Obama announces education help for unemployed



WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Obama announced new steps to help unemployed Americans on Friday, targeting people who are out of work and want to go back to school.

The president outlined a plan under which the Department of Education will send colleges legal guidance, encouraging them to increase financial aid packages for the unemployed so they can enroll in educational and training programs while keeping their unemployment benefits.

Under Obama's initiative, colleges would consider a person's current financial situation to make it possible for them to receive Pell grants, which are available for low-income students. The unemployed person would not lose any unemployment benefits and the maximum Pell grant would be increased in July by $500 to $5,350.

Current unemployment rules create a Catch-22: In most cases, if you are receiving unemployment compensation, you have to be actively looking for a job.

If you want to get more education or training, you have to give up unemployment benefits. But if you return to school, you don't qualify for federal education grants since, in most cases, your qualification is based on the previous year's income.

The government has started a Web site with information on the plan: www.opportunity.gov.

The Labor Department will also issue guidance "strongly encouraging" states to modernize their rules to allow more unemployed to continue their education without forfeiting their benefits.

"In a 21st-century economy where the most valuable skill you can sell is your knowledge, education is the single best bet we can make," Obama said.

The unemployment system should not just be a safety net but "a stepping stone to a new future. ... It should offer folks educational opportunities they wouldn't otherwise have and give them the measurable and differentiated skills they need to not just get through these hard times but to get ahead when the economy comes back."

Obama's remarks came shortly after the government announced that the unemployment rate hit a 25-year high in April, rising to 8.9 percent from 8.5. percent in March. There were signs of hope, however, as the monthly job loss total fell to the lowest level in six months.

CNN's Jill Doherty and Chris Isidore contributed to this report.



Find this article at:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITI...mployment/index.html
 
 BLACK by NATURE, PROUD by CHOICE.
Original Post
There is apparent contradiction here.

If a net-positive effect can be made to happen, it is a benefit...to African America.

It is not selectively so.

PEACE

Jim Chester
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
Tick off another Obama benefit to the Black community. appl


yeah appl

Finally... after all these years, Obama is like a cold glass of water on a parched tongue for this nation.
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appl I sincerely hope that this information gets widest dissemination within the community AND that existing organizations fight for these dollars to be spread in our community.
This hints toward what i have been saying to those who claim Obama does not have a black agenda...he does, but the acacdemic approach will make it appear to be coincidental or unintended consequences to those who not black.....and go right over the heads of black folks who think he is supposed to wear a dashiki and talk real loud about the motherland...which don't get me wrong..is not a bad thing...but his approaches will be subtle and the outcomes the same as if they were overt...the man is smart...really smart....and tends to outhink most......
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin41:
This hints toward what i have been saying to those who claim Obama does not have a black agenda...he does, ... his approaches will be subtle and the outcomes the same as if they were overt...


I won't go that far. I'll just say that a rising tide lifts all boats. I'm not sold on his having a specific AA agenda. But I also think he knows what policies applied liberally to all would have positive disparate impacts on AAs.


quote:
the man is smart...really smart....and tends to outhink most......



yeah

He's brilliant and puts his brilliance to good use.
I would go that far...if anyone thinks this has been done without some kind of impact analysis on various black demographics (young, old, rural, metro, etc.) then they believe in policy by happenstance.....
appl Now that right there is what I call a PRESIDENT. tfro

quote:
I sincerely hope that this information gets widest dissemination within the community AND that existing organizations fight for these dollars to be spread in our community.
Helping make folk in the community aware of this would be a great way to get involved, actually.
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin41:
if anyone thinks this has been done without some kind of impact analysis on various black demographics (young, old, rural, metro, etc.) then they believe in policy by happenstance.....


There's a difference between thoughtful analysis of intended (and unintended) consequences and having one of those consequences *drive* your policy making. One can perform the first without having to refer back to it to do the second.

At any rate, it's a good plan and is a win for black folk...
quote:
Originally posted by shulamite:
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin41:
if anyone thinks this has been done without some kind of impact analysis on various black demographics (young, old, rural, metro, etc.) then they believe in policy by happenstance.....


There's a difference between thoughtful analysis of intended (and unintended) consequences and having one of those consequences *drive* your policy making. One can perform the first without having to refer back to it to do the second.

