Niger struggles against Islamist militants

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"I'm just trying to make a way out of no way, for my people" -Modejeska Monteith Simpkins

 

AFRICAN AMERICA IS AT WAR

THERE IS A RACE WAR ON AFRICAN AMERICA

THERE IS A RACE WAR ON AFRICAN AMERICANS

THERE IS A RACE WAR ON BLACK PEOPLE IN AMERICA

AMERICA'S RACISTS HAVE INFILTRATED AMERICAN POLICE FORCES TO WAGE A RACE WAR AGAINST BLACK PEOPLE IN AMERICA

THE BLACK RACE IS AT WAR

FIRST WORLD WAR:  THE APPROXIMATELY 6,000 YEAR WORLD WAR ON AFRICA AND THE BLACK RACE

Original Post

“When we cry, we need to be heard by the world."

 

And that's exactly right.  Otherwise, all of Africa will be smeared with these Islamic extremists.  And it's not about the religion per se.  It's about CONTROL.  It's about being socially STUCK in a backward azz mindset that continuously aborts PROGRESS.    And...most importantly the only ones to benefit from this sickness are the MEN.  The women will suffer as well as the children will suffer.  And these extremists ALWAYS wanna point fingers at the West....while REFUSING to look in the mirror at their own horrific discretions-which is ABSOLUTELY dangerous and a revolving backslide THREAT to humanity.  But!

"It's about CONTROL."

 

***************************************************

 

That's it, control and Arab "expansion" (remember the "Western Expansion" chapters in American History?). Africans have been caught up in that Arab/Islamic psych game for centuries now.  

 

They now have most of the world seeing Egypt as not part of "Africa" as well as other northern parts of Africa, especially with the constant reference to "sub"-Saharant Africa, the subliminal suggestion that one, that part of Africa and the people living below the Sahara is beneath any part of Africa or people living above the Sahara, and two, for both geographic locations to be viewed as separate as one views Europe and Asia or North America and Australia.  

 

I would like to know when the world, Africans, African Americans, the Black diaspora, is going to call out Saudi Arabia for financing all of this death and destruction throughout Africa.  All these dirt poor Arabs invading Africa under the guise of "Islam" don't have the money to the purchase of the amount and caliber of weapons they the are using to pull off all these brutal invasions.  

 

But, we know where they are purchasing these weapons from, America, Europe, and Russia.  All of whom need to be called out for supplying all these weapons to the very people that they are claiming to be "terrorists" and "insurgents" in the first place.  At the same time these same countries are claiming to need to set-up military operations or going and "train" Africans to defend themselves from the very people that they have sold all these weapons to in the first place.

 

Man, psychology is just not Black people's strong suit. 

Sista Sunnubian wrote:  Man, psychology is just not Black people's strong suit.

 

  No it's not. Only because we have been under the hammer of psychological brainwashing.  It started with the rhetorical device of stating that we were subhumans.  And for a looooong time...many including the ones who created that lie....BELIEVED IT too.  So it's a continium that muddles the mind of black folks EVERYWHERE-including Africa, the Islands.....and yes America.  Tragic.  But!

 

By the way:  That's why I returned to college to obtain another degree.  This time in Psychology, specializing in child psychology[deveopment] with an emphasis on historical and environmental child abuse.  I'm working on my dissertation now....i.e. planning ahead....so that when the time comes I will have all my facts and research already in line and professionally formatted so all I have to do is write my findings with accurate and adequate references-which is easier said than done.  But! I'm up for the challenge    

Originally Posted by Kocolicious:

By the way:  That's why I returned to college to obtain another degree.  This time in Psychology, specializing in child psychology[deveopment] with an emphasis on historical and environmental child abuse.  I'm working on my dissertation now....i.e. planning ahead....so that when the time comes I will have all my facts and research already in line and professionally formatted so all I have to do is write my findings with accurate and adequate references-which is easier said than done.  But! I'm up for the challenge    

  

Good for you, Koco.  I've been contemplating whether or not I'm through with going back to school.  I burned out after my last stint and was particularly angry at myself for getting so far in student loan debt (again).  I'm also not so sure now that I believe that most degrees are worth it compared to the amount of debt you have to take on to get it in the first place since our politicians have laid in bed with corporate America/special interest groups(whoever has the most "lobby" money) over the past decades turning our schools from institutions of knowledge and learning into cash cows for these groups, and with no (real) regard to America's students, or America's future.  I just had to jump off the hamster wheel long enough to think.

