Williams, on 'O'Reilly Factor,' said he was uncomfortable on a plane with people in Muslim garb 




NPR has fired veteran analyst Juan Williams over remarks he made about Muslims on the Fox News Channel program, "The O’Reilly Factor."

The national radio network said in a statement Wednesday that the remarks, in which Williams said he gets nervous flying with people in Muslim garb, were “inconsistent with our editorial standards and practices, and undermined his credibility as a news analyst with NPR.”

Williams’ dismissal followed comments on the Fox News prime time show, where he also serves as an analyst.

During the show, O’Reilly asked Williams to comment on the idea that the United States was facing a “Muslim dilemma.”  It followed a controversy over O’Reilly’s own appearance on the afternoon show, The View,’ where two hosts walked out after he said that “Muslims killed us on 9/11.”

His argument, which moderator Whoopi Goldberg declared to be "bull----," inspired both Goldberg and co-host Joy Behar to leave their own set.

On Monday, Williams said he concurred with O’Reilly about the threats faced by the United States.


He added, "Look, Bill, I'm not a bigot. You know the kind of books I've written about the civil rights movement in this country. But when I get on the plane, I got to tell you, if I see people who are in Muslim garb and I think, you know, they are identifying themselves first and foremost as Muslims, I get worried. I get nervous."


He also said, amid a heated debate with O'Reilly, that people shouldn’t blame Muslims for “extremists,” same as Christians couldn’t be blamed for the Oklahoma City bombing. O'Reilly, for his part, said he refused to qualify everything he said about Muslims.

Criticism and support
In a statement Wednesday, the Council on American-Islamic Relations said such commentary from a journalist about other racial, ethnic or religious minority groups would not be tolerated.

"NPR should address the fact that one of its news analysts seems to believe that all airline passengers who are perceived to be Muslim can legitimately be viewed as security threats," CAIR National Executive Director Nihad Awad said.

NPR, which receives most of its funding from listener-supported member stations, has been uncomfortable for some time with Williams’ role on Fox. After he became a regular on the mostly conservative network, NPR asked that he no longer be identified as an NPR correspondent.

The radio network, in a news story on the site, reported that Williams said he wasn't ready to comment on his dismissal and was conferring with his wife.

Williams was previously a longtime reporter, columnist and editorial writer at The Washington Post. He has written extensively on the Civil Rights movement, including a book on the African American religious experience and a biography on Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall.

Conservative bloggers defended Williams on Thursday, blasting NPR's decision.

"All Juan Williams did is say both exactly how he feels and how many, many other Americans feel on this subject," wrote Erick Erickson on his " Red State" blog. "The man's body of work makes clear he is no bigot. But we sure can't offend Muslims can we?"



Open link for video:


http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/...rtainment/?GT1=43001

Original Post
I do not like Juan Williams. I never have. I met him for the first time back in 1993 and the last time in 2007. He is all about not making white folks uncomfortable, and apologizing for the more activist oriented elements of the African American struggle. I say good riddance to "Uncle" Juan.
Mannnnnn ... honesty is a slippery slope, isn't it??    Tell it, and you can fall straight from grace and into the dog house!! 

I can't believe he was FIRED for stating his personal opinion ... it wasn't like it was an attack .. it's just the way he feels.  It reminds me of President Obama during his campaign when he revealed that his Grandma used to see Black men and clutch her purse or want to walk across the other side of the street.  Everybody wanted to jump on Grannie's case and paint her as a racist ... which, she might have been ... but, I have seen Black men that made me want to walk across to the other side of street, too!!   And for the sake of my safety, it might have been better that I did!!

So far, they have arrested 3 of  "the boy next door"-looking types of Muslims for trying to blow up one building or plane or another.  I don't think it's irrational to be suspicious, worried or nervous about someone who looks like the type of person that could, would and has done that type of catastrophic harm to others!!  Because ... how do you know you're wrong and that you're not about to be the next person to be blown up???  Or that when you walk through that crowd of gangbangers, you're not gonna lose your purse, wallet, or life in the process??  

Reference:
"All Juan Williams did is say both exactly how he feels and how many, many other Americans feel on this subject," wrote Erick Erickson on his " Red State" blog. "The man's body of work makes clear he is no bigot. But we sure can't offend Muslims can we?"

I have to take a walk on my Conservative side and agree with this statement.   I realize that this is an extra-sensitive touchy subject right about now ... but, just like with the Sherrod issue .. I think this was a case of a too-quick-to-judgment, overreaction, and ultimate overboard solution.

It's getting to the point where a person's few words speak louder than their career-long actions.    People need to get a grip.  'Cause if we are forced to take honesty out of conversations ... what are we going to be left with then?? 
I'm only familiar with this guy's name from comments thru the years about him on this website.  From the comments, I've always gotten the sense that he's a conservative, or an appeaser (as Kresge notes).  If so, then NPR was most likely just looking for a reason to dump him.  Not a very classy move whatsoever, IMO.  Jesse Jackson famously said the same thing about young black males.  It's really not a good idea to be firing people for being candid about stuff like this.
Kresge Reference:
I do not like Juan Williams. I never have. I met him for the first time back in 1993 and the last time in 2007. He is all about not making white folks uncomfortable, and apologizing for the more activist oriented elements of the African American struggle. I say good riddance to "Uncle" Juan.
I totally agree with this and have no sympathy for Juan Williams being let go from NPR.  HOw is a black man going to be spewing the same type of sentiment that is used agaist black people to stir up fear?  Juan Williams basically used the Southern Strategy and inserted muslims instead... 


Not to mention the fact that the 9/11 hijackers were dressed in jeans and polo shorts



Not to mention the fact that "Muslim" is a religion and thus he probably meant traditional ARab Dress which is even worse...  How is he to know whether a person in middle eastern looking traditional clothing is actually a muslim? 


I don't believe he got fired for stating his opinion.  He got fired for expressing bigoted views about a significant portion of the american population on the public airwaves and that is unacceptable just as it was with Don Imus and every other klanzman that has something nasty to say about Obama.


