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Obama Speaks Out Against Slavery Reparations

Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama opposes offering reparations to the descendants of slaves, putting him at odds with some black groups and leaders.

The man with a serious chance to become the nation's first black president argues that government should instead combat the legacy of slavery by improving schools, health care and the economy for all.

"I have said in the past - and I'll repeat again - that the best reparations we can provide are good schools in the inner city and jobs for people who are unemployed," the Illinois Democrat said recently.

Some two dozen members of Congress are co-sponsors of legislation to create a commission that would study reparations - that is, payments and programs to make up for the damage done by slavery.

The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People supports the legislation, too. Cities around the country, including Obama's home of Chicago, have endorsed the idea, and so has a major union, the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees.

Obama has worked to be seen as someone who will bring people together, not divide them into various interest groups with checklists of demands. Supporting reparations could undermine that image and make him appear to be pandering to black voters.

"Let's not be naive. Sen. Obama is running for president of the United States, and so he is in a constant battle to save his political life," said Kibibi Tyehimba, co-chair of the National Coalition of Blacks for Reparations in America. "In light of the demographics of this country, I don't think it's realistic to expect him to do anything other than what he's done."

But this is not a position Obama adopted just for the presidential campaign. He voiced the same concerns about reparations during his successful run for the Senate in 2004.

There's enough flexibility in the term "reparations" that Obama can oppose them and still have plenty of common ground with supporters.

The NAACP says reparations could take the form of government programs to help struggling people of all races. Efforts to improve schools in the inner city could also aid students in the mountains of West Virginia, said Hilary Shelton, director of the NAACP's Washington bureau.

"The solution could be broad and sweeping," Shelton said.

The National Urban League - a group Obama is to address Saturday - avoids the word "reparations" as too vague and highly charged. But the group advocates government action to close the gaps between white America and black America.

Urban League President Marc Morial said he expects his members to press Obama on how he intends to close those gaps and what action he would take in the first 100 days of his presidency.

"What steps should we take as a nation to alleviate the effects of racial exclusion and racial discrimination?" Morial asked.

The House voted this week to apologize for slavery. The resolution, which was approved on a voice vote, does not mention reparations, but past opponents have argued that an apology would increase pressure for concrete action.

Obama says an apology would be appropriate but not particularly helpful in improving the lives of black Americans. Reparations could also be a distraction, he said.

In a 2004 questionnaire, he told the NAACP, "I fear that reparations would be an excuse for some to say, ˜We've paid our debt,' and to avoid the much harder work."

Taking questions Sunday at a conference of minority journalists, Obama said he would be willing to talk to American Indian leaders about an apology for the nation's treatment of their people.

Pressed for his position on apologizing to blacks or offering reparations, Obama said he was more interested in taking action to help people struggling to get by. Because many of them are minorities, he said, that would help the same people who would stand to benefit from reparations.

"If we have a program, for example, of universal health care, that will disproportionately affect people of color, because they're disproportionately uninsured," Obama said. "If we've got an agenda that says every child in America should get - should be able to go to college, regardless of income, that will disproportionately affect people of color, because it's oftentimes our children who can't afford to go to college."

One reparations advocate, Vernellia Randall, a law professor at the University of Dayton, bluntly responded: "I think he's dead wrong."

She said aid to the poor in general won't close the gaps - poor blacks would still trail poor whites, and middle-class blacks would still lag behind middle-class whites. Instead, assistance must be aimed directly at the people facing the after-effects of slavery and Jim Crow laws, she said.

"People say he can't run and get elected if he says those kinds of things," Randall said. "I'm like, well does that mean we're really not ready for a black president?"

Article by Christopher Wills

iNPLACENEWS

© 2008 The Associated Press

© MBM

Original Post

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quote:
Originally posted by negrospiritual:
quote:
The NAACP says reparations could take the form of government programs to help struggling people of all races. Efforts to improve schools in the inner city could also aid students in the mountains of West Virginia, said Hilary Shelton, director of the NAACP's Washington bureau



Hell to da naw sleep


I had a major problem with that "PEOPLE OF ALL RACES" bs too, NS.

All of a sudden we're all "in it" together?? Confused 17

I didn't see nobody else's ass "in it" when WE were the ones in chains!! Eek

Did you?? 19
quote:
"I have said in the past - and I'll repeat again - that the best reparations we can provide are good schools in the inner city and jobs for people who are unemployed," the Illinois Democrat said recently.
---article

I vehemently disagree.

I will oppose him just as I will anyone else who argues the same.

And...I am still going to vote for him.

And...I am going to fight him on the issue.

It should be noted that 'Reparations' is an issue for the courts...the federal courts...seeking a decision of the validity of the demand for word done.

It is not about opinion...including that of the President of the United States.

It would be nice if he were in favor, and...he can certainly influence public opinion.

But public opinion does not have to agree either.


PEACE

Jim Chester
quote:
Well - I never liked reparations anyway!


I guess I'll have to listen to the speech or preferably find the transcript. I don't have a problem with Obama being against Reparations. He just pisses me off with that bs one-size fits all rhetoric and the "best reparations" bs.

I'm tired of the f-ckin' stereotypes and ignorance coming out of his mouth when it comes to Black people/issues. His "best reparations" rhetoric begs the question: what does he think reparations is all about?

It's as if (and I think he said something like this) he calls himself disagreeing with a certain kind of reparations that's being advocated. But I'm like damn. Did the brother not go to Harvard? Does the brother not know Charles Ogletree? Can the brother not read and educate himself on the issue?

All he has to say is what he said during the UNITY convention:

The fact is that dealing with some of the legacy of discrimination is going to cost billions of dollars, and we're not going to be able to have that kind of resource allocation unless all Americans feel that they are invested in making this stuff happen.

I don't agree with that position and he, of all people, should be able to get his Beloved White Folk on board (though he apparently won't even try). I do, however, accept the idea as a reasonable position for a politician, especially, to have.
I don't do amerikkkan politics, but I DO advocate for MY People, reparations being expressly sensitive towards US. (Not 'Native amerikkkkans,' poor whites in appalachia ect...)

I'LL say again, obuma is only capable of extending further damage on the Black Community as how does he advocate for Blacks, when he is not?

