titled, The Beauty Of Blackness. I even wrote a song-poem for it.

That aside, while I see Debra as CONFUSED, I don't question her "Blackness" or rather her sense of commitment. And, no matter how I may disagree with McWhorter, I respect his right to talk about Losing The Race or what-have-you and prefer to have his critiques. In fact, I used a theme from one of his books on a recent thread of mine where I asked "Who Is Authentically Black?" I think Faheem laid out a pretty fair distinction.

Anyway, I really do hope you resolve these Indentity Issues you're having. I'm sure there are a number of us who would appreciate that too. That or a real substantive exploration of What It Means To Be "Black" in 2005+? and/or What Is The Essence Of BLACKNESS?

You do know that the idea of BLACKNESS (the term, the conceptual origin) came from them Afrocentric types. Don't you? Well, don't you?

From Garvey to the many leaders, groups and organizations in the Civil Rights/Black Power Movement, we even had Principles Of Blackness laid out.

So, since its your perogative and preoccupation, please grace us with your rendition and exhibition into The Contours Of Blackness.

Thank you. Thank you very much. tfro
Sometimes it pays to travel alone. Good for you IRONHORSE, in that you did not follow the crowd. Instead, you used your own good judgment.

Consequences for Assault and Battery in California. All other states have the same or similar penalties for the crime of assault and battery on a person!

These days, intentionally assaulting anyone who has not harmed you in any way can lead to misdemeanor or felony criminal indictment, or a civil lawsuit for damages.

In the event a minor commits a crime against the property, possessions, etc., of any adult, any business entity, be it public or private, depending on the circumstances, any victim can file a civil claim against the minor's parents.


Psuedo-blackness tendencies can ruin your future, are indeed sleazy and treasonous, and there is absolutely nothing worthwhile that can be said for such activity!

....that Black athlete's services are only good as long as the school team in winning. It is certain had his usefulness been used up, his Caucasian girl friend, and Caucasian associates would have separated themselves from this individual, in a "New York Minute".

...as far as the NAACP, SCLC, PUSH, the Urban League, that so-called Black Nationalist movement, many of the leadership of these organizations are as phony as phony can get!

I'm one individual who can relate to your message.

Thanks for sharing,

Michael Lofton
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To my greatest fan: Nmaginate

Like I told you before, follower, I will give you my definition of "blackness" when I'm good and damn ready or have you already forgotten, within 4 hours, that I have 28 days to respond to your childish rants?

If you want to blame anyone, blame yourself--if you had acted like a man instead of a boy--arguing and cursing everyday day and night for 28 days, while knowing you didn't have a clue as to what to do with reparations, you wouldn't be caught up in the same grace period as you put me in--waiting for nearly a damn month for you to finally come up with your answer of what to do with reparations--I'm not going to let you slide that easily, sucker.

I know you have ADHD but you're just going to have to wait--due to your insolence, I'm going to make you wait.
quote:
...as far as the NAACP, SCLC, PUSH, the Urban League, that so-called Black Nationalist movement, many of the leadership of these organizations are as phony as phony can get!--Michael


Well, Michael, as a chairman in the collegiate chapter of the NAACP, we didn't have any direct connection to the actual NAACP as a branch of sorts--we more or less dealt with the concerns and issues of black college students at that university. Unfortunately, even the leadership of that college organization was rather biased and unecessarily arrogant, which was eventually that organization's demise--I ended up having to sue that particular collegiate chapter of the NAACP, through legal advice from a volunteer law service, which was run by white law students (Damn).

I had to draft a letter and send it to them--asking for the return of the two dozen t-shirts, with my logo design on them, because they refused to pay me for the logo I designed for their t-shirts, after a verbal agreement was already made for payment of the design.

They ended up having to surrender the two dozen t-shirts they had printed up, which I later sold.

By the way, that black athelete, as well as half those kids that were so black and proud, didn't amount to anything in the long run, and that black athelete's dad cuts my mom's yard--another brother from my high school, from that same crowd, didn't amount to much either after high school--he details my car--talk about making an enemy your foot stool.
quote:
Considering this obvious Indentity Crisis you're in, please explain to us what you think Blackness is or, at least to make your feel comfortable... what it should be. --Nmaginate


Like I said before, Nmaginate, I'm going to make you wait. You can act the fool all you want, thinking you can coerce me into making my response--you may have fallen for my coerciveness but I will never fall for yours--you can't play a player.

Even though it would be a waste of time because you're off in your dilusional world thinking there's some kind of edifying, godly, ostentatious, righteous, pious definition of blackness I will still offer an opinion of the difference between being 'black' and being a 'nigger' when I'm good and damn ready.
IRONHORSE,

I know it is not your doing at all, but rather the people at the upper management level of the NAACP have been deceitful, greedy, and sleazy for years.

....and the ring leaders in a Kweise Mfume, etc., etc., have been mismanaging, stealing, playing games, etc., to which millions in charitable donations have no explanation or accounting as to where the funds ended up!

Kweisi Mfume more than likely had to make use of some of the millions squandered to pay out child support, alimony, etc., to any one of several of his mistresses, and illegitimate children!

