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From the ASCENT Blog, 10.25.05:

"It's not that we don't think Rice should be challenged on her policy positions or political affiliation. In fact, we're finding her somewhat lacking in some areas and too eager to maintain Administration status-quo. But, we are troubled when individuals such as Rice, or Powell or others we'll pass naming at this moment, are challenged based primarily on the degree of their perceived "Blackness" rather than on the merits of the policy. Shake her down because you disagree with her stand on, say, Kazakhstan. Engage her breadth of knowledge with yours. But, the I'm Blacker Than You rhyme gets tired, and frankly, looks foolish. This always sets a dangerous precedent. Robinson implies that Rice may be less Black because her foreign policy stands and career choices stray from some sort of unwritten covenant on what it is 'to be Black.'

How then is "Black" defined?"

For more of this blog, go to Blackpolicy.org
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Black is defined as having a mindset that automatically gravitates towards thinking in the interest of black people amongst the choices for any given topic or issue.....it is a pro-black mindset....and that is why blkCONS who vote for things that are adverse to the opportunities black people have they are referred to as such......it is like they have an inner desire to not be black, so they'll do whatever to distance themselves from the black majority...by affiliation or philosophy..........
quote:
In fact, we're finding her somewhat lacking in some areas and too eager to maintain Administration status-quo.



Black(Democratic)Policy.org:

Can I ask you a question?

Can you show many any ink that you had spilled in challenging:

Mike Espy, former Ag Sect on why he didn't do right by the Black farmers when he was the boss of the regional managers in HIS department who were using racial discrimination to not hand out loans to Black Farmers? Instead he was accused of accepting gifts from the same CORPORATIONS that he was charged with regulating. Do you think the Black farmers came up as an issue when he flew on the private jet to the Super Bowl?

Do you think Hazel O'Leary as Energy Secretary had the US Energy companies to not spew as much soot on Black communities from their smoke stacks? What about her asking them to "Do right" in Nigera?

What about Rodney Slater at Transportation? Did he increase minority contracting WELL IN EXCESS than if there was a WHITE MAN sitting in his seat?

You see, Black(Democratic)Policy.org I am not challenging your right to be critical....I AM CHALLENGING YOUR HIGHLY SELECTIVE USE OF YOUR MEASURING DEVICE. It seems that your measuring device is not to "tare" any longer.

Where was your "voice" back then my brother?

What about the scores of Black mayors and elected officials that are all about this land? Why do you only reserve your judgement against those who don't carry the same water bucket that you carry?

Are you measuring these people's EFFECTIVENESS at executing their agenda OR are you measuring their EFFECTIVENESS at staying true to what YOU BELIEVE? Your silence on others tells me that a Black Democrat official, as long as he stays true to what you believe WILL NEVER be held accountable by you of his ACTUAL RESULTS.

This is truely sad.
Well, I definitely disagree with her political stand and her career choice and willingness to fluff up the Republican pillow behind her adored boss' head.

As far as the problem I have with her "blackness" (or lack thereof) ... that's primarily due to her preference not to be affiliated with her own people. She's the one that would prefer not to be looked at as the first African American (whatver) and instead just be (whatever). At least Powell would, every now and them, admit that he realized that it was a Black man he saw in the mirror ... even if he was a master pillow-fluffer, himself! Eek
Dr. Condoleezza Rice became the Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs, commonly referred to as the National Security Advisor, on January 22, 2001.

In June 1999, she completed a six year tenure as Stanford University 's Provost, during which she was the institution's chief budget and academic officer. As Provost she was responsible for a $1.5 billion annual budget and the academic program involving 1,400 faculty members and 14,000 students.

As professor of political science, Dr. Rice has been on the Stanford faculty since 1981 and has won two of the highest teaching honors -- the 1984 Walter J. Gores Award for Excellence in Teaching and the 1993 School of Humanities and Sciences Dean's Award for Distinguished Teaching.

At Stanford, she has been a member of the Center for International Security and Arms Control, a Senior Fellow of the Institute for International Studies, and a Fellow (by courtesy) of the Hoover Institution. Her books include Germany Unified and Europe Transformed (1995) with Philip Zelikow, The Gorbachev Era (1986) with Alexander Dallin, and Uncertain Allegiance: The Soviet Union and the Czechoslovak Army (1984). She also has written numerous articles on Soviet and East European foreign and defense policy, and has addressed audiences in settings ranging from the U.S. Ambassador's Residence in Moscow to the Commonwealth Club to the 1992 and 2000 Republican National Conventions.

From 1989 through March 1991, the period of German reunification and the final days of the Soviet Union, she served in the Bush Administration as Director, and then Senior Director, of Soviet and East European Affairs in the National Security Council, and a Special Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs. In 1986, while an international affairs fellow of the Council on Foreign Relations, she served as Special Assistant to the Director of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. In 1997, she served on the Federal Advisory Committee on Gender -- Integrated Training in the Military.