He is mulatto.

Therefore, I'M not surprised by his positions....any of them. Some are holding out that he is but this great trojan horse in advocacy of OUR People. Even the white media has expressed it's terror regarding such possibilities.

To those who believe this, allow ME to say maybe you should be prepared for the twisted fiction that that would be, in that in reality, obuma could only serve to plunge the thorn even deeper into the sides of an already hemorhaging People........OURS.



ROARIN......
quote:
Some are holding out that he is but this great trojan horse in advocacy of OUR People.


He's a politician. He's supposed to pursue policy. To whatever extent that makes for advocacy then fine but his job is to pursue policy. If he pursues those in his platform then the "only capable of extending further damage" notion is sorely missed placed. And, given how no-mulatto Negroes hold the same positions he does... Well, that's the end of that "twisted fixation."

Obama deserves plenty of criticism but this exaggerated bs and non-issue based nonsense needs to stop.
quote:
Originally posted by Nmaginate:
quote:
Some are holding out that he is but this great trojan horse in advocacy of OUR People.


He's a politician. He's supposed to pursue policy. To whatever extent that makes for advocacy then fine but his job is to pursue policy. If he pursues those in his platform then the "only capable of extending further damage" notion is sorely missed placed. And, given how no-mulatto Negroes hold the same positions he does... Well, that's the end of that "twisted fixation."

Obama deserves plenty of criticism but this exaggerated bs and non-issue based nonsense needs to stop.



I said 'some.' What can you not read? Or do you just wanna rumble?

Allow ME to warn you up front....'I only rumble with those that are MY equals,' which leaves you out.
quote:
I said 'some.' What can you not read?


I read very well. I also read my statement as not taking issue with how many people are or aren't "holding out" for Obama to be the great trojan horse.

I read my statement to question your unsupported notion that he is "only capable of extending further damage." That and your "twisted fixation" on his mulatto-ness.

And, really, what would you WARN someone who is not your equal about if you "only rumble with those who are you equal" Confused

The sh*ts doesn't make sense any more than tying Obama's thoughts on issues to his mulatto-ness and when there are a host of non-mulatto Black people saying the same things he does and/or agreeing with him.

What's their problem? They're mulatto lovers??

Surely you, the one of whom I am no equal, could elevate your game to a level higher than that.
Now let ME be clear.

(The following excerpt is taken from the efforts of a very dear friend of MINES.....no longer with US in the 'physical,' yet however, still shaking the very foundations of the 'clay' as an ANCESTOR.)
-----------------------

Richard King on BLACKNESS


"King argues that blackness or carbon is life and is therefore divine. He says that ancient Africans understood this, and called themselves by various names meaning 'black,' such as 'Kemites' (people of the black earth), from which the Greeks developed the word 'chemistry' (and the Arabs 'alchemy'). Recognizing the special significance of their blackness,which far transcended the color of the skin, according to King, these ancient scientists studied the workings of their own minds, which they understoood as being identified with their entire bodies. (So much for the mind/body split so basic to European thought.)....

According to King, the ancient Africans studied until they came to understand the relationsip of 'blackness' to spirituality and inner vision; the higher levels of understanding on which synthesis occurs. For them 'Blackness' represented the divine. In his series of works entitled, The Black Dot, King supports this contention with an impressive array of references to ancient Kemetic texts and symbolic images and to a host of other theorists and historians.(105) What did these early, advanced scientists discover?"

'The original titans found that all life came from a black seed, all life was rooted in blackness, all things possessed a memory of their collective ancestors. Blackness, the universal solvent of all was seen as the one reality from which spun the threads of the loom of life. All colors, all vibratory energies, were but a shade of black; black was the color of the night sky, primeval ocean of outer space, birthplace and womb of the planets, stars and galaxies of the universe; black holes were found at the center of our own galaxy and countless other galaxies; black as the color of carbon, the key atom found in all living matter of our world; carbon atoms linked together to form black melanin, the first chemical that could capture light and reproduce itself, the chemical key to life; and the brain itself was found to be centered around black neuromelanin.

"Inner vision, intuition, creative genius, and spiritual illumination were all found to be dependent upon pineal gland blood bourne chemical messengers that controlled skin color and opened the hidden door to the darkness of the collective unconscious mind, allowing the ancient priest-scientist to visualize knowledge from the timeless collective unconscious memory banks of the mind. Indeed, the Black Dot was found to be the hidden doorway to universal knowledge of the past, and future.'(106)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------------------------------------------------
105. Richard King, African Origins of PsychoBiology, Ch 1-3; Seymour-Smith, Germantown, Tenn. 1990. Cited in Marimba Ani's YURUGU, p.468.
106. Ibid., pp. 13-14

Rest in UHURU BaBa KWAME!
-----------------------------------------



ROARIN..........
quote:
Originally posted by Nmaginate:
quote:
Some are holding out that he is but this great trojan horse in advocacy of OUR People.


He's a politician. He's supposed to pursue policy. To whatever extent that makes for advocacy then fine but his job is to pursue policy. If he pursues those in his platform then the "only capable of extending further damage" notion is sorely missed placed. And, given how no-mulatto Negroes hold the same positions he does... Well, that's the end of that "twisted fixation."

Obama deserves plenty of criticism but this exaggerated bs and non-issue based nonsense needs to stop.




Imagine THIS.

Now the conversation has moved beyond obuma....as I have unequivocally stated 'I don't do euro-politics..' but when charged by the psychotic as to the brevity/legitimacy of ANYTHING BLACK, you got to clarify your euro-induced psycho-drivel.

Now, maginate, you seem to do well 'debating' your twisted points w/WOMEN or, cyber trolls, but here is your opportunity to communicate your 'ideas' to a Black Man---and prove where I may be 'lacking.'

What? did you think that I'D forgotten about you?

You stick your nose into a conversation I have commented on that had No Where invited YOU (but now you have been invited,) besides being subject to getting it slapped off....you've got the opportunity now....to 'vent' your concerns.

I said that obuma is a mulato and therefore incapable of comprehending the idiosycrasies of GENUINE BLACK MEN.....and I stand by it.

Show the world your reasonings.


ROARIN.....
quote:
Show the world your reasonings.