At any rate, it's a good plan and is a win for black folk...


I agree that it is a good plan and a win...but all intentions do not have to be stated in order to be your intentions....it could be driving policy for all we know....

ER...it would be interesting to see what myman Noah thinks of this.....
yeah K41, Personally I believe that it his plan is, and always has been, about a Black agenda but convention prevents him from even suggesting that he has more than a passing concern for Black folks ... these are the political times we live in.

But even, if that is not the case, why are we [the Black community] even having discussions where we are second guessing his motives? Do we second-guess the motives of the company that hires us? Do we second guess the motives of the school that educates us? Do we refuse to accept either one because the job title/title of the school is not what we would have it be?

Nope ... We take that that benefits us and move on.
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
yeah K41, Personally I believe that it his plan is, and always has been, about a Black agenda but convention prevents him from even suggesting that he has more than a passing concern for Black folks ... these are the political times we live in.

But even, if that is not the case, why are we [the Black community] even having discussions where we are second guessing his motives? Do we second-guess the motives of the company that hires us? Do we second guess the motives of the school that educates us? Do we refuse to accept either one because the job title/title of the school is not what we would have it be?

Nope ... We take that that benefits us and move on.


Great point KFR....yeah, selective motivation to castigate seems to be a common human tendency......
I would be so bothered if that human trait weren't so heavily represented amongst our folks ... towards our folks; whereas, we tend towards forgiveness/tolerance/acceptance towards everyone else.

In other words, we be hatin' on us.
Kevin and Kweli,

I'm neither castigating or hatin on the brotha. He's got my full support.

I'm simply not convinced that he had a personal, internal conversation saying "I've *got* to help black folks wrt education or wrt (_fill in the blank_), but do it on the d.l. by instituting broad policies". That doesn't translate into haterade. It says the man is the President of all of America, not black America with a specifically black agenda to advance - something in keeping with his now famous race speech at PHL.

A rising tide lifts all boats...

quote:
why are we [the Black community] even having discussions where we are second guessing his motives?


The same way that we [the Black community] have discussions reading pro-black motives into a policy that may not be there because we like to feel that someone with serious power specifically has our backs. It's not a bad feeling to have, by any means, and is long overdue in modern American history. But it may not be accurate.

quote:
We take that that benefits us and move on.


Agreed. I've already said that it's a win for black folk.

---

The one time that I saw President Obama specifically protect black interests (something that went over the heads of most white folk) was during his campaign when he was (ironically) refuting a claim that he supported either Farrakhan or Rev. Wright - and while refuting it used the words of Malcolm X indicting white America for their racism. It was an ingenious strike at white racism and an affirmation of one of black America's most influential leaders.
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin41:

ER...it would be interesting to see what myman Noah thinks of this.....


Noah won't think anything of this because it shows the possibility of President Obama doing something that has a positive effect for Black people.

If you will notice, Noah INTENTIONALLY passed up the opportunity to comment on this thread but probably almost broke his fingers and made his keyboard smoke to write a negative comment in the thread about the President not authorizing $85 million for HBCUs! Eek

In fact I didn't even bother to read his last comment, because I'm pretty sure I've heard it all before! sleep < insert violin playing smilie here!! >

It's HATE or nothing for our friend, NTA. You should know that by now, K41 .. and expect nothing more than that from him! Big Grin
I would not characterize this as disproportionately a benefit to black people, even though black people are disproportionately unemployed. The reason being is that blacks are disproportionately amongst the LONG TERM unemployed, whose unemployment benefits have already run out. This is beneficial to the people whose unemployment is a recent phenomenon and black unemployment has been over twice the rate of whites for as long as I can remember. Blacks suffer from chronic unemployment, while whites and others suffer from recession related unemployment. Black unemployment tends to me more structural and logistical…..not cyclical and frictional.

That said, what professions are people going to get educated in to get a job in this economy? Many educated people are out of work. The job growth that is taking place is mostly in the government sector. I have long argued that only a 3rd; at the most, of the total jobs in the economy require post secondary education. It truth, it’s more like 27% of jobs. Thus, theoretically, you can have 80% of the work force seeking college degrees, but in the game of musical chairs, if 10 people are circling around and competing for 3 chairs, when the music stops……only 3 people will be able to sit. Just like there is a military industrial complex, there is also an educational industrial complex in America. There are too many schools of higher education as it is. The education industrial complex employs millions of people and need enrollment to sustain it. I am not saying that education is bad and should not be sought, but that we need to look at it for what it is…….an industry seeking customers.

