quote:
Originally posted by jazzdog:
The man is running for the President of the United States, not the "Black United States", this notion that somehow he is going to get involved in every issue important to membes of the African American people is just alittle out of touch with reality. This is an election year, would most people actually believe him if he gave his word that he would be involved in every issue even down to the grass roots level.....NERGO PLEASSSSE! No matter how much white folks may love him, if he turns his Campaign into a big Campaign to resolve all of black america ills, the closet he will get to the white house will be as a guest for dinner.



Jazzdog, i find this line of thinking to be totally unrelated to whether Obama treats black constituents with dignity and respect. I am aware that some of his platform/agenda is beneficial toward african americans, however his public appearances as of late, seem to be either berating african americans for one reason or another, or patronizing them.

The "he's not running for black america" line is played out and irrelevant. What is relevant is the way in which he interacts with AFrican Americans and lately he's been unimpressive in that aspect.
quote:
Originally posted by jazzdog:
The man is running for the President of the United States, not the "Black United States", this notion that somehow he is going to get involved in every issue important to membes of the African American people is just alittle out of touch with reality.


Okay ... but is just one issue too much to ask for?? Confused

I was giving Brotha Man the benefit until he added that he had, "spoke our forcefully" ... he really should have quit while he was ahead.

According to him, he's talked about the predatory lending issue in the Senate and during his time in the State legislature. But he's been on the campaign trail for over a year and a half now ... could he not have mentioned during all this time?

On the Sean Bell issue, he asked Black people not to riot (as usual), on the Jena 6 issue he said it wasn't a matter of Black and White, but of right and wrong.

Meanwhile ... he has repeatedly told the Jewish community that the U.S. would be (I can't think of anything nice to say here) with Israel until the cows come home ... he has offered to speak to the Native American community about their civil rights issues ... he has assured Hispanics that he will do everything in his power to open a way to citizenship for those here illegally and will be spending millions of dollars with them to woo that community to vote for him. I don't know what the Asian community wants .... but I'm sure he'll do what he has to to give it to them.

He has thrown every Black issue (and anybody related to them) under the bus and chastised Black men for they lack of fathering skills and now ... for even attempting to ask him a question in a public forum!! Did he think the young man was going to try to steal the mic, so much so that he had to admonish him not to?? Confused

He doesn't have to "resolve all Black ills" for me. I would settle for him 1) actually calling one or two of those 'Black ills' a 'Black ill'; and 2) stop acting like some of Black America's issues are the same for everybody else! Unless there is another group of Americans who suffer from a history of enslavement by this country ... that "we are one" message he's spouting out is a bunch of bs ... and he needs to save that speech for those White folks who don't know any better and might actually believe that load of crap! Eek
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I started to actually compromise my nationalist tendencies when Obama admitted to not supporting reparations; I bought into him just "playing ball"...

I cannot compromise myself any longer..
I am a black nationalist to the heart and any brother who does not support reparations is not in the interest of the black community.
Blaqfist,

Do you think he needs to be in the position to do something about it first...I see it all as playing ball.....and also the three things that took attention off of Obama the most were rantings by pastors...orchestrated? maybe.....
"The "he's not running for black america" line is played out and irrelevant"

Whether or not you want to believe it or not there is a preception that black officials at the top of the government are suppose to automatically reach back and down and help resolve issues that are only related to the black community. Now other people can do that, but everybody knows that the rules change for us whenever this type of thing comes up.

That same thought process is at play in this Presidental Campagin, while I certainly would hope that any travesty of justice aganist us would warrent at least a comment by a Black President, I am certainly not expecting anything more then what we get now from a white President because that is how the political game is played. You are automatically suspect if you focus to much on one group (blacks) or don't focus on the regular groups (Jews) enough.

But I agreed with ER that could he at least focus on one issue that affects us and work hard on correcting that problem and quit making it a universal problem that affects everybody because there truly are issues that we face that other folks don't even have a clue about.
quote:
Originally posted by jazzdog:
"The "he's not running for black america" line is played out and irrelevant"

Whether or not you want to believe it or not there is a preception that black officials at the top of the government are suppose to automatically reach back and down and help resolve issues that are only related to the black community. Now other people can do that, but everybody knows that the rules change for us whenever this type of thing comes up.



i understand that and getting black elected officials into power so that they could positively effect outcomes for black americans has been a longheld political goal...

but what's (mostly) being discussed here is not whether he's running for the president of black america. Everyone on this board knows he is running for POTUS.

at issue, is his tendency to speak in stereotypical and dismissive ways toward black people and their concerns WHEN he does decided to veer off the path.

I understood that he could not speak/act in ways that would brand him as the much feared "black candidate"...he needs broad support.

But when he jumped off the well understood "i can't appear to black so i can't publically address to much black stuff" track ONLY to disparage black people and "handle" them as he did these young politically active brothas...it was out of line and one has to ask 17
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin41:
Do you think he needs to be in the position to do something about it first...


I agree and said the same thing more or less and I was told I wasn't making any sense! Nmaginate that! lol

quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
Awww .. see now ... all y'all need to get off Brotha Bam Bam's back!