Everything you say is soooooo true my sista.  The cost is off the roof.  As is why at this point I'm only taking a few classes at a time.  I used to waive scholarship proposals cuz I wanted the "kids" to take advantage of them....but!  Now, I have no choice but to accept the scholarship programs I'm qualified for in order to pay for my courses/books and materials.

 

Having said that, [since all my childen are grown], I have a personal obligation to teach/reach our black kids BEFORE everything is SNATCHED away educational wise.  You know...before college education will be strictly for the elite[like in many countries aboard] and before caste social classes resurfaces in our nation making it extremely difficult to obtain a proper education for our people....cuz it's acoming.   

 

As far as a degree is concerned, I'm NOT really doing it for that.  Because most times especially during my collegiate career in the past, I have almost always disagreed with what most professors were conveying to  students in terms of truth, accurate information and their teaching approach/style.  But I mainly returned cuz I know if I am to build a few fabulous educational/after school centers throughout my community[which is my goal], mere specialty degrees are NOT gonna get the millions of dollars allocated for the purpose of helping our youth excel.  And the funding is out there.  Cuz to my dismay and observation, there are several colleagues of mine who shouldn't be NO WHERE near children [let alone teach/reach them] are receiving these million dollar bonds to build [not lease]new facilities JUST cuz they have a doctorate or PH.D after their name.  They care less about the outcome of at risk children and care more about the prestige this educational accomplishment brings.  I've worked in this environment for over 25 years and continue to see the injustice of how money designed specifically for children's upward mobility is consistently misappropriated just cuz certain folks have the required "title."   Cuz my sista many of 'em  ARE NOT doing the work.  Just pretending they are.  And that's the biggest political sham against our people thus far. 

 

I am no longer satisfied with the crumbs [called donations] thrown at our children who really NEED the help..in that I am getting kinda of burned out with creating gold outta gold dust.  But most importantly I keep going cuz I have seen with my own eyes what our "work" does for these hard to reach youngsters...many have went on to college, some have joined the military and a few are now participating in the music industry in some productive/constructive form-which brings tears to my eyes cuz these were monster bay bays' kids to the nth power.   So if I had my way to build in areas that REALLY NEEDS it?  Could you imagine the "children" who will benefit?  So in the larger picture, the little money that it will take to achieve this huge plan....really is the least of my concern.  Cuz I gotta do this.  Just gotta.  It will my contribution to my people.  Feel me? 

 

Sorry I went off topic.....but!  I am completely passionate about this.  Completely,  But!   

I would like to know when the world, Africans, African Americans, the Black diaspora, is going to call out Saudi Arabia for financing all of this death and destruction throughout Africa.  All these dirt poor Arabs invading Africa under the guise of "Islam" don't have the money to the purchase of the amount and caliber of weapons they the are using to pull off all these brutal invasions.

 

 

One of your other post contained a reference from Mahmood Mamdani. I've posted material from him before (largely ignored in the Libya thread).  One of the biggest problems in dealing with any of the situations in Africa is the assumption of false, faulty or uninformed narritives taken as to be universally understood truths and starting points.  

 

I'd HIGHLY recommend people reivew his (and several others) material before declaring a hardcore position on exactly what's going on in Africa today. 

 

Okay,  So what are YOU saying?  That by reading up on Mahmood Mamdani will dismiss the fact that  there isn't true turmoil in Africa?  Or that Arabs aren't trying to take OVER all of Africa?  What?  I mean most of us know that he is an Indian born professor who have written a lot of books specializing in the subject of Arabs/Muslims...but!  Not knowing who he is ....does that take away or change what is going in Africa?  And what has been going in Africa for 1400 years?  I truly don't understand your position.  Just say it!  If it's something WE don't know or haven't considered....spill it out!  Here is your opportunity.