Everyone should strive to be as educated as possible, if one can afford the opportunity cost. However, getting educated does not mean you will get a job that requires your level of education. Our economy NEEDS and has more demand for uneducated people than it does for educated people. Just saying...just as politics need more uneducated people so that it can ShamWow them for their vote...
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quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin41:

ER...it would be interesting to see what myman Noah thinks of this.....


Noah won't think anything of this because it shows the possibility of President Obama doing something that has a positive effect for Black people.

If you will notice, Noah INTENTIONALLY passed up the opportunity to comment on this thread but probably almost broke his fingers and made his keyboard smoke to write a negative comment in the thread about the President not authorizing $85 million for HBCUs! Eek

In fact I didn't even bother to read his last comment, because I'm pretty sure I've heard it all before! sleep < insert violin playing smilie here!! >

It's HATE or nothing for our friend, NTA. You should know that by now, K41 .. and expect nothing more than that from him! Big Grin


I give praise when I see it due. I praised Obama for his position on credit card fees....and his selection of Eric Holder and probably one or two more things that I cannot remember. I will continue and praise and condemn as I see fit.

I still feel that Obama is like that "ShamWow" salesman.....selling a product that really does not do what it says....and that product is essentially himself and his policies. Granted....its the typical politician infomercial BS to get people to buy in with their votes.
quote:
Originally posted by shulamite:

The one time that I saw President Obama specifically protect black interests (something that went over the heads of most white folk) was during his campaign when he was (ironically) refuting a claim that he supported either Farrakhan or Rev. Wright - and while refuting it used the words of Malcolm X indicting white America for their racism. It was an ingenious strike at white racism and an affirmation of one of black America's most influential leaders.


I would give anything to be able to live inside the President's brain for a day! Smile

It's hard to figure out what's really going on in there. Just from general observation of him, I do believe that his non-discriminatory, 'We are the world' outlook and mindset are very real and is probably the biggest shaper of his perspective on life in general. His upbringing would have dictated a certain 'acceptance' of all peoples that few others, regardless of race, would have been exposed to, and therefore, are able to truly and fully understand.

I also believe that his sentimentalities lie more strongly along the lines of (economic) disadvantage than they do of race. And in that, discrepancies encompass the entire spectrum of humankind. Nobody gets left out (based on race).

However .... I don't think that the 'slap-in-the-face' reality check that he had to go through with regard to race - and most especially identity - was in any way insignificant. Unfortunately, I haven't yet read his autobiography Dreams From My Father, which I suspect would answer a lot of my questions for me, but EVERY Black person in America has the experience of realizing EXACTLY what that means. And Obama had his 'moment' as well .... which, I think also has profoundly shaped his perspective and way of thinking.

I don't think his highly profound level of intelligence would allow him not to see (and consequently feel) what racism and discrimination had done to Black people and contributed to the Black experience in this country. Anybody with a piece of a mind can see that writing on the wall! Eek

Therefore, I wouldn't be at all surprised if part (a big part) of what shapes his "A rising tide lifts all boats" perspective was based on a 'strictly' Black agenda ... knowing that with us being on the bottom of the totem pole, any plan to help us naturally lifts everyone, who are more than likely better off than we are ... all things considered.

Although he tries HARD to hide it (and does a very good job of it, if you ask me! Big Grin) there are times like the one you mentioned, where the 'Black man' in him comes out and is fully exposed for anybody who's lookin' (or perhaps that's better put: for anybody who can see it!) From his deciding to set up shop in Chicago, to picking Michelle (or Michelle picking him 19) to his choice of closest friends and preferred entertainment .... he IS a Black man living in America ... and all that encompasses.
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
quote:
Originally posted by shulamite:

The one time that I saw President Obama specifically protect black interests (something that went over the heads of most white folk) was during his campaign when he was (ironically) refuting a claim that he supported either Farrakhan or Rev. Wright - and while refuting it used the words of Malcolm X indicting white America for their racism. It was an ingenious strike at white racism and an affirmation of one of black America's most influential leaders.


