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The New White Flight

In Silicon Valley, two high schools
with outstanding academic reputations
are losing white students
as Asian students move in. Why?
quote:
CUPERTINO, Calif. -- By most measures, Monta Vista High here and Lynbrook High, in nearby San Jose, are among the nation's top public high schools. Both boast stellar test scores, an array of advanced-placement classes and a track record of sending graduates from the affluent suburbs of Silicon Valley to prestigious colleges.

But locally, they're also known for something else: white flight. Over the past 10 years, the proportion of white students at Lynbrook has fallen by nearly half, to 25% of the student body. At Monta Vista, white students make up less than one-third of the population, down from 45% -- this in a town that's half white. Some white Cupertino parents are instead sending their children to private schools or moving them to other, whiter public schools. More commonly, young white families in Silicon Valley say they are avoiding Cupertino altogether.

Whites aren't quitting the schools because the schools are failing academically. Quite the contrary: Many white parents say they're leaving because the schools are too academically driven and too narrowly invested in subjects such as math and science at the expense of liberal arts and extracurriculars like sports and other personal interests.

The two schools, put another way that parents rarely articulate so bluntly, are too Asian.
quote:
In the 1960s, the term "white flight" emerged to describe the rapid exodus of whites from big cities into the suburbs, a process that often resulted in the economic degradation of the remaining community. Back then, the phenomenon was mostly believed to be sparked by the growth in the population of African-Americans, and to a lesser degree Hispanics, in some major cities.

But this modern incarnation is different. Across the country, Asian-Americans have by and large been successful and accepted into middle- and upper-class communities. Silicon Valley has kept Cupertino's economy stable, and the town is almost indistinguishable from many of the suburbs around it. The shrinking number of white students hasn't hurt the academic standards of Cupertino's schools -- in fact the opposite is true.

This time the effect is more subtle: Some Asians believe that the resulting lack of diversity creates an atmosphere that is too sheltering for their children, leaving then unprepared for life in a country that is only 4% Asian overall. Moreover, many Asians share some of their white counterpart's concerns. Both groups finger newer Asian immigrants for the schools' intense competitiveness.
quote:
The white exodus clearly involves race-based presumptions, not all of which are positive. One example: Asian parents are too competitive. That sounds like racism to many of Cupertino's Asian residents, who resent the fact that their growing numbers and success are causing many white families to boycott the town altogether.
quote:
At Cupertino's top schools, administrators, parents and students say white students end up in the stereotyped role often applied to other minority groups: the underachievers. In one 9th-grade algebra class, Lynbrook's lowest-level math class, the students are an eclectic mix of whites, Asians and other racial and ethnic groups...

On the second floor, in advanced-placement chemistry, only a couple of the 32 students are white and the rest are Asian. Some white parents, and even some students, say they suspect teachers don't take white kids as seriously as Asians...

Ms. Gatley, the Monta Vista PTA president, is more blunt: "White kids are thought of as the dumb kids," she says.

Cupertino's administrators and faculty, the majority of whom are white, adamantly say there's no discrimination against whites. The administrators say students of all races get along well. In fact, there's little evidence of any overt racial tension between students or between their parents.

Mr. Rowley, the school superintendent, however, concedes that a perception exists that's sometimes called "the white-boy syndrome." He describes it as: "Kids who are white feel themselves a distinct minority against a majority culture."
quote:
To many of Cupertino's Asians, some of the assumptions made by white parents -- that Asians are excessively competitive and single-minded -- play into stereotypes. Top schools in nearby, whiter Palo Alto, which also have very high test scores, also feature heavy course loads, long hours of homework and overly stressed students, says Denise Pope, director of Stressed Out Students, a Stanford University program that has worked with schools in both Palo Alto and Cupertino. But whites don't seem to be avoiding those [White] institutions, or making the same negative generalizations, Asian families note, suggesting that it's not academic competition that makes white parents uncomfortable but academic competition with Asian-Americans.

Some of Cupertino's Asian residents say they don't blame white families for leaving. After all, many of the town's Asians are fretting about the same issues. While acknowledging that the term Asian embraces a wide diversity of countries, cultures and languages, they say there's some truth to the criticisms levied against new immigrant parents, particularly those from countries such as China and India, who often put a lot of academic pressure on their children.


Original article printed in the Wall Street Journal
http://www.modelminority.com/article1061.html
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Nmaginate:

I just heard a story yesterday on NPR that said that UC Berkeley is not 50% ASIAN and growing.

From the PERSPECTIVE OF THE ASIANS (I know that you love to focus on White folks) DO YOU THINK THAT THEY CARE WHAT THE WHITE FOLKS DO?