Another thing I also said, and again was told I wasn't making sense! Nmaginate that! lol

Roll Eyes I guess neither EbonyRose or Kevin41 make any sense either.
quote:
Originally posted by Cocoa Starr:
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin41:
Do you think he needs to be in the position to do something about it first...


I agree and said the same thing more or less and I was told I wasn't making any sense! Nmaginate that! lol


quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
Awww .. see now ... all y'all need to get off Brotha Bam Bam's back!


Another thing I also said, and again was told I wasn't making sense! Nmaginate that! lol

Roll Eyes I guess neither EbonyRose or Kevin41 make any sense either.



uh...

Cocoa,

Ebony was being sarcastic sck
I am new here and I ask for entrance into this discussion.

I hope I am not rattling any sabers because I know how attached to Obama some folk are. It is prudent, especially from a christian, deliverer-oriented conditioning that many of us have been instilled with since youth in the West, particularly USA.

Obama is the most divisive black person ever.

He is divide and conquer personified.

"They" have strategically placed issues before him that split black americans in have. The mission is to effectively divide thus dilute black power for the forthcoming economic invasions in Afrika, also via the fear of the Chinese advancement card.

Its all orchestrated folks. Do we REALLY think that Obama just snuck up on the power out of nowhere against their agenda??

T

Attachments

Images (1)
LOL ... Big Grin

She probably hasn't been here long enough to know that yet, NS! Smile

But, yes, Cocoa Starr ... I was being sarcastic. It's kinda weird seeing some of the people who are disappointed with him now after them having had such a highly favorable opinion of him before.

A lot worse things are being said about him now than I ever said about him back in the beginning! Eek I was called a "hater" though. Roll Eyes

But I was just teasing e'erbody. Smile
The thing is, Cocoa acts like my position is supposed to change just because someone else says something similar to her. It's as if she thinks that is supposed to mean something to me like my position would be less valid if more people, hell everybody but me, agreed with her.

She obviously doesn't know me very well... But let's bring it back (and, yes, Kevin's comment doesn't make sense either):

Cocoa POSITION STATEMENT #1:
I would rather address those issues to President Obama than presumtive nominee Obama You know what I mean?

My response, since this idea doesn't make sense at all to me is: NO, I don't know what you or Kevin mean. That should be clear by what I've said in terms of Obama doing what he does when in front of every other voting group and that's "emphasize the specific policies and commitments he plans on making... just those in his Black platform (((the issues of particular relevance to African-Americans))) alone would do, IMO."

So, no, it's makes absolutely NO SENSE why a candidate wouldn't emphasize policy positions in his own platform and even less sense for prospective voters not to ask him where he stands on issues important to them and it makes even less sense to act like voters/prospective voters expectations for a candidate to emphasize his own platform positions is asking for too much. A commenter on Blacksmythe.com expressed the part of what I take issue with Obama for... better than I did:

quote:
[Obama] marginalized their concerns. Whether he has spoken to their issues isn't the matter. The problem is that they don't know that he has spoken to their issues, it's partially their fault, but it's partially [Obama's fault too].

Note: When Hillary broadcasted to the world with immediate media buy-in that Obama had a problem with White voters, even those White voters who had issues with him because of his race, let alone those who were said to question whether Obama could relate to their culture, Obama went out of his way to "introduce" himself to those voters. Keep in mind this was late April when Obama pulled out all stops in a state, Pennsylvania, where Hillary was always predicted to win.

All that aside, Cocoa's idea presents a FALSE CHOICE. It's makes no sense and is a false choice because:

(1) As noted, Obama doesn't de-emphasize the specific policies and commitments he plans on making to the specific non-Black groups he speaks to.

(2) In 2007 and perhaps prior to the Denouncement Season which started 1st and damn sure prior to 2nd Denouncing of Wright (after the NPC), Pfleger and Trinity incidents, Obama was emphasizing, to some degree or another, the specific policies and commitments he plans on making to the Black community -- i.e. his speeches in front of Black audiences.

(3) I'd rather a politician show equal respect towards us prior to the election AND after the election. Plus politicians who have felt so free to disrespect us prior to elections have had no qualms doing the same after the election.


Cocoa POSITION STATEMENT #2:
Let's just back up off the brother and vote him into office THEN when he's in the position of authority and can make those decisions, then press him with the hard questions and issues.

FALSE CHOICE #2. Cocoa acts as if Black people either asking Obama to address Black issues during his campaign or insisting that Obama emphasize his platform items is tantamount to not voting him into office. The logic simply doesn't follow.

If nothing else, Cocoa's idea suggests that Black people should shut up until Obama is elected. Worse, Cocoa frames the issue as if those brothers who were "misinformed", for the most part... brothers who Obama easily answered... somehow we're supposed to imagine that those were "hard questions" and issues???

Ummm... The fact that Obama had an easy, ready comeback indicates that the questions were softballs thrown right over the middle of the plate and hardly "hard questions." All the more reason why what Cocoa said just doesn't make sense.
quote:
I was called a "hater" though.


And you still are. The stuff you were called a "hater" for dealt with bs you couldn't defend...

quote:
It's kinda weird seeing some of the people who are disappointed with him now after them having had such a highly favorable opinion of him before.