(*** Trying to stop from LMAO ***)

Roarin', I already showed my reason right here:

quote:
Posted August 02, 2008 10:38 PM

He's a politician. He's supposed to pursue policy. To whatever extent that makes for advocacy then fine but his job is to pursue policy. If he pursues those in his platform then the "only capable of extending further damage" notion is sorely [mis]placed.


Your non-fear laden response, please.

I also showed my reasoning here:

quote:
Posted August 03, 2008 12:06 AM

there are a host of non-mulatto Black people saying the same things he does and/or agreeing with him.

What's their problem? They're mulatto lovers??


Because of that, I have no idea what you think a "GENUINE BLACK MAN" is and what a "GENUINE BLACK MAN" understands. You tying that sh*t to a person's familial heritage and acting like there's some hard and fast rule to something like that is bs.

That's my reasoning in a nutshell.

From what we know, Frederick Douglass had a White biological parent and you would have to have some real "GENUINE" mental problems, no matter what your ideology, to say Douglass wasn't a GENUINE BLACK MAN.

Clarence Thomas is damn near blue black with no White parent(s) and I doubt you would classify him as a GENUINE BLACK MAN despite the racism he witness and faced in his formative years, etc.

Shelby Steele has a White parent. I'd put him in the same category as Thomas but Shelby's brother, Claude Steele, from the same Black/White union is the polar opposite of Shelby philosophically.

So, really? What is the idiotic notion of yours?

Show me that I'm not your equal by revealing or adding some substance as opposed to bs to your critique. Again, your non-fear laden response, please...

quote:
  • If he pursues [the policies] in his platform then the "only capable of extending further damage" notion is sorely [mis]placed.

  • Obama deserves plenty of criticism but this exaggerated bs and non-issue based nonsense needs to stop.


  • My reasoning is CLEAR, PLAIN and, by all appearances, UNASSAILABLE.


    Now talk some substance related, subject related sh*t.
    'SUBSTANCE!'

    Already you sound like one of those 'all but the white hooded' common-traitors hannity, limbaugh or o'really!

    Are THESE your 'hero's?' By providing 'substantive evidences,' tell ME why? And while you're at it...

    ..you say that obuma is a politician. And that he is to pursue policy. Who's policy is it? Who's government is it? Who authored it? Who were it's 'framers?' Which of these policies are designed specifically to include Those or, the Descendants of Those brought over from the middle passage as slaves?

    (And don't give ME the 'civil right or voting rights acts' cause there's nothing 'civil or right' about a twenty-five year lease on 'freedom.')

    Is amerikkka your country? Have you pledged your undying allegiance to it?

    Are you 'free?'

    Do you know who Rev. Albert Cleage is? or, HIS relation to C.L. Franklin?

    Do you know who Milton Henry is? How 'bout HIS Brutha, Richard?

    Which of the above mentioned Bruthas denounced Their slave identities and assumed Their Rightful Afrikan Identities? Which Names did They assume and what do they mean?

    At this juncture, I AM satisfied that I'VE already answered MY OWN question(s.)

    Already I gave you more credit than you EVER deserved.

    What a waste.
    quote:
    Already you sound like one of those 'all but the white hooded' common-traitors hannity, limbaugh or o'really!


    lol

    Anytime you're ready to show me that you:

    (1) Can actually find a subject you can stick to.
    (2) Are over and above me, someone who you claimed was not your "equal."

    Anytime, Roarin'.

    You asked me (bluffin' like a mf) to show my reasoning. I did just that and referred you back to things I said the first time. Things you still don't have an actual intelligent response to.

    quote:
    By providing 'substantive evidences,' tell ME why?

    Okay, here's your chance for a do-over because that sh*t doesn't make sense. Tell you why.... WHAT?

    quote:
    ..you say that obuma is a politician.

    What? Are you wanting to dispute that?


    quote:
    Who's policy is it?

    I referred to his platform. I really could give a fuck whose policies you want to call them. Skip your retarded ass over to his website or search it up in this forum. This is about you adding teeth to the wolfin' you did with this emotion-based, obviously ignorance-based... clearly bs-based rhetoric about claiming, as in you just talkin' playa hater bs, that "obuma is only capable of extending further damage on the Black Community."

    Let me show you how to raise an intelligent and, yes, an intelligible question with two words: HOW SO?

    You say "obuma is only capable of extending further damage on the Black Community." Exactly what do you base that on? Some lying (I mean lion=Roarin') Negro feelins? What?

    Instead the nonsense, Hannity-like stupid AND cowardly question of "WHOSE POLICIES?" (cowardly/coward-like because you don't have the courage to say what you believe, so you hide behind the powerlessness of suggestion-in-your-question)... Instead of showing how you are not my equal, step up to the plate.

    Again, I referred to Barack Obama's platform. Indeed, I said:

    If he pursues those in his platform then the "only capable of extending further damage" notion is sorely [mis]placed.

    Frankly, when Obama has pushed for and won legislation that allowed Black farmers to file their 'reparations'/discrimination claims, even if they were Rush Limbaugh's policies, no amount of bs about Obama being a mulatto LIKE THAT SH*T ACTUALLY IS A PREDICTOR OF SOMETHING would have me believe that such policies "extends further damage to the Black community."

    The same goes for his innovative, IMO, legislation to fund Predominantly Black Institutions (i.e. non-HBCU's, and obviously non-Ivy League colleges, with heavy Black student populations) or, rather, provide more grant money for "low-income African-American students" who attend and will attend those schools. I absolutely do not see how that "extends further damage to the Black community."

    As for his platform, directly about his platform, I don't see how his Harlem Children's Zone inspired Promise Neighborhoods would "extend further damage to the Black community." Likewise, I don't see how his co-sponsorship of the Second Chance Act which is implicated his his platform position on government programs for ex-offenders complete with critical rhetoric about the state of the criminal (in)justice system like:

  • "It's a system where certain sentences are based less on the kind of crime you commit than on what you look like and where you come from."

  • As we fulfill Marshall's legacy and strive to right the injustices suffered by Genarlow Wilson and the Jena 6, let's bend down and help every kid pick up his or her boots for a second chance.

