First off, good to see you back Sis S. Smile

If you feel that my post was aimed as a personal attack then I unreservedly apologise coz I think you're an awesome woman and I DO respect your viewpoints and posts. tfro

Sis S: "I believe, as my faith teaches, that some people ARE better than others."

Ethically and morally I don't and can't agree with this statement. That's just my personal opinion.

I believe all people are equal, and it is our individual consciousness to choose how we BEHAVE whether sexually, in business, whatever.

For me it is the spirit and motivation of how each person CHOOSES to act at a particular moment that holds clarity and purpose and ethics. To me that IS everything. Going a step further, to me, by judging those choices is irrelevant and arrogant, unless we are more than human and/or mindreaders.

But that is art_gurl's unique perspective on life and is irrelevant to anyone but me.

Perhaps Sis S we can agree that some people's (male and female) BEHAVIOUR is better than others? But we don't have to agree on anything, that is cool, although I'm sure we both agree that life isn't about nodding and agreeing with each other. Smile

Anyhoo...

I think the depth of feeling and reaction this thread has generated shows it was a valid one to start Ms Popcorn. All discussion is good to blow away the 'cobwebs'.
This is something quick to stir things up a bit.

Promiscous women are the scum of the earth. These women are the biggest murderers, the biggest baby killers on the planet. Since they can not control themselves and do not respect themselves as women they take out their mistakes on poor defendless innocents in their wombs through abortions. Check out how much murders these monstrous women commit in a year and then try to justify female promiscuity.

There is no double standards here. It's men who label these women promiscous. Why? Simple really!! Men play and have fun with these type of women but deep down very few men want to end up with a woman that is the local town whore as the wife or the mother of his children.

Take a close look at the topic again. The defenders of female promiscuity are women and the ones who speak against it are the men, what does that tell you as a woman?
quote:
Originally posted by henry38:

This is something quick to stir things up a bit.

Promiscous women are the scum of the earth. These women are the biggest murderers, the biggest baby killers on the planet. Since they can not control themselves and do not respect themselves as women they take out their mistakes on poor defendless innocents in their wombs through abortions. Check out how much murders these monstrous women commit in a year and then try to justify female promiscuity.

There is no double standards here. It's men who label these women promiscous. Why? Simple really!! Men play and have fun with these type of women but deep down very few men want to end up with a woman that is the local town whore as the wife or the mother of his children.

Take a close look at the topic again. The defenders of female promiscuity are women and the ones who speak against it are the men, what does that tell you as a woman?


Respectfully, I think your position is completely indefensible and abhorrent. Last time I checked there has been only one immaculate conception. nono
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
quote:
Originally posted by henry38:

This is something quick to stir things up a bit.

Promiscous women are the scum of the earth. These women are the biggest murderers, the biggest baby killers on the planet. Since they can not control themselves and do not respect themselves as women they take out their mistakes on poor defendless innocents in their wombs through abortions. Check out how much murders these monstrous women commit in a year and then try to justify female promiscuity.

There is no double standards here. It's men who label these women promiscous. Why? Simple really!! Men play and have fun with these type of women but deep down very few men want to end up with a woman that is the local town whore as the wife or the mother of his children.

Take a close look at the topic again. The defenders of female promiscuity are women and the ones who speak against it are the men, what does that tell you as a woman?


Respectfully, I think your position is completely indefensible and abhorrent. Last time I checked there has been only one immaculate conception. nono
You have to be a little more elaborate than that that one liner MBM.

What is abhorrent to say promiscuous women commit the greatest number of abortions and therefore the biggest killers on the planet? Don't you think abortions and those who commit them are are abhorrent and abominable people? Maybe you don't. If so then the feeling of abhorrence is on the wrong foot.

Now I don't understand this thing about immaculate conception you are bringing into the discussion. We are talking about bad bad women, what has immaculate conception got to do with it? Confused Maybe you want to stirr things up as well? Big Grin
I have used the word "Promiscuious" referring to a gay man. Unfortunately a gay friend has displayed promiscuious behavior. After sometime of knowing this individual, I realized some gay men prefer a lifestyle of one sexual escapade after another and his lifestyle is like that.

I must say, I am a DEFENDER of women who are called promiscuious. I can't throw that first stone! I believe one's sexual preferences/desires is one's own business.

POPCORN writes:
quote:

"Latoyia Figueroa has been a single mother since her teens, and with this second child on the way... she has been promiscuous."

"It is very possible that her own promiscuity may have contributed to her present situation."


And WHERE did you get that quote from?
Can you imagine a young woman in your family being missing since July 18th and not knowing what happen to her until the middle of August. It seems un-real that anyone would write such a derogatory statement about someone who is 24 years old and pregnant for the second time. I know young women the same age that have 6 children. What do you call them? And besides, I don't care what Latoyia's lifestyle was she deserves the same news coverage and search as NATALEE vacationing in ARUBA. The US is a melting pot of nationalities, ethnic groups and social-economic classes. What's good for one group is good for the others.

Now that we know the boyfriend did it, now is the time to address domestic violence issues.
"There is no double standards here. It's men who label these women promiscous. Why? Simple really!! Men play and have fun with these type of women but deep down very few men want to end up with a woman that is the local town whore as the wife or the mother of his children.

Take a close look at the topic again. The defenders of female promiscuity are women and the ones who speak against it are the men, what does that tell you as a woman?" by Henry38

......where Henry38 puts it bluntly, this is very much a part of the reality of it. There is no reward at the end of the rainbow for having low moral standards, be it male or female.

*********************************
"I am personally outraged that you would have the nerve, that you would dare to post anything on this topic. And you post it to promote the same old sanctimonious song you've been singing since you learned to talk. You use this topic to malign the lives of African Americans. Have you no shame, none whatsoever?

You are the author of the two quotes used to start this topic, the two quotes that you have highlighted here." by Popcorn

Think what you will, but any woman who makes mistake number one of having a child out of wedlock, and who failed to learn from her first mistake by having a second child out of wedlock, where both fathers choose not to be responsible, means both parents morals are very bad. It would not be difficult to determine that any woman living this lifestyle is promiscuous, or has the tendency to be promiscuous.