Now that's fresh. It doesn't make sense for it to be "weird" when you yourself had as "highly" favorable opinion of Obama as anyone in this thread I know that has ever voiced their displeasure with something Obama said/did. (Exactly how you determine how "highly favorable" anyone else's opinion of Obama is/was, no one knows including you).

So, let's go down the list of people I know who have said anything I can remember regarding Obama.

MBM........ He doesn't count cause he's on Obama's payroll. Wink

Kresge...... Always had principled issues with Obama.

Negrospiritual..... Has been critical of Obama when she disagreed with something he said (e.g. the idea, real or perceived, that Obama praised Reagan).

Nmaginate..... I talked about the mf when he barfed that "Acting White" sh*t back in 2004. I reiterated, to NS as a matter of fact, how Obama needs his azz kicked over several f-cked up things he's said, etc. and I did that when me and EP went from thread to thread talking about Obama.

Sorry..... but I don't have a sense of where anybody else who posted stood on Obama. I know I talked with Wiz about how Obama is viewed in Chicago. So, from that, I know Wiz had a favorable view of Obama but that was based on things he's seen Obama do right there where he lives which is probably why Wiz invited the Uhuru brothers to FU-ville.

Other than that, there is no one you can be talking about and making an honest, truthful, factual observation.

And speaking about things Wiz can vouch for and the "weirdness" of seeing people supposedly change their opinion of Barack... You once said:

Do I believe [Obama's] 'on our side'? Absolutely. 100%.

... but, later, when people cited his Illinois senate and community organizer record as evidence of him, in essence, "being on our side".... you didn't want that to count. So you are the last person to ever try to be "sarcastic" when what I just described the whole change in it all can't help but paint the picture of a "hater."

But maybe you have an explanation and can elaborate on what made you feel Obama was "absolutely!! 100%" ON OUR SIDE in May 2007.
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Being in Chicago, and then having read the very thorough article in the New Yorker about Obama and politics in Chicago, the only conclusion that I can come to is that the system can not be trusted as it is and he is a candidate I like more than McCain or pretty much anyone else who ran for president.

One of the things that makes Obama so very different is that as many politicians as I have talked to (and for some weird reason there have been quite a few), he is the one politician that does not give you the impression that you are talking to his hand. Now will he give you the impression that he does not owe you an explanation, he does. It could easily be a trick, but it is one he has taken the care to play, which is about 15 steps more than other politicians are willing to give you.

He takes his approach, it is not one that everyone will be happy with, in fact, very few will be happy with fully, but it is still head and shoulder above the rest.


Politics is some ugly shit. Ugly.
Oh good lord ... I guess the meds have worn off! Roll Eyes

Back to the iggy button for you, Nmag! But I will admit .. your brief moment of clarity was nice while it lasted. Smile

quote:
Originally posted by Nmaginate:

But maybe you have an explanation and can elaborate on what made you feel Obama was "absolutely!! 100%" ON OUR SIDE in May 2007.


I will let the rest of that post (what you didn't quote or acknowledge) be all the explanation that's needed.

I don't think the rational among us will have any problem understanding my intent.
quote:
Originally posted by discipleofmaat:

Obama is the most divisive black person ever.

He is divide and conquer personified.


With about 95% African American support? nono
Hotep MBM...

That support is because of no viable option/alternative...the snafu of the 2-party system.

The support of Obama is no surprise because ones WANT a black person to be in such an elevated position. Obama is a reflection of our hopes, goals and desires as black americans. Many black americans who buy into capitalism or are otherwise influenced by white/male supremacy, feel at ease with a black figurehead. Look at is like Los Angeles black voters voting for Willie Williams over Daryl Gates after the Rodney King events. What black person would have voted for Gates?

Yet did the police stop rolling heads?

Obama is not (cannot) going to change the atrocities and death of those who run things. He will simply add anesthesia and amnesia to the medicine.

There is no mystery that a woman and a black were placed before america at this point in time of history.

You must have willful/complicit participation to move forward for the next step, just as the events on Sept 2001 caused psychological complicity for the aggressive actions in the Middle East.

Obama has already publicly slayed all opposition, including Rev. Wright, Farrakhan, Jesse, Bernie Mac and Ludicrus, not to mention the way he down-talked the young brother with the "you people" card. The point is that he is gaining his status (from whites) by chastising and/or downplaying different expressions of blackness.

Like Cosby, he represents the mindset of black elitism/hierarchy and placing blame on victims.

Obama serves as a catalyst of polarization. It is getting to the point in the black community where there becomes a "for or against" attitude. Many take the position of if you are against Obama, you are against blackness.

That is why he has been placed before us.

(PS, I know I am not talking "politics". If my post is out of category, I apologize)
quote:
I don't think the rational among us will have any problem understanding my intent.


I know the logical among us will see just how full of sh*t your "sarcasm" here was along with your "intent" when... after saying
Do I believe [Obama's] 'on our side'? Absolutely. 100%.

You wanted to play games... asking, What has Barack Obama done POLITICALLY to benefit African Americans?