I would give anything to be able to live inside the President's brain for a day! Smile

It's hard to figure out what's really going on in there. Just from general observation of him, I do believe that his non-discriminatory, 'We are the world' outlook and mindset are very real and is probably the biggest shaper of his perspective on life in general. His upbringing would have dictated a certain 'acceptance' of all peoples that few others, regardless of race, would have been exposed to, and therefore, are able to truly and fully understand.

I also believe that his sentimentalities lie more strongly along the lines of (economic) disadvantage than they do of race. And in that, discrepancies encompass the entire spectrum of humankind. Nobody gets left out (based on race).

However .... I don't think that the 'slap-in-the-face' reality check that he had to go through with regard to race - and most especially identity - was in any way insignificant. Unfortunately, I haven't yet read his autobiography Dreams From My Father, which I suspect would answer a lot of my questions for me, but EVERY Black person in America has the experience of realizing EXACTLY what that means. And Obama had his 'moment' as well .... which, I think also has profoundly shaped his perspective and way of thinking.

I don't think his highly profound level of intelligence would allow him not to see (and consequently feel) what racism and discrimination had done to Black people and contributed to the Black experience in this country. Anybody with a piece of a mind can see that writing on the wall! Eek

Therefore, I wouldn't be at all surprised if part (a big part) of what shapes his "A rising tide lifts all boats" perspective was based on a 'strictly' Black agenda ... knowing that with us being on the bottom of the totem pole, any plan to help us naturally lifts everyone, who are more than likely better off than we are ... all things considered.

Although he tries HARD to hide it (and does a very good job of it, if you ask me! Big Grin) there are times like the one you mentioned, where the 'Black man' in him comes out and is fully exposed for anybody who's lookin' (or perhaps that's better put: for anybody who can see it!) From his deciding to set up shop in Chicago, to picking Michelle (or Michelle picking him 19) to his choice of closest friends and preferred entertainment .... he IS a Black man living in America ... and all that encompasses.




No...more like
quote:
Originally posted by shulamite:
EbonyRose, that was really well put and nuanced. Thanks...


off

Have you read Dreams yet, shulamite?? Confused
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
Have you read Dreams yet, shulamite??


Not yet... it's on my (long) list of things to read this summer.
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:

I would be so bothered if that human trait weren't so heavily represented amongst our folks ... towards our folks; whereas, we tend towards forgiveness/tolerance/acceptance towards everyone else.

In other words, we be hatin' on us.



Kweli, there are legitimate criticisms to make in a number of areas and that has nothing to do with "hatin" or any negative characteristics anyone may want to assign to "our folks".

it's only slightly more than 100 days in and it's just as premature to act like everything's hunky dory 100 days in as it is to act like everything the administration is horribly wrong and harmful.

It's quite allright and not the least bit "hatin" Roll Eyes to recognize that while some small campaign issues have been checked off, (and that's good) the epidemic of home foreclosures still rages, we are still engaged in 2 simultaneous wars draining our economy, jobs are being cut every day, and healthcare is still the number one reason to file bankruptcy, in additio nto the fact that single payer healthcare IS NOT ON THE TABLE so we can't yet go around branding other people "haters" for no particularly sound reasons.
quote:
Originally posted by negrospiritual:
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:

I would be so bothered if that human trait weren't so heavily represented amongst our folks ... towards our folks; whereas, we tend towards forgiveness/tolerance/acceptance towards everyone else.

In other words, we be hatin' on us.



Kweli, there are legitimate criticisms to make in a number of areas and that has nothing to do with "hatin" or any negative characteristics anyone may want to assign to "our folks".

it's only slightly more than 100 days in and it's just as premature to act like everything's hunky dory 100 days in as it is to act like everything the administration is horribly wrong and harmful.

It's quite allright and not the least bit "hatin" Roll Eyes to recognize that while some small campaign issues have been checked off, (and that's good) the epidemic of home foreclosures still rages, we are still engaged in 2 simultaneous wars draining our economy, jobs are being cut every day, and healthcare is still the number one reason to file bankruptcy, in additio nto the fact that single payer healthcare IS NOT ON THE TABLE so we can't yet go around branding other people "haters" for no particularly sound reasons.