The Disgrace of Kweisi Mfume

*************************

An organization is only as good as its leadership. When the leadership is in the toilet, this destroys the credibility of the entire organization.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton
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quote:
Frown I will still offer an opinion of the difference between being 'black' and being a 'nigger' when I'm good and damn ready. Frown


What are you crying for?

when I'm good and damn ready
when I'm good and damn ready
when I'm good and damn ready

Damn!! Dude, you got issues.
You can say that shit all you want.
But, like I said (and as it is obvious):
THAT CHRIS ROCK SHIT WILL GET YOUR FEELINGS HURT...

Now look at? Eek
Crying like a little B**CH!!

when I'm good and damn ready
when I'm good and damn ready
when I'm good and damn ready

sleep

(Oh, BTW, I guess we have to wait on an OPINION About The Difference... All you made was a statement saying there was a difference. There's a BIG.... DIFFERENCE! LMAO!)
quote:
(Oh, BTW, I guess we have to wait on an OPINION About The Difference... All you made was a statement saying there was a difference. There's a BIG.... DIFFERENCE! LMAO!)


Still won't work, sucker. Save the pony ride and your other amusement park attractions for somebody with a weak mind. As far as this "statement" and "opinion" thing, you made that shit up yourself, Jr. Go copy and paste a quote where I said this is a "statement."

I'm even going to help you a bit--go back and research where I first began the discussion, "Unecessary Blackness," read the thread and see what is determinded from that thread.
*Checking my watch*

Yep, still 28 days and counting.

Still 28 days that you wasted cussing and whining like a girl that got her lollypop taken from her.

Still 28 days that you wasted time making generalized statements like, "organs" and "working with banks and lending institutions."

Still 28 days where you tried to back up a sorry ass site, N'COBRA by quoting a stupid ass statement like "achieving independence and self-sufficiency from racist institutions," then turn around, take my idea, and say you want to insert [socially conscious] blacks in the same 'racist institutions' you want to achieve independence from, which reminds me, you still haven't explained your way out of this piece of bullshit you stepped in:

quote:
A good academic exercise would be to develop a plan for how reparations could be used collectively to enable the African community to become independent [B]from racist institutions and economically self-sufficient for at least seven generations. ----From the How would reparations be paid? section:
]http://www.ncobra.com/ncobra_info.htm[/B]


Last time I checked, the preposition, from, means the function of indicating physical separation. So, how can you want to achieve independence from the same racist institutions that you want to put [socially conscious] blacks into? See how that doesn't sound right when you try to steal other people's ideas and annex them into your own?

*Looking at my watch again*

Yep, still 27 days and 2 hours left until I reveal my opinion of the difference between 'black' and 'nigger.'

At this rate, Nmaginate, I won't have to explain anything at all because you'll spontaneously combust before my 27 days, 2 hours, and 43 minutes is up.



*Lighting up another Cohiba*
So lets talk about Blackness...
Blackness is a frame of mind, in the sense that black people can be viewed differently although their complexion is the same.

The whole concept of being black based on a form of behavior (usually predicated on ignorance of some kind) is some schit probably developed by racists and promoted and absorbed as a norm by some socially engineered ignorant negroes. That is why from sitcoms to clothes to sayings music to whatever is designated as stereotypically black, I establish my own
f-king norms, not get them from commercialized bullschit white folks sell to blacks and have blacks call that schit culture....or even norms...which in turn places a person in a ideological box in terms of self-perception and alleviates them from thinking not too different from or above the pre-established norms I just mentioned. I watch so many of us just live our lives and have no clue of what shaped the environment around us, what gave us the special set of social circumstances only we experience and how in the hell can we as individuals or a collective navigate out of such conditions.

I personally see black people as coming in three distinct mindset categories as I have interacted throughout life with my own people. I have love for them all(to a very varying extent, from molecular to infinite) but many sure make it hard to want any kind of f-cking affiliation with them...at all.
The three distinct categories,per my obesrvation are:

1. The acutely ignorant, who because of their pathological actions, could be called the N-word out of disdain, but I don't have a need to go there...I don't really hate black people. This category of individual is the cause of social ills and do not understand how they got into the things they are into, such as crime, murder, slinging drugs, gang banging and all that urban terrorist bullschit that put others in fear and danger and run property values down and decays the community and its quality of life. It can be hard to reach people in this category but everyone should be given the benefit of the doubt for maybe being able to turn things around. You cannot deny anyone the chance to better themselves based on your views of them....hence my disdain for conservative negroes who support politics that maintains these conditions by denying opportunities...they are piece of schit human beings.

2. Negroes-black conservatives and any other lackey type black who defers to whites without thinking in terms of their best interest AND manitaining their dignity by never subordinating themselves (letting whites tell them what they should think)AND never gain anything at the expense of the black collective, i.e. uncle tommin. This type of black still embraces the strange slave psychology where they believe that they should be like whites in thought, even without their same social accomodations, place themselves at their mercy (give up all laws that protect them from a social and civil rights standpoint) and whites will play fair with them across the board. They ignore history and present indicators that racism exists and still has adverse social and economical consequences for black people specifically. They think the way to the promised land is to stick their head up some conservative white person's azz, ......they are a "hoot" indeed.