She was a member of the boards of directors for the Chevron Corporation, the Charles Schwab Corporation, the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation, the University of Notre Dame, the International Advisory Council of J.P. Morgan and the San Francisco Symphony Board of Governors. She was a Founding Board member of the Center for a New Generation, an educational support fund for schools in East Palo Alto and East Menlo Park, California and was Vice President of the Boys and Girls Club of the Peninsula . In addition, her past board service has encompassed such organizations as Transamerica Corporation, Hewlett Packard, the Carnegie Corporation, Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, The Rand Corporation, the National Council for Soviet and East European Studies, the Mid-Peninsula Urban Coalition and KQED, public broadcasting for San Francisco.

Born November 14, 1954 in Birmingham, Alabama, she earned her bachelor's degree in political science, cum laude and Phi Beta Kappa, from the University of Denver in 1974; her master's from the University of Notre Dame in 1975; and her Ph.D. from the Graduate School of International Studies at the University of Denver in 1981. She is a Fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences and has been awarded honorary doctorates from Morehouse College in 1991, the University of Alabama in 1994, the University of Notre Dame in 1995, the National Defense University in 2002, the Mississippi College School of Law in 2003, the University of Louisville and Michigan State University in 2004. She resides in Washington, D.C.
Regardless of her political views, when I turn on my t.v., I see a Black woman, and our children see a woman who looks like them. We are not going to all stand for the same things. Everytime a Black person gets a "little" power we find a way to distance ourselves from them. We should be proud. Usually the only people that our young ladies can look up to are shaking their behinds in videos. Now they don't just see entertainers but a strong political figure.
Why would those in a position of power care how the rabble defines Black? It should be of no consequence.

If you (not you specifically, but generally) feel that the Blacker-than-thou crowd has it wrong, then you have no worries because right will prevail in due time. Personally, I think those Black folks need other Black folks more than they admit. That, despite their opposition to much of what is believed by the people who frequent this board, they come to places like Africanamerica regularly.

Contrary to vehement public proclamations as to what is wrong with the overall ideology of the participants, the opposers take precious time out of their day to be in the midst of those they oppose and often look down on. They will be the first to tell us that they don't mind being without the presence of other people of African descent, and in the next breath insist they will continue to engage the members in conversation (such as it is) and have a compelling desire to influence the "direction" of the group.

Would it make Condoleeza tha' Skeeza feel better if we all sent her a letter telling her she is hereby certified to be as black as coal? Will she and her supporters sleep better at night?
Last edited {1}
quote:
Originally posted by blackbutterfly:
...we find a way to distance ourselves from them. We should be proud. Usually the only people that our young ladies can look up to are shaking their behinds in videos. Now they don't just see entertainers but a strong political figure.


She has distanced herself from the majority of African people. Perhaps she is reaping what she's sown.

There's no reason to be proud of her if you do not agree with her politics. I don't and simply because she's Black doesn't earn my pride or respect. She has attached her star to a corrupt administration. She was not qualified to be Nat'l Sec. Advisor (she's not alone in this administration of not being qualified for their former and current positions), and she is certainly not qualified to be in the position Powell vacated. She's not a diplomat, and it shows. There is no reason to be proud of her because she shares the color of my skin. She remains a Skeeza!
quote:
Originally posted by blackbutterfly:
We should be proud. Usually the only people that our young ladies can look up to are shaking their behinds in videos. ...


Absolutely nothing to be proud of --
    Lawrence Wilkerson, the former head of the Marine War College who had served as chief of staff to former Secretary of State Colin Powell, revealed the inner struggles of the Bush administration in a speech before the New America Foundation on Oct. 19. A "Cheney-Rumsfeld cabal" ran U.S. foreign policy for a president "not versed in international relations and not too much interested." Wilkerson defined the Bush doctrine as "cowboyism." Condoleezza Rice as national security advisor was "extremely weak" and more interested in "her intimacy with the president" than in acting as an honest broker. Cleaning up after Bush's tarnishing of America's image in the world was an impossible task. "It's hard to sell shit," said Wilkerson.


There are a plethora of Black women for young Black girls to be proud of; the key is to show them to the young Black girl in your charge and not allow her to believe that starring in a rump-shaking video, or serving as a political appointee in a corrupt administration are the hallmarks of success.

    On September 15, the US Congress approved a resolution authorizing President Bush to use "all necessary and appropriate force" against anyone associated with the terrorist attacks of September 11. The measure passed 98-0 in the Senate and 420-1 in the House. The lone dissenting vote was a colonel's daughter and longtime maverick from California -- Democrat Barbara Lee.