    So, I'm just saying, I don't see how those policies will "extend further damage to the Black community." And maybe Obama's policies are Thurgood Marshall's given what I just quoted. It doesn't matter "whose" they are when they are what they are.

    Now tell me what being a Mulatto got to do with it? Again, Clarence Thomas is about the blackest Black person in America. His momma and his daddy were both Black. So show me how you're reasoning is about something other than bs.
  • quote:
    Who's government is it?


    If that's your issue then your issue isn't with Obama. Now that some stupid sh*t fitting of ignorant White folk who are ditto-heads for racists like Hannity & Co.

    Like you, they have this MISDIRECTED ANGST... hating the player when what they really hate is the game. Dude, you got issues with the government and obviously have had those issues and will continue to have those issues with or without Obama. That means your petty Negro issues aren't about Obama.

    So what manner of Negro sickness, acute (or is it chronic) Stupid Negro Disorder, do you have and WHY, oh WHY do you want to make this about Obama when there is obviously nothing Obama can do, being a politician/president, that can solve you issue with who authored and framed the government he aspires to lead for but a brief period?

    quote:
    Which of these policies are designed specifically to include Those or, the Descendants of Those brought over from the middle passage as slaves?


    It's pretty damn stupid for you to ask questions like that now. You talked like you were fully aware of the policies, so much so that you felt completely comfortable declaring that "Obama is only capable of extending further damage on the Black Community." The fact that you're asking about "these policies" SHOWING YOUR IGNORANCE about them, not knowing anything about them... showing your issue was never about them... Well, it's clear the reasoning you've shown to "the world" is very poor reasoning not worthy our people who, by all means, have every right and, I'm sure, plenty of reasons to take issue with Obama and his policies.

    Your problem is that you're a poor advocate. You have failed to articulate a SUBSTANCE-BASED, specific policy/policies centered criticism of the policies Obama seeks to pursue. But then that makes sense because it's not about the policies with you. The government itself is the issue with you because it was authored and framed by dead White presidents (and racists for sure). Now I'm all for blowing the mf up and, if so desired, having a new Constitutional Convention to make Obama's "all in this together" rhetoric real but I'm also real about people being honest.

    Now, you stop being a lazy azz Negro and tell me, after you've actually looked at Obama's policies (or at least those on his website and/or those referenced, however slightly, in his campaign speeches, etc.)... Tell me which of the policies he has pushed or proposed, individually and collectively, would fit your description. Tell me after you've done your homework exactly which specific policy/policies of his would "only extend further damage to the Black community."

    That's if your issue is actually policy based as opposed to "twisted fixation", Mulatto based bs.
    quote:
    Is amerikkka your country? Have you pledged your undying allegiance to it?


    WTF are you talking about? mf have you seen me pledged "undying allegiance to it"? Answer: No. All the more reason for you to find something else to talk about and leave these phony poses alone.

    Simply put, when you have an intelligent question... then and only then come back and open your mouth.

    I mean, really: know who the hell you're talking to... instead of assuming sh*t and hiding behind hope-filled, assumption-inspired bs questions like punk azz racist White conservatives (like the ones you mentioned). They are your equals. Your conversational intelligence and/or ability is on par with those weak mf's.

    Elevate your game, Roarin'... I'm not supposed to be your equal... So why are you coming at me with this low-level bs? Say what the fuck you think and stop beating around the bush or around pussified questions trying to suggest something you need to believe or project onto me because you can't deal with what I've said.

    If you were expecting Obama to be an "advocate" vs. a politician then that's your fuck up. But since you're asking stupid questions about which of his policies have something specifically to do with Black people then it's clear you're just fucked up in the head to begin with.

    Your issue isn't with his policies. It's with the perceptions you have. You obviously don't know much or nothing about his policies; can't be concerned with actually knowing anything about what you call yourself wanting to talk about. That's why you're asking stupid questions about his policies after you made a bold declaration implying that he doesn't have any policies that will do anything positive for the Black community.

    Here's a website to check Obama's U.S. Senate record. Simply find Obama (type "O") where it says "Select a Senator" and the bills he's sponsored in the U.S. Senate, 110th Congress come up. Click "New Search" and input Obama's name again and check 109th Congress for legislation in 2005 and 2006.
    Last edited {1}
    imo, reparations should come in the following forms:

    incentives to colleges for admitting qualified african american students.

    free education for all african americans seeking higher education or vocational school.

    policies making it easier for african americans to take out small business and home ownership loans at reduced interest rate.

    affirmative action has done more for white women than black people any day. it was supposed to do the above things, but ultimately has not. also, the college programs that used to exist for african americans have dried up, like the equal opportunity fund. i don't see many young black people benefitting like they used to from this. unless you're below the poverty line or rich enough to pay out of pocket, you can't get a witness with the above mentioned things. nowadays i'm told you can't even get a student loan so easily. used to be cake to get those no matter who you were. without loans, african americans really don't have a prayer of getting an education.


    imo, reparations should not be a check given over to black people. though i'm sure there'd be many who would invest that money, there are too many colonized folks who would then go out and spend that money on designer clothes, cars, jewelry and stay living in the hood with no viable options of moving out or improving their neighborhoods. the influx of "stuff" in the black community will only lead to more thefts and violent crimes.
    quote:
    Originally posted by Nmaginate:
    quote:
    Already you sound like one of those 'all but the white hooded' common-traitors hannity, limbaugh or o'really!


    lol

    Anytime you're ready to show me that you:

    (1) Can actually find a subject you can stick to.
    (2) Are over and above me, someone who you claimed was not your "equal."

    Anytime, Roarin'.

    You asked me (bluffin' like a mf) to show my reasoning. I did just that and referred you back to things I said the first time. Things you still don't have an actual intelligent response to.

    quote:
    By providing 'substantive evidences,' tell ME why?

    Okay, here's your chance for a do-over because that sh*t doesn't make sense. Tell you why.... WHAT?

    quote:
    ..you say that obuma is a politician.

    What? Are you wanting to dispute that?


    quote:
    Who's policy is it?

    I referred to his platform. I really could give a fuck whose policies you want to call them. Skip your retarded ass over to his website or search it up in this forum. This is about you adding teeth to the wolfin' you did with this emotion-based, obviously ignorance-based... clearly bs-based rhetoric about claiming, as in you just talkin' playa hater bs, that "obuma is only capable of extending further damage on the Black Community."

