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From the ASCENT Blog, 10.25.05:

"It's not that we don't think Rice should be challenged on her policy positions or political affiliation. In fact, we're finding her somewhat lacking in some areas and too eager to maintain Administration status-quo. But, we are troubled when individuals such as Rice, or Powell or others we'll pass naming at this moment, are challenged based primarily on the degree of their perceived "Blackness" rather than on the merits of the policy. Shake her down because you disagree with her stand on, say, Kazakhstan. Engage her breadth of knowledge with yours. But, the I'm Blacker Than You rhyme gets tired, and frankly, looks foolish. This always sets a dangerous precedent. Robinson implies that Rice may be less Black because her foreign policy stands and career choices stray from some sort of unwritten covenant on what it is 'to be Black.'

How then is "Black" defined?"

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Black is defined as having a mindset that automatically gravitates towards thinking in the interest of black people amongst the choices for any given topic or is a pro-black mindset....and that is why blkCONS who vote for things that are adverse to the opportunities black people have they are referred to as is like they have an inner desire to not be black, so they'll do whatever to distance themselves from the black affiliation or philosophy..........
In fact, we're finding her somewhat lacking in some areas and too eager to maintain Administration status-quo.


Can I ask you a question?

Can you show many any ink that you had spilled in challenging:

Mike Espy, former Ag Sect on why he didn't do right by the Black farmers when he was the boss of the regional managers in HIS department who were using racial discrimination to not hand out loans to Black Farmers? Instead he was accused of accepting gifts from the same CORPORATIONS that he was charged with regulating. Do you think the Black farmers came up as an issue when he flew on the private jet to the Super Bowl?

Do you think Hazel O'Leary as Energy Secretary had the US Energy companies to not spew as much soot on Black communities from their smoke stacks? What about her asking them to "Do right" in Nigera?

What about Rodney Slater at Transportation? Did he increase minority contracting WELL IN EXCESS than if there was a WHITE MAN sitting in his seat?

You see, Black(Democratic) I am not challenging your right to be critical....I AM CHALLENGING YOUR HIGHLY SELECTIVE USE OF YOUR MEASURING DEVICE. It seems that your measuring device is not to "tare" any longer.

Where was your "voice" back then my brother?

What about the scores of Black mayors and elected officials that are all about this land? Why do you only reserve your judgement against those who don't carry the same water bucket that you carry?

Are you measuring these people's EFFECTIVENESS at executing their agenda OR are you measuring their EFFECTIVENESS at staying true to what YOU BELIEVE? Your silence on others tells me that a Black Democrat official, as long as he stays true to what you believe WILL NEVER be held accountable by you of his ACTUAL RESULTS.

This is truely sad.
Well, I definitely disagree with her political stand and her career choice and willingness to fluff up the Republican pillow behind her adored boss' head.

As far as the problem I have with her "blackness" (or lack thereof) ... that's primarily due to her preference not to be affiliated with her own people. She's the one that would prefer not to be looked at as the first African American (whatver) and instead just be (whatever). At least Powell would, every now and them, admit that he realized that it was a Black man he saw in the mirror ... even if he was a master pillow-fluffer, himself! Eek
Dr. Condoleezza Rice became the Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs, commonly referred to as the National Security Advisor, on January 22, 2001.

In June 1999, she completed a six year tenure as Stanford University 's Provost, during which she was the institution's chief budget and academic officer. As Provost she was responsible for a $1.5 billion annual budget and the academic program involving 1,400 faculty members and 14,000 students.

As professor of political science, Dr. Rice has been on the Stanford faculty since 1981 and has won two of the highest teaching honors -- the 1984 Walter J. Gores Award for Excellence in Teaching and the 1993 School of Humanities and Sciences Dean's Award for Distinguished Teaching.