A BLACK MAN, the target of the most racial hate ever?, trembling in fear of alleged muslims in "garb" on a plane?  GTFOOH  Juan Williams is not the victim here.  The muslims he smeared on national television are.
http://mediamatters.org/research/200901270002


Juan Williams again baselessly attacked Michelle Obama, claiming "her instinct is to start with this 'blame America' ... stuff" 


January 27, 2009 8:09 am ET

 SUMMARY: On The O'Reilly Factor, Juan Williams again baselessly attacked first lady Michelle Obama, claiming that "her instinct is to start with this 'blame America' ... stuff." Williams asserted that Michelle Obama's "instinct" is to "blame America" or be "the victim," and said she has "this Stokely Carmichael-in-a-designer-dress thing going." Williams also said that she could be a "liabilit[y]" or an "albatross" for President Barack Obama. Williams previously claimed Michelle Obama sometimes uses "this kind of militant anger."


During the January 26 edition of Fox News' The O'Reilly Factor, NPR news analyst and Fox News political contributor Juan Williams again baselessly attacked first lady Michelle Obama, claiming that "her instinct is to start with this 'blame America' ... stuff." Williams asserted that "[i]f you think about liabilities for President [Barack] Obama that are close to him -- [Vice President] Joe Biden's up there -- but Michelle Obama's right there." Williams continued: "[S]he's got this Stokely Carmichael-in-a-designer-dress thing going. If she starts talking, as [Townhall Magazine contributor and Weekly Standard contributing blogger] Mary Katharine [Ham] suggested, her instinct is to start with this 'blame America,' you know, 'I'm the victim.' If that stuff starts to come out, people will go bananas, and she'll go from being the new Jackie O to being something of an albatross."

Williams provided no evidence for the claims that Michelle Obama's "instinct" is to "blame America" or be "the victim," nor did he provide examples of her having "this Stokely Carmichael-in-a-designer-dress thing going." Additionally, Williams did not provide any evidence that she could be a "liabilit[y]" or an "albatross" for Obama. Ham also smeared Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, saying of Michelle Obama: "[S]he's got to not drop sound bites like she did during the campaign that were not helpful to her husband, because, frankly, if you want to be an unpleasant, heavy-handed first lady, you're going to -- well, you'll end up like Hillary Clinton."

As Media Matters for America documented, Williams previously claimed that Michelle Obama sometimes uses "this kind of militant anger." During the August 25, 2008, edition of Fox News' America's Newsroom, referring to Michelle Obama's then-upcoming speech at the Democratic National Convention, Williams claimed: "Well, she's got to be herself, but I do not think she can go for it all out in terms of this kind of militant anger that she sometimes uses, you know. She can be, it seems, rather cynical or dismissive of people," adding, "I don't think she wants to get anywhere near the race issue, anywhere near the militance issue." Williams gave no examples of what he claimed to be "this kind of militant anger" that Michelle Obama "sometimes uses."

The fact he got canned for stating his opinion is bothersome. From personal experience, when someone does get on a plane with a Muslim, or someone who is perceived to be, there is a different feel to the flight.


I remember the last time I flew and there was a passenger in traditional Muslim dress on the flight. Any time he moved to adjust his seat, grab a magazine, adjust his tray, take a deep breath etc, everyone (mostly males) would sit up and watch. Sorry to say, but if that's being a racist and bigot then I'm guilty.

Juan Williams Responds to His Firing From NPR







The person who fired Juan Williams::



Vivian Shiller , President and CEO, NPR






.......And as a result of Juan William's firing, in less than a day:


Juan Williams Expands Fox News Role With New 2 million dollar contract. Will Host Factor Tomorrow.





When one door closes, another door opens. It’s been less than a day since Juan Williams was fired by NPR, yet he’s already signed a new three-year, multi-million-dollar contract with Fox News, one that greatly expands his role there.


His new home at the cable news network is a long way from the publicly broadcast NPR, but FNC Chief Roger Ailes thinks he’ll do fine. Said Ailes, “He’s an honest man whose freedom of speech is protected by Fox News on a daily basis.”

Since Williams’ controversial comments about Muslims on Fox News, the network has taken strides to defend him, and the sheer speed of the re-signing is likely a way to further bolster support for the journalist. The new contract is worth up to two million dollars, which, as the LA Times noted, is a considerably higher salary than NPR doles out.

In a nod to his network’s “Fair and Balanced” slogan, Ailes also spoke on Williams’ journalistic integrity: “Juan has been a staunch defender of liberal viewpoints since his tenure began at Fox News in 1997.” The new contract ensures that Williams will be doing all of his defending exclusively on Fox News, starting now: he’s slated to guest host The O’Reilly Factor tomorrow. He’ll also be appearing with Bill O’Reilly on the program tonight.


http://www.mediaite.com/tv/juan-williams-expands-fox-news-role-with-new-contract-will-host-factor-tomorrow/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+mediaite%2FClHj+(Mediaite)

Reference:
I remember the last time I flew and there was a passenger in traditional Muslim dress on the flight. Any time he moved to adjust his seat, grab a magazine, adjust his tray, take a deep breath etc, everyone (mostly males) would sit up and watch. Sorry to say, but if that's being a racist and bigot then I'm guilty.

I think what it shows is that you can't be honest and "politically correct" at the same time!!!

Ya gotta pick one ... and only one ... at a time!! 
Catch Reference:
The fact he got canned for stating his opinion is bothersome. From personal experience, when someone does get on a plane with a Muslim, or someone who is perceived to be, there is a different feel to the flight. I remember the last time I flew and there was a passenger in traditional Muslim dress on the flight. Any time he moved to adjust his seat, grab a magazine, adjust his tray, take a deep breath etc, everyone (mostly males) would sit up and watch. Sorry to say, but if that's being a racist and bigot then I'm guilty.
Catch, I disagree that he got fired for "stating his opinion".  He got fired for uttering bigoted and irrational muslim fearmongering while trying to ingratiate himself with the likes of BILL O'REILLY on FOX NEWS in his role as "token liberal/token black" panel discussion guest.  Remember that he was agreeing with Bill Oreilly, who was defending himself and his contentious appearance on the view where he fearmongered about muslims wanting to kill us - the episode where Joy Behar and Whoopi Goldberg walked off.   Juan Williams was trying to reassure Bill O'Reilly that his anti-muslim sentiments were ok since he too has irrational fears about "muslim garb" and people who "identify themselves as muslims first and foremost". 