Of course, that's something that makes the logical amongst us ask: what was the basis of the belief that Barack was "on our side" Confused And surely the logical amongst us wouldn't have any problem determining your intent when you asked the question:

quote:
Since this question is being asked specifically of the Clintons ... AND ... I can't think of one president since Kennedy/LBJ who has either ... AND ... the list of politicians/congresspersons who would fit into this category is rather short (if not non-existent, as well) .... AND ... we are now supposed to look upon Obama as this 'Great Black Hope' ....

Besides his community work a decade ago (which while noteworthy is still past history) ... What has Barack's benefit been to African Americans as a U.S. Senator ... if any??

... I've yet to hear what his political contributions have been to the betterment of Black people. So, if anybody knows of any ... please share!


After that question was answered you said:
The more I find out about Obama, the more impressed I am and the more I like him.

But give you a good month and you were right back to your games no matter what kind of information Urban Sun (and I) presented and research you claim you did that left you "more impressed"... you did exactly as I reported:

quote:
I think one of the main differences between you and me, urbanson, is that you choose to live in Barack's past, while I choose to focus on his present and the possibility of his future. It's a nice little comfort zone to talk about what he did, what he used to do, and what happened over a decade ago ... but in regards to what he's doing now ... there is nothing remarkable, unusual or out of the ordinary.


You obviously adopted angle-angst was to discount his state senate record under the pretense that he had not done anything in his current position in the U.S. Senate, something that was apparently completely irrelevant to your assessment that he was ABSOLUTELY!!! 100% ON OUR SIDE, in your estimation, back in May 2007. You declared him ON OUR SIDE even though you said he "cannot produce nor put forth a "Black Agenda"..." which you tied to his bi-racial, non-African-American background.

So, your idea that Barack was 100% ON OUR SIDE didn't seem to care whether something Barack did or was doing gave " direct and positive aid to Black people (or anybody else) on the streets of Chicago? Dallas? Detroit? Cleveland..." or alleviated poverty or reduced Black unemployment. Somewhere in there you faked like you had an issue with Obama's education plan and record in the U.S. Senate regarding it especially at the college level but the bill searching tool Urban Sun linked you to had these things:

12. S.114 : A bill to authorize resources for a grant program for local educational agencies to create innovation districts. ((The purpose of which can be found in "The FINDINGS" which have an obvious focus on making sure African-American students, in particular, are better prepared for college, etc.))

40. S.1513 : A bill to amend the Higher Education Act of 1965 to authorize grant programs to enhance the access of low-income African-American students to higher education.

41. S.1574 : A bill to establish Teaching Residency Programs for preparation and induction of teachers.

55. S.2111 : A bill to amend the Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965 to allow State educational agencies, local educational agencies, and schools to increase implementation of early intervention services, particularly school-wide positive behavior supports.

60. S.2227 : A bill to provide grants to States to ensure that all students in the middle grades are taught an academically rigorous curriculum with effective supports so that students complete the middle grades prepared for success in high school and postsecondary endeavors, to improve State and district policies and programs relating to the academic achievement of students in the middle grades, to develop and implement effective middle school models for struggling students, and for other purposes.

76. S.AMDT.524 to S.CON.RES.21 To provide $100 million for the Summer Term Education Program supporting summer learning opportunities for low-income students in the early grades to lessen summer learning losses that contribute to the achievement gaps separating low-income students from their middle-class peers.

83. S.AMDT.905 to S.761 To require the Director of Mathematics, Science, and Engineering Education to establish a program to recruit and provide mentors for women and underrepresented minorities who are interested in careers in mathematics, science, and engineering.

His website elaborates on what two of his bills (S.1513 and S.1574), which were just passed, are proposed/supposed to do:

quote:
Teacher Residency Programs: New approaches are needed for the effective preparation of teachers. The Higher Education Opportunity Act promotes innovative and effective teacher preparation programs for new teachers, including effective preparation, induction, and residency programs. It creates a path to develop high-quality teachers for high-need schools by encouraging partnerships between teacher preparation programs and high-need school districts. Senator Obama worked with colleagues to incorporate school-based Teaching Residency Programs which supports students pursuing master's degrees in education as they learn to teach in high-poverty K-12 schools alongside a mentor teacher, with strong mentoring and coaching for their first years of teaching. Residencies are partnerships that effectively prepare teachers for high-needs schools and establish career roles for established teachers, enabling excellent veteran teachers to take on roles as mentors and supervisors while still teaching.

Predominantly Black Institutions: Senator Obama worked with Congressman Danny Davis to establish grant programs for Predominantly Black Institutions - colleges that serve a growing number of urban and rural students whose family and financial situations limit their attendance at four-year colleges in other states. The Act also expands funding for graduate programs at Historically Black Colleges and Universities, Hispanic-serving institutions and, for the first time, colleges that serve large numbers of African American students


All of those bills were proposed in 2007 giving you plenty of time to research them in January, February, etc. 2008.

On top of those education items and several provisions for military veterans, Obama had these things in his U.S. Senate record:

34. S.1222 : A bill to stop mortgage transactions which operate to promote fraud, risk, abuse, and under-development, and for other purposes.

51. S.1989 : A bill to provide a mechanism for the determination on the merits of the claims of claimants who met the class criteria in a civil action relating to racial discrimination by the Department of Agriculture but who were denied that determination.


FYI, the last bill was for Black farmers...