    Let me show you how to raise an intelligent and, yes, an intelligible question with two words: HOW SO?

    You say "obuma is only capable of extending further damage on the Black Community." Exactly what do you base that on? Some lying (I mean lion=Roarin') Negro feelins? What?

    Instead the nonsense, Hannity-like stupid AND cowardly question of "WHOSE POLICIES?" (cowardly/coward-like because you don't have the courage to say what you believe, so you hide behind the powerlessness of suggestion-in-your-question)... Instead of showing how you are not my equal, step up to the plate.

    Again, I referred to Barack Obama's platform. Indeed, I said:

    If he pursues those in his platform then the "only capable of extending further damage" notion is sorely [mis]placed.

    Frankly, when Obama has pushed for and won legislation that allowed Black farmers to file their 'reparations'/discrimination claims, even if they were Rush Limbaugh's policies, no amount of bs about Obama being a mulatto LIKE THAT SH*T ACTUALLY IS A PREDICTOR OF SOMETHING would have me believe that such policies "extends further damage to the Black community."

    The same goes for his innovative, IMO, legislation to fund Predominantly Black Institutions (i.e. non-HBCU's, and obviously non-Ivy League colleges, with heavy Black student populations) or, rather, provide more grant money for "low-income African-American students" who attend and will attend those schools. I absolutely do not see how that "extends further damage to the Black community."

    As for his platform, directly about his platform, I don't see how his Harlem Children's Zone inspired Promise Neighborhoods would "extend further damage to the Black community." Likewise, I don't see how his co-sponsorship of the Second Chance Act which is implicated his his platform position on government programs for ex-offenders complete with critical rhetoric about the state of the criminal (in)justice system like:

  • "It's a system where certain sentences are based less on the kind of crime you commit than on what you look like and where you come from."

  • As we fulfill Marshall's legacy and strive to right the injustices suffered by Genarlow Wilson and the Jena 6, let's bend down and help every kid pick up his or her boots for a second chance.

    So, I'm just saying, I don't see how those policies will "extend further damage to the Black community." And maybe Obama's policies are Thurgood Marshall's given what I just quoted. It doesn't matter "whose" they are when they are what they are.

    Now tell me what being a Mulatto got to do with it? Again, Clarence Thomas is about the blackest Black person in America. His momma and his daddy were both Black. So show me how you're reasoning is about something other than bs.




  • Cause you don't get it then.....you just don't get it. And obviously YOU, never will.....

    btw, your momma and daddy are probably both black, but I don't blame THEM for all that psycho-dribble you're spewin' above.

    But you still never answered ANY of MY questions that I posed POINT BLANK. But then the FAKE never can.
    quote:
    Originally posted by Nmaginate:
    quote:
    Who's government is it?


    If that's your issue then your issue isn't with Obama. Now that some stupid sh*t fitting of ignorant White folk who are ditto-heads for racists like Hannity & Co.

    Like you, they have this MISDIRECTED ANGST... hating the player when what they really hate is the game. Dude, you got issues with the government and obviously have had those issues and will continue to have those issues with or without Obama. That means your petty Negro issues aren't about Obama.

    So what manner of Negro sickness, acute (or is it chronic) Stupid Negro Disorder, do you have and WHY, oh WHY do you want to make this about Obama when there is obviously nothing Obama can do, being a politician/president, that can solve you issue with who authored and framed the government he aspires to lead for but a brief period?

    quote:
    Which of these policies are designed specifically to include Those or, the Descendants of Those brought over from the middle passage as slaves?


    It's pretty damn stupid for you to ask questions like that now. You talked like you were fully aware of the policies, so much so that you felt completely comfortable declaring that "Obama is only capable of extending further damage on the Black Community." The fact that you're asking about "these policies" SHOWING YOUR IGNORANCE about them, not knowing anything about them... showing your issue was never about them... Well, it's clear the reasoning you've shown to "the world" is very poor reasoning not worthy our people who, by all means, have every right and, I'm sure, plenty of reasons to take issue with Obama and his policies.

    Your problem is that you're a poor advocate. You have failed to articulate a SUBSTANCE-BASED, specific policy/policies centered criticism of the policies Obama seeks to pursue. But then that makes sense because it's not about the policies with you. The government itself is the issue with you because it was authored and framed by dead White presidents (and racists for sure). Now I'm all for blowing the mf up and, if so desired, having a new Constitutional Convention to make Obama's "all in this together" rhetoric real but I'm also real about people being honest.

    Now, you stop being a lazy azz Negro and tell me, after you've actually looked at Obama's policies (or at least those on his website and/or those referenced, however slightly, in his campaign speeches, etc.)... Tell me which of the policies he has pushed or proposed, individually and collectively, would fit your description. Tell me after you've done your homework exactly which specific policy/policies of his would "only extend further damage to the Black community."

    That's if your issue is actually policy based as opposed to "twisted fixation", Mulatto based bs.




    DUDE!!

    Boy, you sound just like one a dem pale-faces.

    And THIS is where you got it twisted.....I don't even LIKE rap.

    So.....hating? WTF is that?

    Be a MAN and answer MY question. Is this your government?

    Of course I haven't seen you pledge allegiance to it but then maybe THAT'S why I asked?

    Now will you answer or will you continue to give the little girls 'skipping' lessons?
    quote:
    Originally posted by Nmaginate:
    quote:
    Is amerikkka your country? Have you pledged your undying allegiance to it?


    WTF are you talking about? mf have you seen me pledged "undying allegiance to it"? Answer: No. All the more reason for you to find something else to talk about and leave these phony poses alone.

    Simply put, when you have an intelligent question... then and only then come back and open your mouth.

    I mean, really: know who the hell you're talking to... instead of assuming sh*t and hiding behind hope-filled, assumption-inspired bs questions like punk azz racist White conservatives (like the ones you mentioned). They are your equals. Your conversational intelligence and/or ability is on par with those weak mf's.

    Elevate your game, Roarin'... I'm not supposed to be your equal... So why are you coming at me with this low-level bs? Say what the fuck you think and stop beating around the bush or around pussified questions trying to suggest something you need to believe or project onto me because you can't deal with what I've said.