Now everytime you turn around people are screaming about the Patriot Act. Barbara acted out of a sense of right and wrong and as it turns out, most people now believe she was right. She is someone to be proud of.
Ummm ... okay, Cobb ....

But is she a card-carrying member of the NAACP, is the question?? Confused bsm

blackbutterfly & Isome ...

I see both of your points. Smile

Me, personally, I fully recognize and acknowledge that Condi is a very accomplished woman, as I believe our friend Cobb was trying to point out in his post. She has been a powerhouse in both education and politics ... and she definitely should be respected and even looked up to for her accomplishments.

However, she is also sleeping with the enemy. She upholds and supports and institutes policies that are detrimental to Black people. And sistah-girl is a Black woman, whether she wants to admit to it or not! And oftentimes, it's not.

I, myself, neither like nor dislike her. She doesn't float my boat one way or the other. She has equal weight on both sides of it ... the good and the bad. So, as long as she doesn't sink me, it's all good! Smile
quote:
She has distanced herself from the majority of African people. Perhaps she is reaping what she's sown.



Isome:

Why is it that Blacks who are Left of Center tend to run on the concept that the "Mass is always RIGHT" concept rather than "We have the right set of thoughts AND HERE IS OUR PROOF BASED ON THE RESULTS THAT WE HAVE OBTAINED AS SHOWN BY THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE BLACK MASSES FOR THE BETTER?"

Should all Black people be forced to stick with the crowd rather than to be allowed to follow where their life experiences and understandings take them?

There are few Blacks on the typical college level swim teams. Should we avoid this?

There are few Blacks in certain engineering professions. Stay away?

My wife's friend is studying to become a doctor of Anthropology. Not too much color in the academic ranks despite the fact they study many people of color. Should she back off because this is not a "mainline Black area of study?"

I am more interested in Black people WHO HAVE NOT DISTANCED THEMSELVES FROM THE BLACK MASSES but who's PRODUCT as they EXPLOIT their "membership" has allowed them TO GET AWAY WITH PROJECTING IMAGES that no "enemy" would EVER, EVER, EVER be able to get away with.

The SAMBO ENTERTAINER is doing much more GLOBAL HARM to Black people than anything that you can charge Condi Rice with doing to harm Black folks. Not even close.

When the MEASURING DEVICE that you and others are shown to have more FIDELITY AND INTEGRITY then I believe that Dr. Rice and other Blacks who's only crime is that THEY DON'T THINK AS YOU DO should consider your views. I have learned that it is far more revealing to consider the Blacks who violate "the Black trust" but receive NO REBUKE than to listen as you and other rail against some Blacks because of their ideological stances. This shows the lack of integrity of the measure that is being made. It shows a sould of INJUSTICE held within those who frequently call for JUSTICE.
quote:
Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:

The SAMBO ENTERTAINER is doing much more GLOBAL HARM to Black people than anything that you can charge Condi Rice with doing to harm Black folks. Not even close.


How many people die as a result of a tasteless rap video? How many people die as a result of an illegitimate war? CF - you do the math.
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:


How many people die as a result of a tasteless rap video? How many people die as a result of an illegitimate war? CF - you do the math.


Again - the FLAW in your argument is the lie that has been propagated that the mass DEATH in Iraq started from the invastion.



MBM: You are a hypocrite in the worst way. You condemn death but only reserve your focus on the death of 2001 Americans. For years the people of Iraq suffered abundant death yet you remained silent. The same forces who are fighting this war also backed the POLICY that allowed for GUNS to remain silent yet they waged an ECONOMIC WAR on Iraq and also stood by while the program that they set up "Oil For Food" was used as a financial racketeering mechanism to enrich those who are in power.

Which POLICY would tend to kill more people MBM - a street gun battle in which those who are participants are the more likely to be killed with stray bullets killing innocents while the masses take cover?

Or a POLICY in which all of the hospitals and grocery stores of this same community are virtually shut down and the masses have "no where to hide" as they are impacted from not having basic elements of life?

It is quite amazing how the different choices and values are expressed with respect to the leadership at the top of the USA at the time. Though it is true that the War effort has had more American lives taken away and more money spent the FAILED policy that this war replaced was longer enduring yet offered no movement forward toward a resolution and was FAR MORE DEADLY and all encompassing upon the innocent people of Iraq.

The only thing that you can say is that "Fewer American guns were fired and few American lives were lost as they were in Airplanes dropping bombs for 10 years on Iraqi targets that 'threatened them'.
When all is said and done Dr. Rice is an American of unknown African ancestry.

She is 'black' in our society.

She is Dr. Condolezza Rice in most of the remainder of the world.

Dr. Rice is derided at home.

It's what we do. We think African Americans should 'do something' to admit their commonality with us.

Simply being 'black' is not enough.