Aside from the fact that this is fear-mongering on national tv/public airwaves, why would Juan, as an African-AMerican male be NOT sensitive to the same type of Willie Horton/Southern strategy speak that is often employed against Blacks?  In fact, Fox news and radio hosts continue to describe black americans as wanting to take what "americans" have, being lazy, being dependent on the government, yada yada yada all day long every day in coded language.  How could Juan engage in such?  and think it was ok?


  Re: Muslim Garb, what exactly does he mean by "muslim garb"?  Given that there are over a billion Muslims on the planet and they can be black, white, asian, and yes arab it just makes no sense.  Did he mean traditional "arab" attire? Is it ok to associate people who wear traditional garb as TERRORISTS?  Further, why shouldn't muslims "Identify as muslims first and foremost?"  How should they dress and identify themselves to put Juan Williams at ease?  Does he not realize that others clutch their pearls at his own presence?


And again, Juan referenced "Muslim Garb" in connection with 9/11.  We've seen the photos of the 19 hijackers repeatedly in the 9 years since the incident.  We've also seen photos of the shoebomber, the underwear bomber, and the times square bomber.   Not one of them was wearing "Muslim Garb" (I assume Juan means flowing robes and middle eastern head-dress or turbans possibly).  What were they wearing? Western style casual pants and shirts.   What is Juan talking about? 



I could see why NPR would not want Fox-News style anti-muslim fearmongering associated with their brand.
  Well...it seems this brotha is now hosting Fox news sitting in for O'Reilly.  So.....maybe just maybe in some sly under the radar way....he was actually doing a job interview for Fox.  Well you can laugh....but!  It worked.  He is now working for Fox making 2 million dollars a year.  Not bad...for a brotha who's afraid/frightened/terrified  of a certain style of clothing....but!  I'm just sayin
The firing was a matter of Uncle Juan refusing to function according to the journalistic standards of NPR. That he was to refrain from slanderous, libelous, and prejudice remarks was expressly stated in his contract. Moreover, Williams had been warned on numerous occasions about similar comments. Unfortunately, media has been inundated by ideologues who could not recognize journalistic integrity if it bit them in the ass, that most of the populist do not believe it is something to even aspire.

Finally, we always have to remember with respect to freedom of speech that there is a difference between censoring and censuring. Juan was not censor, and thus I do not believe that his rights were in anyway violated.
Reference:
So are y'all saying that it's NOT true that a lot of people today have a heightened sense of "nervousness" about and around Muslims/Middle Eastern-looking people than they did before 9/11?
That is no what I am saying. Moreover, as a matter of reportage of a current state of affairs, that is within the preview of journalism. That, however, is not what Juan did. Juan -unreflectively-expressed a bias which calls into question his ability to be function "objectively" or credibly on stories about people of Muslim or Arab extraction.

E.g., would you trust a white female reporter who stated that whenever she is alone on an elevator and a black male enters, she clutches her purse to herself a little tighter and exists ASAP to do a report on racial bias in the workplace.

Finally, I have a real problem with black folk acting like this for another reason. A lot of us  are just a kufi or kafiya away from being presumed a terrorist suspect at a moments notice. Why would we then judge (prejudge) someone based on the clothes they are wearing.
From what it seems to me, the guy revealed something in a moment of frankness that a lot of people feel.  I can't say that the same thought doesn't hit me, for a brief moment at least, when I see middle easterners on a plane.  It's not right, but it does happen, and I don't see that Juan Williams said anything more controversial than that.  The fact that he is a journalist (IF he is; is he a journalist or a commentator?) doesn't change the fact that he's a human being.  Certain reactions are hard not to have.  I'm not getting from his statement that he's proud to feel that way, or even believes it's right to feel that way. 

NPR, for very little valid reason, has handed Fox News a gift; they'll milk this for all they can.  And this close to midterm elections during a depression (and at a critical period of crossroads in this country's history), what a wonderful time for a left wing news agency to actually cast itself as intolerant & fascistic.  Just what America needed, another excuse to embrace the right.  Stupid!
Reference:
The fact that he is a journalist (IF he is; is he a journalist or a commentator?) doesn't change the fact that he's a human being.  Certain reactions are hard not to have.  I'm not getting from his statement that he's proud to feel that way, or even believes it's right to feel that way.  NPR, for very little valid reason, has handed Fox News a gift; they'll milk this for all they can.  And this close to midterm elections during a depression (and at a critical period of crossroads in this country's history), what a wonderful time for a left wing news agency to actually cast itself as intolerant & fascistic.  Just what America needed, another excuse to embrace the right.  Stupid!

Your commentary is correct. I saw Juan hosting the O’Reilly show. A friend of mine called and told me to watch it. I wish I hadn’t. I had a measured amount of respect for Juan up until then. Did not always agree with him but I did not hold him with the disdain others may have. But after seeing that pathetic whining and shameless display of victimization and grandstanding, I had to dismiss him. He used more than half the program as a forum to bleat his, “look what they did to me”,  theatrics and melodrama. Then he went to use the other half to rant and rail against NPR in general. It was nauseating. 

I did not agree with NPR for firing him. I thought it was an unwarranted knee jerk reaction. I also shared his sentiments about Muslims in traditional gear getting on a plane. While his fear may be unfair based on a Muslims clothing, the fear is not irrational nor illogical. I think an overwhelming number of Americans would psychologically react as he stated he would. But even though the consensus of his reaction is a reality -it is politically incorrect to express such feelings. 

The reaction of NPR is typical of liberals. They must enforce censorship, firing of the offender and dismissal of the transgressor of political correctness. Conservatives are reactionary also, but they tend to have thicker skins and will allow (generally) offenders to continue without loss of employment. Liberals will not allow the said offender to retain their position. That’s just the way it is…..

It strikes me as odd that there are black people who are basically ok with what Juan did which is comfort the bigot O'Reilly by reassuring him that those scary muslims bother him too.  HOw can Black people excuse his behavior given that it's THE VERY SAME BEHAVIOR often employed to stir up fear about Blacks?  If you are Black, you should understand the pernicious evil of spreading fear about minority groups based on their appearance, shouldn't you? 