3.The third and last and best....is the true black person. An individual with a strong will and desire to suceed despite any artificial barriers present. They are willing to do so and work hard and never live in deference to anyone, rememeber who fought on their behalf for the advancements they enjoy that their parents didn't and feel obligated to do SOMETHING on behalf of those that will come behind them. The key is that they always think and operate from a pro-black COLLECTIVE perspective and always speak in terms of the best interests of black people the way the black majority views it. They never downplay or trivialize the pressing social issues of the day for self-gain at the expense of their own. and they never allow themselves of their people be demeaned for trinkets, i.e., the grinnin corporate negro who endures racist jokes for a promotion or what he thinks is social affiliation. I am defintely striving to be a significant number three trying to figure out how to become a three to the second power. Many others in here are #3's also.......I hope #'s 1&2 can get the help they need and stop being such a detrement to the core of progressive, collective-thinking black america......

The bottom line....there is no such a thing as acting black...but there is such a thing as thinking progressively black........and I mean truly progressive....not in that, "i'm nothing like them, i am different" bullschit fake-negro or the "shoot up the hood and/or work to normalize ever black f-ked up stereotype (for the kids) type fool either. People who were impoverished in the past did not necessarily end up in that situtation because they were f-ked up people, they were systematically disenfranchised and poverty was the consequence of such actions. The sad part is, many now think that is how we ended up because we are just f-ked up people. No, what happened is that the emphasis on social normalization was not placed where and when it should have been and now those by-products are evident. It has nothing to do with the race of the people....there are poor people of all colors....but black poverty (created) is promoted as a figment of who the people are inherently, specifically some of the pathological behaviors that stem from poverty....period....but you can take the incomes from a upper middle class husband and wife and they will turn on each other as they have to give up their possesions and go back down the socioeconomic ladder. We have to get people to understand what makes them want to do the things they do....and not because they are inherently bad...that is how black people #3, view their own....not a number 1 or 2.........number
quote:
So, how can you want to achieve independence from the same racist institutions that you want to put [socially conscious] black into?
QUOTE ME or STROKE ME!!

That Socially Conscious insert bit is/was YOUR POSITION not me. LINK YOUR LYING ASS to that!

You are Mr. CONTRADICTION. You can't be me!
You can't point out contradictions that way I do you. I rebuked that dumb shit. Never even faked like it was worth stealing.

QUOTE ME or STROKE ME!!

Repeating LIES and Fictions You Want To Claim Are My Contradictions will only serve to get your feelings hurt.

Let me put it to you like this. I dare-challenge your ass, even on a 28 Day Watchdog, to ever QUOTE ME where I did exactly what you claimed. Where I said I wanted, preferred, recommend, suggest, would like, etc., etc., etc. [insert the "socially conscious" BS you are self-tormented BY!]

laugh
quote:
The bottom line....there is no such a thing as acting black --Kevin41


If there is no such thing as 'acting black' then what the hell do you call country ass white kids in the middle of idaho doing--listening to rap, dressing in urban clothing, using black slang, and participating in what could be considered gang activity?

If there is no such thing as 'acting black' then why is there such a thing as 'acting white' where a group of blacks label a black person as 'acting white' because he or she speaks proper english language, befriends people of other races, prefers education to ignorance, and does the right thing even if the right thing isn't popular opinion?
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin41:
1. The acutely ignorant, who because of their pathological actions, could be called the N-word out of disdain, but I don't have a need to go there...I don't really hate black people. This category of individual is the cause of social ills and do not understand how they got into the things they are into, such as crime, murder, slinging drugs, gang banging and all that urban terrorist bullschit that put others in fear and danger and run property values down and decays the community and its quality of life. It can be hard to reach people in this category but everyone should be given the benefit of the doubt for maybe being able to turn things around. You cannot deny anyone the chance to better themselves based on your views of them....hence my disdain for conservative negroes who support politics that maintains these conditions by denying opportunities...they are piece of schit human beings.

2. Negroes-black conservatives and any other lackey type black who defers to whites without thinking in terms of their best interest AND manitaining their dignity by never subordinating themselves (letting whites tell them what they should think)AND never gain anything at the expense of the black collective, i.e. uncle tommin. This type of black still embraces the strange slave psychology where they believe that they should be like whites in thought, even without their same social accomodations, place themselves at their mercy (give up all laws that protect them from a social and civil rights standpoint) and whites will play fair with them across the board. They ignore history and present indicators that racism exists and still has adverse social and economical consequences for black people specifically. They think the way to the promised land is to stick their head up some conservative white person's azz, ......they are a "hoot" indeed.

3.The third and last and best....is the true black person. An individual with a strong will and desire to suceed despite any artificial barriers present. They are willing to do so and work hard and never live in deference to anyone, rememeber who fought on their behalf for the advancements they enjoy that their parents didn't and feel obligated to do SOMETHING on behalf of those that will come behind them. The key is that they always think and operate from a pro-black COLLECTIVE perspective and always speak in terms of the best interests of black people the way the black majority views it. They never downplay or trivialize the pressing social issues of the day for self-gain at the expense of their own. and they never allow themselves of their people be demeaned for trinkets, i.e., the grinnin corporate negro who endures racist jokes for a promotion or what he thinks is social affiliation. I am defintely striving to be a significant number three trying to figure out how to become a three to the second power. Many others in here are #3's also.......I hope #'s 1&2 can get the help they need and stop being such a detrement to the core of progressive, collective-thinking black america......


.....and it is a matter of someone's opinion as to who reality fits that first or second category. Some of the people characterized as being in the first or second category truly deserve commendation for truly living like a member of the third category.

.....whereas some of the individuals who claim they are in the third category are as phony as phony can get, meaning as reality would have it, they truly belong in the first or second category!