Sorry I could not find any Negroes clapping Big Grin
quote:
Originally posted by shulamite:
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
Have you read Dreams yet, shulamite??


Not yet... it's on my (long) list of things to read this summer.


Yeah .. mine, too! Smile

But, my curiosity has been piqued ... so, I think I'm gonna go by Half-Price Books tonight and see if they have it in stock! Big Grin
quote:
Kweli, there are legitimate criticisms to make in a number of areas and that has nothing to do with "hatin" or any negative characteristics anyone may want to assign to "our folks".

it's only slightly more than 100 days in and it's just as premature to act like everything's hunky dory 100 days in as it is to act like everything the administration is horribly wrong and harmful.



Agreed. But what, or better ... whom, I'm talking about are those who say he [Obama] is a typical politician, saying whatever he needs to say to get elected; then when presented with evidence of THIS politician doing exactly what he said he would do [albeit, only 100 days into the term] ... there is no acknowledgement of any accomplishment ... period ... they just move to the next criticism.

This situation is all the more haterifically suspect when that same critic remains silent or remains actively supportive of white politicians when they behave as the typical politician.

That in me view moves it into the hater category.

quote:
It's quite allright and not the least bit "hatin" to recognize that while some small campaign issues have been checked off, (and that's good) the epidemic of home foreclosures still rages, we are still engaged in 2 simultaneous wars draining our economy, jobs are being cut every day, and healthcare is still the number one reason to file bankruptcy, in additio nto the fact that single payer healthcare IS NOT ON THE TABLE so we can't yet go around branding other people "haters" for no particularly sound reasons.


Not calling you a hater, but you do realize he is only a little more than 100 days in, right? Oh yeah, you did say ...
quote:
it's only slightly more than 100 days in and it's just as premature to act like everything's hunky dory 100 days in as it is to act like everything the administration is horribly wrong and harmful.
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:

This situation is all the more haterifically suspect..



haterifically suspect Eek

20
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
quote:
Kweli, there are legitimate criticisms to make in a number of areas and that has nothing to do with "hatin" or any negative characteristics anyone may want to assign to "our folks".

it's only slightly more than 100 days in and it's just as premature to act like everything's hunky dory 100 days in as it is to act like everything the administration is horribly wrong and harmful.

It's quite allright and not the least bit "hatin" to recognize that while some small campaign issues have been checked off, (and that's good) the epidemic of home foreclosures still rages, we are still engaged in 2 simultaneous wars draining our economy, jobs are being cut every day, and healthcare is still the number one reason to file bankruptcy, in additio nto the fact that single payer healthcare IS NOT ON THE TABLE so we can't yet go around branding other people "haters" for no particularly sound reasons.


Agreed. But what, or better ... whom, I'm talking about are those who say he [Obama] is a typical politician, saying whatever he needs to say to get elected; then when presented with evidence of THIS politician doing exactly what he said he would do ... there is no acknowledgement of the accomplishment ... period ... they just move to the next criticism. This situation is all the more haterifically suspect when that same critic remains silent or remains actively supportive of the white politician when they behave as the typical politician.

That in me view moves it into the hater category.


Why don’t you just say my name……I don’t bite….I just byte back. I have two issues: One is with politicians not doing what they say they are going to do and them doing things that they said they would do……that are in the long term detrimental. Obama has in no way separated himself from other politicians. Granted, these are really different times economically, so we are seeing different responses. However, I see no difference in Obama, really, than any other white democrat who would have taken office. White democrats have believed in targeting their base, which is the working class and lower class, pro choice etc…crowd. What are we getting in a black president, policy wise, that we would not have gotten from a white democrat? NADA….and I would argue that there would not be as much need to walk the tight rope and not be seen as favoring blacks to much……from a white Democrat. If Obama did anything that looks like it was favoring blacks……the “Ahaaaa!!! See I told you would come out of white folks. He was pretending all along to get our votes to redistribute to black people and that is why he was part of that church…LOL”. You know it and I know it. White folks generally don’t have to walk that tight rope and hence feel the need to overcompensate away from such perceptions being created.

All that said…..people fawning over Obama when the nation is collapsing seems to be misplaced emotions.
My finely crafted initial post disappeared into cyber-space; but suffice it to say ... throw a rock and the dog that yelps is the dog that got hit.