NPR was not in the wrong.  They have integrity.  Juan Williams should have kept his personal prejudice to himself.


I'm not understanding how NPR is in the wrong for disassociating themselves from Juan's bigoted and stupid bleatings on national airwaves...


HOw can it be ok for a Black person to participate propagandizing another minority into a group of scary evil dark OTHERS?  On the news no less?


Juan played the ultimate uncle tom house negro by casting his lot with The Boss Man who associates a person's wardrobe with terrorism and fears all dark skinned people.


Had this been a white man saying he fears groups of black men in airplanes and complained that they identify themselves first and formost as black ALL HELL would have broken loose and Jesse, Al, Michael Erik Dyson, Tavis Smiley, and Cornell West would have been dispatched.
The behavior exist regardless of color, class, status or whatever. If I see a "good ole boy" drive by in a pickup truck complete with gun rack, hunting dog and old dixie, I will pause for a moment to make sure my peaceful day will continue as such. 
Sounds like some people are saying he should lie about who and what he fears just for the sake of maintaining his blackcard.
Catch Reference:
Sounds like some people are saying he should lie about who and what he fears just for the sake of maintaining his blackcard.
For my part it's not about any so-called "black card".  It's about doing the right thing and having ethical and professional standards.  In social services, I work with the public.  I encounter people from all walks of life in all types of situations.  I still have to treat each one in an unbiased manner (not based on personal opinion) regardless of whether they are white, hispanic, native american, african, male, female, ex-convicts, alleged-child abusers, drug addicts, etc.


Is it really that difficult to see that Juan Williams did to Muslims what has been done to Black people for 400 years?  How is this any different than whites complaining about the presence of blacks because they just want to rape precious white virginal women?  Or calling blacks lazy (while failing to hire them) and saying mexicans really work hard and do jobs nobody wants to do?  How it is any different than the dog-whistling comments uttered by Sarah Palin and Hillary Clinton that had blacks seething at the lynch mob mentality of their rallies?  Or the commentary of Glenn Beck/Bill O'relly/Sean Hannity which motivates people to try stupid things like kill abortion doctors and fly planes into IRS buildings?


All people including Juan Williams have fears, prejudices and opinions.  Most individuals either keep it to themselves or discuss it amongst friends and relatives.  Most individuals don't have the opportunity to spread their biased opinions about a group to the public via the airwaves. News reporters especially have a responsibility to refrain from BIAS against groups since their comments can influence an entire nation.   Just like it's not ok for media types to create the impression that most crime is the fault of blacks based on the actions of a fraction of blacks, it's not ok to create the impression that muslims are terrorists based on the actions of 19 saudi hijackers wearing slacks and knit shirts. 


As evidenced by various comment sections on various black websites a lot of us are ok with these comments about Muslims on the airwaves.  So, a lot of us shouldn't have any problem the commentary of Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, and Bill O'Reilly.  We shouldn't have any problem with teachers directing ignorant comments toward our Black children in the classroom, Nor our doctors making sterotypical comments during physical exams, Nor our bosses making bigoted comments about Blacks in the Workplace.  These people shouldn't have to lie about who they are and what they fear afterall.
NS, Juan Williams said that 1) he has those feelings when he sees Muslims on a plane, and 2) that he's wrong for having them.  It's the same thing Jesse jackson famously said about young black males (which means that in the hypothetical you described, Jesse would have to back out).  You have automatic thoughts (and frankly, Juan is better than I am, because I tend to have those thoughts on airplanes regardless of what the middle easterner is wearing).  You then stop and think, "That's not right."  To me, there's a tremendous difference between honestly acknowledging the presence of the thoughts vs. actually defending them as right.  Juan didn't do the latter.  Acknowledging an automatic thought is not the same thing as "spreading a biased opinion."  An automatic thought of the kind he was expressing really doesn't even rise to the level of opinion, because it's something that happens, but it's not something you necessarily hold onto. 

And black people have EVERY right to have these kinds of thoughts.  OCatchings gave a perfect example, the redneck good ol' boy in the pickup truck.  Jesse Jackson's admission was another one.  This automatic process does not just evolve out of our makeup just because we've been discriminated against.  And again, there's a big difference between expressing them honestly and expressing them proudly.  If you express them honestly, but acknowledge that it's wrong, then you're not doing anything to justify other people holding them.
NPR President Apologizes For Handling Of Juan Williams Firing.



NPR President Vivian Schiller apologized on Sunday for the network's handling of the Juan Williams controversy.

In a statement which was released Sunday, and was first seen by Politico, Schiller stood by the decision to fire Williams for his comments about Muslims on Fox News. But she apologized for NPR's hasty response to the controversy surrounding his remarks:

"I regret that we did not take the time to prepare our program partners and provide you with the tools to cope with the fallout from this episode...the process that followed the decision was unfortunate - including not meeting with Juan Williams in person - and I take full responsibility for that."

Schiller also wrote, however, that the decision the network took was the right one. Reiterating a statement she released last Thursday, she called Williams' comments "the latest in a series of deeply troubling incidents over several years," and said that he had been repeatedly asked to "avoid expressing strong personal opinions on controversial subjects in public settings...after this latest incident, we felt compelled to act."

The controversy surrounding Williams' firing has continued through the weekend. On Sunday, Williams appeared on "Fox News Sunday" and again blasted NPR for its decision. Fellow panelist Brit Hume also slammed the network, saying it did not support Williams because he was a "Bill Cosby liberal."



Comment by Brit Hume: "It's a howling double standard. The standard that was applied to Juan Williams is manifesting not being applied to other NPR people....in the culture of NPR, appearing on Fox is a sin. And in the culture of NPR for an African- American man like Juan, regardless of his extraordinary stature, to be there and be kind of a Bill Cosby liberal, not a down-the-line liberal, is a sin as well."

Open link below for Juan William's comment about his firing on "Fox News Sunday".



http://www.theatlanticwire.com...on-NPR-Is-a-Sin-5513







http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...gizes-_n_773286.html

@ kresge ... I think I understand what you are trying to say.  You know nobody else confuses me quite the way you do!! 