Yep, IRONHORSE, a few people on this board have attempted to say that I'm Caucasian, or have no connection to the Black community too.

Unfortunately for them, it is also more insults, name calling, your an "uncle tom", you can't possibly be Black, "you sound just like a white man", etc.

....to which my response to this crap continues to be:

quote:
Originally posted by shemika:
Michael – you sound just like a white man. You keep irrationally reiterating the same rhetoric without acknowledging individual realities where blacks are concerned. You seem to see black people as an isolated single minded unit acting as one without regard to individual circumstances and influences, which is very inhumane. Although you claim to acknowledge the realities, your conclusions demonstrate otherwise.

All you do is point fingers, blaming blacks for matters often beyond their control. You bring no sensible solutions other than broad, sweeping, unrealistic comments that don't actually address those realities, but rather, disregards and dismisses them. Saying, "All blacks have to do is stop dealing with drugs.", is not only simple minded, it ignores the power of racist institutional stereotyping and corruption that stigmatizes and persecutes even innocent blacks as occurred in TX. History should tell you that if drugs were out of the picture they would still find something else to justify a means to their end.

Also, how do you propose that the black middle class change the condition of black people in general? They basically get their income from white owned and controlled establishments that have traditionally terminated or blackballed anyone they disapproved of. The black leaders of the 50's and 60's did a very good job, that's why they were assassinated. That alone should tell you something about what blacks are up against when it comes to gaining real power and protection from their schemes. Proof of what blacks have to deal with is also documented on the COINTELPRO website.

What the Black Panthers and other black organizations were promoting, was unity, pro-black education, having each others back, and placing responsibility on the perpetrators and benefactors of racism rather than helping to tear each other down by blaming the consequences of it on the blacks of it's victims. Which is the answer, and is why the white establishment hated them. Watch who they hate and you'll know who's on the right track; someone like yourself will gain their approval.


....Sorry to dissappoint you Kweli4Real, Kevin41, Herustar, Nmaginate, Shemika, Vox, etc., but there is no way that you can destroy my credibility as it relates to the game playing, the sleaze, etc., etc., that Black people perpetrate on each other.

....As far as Kerosene Waters, Brentwood Burke, the many jack leg no good Black preachers, and the like, I've witnessed first hand the sleaze, greed, and incompetence of these individuals since I was a child.

...Heck, during the period when my sisters and brothers were being passed between Black folks to collect illicitly earned AFDC benefits was a wake up call.

Just as surely as my people contacted Joe Pine radio, and the lone Black woman who heard this message, as it relates to my Dad, and Mom trying to locate their children.

......Maxine Waters, Yvonne B. Burke, etc., etc., were contacted in person, by telephone, by U.S. certified mail, and/or by other by many other individuals regarding this reality of that middleclass using another family members to collect AFDC benefits.

When an appointment was arranged and agreed upon as to the date and time of a meeting to address this serious set of circumstances, these individual would play games, send the victim on the runnaround, etc., etc. On the date and time of the appointed the administrative aids, assistants, etc., would state, "You just missed them, as it relate to our so-called elected Black leaders", in a Brentwood Burke, Maxine Waters, Merv Dymally, etc., etc. Upon leaving the field representative office of a Maxine Waters, Augustus Hawkins, Merv Dymally, etc., these no good elected representatives would then re-enter the office from some back room or office once their administrative assistances alerted them my parents left the premises. After continuously being subjected to the "run around", my parents started using certified mail to document by petition the fact that these individuals were contacted, and the basis for the complaint. A hint to the wise, if you are going to commit sleazy acts, don't ever do this around a child, a teenager, etc., because they will never forget it!


Seems to me, the lone Black woman (A responsible Black woman), and/or Joe Pine (a Caucasian responsible U.S. citizen and owner of Joe Pine Radio) is more deserving of respect and admiration, or for matter more deserving of the position of elected representatives. Elected Officials by definition are mandated by law and sworn in under oath of office to be public servants. Our typical Black elected officials use this position to serve themselves, and their friends at the expense of law abiding Black people, or their constituency.

....but let a Caucasian police officer shoot a Black man, woman, or child, and Kerosene Waters will race back to Los Angeles to play the race card, condemn the Police, etc., etc., ....but she has yet to use her position of influence to assist that Black man, woman, or child maimed, killed, or otherwise to receive just compensation for the atrocities of a government seriously gone awry. Ambulance Reverend Jesse Jackson, and Reverend Al Sharpton were so sure that this most recent shooting of a Black man, and the residents with 120 rounds fired by Los Angeles County Sheriffs was an all Caucasian against Black people atrocity. Chief Baca, the community residents of Compton, the media, and the local community activists, in a Naji Ali, sent both of these media attention for their own personal gain shakedown poverty pimping fake activist packing like a runaway freight train out of the County of Los Angeles.

Black people have been killing Black people, and breaking up Black families for profit for decades. When this activity occurs, you never hear from, see, or get any response from Kerosene Waters, Brentwood Burke, Merv Dymally, Walter Tucker, Marc Ridley Thomas, Diane Watson, Martin Ludlow, Theresa Hughes, Gilbert Lindsey, Tom Bradley, Dave Cunningham, Reverend Jesse Jackson, Reverend Al Sharpton, Poverty Pimping Danny Bakewell, Ambulance Chasing Attorney Johnny Cochran, etc., etc., etc., or that typical Black middle class.