Any biological father who is just as responsible for the care of the child is not being a responsible parent. He would also have low moral standards, which would also make him just as promiscuous. In most cases, the court system will order the biological father to provide child support, even if no more than to reimburse the government for the administrative costs, and other costs associated with providing AFDC benefits for the mother and her illegitimate children.

"Although this case has been bullied onto the national news to prove a point about race and media by political opportunists like Richard Cranium, it never was a case about a missing woman and is not national news. There is nothing particularly unusual about this case. She is an inner-city African-American/Latino woman, living a more than unconventional lifestyle in a high crime area, and now she's missing--big surprise. Furthermore, this story is hurtful to minorities because it has done nothing other than to reinfornce negative stereotypes: (1) LaToyia's father and other relatives are barely literate; (2) LaToyia's best friend said: "She coulda been snatched up by anybody, or one of her baby's fathas, or some guy she's messin wit" (rolling eyes); and (3) rather than save up more money, LaToyia and Baby Fatha No. 2 took their money and bought fried seafood rather than pay the $35 co-pay for prenatal care.

The Natalee Holloway case is national news. She is a beautiful young woman, with a full scholarship to the University of Alabama, who disappears on what would otherwise be a dream vacation to an island resort with the lowest crime rate in the world. Big, big difference, in every respect. I hope LaToyia returns home safely, although I doubt it. In the end, however, we should not have to have our national news littered with this story. I assure you the end result will only cause more embarassment and humiliation, and it's clear that national news anchors are annoyed by having to cover this story because they too, of course, realize it's not national news. Wise up Cranium, this isn't about you and your outdated political agenda".......

........."Now, I will repeat the salient points. The majority of America is interested in the Natalee Holloway story for several reasons. First, Aruba happens to be a favorite vacation resort for tens of thousands of Americans, every year, and one of the reasons is that it historically has a very low crime rate. Second, Natalee is a beautiful young girl with her entire life ahead of her--one filled with promise as evidenced by her full scholarship to college.

By contrast, LaToyia's life was already in ruin. She was working on her second illegitimate kid. She was irresponsible with her money, as evidenced by the fact that her and Baby Fatha No. 2 didn't even have $35 between them to satisfy the insurance co-pay for prenatal care. And, what did they do with the money they did have on them that day?--they went out and bought some greasy seafood lunch. This is pure savagery. This is also the reason why 80% of the American public consider her life to be anathema to proper living and are annoyed that their news is interrupted and littered by the LaToyia case. You can see the obvious backlash, as LaToyia is barely covered now, if at all, while Natalee continues to receive the coverage she deserves. Finally, LaToyia would not have received any coverage at all if her cousin was not a city council member, and if her uncle were not a city detective. This is what makes the LaToyia case an even bigger hypocrisy since all of the whining bloggers were using her as a martyr to make statements about favoritism in the media.

In the end, this was yet another tactical error, not unlike the recent NARAL ad that was pulled, by minorities and liberal bedwetters who can't get acceptance of their unpopular positions and causes through any other means than whining."

*****************************
...and this is from the thoughts of another individual, to share the reality that having low moral standards is not a ticket to prosperity.

Generally, anyone with high moral standards is given an edge over anyone else whose moral standards are very low.


Well, outraged or not, it is about time Black folks stop living in a dream world. The stigma that goes with having children out of wedlock, or having low moral standards is very real. I could care less how outraged you or anyone else become, because it is more important that the reality be stated, in that having low moral standards promotes failure, and does not promote prosperity.

I have a first cousin who finished medical school, and who is a licensed medical doctor. Before my cousin had a child out of wedlock, her peers had the utmost respect for my cousin. After practicing medicine for several years, my cousin had a child out of wedlock. Less respect was shown for my cousin, as a result of her having a child out of wedlock.

In my own life I have had dealings with women who have had children out of wedlock. By and large, this group of Black women, have created their own misery, to be destined for a life of poverty, the exception being the very few who already had a marketable skill, the few who made the necessary sacrifices to acquire a marketable skill, and/or the women who chose not to make the same mistake of having more illegitimate children.

The women with one or more illegitimate children, who did not have a marketable skill, or who refused to make the necessary sacrifice to acquire a marketable skill, and who also chose to have more illegitimate children out of wedlock are dependent on social welfare, some have resorted to criminal activity for survival, a few are on the verge of being homeless, and/or wish for a miracle that a "Sugar Daddy" comes to their aid, to bail them out from under the serious financial problems that each of these individuals face.

Mind you in each case the biological father deserted each of these women, both financially, and/or from a mutual parenting responsibility standpoint.

I have helped a few of them by buying them groceries, making a car payment for one or two of them, etc. I'm not about to become that "Sugar Daddy" for anyone of them. Having lived in poverty, and risen from extreme poverty, I'm not about to be driven back into poverty behind the life style of anyone whose low moral standards, and/or whose intentional desire is to remain unmarketable, in a world that requires a marketable skill for survival, that is if your goal is to make a legal living. Should your desire be to immoral, or refrain from acquiring a marketable skill, then you can be as criminal, and uncouth as you want to be, but eventually any individual who chooses this option, will pay a steep price for such a life style. Developing a relationship with anyone of these individuals will eventually contribute to my detriment also,....that is, in the event I were to jump through any hoop of financial misery, to be that "Sugar Daddy", at my own expense.

This is why it is a waste of my time, to reply to a Popcorn, a Kevin41, etc., because it is about time Black people stop dreaming, and share the reality of this situation, as opposed to living in "LA LA Land" by dreaming, that having low moral standards is some ticket to prosperity!
quote:
Originally posted by henry38:

Maybe you want to stirr things up as well? Big Grin


Of course! bsm

My only point is that it seems patently unfair to demonize women in the way that it appears you do here when every pregnancy in the history of humanity - save one - has also involved a man. Men share equal culpability in sex and childbirth as do women.
I think it was Eve who is responsible for women having the burden of bearing children, biblically speaking. Whether Biblically or through the natural selection process of nature, genders have specific roles. Nature created the double standard and the idealistic thinking of humans cannot and should not attempt to believe they are wiser than the laws of nature.

I think if women want to be promiscuous and attempt lower themselves to the behavior of men, they must be able to accept the consequences. Nature gave women the greater responsibility, which means the women should be more responsible concerning who they lay with and as a general rule, they are.