But here's the thing .....
Reference:
E.g., would you trust a white female reporter who stated that whenever she is alone on an elevator and a black male enters, she clutches her purse to herself a little tighter and exists ASAP to do a report on racial bias in the workplace.

I remember a while back I declared/admitted/pronounced myself to be a racist.  I mean ... by (dictionary) definition, I 'fit the profile'.   I DO believe that Black people are superior to White people, in a number of areas.  That's just how I feel about it.  And I have no problem saying it - out loud!! I will not apologize for it.  And until somebody proves me wrong, I will continue to believe I'm right!!

I also think that there are some things that White people are better at.  Some things that Asians do better than Black OR White folks!  There's a few things Hispanics do best.  I think we all have our strengths and weaknesses.  But .. are Black people 'better than' White people??  Yes, I think so!!

Now ... several other members told me that I WASN'T a racist.  That I couldn't be ... 'cause I didn't even fit the criteria.  I don't know if they were trying to save/defend or correct me … or if that was just their opinion.  If so, I  appreciate it, but I would still have to respectfully disagree. 

 The thing is … if I am a racist ... I have to also acknowledge that racists are generally some horrible, despicable people!!    I have said some really BAD things about many a  racist on a daily basis here on this board for YEARS now!!  And I don't take back any of it.  As you know, I am one to say what I mean, and mean what I say.

No doubt some people have said the same about me, if not worse .. and I suppose I would have to deserve it!!  I mean ... I don't think I'm a bad person.    But ... the truth speaks for itself.  If ALL racists are assholes ... then .. again, I guess I fit that profile!!  However ... I'm from the school of thought that says, 'it's not what you do, but how you do it'.  Or, 'it's not what you say, but how you say it'.

Juan Williams expressed what MILLIONS of other people also believe ... but would never be honest enough to admit.  Why?  For fear of being castigated the way Juan has been.  He's been made an "example" that it's better to keep quiet, save face and keep your reputation in tact than it is to simply be honest, put the truth out there and deal with for what it is . 

 I do not think, considering the circumstances, that it is in any way "irrational" to consider that the next terrorist attack might come from a Muslim .. especially one of Middle Eastern descent.  After all … regardless of WHAT they were wearing ALL of the 9/11 hijackers were Arab/Middle Eastern and Muslim.  Up until now, the majority of successive would-be terrorists have been Arab/Middle Eastern and Muslim.  And even those that WERE NOT Arab/Middle Eastern ... were STILL Muslim.

 Now, "irrational" to me would be to have fear that the Chinese, Buddhist man sitting next to you has on a bomb vest .. and not the Arab Muslim on the other side, reciting from the Book of Jihad .. simply because it would be 'politically incorrect' to look sideways at him for fear of being deemed a bigot!!  THAT's irrational.  That Army doctor that shot up Fort Hood?  There were plenty of reasons not to be 'suspicious' of him simply because he was Arab and a Muslim.  But, maybe if somebody had been … 13 innocent soldiers and civilians might still be alive today.

I have much more respect for somebody who might be a bigot ... or a racist ... and is honest enough to come out and admit it than I do for somebody who stands behind "correctness" and points the finger at other people, when they, themselves, are not perfect .. and have similar "problems", too.  I don't particularly care for Juan Williams professionally .. but, I don't think he did/said anything worth being fired for.

 

In fact, if you listen to the whole of the interview, he himself said it wasn't right to condemn an entire group of people for the negative actions of a few.

In regards to the White reporter ... if she stepped off that elevator and went to report that she had found that White people had no such prejudices or "irrational" fears against Black people ... that certainly SHE didn't have any such biases ... then yeah, I think I'd have a problem with her!!  But, if she reported HONESTLY .. and stated that White people are overwhelmingly fearful of Black men ... that most of them did not trust that the Black man was not going to beat them up and take their purse ... just based on LOOKS alone .. then yeah, I could respect her reporting, and find her credible.

 

Again … I don't think it's what you do, as much as how you do it.

First off, let me say I've never cared for, liked or cared for (lol), Juan Williams.  I remember him from his days (at the Washington Post?) when he appeared on BET's Lead Story or some-such.  He, like Armstrong Williams, was the light-weight, laughing-stock, out-lier among the regular, "mainstream" guests who discussed national/Black politics.  (Ironically, that's pretty much his role among the Brit Hume panel.)  He never appeared to be a serious thinker then and damn sure doesn't come across as one now.  

Williams' recent/fateful appearance on O'Reilly reminds me of the coon-ing he did after O'Reilly stuck his big bigot's foot in his mouth talking about Sylvia's.  And, speaking of Brit Hume, even if I was to ignore Williams' bandwagoning Bill Cosby's tough-loveisms, I lost all/any respect I could ever had for him when he sat there and 'suffered' through the dismissive putdown Hume laid down on him during one of their Sunday morning debates, "Juan, somebody needs to hose you down..."

Anyway... my reaction to this NPR/Fox/Williams issue (as posted elsewhere):

Re: Juan Williams “admitting” his bias, while I admittedly haven’t seen the full clip (though I’ve read the transcript), it seems pretty clear to me that Williams put the heaviest of emphasis on providing a rationale to justify O’Reilly’s bigotry or render it as not-so-problematic.

To me, Williams “admission”, along with what functioned as a non-apology-apology or otherwise weak or compromised disclaimer ('there are good Muslims') from my reading of the transcript, was rendered DOA by the force with which he made his initial points up to and including the dead-giveaway, “I’m not a bigot… [BUT]” statement.

When Williams started out making the point that “political correctness can lead to some kind of paralysis where you don’t address reality”, it was clear that the main and strongest point he wanted to get across was the one he relayed when he referenced the Times Square bomber:

“… when the Times Square bomber was at court, I think this was just last week. He said the war with Muslims, America’s war is just beginning, first drop of blood. I don’t think there’s any way to get away from these facts.