I think Dr. Rice has a problem in verbally reconciling her ethnicity with her upbringing and her public life.

I DO NOT think Dr. Rice is a bigot. I don't think anyone is saying she is.

She just doesn't do 'it' right.

When she says 'We' it doesn't feel like it means 'us'n's'.

It sounds like it means we as Americans.

She never seems to claim her heritage.

And...I'm still proud of her as one of us.

PEACE

Jim Chester
quote:

I think Dr. Rice has a problem in verbally reconciling her ethnicity with her upbringing and her public life.

Dr. Rice is derided at home.


JWC:

Can we agree that this is YOUR VIEW and interpretation of Dr Rice and that you don't know that this represent HER OWN THOUGHTS?

In MY VIEW she is a Black Female in good standing and certainly worthy of a role model for my Black daughter.

I only wish that YOU and others would be more verbal about the Black people WHO ARE ACCEPTED INTO THE FOLD who "VERBALLY RECONSILE THEIR ETHNICITY WITH THEIR ENTERTAINMENT CAREERS as they profit from SAMBO musich that depicts their UPBRINGING in the Ghetto in a very disrespectful and exploitative manner".

Dr. Rice HAS DONE NOTHING TO HARM BLACK AMERICA. You all simply don't like the Bush policies and you are targeting anyone who stands with these policies.

Somewhere around the world is an extremist who does not distinguish YOU from the American policies that have impacted his people for more than 50 years as they focus their anger against Israel. In an attack he is not going to take the time to point out your personal views as distinguished from american policy. He is going to look at your passport as you travel and claim your dead body as a trophy for his movement.

Again I have to wonder why you don't hold the members of Congress who have voted in support of American policy (ie: support for war funding) to the same standard?
Why would any Black person of conscience feel proud of a woman like Condoleeza when she is thoroughly enmeshed (in mind and spirit) with this group of rethuglicans who deceitfully condone torture?

The revelation that the U.S. was in cahoots with nations comprising "new Europe" (formerly communist and fascist governments with notorious histories of brutality) to house terrorist suspects for interrogation, preceeded a flurry of press conferences on the subject of the leak, torture and the legality of it all. Condoleeza tha' Skeeza enthusiastically linked arms with her ideological brethren to defend this mis-administration's criminality.

link
  • ...Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice sidestepped questions on secret prisons Tuesday, saying the United States was in a "different kind of war" and had an obligation to defend itself.

  • While not confirming the existence of secret prisons, Rice told reporters, "We, our allies, others who have experienced attacks, have to find a way to protect our people."


A woman without principles, to be sure.
none of them do...look at CF, claiming to be a black man, working in IT and failing to acknowledge that his black azz couldn't be hired to empty trash 40 years ago.....all of them reap the benfits of past group struggles...but now act like they did it all on their own...they lack principles, integrity, compassion and black pride....they really do.........
quote:
Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:


How many people die as a result of a tasteless rap video? How many people die as a result of an illegitimate war? CF - you do the math.


Again - the FLAW in your argument is the lie that has been propagated that the mass DEATH in Iraq started from the invastion.



MBM: You are a hypocrite in the worst way. You condemn death but only reserve your focus on the death of 2001 Americans. For years the people of Iraq suffered abundant death yet you remained silent. The same forces who are fighting this war also backed the POLICY that allowed for GUNS to remain silent yet they waged an ECONOMIC WAR on Iraq and also stood by while the program that they set up "Oil For Food" was used as a financial racketeering mechanism to enrich those who are in power.

Which POLICY would tend to kill more people MBM - a street gun battle in which those who are participants are the more likely to be killed with stray bullets killing innocents while the masses take cover?

Or a POLICY in which all of the hospitals and grocery stores of this same community are virtually shut down and the masses have "no where to hide" as they are impacted from not having basic elements of life?

It is quite amazing how the different choices and values are expressed with respect to the leadership at the top of the USA at the time. Though it is true that the War effort has had more American lives taken away and more money spent the FAILED policy that this war replaced was longer enduring yet offered no movement forward toward a resolution and was FAR MORE DEADLY and all encompassing upon the innocent people of Iraq.

The only thing that you can say is that "Fewer American guns were fired and few American lives were lost as they were in Airplanes dropping bombs for 10 years on Iraqi targets that 'threatened them'.


CF, do you realize that we armed Saddam in the first place? Are you aware that we supported him in the 1980's and our own Donald Dumbsfeld armed him? We even supported him while he was gassing his own people. We only went out against him when he went after Kuwait's oil fields. Before that, we supported him and the oppressive Shah of Iran.