    If you were expecting Obama to be an "advocate" vs. a politician then that's your fuck up. But since you're asking stupid questions about which of his policies have something specifically to do with Black people then it's clear you're just fucked up in the head to begin with.

    Your issue isn't with his policies. It's with the perceptions you have. You obviously don't know much or nothing about his policies; can't be concerned with actually knowing anything about what you call yourself wanting to talk about. That's why you're asking stupid questions about his policies after you made a bold declaration implying that he doesn't have any policies that will do anything positive for the Black community.

    Here's a website to check Obama's U.S. Senate record. Simply find Obama (type "O") where it says "Select a Senator" and the bills he's sponsored in the U.S. Senate, 110th Congress come up. Click "New Search" and input Obama's name again and check 109th Congress for legislation in 2005 and 2006.




    Know who the hell I'M talkin' to!

    Who the hell are you? All of this gum-bumpin' you doing ain't impressed ME.

    I said I don't 'do' euro-politic's,' but that don't mean that I CAN'T.

    Do I look like I need a lesson in euro-politic's to you?

    Save your euro-educational-political-lecturettes for dem little girls you teachin' how to 'skip,'cause as I'VE already stated, you're nothing but a waste.
    Anytime you're ready to "show your reasoning" as it relates to what Obama being a mulatto has to do with anything in terms of his actual policies... let me know.

    Anytime you're ready to "show your reasoning" for asking about Obama's policies when you obviously are ignorant of them AND ARE TOO CHICKEN SH*T to talk about them now after I provided examples of specific policies aimed for the Black community... let me know.

    Anytime you can explain why you're asking what I pledge allegiance to when you have no reason to think I pledge undying allegiance Amerikkka... let me know.

    Anytime you can stop speaking FAKE Blackness and tell me how the policies I stipulated to, at your request mind you, actually fit your description of "only extending further damage to the Black community"... let me know.

    Anytime you can explain why you're crying about being lectured on Euro-politics when that was what you wanted to do in the form of questions like "whose government?" (You were not asking me if it was "my government" when you started off)... let me know.

    And skipping??? Negro that's the first thing you did when I first posted a response to your bs. Not knowing what to say, not knowing how to respond... you SKIPPED right over what I said and FAKED like I took issue with you saying something about people "holding out that he is but this great trojan horse in advocacy of OUR People."

    Like an unprepared, overmatched dumbazz the only response you could come up with was:

    Frown "I said some." Frown

    Anytime you want to explain why you needed, desperately needed, to project your "can't read" problems onto me... let me know.

    Obviously, you are not my equal and you can never "out Black" me.
    In other words, you are not my equal and your Mulatto bs was always that: bullshit.

    Same with your FAKE question a policies. You got me like Ali off in here though I know I didn't hit you that hard. So hard that after you asked "which of these policies..." that you're left without a word to say about these policies:

  • Predominantly Black Institutions grant program.

  • Harlem Children's Zone inspired Promise Neighborhoods urban policy.

  • The extension of the Second Chance Act via a government program aimed to try to help ex-offenders find work, etc.

  • Obama's legislation which gives Black farmers a chance at filing/settling discrimination claims.

    So it's clear to see that your claim that Obama can "only extend further damage" is either based on bs or based on something you've yet to clearly articulate.

    Those are the "preppy" points, points that shatter your bs claims, that you can't deal with. Points you knew were coming in the first place. That's why you ran scared with that FAKE azz warning that I'm not your equal.

    What you've just proven is that you're no my equal and you can never "out Black" me. You can have the bs Negro crown all to yourself though.

    Like I said from the beginning...

    Obama deserves plenty of criticism but this exaggerated bs and non-issue based nonsense needs to stop.

    Too bad you, a self-proclaimed advocate for our people, happen to be a poor advocate for our people and, worst, a poor advocate for your own position -- a poor defender of your own statements and claims.

    I showed my reasoning and VERIFIED that your reasoning was EXAGGERATED BS and NON-ISSUE BASED NONSENSE - i.e. just what I said. When it came time to talk policies aka issues, after your "which of these policies..." bluff was called... Well, you showed how it's not about the issues because you simply can't defend your claim that Obama would "extend further damage to the Black community" when it comes to those policies I listed which are just a few examples.

    So stop being a punk. As you say, BE A MAN and either advocate real, concrete issues or be man enough to say what your real issue is. Stop hiding behind "he's a mulatto."
  • quote:
    Originally posted by Nmaginate
    My reasoning is CLEAR, PLAIN and, by all appearances, UNASSAILABLE.


    I'm not really looking to come in between your little skirmish with Roarin, Nmag... however as someone who does think that Obama's lineage is a potential factor in his policies I feel obligated to express why I feel this way....Also while your points on this are quite good they are far from UNASSAILABLE as I will demonstrate with the follwing comments you made...

    quote:
    Originally posted by Nmaginate
    Because of that, I have no idea what you think a "GENUINE BLACK MAN" is and what a "GENUINE BLACK MAN" understands. You tying that sh*t to a person's familial heritage and acting like there's some hard and fast rule to something like that is bs.

    That's my reasoning in a nutshell.

    From what we know, Frederick Douglass had a White biological parent and you would have to have some real "GENUINE" mental problems, no matter what your ideology, to say Douglass wasn't a GENUINE BLACK MAN.


    I believe that your evocation of Frederick Douglas into this is a bad example...here's why...True by all accounts Frederick Douglas did have a White father however this issue is not solely based on biological lineage but also how he was reared. Unlike Obama Frederick Douglas probably had little to no contact with his white side of the family. He was born in a time that racial lines were clearly drawn so ALL he could identify with was his Black side. This was the basis in which he became such a strong advocate for our people.... one can only speculate as to whether or not he would have been the same had he been embraced by his white side of his family the way Barack was. If he had been THEN comparing him to Barack would be more accurate and we would be comparing apples to apples. For Baracks part even he admitted in his book 'The Audacity of hope" that he struggled with his identity so it's safe to believe that this has the potential to shape his world view and subsequently his policies....Although I'm not of the opinion that he will be out to hurt Blacks on purpose of course I do believe that he will feel more pressure to appear even-handed than a comparable white would so he may be a little tougher on Blacks policy wise....as expressed by his 'Black Responsibility' speeches.

    quote:
    Originally posted by Nmaginate
    Clarence Thomas is damn near blue black with no White parent(s) and I doubt you would classify him as a GENUINE BLACK MAN despite the racism he witness and faced in his formative years, etc.