A person only has 50% control over any one-on-one relationship of equals. That 50% control is of themselves. However, a woman incubates and brings forth life through the womb, meaning that she has more than a 50% stake in a one-on-one sexual encounter. She has the stake of the child born from the gift/burden that nature affixed to her.

Women should not make a sexual decision based upon expectations of what a man [should] do. Again, she has no control over what the many [will] do, but she has total control over what she will do, assuming self-control. Given empirical evidence of the behavior of men a woman who lays with a man is taking a much greater risk than a man takes when he lays with a women.

A promiscuous man only risks a sexual transmitted disease. A promiscuous women risk, STDs, pregnancy and caring for a child because of the bond formed between mother and child in the womb. It is much easier for a man to walk away from a child when they have not bonded with them. Women have the bond formed in the womb. Consequently, should be more responsible because their risks are simply greater.
quote:

A promiscuous man only risks a sexual transmitted disease. A promiscuous women risk, STDs, pregnancy and caring for a child because of the bond formed between mother and child in the womb. It is much easier for a man to walk away from a child when they have not bonded with them. Women have the bond formed in the womb. Consequently, should be more responsible because their risks are simply greater.


I agree with this.......i also think that a promiscuous man/woman have 'mental issues'.....that will cause other problems.



Yes its funny, society accepts/encourages men to be promiscuous, but will bash a woman....if she has a child out of wedlock. (And she doesnt have to be promisuous for this to happen!)

There is nothing we can do about the way society thinks...........but we (women) can take charge of the situation.
I am as tired of this topic as anyone, but I won't let this piece of "moralising" by Michael go unchallenged...

quote:
Quote:"Natalee is a beautiful young girl with her entire life ahead of her -- one filled with promise as evidenced by her full scholarship to college".


This sounds like supremesist bullshit to me.

quote:
By contrast, LaToyia's life was already in ruin. She was working on her second illegitimate kid..." Blah blah. "...this is pure savagery...blah"


Exactly who gives you the divine right to aportion value to one human being as being better than another? OK it's just your opinion. Gasp...!

Who has a crystal ball to say beyond doubt that Natalee mightn't go on to become a lawyer and showed promise for fraudulent behaviour... and fcuked over 100s of people? So what if she was "BEAUTIFUL" or "full of promise"... she is NOT BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE. Certainly not "better" than LaToyia!

Maybe LaToyia, because of all her own experiences, might have gone on to be a social worker or mentor, who might have a profound influence of 1000's of people's lives and made a real difference. We will never know.

Michael - you are missing compassion and empathy big time. No wonder you frequent some of the sites you do without a second thought.

GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESH!
quote:
Originally posted by qty226:
There is nothing we can do about the way society thinks...........but we (women) can take charge of the situation.

Thank you qty226. Thank you. That I believe this is the crux of the matter. The SOLUTION decisions and control of the situation is in the hands of our women. We can not force you to be morally upright but it would be BEST if you are. All we ask is for you to remember you carry the responsibilty as our mothers, our sisters, our daughters and finally you are our pride and joy as black men. Unfortunately what many of you have become is not very nice and makes some of us black men downright ashamed of you.
]
quote:
Originally posted by art_gurl:
I am as tired of this topic as anyone, but I won't let this piece of "moralising" by Michael go unchallenged...

quote:
Quote:"Natalee is a beautiful young girl with her entire life ahead of her -- one filled with promise as evidenced by her full scholarship to college".


This sounds like supremesist bullshit to me.

quote:
By contrast, LaToyia's life was already in ruin. She was working on her second illegitimate kid..." Blah blah. "...this is pure savagery...blah"


Exactly who gives you the divine right to aportion value to one human being as being better than another? OK it's just your opinion. Gasp...!

Who has a crystal ball to say beyond doubt that Natalee mightn't go on to become a lawyer and showed promise for fraudulent behaviour... and fcuked over 100s of people? So what if she was "BEAUTIFUL" or "full of promise"... she is NOT BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE. Certainly not "better" than LaToyia!

Maybe LaToyia, because of all her own experiences, might have gone on to be a social worker or mentor, who might have a profound influence of 1000's of people's lives and made a real difference. We will never know.

Michael - you are missing compassion and empathy big time. No wonder you frequent some of the sites you do without a second thought.

GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESH!

*************************************

"Although this case has been bullied onto the national news to prove a point about race and media by political opportunists like Richard Cranium, it never was a case about a missing woman and is not national news. There is nothing particularly unusual about this case. She is an inner-city African-American/Latino woman, living a more than unconventional lifestyle in a high crime area, and now she's missing--big surprise. Furthermore, this story is hurtful to minorities because it has done nothing other than to reinfornce negative stereotypes: (1) LaToyia's father and other relatives are barely literate; (2) LaToyia's best friend said: "She coulda been snatched up by anybody, or one of her baby's fathas, or some guy she's messin wit" (rolling eyes); and (3) rather than save up more money, LaToyia and Baby Fatha No. 2 took their money and bought fried seafood rather than pay the $35 co-pay for prenatal care. The Natalee Holloway case is national news. She is a beautiful young woman, with a full scholarship to the University of Alabama, who disappears on what would otherwise be a dream vacation to an island resort with the lowest crime rate in the world. Big, big difference, in every respect. I hope LaToyia returns home safely, although I doubt it. In the end, however, we should not have to have our national news littered with this story. I assure you the end result will only cause more embarassment and humiliation, and it's clear that national news anchors are annoyed by having to cover this story because they too, of course, realize it's not national news. Wise up Cranium, this isn't about you and your outdated political agenda."

**************************************
Well artgurl,

Although I'm not the author of this material, it makes sense. I have chosen to distance myself from those whose moral standards are in the toilet, rather than join their ranks.

Following in their footsteps, or forming an alliance with anyone whose moral standards are in the toilet, would more so than not, keep me in poverty, lead to criminal prosecution, and/or call for increased government intervention in my life, which more so than not would severely limit my success, and/or ruin my own future.


Authorities on the subject, and proof of the connection between single parenthood, illegitimate child birth, and poverty, are definitely worth paying attention to.

The misleading lip service from an art_gurl and/or anyone else of similar expression has little value!

It is certain that an art_gurl would be ignored or put in her place by her own Caucasian community if an art_gurl encouraged low moral standards, illegitimate birth, etc., in the Caucasian community!