Clearly they don't think that the Whites believe that Asians are INFERIOR as they are beating the Whites at their own game.

It seems that YOU and others are on a quest to be LOVED as Black people by White people.

The ASIANS don't give a DAMN about what others think about them. They are holding no prisoners and taking no names in what they do. The loss of Blacks at Berkeley because they were DEPENDENT on a government program was A GAIN FOR THE ASIANS who have no such dependency.

At the end of the day THEY HAVE GAINED ADMISSION into this INSTITUTION WHICH IS AT THE TOP OF THE WHITE ELITE TECHNCIAL PYRAMID. They beat "da man" at his own game.

Why de White man can say that the school "smells like curry and soy sause" THEY ARE OUT and the Asian is in. Who has the last laugh?

Who cares if you are not liked as a race?
The 'new white flight' is based in the same fear. These are people in fear of losing dominance in the community in which they live.

I think it was K41 who coined the defintion of 'white' as the default definition of American.

What happens when that 'community' perceives itself as threatened?

We already know the answer: Jim Crow.

Can they really get the top back on the boiling pot?

Well...it's all about power.

Right?

PEACE

Jim Chester
CON-Feed.... SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!

quote:
I just heard a story yesterday on NPR that said that UC Berkeley is not 50% ASIAN and growing.
And Stanford and other Cali schools should have long since been majority Asian. You're late... Catch the fuck up!!

Now, if you're intelligent enough, you can figure it out. It's anecdotal (from another forum) but it's been stated before:
quote:
Twenty years ago I recall having a conversation with some Chinese friends all of whom were third, fourth and fifth generation Americans about the admission policies of an Ivy League university we had all attended. They were miffed because they felt that the university was not admitting all the qualified Chinese students who had applied. My contribution to the conversation was that the university in question would absolutely never admit all or even a majority of the qualified Chinese students that applied because one of the school's unstated societal roles was to uphold a certain cultural hegemony and viewpoint that would be undermined if a majority or a substantial minority of the students were ethnically Chinese.
But there's more as I reflect on a comment made by Sen. Joe Biden during the UM Affirmative Action case days while he was on Hardball's (With Chris Matthews) College Tour. Sen. Biden said, Stanford did a study of sorts in the early 90's that if they'd admitted students strictly on Academic Merit the school would have been virtually all Asian. Check the stats. Throughout that whole time the Stanford was either majority White or Whites maintained the largest plurality of any ethnic/racial group or classification.

And there's reason to believe Asians weren't silent about that fact:
quote:
...many universities became alarmed at the growing Asian American student population on their campuses. So much so that once the Asian proportion of their student population reached 10%-15%, they began to reject Asian students who were clearly qualified. Soon, Asian Americans were accusing universities such as U.C. Berkeley, UCLA, Stanford, Harvard, Princeton, and Brown of imposing a quota or upper limit on their admission numbers. After several protests and investigations, these universities admitted that there were problems with these admission policies but never admitted any deliberate wrongdoing.

Soon thereafter, many conservatives and opponents of affirmative action began to argue that these Asian American students were "victims" of affirmative action, just like Whites. In other words, these Asian American students were being denied admission when other "less qualified" ethnic groups (implying Blacks, Latinos, and American Indians) were being admitted.

As many Asian American scholars note, at first this argument may sound plausible. But after careful investigation, the real issue is not that Asian students are "competing" with other racial/ethnic minority groups. Rather, the real cause of this controversy is the widespread use of admissions factors that always seem to favor Whites.

http://www.asian-nation.org/affirmative-action.shtml
So, it's clear you're here running your damn mouth again without a clue of what you're talking about. But, as long as it fits your RHETORIC... You're off and running. Even if it proves you to be twice as ignorant as anyone could have ever expected.

quote:
Who cares if you are not liked as a race?
Well, RHETORIC MAN (as alluded to above)... It would seem as if those "Asians" from that very website that I quoted the WSJ story sorta "Focus On White Folk" too. So what really seems to be your problem?

I do believe this isn't the first time you were presented with this site or this opportunity to educate your profound ignorance... all with the same rhetorical thrust and purpose you want to DENY:

TO CONSTRUCTIVE FEEDBACK:
Black people are not the helpless, unachieving, can't-do-anything-for-themselves, doormats that you are constantly alluding to... if you'll quit thinking we're sooooo pitiful, you may be able to see ways that we can improve upon our strengths and build on our achievements -- instead of browbeating us with "you're screwed up and will never amount to anything" type tactics. - signed EBONY ROSE (et al)


But more to the point:
quote:
About ModelMinority.com: A Guide to Asian American Empowerment

As diverse and rapidly changing as the society we live in, Asian Americans do not conform to any single description. Despite this, Americans reluctant to address the realities of continuing racism and white privilege have consistently portrayed Asian Americans as a "model minority" who have uniformly succeeded by merit.