Don't even get me started about our role in the Soviet-Afghan War of 1980.
I find it sad that in the land of the free that a black person always has to prove how black they really are or be torn apart by members of the "black community". I think that to an extent we should be doing what we can to support them as a member of our community and perhaps this will lead to an opportunity to sway them to an afrocentric way of thinking. Negative criticism and attacks on a person's blackness just drives them further away- is that what we should be doing?
While I do not agree with the policies of the US government (yes very surprising for a foreigner) I think that Dr.Rice still could be a great example to many young black women both in and out of the United States.

It tickles my heart everytime I see her dealing with leaders in some of the most mysoginistic societies in the world and they have to play nice as she has their balls in her hands.
quote:
Originally posted by Blacksanction:
I find it sad that in the land of the free that a black person always has to prove how black they really are or be torn apart by members of the "black community". I think that to an extent we should be doing what we can to support them as a member of our community and perhaps this will lead to an opportunity to sway them to an afrocentric way of thinking. Negative criticism and attacks on a person's blackness just drives them further away- is that what we should be doing?
While I do not agree with the policies of the US government (yes very surprising for a foreigner) I think that Dr.Rice still could be a great example to many young black women both in and out of the United States.

It tickles my heart everytime I see her dealing with leaders in some of the most mysoginistic societies in the world and they have to play nice as she has their balls in her hands.


man if i was to do things harmful to your child as a neighbor, would you embrace me as your neighbor still? hell no.......that is simplified thinkig to accept anyone my color just because they are..man please........those negroes know when they sell their souls for personal gain...and since they were not giving a f-k about black people at the time of their actions, why should black people give a f-k about them after the fact..there are anough role models in the black race that do not work to harm it....let the kids see them........
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin41:
...those negroes know when they sell their souls for personal gain... there are anough role models in the black race that do not work to harm it....let the kids see them........


tfro

Her black skin doesn't negate the damage she's done by lying about "mushroom clouds", nor the veiled threats she makes to other countries in her diplomatic-speak. Role model? Not her!
Bigotry from the Left


by Kimberley Jane Wilson



Bigotry can be found in the places one would least expect it to thrive.

Author Shirley Jackson, remembered most for horror tales such as The Lottery, understood this when she wrote the slyly brilliant story "After You My Dear Alphonse." The story's unnamed narrator is a middle-class, white housewife who considers herself an upstanding liberal in both actions and thoughts. She is delighted when her young son comes home with his new best friend - a black child named Boyd.

She immediately assumes Boyd must be poor and his family is in the neighborhood due to some government program or charity. She offers him a bundle of her son's old clothes to take home.

The child politely declines. It turns out he's not poor and his comfortably middle-class parents are perfectly capable of buying him everything he needs. Embarrassed, the narrator snaps at Boyd and angrily leaves the kitchen. The story ends with her son, who sees right through his mother, apologizing for her behavior as the two boys head back outside to play.

Some of the most left-leaning people are - in their hearts - no better than Shirley Jackson's character. They mean well by black people, but they see us as creatures to be pitied and protected rather than respected as equals. When a black person challenges that assumption, they snap and turn nasty.

Dr. Condoleezza Rice makes a lot of people snap.

Earlier this year, Universal Press Syndicate cartoonist Ted Rall penned a piece in which Dr. Rice was sent to a re-education camp so she cold be retrained to be a real black person. More recently, cartoonist Jeff Danzinger of the New York Times Syndicate tried to top Rall. Parodying the half-witted slave character played by Butterfly McQueen in the movie "Gone With theWind," the cartoon shows a barefoot and scowling Rice tending to aluminum tubes (representing her past assertions of WMD development in Iraq) made to look like infants. Like the character in the movie, Rice says "I don't know nuthin' about birthin' no babies."

Things got worse after Dr. Rice was nominated to become Secretary of State. A radio talk show host even went as far as to call her "Aunt Jemima." The cartoonists began yet another assault on her.

It's shameful.

The civil rights industry is fond of frantically warning that, at any moment, the clock is in danger of being turned back to the era of segregation. Well, guess what? This activity is as close to a peek into a time machine as most would care to get.

The ironic thing is that if Condoleezza Rice was a liberal she'd be among the high holy untouchables. Were Jocelyn Elders (even at the height of her embarrassing stint as surgeon general), Alexis Herman or Hazel O'Leary ever portrayed by a political cartoonist in such a crude fashion? Of course not! Anyone who drew a cartoon such as this of a black liberal would be fired and promptly forgotten.

Dr. Rice's intellectual achievements and political acumen are unquestionable. She's reached a career pinnacle that no other woman - and certainly no other black woman - has even gotten close to in any other presidential administration. But none of that matters because she's conservative. Because she's conservative, she's fair game for some of the most distasteful racial insults outside of the Jim Crow era.

There was a small uproar over Danzinger's cartoon and it is no longer located among his other works on his web site, but no apology was issued and it is doubtful one is coming.