If I were you, Black people, I wouldn't place much credence in the misguided or misleading views of any misleading liberal Caucasian in an art_gurl..

More so than in any other community, as applied to the Black community, encouraging low moral standards, and illegitimate birth, are contributing factors to single parent families, poverty, and/or criminal activity!

Mind you, statistically, more so than the family structure of any other ethnic group, Black families:

A. are headed by a single parent.

B. have a higher illegitimate child birth rate.

C. are dependent on social welfare, and/or increased government intervention for its' survival.

These factors contribute to the increased poverty rate, welfare dependency, and/or criminal activity in our community!

....and the points or authorities are valid, neither of which come from any KKK, StormFront, or similar website.

Although it is certain that some of the same material can be found on a KKK website, as it concerns the high illegitimate birth rate of Black children, the high incidence of Black families dependent on social welfare, the high crime rate that exists in the Black community, etc.


The same information comes from many sources, and Black people who have lived in the inner-city with their eyes, ears, and minds open know this is true!

.....art_gurl, and/or anyone else of similar expression, I could care less what you think of me, because you are not an ingredient to my success.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton
"
quote:
Originally posted by http://www.neo-kem.com:
Hey I know I don't post much here, but I check this forum often. And I have learned a lot here.

I need to know something: is this guy michael supposed to be a black person?

If so why is he quoting a conservative think tank?"

If not why is he allowed to spread dissention unchecked?


If the Truth is Ever Told....

.....and having lived under this foolishness, the foolishness of having to be subjected to the treason of that Black middleclass, and/or the liberal Caucacian community who promote this disgraceful Black leadership, to unwarrantedly, and illegally, break up the law abiding Black family structure for profit, I don't have to consult the views of any conservative think tank to prove it!

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton
Ok Ok I get it.... you hate black people.

So why do you post here?

If you fell as strongly as you do and if you are as succesful as you claim, why not run for office or something.

This is not the place to insult degrade and or offend black people.

The people here are trying to find solutions to the problems.

If you have suggestions why not post those instead of wasting energy posting things that incite anger and discord?

http://www.saywordradio.com
quote:
Originally posted by http://www.neo-kem.com:
Ok Ok I get it.... you hate black people.

So why do you post here?

If you fell as strongly as you do and if you are as succesful as you claim, why not run for office or something.

This is not the place to insult degrade and or offend black people.

The people here are trying to find solutions to the problems.

If you have suggestions why not post those instead of wasting energy posting things that incite anger and discord?

http://www.saywordradio.com


....and reading literature, no matter what form, is not even close to being the root cause of poverty and/or death in the Black community.

Poor choices, poor decisions, disregard for property rights, and disregard for life has resulted in the unwarranted property damage and/or death of other Black people, and/or many other individuals.


...more likely Black people hate themselves, because Black people are in fact their own worst enemy!
The people who post here don't hate themselves or their people.

THey are here trying to find solutions.

If you have suggestions post them.

Cease and desist from wasting your energy insulting us.

You will find their are a number conservative and rascist forums in which you can post your views and hear nothing but handclaps in agreement. This is not the place for you you should leave.

http://www.saywordradio.com
quote:
Originally posted by http://www.neo-kem.com:
The people who post here don't hate themselves or their people.

THey are here trying to find solutions.

If you have suggestions post them.

Cease and desist from wasting your energy insulting us.

You will find their are a number conservative and rascist forums in which you can post your views and hear nothing but handclaps in agreement. This is not the place for you you should leave.

http://www.saywordradio.com


....being respectful to self, others, setting good moral standards, etc., etc., would be a big step in the right direction.

This solution would not require an intense brainstorming session, any thinktank, etc., because the solutions are easy to understand and to make use of.


...more likely Black people hate, disgrace, and/or insult themselves, because Black people are in fact their own worst enemy!

Perhaps you should take your own advice, because I'm not about to flip this script, or make tracks because you suggest that I do!
quote:
Originally posted by http://www.neo-kem.com:
you also should take your own advice in regards to being respectful to others.

Your posts here most all find disrespectful.

Your conduct here is a perfect example of a black person acting ignent. Not caring what others think and only thinkng of themselves.

http://www.saywordradio.com


....it is certain the individuals facing the music would have an entirely different view point as to where the true ignorance and disrespect lies. More likely, the finger of blame would be directed at this misfit set that surely exists in the Black community!

....as for ignorance, etc., etc., again Black people are major contributors to their own ignorance, self destruction, etc.,

.....and again, I'm not about to flip this script to please anyones eyes, ears, or thoughts!

..or give praise to that misfit and/or treasonous set of individuals, that surely exists within the Black community.
quote:
Originally posted by http://www.neo-kem.com:
Well please then, leave us in our ignorent bliss.

Your contributions will not change our minds or views .So why waste your time?

No one wants you here.

You admit you are not trying to change anything.

Get a another hobby..

http://www.saywordradio.com


....and there are other Black people around who share this viewpoint, at it pertains to personal responsibility, respect for the rights of others, less welfare dependency, hard work, and the ideals of free enterprise as solutions for uplifting the Black community!

...nor will your views mine. I work on my own terms not yours!
Qty, it is good to know that an Empress as externally beautiful as yourself is also as internally beautiful by way of grace and virtue. No doubt you are a complete half circle, who if connected with a complete male half circle would form the complete circle to bring forth matrimony and life.
quote:
Originally posted by art_gurl:
I am as tired of this topic as anyone, but I won't let this piece of "moralising" by Michael go unchallenged...

quote:
Quote:"Natalee is a beautiful young girl with her entire life ahead of her -- one filled with promise as evidenced by her full scholarship to college".


This sounds like supremesist bullshit to me.

quote:
By contrast, LaToyia's life was already in ruin. She was working on her second illegitimate kid..." Blah blah. "...this is pure savagery...blah"


Exactly who gives you the divine right to aportion value to one human being as being better than another? OK it's just your opinion. Gasp...!

Who has a crystal ball to say beyond doubt that Natalee mightn't go on to become a lawyer and showed promise for fraudulent behaviour... and fcuked over 100s of people? So what if she was "BEAUTIFUL" or "full of promise"... she is NOT BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE. Certainly not "better" than LaToyia!

Maybe LaToyia, because of all her own experiences, might have gone on to be a social worker or mentor, who might have a profound influence of 1000's of people's lives and made a real difference. We will never know.