But honestly, I was not speaking specifically on or about you; however, I was speaking to your demonstrated mindset. One where you seem singularly incapable of expressing complimentary words for folks that look like you; where you hold Black politicians to a higher standard; where you are oh so willing to call a Black person to task, but are all crickety when white politicians do far less; where you consider individual Black progress/success as a detriment to the progress of Black community because of what white folks might think; where you support that white candidate who has ignored the Black community until election time because that white candidate might gonna do something. That is the mindset that I decry and unapologetically label haterific.

quote:
I have two issues: One is with politicians not doing what they say they are going to do and them doing things that they said they would do……that are in the long term detrimental.


Then by that standard, you should be mute on the subject of the Obama presidency to this point. Obama IS doing what he said he would, whether you acknowledge it or not. But moreso, unless your minoring in economics and/or belief in a "economic schools" that have had zero real world application [but rests on historical modeling, just like the deficient Keynesian and Freedman models and suggests that the economic solution is akin to killing the patient, making another baby and naming it after the dead patient] trumps Nobel Laureates, you have no more knowledge of what is detrimental in the long term.
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
My finely crafted initial post disappeared into cyber-space; but suffice it to say ... throw a rock and the dog that yelps is the dog that got hit.

But honestly, I was not speaking specifically on or about you; however, I was speaking to your demonstrated mindset. One where you seem singularly incapable of expressing complimentary words for folks that look like you; where you hold Black politicians to a higher standard; where you are oh so willing to call a Black person to task, but are all crickety when white politicians do far less; where you consider individual Black progress/success as a detriment to the progress of Black community because of what white folks might think; where you support that white candidate who has ignored the Black community until election time because that white candidate might gonna do something. That is the mindset that I decry and unapologetically label haterific.

quote:
I have two issues: One is with politicians not doing what they say they are going to do and them doing things that they said they would do……that are in the long term detrimental.


Then by that standard, you should be mute on the subject of the Obama presidency to this point. Obama IS doing what he said he would, whether you acknowledge it or not. But moreso, unless your minoring in economics and/or belief in a "economic schools" that have had zero real world application [but rests on historical modeling, just like the deficient Keynesian and Freedman models and suggests that the economic solution is akin to killing the patient, making another baby and naming it after the dead patient] trumps Nobel Laureates, you have no more knowledge of what is detrimental in the long term.


I hold black politicians to a higher standard…..based upon a sample set of how many? Note you used the plural….black politicians. Where is your evidence? You haven’t any. Your sample set of black politicians consist only of Obama your time frame is since he started running for President. Thus, the premise of your dissent cannot even be supported and therefore invalidates and conclusions drawn from that faulty premise.

I tend not to focus on the color of the politicians as much as I focus on the color demographics of the district that they represent. Remember, this is a MAJORITY RULE Representative Republic. Hence, in order to get power and maintain power, one has to appeal to and continue to satisfy the dominate color in the majority rule construct of American politics. Most black politicians preside over districts that are predominately black. This is when black politicians do the most for black folks...because they have to convince and appeal to what black wants. However, when black politicians are to represent a majority white constituency, then they are beholden to represent those white peoples perspectives. This aint rocket science.

White politicians who govern or represent predominantly white constituency are just as beholden to the white constituency as a black politician is. So the fact that a white politician does not do for the black community is born from the same impediment that prevents a black politician from doing it in the same predominantly white electorate. This is what I inherently understood to be the case for Obama. This is what is and will be the case for Obama and I will go further by suggesting that the FEAR and the NEED for a black politician not to be seen as being too “black” or promoting a “black agenda” leads to overcompensation away from a needed black agenda. A white politician is not feared to be secretly plotting the revenge for slavery and Jim Crow. This why Clinton could attend black events during the campaign and Obama was a no show. Again…..this aint rocket science.
quote:
I hold black politicians to a higher standard…..based upon a sample set of how many? Note you used the plural….black politicians. Where is your evidence? You haven’t any. Your sample set of black politicians consist only of Obama your time frame is since he started running for President. Thus, the premise of your dissent cannot even be supported and therefore invalidates and conclusions drawn from that faulty premise.


dance

We've done this dance time and time again and it still comes down to your firm belief that white folks are our salvation. I, refuse to accept that proposition.
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
quote:
I hold black politicians to a higher standard…..based upon a sample set of how many? Note you used the plural….black politicians. Where is your evidence? You haven’t any. Your sample set of black politicians consist only of Obama your time frame is since he started running for President. Thus, the premise of your dissent cannot even be supported and therefore invalidates and conclusions drawn from that faulty premise.


dance

We've done this dance time and time again and it still comes down to your firm belief that white folks are our salvation. I, refuse to accept that proposition.