But it is also doubtful Dr. Rice actually cares about this cartoon. Like the little boy in Shirley Jackson's story, she's not a walking tale of woe and doesn't need any help. Jackson published "After You My Dear Alphonse" in 1943. Sixty years later, some of the so-called best, brightest and most politically correct people are still snapping when they come across a black person who doesn't fit into their worldview.

Perhaps it's time for our "friends" to do what the woman in Jackson's story wouldn't do - examine the racial stereotypes that they're still carrying around before criticizing anyone else.
I agree, there is racism on both sides. No one can deny that.

But ultimately, I think that the right-wing agenda has less positive benefits for African-Americans (that's just me). The reason that the majority of Blacks used to be Republicans was because they sided with Radical Republicans, who were liberals.

When the Republican party went right, Blacks wen to the Democratic party because the Democrats went left.
quote:
Originally posted by Empty Purnata:
I agree, there is racism on both sides. No one can deny that.

But ultimately, I think that the right-wing agenda has less positive benefits for African-Americans (that's just me). The reason that the majority of Blacks used to be Republicans was because they sided with Radical Republicans, who were liberals. ek

When the Republican party went right, Blacks wen to the Democratic party because the Democrats went left.
Confused

E.P.

If you can't trust the Right Wing agenda

and there are problems with the Left Wing agenda

I sure hope we can make an Agenda that really works that WE can define.

got to go for now jeff
quote:
Originally posted by jefftec:
Confused

E.P.

If you can't trust the Right Wing agenda

and there are problems with the Left Wing agenda

I sure hope we can make an Agenda that really works that WE can define.

got to go for now jeff


I'm a Black Leftist, so I'm naturally different than my White peers.

Really, there is no such thing as not belonging to some kind of ideology. If you listed what your views were, I could easily say what group that those views are in common with. Unless African-Americans form their OWN new ideology...


Hmm....
quote:
Originally posted by Blacksanction:

All politicians lie Smile its just that some are better than others.


She's not even an elected politician, she's an appointed member of a cabinet. She never ran for any office. She doesn't tell little lies or half-truths to appease a constituency, she tells big lies because that's the job she wants.
quote:
Originally posted by Isome:
Her black skin doesn't negate the damage she's done by lying about "mushroom clouds", nor the veiled threats she makes to other countries in her diplomatic-speak. Role model? Not her!


Your right - it doesn't. But, this is the price we as a people pay for participating in a body politic that is inherently corrupt - since the beginning of time. But, as our growing Black political class shows, we are participating. Question is, of course: at what cost? Regardless of your color, your nationality, your class, your party affiliation or where you are from, compromises will be made, principles shattered when you choose to take a similar route. Rice, obviously, has made difficult choices - whether they are bad or good choices depends on days of endless debate and generations of perspective. But, since the beginning of our political participation in this country, every African American (Democrat, Republican, Independent or "None of the Above") has been put in the position of making extremely difficult choices.

And, do you not think a Black Mayor, Black Member of Congress or a Black Senator (or, perhaps, a Black President) won't make or have not made less difficult or troubling choices/votes in policy? Not excusing Secretary Rice, but this is what we signed on for. This is the next level our ancestors bled, sweat and died for. In her case, she is an appointment, so she has now chosen to serve at the pleasure of who appointed her. Up until very recent in our collective history, we barely had the right to vote, much less even imagine 9,000 African American elected officials on the state, local and federal level.

This may not be so much an absolute issue of one's color or background since, ultimately, that's all relative once differing perspectives and experiences enter the picture. But, it is a question of how we are going to cope with our assumptions about group authenticity suddenly juxtaposed against who we are as individual human beings.
quote:
Originally posted by Blackpolicy.org:
But, it is a question of how we are going to cope with our assumptions about group authenticity suddenly juxtaposed against who we are as individual human beings.


Not to me, or to many others; she's a Black woman. There's no litmus test for that and to claim otherwise is pointless. But, first and foremost, she is a liar.

The policies she promotes are detrimental to this entire nation and other nations, not just for we who share her skin color.

Today is tomorrow's history; we already know that damage has been done, though the depth and breadth of that damage has yet to be determined.
....The material below is posted by Cobb,

"Dr. Condoleezza Rice became the Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs, commonly referred to as the National Security Advisor, on January 22, 2001.

In June 1999, she completed a six year tenure as Stanford University 's Provost, during which she was the institution's chief budget and academic officer. As Provost she was responsible for a $1.5 billion annual budget and the academic program involving 1,400 faculty members and 14,000 students.

As professor of political science, Dr. Rice has been on the Stanford faculty since 1981 and has won two of the highest teaching honors -- the 1984 Walter J. Gores Award for Excellence in Teaching and the 1993 School of Humanities and Sciences Dean's Award for Distinguished Teaching.