So, with your curious history of ignorance or feigning ignorance of his U.S. Senate record, not to mention his Illinois state senate and pre-government record, it is all about your dubious INTENT...
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quote:
Originally posted by Wiz:

fuck them niggas. They ain't even thought about shit until Obama was running or they woulda showd up at Mccain's camp with that silly shit. Niggas that are not politically active on the local scene are not worthy of commenting on a national scene.



Translation from Wiz (Uncle Remus):

"Yowsah Mister Barack. Izzzzz gone get them young negros fo speakin out at yo gatherin. Who dem neeeegaaaazzzz be thinkin them is talkin to youzzzz when youuuuz tryin to talks to dem white folks. How dare dey!.

Mister Barack me Wiz is gone be yo version of Feeeedler. I strayten out them dare neegaz fo youse."



You pathetic bastard
maybe what he wants to do for blacks is too extreme according to many of those he needs votes from.....after W, i'll give him the benefit of the doubt.......that if nothing else he would appoint a court that would be less detrimental to black folks.......trying to be optimistic and realistic at the same time......
Any benefits of the doubt Obama had coming from me went out the door when he choose, not by political force or image coercion, to pathologize Black people, individually and collectively. And, I said and I'll say it again, asking him to treat Black people like he does every other voting group and asking him to emphasize (the full complement of) the policies outlined in his platform is not asking for too much.
quote:
Originally posted by MaynardJ:


"Yowsah Mister Barack. Izzzzz gone get them young negros fo speakin out at yo gatherin. Who dem neeeegaaaazzzz be thinkin them is talkin to youzzzz when youuuuz tryin to talks to dem white folks. How dare dey!.

Mister Barack me Wiz is gone be yo version of Feeeedler. I strayten out them dare neegaz fo youse."


You pathetic bastard
Me? Pathetic? No sir, it is you who are pathetic tryna pick dumbass fights.
quote:
I said and I'll say it again, asking him to treat Black people like he does every other voting group and asking him to emphasize (the full complement of) the policies outlined in his platform is not asking for too much.


Have you really asked him [or his campaign] to do this? Or, have you posted threads to blogs and/or message boards?

I ain't trying to start no stuff here. I'm just tired of reading pages and pages and pages of "Obama didn't do this" and "Obama ain't doing that". So I wonder how many complainers have actually made an effort to direct their comments to a place where they might be heard by someone who can make a difference.

I'm just saying.
quote:
Have you really asked him [or his campaign] to do this?


Why should anyone have to ask him, Kweli?? Is Obama and his campaign that f-ckin' dumb?

Why should I have to ask him when that was the whole point of the hecklers? What?? He didn't get the point then? Or after all the Father's Day fallout??

And who gives a sh*t what you're tired of reading...
quote:
Have you really asked him [or his campaign] to do this?


You know, Kweli, I have to thank you. You just encouraged me to voice my opinion. Here's what I posted on Obama's campaign site:


quote:
Dear Senator Barack Obama,

I've watched you presidential candidacy with interest ever since you announced that you would run. For the first time in my life, I voted in a presidential primary to support you. I've also supported you by challenging the myths and misperceptions people have had about your candidacy, particularly as it relates to where you stand in terms of policies and ideas that will help in improving the lives of African-Americans.

To be sure, I appreciate the time, effort and thought that have gone into the policies you've authored or co-sponsored in Illinois and in the U.S. Senate. I do, however, have to voice my concern regarding what appears to be a different track and different approach your campaign is taking, perhaps, for obvious reasons but troubling ones, nonetheless.

I won't beat around the bush: I feel that you have treated the African-American electorate differently than you have other constituency groups. And by that, I mean you have been, in my opinion, disrespectful to Black voters who, in a number of ways are responsible for where you are today in terms of the success of your campaign. A recent example was the way you treated the UhuruNews.com hecklers in Florida.

I understand, perhaps, the history of the groups antipathy for you and your candidacy but never in my life have I heard a candidate basically tell potential voters s/he didn't want their votes which is, in my opinion, what you did when you told the hecklers they had other options beside voting for you. I was quick to agree with you that they were 'misinformed' but part of the responsibility for informing voters falls on you. It's clear you understand that as a candidate, as a politician, because that's what you and your campaign did in Pennsylvania during the primaries during your 6 day bus tour.

So, I say all that (and I could say more) to say this: I would appreciate it if you and your campaign would see fit to treat Black voters like you do Latino, Jewish, Native American and White American voter groups.

Whether or not you know it or planned it, ever since your 2008 Father's Day speech, there has been a marked difference in how you address Black audiences and non-Black constituencies. Most notable is the way you make sure you inform audiences at La Raza, LULAC, AIPAC, etc. exactly, specifically and, dare I say, exclusively what you intend to do for them via your role as president in the government.

And that's the basic thing. It seems obvious to me that your job as a politician and as a candidate is to talk about what government can do (or stop doing) to improve the lives of whatever group you're addressing and all Americans. In my opinion and, more importantly, by my assessment of the difference in the speeches you've given before different groups, you have not been as vigorous, thorough and enthusiastic in informing African Americans about what you intend to do for us.