At Stanford, she has been a member of the Center for International Security and Arms Control, a Senior Fellow of the Institute for International Studies, and a Fellow (by courtesy) of the Hoover Institution. Her books include Germany Unified and Europe Transformed (1995) with Philip Zelikow, The Gorbachev Era (1986) with Alexander Dallin, and Uncertain Allegiance: The Soviet Union and the Czechoslovak Army (1984). She also has written numerous articles on Soviet and East European foreign and defense policy, and has addressed audiences in settings ranging from the U.S. Ambassador's Residence in Moscow to the Commonwealth Club to the 1992 and 2000 Republican National Conventions.

From 1989 through March 1991, the period of German reunification and the final days of the Soviet Union, she served in the Bush Administration as Director, and then Senior Director, of Soviet and East European Affairs in the National Security Council, and a Special Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs. In 1986, while an international affairs fellow of the Council on Foreign Relations, she served as Special Assistant to the Director of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. In 1997, she served on the Federal Advisory Committee on Gender -- Integrated Training in the Military.

She was a member of the boards of directors for the Chevron Corporation, the Charles Schwab Corporation, the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation, the University of Notre Dame, the International Advisory Council of J.P. Morgan and the San Francisco Symphony Board of Governors. She was a Founding Board member of the Center for a New Generation, an educational support fund for schools in East Palo Alto and East Menlo Park, California and was Vice President of the Boys and Girls Club of the Peninsula . In addition, her past board service has encompassed such organizations as Transamerica Corporation, Hewlett Packard, the Carnegie Corporation, Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, The Rand Corporation, the National Council for Soviet and East European Studies, the Mid-Peninsula Urban Coalition and KQED, public broadcasting for San Francisco.

Born November 14, 1954 in Birmingham, Alabama, she earned her bachelor's degree in political science, cum laude and Phi Beta Kappa, from the University of Denver in 1974; her master's from the University of Notre Dame in 1975; and her Ph.D. from the Graduate School of International Studies at the University of Denver in 1981. She is a Fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences and has been awarded honorary doctorates from Morehouse College in 1991, the University of Alabama in 1994, the University of Notre Dame in 1995, the National Defense University in 2002, the Mississippi College School of Law in 2003, the University of Louisville and Michigan State University in 2004. She resides in Washington, D.C.
Regardless of her political views, when I turn on my t.v., I see a Black woman, and our children see a woman who looks like them. We are not going to all stand for the same things. Everytime a Black person gets a "little" power we find a way to distance ourselves from them. We should be proud. Usually the only people that our young ladies can look up to are shaking their behinds in videos. Now they don't just see entertainers but a strong political figure.
Why would those in a position of power care how the rabble defines Black? It should be of no consequence.

If you (not you specifically, but generally) feel that the Blacker-than-thou crowd has it wrong, then you have no worries because right will prevail in due time. Personally, I think those Black folks need other Black folks more than they admit. That, despite their opposition to much of what is believed by the people who frequent this board, they come to places like Africanamerica regularly.

Contrary to vehement public proclamations as to what is wrong with the overall ideology of the participants, the opposers take precious time out of their day to be in the midst of those they oppose and often look down on. They will be the first to tell us that they don't mind being without the presence of other people of African descent, and in the next breath insist they will continue to engage the members in conversation (such as it is) and have a compelling desire to influence the "direction" of the group.

Would it make Condoleeza tha' Skeeza feel better if we all sent her a letter telling her she is hereby certified to be as black as coal? Will she and her supporters sleep better at night?
Last edited {1}
Originally posted by blackbutterfly:
...we find a way to distance ourselves from them. We should be proud. Usually the only people that our young ladies can look up to are shaking their behinds in videos. Now they don't just see entertainers but a strong political figure.

She has distanced herself from the majority of African people. Perhaps she is reaping what she's sown.

There's no reason to be proud of her if you do not agree with her politics. I don't and simply because she's Black doesn't earn my pride or respect. She has attached her star to a corrupt administration. She was not qualified to be Nat'l Sec. Advisor (she's not alone in this administration of not being qualified for their former and current positions), and she is certainly not qualified to be in the position Powell vacated. She's not a diplomat, and it shows. There is no reason to be proud of her because she shares the color of my skin. She remains a Skeeza!
Originally posted by blackbutterfly:
We should be proud. Usually the only people that our young ladies can look up to are shaking their behinds in videos. ...