Michael - you are missing compassion and empathy big time. No wonder you frequent some of the sites you do without a second thought.

GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESH!

________________________________________________

Art_Gurl,

As a alluded to in previous posts, the only thing that people who think like this about women use a a morality stick is whether or not the female has given birth. Narrow minded, sexist, lower based thinking of women in general makes certain men believe that, "Natalee is a beautiful young girl with her entire life ahead of her -- one filled with promise as evidenced by her full scholarship to college" only because Natalee does not have a child or more than one or one "out of wedlock," while the same lower based sexist mindset makes men who possess that type of mindset automatically believe,LaToyia's life was already in ruin. She was working on her second illegitimate kid...,", based only on the fact that she gave birth to a child out of wedlock, and oh, goodness gracious me, TWO out of wedlock conceptions.
Notice that there is nothing said of the father or fathers of LaToyia's children and that men who possess such contempt for women who do not fit into their religious induced virtue box for women, have not thought or contemptous phrases, post, names, etc., even for the man responsible for murdering LaToyia? In a narrow mind like that, a cold blooded murderer has more virture than a woman who has exercised her rights in a free nation as a free woman and has had sex without the benefit of marriage, and God forbid, had the nerve to even have 'evidence' of that fact for the world to see---children.

Also, men who are that narrow minded are also stupid enough to believe that Natalie, a woman away on vacation on a foreign island, hopping in and out of cars with complete or virtual strangers, for Good knows what reasons, doing God know what, is automatically more 'virtuous' than LaToyia, merely based on the fact that Natalie does not have an illegitimate child.

It's scary how many men in this world really hate women and try to rationalize and justify what really boils down to a dislike of women to whatever they can conjure up in their minds to make it the woman's fault.
quote:
Originally posted by sunnubian:

Art_Gurl,

As a alluded to in previous posts, the only thing that people who think like this about women use a a morality stick is whether or not the female has given birth. Narrow minded, sexist, lower based thinking of women in general makes certain men believe that, "Natalee is a beautiful young girl with her entire life ahead of her -- one filled with promise as evidenced by her full scholarship to college" only because Natalee does not have a child or more than one or one "out of wedlock," while the same lower based sexist mindset makes men who possess that type of mindset automatically believe,LaToyia's life was already in ruin. She was working on her second illegitimate kid...,", based only on the fact that she gave birth to a child out of wedlock, and oh, goodness gracious me, TWO out of wedlock conceptions.
Notice that there is nothing said of the father or fathers of LaToyia's children and that men who possess such contempt for women who do not fit into their religious induced virtue box for women, have not thought or contemptous phrases, post, names, etc., even for the man responsible for murdering LaToyia? In a narrow mind like that, a cold blooded murderer has more virture than a woman who has exercised her rights in a free nation as a free woman and has had sex without the benefit of marriage, and God forbid, had the nerve to even have 'evidence' of that fact for the world to see---children.

Also, men who are that narrow minded are also stupid enough to believe that Natalie, a woman away on vacation on a foreign island, hopping in and out of cars with complete or virtual strangers, for Good knows what reasons, doing God know what, is automatically more 'virtuous' than LaToyia, merely based on the fact that Natalie does not have an illegitimate child.

It's scary how many men in this world really hate women and try to rationalize and justify what really boils down to a dislike of women to whatever they can conjure up in their minds to make it the woman's fault.


Well said... and, you know something? I am going to have to agree with you on all counts. Frown
On a positive note, thankfully there are enough wonderful men on this planet who actually do like women as PEOPLE!! Smile Eek bsm
I only just saw my name in bold!

quote:
The misleading lip service from an art_gurl and/or anyone else of similar expression has little value!

It is certain that an art_gurl would be ignored or put in her place by her own Caucasian community if an art_gurl encouraged low moral standards, illegitimate birth, etc., in the Caucasian community!

If I were you, Black people, I wouldn't place much credence in the misguided or misleading views of any misleading liberal Caucasian in an art_gurl..


LOLOL!! Who said I was liberal? LOL! although I am flattered if you think I exert any influence whatsoever - LOL!! - I don't think so! So need to worry there Michael.

I'm not advocating any standards of any kind - immoral or otherwise. I am questioning the value assessment "some people" (a term I have only ever seen used in The Corporation DVD and used by Nmaginate) like to place on certain people.

However, I will say it until everyone on the internet is sick of hearing it... NO ONE PERSON HAS GREATER VALUE OR IS BETTER THAN ANOTHER PERSON.

How we each behave and how we each treat other people is the thing that varies... and it is the behaviour driven by this immoral "moralistic merit system" that I hold contempt for.
You see the divide and rule tactics going on here. This topic is about promiscuous women and some have conveniently turned it into men that hate women topic. WHERE DO YOU GUYS GET OFF.

Why can't can't you be bold and honest as Diamond was and say "I defend Promiscuous women." At least this way we can challenge you to tell us what you are defending. Don't take the cowardly way out by hiding behind the collective womanhood. What is this BS about speaking aginst promiscuous women translates into women bashing generally. Maybe it is selective reading or you would have noticed there are women on the board talking against female promiscuity in this topic as well. Would you accuse them of women hating as well? Hmmmn divide and rule eh?

MBM did this when I said PROMISCUOUS women he changed it to say I said women in general and I ignored it but as as if on cue some of you are following his lead. Well it won't get you far, I promise you. You can wriggle and wiggle as much as you want but the topic would stay on course. This topic is about PROMISCUOUS women and not about women collectively. Learn to read.

This topic deals with one of the core problems facing the black family today. The way our women behave is the fundamental foundation of what determines our future as a race. If you wish to destroy any society you target their women. What do you do exactly when you target the women? What you do is exactly what we are discussing here. Without the moral fabric of the women intact that race or society is in deep trouble. Check your history books and see how the demise of all the great civilizations started with the breakdown of the family. The first sign of trouble is when the family structure begins to crumble and according to various posts on this board this is very evident in the black American society today.

Think about it. Would you EVER buy a car if any time you want a ride you can walk up to a car showroom and drive any car of your choice free of charge and bring it back anytime you feel like? The answer to the question is obvious.

Then ask yourself what value would any man put on women of any race that any time he felt the urge, he can just stroll up and ride one like a horse until he gets bored with her and then change her for another? How much value do you think these women hold in the eyes of anyone.

