Not Modeling The "Model": The New White Flight

quote:

what is the purpose of a question, you ask? [/question]I asked you what was the purpose of your question in the particular context in which it fell.

NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!

[QUOTE] people ask questions because they are trying to obtain information to achieve personal clarification or understanding.

I didn't ask you about "people" or some general reason why people ask questions. Your question was clearly a rhetorical question with little bit of nothing innocent and mere fact finding about it.

quote:

typically questions are personal in nature hense my confusion why a personal question needs justification of purpose to you.

Hmmm... Are you confused by your own inability to answer the very personal question about your own personal motivation for asking such a blatantly rhetorical-leading question that you and I both know has no basis in context?

quote:

is questioning the questions of others your modus operandi?

I guess it is when people ask non-following, tangential or otherwise irrelevant questions.

quote:

my original question may have been a bit to cryptic for your liking but nevertheless it wasn't posed to suit your needs but mine.

And it was exactly your rhetorical and VALIDATION NEEDS that I was not going to dignify.

You trying to wax incredulously with the ridiculous. You have plenty of information of what I think about your "Indian Model." And you know the other part (the only part Kweli saw fit to dignify) is just absurd. Absurd for you to even try to frame such a question (just so you can feel validate... or vindicated).

Simple demonstration (the part Kweli addressed):
are you disagreeing that black people (as a whole) would be better off if there was a profound attachment to community?

Ummm... Yeah, it makes a lot of sense and logically connects with what I already said for me to say, "Yes. I disagree. I DON'T think Black People as a whole would be better off if we had a [more] profound sense/attachment to community?"

Yep!! That really sounds like something you can logically draw from what is clearly recorded with respect to my views.

If you're as academically accomplished as you say you are then you can do a whole lot better than to come begging me to agree with you with some pre-school level rhetorical questions playing on the incredulous "How dare you disagree with me. You can't be disagreeing with me. Are you disagreeing? How dare you!"... and bordering on the absolutely ridiculous. "My Indian Example..."

You're talking about the one in which you said:
if asians are so intelligent, disciplined and organized why is the continent of asia so screwed up.??????

LOL... How about demonstrating when and where I "stereotyped" you as a "conservative ideologue??"

Now that's too funny... Question one little premise of yours (one that you think is self-evident, when it is not... as expressed) and you go to grasping at straws... Desperately.

Please. Whenever you get finished, though... You or anyone else (CON-Feed) can start addressing this:

quote:

If we're going to talk about responsibility, then where is the discussion of what it will take to realistically turn things around or TRANSFORM them, as CON-Feed would say, in the way people suggest?

See... I find that conversation lacking. So, IMO, the degree of responsibility sought by those concerned is questionable. And that, not as a mark against them questioning their Love of Black People, but questioning their (our) ability to go beyond emotional reactions to [some of] our "shortcomings" and [away from] the simplistic thinking [that hardly promotes] effective and practical solutions.

"Just Say No!" was an empty campaign. Likewise, "Value Education" hardly speaks to how to do that. How to maintain that. What it takes to do that, etc.

quote:

Asians DID NOT advance the use of Affirmative Action to a point ANYWHERE NEAR the level that was advocated by Blacks and to some extent Hispanics.

Please link that to whatever statements, yours or mine, to which you think it is relevant.

To be clear, you and I both know you were trying to suggest that Asian-Americans did not resort to or did not have to resort to "protest" in order to gain admissions when I clearly demonstrated that they, in fact, did. The degree or extent to which they did is irrelevant.

They didn't get to 50% by osmosis or out of the kinds of someone's heart. LAWSUIT equals one very well documented and LOUD (in terms of being meaningful) "protest."

quote:

THEIR CULTURE IS SELF SUSTAINING AND THEY DON'T NEED VALIDATION BY AND LARGE.

Yeah, so "self-sustaining" they didn't have to resort to "protest" in this glorious day and age when there is, effectively, no racism or violations of that effect that go on, as you say, with impunity. Hmmm... Before the LAWSUIT? (or even after) Those Asian students who did not get admitted? What legal recourse did they have?

Those that had come and gone onto life after college... What did they get as a result of the type of discrimination they were subjected to?

FYI, my balls are as far out of my pants as my dick is in your mouth. That's why you keep making yourself look stupid. You can't get that taste out your mouth. Mikey!!

quote:

Originally posted by Nmaginate:
people ask questions because they are trying to obtain information to achieve personal clarification or understanding.