Ironically, Williams follows this up with Bush’s statement(s) about the war on terrorism/Iraq was not a war on Islam. It’s the typical mindset (doublespeak, in this case) among so-called journalists who try to camouflage their actual abhorrent views or soften the landing for them by merely mouthing/writing something to (counter)balance their initial/main statement. It’s clear the premise of Williams’ remarks and, indeed, his thesis statement, per se, was that “there’s [no] way to get away from these facts” — “these facts” being something a whole lot closer to what his pal O’Reilly conveyed on The View vs. the polite-company, PC version of things that would meet Barabara Walters’ approval (did somebody… *ahem* Williams… say something about PC?).

As far as NPR firing Williams, frankly, I have no dog in that fight.


 

TRANSCRIPT of O'Reilly show:
http://thinkprogress.org/2010/...fires-juan-williams/

LINK to video from Fox News Sunday:
http://crooksandliars.com/2005...e-brit-hume-hosedown

 
Juan appeared on NPR's Diane Rehm Show on 10/26/10 and continued to defend his statement and could not see anything inappropriate about what he said.    I thought this post from a commenter said it pretty well


"a talk-show host, just like Bill O'Reilly -- they do not hold themselves out to be journalists, as Juan Williams does. Journalists ARE held to higher standards for a reason -- to maintain the integrity of truth. Personal biases are conflicts of interest for a reporter and should have no place in their public lives. Obviously, as human beings, they may succumb privately to biases, but a good reporter would never voice them out loud in a public forum."



http://thedianerehmshow.org/sh...-10-26/juan-williams  

Due to the fact that Juan Williams got the hook up; a permanent and high paying gig at Fox News immediately after he was fired by NPR  IMO, is the reason why he won't apologize to an entire nation of American Muslims that he defamed with a broad brush.



NPR has rules regulations and standards, no different than Fox News or any other business and over time, he continually violated those rules and based on his last violation, he was fired.


If he had not been immediately hired and supported by Fox News and the Republicans (who now want to eliminate federal funding to NPR because it's a liberal radio station, no suprise there) and remained on a part time paycheck basis by Fox News as a political analyst after being fired by NPR, he would be kneeling at the feet of Muslims begging for forgiveness since his various streams of revenue would be lost; he would be somewhat blackballed and his only full time occupation with pay would be his job at the Washington Post and his future book writings.


In this extremely negative atmosphere where the entire Muslim community, here in America and around the world, when the day before 911, Muslims were nowhere on the radar screen and an afterthought, are now "in the box" as the #1 (or #2 behind us) negative race in American life & politics because of 911.


You don't put an entire race on blast nationally because the term "in Muslim garb" is the problem here and that negative depiction throught the mind of Mr. Williams, goes well beyond the airliner that he frequently rides on with Muslim passengers who are either in their garb clothing or not:.....the same can be said and felt about their garb on the streets, in the grocery store, waiting in line etc and the same can be said by Muslims about Blacks and Whites (if someone would ask them) because we probably make them feel nervous on planes and others places also because of all the negativity and oppressive ways that they have been treated for the past 10 years and with the horrid history of America with Native Americans, slavery (in which Mr. Williams has written about), wars with Mexican Hispanics in order to dominate and acquire western land in the 1930's/40's and all the horrors of post slavery oppression, KKK and Jim Crow, Aryan nation. militia groups and the now political and racial hate fest that being inflamed (under the guise of "politics") by Republicans since President Obama's occupation of the White House should indicate to Mr. Williams that 9 Muslim men and the Al Qaeda network that planned & supported their hi-jacking of those airliners and flying them into the twin towers, no matter how pissed many Americans are, in no way, shape or form allows him to continue to stand stubbondly firm, steadfast and justify denouncing an entire race of people and their religion since the onus of your support and continued justification lies in the bosum of your now new employer, Fox News and it's Republican base.


Especially when the very people who hired you and gave you more money that you have ever earned in your life and their supporting ilk won't denounce their past, present and future purposed actions and trangression against your Black ilk.


Some advice Mr. Juan Williams: Don't become Mr. Armstong Williams. or Dr. Alan Keyes. because you seem to be headed down the same exact road. The Republicans always filled their quota for "the one (and only one at a time) that they seek out & need". And Juan, when they have those "selection" meetings, they don't invite you.....and in this case and for their amusement, you were unanimously selected.


They systematically pimped both of them (for mere pennies on the dollar) and promply placed them in file 13 once their usefulness was over and if you're not careful Juan, they will promply pimp you too. "History" is bound to repeat itself.



Insert Tiger Woods.....


Dance, n*gger, dance!
Reference:
He is all about not making white folks uncomfortable, and apologizing for the more activist oriented elements of the African American struggle. I say good riddance to "Uncle" Juan.

I agree.  For one, as a journalist he should be professionally bound from stating an outright personal opinion.  Doesn't appear that this information was brow beaten out of him.  Of course, any American has a right to their own opinion, but once you put yourself out there as journalist, a credible, unbiased interpretation of the news and topics is all you should be expressing.

It probably was done on his part to get the exact reaction (and promotion) that he is now getting; you know, how recent history was consistently showing how standing on a soapbox making vile statements against Black people, and now, Mexican immigrants, automatically get a person a bump.

Personally, I have no sympathy whatsoever for houseniggers and Black people that live in a fantasy world about who they are.
ER, he smared an entire race of people (with a broad brush) and their entire religion based on his own personal discomfort with the terrorists acts and deeds of a few extremists who caused 911..does he feel the same way about the Muslim man or woman in garb on the street, in restaurants, at the grocery store etc or is it just on airplanes?.. Somebody needs to ask Mr. Numb Nuts that question.


Does the Muslim man or woman,  who owns and operates the local corner grocer or convenience store in the neighborhood that is regularly frequents by non-Muslims for gas, lotto tickets,candy bars, potato chips,  those 2 for a dollar hot dogs and late night groceries deserve that scathing comment?....or the Muslin housewife or businessman working to accomodate yours and mine, demanding daily needs based on our hectic busy schedules while minding his or her daily professional or personal business?..They also, when they are not in "American casual clothes" as a choice that they individually perfer, wear their home grown version of "blue jeans, T-shirts & sneakers"... traditional Muslim garb because that's their unique traditional and generational way of dress.