    I always have a problem when people make this argument regarding Clarence Thomas' Blackness...or questioning if he is a 'Genuine Black Man'.... Let's be clear I personally totally disagree with Clarence on his views and I would debate him into the ground on them. However, what is NOT open for debate as far as I'm concerned is his Blackness... he is still a Black man no matter what his views are because that's what God made him. I hate when people equate how "Black" someone is with their views as if Blackness is an oppinion, state of mind, or belief system...it's NONE of those things it's WHAT we are not how we feel about a particular issue. That's part of the reason Blacks don't have much as a people to call their own because they are so quick to bestow things that should be uniquely theirs on others... up to and including the RACE itself...

    quote:
    Originally posted by Nmaginate
    Shelby Steele has a White parent. I'd put him in the same category as Thomas but Shelby's brother, Claude Steele, from the same Black/White union is the polar opposite of Shelby philosophically.



    Claude Steele is no more Black than Shelby they are both BI RACIAL one just identifies more with his black side and the other just identifies more with his white side that's all...and Clarence is BLACKER than them both NOT because of what he believes but because of WHO he is... don't forget that.
    quote:
    Originally posted by LieDecrypter:

    ...and Clarence is BLACKER than them both NOT because of what he believes but because of WHO he is... don't forget that.


    Ummm ... I think I might have to disagree with that! Smile

    "Black" is not merely a DNA signature ... separately it is also very much a state of mind. We weren't always "Black". The generations before mine was Negro ... which was a whole 'nother mentality. Being "Black" came about as a declaration by revolution.

    Clarence Thomas wasn't in it, and didn't embrace it. In fact, he hated everything about it (and himself).

    Soooo ... I would ask you to clarify and qualify what you mean before you go bringing CT off into this. Big Grin He may have dark skin ... but, I know White people who's "Blacker" than he is! Eek Razz And that's fo' sho'!
    quote:
    Originally posted by EbonyRose:
    quote:
    Originally posted by LieDecrypter:

    ...and Clarence is BLACKER than them both NOT because of what he believes but because of WHO he is... don't forget that.


    Ummm ... I think I might have to disagree with that! Smile

    "Black" is not merely a DNA signature ... separately it is also very much a state of mind. We weren't always "Black". The generations before mine was Negro ... which was a whole 'nother mentality. Being "Black" came about as a declaration by revolution.

    Clarence Thomas wasn't in it, and didn't embrace it. In fact, he hated everything about it (and himself).

    Soooo ... I would ask you to clarify and qualify what you mean before you go bringing CT off into this. Big Grin He may have dark skin ... but, I know White people who's "Blacker" than he is! Eek Razz And that's fo' sho'!


    I know people like to play with euphemism's all the time but at some point colorful language needs to be checked at the door....most races know to do this when it comes to their identity...Blacks do not. It's interesting to me that Black is the only race that can be accessed to any and all who venture to indulge in that 'state of mind'. It's funny that no one has had a "Chinese State of Mind", "Mexican State of Mind" or enter race here..."State of Mind" which afforded them full access to that race in the same way one can gain access to Black culture simply by adopting a state of mind.

    I understand what you are saying with the whole Black/Negro thing but at the end of the day that's all semantic's....Japanese actually call themselves NIPPON but that doesn't mean that they only allow certain Japanese to be called Nippon and others can't because of some politcal B.S. only Blacks play those kind of identity games with themselves....hence this whole notion that you can know a white person who is Blacker than CT....
    It's funny that no one has had a "Chinese State of Mind", "Mexican State of Mind" or enter race here..."State of Mind" which afforded them full access to that race in the same way one can gain access to Black culture simply by adopting a state of mind.

    I understand what you are saying with the whole Black/Negro thing but at the end of the day that's all semantic's....Japanese actually call themselves NIPPON but that doesn't mean that they only allow certain Japanese to be called Nippon and others can't because of some politcal B.S. only Blacks play those kind of identity games with themselves....hence this whole notion that you can know a white person who is Blacker than CT....---LieDecryptor

    I was 'riding along with you' on this until the analogy of Japan.

    The analogy fails, because 'color' is being compared to ancestral nationality and ethnicity.

    'Black' is neither.

    I, too, am always impressed with everyone/anyone being able to 'join the group' by simple declaration..., and while maintaining their society identity.

    Certainly, Senator Obama did it..., and I accept it.

    His relationship is stronger than many, if not most.

    He is of African ancestral nationality.

    Theresa Heinz-Keary, for example, is not..., and she tried to claim it.

    Many of all ancetries and ethnicities try to show a 'passport' into our community by 'talkin' that talk', or 'walkin' that walk'.

    Like the liberal use of 'Bro'.

    We have come to even imitate it when we know the term is 'Bruh'.

    But we embrace their ignorance apparently thinking we are being 'welcoming'.

    Why do they want to join?

    Why do they 'body-bump'?

    Why do they 'do things like us'?

    And still revile us?

    I don't know.

    I don't care.

    I do however refuse to teach them.


    PEACE

    Jim Chester
    quote:
    Originally posted by James Wesley Chester:
    I was 'riding along with you' on this until the analogy of Japan.

    The analogy fails, because 'color' is being compared to ancestral nationality and ethnicity.

    'Black' is neither.




    I'm well aware of this JWC...however those of us who identify with Black do use it as an umbrella term to encompass ethnicty as well as skin color. I used the Japanese example only to illustrate the fact that other people don't play the group and identity politics game when it comes to their race. As for the rest of what you said... twas' on point and I agree...