While superficially complimentary to Asian Americans, the real purpose and effect of this portrayal is to celebrate the status quo in race relations. First, by over-emphasizing Asian American success, it de-emphasizes the problems Asian Americans continue to face from racial discrimination in all areas of public and private life. Second, by misrepresenting Asian American success as proof that America provides equal opportunities for those who conform and work hard, it excuses American society from careful scrutiny on issues of race in general, and on the persistence of racism against Asian Americans in particular.

http://www.modelminority.com/index.html


And, Mr. PUNK (or is it Mr. Pussy?)...
Stop FRONTIN'... You claimed to believe in TWO FRONTS?
Then what's all the [projectionist] RHETORIC for??

quote:
It seems that YOU and others are on a quest to be LOVED... by White people.
So how do you explain your many acts IN DEFERENCE? ... In other words, STFU!!!

Leave the RHETORIC at home and STFU!!

PUNK or PUSSY?? You tell me, because I'm still conflicted... and laughing too.
I mean, you're the one with this FANTASTIC SAMS view but you talk about the "quests" of someone else.
You're a freakin' joke!
Talk shit while logically defending the shit you say or.... STFU!!!
Last edited {1}
the only thing i want to add here is if asians are so intelligent, disciplined and organized why is the continent of asia so screwed up.

when asians come to this country, their bond to family, culture and community is quite profound. academic mediocrity or failure is seen as shameful...nothing less than excellence is acceptable. and i know this from relating to asian people i have known. for example, have an indian friend, who had one average semester back when we were in college. he was born in america and thus americanized so excessive partying, hanging out and cramming for examinations was the norm. when his mother saw the grades, she said he was a shame not only to family but to india. needless to say, my friend excelled from there.

black americans don't operate that way and to be honest, i wish we did...we would be better off (at least academically) for it.
black americans don't operate that way and to be honest, i wish we did...we would be better off (at least academically) for it.---Negrological

I agree.

I believe is because of pride; a sense of responsibility to your family; to your identity.

We have yet achieved that sense-of-self.

Sadly, we still insist that what we are 'black' is who we are.

Not to 'preach', but...

There is nothing to be responsibile to in 'blackness'. There is no uniqueness.

And...'black' is the basis for the construction that constrains us.


PEACE

Jim Chester
Since we're speculating... Anyone care to comment on whether we'd even have "civil rights" if we were like "Asians"??---Nmaginate

That is interesting.

I think the answer is, 'No."

What would be the issue?

Our society is based on 'color'. The system does not refer to Asians as 'yellow'. This is not to say there is no racism direct to Asians.

We all know there is.

But what would be the issue?

The arithmetic is not large enough to threaten political power.

That's what this whole thing against African American-Americans is about, after all. All the issues ultimately tie back to political power.

No, there would not have been a civil rights movement.

Always remember the comment of the lawyer (Asian) who was on the committee for the 'Discussion About Race', chaired by John Hope Franklin, who told him to 'Get over it!!!'

I know she didn't speak for all Asians, but there is an attitude there that resonates in much of the Asian population.


PEACE

Jim Chester
quote:
when asians come to this country, their bond to family, culture and community is quite profound. academic mediocrity or failure is seen as shameful...nothing less than excellence is acceptable. and i know this from relating to asian people i have known. for example, have an indian friend, who had one average semester back when we were in college. he was born in america and thus americanized so excessive partying, hanging out and cramming for examinations was the norm. when his mother saw the grades, she said he was a shame not only to family but to india. needless to say, my friend excelled from there.

black americans don't operate that way and to be honest, i wish we did...we would be better off (at least academically) for it.


Why do we continue to take denigrate ourselves? Mad bang

I, for one, partied my butt off my entire 1st semester of college and my grades reflected it. When I got my grades, I was embarassed and ashamed to show them to my parents. When I finally did, they read me the riot act and I excelled from there.

I would wager that there are far more Black parents riding Black students to achieve than we give ourselves credit for.

Just ask any child of Black parents that wanted to go to college but for whatever reason couldn't, but worked 2 jobs to afford their child the opportunity.
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
Why do we continue to take denigrate ourselves? Mad bang

I, for one, partied my butt off my entire 1st semester of college and my grades reflected it. When I got my grades, I was embarassed and ashamed to show them to my parents. When I finally did, they read me the riot act and I excelled from there.