One of our biggest problems as Americans is........we are so isolated by choice and too damn judgemental and critical to everything around us....and we are really scared.


We bitch and complain about any and everything and don't do shyt to fix anything....we don't want Hispanic people who live here legally (and illegally) to not speak spanish...only english yet, we are so behind acdemically as an American nation in this world in regards to language (since we don't make it a priority) while other countries around the world ensure that their people speak, generally and specifically, several languages which in turn makes them more viable, multi-lingual, more well rounded and allows them the option to branch out and find employment almost anywhere in the free world outside of of their homeland and in the US since the spanish language covers vast mounts of this entire world while Amercians just sit and spin in their lack of language skills/opportunities while those who are multi-faceted come here and take those jobs and open businesses...and all we do is bitch and complain....but will we protest and boycott a Mexican restaurant since the majority of them (including your owner, waiter or waitresses who speaks no english at all?).....what about the Chinese and their resturants?.  the Koreans?...the same exact thing......no we don't/won't and you want to know why? Because THEY SERVE US AND THAT'S WHAT WE, AS A NATION, ONLY CARE ABOUT..BEING SERVED, BEING CATERED TOO, KISSING OUR FAT ASSES AND LOOKED UPON AS THE GREATEST NATION, THE SUPERPOWER......it's no problem while we are stuffing our faces with "Hispanic or Asian food"..too goddam full and happy stuffing our faces and gettin' drunk at the bar or the dinner table to complain & protest about "them".....it's total bullshyt.........we need to get over the idea that everyone in the world wants to come here: live iike us, be like us, act like us here in the US and experience the "American dream"...not true....not true at all.


I don't know where that second paragraph about Hispanics, Asians and restaurants came from and what in the hell it has to do with the overall subject but!.........Negro needs to just STFU and apologize!!!
Unfortunately, I'm on the run and can't sit down right now and really answer this like I want ... but I will be back!! 

However ... l"m sorry, but ... I'm just not getting all that from this situation!!!

As a nutshell, abbreviated, paraphrase of what was said .... the man simply stated that people dressed like Muslims make him nervous.

To me, that's not anywhere NEAR the kind of rabid hate and prejudice "smearing" that went on against Muslims regarding that mosque being built in New York.  What was said and down around that was pure bigotry, ignorance and intolerance.  Muslims were decried as being everything from un-American, to inhuman, to something that had to do with the devil. 

Now to me ... THAT is "smearing" a whole race of people.  What Juan Williams did doesn't even come CLOSE to that!

But ... I'ma hold that thought, and I'll be back! 
Quote from ER: "But ... I'ma hold that thought, and I'll be back!  "


For your consideration:.....


1) Having a conservation about this subject among you and close friends and/or associates (no Muslims present) and you make the comment:


"But when I get on the plane, I got to tell you, if I see people who are in Muslim garb and I think, you know, they are identifying themselves first and foremost as Muslims, I get worried. I get nervous"




2) Now let's add one or two Muslim friends/work/personal associates among your personal mix of those same people with the same conservation with the exact same comments.



3) Let's go a little further and you are giving a prepared speech (littered with many of your own personal thoughts) among a mixed audience of several races of people (Muslims included) and within your written text, you make the exact same comments or after speech during the Q & A session, you're asked your opinion on the matter and you make the exact same comments.



OR finally.....


3) You are in the exact same place and situation as Juan Williams, on Fox News as a part-time political contributor, fully employed by NPR, working there for 10+ years, knowing their rules and regulations and your "negative but acceptable, yet warned many times over by NPR," track record with them, debating Bill O'Reilly, and in your explanation to a nationwide audience, you make the exact same comments and the aftermath (it's now worldwide among the Muslim world community) is the same.


4 different scenerios, increasely larger and a more mixed and diversed audiences, the exact same comments regarding your personal feelings. 


As the audience gets larger, more diverse amd more impersonal (having no connection or personal reflecion to you), does your comments come off the same regarding each scenerio or is there a difference or change among each scenerio, as a group of people, regarding your personal opinions and viewpoint?
Reference:
As the audience gets larger, more diverse amd more impersonal (having no connection or personal reflecion to you), does your comments come off the same regarding each scenerio or is there a difference or change among each scenerio, as a group of people, regarding your personal opinions and viewpoint?

Okay, Cholly ... I will give you this much:  I do understand that, coupled with what seeming are his MANY other offenses at NPR .. I can accept his firing as kind of a "last straw" deal ... they had enough, and (with the help of a public firestorm) this was a great opportunity to finally get him gone!!!

I'm wit that!!    I never liked him much, myself ... I can certainly understand others being disgusted with him as well!!  If that's what this was ... I have no problem with that whatsoever!!

You made a really good point in your commentary above.  But ... let's do this here:

"But when I walk down a street in the 'hood, I got to tell you, if I see Black men who are dressed like thugs and I think, you know, they are identifying themselves first and foremost as thugs, I get worried. I get nervous"

Now ... I know a WHOLE LOT of Black people who 1) would never say this out loud; and 2) would never admit that they have ever in their lives felt this way ... but, if they could or would be honest and tell the truth - both to themselves and whoever it is they may be talking to - they would actually be able to do both.

Because the truth is, if you've EVER walked down an unfamiliar street in the 'hood, with Black men dressed like thugs on either side of the street, you BETTER be nervous and conscious of your surroundings ... 'cause your ass might not make it back out in the same condition you went in!! 

Every Black man is NOT your brother (not brotha .. but brother) ... and the really funny part is that as badly White people are castigated for "clutching their purse" when they see a Black man .. the TRUTH is, it's other BLACK people that need to be the most afraid!!  'Cause they they are the ones that such "thugs" prey on .. their own kind ... much more than they attack the random White person on the streets!!

Black people beat, rob, kill, shoot, other Black people EVERY DAY!!  Yet we want to be offended when somebody says that out loud as if there's no truth to it.    But it's very, very, very true!!  And anybody who can't admit that  ... who wants to cower and hide behind "correctness" and act like no Black man has ever knocked somebody upside the head for their purse or wallet ... beat an old senior citizen senseless before carjacking their car ... walked up and shot an innocent man or woman in the head for "street cred" ... shot innocent children while they played or even slept, shooting into a house for no damn reason at all .. are in denial and living in some kind of freakin' fantasy world, out of touch with reality.