I don't know but this may explain the phenomena why many black men when when they become successful ditch their black women for women of other races. What else can explain this strange behavior.

We also have the problem where black men are voting with their feet and marrying women from all other races except black women. It is obvious black men are finding these other women are more desirable than the women who look like their mothers. This is not natural behavior on the part of these black men so what is gone wrong? Another question is what is causing this phenomena. My answer is; "it is because of the perception that has gone out that black women are easy slackers and promiscuous." This is not true but this is the impression that has gone out to the rest of the world and we need to do something to stop this false impression of our women.

Do you see the problem and why it is wrong for some of you to hijack the topic and turn it into, "If YOU speak against promiscuous women means you hate women." Get real! Put up or shut up. We have a problem and we need to talk about it. If we can not get the promiscuous women among us to mend their ways at least we can start to name and shame them.

Some of you talk about being defenders of the promiscuous woman. What exactly are you defending? Spell it out cos maybe I'm missing something here. Are you defenders of the fact that these women are usually the marriage wreckers? Or are you defenders of the fact that these women are among the biggest killers of black babies or the fact that they drag the name of the entire black race in the mire. Oh let me see, you don't care about that side of their lives, do you? Yeah right! Some morals you have. Black women are our mothers and how society perceives them reflect on the entire black race. If society perceives our mothers as whores you can imagine what value they place on us as a race. The truth is there is nothing to defend about promiscuous women that is why some of you are dragging the topic off course. You should be ashamed of yourselves to say you defend promiscuous women. I have never met a man that says he defends promiscuous men because after all what is there to defend? It is ridiculous to offer support to people of our community whose actions bring misery to a great deal of innocent people within the the black community.

Also bear in mind what these promiscuous women get up to is not their own business as some would have us believe. Their actions hurt a whole lot of people. They degrade and tarnish the reputation of the entire race of black women. They are baby killers and through their recklessness and subsequent abortions have killed more black people than slavery, the KKK and racist America all put together. Who really then is my enemy eh? Promiscuous women destroy the black family on a grand scale. In short they are the scourge and a danger to the black family and should be rooted out ruthlessly by concerned black people.
"You see the divide and rule tactics going on here. This topic is about promiscuous women and some have conveniently turned it into men that hate women topic. WHERE DO YOU GUYS GET OFF.

Why can't can't you be bold and honest as Diamond was and say "I defend Promiscuous women." At least this way we can challenge you to tell us what you are defending. Don't take the cowardly way out by hiding behind the collective womanhood. What is this BS about speaking aginst promiscuous women translates into women bashing generally. Maybe it is selective reading or you would have noticed there are women on the board talking against female promiscuity in this topic as well. Would you accuse them of women hating as well? Hmmmn divide and rule eh?

MBM did this when I said PROMISCUOUS women he changed it to say I said women in general and I ignored it but as as if on cue some of you are following his lead. Well it won't get you far, I promise you. You can wriggle and wiggle as much as you want but the topic would stay on course. This topic is about PROMISCUOUS women and not about women collectively. Learn to read.

This topic deals with one of the core problems facing the black family today. The way our women behave is the fundamental foundation of what determines our future as a race. If you wish to destroy any society you target their women. What do you do exactly when you target the women? What you do is exactly what we are discussing here. Without the moral fabric of the women intact that race or society is in deep trouble. Check your history books and see how the demise of all the great civilizations started with the breakdown of the family. The first sign of trouble is when the family structure begins to crumble and according to various posts on this board this is very evident in the black American society today.

Think about it. Would you EVER buy a car if any time you want a ride you can walk up to a car showroom and drive any car of your choice free of charge and bring it back anytime you feel like? The answer to the question is obvious.

Then ask yourself what value would any man put on women of any race that any time he felt the urge, he can just stroll up and ride one like a horse until he gets bored with her and then change her for another? How much value do you think these women hold in the eyes of anyone.

I don't know but this may explain the phenomena why many black men when when they become successful ditch their black women for women of other races. What else can explain this strange behavior.

We also have the problem where black men are voting with their feet and marrying women from all other races except black women. It is obvious black men are finding these other women are more desirable than the women who look like their mothers. This is not natural behavior on the part of these black men so what is gone wrong? Another question is what is causing this phenomena. My answer is; "it is because of the perception that has gone out that black women are easy slackers and promiscuous." This is not true but this is the impression that has gone out to the rest of the world and we need to do something to stop this false impression of our women.

Do you see the problem and why it is wrong for some of you to hijack the topic and turn it into, "If YOU speak against promiscuous women means you hate women." Get real! Put up or shut up. We have a problem and we need to talk about it. If we can not get the promiscuous women among us to mend their ways at least we can start to name and shame them.

Some of you talk about being defenders of the promiscuous woman. What exactly are you defending? Spell it out cos maybe I'm missing something here. Are you defenders of the fact that these women are usually the marriage wreckers? Or are you defenders of the fact that these women are among the biggest killers of black babies or the fact that they drag the name of the entire black race in the mire. Oh let me see, you don't care about that side of their lives, do you? Yeah right! Some morals you have. Black women are our mothers and how society perceives them reflect on the entire black race. If society perceives our mothers as whores you can imagine what value they place on us as a race. The truth is there is nothing to defend about promiscuous women that is why some of you are dragging the topic off course. You should be ashamed of yourselves to say you defend promiscuous women. I have never met a man that says he defends promiscuous men because after all what is there to defend? It is ridiculous to offer support to people of our community whose actions bring misery to a great deal of innocent people within the the black community.

Also bear in mind what these promiscuous women get up to is not their own business as some would have us believe. Their actions hurt a whole lot of people. They degrade and tarnish the reputation of the entire race of black women. They are baby killers and through their recklessness and subsequent abortions have killed more black people than slavery, the KKK and racist America all put together. Who really then is my enemy eh? Promiscuous women destroy the black family on a grand scale. In short they are the scourge and a danger to the black family and should be rooted out ruthlessly by concerned black people." by Henry38


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The chance of contracting HIV/Aids is directly proportional to promiscuous sexual activity! Be it within the U.S., Africa, or otherwise, HIV/AIDS is one of the biggest killers of Black people.