Heck, but it is understandable as to the reason for silence. This activity like illicit drug dealing is a part of the economy, or means to make a living of that Black middle class.

Butcher/Killer King atrocities, perpetrated by Black doctors, nurses, and administrators have been going since the 70s. Again, Brentwood Burke, Merv Dymally, Kerosene Waters, etc., etc., have been quiet, and have condoned this activity.

......Civil lawsuit in behalf of the many victims, is what is making for quality of life improvement in South Central Los Angeles. The numerous civil lawsuits for damages, have caused Caucasian, Hispanic, or other elected officials, doctors, lawyers, to "Crack the Whip", "Blow the Whistle", expose the activity by publishing it in the Los Angeles Times, and by firing or forcing many of these no good Black nurses, doctors, or hospital administrators to resign.


Like other victims who have filed claims for damages, and/or who are taking action to remove that disgraceful Black middle class from Butcher/King Hospital, the Lofton family will eventually be paid, and that no good game playing set of Black elected officials will be removed from elected office. Some are being removed by criminal indictment, and many will be removed by demographic shifts, because unlike that typical Black middleclass who protect, remains silent, or profits from the destruction of destroying the Black family structure, Hispanics are very family oriented, meaning they will not put up with this foolishness.

Tyler Perry, If you are listening, I know that you can relate to this. Coming from the "Hood" just like you, I know for a fact that there are many Black people around, from all walks of life, that would just as soon shake hands with you, as to quickly stab you in the back when your back is turned, or your guards are down.

I'm on the roll Kweli4Real, and there is nothing you can do to stop this message. The numbers of Black people who agree with me are growing. Tune in to, KRLA, A.M. 890, and you can listen to some of them on any given day make similar statements, meaning you are outnumbered.

There are only a few people on this message board who can relate to this message, as it relates to the uncouthness, the obnoxiousness of that typical Black middle class. I'm sure that ocatchings can relate to some of this material as well. I know IronHorse relates to this material, because of the unwarranted insults sent his direction by a few members of AfricanAmerica.org.

Nope, ......I Don't have to prove my Blackness to anyone. I have years of experience!

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton
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quote:
QUOTE ME or STROKE ME!! --Nmaginate


Ask and ye shall recieve.


Oops, look what I found, Nmaginate:

quote:
So, the objective is to change the dynamics. If not completely change these "racist institutions" then, of course, the goal is to eliminate or lessen the effect of them. Perhaps that can be mitigated by a few socially conscious persons (amongst a sea of people who aren't... as conscious)... But to EITHER OR this instead of BOTH AND this really only shows the stupidity of your ideology.
---Nmaginate


Well, Imaginate, this certainly proves you've contradicted yourself. If you still can't make the connection, scroll up a few posts, back where I quoted that peice of garbage where you quoted from N'COBRA about achieving independence from racist institutions.

...and just think, I still haven't critiqued your ideas on what to do with reparations yet.

for the 423,754,357th time, Imaginate, how can you want to "change the dynamics" of racist institutions that you want to achieve independence from? Either you want to work with these racist institutions or you want to run away from them. Which one is it?

Go stroke yourself, dude.
quote:
May 30, 2005 11:03 AM
quote:
I've already stated, more than once, what should be done with reparations but more importantly, we need to get back to the business of picking up where Martin Luther King Jr., and Thurgood Marshall left off--instead of achieving 'independence and self-sufficiency from racist institutions,' we need to implement strategies that will infultrate these 'racist institutions' and place more socially conscious blacks in these racist institutions.
Twisted, sad and counterintutive thinking.

What has been the overall result of this "Working Within The System", "Infiltrate The System" strategy?

Seriously, you talk about Black people who are "LOST"... While on the way to "Infiltrate" the system, "these racist institution"... too many African Americans have simply replicated or been used to replicate the same things the system was putting out when they entered them. Part of that being because it was the very "Racist System" that trained them that they deluded themselves into thinking they would "infiltrate" and change.

...This is just delusional thinking. The "Infiltration" idea. As if "these racist institutions" are producing Socially Conscious Blacks. That runs counter to SYSTEM SURVIVAL, IronHorse. It is counterintuitive and just plain DELUSIONAL.

So, the objective is to change the dynamics. If not completely change these "racist institutions" then, of course, the goal is to eliminate or lessen the effect of them.
Perhaps that can be mitigated by a few socially conscious persons (amongst a sea of people who aren't... as conscious)... But to EITHER OR this instead of BOTH AND this really only shows the stupidity of your ideology.

To work towards SELF-SUFFICIENCY (oh, that bad word!) and INDEPENDENCE from "these racist institutions" BY BUILDING OUR OWN INSTITUTIONS that lessen our need to be overly exposed to "these racist institutions" by definition Changes The Dynamics and speaks directly about Fishing In Your Own Pond.
The only thing you could possibly even dream of claiming "I stole your idea" and said what YOU said (which was summarily REBUKED throughout... IN BLUE) is the RED PRINTED portion of my statement.

No amount of twisting and Wet Weasel Willy Nilly shit on your part can established that I said: I *want* to put [socially conscious] black into the RACIST INSTITUTIONS.