  So what are YOU saying?  That by reading up on Mahmood Mamdani will dismiss the fact that  there isn't true turmoil in Africa?

 

No.  Im suggesting that reading up on that perspective makes for a more informed position on what the turmoil in Africa.

 

Or that Arabs aren't trying to take OVER all of Africa? 

 

Define "Arab" and problems quickly arise with that statement and position. 

 

 

I mean most of us know that he is an Indian born professor who have written a lot of books specializing in the subject of Arabs/Muslims...but!  Not knowing who he is ....does that take away or change what is going in Africa?

 

Are you familiar with his work, or did you just google his bio (serious question not an insult)?  He (along with quite a few others) are not only noted for their scholarship on the conflicts and history on the continent, but is also noted for the clear distinction he makes between colonial and non colonial "research and scholarship" that informs both public opinion and policy matters. There is a heavy media conflation of terms like Arab, Islamist, extremist, militant that draws attention away from actually learning what is going on and the history/context that lead up to what we read about today. 

 

Black people in the the US take the conflated frame a step further in suggesting that "Arab and Chinese are the new white people and Africa better wake up and watch out".   Strangely this echo's the statements uttered by H.R.C concerning Chinese involvement in Africa.   That didn't go over too well for good reasons.  

 

Consider that carefully, Black people repeating positions that the US State department supports in as much as it furthers the interest of multinational corporations.  Much of it done out of being ill informed on historical context of world events (including in the US).

Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:

I would like to know when the world, Africans, African Americans, the Black diaspora, is going to call out Saudi Arabia for financing all of this death and destruction throughout Africa.  All these dirt poor Arabs invading Africa under the guise of "Islam" don't have the money to the purchase of the amount and caliber of weapons they the are using to pull off all these brutal invasions.

 

 

One of your other post contained a reference from Mahmood Mamdani. I've posted material from him before (largely ignored in the Libya thread).  One of the biggest problems in dealing with any of the situations in Africa is the assumption of false, faulty or uninformed narritives taken as to be universally understood truths and starting points.  

 

I'd HIGHLY recommend people reivew his (and several others) material before declaring a hardcore position on exactly what's going on in Africa today. 

 

 

 

What is your personal view on what is going on in Africa?  I can only see Africa suffering from Arab "Expansion" under the guise of "Islam" in these parts of Africa.  If this continues most of Africa will just be another Egypt, where centuries from now it will be hard or impossible for people to even imagine that those region were formally populated by Black people.  I'm also flabbergasted to see that other African nations will not/do not come together to put a stop to this Arab "Expansion" of their continent.

 

Arabs are doing the exact same thing to Africa and Africans as Europeans did to this country and Native Americans.  

 

Arabs are doing the exact same thing to Africa and Africans as Europeans did to this country and Native Americans.  

  
There is an unspoken assumption of who and what an Arab is, which is why I ask people to define it and think about it (whether or not you post it online).  What you posted is a popular notion, but problematic when you get into the colonial and cultural history of these region.  My position is much to nuanced for me to type out at the moment, though I can say that I do not accept the auto conflation of Arab with European or "fare skinned people from the Middle Eastern region".  Once you begin looking at some of the conflicts, you see non trivial instances where cultural invasion (i.e. Arabs coming in and imposing anything) simply doesn't exist. 
 
The original Arabs where/are very much Black (and very Dark at that).  This is no small matter when you trace how and why Black Africans self identify as Arab not by way of any forced or coerced "conversion".
 
We cannot avoid the implications of colonialism in Africa on today's conflicts any more than we can avoid the implication of American slavery on the US Black communities conflicts.  In addition to that, we have to get out of the habit of thinking everything can be summed up in 4 short bumper sticker sentence phrases.  
 
Articles like the above go far in de-contextualizing the conflict and making the very presence of Islam the focal point for the reader.  The reader then concludes that this is the explanation for the violence and madness that is being reported.  Both are things that Mamdani has written and spoken on in detail.