I say this knowing the drastic change in emphasis from your Father's Day speech in 2007 when compared to your 2008 speech. I say this observing how you've talked about the dire statistics in the Latinos and Native Americans communities, for example -- whether it be drop out rates or alcoholism -- but have not viewed those issues as a opportunity to do something that's, in my opinion, outside of the scope of your office/position as a politician and that's talk about anything other than what you and the government propose to do about the situation.

You're a Christian brother and I appreciate your faith but I would be remiss if I did not note how when it comes to other groups you "look beyond all their faults and see their needs." For the sake of your own candidacy, for Black people's sanity, if nothing else, I would appreciate it if you would also take that approach with African-Americans now and use your own platform, your full complement of policies that address many of the concerns and issues in the Black community, so that none of us will be misinformed about where you stand or have misgivings questioning if your stance has changed.

God bless you and your campaign,
Be strong and unafraid,
With love and respect,

N ~


I hope there aren't like a thousands typos in the message. Like Kweli has done here for me, I would like to encourage any and everyone else to at least register your opinion.

Anyway, thanks again, Kweli...
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
quote:
I said and I'll say it again, asking him to treat Black people like he does every other voting group and asking him to emphasize (the full complement of) the policies outlined in his platform is not asking for too much.


Have you really asked him [or his campaign] to do this? Or, have you posted threads to blogs and/or message boards?

I ain't trying to start no stuff here. I'm just tired of reading pages and pages and pages of "Obama didn't do this" and "Obama ain't doing that". So I wonder how many complainers have actually made an effort to direct their comments to a place where they might be heard by someone who can make a difference.

I'm just saying.



MF are you out of your damn mind? Why the hell should African Americans have to ask this white half-Kenyan to treat them with the respect he gives to other groups? Why should African Americans have to ask that boy not to belittle them, especially while on the campaign trail of all things.


Do you have any idea the precedent that boy has set? The type of blatent racial pandering he's been doing went out with the 1920s. And now he's brought it back and I guarantee that you will see that insidious form of racial pandering again in immediate future campaigns because the white candidate can say that a so called "black" or AA (which he is neither) candidate has done the same so it is not racism.


If it wasn't for AAs this white half-Kenyan wouldn't even have been allowed into this country.
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Anybody that thinks AAs have to sit back and keep their mouths shut, be talked down to, be used as racial pawns to pander to other groups is:


S I C K


AAs are the last group that some white half-Kenyan should be using as some doormat to wipe his nasty feet on to ascend to the presidency.
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quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
quote:
I said and I'll say it again, asking him to treat Black people like he does every other voting group and asking him to emphasize (the full complement of) the policies outlined in his platform is not asking for too much.


Have you really asked him [or his campaign] to do this? Or, have you posted threads to blogs and/or message boards?

I ain't trying to start no stuff here. I'm just tired of reading pages and pages and pages of "Obama didn't do this" and "Obama ain't doing that". So I wonder how many complainers have actually made an effort to direct their comments to a place where they might be heard by someone who can make a difference.

I'm just saying.



Kweli get out of my mind! I was just talking with a friend about the response I had received when i wrote 2 letters to the Obama Campaign asking that he reconsider blasting black dads as a campaign tactic. I wrote them shortly after the father's day speech. Here's the response I got from the Obama campaign via email:


Dear Friend,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts about my recent remarks. I always try to be
candid in offering my thoughts, and I understand that reasonable people can disagree
from time to time.

Hearing and exploring different positions and ways of thinking challenges our reasoning, sharpens our analysis of issues, and leads to new solutions. I appreciate having the benefit of your perspective.

Thank you again for contacting me.

Sincerely,

Barack Obama



Here's an email response I got after i called the campaign and left a voice message:

Dear Friend,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts about Senator Obama and his candidacy for
President. Senator Obama welcomes an open dialogue about America's future,
and hopes for the widest possible participation in a great nationwide
discussion.

Hearing and exploring different positions and ways of thinking furthers this
discussion. It challenges our reasoning, sharpens our analysis of issues, and
leads to new solutions. We appreciate having the benefit of your perspective.

One of Senator Obama's mentors was the late Senator Paul Simon, a man of
great ability and integrity. He believed that people could disagree without
being disagreeable, and Senator Obama has taken that guiding principle as his
own.

Thank you again for contacting Senator Obama.

Sincerely,

Obama for America

---------------------------------------
Paid for by Obama for America




For the record, I was not "disagreeable" in any of my communications with the campaign. If you'd like to see the actual emails, PM me and i'll forward them. But basically, it seems like form letters from his "team" and probably only generated after it was noted that i wrote twice. After this, I unsubscribed from receiving obama campaign emails so i haven't seen anything further from the campaign.


...subsequently, he made an address at NAACP where he stated "I'm not going to stop talking about it". Also noted is the number of AFrican Americans who can be seen literally applauding his comments appl which disparage black people.

back to the drawing board i suppose 19 *shrug*
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quote:
Originally posted by Nmaginate:
quote:
Have you really asked him [or his campaign] to do this?


You know, Kweli, I have to thank you. You just encouraged me to voice my opinion. Here's what I posted on Obama's campaign site:


quote:
Dear Senator Barack Obama,

I've watched you presidential candidacy with interest ever since you announced that you would run. For the first time in my life, I voted in a presidential primary to support you. I've also supported you by challenging the myths and misperceptions people have had about your candidacy, particularly as it relates to where you stand in terms of policies and ideas that will help in improving the lives of African-Americans.