Absolutely nothing to be proud of --
    Lawrence Wilkerson, the former head of the Marine War College who had served as chief of staff to former Secretary of State Colin Powell, revealed the inner struggles of the Bush administration in a speech before the New America Foundation on Oct. 19. A "Cheney-Rumsfeld cabal" ran U.S. foreign policy for a president "not versed in international relations and not too much interested." Wilkerson defined the Bush doctrine as "cowboyism." Condoleezza Rice as national security advisor was "extremely weak" and more interested in "her intimacy with the president" than in acting as an honest broker. Cleaning up after Bush's tarnishing of America's image in the world was an impossible task. "It's hard to sell shit," said Wilkerson.

There are a plethora of Black women for young Black girls to be proud of; the key is to show them to the young Black girl in your charge and not allow her to believe that starring in a rump-shaking video, or serving as a political appointee in a corrupt administration are the hallmarks of success.

    On September 15, the US Congress approved a resolution authorizing President Bush to use "all necessary and appropriate force" against anyone associated with the terrorist attacks of September 11. The measure passed 98-0 in the Senate and 420-1 in the House. The lone dissenting vote was a colonel's daughter and longtime maverick from California -- Democrat Barbara Lee.

Now everytime you turn around people are screaming about the Patriot Act. Barbara acted out of a sense of right and wrong and as it turns out, most people now believe she was right. She is someone to be proud of.
Ummm ... okay, Cobb ....

But is she a card-carrying member of the NAACP, is the question?? Confused bsm

blackbutterfly & Isome ...

I see both of your points. Smile

Me, personally, I fully recognize and acknowledge that Condi is a very accomplished woman, as I believe our friend Cobb was trying to point out in his post. She has been a powerhouse in both education and politics ... and she definitely should be respected and even looked up to for her accomplishments.

However, she is also sleeping with the enemy. She upholds and supports and institutes policies that are detrimental to Black people. And sistah-girl is a Black woman, whether she wants to admit to it or not! And oftentimes, it's not.

I, myself, neither like nor dislike her. She doesn't float my boat one way or the other. She has equal weight on both sides of it ... the good and the bad. So, as long as she doesn't sink me, it's all good! Smile
She has distanced herself from the majority of African people. Perhaps she is reaping what she's sown.


Why is it that Blacks who are Left of Center tend to run on the concept that the "Mass is always RIGHT" concept rather than "We have the right set of thoughts AND HERE IS OUR PROOF BASED ON THE RESULTS THAT WE HAVE OBTAINED AS SHOWN BY THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE BLACK MASSES FOR THE BETTER?"

Should all Black people be forced to stick with the crowd rather than to be allowed to follow where their life experiences and understandings take them?

There are few Blacks on the typical college level swim teams. Should we avoid this?

There are few Blacks in certain engineering professions. Stay away?

My wife's friend is studying to become a doctor of Anthropology. Not too much color in the academic ranks despite the fact they study many people of color. Should she back off because this is not a "mainline Black area of study?"

I am more interested in Black people WHO HAVE NOT DISTANCED THEMSELVES FROM THE BLACK MASSES but who's PRODUCT as they EXPLOIT their "membership" has allowed them TO GET AWAY WITH PROJECTING IMAGES that no "enemy" would EVER, EVER, EVER be able to get away with.

The SAMBO ENTERTAINER is doing much more GLOBAL HARM to Black people than anything that you can charge Condi Rice with doing to harm Black folks. Not even close.