Brotha Ciper wrote:  No. Im suggesting that reading up on that perspective makes for a more informed position on what the turmoil in Africa.

 

You mean...reading up on HIS perspective would be in YOUR opinion a more informed position on what the turmoil is in Africa. Is that what you're saying.

 

As a matter of fact, I don't have to read his commentary or views on Africa where its relates to Arabs....cuz I have my own. I have been a student of African Studies and World History probably many years you are old. I was one of the first students in college to take advantage of African courses offered(including classes about slavery from both slavers: Arabs and Europeans) which were mandated by law in the early 70s...which was a time when information about Africa was raw and unfiltered. So we got everything. It was quite overwhelming....but! Professors during that time...HAD to tell the truth. The whole truth and nothing but. And this was also during a period when many African countries were still under the hammer of colonialism. Apartiad[sp] was still very real in South Africa and many other nations.  And several Africa countries were about 500 years behind in time as a result. So the information on Africa and the middle east is not exclusive.  On the contrary[sp] my brotha. 

 

Define "Arab" and problems quickly arise with that statement and position.

 

Okay, Arab i.e. semites (a nomadic group) who originally derived from Western Asia. They migrated in several parts of North Africa as a result of their uprisiing in the 6th century. They are the first to bring slavery to Africa i.e. Arab Slave Trade and the main slavers to castrate 20 million African male slaves and to use African women as sex slaves/servants and wet nurses. They were also very instrumental in incorporating FGM as a custom to initiate women into a false form of womanhood aside from other human rights issue. No?  Would this be deemed "problems quickly arise"...? Or no? Cuz I do have more..but! I'll stop here.

 

Are you familiar with his work, or did you just google his bio (serious question not an insult)? He (along with quite a few others) are not only noted for their scholarship on the conflicts and history on the continent, but is also noted for the clear distinction he makes between colonial and non colonial "research and scholarship" that informs both public opinion and policy matters. There is a heavy media conflation of terms like Arab, Islamist, extremist, militant that draws attention away from actually learning what is going on and the history/context that lead up to what we read about today.

 

Heard of him....but! Never read his books or articles. However colleagues of mine have. Just for clarity....I am not insulted  by your question one bit cuz I know how to find out/research data I need to know. I have the tools to do so. It's called academic training. Also there has only been two terms to define what has happened to Africa: forced colonalization and forced arabization. No?  This makes colonialization on the European side ...and Arabization......Arab/Muslim/Islamic side. In addition, there are some Christians who are penned extremists, militants and the like by the media as well. So both groups continue to have a familiar/similar  parallel. No?

 

Black people in the the US take the conflated frame a step further in suggesting that "Arab and Chinese are the new white people and Africa better wake up and watch out". Strangely this echo's the statements uttered by H.R.C concerning Chinese involvement in Africa. That didn't go over too well for good reasons.

 

This isn't the first time Asians have been in Africa. They have been in and out of Africa as laborers/investors while both slave parties prohibit African natives to earn a living on their OWN land. This was done for YEARS. No?  It's just that China has become a highly visible power force and the other so-called powers are watching her every move.  But India is another country that has been in and out Africa....for years mainly as laborers, construction workers and railroad workers and even miners.  Traditionally foreigners are know to come to Africa and take jobs away from the natives who were/are forced to live in poverty conditions as a result of this outsourced practice. No?

Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:

 

Arabs are doing the exact same thing to Africa and Africans as Europeans did to this country and Native Americans.  

  
There is an unspoken assumption of who and what an Arab is, which is why I ask people to define it and think about it (whether or not you post it online).  What you posted is a popular notion, but problematic when you get into the colonial and cultural history of these region.  My position is much to nuanced for me to type out at the moment, though I can say that I do not accept the auto conflation of Arab with European or "fare skinned people from the Middle Eastern region".  Once you begin looking at some of the conflicts, you see non trivial instances where cultural invasion (i.e. Arabs coming in and imposing anything) simply doesn't exist. 
 