I didn't ask you about "people" or some general reason why people ask questions. Your question was clearly a rhetorical question with little bit of nothing innocent and mere fact finding about it.[/QUOTE]

two points:

1) you've made a poor assumption...my question wasn't rhetorical.

2) i'll rephrase the 'question' answer for you.

what is the purpose of a question, you ask? I ask questions because I'M trying to obtain information to achieve personal clarification AND understanding. typically questions ARE personal in nature hense MY confusion why a personal question needs justification of purpose to YOU. is questioning the questions of others your modus operandi? MY original question may have been a bit to cryptic for YOUR liking but nevertheless it wasn't posed to suit YOUR needs but MINE.

is this clear enough?

quote:

I mean, unless your Indian friend's parents were just as poor and just as (un)educated as the parents of your friends and family you reference as living in the South Bronx then you are not only holding those Black people to a higher standard, you're holding them to a Double Standard of sorts. Not only do you expect them to do better but you expect them to do better than or just as good as people who ostensibly are from a higher socio-economic class than they are which is ridiculous.

Again, you've made quick use of stereotypes and generalizations to make a "point" which again communicates something ridiculously negative because you can't be bothered with making accurate comparisons (from like samples).

since you want to talk about generalizations and assumptions lets examine this piece of evidence.

this could be either a generalization of indians or a false assumption due to lack of understanding. if i told you my friend was mexican or puerto rican i HIGHLY doubt you would have phrased this comment as such. i never at any time mentioned socio-economic class but you assumed my friend was most likely (or could be) of a higher class. you'll undoubtedly come back and say, "where did i say this?". you didn't have to mention it directly because the insinuation was there. my point is, no matter what you say to combat this statement you've trapped yourself in a corner with no escape. either you engaged in false assumptions (i.e. holding them to double standard) or you engaged in generalizing (i.e. unless they were poor) indians. which one is it?

quote:

If you're as academically accomplished as you say you are then you can do a whole lot better than to come begging me to agree with you with some pre-school level rhetorical questions playing on the incredulous "How dare you disagree with me. You can't be disagreeing with me. Are you disagreeing? How dare you!"... and bordering on the absolutely ridiculous. "My Indian Example..."

it's interesting you get so easily flustered to the point you feel it necessary to engage in pre-adolescent style insults. i normally don't post on the internet because of disrespectful people...it's too easy for people to act like jackasses when in the real world, they act sensibly. as mentioned before you are far too angry for your own good. it's almost akin to black-on-black crime where anger & frustration is misplaced towards our own people. it's inconceivable to me why a reflective and intelligent black man, like yourself, would waste mind and talent verbally attacking other black people. you are better than this.

i find it hard to believe you could be this way in the real world especially against black people. if i was sitting directly in front of you i think this conversation would have been far more cordial.

in conclusion, i'm not con-feed so if you attack me again in a personal matter, i will ignore any and everything you have to say from that point forward. i like reading what you have to say, just as long as it doesn't get personal...that's not cool.

quote:

1) you've made a poor assumption...my question wasn't rhetorical.

Umm... Yes it was. It assumed some desired way of thinking. Something that shouldn't be disagreed with... not to mention you assuming that I didn't agree with whatever you thought was an actual relevant point/part of your question.

In the context in which you asked it, it was indeed a classic RHETORICAL QUESTION. Otherwise, you would have no qualms about relating it to the context of the conversation - i.e. what I said that gave you reason or gave rise to such a question.

quote:

is this clear enough?

If that's what you meant, you could have easily been (*ahem*) more specific the first time.

As for my statement regarding your friend and your Indian Example... Somehow another Double Standard of yours is employed. You want me to treat your questions/comments at face value, despite context, but you find it hard to extend the same privilege to me. Somehow the words "unless your Indian friend's parents were..." don't seem to qualify anything for you. (And I don't recall anything I took issue with, anything you said being so qualified. That was in fact the contention: That you didn't qualify your statement(s)...)

But, being honest, there is a degree of generalization that exist in how I addressed you're attempt to extrapolate your friend's situation and how his parents (mother) were, in terms of pushing him to excel.