Literally, figuratively or rhetorically speaking, at best, your claim is a REACH! Too much REBUKE IN BLUE. That's why you're crying them... (blues) Frown

But I see where your convenient (and feigned) confusion comes from:
quote:
*slapping my head* See, this is also another reason why you're a worthless debator--you don't read the argument of the person that you're debating with. I already said socially conscious blacks should be placed in these 'racist institutions. '
You must be the Rebirth of Sgt.
I won't talk about how unintelligent your are but any person with a brain would know that when I quoted the very portion of your prior post with that ever statement then made the RED lettered comment I did... HINT... HINT... that means I not only read what you said but responded to it DIRECTLY.

Thanks for Playing!!
(Damn... I'm starting to use all my "White Boy" material on you! Big Grin)
I can tell when you get frustrated, Nmaginate, because you start painting your sentences in all those pretty colors. You remind me of an ex-girlfriend--whenever we got into an argument and she lost the argument, she would get quiet, go in the kitchen, get a coloring book and some crayons and start coloring.

You're doing the same thing, Nmaginate--you're upset because you know you lost yet another issue. If you had followed my advice in the first place and used your own ideas instead of hugging N'COBRA'S nuts, you wouldn't have gotten yourself into all this trouble.
quote:
Well, Imaginate, this certainly proves you've contradicted yourself.
Ha! Ha! Ha!!

I don't see the statement you claimed *I* made.

What was the OBJECTIVE I talked about?
What did I say the Objective actually was BY DEFINITION?

quote:
To work towards SELF-SUFFICIENCY... and INDEPENDENCE from "these racist institutions" BY BUILDING OUR OWN INSTITUTIONS that lessen our need to be overly exposed to "these racist institutions" by definition Changes The Dynamics.
That's obviously what I said I wanted. To CHANGE THE DYNAMICS... BY BUILDING OUR OWN INSTITUTIONS.

To the idea of Inserting "Socially Conscious" people in RACIST INSTITUTIONS (your idea, not mine) I said:
While on the way to "Infiltrate" the system, "these racist institution"... too many African Americans have simply replicated or been use to replicate the same things the system was putting out when they entered them. Part of that being because it was the very "Racist System" that trained them that they deluded themselves into thinking they would "infiltrate" and change.


This is just delusional thinking... As if "these racist institutions" are producing Socially Conscious Blacks...


That's what we call a STERN REBUKE!
And none of that shows a contradiction on my part, just you Intellectual IMPOTENCE Issues... td6
quote:
How can you want to achieve independence from racist institutions and put black people in the same racist institutions at the same time?
That's not my thesis...

Thanks for PLAYING, though! Wink

Since you need remedial education, I'll get a dictionary out for you (too):

WANT:
  • to have a strong desire for
  • to wish or demand the presence of

    None of my statements of "strong desire" or "wish" or "demands" indicated that I want/wanted to insert so-called Socially Conscious Black People in White RACIST Institutions. Again, I REBUKE that whole notion of yours as it related to your Infiltration DELUSIONS.

    Calling something like that DELUSIONAL hardly suggests that I WANT to insert Socially Conscious Blacks...

    bump NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • quote:
    So, the objective is to change the dynamics. If not completely change these "racist institutions" then, of course, the goal is to eliminate or lessen the effect of them. Perhaps that can be mitigated by a few socially conscious persons (amongst a sea of people who aren't... as conscious)... But to EITHER OR this instead of BOTH AND this really only shows the stupidity of your ideology.


    So, you're saying, Nmaginate, that you didn't make that statement you posted on May 30, 2005 11:03 AM?

    Whew, Nmaginate, you wouldn't last 30 seconds if you were on the witness stand of a case I was trying you on. You're a suck at lying, and what's worse is you're trying to cover up your bullshit with colorful sentences, curse words and stupid ass happy faces. You seriously need to grow up, Nmaginate.
    quote:
    So, the objective is to change the dynamics. If not completely change these "racist institutions" then, of course, the goal is to eliminate or lessen the effect of them. Perhaps that can be mitigated by a few socially conscious persons (amongst a sea of people who aren't... as conscious)... But to EITHER OR this instead of BOTH AND this really only shows the stupidity of your ideology.


    So, Imaginate, you're saying you never made this statement that I posted above? You suck at lying, Imaginate. You wouldn't last 30 seconds on the witness stand of a case I was trying on you.
    quote:
    So, you're saying, Nmaginate, that you didn't make that statement you posted on May 30, 2005 11:03 AM?
    I've been clear my little IMPOTENT dear...

    I didn't say this:
      So, how can you want to achieve independence from the same racist institutions that you want to put [socially conscious] blacks into?
    You can quote that portion of what I said ALL DAY/NIGHT LONG and it will never say "I, Nmag~, want to insert Socially Conscious Black People into WHITE Racist Institutions (under the DELUSION that they will successfully Infiltrate and Change those Racist Institutions... IN THE SEA PEOPLE - i.e. Outnumbered and Outgunned - who are not)"

    I've quoted and highlighted the same passage DUMBASS! There is no way I'm claiming that I didn't say WHAT I SAID. Categorically, I'm saying I didn't say WHAT YOU CLAIMED I SAID.

    BIG DIFFERENCE.
    Even from what you did quote, there's no need for context because there is still no way (you can be me). I show you YOUR CONTRADICTIONS. You ain't swift enough to show me mine, if they exist.