When the MEASURING DEVICE that you and others are shown to have more FIDELITY AND INTEGRITY then I believe that Dr. Rice and other Blacks who's only crime is that THEY DON'T THINK AS YOU DO should consider your views. I have learned that it is far more revealing to consider the Blacks who violate "the Black trust" but receive NO REBUKE than to listen as you and other rail against some Blacks because of their ideological stances. This shows the lack of integrity of the measure that is being made. It shows a sould of INJUSTICE held within those who frequently call for JUSTICE.
Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:

The SAMBO ENTERTAINER is doing much more GLOBAL HARM to Black people than anything that you can charge Condi Rice with doing to harm Black folks. Not even close.

How many people die as a result of a tasteless rap video? How many people die as a result of an illegitimate war? CF - you do the math.
Originally posted by MBM:

How many people die as a result of a tasteless rap video? How many people die as a result of an illegitimate war? CF - you do the math.

Again - the FLAW in your argument is the lie that has been propagated that the mass DEATH in Iraq started from the invastion.

MBM: You are a hypocrite in the worst way. You condemn death but only reserve your focus on the death of 2001 Americans. For years the people of Iraq suffered abundant death yet you remained silent. The same forces who are fighting this war also backed the POLICY that allowed for GUNS to remain silent yet they waged an ECONOMIC WAR on Iraq and also stood by while the program that they set up "Oil For Food" was used as a financial racketeering mechanism to enrich those who are in power.

Which POLICY would tend to kill more people MBM - a street gun battle in which those who are participants are the more likely to be killed with stray bullets killing innocents while the masses take cover?

Or a POLICY in which all of the hospitals and grocery stores of this same community are virtually shut down and the masses have "no where to hide" as they are impacted from not having basic elements of life?

It is quite amazing how the different choices and values are expressed with respect to the leadership at the top of the USA at the time. Though it is true that the War effort has had more American lives taken away and more money spent the FAILED policy that this war replaced was longer enduring yet offered no movement forward toward a resolution and was FAR MORE DEADLY and all encompassing upon the innocent people of Iraq.

The only thing that you can say is that "Fewer American guns were fired and few American lives were lost as they were in Airplanes dropping bombs for 10 years on Iraqi targets that 'threatened them'.
When all is said and done Dr. Rice is an American of unknown African ancestry.

She is 'black' in our society.

She is Dr. Condolezza Rice in most of the remainder of the world.

Dr. Rice is derided at home.

It's what we do. We think African Americans should 'do something' to admit their commonality with us.

Simply being 'black' is not enough.

I think Dr. Rice has a problem in verbally reconciling her ethnicity with her upbringing and her public life.

I DO NOT think Dr. Rice is a bigot. I don't think anyone is saying she is.

She just doesn't do 'it' right.

When she says 'We' it doesn't feel like it means 'us'n's'.

It sounds like it means we as Americans.

She never seems to claim her heritage.

And...I'm still proud of her as one of us.


Jim Chester

I think Dr. Rice has a problem in verbally reconciling her ethnicity with her upbringing and her public life.

Dr. Rice is derided at home.


Can we agree that this is YOUR VIEW and interpretation of Dr Rice and that you don't know that this represent HER OWN THOUGHTS?

In MY VIEW she is a Black Female in good standing and certainly worthy of a role model for my Black daughter.

I only wish that YOU and others would be more verbal about the Black people WHO ARE ACCEPTED INTO THE FOLD who "VERBALLY RECONSILE THEIR ETHNICITY WITH THEIR ENTERTAINMENT CAREERS as they profit from SAMBO musich that depicts their UPBRINGING in the Ghetto in a very disrespectful and exploitative manner".

Dr. Rice HAS DONE NOTHING TO HARM BLACK AMERICA. You all simply don't like the Bush policies and you are targeting anyone who stands with these policies.

Somewhere around the world is an extremist who does not distinguish YOU from the American policies that have impacted his people for more than 50 years as they focus their anger against Israel. In an attack he is not going to take the time to point out your personal views as distinguished from american policy. He is going to look at your passport as you travel and claim your dead body as a trophy for his movement.

Again I have to wonder why you don't hold the members of Congress who have voted in support of American policy (ie: support for war funding) to the same standard?

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