My assumption though, which obviously (unlike you) I have no problem revealing, is based on well established factual information and not mere [weak] anecdotal evidence:

quote:

Prior to their arrival in the U.S., most Indian immigrants were of upper middle class professional backgrounds. Foreign-born Indians have had the highest levels of education in all categories in any time period in the history of immigration in the U.S. Based on the 1990 census, the percentages of Indians who had bachelor's and master's degrees was 71%, the highest of any group in the country (Sheth, 1997). The educational achievements of the Indian group in the U.S. is due to a large percentage of select immigrant professionals, who chose to leave India and come to the U.S. for better opportunities for themselves and their children. For Indian parents, the single most important reason to immigrate is career and their own professional advancement, as well as opportunities for their children.

http://cirrie.buffalo.edu/india.html#_Toc521302816

So, to the extent that I assumed anything, I think I have much more to stand on give that information and your obvious Double Standards.... That's plural. You will note that you, of course, would not extrapolate from anecdote or the law of avgs. that one such Black person who overcame family tragedy, etc. would be something or enough to speak to the character of the group, if only in general terms.

As for Mexicans, etc... the same type of self-selection or Brain Drain is not the standard pattern of what describes their status as immigrants:

quote:

Latino immigrants on average have lower levels of education, fewer marketable skills, and lower levels of English proficiency than immigrants from other parts of the world.

Now, tell me exactly what kind of TRAP did I lay for myself? See? As I said, I have no problem explaining what FACTUAL information there is that informs my opinion. You know, the FACTUAL information that causes me to say the things I do and pose the questions I do. Now, where is yours??

(Note: When it comes to anecdotal information, particularly as it relates to Asians (if you want to use that broad designator) I grew up with some "Asians", two sets of brothers as a matter of fact, and far as I can remember only one was an above avg student... And I'm speculating because he was several years younger...)

quote:

it's interesting you get so easily flustered to the point you feel it necessary to engage in pre-adolescent style insults.

Did I insult you?

quote:

i normally don't post on the internet because of disrespectful people...it's too easy for people to act like jackasses when in the real world, they act sensibly.

yada... yada... When you don't know me in real life, you have no basis for how I would debate/discuss with you in real life. NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

quote:

it's inconceivable to me why a reflective and intelligent black man, like yourself, would waste mind and talent verbally attacking other black people. you are better than this.

Please try those silly Emotional Appeals on someone who cares... (and doesn't recognize those silly Emotional Appeals). As I said, in essence, "You Are Better Than That..." You know, asking me some lame rhetorical question trying to beg me to agree with you. Either you point was strong enough to carry you prior to such a weak, transparent and telegraphed question or it was not.

quote:

i find it hard to believe you could be this way in the real world especially against black people. if i was sitting directly in front of you i think this conversation would have been far more cordial.

Assumptions, assumptions... assumptions. You don't know me.

quote:

in conclusion, i'm not con-feed

Ummm... I kinda know that. And, funny, I kinda know I have blasted you anywhere near the way I blast him. Now, that's between him and me. For you to try to resurrect your unfounded notion that I thought you were/are a "conservative ideologue" is just all the more funny. Maybe you have designs on emulating him. I had no idea or presumption that you would... But, all these unfounded assumptions because you... because you are frustrated, flustered, etc. because I dared to contradict you, questioned your transparent question, etc., etc. Well, let's just say that you've written your own conclusion: That hardly anything you said is really true about how you can take someone disagreeing with you. You wanted to be validated, if not vindicated, even though I was clear in pointing out how you not only contradicted yourself but based your ideas on the flimsiest of evidence: Anecdotal (only).

quote:

so if you attack me again in a personal matter, i will ignore any and everything you have to say

This is always the funniest stuff ever said. ANNOUCEMENT: "I will ignore you."

Dude, do as you wish or as you must. We're still cool...

quote:

i like reading what you have to say, just as long as it doesn't get personal...that's not cool.

Wouldn't be personal if you didn't take it personal. When did I insult you? What? Did I insult you because I refused to validate you? Please explain... and be specific.

quote:

i find it hard to believe you could be this way in the real world especially against black people...

in conclusion, i'm not con-feed...

Revisiting this... It's funny how you talk about things being personal and someone being "flustered", yet, it is you who are all off the subject trying to make this personal.

But, since I'm the Constrast Man, perhaps this little substitution will help your attempt to deviate from the subject. And it goes a little something like this (from me to you):

My posting had nothing to do with denigrating you, personally. It was my critique based on my observations. I love black people as much as anyone here. And, because of my love, I'm unafraid to criticize [weak arguments/weakly stated positions, no matter who they come from].

If you have a family member or friend going down the wrong rhetorical or argumentative path, are you not going to express objection and/or provide a correction [by highlighting their fallacies and logical flaws]?

That, too, is a rhetorical question. But you can answer it out loud...

Nmaginate:

have a happy thanksgiving...i'm not used to this cyber back and forth...

we'll continue the discussion next week!

Happy Turkey and Family day to you too!