At Stanford, she has been a member of the Center for International Security and Arms Control, a Senior Fellow of the Institute for International Studies, and a Fellow (by courtesy) of the Hoover Institution. Her books include Germany Unified and Europe Transformed (1995) with Philip Zelikow, The Gorbachev Era (1986) with Alexander Dallin, and Uncertain Allegiance: The Soviet Union and the Czechoslovak Army (1984). She also has written numerous articles on Soviet and East European foreign and defense policy, and has addressed audiences in settings ranging from the U.S. Ambassador's Residence in Moscow to the Commonwealth Club to the 1992 and 2000 Republican National Conventions.

From 1989 through March 1991, the period of German reunification and the final days of the Soviet Union, she served in the Bush Administration as Director, and then Senior Director, of Soviet and East European Affairs in the National Security Council, and a Special Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs. In 1986, while an international affairs fellow of the Council on Foreign Relations, she served as Special Assistant to the Director of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. In 1997, she served on the Federal Advisory Committee on Gender -- Integrated Training in the Military.

She was a member of the boards of directors for the Chevron Corporation, the Charles Schwab Corporation, the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation, the University of Notre Dame, the International Advisory Council of J.P. Morgan and the San Francisco Symphony Board of Governors. She was a Founding Board member of the Center for a New Generation, an educational support fund for schools in East Palo Alto and East Menlo Park, California and was Vice President of the Boys and Girls Club of the Peninsula . In addition, her past board service has encompassed such organizations as Transamerica Corporation, Hewlett Packard, the Carnegie Corporation, Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, The Rand Corporation, the National Council for Soviet and East European Studies, the Mid-Peninsula Urban Coalition and KQED, public broadcasting for San Francisco.

Born November 14, 1954 in Birmingham, Alabama, she earned her bachelor's degree in political science, cum laude and Phi Beta Kappa, from the University of Denver in 1974; her master's from the University of Notre Dame in 1975; and her Ph.D. from the Graduate School of International Studies at the University of Denver in 1981. She is a Fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences and has been awarded honorary doctorates from Morehouse College in 1991, the University of Alabama in 1994, the University of Notre Dame in 1995, the National Defense University in 2002, the Mississippi College School of Law in 2003, the University of Louisville and Michigan State University in 2004. She resides in Washington, D.C."

Like Cobb, and/or other rational individuals I can think of nothing but praise for U.S. Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice!
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quote:
Originally posted by Norland:
OK, so Condi's educated. She'll be OK as long as there's oil flowing somewhere on this planet.


*ha ha*

quote:
My choice of millionaire/billionaire is Oprah over Condi for my admiration. I've seen Oprah do wonderful things for people; ...


She has her issues, but she has proven her good intentions. I am a firm believer in karma, and I think she has plenty of the good kind coming her way.

quote:
...all I know about Condi is that she has expensive shoe tastes.


And, that she loves her husband... uhhh' pRresident.
No wonder tha' Skeeza is afflicted:
Author - Eugene Robinson
    "Ms. Rice's father, a prominent pastor in Birmingham, looked down on Shuttlesworth [Fred] and his small working class congregation, and publicly called them "uneducated, misguided Negroes." But, in 2005, a life-size statute of Shuttlesworth stands majestically for all the ages in front of the Birmingham Civil Rights Museum. Rev. Rice's monument is his daughter's high position in a Republican administration that has 2% support in black America. That is poetic justice personified."
    ...

    My dear wife speaks with disdain about white people, particularly Southern whites, who exalt blacks like Rice for downplaying the terrible toll of racism, past and present. Every ranking black official in the Bush Administration fits that mold and is a replica of Rice. 40 years ago, Bull Connor and George Wallace called King and Shuttlesworth irresponsible and applauded Rice's father and others of his ilk as "responsible moderate Negro leaders."
I have been reluctant to characterize Rev. Rice's attitude as characteristic of the intra-racism that has plagued us for generations. Everything I hear about her upbringing, however, had that ring to it.

How she was brought up is not her fault.

How she lives her life now is totally her choice.

She is who she is.

Let's hope, and help, her grow in the reasonable responsibility to her people.

PEACE

Jim Chester
quote:
Let's hope, and help, her grow in the reasonable responsibility to her people.


Mr. Chester:

Do you ever step back and survey the landscape of Black elected officials that are representing Black people and apply this same rationale to them?

When you say "responsibility to her people" do you ever imagine the concept of measuring this by the RESULTS rather than the POPULAR MANDATE that these people in their current state of mind may have?

What if 3 people are 200 pounds over weight and you are their personal trainer? Their "popular mandate" may be to live a sedentary lifestyle - watching television and going to restaurants. THEIR CURRENT STATE OF BEING would tend to produce evidence to them as to the EFFECTIVENESS of their "popular mandate" and how it contributes to their current state of obesity, right?