I am not Juan Williams .. and, as far as I know, only y'all (and the Feds) are listening to me right now!!    But ... let me put it out there, LOUD AND CLEAR ... yes, Black-thug-looking men make me nervous!!  I don't even WANT to fly anymore ... 'cause 3 hours locked on a plane with Middle Eastern/Muslim-looking people would make my ass a nervous wreck!!!   If I can't get there by car or boat, I'M NOT GOIN'!!!

There.  I said it!!    And no, I am NOT irrational ... I am NOT a bigot (at least not against Muslims) .. I think I'm the only one I know who supports their right to open up that mosque in NY!!  I ain't mad at most Muslims ... But I do not like the ones who are killing and trying to blow up and shoot innocent people all over the world.  I don't know who they are ... but they could be anybody.  They have been "anybodys".

The overwhelming majority of Muslims both here and abroad are NOT terrorists and are not going to harm anyone or anything.  I'm sure I can make it from here to Cali on a Southwest flight without incident.  I don't think that the gas station owner where I get my gas is going to blow up me, himself, not his gas station!!  I don't have many (any?) Middle Eastern "friends" that I can think of ... but my (new) primary care physician is one (and sometimes I think she may be trying to kill me .. but, I'm still here, so I guess she's cool! ).

I have no hate in my heart for Muslims/Middle Eastern people.  But ... I agree with what Juan Williams said.  I don't like him.  I couldn't care less what happens to him.  But ... I believe what he said was honest and the truth for a lot of people (who simply won't admit it).  there's also a lot of people who simply don't feel that same way.  They ain't "scurred"!!    And don't think twice about terrorism and/or Muslims.  If they happen to be on the subway when it blows .. oh well, so be it!!.  But .. a whole lot of other people DO.  They feel what Juan Williams said.  And they aren't crazy, bigots or bad people.

I think Juan has other issues, though.  But for me .. this just wasn't one of them.
But I gotta tell you, when I am walking down the street, in the grocery store, at school, at work, at the mall, etc., when I see white men dressed in a plaid shirt, a baseball cap and blue jeans, and drives around in a big truck with a confederate flag on it,  and I think, you know, that they are identifying themselves first and foremost with being a racist and a member of the KKK, I get worried, I get nervous.
Ebony Reference:
You made a really good point in your commentary above. But ... let's do this here:


"But when I walk down a street in the 'hood, I got to tell you, if I see Black men who are dressed like thugs and I think, you know, they are identifying themselves first and foremost as thugs, I get worried. I get nervous"


Now ... I know a WHOLE LOT of Black people who 1) would never say this out loud; and 2) would never admit that they have ever in their lives felt this way ... but, if they could or would be honest and tell the truth - both to themselves and whoever it is they may be talking to - they would actually be able to do both.

But the above is not a parallel comparison.  Juan said muslims who identify first and foremost as MUSLIMS worry him.  For the above statement to be substituted it would have to be that the black men dressed in their thug "garb" identify first and foremost as BLACK MEN.  Also,
this scenario isn't parallel because the thugs had to be put in the hood to make them seem menacing, whereas Juan's Muslim boogeymen are at the airport.  It's a totally different scenario. 


Even if you put "white men" in KKK garb the comparison would not work because ALL members of KKK have a particular, harmful agenda but ALL Muslims cannot be said to have an agenda of blowing up sh!t all the time,


especially those who are wearing some type of "Garb" which would get them instantly noticed and therefore unable to blend in with the rest of the population as the 9/11 hijackers, time square bomber, underwear bomber, and shoe bomber did.
Reference:
But I gotta tell you, when I am walking down the street, in the grocery store, at school, at work, at the mall, etc., when I see white men dressed in a plaid shirt, a baseball cap and blue jeans, and drives around in a big truck with a confederate flag on it, and I think, you know, that they are identifying themselves first and foremost with being a racist and a member of the KKK, I get worried, I get nervous.

As well you should. 

I can't even imagine what it's like to live somewhere where that actually happens.
Reference:
As well you should. I can't even imagine what it's like to live somewhere where that actually happens.

ER, I was being sarcatic re Juan's statement.


But if I have to give an honest opinion about seeing Muslims in full garb, etc., I do beleive that the likelyhood that they are terrorists is about equal to likelyhood that some crazy white guy is going to blow something up in America or wants to hurt or kill me/Black people out of racism. 


I personally do not fear racist white people in America, I do not necessarily trust them to not do or try to harm me/Black people in some way, given the opportunity under the right circumstances. 


And I know that African Americans while not being a specific targets of international terrorists, are considered expendible by them, but I still think the likelyhood that I/Black people in America being harmed by either, the crazy white guy is the more likely suspect.
Well, I gotta tell ya, sunnubian .... the one and only time I've ever seen a confederate flag up close and personal was IN Georgia on a trip I took to Atlanta once!!    So, I thought you were serious! LOL 

It was while I was on the highway going into the city, and it went across the length of the back window of a pickup truck .. and I really had to adjust my eyes to make sure that's really what I was looking at!!  But it WAS just that!!  My mouth just flew open!!  And I was like    for real!!

And, yes ... the truck was being driven by this big, fat, White Bubba-lookin' guy!  LOL   I had only been in the South maybe 5 years by then and I was still learning the horror stories of exactly where I was and what I had moved into.  I was taking my niece and a couple of friends to look at colleges in Florida, Georgia and Alabama.  It was a learning experience in more ways than one.

I, personally, don't trust racist White  people anymore than I do any other radical or extremist group of people.  Be they White, Black, Hispanic, Middle Eastern or whatever.  The only people I think I'm not afraid of yet are Asians!!  And that's only 'cause they haven't done anything that I know about yet!! 

When I hear about truck-draggings and lynchings of Black people STILL going on in certain parts down here ... There are places I won't drive to (or through) because I know they're there.  And, just a split second of "wrong place, wrong time" can have devastating consequences!!

Especially for Black people.  NOBODY likes us, you know. 

Add Reply

Likes (0)
Post
×
×
×
×