****************************

Well said Henry38. As for the art_gurls of the world, you need not reply, or if you do choose to reply, you are of no consequence to this set of circumstances, and you will be ignored, because you have absolutely no connection to the Black community!

....and any Black man or woman who defends, promotes, and/or honors promiscuous behavior or activity is truly a disgrace to themselves and a threat to the Black community! IAn inept Black elected leadership, perverted sexual activity, promiscuity, Black on Black crime, treason from within the Black community, and self-destruction are major factors, that contribute to the death of the Black community!
Sorry but I am not going away from this forum any time soon, as surely as you aren't going away either, despite being asked to by ww.neo-kem.com

Ho hum. I have never encouraged promiscuous behaviour so again you are assuming.

What I have said is do not judge a woman (or man) as being somehow more INFERIOR to another PERSON merely by their behaviour.

My posts have not been to wave a flag of promiscuousness but to fight against people's relish in making their own value judgements of others' behaviour as if making some moral stand - because I believe this behaviour in itself makes a mockery of morality.

It is this incessant judging process (itself) you are all so keen to blindly weigh into (complete with slanderous and derogatory comments about people you have never even met, just read about in the media, the media that you supposedly despise anyway for its own lack of integrity) that I am arguing against.

Whether I am part of the black community or not, I still have the right to an opinion.

It doesn't surpise me that you wish to act as self-appointed censor as well. I would point out I find it rather arrogant for you to appoint yourself as the spokesperson for the whole of the black community.

Especially as you seem to be writing the rules and continue to justify frequent visits to kkk sites as a black person - or is that in disguise? Maybe that's why I am confused about your behaviour being altruistic.

No-one has ever actually asked me what my ethics are so you are hardly in a position to judge me or them when you have no idea what they are. But hey, why ask when you have no doubt already compiled your own pre-judged list.

Yes, there are personal and social principles of morality and ethics and right and wrong. However you haven't chosen any discourse that encourages discussion or moral mindfulness of either... because you are too busy in your role of grand judge and inquisitor of everyone else's behaviour without ever evaluating your own.
I agree with most of what you said, Henry. However, we depart when you theorize that black men are leaving black women, for other races, because of their promiscuity. I don't think this is true. In fact, I believe that the black woman, as a general rule, has yet risen to the level of white female promiscuity. It has not been that long ago that one of the primary reasons that a brother wanted white women is because of the stereotype of them being more promiscuous and willing to do certain things that black women would not do. However, I will say that black women have seemingly been doing a lot of catching up in the last 20 years.

I think that the rise of black men dating other races of women is linked to the need of the male to feel dominant in the relationship and black women are not so easily dominated relative to other races. Of course, this is not an absolute rule, but the general rule of rise in inter-racial relations. Now, I do believe that it is the role of the man to be dominant in the relationship, as generally few women will respect a man she can dominate. Women like men who take charge, but that is not a license to abuse. Thus, instead of becoming stronger and sticking with the black women, many brothers simply choose to date races of women he perceives as weaker, so he can dominate without having to become stronger.

What many brother don't realize is that much of the attitude of the black women is simply a sheild for protection. That sheild can and is often lowered once a brother proves himself worthy of following and dominance.
quote:
Originally posted by henry38:

This topic is about promiscuous women and some have conveniently turned it into men that hate women topic. WHERE DO YOU GUYS GET OFF.


Because the very theme of this thread/topic is logically and morally bankrupt.

First - what is the point of characterizing someone as "promiscuous"? What purpose does it serve? How does it advance humanity in any meaningful way? How does it strengthen relationships between human beings? What's the point?

I can hear Henry38 saying - "well, they ARE promiscuous". How does that differ from someone calling you a nigger? You say, well their behavior makes them promiscuous. They say, well your skin color makes you a nigger. Does that get us anywhere? Again, what's the point?

More importantly - THERE WOULD BE NO "PROMISCUOUS" WOMEN IF MEN WEREN'T SLEEPING WITH THEM. It is the most ridiculous argument to me to malign women when the behavior you attack is wholly dependent upon their interaction with men.

No men. No "promiscuity".

Why not chide men to keep their dicks in their pants? That would immediately solve the problem!

If there is promiscuity in the world it is a HUMAN problem, not a female problem. Ignoring the male role in this issue is immoral, illogical, sexist, and downright foolish. nono
MBM, mathematically, men don't have to be promiscuous for a woman to be promiscuous. Promiscuity implies a one-to-many relationship. Thus, one women being with many men does not imply one man getting with many women. Hence, male promiscuity is not a prerequisite for female promiscuity and visa versa.

Women generally don't have a problem with male promiscuity as long as it is past tense. Many appreciate the skill sets from such exploits and in a sense, reward the behavior. On other hand, a man does not want a promiscuous women past or present tense, for as wife material, but only as their "bottom itchB". Therefore, promiscuous behaviors by women have much different consequences and risk than doe's male promiscuity. That having been said, all fornication and adultery are equally sinful.
quote:
Originally posted by Noah The African:

MBM, mathematically, men don't have to be promiscuous for a woman to be promiscuous.


Well, mathematically, it would seem like the numbers, intuitively, tell a different story. There are more females than males on this earth. In the black community, because of mortality, incarceration, and sexual preference - there are even fewer black males for each female. Therefore, the numbers suggest that each man has, on average, more than one female "to choose from". The converse of this is that each woman has, on average, less than one man to choose from. As with musical chairs, that leaves many women without men when the music stops. Hence, just from a numbers perspective, it would seem like promiscuity is probably more of a male issue than female.

Beyond that, which is the more common association: of a man being a "dog" or of a female being a "ho"? How many men do you know that ARE dogs versus how many females that are "ho's"? As you infer, society honors male promiscuity. Does that make their behavior any less promiscuous however?

quote:
Promiscuity implies a one-to-many relationship. Thus, one women being with many men does not imply one man getting with many women. Hence, male promiscuity is not a prerequisite for female promiscuity and visa versa.


I guarantee you - get a sample of 100 black men and 100 black women. Ask them how many partners they have had in their lives. Which do you think, on average, will have had MORE partners?

BTW - I have no doubt that the men will have had more partners. Who then is more promiscuous, men or women? As I said in a previous post, if promiscuity is a problem - it is a HUMAN problem.

quote:
Women generally don't have a problem with male promiscuity as long as it is past tense. Many appreciate the skill sets from such exploits and in a sense, reward the behavior.