Now you as a personal trainer, seeing the cause and effect are forced to come in and show them a diffent way that would tend to upset their "popular mandate". They will be forced to change their ways and it will be hard work. You will no doubt be attacked when they wake up the next morning and they are sore. They will note that in their previous way of doing things THEY WERE NEVER SORE. They used to enjoy appetizing food and now you have them eating TASTELESS MUSH.

Do you think that YOU will be a popular man with them Mr Chester?

With this little tale can we both agree that we need to have some LONG TERM REFERENCE - getting the people back to a state of reasonable body weight AND THEN JUDGE THEIR "Personal Trainer's" program based on their respective ability to achieve this goal?

With this in mind please tell me " responsibility to her people" that Maxine Waters, Cynthia McKinney, Kwami Killpatrick and several others that seem to escape your rath have shown?
Mr. Chester:

Do you ever step back and survey the landscape of Black elected officials that are representing Black people and apply this same rationale to them?---CF

Yes, always. What other reasonable thing can you do? They are in the office. I certainly cannot change that.

When you say "responsibility to her people" do you ever imagine the concept of measuring this by the RESULTS rather than the POPULAR MANDATE that these people in their current state of mind may have?---CF

Yes. If they have failed, as is frequently the case, it is always a disappointment. But the circumstance has not changed for that person. They are still in the office. And...I cannot change that.

Come election time, and maybe someone else will get a chance, and hopefully do better.

I don't know what 'popular mandate...mentality' means.


What if 3 people are 200 pounds over weight and you are their personal trainer? Their "popular mandate" may be to live a sedentary lifestyle - watching television and going to restaurants. THEIR CURRENT STATE OF BEING would tend to produce evidence to them as to the EFFECTIVENESS of their "popular mandate" and how it contributes to their current state of obesity, right?

Now you as a personal trainer, seeing the cause and effect are forced to come in and show them a diffent way that would tend to upset their "popular mandate". They will be forced to change their ways and it will be hard work. You will no doubt be attacked when they wake up the next morning and they are sore. They will note that in their previous way of doing things THEY WERE NEVER SORE. They used to enjoy appetizing food and now you have them eating TASTELESS MUSH.

Do you think that YOU will be a popular man with them Mr Chester?---CF

As posed, the answer to your question would have to be, 'No.', but your analogy is not applicable.

I have no immediate authority over a sitting official. My next opportunity to effect that person will only be to keep or remove that person, and that would be assuming I live in the jurisdiction. Otherwise, I am simply a bystander.


With this little tale can we both agree that we need to have some LONG TERM REFERENCE - getting the people back to a state of reasonable body weight AND THEN JUDGE THEIR "Personal Trainer's" program based on their respective ability to achieve this goal?

No, we can't agree, because it is wishful thinking.

Neither African American-American, nor any other public official of African ancestry serves at the discretion and pleasure of all people of African ancestry, known or unknown.

Neither does Dr. Rice.


With this in mind please tell me " responsibility to her people" that Maxine Waters, Cynthia McKinney, Kwami Killpatrick and several others that seem to escape your rath have shown?---Construction Feedback

Clearly, and without reference to your inapplicable analogy, you have not read my posts regarding members of the Congressional Black Caucus.

I have repeatedly 'called them to task' for failing to challenge the 'inequity under the law' provisions of the Voting Rights Act.

I have also challenged them, the members of the CBC, for supporting the ill-conceived House Resolution of Rep. Jesse Jackson, Jr. AND their similar support of the incompetent proposed petition of the Rainbow/PUSH Coalition regarding extension of the 'special provisions' of that law as they effect African American-Amreicans.


PEACE

Jim Chester
POPULAR MANDATE:

Popular Mandate is a tactic used frequently, for example, on BlackCommentator.com in which they attempt to JUSTIFY their views and ideology for the benefit of Black people on the basis that "most Blacks think this way" (and thus it must be so) rather than on producing emperical evidence that certain policy are EFFECTIVE at having the collective to achieve their stated goals.

Thus when some other Black comes to the table having views that are not in line with the popularly held beliefs that this cabal ENFORCES this Black person is said to have views that are COUNTER TO THE BEST INTERESTS OF BLACK PEOPLE as measured NOT BY any emperical evidence but BY THE POPULARITY of the views that this person is running counter to.

My point is that Popular Mandate in and of itself is not a construct that can be used as a fundamental principle. Popular Mandate must be build upon truth and policies that are proven to work lest you end up enforcing people to be unified behind policies that they can see are not working BUT they not wanting to go against what is said to be in the "Best Interests of their Race" will remain silent and "Get In Where They Fit In".

It seems to me that anyone who makes the claim "in the best interests...." would be able to PROVE this without using the attack based methods that they typically resort to.

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