You are so full of sh1t! Every black person is not a friend of black people and every white person is not an enemy of black people. This is the TRUE firm belief of mine. Hence, just because someone is black or someone is white I do not assume their impact upon the black collective based upon that. I don’t assume that a black man running for president is going to have our back and I don’t assume that a white person running for president it going to attack us from the back. The world of race and politics is much more complex than that simpleton’s assessment. What matter the most is the ELECTORATE and the racial makeup of the electorate being governed. A white person cannot become mayor of Detroit without catering to the interest of black people, who represent the majority racial group of the electorate. A white person cannot become mayor of San Antonio Texas without showing an affinity for the views of Hispanics…..and a black person cannot become president of the United States without catering to the interest and perspectives of white America, the dominant racial demographic voting group in this nation. So when I look to see what type of policies politicians will promote, I look no further than their dominant constituencies that represent the majority rule. I know what white fears are in America. I know a black person governing a predominantly white constituency will have to respect and subdue those fears in order to get and maintain political power. Hence, and in doing so, can often end of overcompensating away from black efforts toward promoting racial equality in order to maintian favor from whites.

You keep trying to diss what white folks think and believe as if it is not relevent. Yet, you are so invested in the political process....which they dominate. That makes no damn sense. What white folks think is shaping what Obama does.
quote:
You are so full of sh1t!


No ... that would be you. Frown

quote:
Every black person is not a friend of black people and every white person is not an enemy of black people.


Show me where I said anything like that. I know that my refusal to consistently and constantly criticize Black folk might look like my calling all Black folks angels and my criticizing white folk as a group might look to you like me saying they are all devils, but that is your faulty bias

To borrow your argumentation: "Thus, the premise of your dissent cannot even be supported and therefore invalidates and conclusions drawn from that faulty premise"

But your consistent saying stuff like "Black folk ain't shit" in favor of your love for white folks [the clintons and that other downtrodden white guy for whom you felt obligated to rescue] ... Don't make me call NS ... belies your love/concern for Black people.

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You keep trying to diss what white folks think and believe as if it is not relevent. Yet, you are so invested in the political process....which they dominate.


I don't care what white people think, say or do, other than to prepare for or react to it to my/our advantage. That is wholly different than your support of them. I support the process not because of my love for white folks; but because it is the only process that we have.
Your argument is so weak it is really not worthy of being dignified with a response. There is so much conjecture and mind reading (my LOVE for Clinton and white folks….even though I consistently stated last year before the election that I personally did not like HC, because of the way she answered a question about reparations). Moreover, I never even thought or assumed that you had hate for white folks. I simply noted that white folks bad, black folks good was too simplistic and not real world reality. That was in response to your claim I held black politicansssss to a higher standard (where are the examples of the black politicians that I have critiqued other than Obama?).

What you fail to understand or accept is that white politicians are bound by the white electorate. Even if a white politician wanted to do more things for black people, their constituency would not allow for it. First of all, they could not be elected if such was vocalized as part of their platform. Secondly, if they were power, they would risk losing that power by attempting to do such. People understand this is why Obama did not do those things while he was campaigning and people need to understand that is why Obama will not do such things while he is president. You keep talking about what white politicians did not do for black people but you are not thinking deeply my brother. Do you think that Tim Wise, the very “pro black “white guy who is always writing articles about white racism and white privilege would ever be elected to govern a state? Hell naw! However, he would have a good chance of being elected in a city like Detroit…..because he says what the people want to hear in the city. You will soon learn that black folks REPRESENTING majority white electorates will not do jack slit for black folks either. I am not holding Obama to a different standard……I am holding him to the same damn expectations and this is why I am not excited about the Negro in the way many other Negroes are. he is still BOUND by the white eledctorate wishes and wants, fears and ignorance. One wrong move racially (or right move from the black perspective) and his reelection chances are jeapordized. Hence, in truth...you are holding white politicians to a different standard. You ignore that their careers can be jeopordized by attempting to do too much for black folks. yet...you recognize that such is the case for black politicans. You need to grow to realize that the focus should be on the ELECTORATEs color and not the color of the politicians. It is the color of the electorate that will determine the color of the policy.
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Your argument is so weak it is really not worthy of being dignified with a response.