To be sure, I appreciate the time, effort and thought that have gone into the policies you've authored or co-sponsored in Illinois and in the U.S. Senate. I do, however, have to voice my concern regarding what appears to be a different track and different approach your campaign is taking, perhaps, for obvious reasons but troubling ones, nonetheless.

I won't beat around the bush: I feel that you have treated the African-American electorate differently than you have other constituency groups. And by that, I mean you have been, in my opinion, disrespectful to Black voters who, in a number of ways are responsible for where you are today in terms of the success of your campaign. A recent example was the way you treated the UhuruNews.com hecklers in Florida.

I understand, perhaps, the history of the groups antipathy for you and your candidacy but never in my life have I heard a candidate basically tell potential voters s/he didn't want their votes which is, in my opinion, what you did when you told the hecklers they had other options beside voting for you. I was quick to agree with you that they were 'misinformed' but part of the responsibility for informing voters falls on you. It's clear you understand that as a candidate, as a politician, because that's what you and your campaign did in Pennsylvania during the primaries during your 6 day bus tour.

So, I say all that (and I could say more) to say this: I would appreciate it if you and your campaign would see fit to treat Black voters like you do Latino, Jewish, Native American and White American voter groups.

Whether or not you know it or planned it, ever since your 2008 Father's Day speech, there has been a marked difference in how you address Black audiences and non-Black constituencies. Most notable is the way you make sure you inform audiences at La Raza, LULAC, AIPAC, etc. exactly, specifically and, dare I say, exclusively what you intend to do for them via your role as president in the government.

And that's the basic thing. It seems obvious to me that your job as a politician and as a candidate is to talk about what government can do (or stop doing) to improve the lives of whatever group you're addressing and all Americans. In my opinion and, more importantly, by my assessment of the difference in the speeches you've given before different groups, you have not been as vigorous, thorough and enthusiastic in informing African Americans about what you intend to do for us.

I say this knowing the drastic change in emphasis from your Father's Day speech in 2007 when compared to your 2008 speech. I say this observing how you've talked about the dire statistics in the Latinos and Native Americans communities, for example -- whether it be drop out rates or alcoholism -- but have not viewed those issues as a opportunity to do something that's, in my opinion, outside of the scope of your office/position as a politician and that's talk about anything other than what you and the government propose to do about the situation.

You're a Christian brother and I appreciate your faith but I would be remiss if I did not note how when it comes to other groups you "look beyond all their faults and see their needs." For the sake of your own candidacy, for Black people's sanity, if nothing else, I would appreciate it if you would also take that approach with African-Americans now and use your own platform, your full complement of policies that address many of the concerns and issues in the Black community, so that none of us will be misinformed about where you stand or have misgivings questioning if your stance has changed.

God bless you and your campaign,
Be strong and unafraid,
With love and respect,

N ~


I hope there aren't like a thousands typos in the message. Like Kweli has done here for me, I would like to encourage any and everyone else to at least register your opinion.

Anyway, thanks again, Kweli...



appl appl appl appl
=> Nmaginate appl That's what I'm talking about. Honestly, when I read your first response I was like Roll Eyes that is so typical, people b!tch and moan in the dark, rather then make their grievance known to those in the position to act on or resolve the beef.

Then, I read your second response. It is a good letter that summarizes what I have written to and called the Obama campaign about. I'm not saying that it'll change anything ... so long as there comments come from one person here and one person there; but if thousands of Black folk write, call and shout this message, we will either see a change, or we will be justified in voting by seating this election out.

As a result, McCain would win and we will surely suffer; but no politician will ever again take the Black vote for granted.

=> MaynardJ

quote:
Anybody that thinks that AAs has to sit back and keep their mouths shut, be talked down to, be used as racial pawns to pander to other groups is:


S I C K


First, I wonder how many people in the real world that you address as MF? and, if any, how many split lips you must treat? If you wish to be considered, stop with the ignorant sh!t.

But more to the point, where did you get that I suggested that Black folks should just sit back? Where did you get that I suggested that Black folks should ask for respect?

What I did suggest is that if, and when, Black folk have a grievance, we should stop with the message board warrior bs and address our grievance directly to those we have beef with. It's called maturity.
The president of my organization is Black and when he was selected for CEO we Black employees was so excited. Finally, things will change for those of us who could not get a break no matter how hard we tried. Well, we took him to lunch and socialized the way we folks do but at the end of the day nothing changed. Its been 12 years now and nothing has changed for anyone but him. We hoped for at least more Blacks in management. Nothing. He got his bonuses, his social status (Jack and Jill meetings at our facilities and the formation of African American Leadership group)boost, his "atta boys" from the board, his invites to the cream of the crop boards in the community but us Black folks not in management positions got NOTHING but benefits sliced. Oh, white folks are more comfortable cursing in meetings now because he doesn't bit his tongue in using curse words.

Unfortunately, I'm not expecting an African American president to do anything for Black folks in particular. I would be pleasantly surprised if he did.
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:

What I did suggest is that if, and when, Black folk have a grievance, we should stop with the message board warrior bs and address our grievance directly to those we have beef with. It's called maturity.