I would wager that there are far more Black parents riding Black students to achieve than we give ourselves credit for.

Just ask any child of Black parents that wanted to go to college but for whatever reason couldn't, but worked 2 jobs to afford their child the opportunity.


my posting had nothing to do with denigration, it was a critique based on my observations. i love black people as much as anyone here and because of my love, i'm unafraid to criticize. if you have a family member or friend going down the wrong path, are you not going to express objection and/or provide a solution?

i don't believe in attacking the social system of opression to the point of absolving my people of responsibility. YES, we have limited choices but we still have a responsibility to handle those limited choices in a dignified, productive and respectful manner. if we want to be the people we were are destined to be, we not only have to deal with social marginalization and disenfranchisement but we have to excersize our own demons and shortcomings.

i grew up in the south bronx and still go to visit family. and i'll guarantee you most of the kids i see walking around aimlessly don't have parents at home drilling home the notion of a good education. those kids aren't being told...if you're not educated you're dishonoring family and the african-american community.
quote:
i grew up in the south bronx and still go to visit family. and i'll guarantee you most of the kids i see walking around aimlessly don't have parents at home drilling home the notion of a good education. those kids aren't being told...if you're not educated you're dishonoring family and the african-american community.


Granted. And I would wager that the aimlessly wondering kids of any race/ethnicity don't have parents at home drilling the notion of good education or being told that they are dishonoring their family and community.

My love of Black people is expressed in discussing what we are doing [positive], e.g., encouraging our off-spring/youth to pursue education, and suggesting that that is the norm. I know that for me and most of my neighborhood friends, it was the expectation that we would go to school and excel.

My love for our community, however, does not include criticizing Black folk, because they are Black, for conduct that is present in other racial/ethnic groupings.

While I agree that there are things that we could do as a community that would serve to advance us, because I realize that we, just like every other community, have our share of F-Ups, as well as successes, I don't hold our community to a higher standard.

I see that as a "I beat you because I love you" mentality. And, all that accomplishes is someone getting beat.
quote:
i grew up in the south bronx and still go to visit family. and i'll guarantee you most of the kids i see walking around aimlessly don't have parents at home drilling home the notion of a good education. those kids aren't being told...if you're not educated you're dishonoring family and the african-american community.
But, NEGROLOGICAL, do you realize you assigned that behavior to "Black Americans" generally... As in MOST of us, if not ALL of us. What's problematic, IMO, is that the sentiment seems so is symptomatic. Which is part of the reason for my thread on Accumulated Knowledge.

The funny thing about all this, these supposed critiques, is how they have ignored what was plain to see in the article. ALL ASIANS AREN'T LIKE THAT... and those who are AMERICANIZED are, demonstrably, less so. But never an opportunity missed due to this weird drive to "critique" and justify it no matter what.

N-Logical, you jumped right in with the stereotyping and since you could attest to one person who fit the stereotype, you felt justified in using it to effectively berate Black People. That's what you communicated whether you intended it our not.

FYI, stereotypes work both ways. You can discredit and you can also give too much credit or overstate things, as you did.

quote:
it was a critique based on my observations.
But surely you know your observations are not universal. In other words, no matter how much "truth" there is to what you've said (about your observations from where you've grown up, and I doubt you've come to know a representative sample of ALL Black people) it is hardly true in the way you've expressed it.

For your experience, KWELI holds up his experience. Now, you want to tell me that just because KWELI observed or experienced what he did that his experience is somehow representative just because it's "based on his observations."

quote:
we have to excersize our own demons and shortcomings.
And part of our own demons is this "I beat you because I love you" mentality. BROWBEAT is more like it. All these sentiments, as "valid" as they are, are overburdened, overladen emotions that really communicates something other than "I want us to do better."

Part of our own demons (those who express these exasperated sentiments) is this magnifying of our "shortcomings" into capital offenses without referencing our situation, as it is, in context.

quote:
we not only have to deal with social marginalization and disenfranchisement but we have to excersize our own demons
But in all of our critiques and "exercising", how is it that so many of us treat those things as if they are unrelated?

The so-called phenomenon of "Acting White"... with a history where education has been deprived and an on-going situation where quality education is still being undermined... somehow we are suppose to be superhumans who jump in leaps and bounds and act as if we are uneffected by the world around us and the forces that work against us.

Obviously, few are critiquing their own critiques for the realistic expectations as opposed to the "should be" variety that takes little into account as to why things are as the are, what progress has been made and/or why more progress does or doesn't seem likely to come (fast enough).

If we're going to talk about responsibility, then where is the discussion of what it will take to realistically turn things around or TRANSFORM them, as CON-Feed would say, in the way people suggest?