The original Arabs where/are very much Black (and very Dark at that).  This is no small matter when you trace how and why Black Africans self identify as Arab not by way of any forced or coerced "conversion".
 
We cannot avoid the implications of colonialism in Africa on today's conflicts any more than we can avoid the implication of American slavery on the US Black communities conflicts.  In addition to that, we have to get out of the habit of thinking everything can be summed up in 4 short bumper sticker sentence phrases.  
 
Articles like the above go far in de-contextualizing the conflict and making the very presence of Islam the focal point for the reader.  The reader then concludes that this is the explanation for the violence and madness that is being reported.  Both are things that Mamdani has written and spoken on in detail.

 

But what else am I to make of it when I look at Sudan, what's happening now in Niger, Mali?  Who are the people invading these countries and forcing their religious doctrines on these people?  How was it that Egypt ever became predominately non-Black?  Who is still enslaving Black Africans in the region?  Who is financing these invasions?  Who is slaughtering who?  How is it any different that what Europeans did to this country and Native Americans?  

 

It appears to me that the powers that be in Arab countries are using the "Islam" to play on the gullibility of Muslims in the region to go out and slaughter Black Africans in the "name of Islam" in order to continue encroaching into Africa.  I know that ALL of Africa was originally inhabited by Black people, until this type of thing began thousands of years ago, and it continues today as we witness it in real time, not just read about it as history.  The fact that the majority of Africans are Muslims is no coincidence of choosing, Islam was imposed on the ancestors of Africans centuries ago in this same way.

 

This is not an indictment on Islam, but on how the powers that be are using Islam to use people to do the dirty work of invasion, expansion of their territory, and stealing the land, natural resources, therefore, potential benefits and profits, from the rightful owners of the land.  This is the exact same way that Europeans were able to take this country from Native Americans, and force their religion, culture and destruction down the throats of Native Americans.    

 

 

Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:
Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:

But what else am I to make of it when I look at Sudan, what happening now in Niger, Mali?  Who are invading these countries and force their religious doctrines on these people?

 

 

 

That is my point.  The Sudan (for example) is not an issue of any "invasion" Arab or otherwise.  If you get the chance, check the following lectures/talks by Mamdani.  I cite him not because I think he's the only one qualified to speak on it, but he's one of few who can do so with the respect the subject deserves in a clear way.  **just to clarify Im referring to Arabization or Islam an invasion**

 

C-Span video is hard to embed---link below.  This has given at Howard University and has some VERY interesting insights on colonial schools of thought being promoted within African Universities as well as African/Arab identity.  I cannot recommend watching the C-Span lecture enough.

 

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/285331-1

 

Historical and cultural contextual around Darfur & Sudan. Lecture given at Columbia.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgB01or6dQg

 

 

The fact that the majority of Africans are Muslims is no coincidence of choosing, Islam was imposed on the ancestors of Africans centuries ago in this same.

 

The above is an oft repeated myth and untrue.   I agree that there are things done in the name of Islam that are not Islamic in nature by those who are Black Arab & African and non Black Arab's.  Dr Wesley Muhammad discusses some of the cultural conflation of Arab identity and Black Identity with what he calls and documents as the "Aryanization of Islam" which is related to this subject.    

 

Sista Sunnubian wrote:  The fact that the majority of Africans are Muslims is no coincidence of choosing, Islam was imposed on the ancestors of Africans centuries ago in this same.

 

  You are absolutely CORRECT my sista.  There's no myth or untruths here.  There are documents that cite clearly that the invasion of West Africa including Niger began in the early 7th and 8th centuries where FORCED conversions by Arab forces were implemented upon unwilling indigeous folks there.  This is the location where one of the main trade routes were and the rise of Islamic power emerge 100 years prior to spreading its power throughout their regents ultimately onto Africa's soil. 