    Other races and ethnicities treat their respective groups similar to an exclusive club FOR MEMBERS ONLY and benefit immensely because of it ECONOMICALLY, SOCIALLY and POLITICALLY and have NO qualms about doing so because they know it's their BIRTHRIGHT...meanwhile laissez-faire negroes feel that if we do so then we are being 'racist like our oppressors' so they set out on this 'we are the world' campaign to break down racial borders....at their OWN expense...meanwhile other races maintain THEIR own integrity while exploiting Blacks open door policy.....
    quote:
    Originally posted by LieDecrypter:

    I know people like to play with euphemism's all the time but at some point colorful language needs to be checked at the door....most races know to do this when it comes to their identity...Blacks do not. It's interesting to me that Black is the only race that can be accessed to any and all who venture to indulge in that 'state of mind'. It's funny that no one has had a "Chinese State of Mind", "Mexican State of Mind" or enter race here..."State of Mind" which afforded them full access to that race in the same way one can gain access to Black culture simply by adopting a state of mind.

    I understand what you are saying with the whole Black/Negro thing but at the end of the day that's all semantic's....Japanese actually call themselves NIPPON but that doesn't mean that they only allow certain Japanese to be called Nippon and others can't because of some politcal B.S. only Blacks play those kind of identity games with themselves....hence this whole notion that you can know a white person who is Blacker than CT....


    "Semantics" you say? Confused Frown

    The fact of the matter is that NO OTHER race of people in the world had their identities extracated from them the way that our people did.

    Black people in America are the only one's who struggle with their identity because we are the only one's who were asked/told/beaten into being somebody else once we got to these shores.

    We left Africa as Africans. And we arrived here as Africans, as well. Within time, we were terrorized out of all vestiges of our history, culture, language, knowledge, and memory of self. It is disingenuous to me to reduce the struggle to re-establish and find definition of our sense of identity to "semantics." We didn't "lose ourselves" or opt for a "make-over" for a lack of anything else productive to do. Roll Eyes

    The Japanese, Mexican/Spanish, even Native Americans have an entire history they can follow backwards for a millenia (or two). The Black/African identity is the only one cut off and separated at two different shores with nothing but the blank void of the Atlantic in between.

    So, our 'state of mind' was not the formation of some "political B.S.", as you call it, because we had nothing better to do with our time. There was a necessity to establish ourselves to the best of our ability for the sake of both our own sanity and survival.

    Perhaps you believe that we've ultimately got it all wrong ... but, considering the circumstances, and IMO, we deserve a hell of a lot of credit for what we have accomplished to that end thusfar.
    quote:
    Originally posted by EbonyRose:

    "Semantics" you say? Confused Frown

    The fact of the matter is that NO OTHER race of people in the world had their identities extracated from them the way that our people did.

    Black people in America are the only one's who struggle with their identity because we are the only one's who were asked/told/beaten into being somebody else once we got to these shores.

    We left Africa as Africans. And we arrived here as Africans, as well. Within time, we were terrorized out of all vestiges of our history, culture, language, knowledge, and memory of self. It is disingenuous to me to reduce the struggle to re-establish and find definition of our sense of identity to "semantics." We didn't "lose ourselves" or opt for a "make-over" for a lack of anything else productive to do. Roll Eyes

    The Japanese, Mexican/Spanish, even Native Americans have an entire history they can follow backwards for a millenia (or two). The Black/African identity is the only one cut off and separated at two different shores with nothing but the blank void of the Atlantic in between.

    So, our 'state of mind' was not the formation of some "political B.S.", as you call it, because we had nothing better to do with our time. There was a necessity to establish ourselves to the best of our ability for the sake of both our own sanity and survival.

    Perhaps you believe that we've ultimately got it all wrong ... but, considering the circumstances, and IMO, we deserve a hell of a lot of credit for what we have accomplished to that end thusfar.


    ER while I appreciate your soliloquy reciting our ordeal to find an Identity (really I do) it just doesn't have anything to do with the point that I was making. You stated that CT was not Black or that you "knew whites blacker than him fo' sho" I disagreed based on the premise that we should have more pride and integrity with regard to the label that as you stated our ancestors worked so hard to create for themselves.

    Part and parcel of that is to not be so willy nilly with who we bestow the hard fought label of Black on. So when I see Blacks trying to deny Blackness to someone who is obviously Black like CT...and then turning around and bestowing Blackness on those who are obviously not simply because of their beliefs...that's where the political B.S. comes in...

    Now ask yourself a question if those ancestors that you cited saw CT and your white friend who you claim is "Blacker than him"...do you think they would agree with you? Just because of CT's and your white friends political beliefs?....I'm more inclined to believe that they would beg to differ with you on that.....and so do I.
    quote:
    Originally posted by LieDecrypter:

    Now ask yourself a question if those ancestors that you cited saw CT and your white friend who you claim is "Blacker than him"...do you think they would agree with you? Just because of CT's and your white friends political beliefs?....I'm more inclined to believe that they would beg to differ with you on that.....and so do I.


    Actually, LieDecryptor ... what I am saying has everything to do with the point you are making. You simply either don't or won't or can't see your way to understanding it that way.

    But, let me try to break it down for you this way: I absolutely think my ancestors would agree with me as to who was "Blacker", CT or my White friends. Because back in the day, they also had to make the same choice as a matter of survival ... i.e., if they were planning an excape, should they trust the the Black slave that would tell Massa to win favor, or the White abolitionist that would hide them from the dogs.

    The point of fact here is ... should the often talked about but never actualized "Revolution" for Black folks ever take place in this country ... there are any number of White people that I know that I would rather be standing next to me before I would trust Clarence Thomas to "have my back". 'Cause that dog would shoot me first - in the back - to save his own White privledge in a New York minute! Eek And I know that!! And you should too.

    However ... that you would trust his Black skin - and not his mentality and the overt actions of aggression he has continuously perpetrated against you (and all Black people) - as a measure of protection against those who would wish to harm you ... I don't think I'd want to be standing next to you either! Eek

    If you weren't already a target, there'd be a big one on your back before you parted ways with your 'brotha' CT!

    For me, the biggest mistake our people make about Blackness is that many tend to believe that someone is "obviously" Black just because there is a darkness to their skin tone. But you can scrap the thin layer of skin off with butter knife if you wanted to .. which is just about the depth of 'Blackness' in Uncle Tom.

    If you think the words "pride and integrity" in being Black .. and .. Clarence Thomas have anything to do with each other, then I owe you an apology, because I have mistaken you for someone who knew better. sck

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