See... I find that conversation lacking. So, IMO, the degree of responsibility sought by those concerned is questionable. And that, not as a mark against them questioning their Love of Black People, but questioning their (our) ability to go beyond emotional reactions to [some of] our "shortcomings" and the simplistic thinking about effective and practical solutions.

"Just Say No!" was an empty campaign. Likewise, "Value Education" hardly speaks to how to do that. How to maintain that. What it takes to do that, etc. Part of those "demons" in some of our people rests in their own lack of education... And that is intergenerational.

How many of those Asian parents have comparative educational backgrounds/accomplishments as the Black families you reference? Is it a legit comparison?

Asian parents who are doctors, etc. compared to Black parents who work at a factory if at all?

Who would you think would have the ability to hold their kids, on avg., to a higher standard? Black parents or the Asian parents?

Also, if we're going to talk about Black "People" then we have to talk collective solutions and interventions and not just individual ones.
Nmaginate:

According to THIS INTERVIEW about the hisotrical racism in the Ivy League the recent discrepancy in admissions for Asians was due to their lack of participation in ATHLETICS and extra-curricular activities as compared to other populations of students.

http://www.wamu.org/programs/dr/05/11/21.php

YOUR BLANKET statement does not capture the entire issue.

IT IS IRRELEVANT in the discussion of how BLACK PEOPLE are going to increase our numbers in such schools. You clearly don't have an answer nor a CLUE.
quote:
I know that for me and most of my neighborhood friends, it was the expectation that we would go to school and excel.


My experience was the same. It seems the contrasting experiences, as youth and as adults, determine our respective outlooks.

quote:
My love for our community, however, does not include criticizing Black folk, because they are Black, for conduct that is present in other racial/ethnic groupings.


I understand wanting our people to do better for all our sake, but it's difficult to understand how we can realistically expect to become a monolith, while at the same time admitting we are not, and haven't ever been.

quote:
While I agree that there are things that we could do as a community that would serve to advance us, because I realize that we, just like every other community, have our share of F-Ups, as well as successes, I don't hold our community to a higher standard.


Years back India's government detected the computer technology trend and made it their mission to grab a corner of that market by educating their people in the field. They were successful.

In various cities in America Black grassroots organizations are attempting to educate and inform our ethnicity to create a similar outcome --not in the computer technology field per se, but in overall empowerment. They include diverse and relatively struggling organizations like:

  • BISA...Black Women in Sisterhood for Action, it provides scholarships to deserving youth and support to older people.


  • Na'eem Cultural Institute ...a non-profit organization providing speaking and training engagements in the areas of cultural diversity, rites of passage training, alternative methods of healing, conflict resolution, violence prevention, women's issues, youth prevention programs, family planning, and job skills development.

  • BCA ...Black Culinary Alliance - "With education as the cornerstone of our mission, the BCA continues creating many of the opportunities that people of color can take advantage of and incorporate into their long-lasting career goals."


We remain ignorant of the many self-help organizations run by us and for us at our peril.
quote:
Originally posted by Nmaginate:
But, NEGROLOGICAL, do you realize you assigned that behavior to "Black Americans" generally... As in MOST of us, if not ALL of us. What's problematic, IMO, is that the sentiment seems so is symptomatic. Which is part of the reason for my thread on Accumulated Knowledge.

The funny thing about all this, these supposed critiques, is how they have ignored what was plain to see in the article. ALL ASIANS AREN'T LIKE THAT... and those who are AMERICANIZED are, demonstrably, less so. But never an opportunity missed due to this weird drive to "critique" and justify it no matter what.

N-Logical, you jumped right in with the stereotyping and since you could attest to one person who fit the stereotype, you felt justified in using it to effectively berate Black People. That's what you communicated whether you intended it our not.

FYI, stereotypes work both ways. You can discredit and you can also give too much credit or overstate things, as you did.


you missed the entire point. are you disagreeing that black people (as a whole) would be better off if there was a profound attachment to community as my indian example? and why? i'd like you to be more specific...
quote:
you missed the entire point. are you disagreeing that black people (as a whole) would be better off if there was a profound attachment to community as my indian example? and why? i'd like you to be more specific...


Absolutely, we would be better off if there were a profound attachment to community. But as Isome noted:

quote:
I understand wanting our people to do better for all our sake, but it's difficult to understand how we can realistically expect to become a monolith, while at the same time admitting we are not, and haven't ever been.


And so, I'll repeat:
quote:
I realize that we, just like every other community, have our share of F-Ups, as well as successes, I don't hold our community to a higher standard.

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