 

As a matter of fact, you can go to ANY college library onshore or aboard and find what I am saying is TRUE.  I didn't make this up.  Have no reason.  It has been BLACK people who has been in the dark for centuries regarding their African history.  Everybody has else[who has benefitted from our ignorance] KNEW and has manipulated it.  Much like the renessance[sp] of Europe...when many parts of the continent plunged in the dark ages after the fall of Rome....they regain much of their knowledge of self through outside  sources which enabled them to put the pieces back together about their history and culture-which is the SAME exact thang that happened with us.  Just like with them, many other cultures kept records outside of "both African slavers" documenting what occurred in the past and a lot of 'em left "tangible" evidence as proof.  If not, we would STILL believe that Egyptians were originally Arabs and not Africans.  Some of us would STILL believe and not question man-made doctorates in religious form-which truly defies the law of nature.  And most importantly in regards to myths and lies....we would STILL believe that we are subhumans(born slaves to serve both masters i.e.)....inferior to Europeans and  Asians. We would STILL believe we are apes, gorillas and monkeys.   But!  We know better now.  We know it all has been LIES LIES and more lies to distract the truth in whatever academic or scholarly language PROJECTED...but!  It was all.... STILL a lie.

 

And now that the real truth have come out about these forementioned groups who have historically parasited off of us to acquire the power they have today- it is easy to see why they STILL wanna continue this "rhetorical distraction of the truth" especially pertaining to "US" i.e. blackfolks. Why?  Simple.  Power and CONTROL.   So.  When it comes to dismissing who we are in the natural sense of things devoid of the psychological dogma that has nothing whatsoever to do with breathing, sleeping, eating, raising children and doing the RIGHT thing (throughout Africa ) in terms of maintaining human RIGHTS for all[men, women and children]....I am ALWAYS suspicious of the motives.  Cuz it just may very well be their "TRUTH" and CLEARLY....not ours.   But! I'm.  Just. Sayin'        

Sista Sunnubian wrote:  But what else am I to make of it when I look at Sudan, what happening now in Niger, Mali?  Who are invading these countries and force their religious doctrines on these people?  How was it that Egypt ever became predominately non-Black?  Who is still enslaving Black African in the region?  Who is financing these invasions?  Who is slaughtering who?  How is it any different that what Europeans did to this country and Native Americans?  

 

  My sista you are on a roll.   Some folks just wanna ignore the obvious.  But!  Whenever there's oil discovered in certain parts of Africa...you gonna see Europeans and Arabs.  As is why I always say that Arabs/Muslims are doing their best to take over ALL of Africa.  Not so much to convert but to control the oil source.

 

And you are right....this is the SAME behavior pattern.  As I said above folks just wanna ignore the obvious.  Cuz they primarily don't wanna be "wrong" even though it may be the "right" way to go.   But!

Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:
Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:
Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:

But what else am I to make of it when I look at Sudan, what happening now in Niger, Mali?  Who are invading these countries and force their religious doctrines on these people?

 

 

 

That is my point.  The Sudan (for example) is not an issue of any "invasion" Arab or otherwise.  If you get the chance, check the following lectures/talks by Mamdani.  I cite him not because I think he's the only one qualified to speak on it, but he's one of few who can do so with the respect the subject deserves in a clear way.  **just to clarify Im referring to Arabization or Islam an invasion**

 

C-Span video is hard to embed---link below.  This has given at Howard University and has some VERY interesting insights on colonial schools of thought being promoted within African Universities as well as African/Arab identity.  I cannot recommend watching the C-Span lecture enough.

 

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/285331-1

 

Historical and cultural contextual around Darfur & Sudan. Lecture given at Columbia.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgB01or6dQg

 

 

The fact that the majority of Africans are Muslims is no coincidence of choosing, Islam was imposed on the ancestors of Africans centuries ago in this same.

 

The above is an oft repeated myth and untrue.   I agree that there are things done in the name of Islam that are not Islamic in nature by those who are Black Arab & African and non Black Arab's.  Dr Wesley Muhammad discusses some of the cultural conflation of Arab identity and Black Identity with what he calls and documents as the "Aryanization of Islam" which is related to this subject.    

 

 

 

 

Thanks for this information.

 

I really want to know what to make of what concerning the constant turmoil(s) happening in Africa.  We can't trust the Western media to always tell or show the truth, we can't trust historians to always write the truth.  But I will say that I see no great benefit of Islam or Christianity where Africans/Africa is concerned.