    Right now, you're (N)IMAGINATING things! tongue
    quote:
    None of my statements of "strong desire" or "wish" or "demands" indicated that I want/wanted to insert so-called Socially Conscious Black People in White RACIST Institutions. Again, I REBUKE that whole notion of yours as it related to your Infiltration DELUSIONS. --Nmaginate


    quote:
    So, the objective is to change the dynamics. If not completely change these "racist institutions" then, of course, the goal is to eliminate or lessen the effect of them. Perhaps that can be mitigated by a few socially conscious persons (amongst a sea of people who aren't... as conscious)... But to EITHER OR this instead of BOTH AND this really only shows the stupidity of your ideology.
    --Nmaginate


    Go flip your lying ass back over to the "Ideal Reparations" forum and check out what you typed. Better yet, go in your own thread and read the post you made on May 30, 2005 11:03 AM.

    That's why you're not worth a damn for debating with because you lie too damn much, and you waste pages and pages with stupid ass comments and happy faces to cover up for the fact that you're immature.
    quote:
    Go flip your lying ass back over to the "Ideal Reparations" forum and check out what you typed.
    All the relevant material is posted right here in my post here.

    I even printed the statement you think equates to what you want to use as my supposed contradiction in RED. Damn, at least, you could have picked it out by itself. The surrounding sentence(s) present CONTEXT that does not lend towards your SCORNED LOVER (fabricated) interpretations.

    But, as always, THANKS FOR PLAYING! lol
    quote:
    That's why you're not worth a damn for debating with because you lie too damn much, and you waste pages and pages with stupid ass comments and happy faces to cover up for the fact that you're immature.
    And this is coming from the STRAW MAN, himself!

    Ha! Comedy! Big Grin

    But I do have to hand it to you.
    You have a mean DEFLECT & REDIRECT skill.
    Never to remain on a troubling subject, huh IRON?

    Instead of Pseudo-BLACKNESS... You've made your on PSEUDO debating skills the topic. And your pseudo in that respect is so, so pseudo!

    You're a regular SHAM-a-lamb-pseudo-pluto-cracy!
    But you're the PRESIDENT of Dears. (My Dear SCORNED Lovers!) scream
    quote:
    So, how can you want to achieve independence from the same racist institutions that you want to put [socially conscious] blacks into?


    I inserted "socially conscious" because that's what I had originally said--to put more socially conscious blacks in these 'racist institutions.'

    I also talked about where Tavis Smiley and Tom Joyner did exactly that--made it so that qualified black applicants could be placed in more authoritative positions in KATZ radio. Now, I bet you're going to say I made all that up too, right?

    Get outta here, Imaginate--I caught you in a lie and you're still trying to wiggle your way out of it by quoting shit that doesn't even pertain to the topic at hand, which is, why would you want to put black people in racist white institutions that you want to achieve independence from?
    You're a liar, Imaginate, just put the damn smiley faces and colorful type down, grow up, and admit you're a fucking liar.
    quote:
    Originally posted by IRONHORSE:
    quote:
    The bottom line....there is no such a thing as acting black --Kevin41


    If there is no such thing as 'acting black' then what the hell do you call country ass white kids in the middle of idaho doing--listening to rap, dressing in urban clothing, using black slang, and participating in what could be considered gang activity?

    If there is no such thing as 'acting black' then why is there such a thing as 'acting white' where a group of blacks label a black person as 'acting white' because he or she speaks proper english language, befriends people of other races, prefers education to ignorance, and does the right thing even if the right thing isn't popular opinion?



    **Those are people who have been programmed to ask in stereotypes and have been given their identity sold to them by commercialized entities. I guess their character had to be give to them since they did not want to intellectually differentiate themselves.


    **I want someone to find scientific data that links people to exclusive behaviors with race being a source of causation.....figuratively, the layman believes in things like acting black, literally, the intellectual understands that race does not determine behavior, that is why you have eurocentric negroes and urban stereotype acting whites......both are out of place behaviorally, don't cha think? That in itself proves that "ethnic" behavior is chosen and not scientificall linked to pigmentation.....period
    quote:
    **I want someone to find scientific data that links people to exclusive behaviors with race being a source of causation


    No, no, no, no, Kevin. See, that's why debating with some of you people is so worthless--you're always trying to take shit so seriously.

    There doesn't need to be any scientific data to prove that people use the terminology 'acting white' and 'acting black' everyday. Just like white people use the terminology 'white people' and 'trailor trash' and black people use the word 'cracker' when referring to white people in general, so on and so forth with other cultures.

    You're trying to make a scientic experimentation out of something as culturally accepted as a superficial distinctions between what it is to be ignorant and unexposed to what it is to be knowledgible and civilized.
    quote:
    Get outta here, Imaginate--I caught you in a lie
    Yeah, right...

    Let me help you though (because you need it):
    You're a damn liar, Nmaginate
    You're a damn liar, Nmaginate
    You're a damn liar, Nmaginate
    You're a damn liar, Nmaginate
    You're a damn liar, Nmaginate
    You're a damn liar, Nmaginate

    NOW WHAT?? Does that make you UNFOUNDED and untenable, so-called "Catching Me in a LIE/CONTRADICTION" true?

    Hell, nawl!! Nowhere did I say "I WANT TO INSERT"... that's your mindset and your thesis ALONE!

    I sternly rebuked your mindless BULLSHIT and was clear about my WANT - aka preference, desire, demand, etc., etc., etc. It sure wasn't "I WANT TO INSERT Socially Conscious..." I was clear to say I thought that BS is/was DELUSIONAL!