Yet you respond Roll Eyes lol

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There is so much conjecture and mind reading (my LOVE for Clinton and white folks….even though I consistently stated last year before the election that I personally did not like HC, because of the way she answered a question about reparations).


Why oh why do people do that ... just flat out lie, as if there is no archive/search feature that would bust their lyin' a$$. sleep

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You will soon learn that black folks REPRESENTING majority white electorates will not do jack slit for black folks either. I am not holding Obama to a different standard……I am holding him to the same damn expectations and this is why I am not excited about the Negro in the way many other Negroes are.


Yet you criticize Obama for doing what you say no one can do BUT get all crickety, i.e., silent/non-critical with white folks. And then you claim to hold the two to the same standard. Roll Eyes That is and has been my point all along. Roll Eyes
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Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
quote:
Your argument is so weak it is really not worthy of being dignified with a response.


Yet you respond Roll Eyes lol

quote:
There is so much conjecture and mind reading (my LOVE for Clinton and white folks….even though I consistently stated last year before the election that I personally did not like HC, because of the way she answered a question about reparations).


Why oh why do people do that ... just flat out lie, as if there is no archive/search feature that would bust their lyin' a$$. sleep

quote:
You will soon learn that black folks REPRESENTING majority white electorates will not do jack slit for black folks either. I am not holding Obama to a different standard……I am holding him to the same damn expectations and this is why I am not excited about the Negro in the way many other Negroes are.


Yet you criticize Obama for doing what you say no one can do BUT get all crickety, i.e., silent/non-critical with white folks. And then you claim to hold the two to the same standard. Roll Eyes That is and has been my point all along. Roll Eyes


Cat...your argument just gets weaker. Obama is the PResident now. He is in the hot seat now. Bush is not President. Why do you want me to focus on white PResidents of the past when OBama is the PResident Now? Have you read me long enough to say that I never critisized Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton and Bush 2? Negroe...you sound crazy.
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
Pattern exposed ... first you deny ... then you dance ... then you act all brand new. Whatever Roll Eyes


No the fact is that you are making up sh1t to formulate a reason for dissent. You claimed that I hold black politicians to a different standard. Well name the black politicians Negro! Go back and search the archives Negro to get this list. I have been a teenager or adult through Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton, Bush 2 and Now Obama. Now, unless you KNOW my opinion of these presidents, while they were president, you are hardly qualified or credible in your claims that I hold black politicians to a different standard. Negro you sound crazy. This is all about your sensitivity to criticism of Obama, the only Negro politician this is really about, despite you pluralizing the term. Yea…..I said Negroes aint sh1t sh1t for the way they threw the Clintons under the bus. You want to hear me say it again Negro? Here it goes……”NEGROES AINT SH!T FOR THEY WAY THEY THREW THE CLINTONS UNDER THE BUSH”!!!! However you want to interpret it……..I am standing by what I said and will gladly say it any time you forget it. Bill Clinton went from being the beloved pseudo first Negro President to a spiteful racist….because he dared compared Obama performance to Jesse Jackson in South Carolina and because he said the media treatment of Obama has been a fairy tale. Meanwhile, Obama goes out ant talks about Negroes feeding their kids fried Chicken for breakfast, calling out black fathers as irresponsible on father day (despite being “Post racial”), he castigates black anger as unproductive and misguided, while labeling white anger as understandable….etc. If things Obama said came from a white person, Negroes would be up in arms and you damn well know it. Yeah…..there is a double standard in that a black politician can say skin head type sh1t, but when a Caucasian uses the racist code words “Fairy tale”, black use that as the pretext to throw full support behind the relatively unknown at that time, black candidate. Obama aint going to do jack slit for the Negro...any more than any of the white Democrats he was running against would have....AND LIKELY LESS.

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