15 of 50 victims of Buffalo crash recovered.

CLARENCE, N.Y. - The plane that crashed into a house near Buffalo, killing 50 people, was on autopilot when it went down, a violation of airline policy, a federal aviation official said Sunday.

Steve Chealander of the National Transportation Safety Board said Colgan Air recommends pilots fly manually in icy conditions. Pilots are required to do so in severe ice.

The pilot of the doomed plane reported "significant" ice on his wings and windshield just before crashing Thursday night.

Colgan Air operates a fleet of 51 regional turboprops including Continental Connection, United Express and US Airways Express.

Chealander says the preliminary investigation indicates the autopilot was still on when the plane crashed. The remains of 15 people have been recovered from the wreckage of Flight 3407, authorities said Sunday as crews raced to finish their work before a snowstorm arrives later in the week.

Workers were back at the site at dawn Sunday, trying to retrieve remains of the 49 people aboard when the Continental commuter flight crashed into a home in suburban Buffalo, in western New York state. The homeowner was also killed.

Erie County Executive Chris Collins said recovery efforts intensified after the arrival of additional federal workers. A forecast of snow for Wednesday added to the urgency.

A storm could hamper recovery efforts, but "the investigation will continue snow, rain or shine," said David Bissonette, the town's emergency coordinator.

Once all the remains are recovered, the focus will turn to removing wreckage of the 74-seat aircraft from the residential neighborhood where it went down Thursday night near the end of a flight from Newark, New Jersey.

About 150 people are working at the site six miles (10 kilometers) from the Buffalo airport. The blue tail of the 90-foot (27-meter) plane still sticks out from a mound of black ash and rubble.

The plane, flying through light snow and mist, crashed belly-first into the house, with the aircraft's nose pointed away from the airport.

Investigators did not offer an explanation, but the orientation raised the possibility that the pilot was fighting an icy airplane. Air safety guidelines says a pilot can try a 180-degree turn to rid a plane of ice.

Other possible explanations are that the aircraft was spinning or flipped upon impact.

According to flight data, the plane's safety systems warned the pilot that the aircraft was perilously close to losing lift and plummeting from the sky.

Recovery crews could need as much as four days to remove the remains from the site. Chealander, a National Transportation Safety Board member, described the efforts as an "excavation."

"Keep in mind, there's an airplane that fell on top of a house, and they're now intermingled," he said.

Moments before the crash, a "stick shaker" and "stick pusher" mechanism had activated to warn the pilot that the plane was about to lose aerodynamic lift, a condition called a stall. When the "stick pusher" engaged, it would have pointed the nose of the plane toward the ground to try to increase lift.

Chealander said indicator lights showed that deicing equipment on the tail, wings and propeller appeared to be working and that investigators who examined both engines said it appears they were working normally at the time of the crash.

Experts were analyzing data from the black boxes, including statements by crew members about a buildup of ice on the wings and windshield, Chealander said.

The NTSB planned to use data on the black boxes to determine whether the plane was in a flat spin before it crashed. Flight data indicated "severe" pitching and rolling before impact.

Other aircraft in the area Thursday night told air traffic controllers they also experienced icing around the time that the plane went down.

Icing is one of several elements being examined by investigators, Chealander said, adding that a full report will probably take a year.

DNA and dental records will be used to identify the remains, he said.

One aspect of the investigation will focus on the crew, their training and whether they had enough time to rest between flights. Other investigators will focus on the weather and the mechanics of the plane.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29194109
Original Post
quote:
Originally posted by Cholly:
Steve Chealander of the National Transportation Safety Board said Colgan Air recommends pilots fly manually in icy conditions. Pilots are required to do so in severe ice. The pilot of the doomed plane reported "significant" ice on his wings and windshield just before crashing Thursday night.


Yes, "significant" not "severe". Therefore, the pilot had the right to exercise discretion, imo. The headline is misleading and places blame where blame may not be deserved.

If anyone is to be blamed, it is the FAA for not making airlines uses better de-icing technologies for their turboprops, or the airlines for not grounding turboprops in ice-forming conditions. Not the pilot. JMO...
quote:
Originally posted by James Wesley Chester:
shulamite: Your avatar reminds how the general populace of African America is growing politically by leaps and bounds.


Thanks. I chose it, b/c I like images of cohesive and functional young black families. I'd like to see myself in Michelle's spot (in this photo) someday...
Although I understand that the NTSB will need to investigate this crash thoroughly, I don't like the way the media won't let go of speculating on every way the pilots could have possibly screwed up. It's as if they blame them for not being the USAir crew from LGA.

I mean, the pilots are dead. What else do you want to do? Dock their pay????

(shulamite, who wishes people would have a bit more sympathy...)
quote:
Originally posted by shulamite:
Although I understand that the NTSB will need to investigate this crash thoroughly, I don't like the way the media won't let go of speculating on every way the pilots could have possibly screwed up. It's as if they blame them for not being the USAir crew from LGA.

I mean, the pilots are dead. What else do you want to do? Dock their pay????

(shulamite, who wishes people would have a bit more sympathy...)

================================================

Quote: "I mean, the pilots are dead. What else do you want to do? Dock their pay????"

No, you want to save lives in the future.

You want and need them to investigate all angles of this crash to determine if the pilots did screwed up (and not take the common sense initiative & think beyond what their rules say to do) so that they can use it as a future training tool and upgrade/adjust commerical pilot flying regulations to ensure that all pilots and co-pilots better understand the dangers of flying in cold weather/ice conditions to ensure that this situation is minmized/prevented and hopefully does not happen again.

It's called After Action.

Pilots fly and know that they can die at any moment doing what they love.

Death. That's the highest cost of the occupation.
quote:
Originally posted by Cholly:
You want and need them to investigate all angles of this crash to determine if the pilots did screwed up (and not take the common sense initiative & think beyond what their rules say to do) so that they can use it as a future training tool and upgrade/adjust commerical pilot flying regulations to ensure that all pilots and co-pilots better understand the dangers of flying in cold weather/ice conditions to ensure that this situation is minmized/prevented and hopefully does not happen again.


I understand and agree on why the NTSB needs to do it's job. But, imho, what will "ensure that this situation is minmized/prevented and hopefully does not happen again" is better de-icing technology for turboprops, not brighter pilots. No pilot (not even Sullenberger) could have saved that plane in those conditions. The industry needs a sound spank from the media, not the pilots.

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