    But keep living under your DELUSIONS.
    Condi Rice and Colin Powell are proving your Infiltration theory works. lol
    quote:
    So, the objective is to change the dynamics. If not completely change these "racist institutions" then, of course, the goal is to eliminate or lessen the effect of them. Perhaps that can be mitigated by a few socially conscious persons (amongst a sea of people who aren't... as conscious)... But to EITHER OR this instead of BOTH AND this really only shows the stupidity of your ideology. --Nmaginate


    So, you're saying you didn't make this statement, Nmaginate?

    Yep, you're a liar.

    You're a fucking liar.

    You're a damn liar.
    C'mon PSEUDO-IRON...

    Perhaps that can be mitigated by a few socially conscious persons (amongst a sea of people who aren't...)

    PERHAPS = something open to doubt or conjecture

    Throughout my post I not only presented why I doubted and didn't WANT or prefer your Infiltration Insertion FANTASY... I sternly REBUKED it.

    Now, the EITHER OR vs BOTH AND statement just showed how I have no problems with DELUSIONAL people like you pursuing what you like... But, again, what I WANTED, what I preferred, what I demanded was crystal clear.

    So, seriously, how did I contradict myself and WHERE did I say I... I... I WANTED to insert Socially Conscious (yada, yada...)?

    NOWHERE! But if you need a dream, you can talk that BS or yours to sleep. Whatever Debate Skills you thought you had have already been snoozing! sleep

    quote:
    So, you're saying you didn't make this statement, Nmaginate?
    IMPOTENT!
    (Hey, isn't that "so are you saying" shit a "White Boy" Lyric?)

    Mr. BROKEN RECORD...

    I'm saying I didn't say what you said.
    I keep quoted the same passage in whole (the relevant context) and in part (the sentence you think is in question).

    So I have not denied that I said what I did.
    I've categorically denied that I said what you did. You can't twist it, that's why you're repeating your posts questions verbatim because you know you can substantiate - i.e. prove I contradicted myself (that I said what you claimed I said).

    Nothing in my quote approximates your CLAIM.
    Twisted, sad and counterintutive thinking.

    What has been the overall result of this "Working Within The System", "Infiltrate The System" strategy?

    Seriously, you talk about Black people who are "LOST"... While on the way to "Infiltrate" the system, "these racist institution"... too many African Americans have simply replicated or been use to replicate the same things the system was putting out when they entered them. Part of that being because it was the very "Racist System" that trained them that they deluded themselves into thinking they would "infiltrate" and change.

    Well, one thing you don't get taught by your "enemy" is how to defeat him and when you leave it for your enemy to educate you and yours... suffice it to say your everyday training won't be one that prepares you for combat in every theatre on all terrain.

    (Note: You used the word "infiltrate". You don't "infiltrate" the fortress of a friend...)

    This is just delusional thinking. The "Infiltration" idea. As if "these racist institutions" are producing Socially Conscious Blacks. That runs counter to SYSTEM SURVIVAL, IronHorse. It is counterintuitive and just plain DELUSIONAL.

    So, the objective is to change the dynamics. If not completely change these "racist institutions" then, of course, the goal is to eliminate or lessen the effect of them. Perhaps that can be mitigated by a few socially conscious persons (amongst a sea of people who aren't... as conscious)... But to EITHER OR this instead of BOTH AND this really only shows the stupidity of your ideology.

    To work towards SELF-SUFFICIENCY (oh, that bad word!) and INDEPENDENCE from "these racist institutions" BY BUILD OUR OWN INSTITUTIONS that lessen our need to be overly exposed to "these racist institutions" by definition Changes The Dynamics and speaks directly about Fishing In Your Own Pond. ---all Nmaginate's words.
    Dude? Is there an echo?

    Page 1... I posted, IN LIVING COLOR, all that was contextually relevant. That's direct ownership of my words, IRON.

    What I will not take as mine are your unfouned and IMPOTENT words. Nowhere did I say "I WANT TO INSERT Socially Conscious Blacks in RACIST INSTITUTIONS".

    I do not share your DELUSIONAL Infiltration(Insertion) Fantasy. I called COUNTERINTUITIVE.

    Do you know what that means?
    Is that word too big for you? Too SERIOUS!

    Oh and... NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    (I'm waiting for you to reference another WISE statement that your FISHIN' EXPEDITION ass will promptly CONTRADICT.... IMPOTENT Sissy! Don't you know, you can't be(at) me!) nono
    Let's take a little closer look at this, shall we?

    quote:
    So, the objective is to change the dynamics. If not completely change these "racist institutions" then, of course, the goal is to eliminate or lessen the effect of them.


    Why would you be concerned about changing institutions if you want to achieve independence from them? Certainly, these racist instititions, as you have stated earlier, which are banks and lending institutions, that hold billions and billions of dollars, wouldn't be threatened by newly created black banks and lending institutions--I hope that isn't what you're thinking, Nmaginate, so, how the hell do you propose this part:

    quote:
    then, of course, the goal is to eliminate or lessen the effect of them. Perhaps that can be mitigated by a few socially conscious persons (amongst a sea of people who aren't... as conscious)...


    so who the hell are these socially conscious persons, Nmaginate? I most certainly hope you aren't talking about sleeping with the enemy--hoping that you can make double-agents out of some white people. If this isn't the case then the only conclusion we have left with is to insert a few socially conscious black people in these racist institutions.

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