I disagree. In this day and age who wants to be with anyone who has "been around the block"? Beyond that, that society rewards men for their promiscuity has nothing to do with the fact that they are, in fact, promiscuous. My point is that blaming women for behavior that, by definition, includes men is absolutely nonsensical.

Furthermore, if there are MORE women than men - then if you infer rampant female promiscuity - then you also, by definiton, infer male promiscuity. The women can't be having sex promiscuously if the men aren't as well.

quote:
On other hand, a man does not want a promiscuous women past or present tense, for as wife material, but only as their "bottom itchB". Therefore, promiscuous behaviors by women have much different consequences and risk than doe's male promiscuity.


Basically you are explaining away male promiscuity because of male sexism. Sexism is wrong; it is morally repugnent and logically void.
Most or your statements stand vacuously true, MBM. In other words, I cannot refute most of what you said. That having been said, your rebuttal does NOT serve as the logical contradiction of what I presented. Again, I am simply speaking of what is mathematically possible, not what manifest in practice. Mathematically, promiscuity of a male or female does NOT require promiscuity of opposite gender. If 100 men have only been with one women each, in a years time, but each shared that one women, it is not the men who are promiscuous....but rather the women. Thus, this one female's promiscuity was not predicated upon the promiscuity of the men she was involved with. Now of course, in reality, men are more promiscuous than women, but that has nothing to do with what is mathematically possible. Hence, I stand by my statement that you were incorrect in alluding that female promiscuity needs male promiscuity to manifest. This is what I gleaned from your original statements, but I could have misinterpreted them.

I cannot bare witness to collective women's though processes. I am not a woman and cannot speak as an expert of what women think. However, I have bared witness to the behavior of many women and assuming that such behavior is born from free will and not force then I can only conclude that they do indeed find favor in promiscuous behavior in men. I think women like an "experienced man" who knows how to treat and please a lady in the sheets. The more promiscuous you are, the more "experienced you are", as a general rule. I don't think that many women want a "virgin" man as a husband as compared with men who would want a "virgin" wife.

Of course I am explaining away male promiscuity. In other words, I am explaining why there is a difference. The bottom line is that if women want to break down the double standard of such behavior, then they need to stop rewarding it. The double standard is born from the male's reaction to promiscuous females vs. the female's reaction to promiscuous men. Women cannot and will not ever be able to control how males view promiscuous women. Not going to happen. However, what they can control is how they view and treat promiscuous men. Instead of trying to change how males view and treat promiscuous women, leveling the double standard can be accomplished by changing the way females view and treat promiscuous men. In other words, women do not DISRESPECT a promiscous man to the same degree that a man DISRESPECT a promicouis woman. Given that the behavior is frowned upon in all religions, it should be that women learn to disrespect and stop rewarding promiscous behavior in men rather than men learning to accept and reward promicious behavior in females. The genders will continue to bahave in the manner in which the opposite sex rewards such behavior. Hence, to change behavior is to change the behaviors that we reward.
quote:
Originally posted by Noah The African:

Instead of trying to change how males view and treat promiscuous women, leveling the double standard can be accomplished by changing the way females view and treat promiscuous men.


Since it seems that we are speaking more theoretically than not, what role do men play - in your opinion - in this issue?
I don't think that men have any role to play in regards to female promiscuity. That is women's decision and domain. Once a woman makes her decision then she should be willing to accept the consequences of that decision, which can include disease, pregnancy and being ostracized as a "Ho" by male society. She also must weigh her goals and desires as an individual against the goals and desires of collective womanhood. Often times, things that are to the benefit of the individual can and often are to the detriment of the collective or group.

It is my opinion that female promiscuity reduces the attractiveness of females as wives and relegates them to sexual friendships. If marriage is a collective goal of womanhood, then female promiscuity works against this collective goal. It also works against the concept of family and hinder the optimal condition that children are best raised under.
It's not a mutually exclusive issue. However, men simply don't face the same risk and it is therefore much harder to change the behavior of men when there is little risk involved, relative to such a pleasurable reward. The benefit/cost analysis is in the man's favor, but not in the women's favor. Besides, the greatest sphere of influence of the women is women, not men. Therefore if they have an issue with the double standard, they should exercise a solution from their greatest sphere of influence...which is to start treating promiscuous men with the disrespect men treat promiscuous women. In a hedonistic culture and society, the pull for equality is to emulate the level of acceptance for female promiscuity as opposed to reducing the level of acceptance of male promiscuity. It's like many women are made because they want the ability to be whores and respected and desired as wives and mothers at the same time, just as they respect and desire the skills born from male whores. That's backwards if the goal is a more righteous society.
quote:
Originally posted by Noah The African:

That's backwards if the goal is a more righteous society.


If that is the goal, to enhance society, then I cannot see how any solution to this problem can include only half of the parties involved in the behavior that is troublesome. **This is particularly thet case when men are the ones encouraging women into this behavior for self serving reasons.**

  • If men were more interested in commitment, society would be better.

  • If men were more faithful to their partners, then society would be better.

  • If men were more interested in commitment in general, society would be better.

  • If men didn't lie and cheat and steal and do whatever it takes to have sex with women, then society would be better.

  • If men would take responsibility for their children, then society would be better.

    Would not ALL of the issues that you have with female promiscuity be solved by positive changes in male behavior?

    Why does the responsibility for the health of scoeity, or even the family, rest solely on the woman's shoulders? How is this reflective of the role that men play in creating the problems?
  • Well, as a system analyst, when something is not working, that was working; the first thing we ask is "what changed". In dealing with what going on now, the "what changed" is certainly not the behavior of men. What has changed is the availability of women who do not withhold sex until marriage. This increases the supply and variety available for male whores who want to get with as many women as possible. The more female fornicators, the less attractive marriage becomes due to the "opportunity cost" associated with getting married. Why get married when a man can have everything, and more, while not being married that they can get while married. A man can have sex, children and a variety of women while single, which is better than marriage for many men. This plays right into male's biological nature and role as the sperm bank for humanity. Thus, what I am saying is that male behavior is controlled via what behavior of men women reward. Male behavior will not change by attempting to appeal to their minds, you have to present a case to our groin area and only women can present that case by virtue of what behaviors they will reward with sex.

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