Much respect brotha Kweli, but I have to disagree that we should stop with the "message board warrior" bit as you call it. It's an excellent way to crystallize one's thoughts, see where others are coming from, and try out new perspectives. Venting on a messageboard is in no way immature, and has value in that it can spur participants to further action. I would only add that bitching and moaning on a message board is a valid outlet regardless of whether a person is spurred to action i.e. direct confrontation or not. A messageboard is not an environment where one is required to put up or shut up.

Still, motivation from Kweli is always appreciated hat
N.S.,

Okay, we'll just have to agree to disagree, especially when ALL one is doing is b!tching and moaning on a message board.

I liken it to my problem with NTA's political analysis/prognostications, when he is very clear that he doesn't vote.

I just don't see the utility of engaging in debate without being engaged in the process.
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
N.S.,

Okay, we'll just have to agree to disagree, especially when ALL one is doing is b!tching and moaning on a message board.

I liken it to my problem with NTA's political analysis/prognostications, when he is very clear that he doesn't vote.

I just don't see the utility of engaging in debate without being engaged in the process.



I'll do more than that Remus, Andy, Fetchit or whatever your name is. I ain't voting for the boy.
Why folk always want to hate on Stepin' Fetchit?


ANyway here is an interesting story on Barack.

I think he never got over losing the 1st congressional race (all black folk). I wish you could have seen him them. He was watered down at the convention in 2004 and has been adding more water ever since. Lately he is a deluge. But I trust the core to be true.
i'm going to tell you right now that i'm very angry about this, so this post will have some misspellings, and possible grammar problems. i ask you to just focus on the content, because i need to just get this out.

look, those guys were lucky that obama did not get really raw and tell them the STFU!! because they would have deserved it. if you don't understand the position he is in, you are ignorant and oversimplifying.

just because the man is black does not mean he's supposed to get greasy with white people about everything. that is not effective, and it won't get him elected. he's taking the most intelligent route which is to remain forthright, but politically saavy. that way he can get into the white house and make whatever changes he can as opposed to being immobilized by BS.

heckling him at his own town meeting was just wrong. jews would never do that to each other, the hispanic community would never do that to each other. Asian folks would NEVER do this crap to each other. only the negro would exact that crab in the barrel nonsense. what, they think mccain is more suited to address the needs of a black man? because when they try to undermine obama like that, that's what they're doing, strengthening the white republican regime to come in for another four years and make the black community suffer some more.

why hasn't he addressed black issues? that incenses me. i think he very clearly answered the man's questions, and debunked the idea that he remained silent on those issues. but brother in the audience was missing the whole point. barack obama IS the answer to these issues. a black man this close to the white house, who has campaigned so eloquently is the change they're whining they want. why try to tear him down?

barack is right. you can't please all of the people all of the time. him speaking out about these issues is not enough for that guy in the audience. i liked that obama stated that maybe he didn't speak out the way that guy would have liked, but he did speak out. it's jessie jackson's job to coordinate marches. baracks job is to try to get the job where you lead the whole country.

think what you want, but know that obama will not get some votes because he's black. just because he's black. (and before some smart alec decides to tell me he's of mixed heritage consider this. in america we all know one drop makes you black. and what's better than tiger woods, is that the man claims it. he doesn't hide it or try to vin diesel his way out of it. and best of all, he's married to a black woman. he a role model if you ask me.) you would think that he could rely on the black community to back him up and offset the racist faction of the voting community. instead, as usual, nobody brings a black person down more often or better than other black people. this is more effective than any campaign stunt or insulting ad that mccain could come up with. i'm starting to think these guys must have been on the mccain payroll.

i blame jessie jackson's hating self for this. look what he started. even if some black folks felt this way, you never saw it blatantly and publicly until after jessie broke the ice on it. and here i thought we were finally maybe getting the hang of this unity thing that has helped almost every other oppressed race. silly me.

if you really think barack obama's campaign is flawed, how about getting involved with the campaign. how about volunteering for his organization or giving actual constructive suggestions rather than pointing a finger and saying "you didn't, you won't and you can't".

i think i would have felt better if the man in the audience had asked him about what he intends to do about such issues, or what his thoughts were about the issues rather than standing there complaining that barack said nothing about them. if you feel that way, get up and ask him to say something about them. don't heckle, gripe and shout while the man is trying to answer your question.

i really respect kweli and nmaginate for having the right idea and voicing concerns in an appropriate manner.

are we really better off with mccain? really? do you really think mccain is better for the country let alone our community? really? then why hate on barack obama now?
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little minx,

You can take that sambo geechy second class citizenship mentality back to that lawn you like to pose on.


No AA has to take anything from some white half-Kenyan. AAs are the reason that boy is even considered a citizen. AAs fought the system, not that boy.


You speak of self-hating and Jesse Jackson, at least he's smart enough not to use a color as an ethnic identifier, unlike your dumb ass who stupidly accepted whatever name Frosty gave your geechy ass. Hell I'm surpised you don't call yourself "Negro".


Hell no I'm not voting for the white half-Kenyan, I'll leave that for "Negros" like you. This African American ain't going for it.

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