Originally Posted by sunnubian:
Thanks for this information.

 

I really want to know what to make of what concerning the constant turmoil(s) happening in Africa.  We can't trust the Western media to always tell or show the truth, we can trust historians to always write the truth.  But I will say that I see not great benefit of Islam or Christianity where Africans/Africa is concerned.

 

We cannot trust everything historians say either. Historical Revisionism is rampant. All of this propaganda goes every which way. None of these foreigners in Africa have clean hands. As Africans we need to stop allowing our religion dictate our politics. 

  I would go further to say that you CANNOT trust racist historians and racists anthropologists to tell the TRUTH in regards to African history.  They have always had a hidden agenda.  For example: (1) massa told the LIE that we were waiting for him to come to Africa to civilize us...not true.  (2)  massa told anothe LIE and said that the first man was derived from Asia  and then told another lie regarding the Piltdown man [a sick version of Frankenstein] which was quickly revealed as a hoax and here recently (the 4,001 lie) massa Bush told us that there was weapons of MASS destruction buried somewhere in Iraq...to launch war there.  Weapons were NEVER found. But he did he wanted:  get rid of Hussien[sp].  So again we have to look at the MOTIVES..not about them....but!  When it pertains to us coming from them,  The titles historians, anthropologists, scientists, scholars, academias, experts were CREATED by them to justify their so-called intelligents and brilliance.  But! By the law of nature and the universe we, African people,  NEVER had to title anything cuz "it" is what is and they STOLE "it" ALL from us through their ever revolving LIES and violence.   And for the life of me I don't why folks continue to take these people seriously[both slavers]...when it is evident what they truly want. Our extinction and land. Bottom line.  But!    

Originally Posted by Yemaya:
Originally Posted by sunnubian:
Thanks for this information.

 

I really want to know what to make of what concerning the constant turmoil(s) happening in Africa.  We can't trust the Western media to always tell or show the truth, we can trust historians to always write the truth.  But I will say that I see not great benefit of Islam or Christianity where Africans/Africa is concerned.

 

We cannot trust everything historians say either. Historical Revisionism is rampant. All of this propaganda goes every which way. None of these foreigners in Africa have clean hands. As Africans we need to stop allowing our religion dictate our politics. 

 

I agree.  However, we cannot continue to simply declare what is and isn't true based on suspicion--no matter how reasonable it is.  Either a  position can be substantiated by evidence (whether its good, bad or weak) or it cannot.  We as a people (as do others) have very good reasons to be suspicious of historians of various perspectives.  Having said that, that suspicion doesn't supersede the need to actually examine evidence and claims that may or may not fit an ideological belief we hold at a given moment.

 

Lets keep it 100

 

There are many who are justifiably outraged at things that happen, but remain ignorant of the subject beyond their own outrage.  Add this the difficulty of admitting or saying "I don't know..." to any question revolving around a situation and it becomes a bit clear how and why situations that do have explanations are clouded with myths, half truths and outright nonsense.  It could be the myth that raising taxes kills jobs or the myth of the Black welfare mother driving a Caddy.

Originally Posted by Yemaya:
Originally Posted by sunnubian:
Thanks for this information.

 

I really want to know what to make of what concerning the constant turmoil(s) happening in Africa.  We can't trust the Western media to always tell or show the truth, we can trust historians to always write the truth.  But I will say that I see not great benefit of Islam or Christianity where Africans/Africa is concerned.

 

We cannot trust everything historians say either. Historical Revisionism is rampant. All of this propaganda goes every which way. None of these foreigners in Africa have clean hands. As Africans we need to stop allowing our religion dictate our politics. 

 

I just went in and corrected my mistake, where I meant to type "can't trust historians to write the truth", not "can trust . . .

From what I have read so far regarding Mahmood Mamdani, it all sounds like political speak to me.  He is making statements that are not wholly true regarding Dufar/Africa/Arab and Islamic influence and religion in Africa.  He plays with the death rate in the conflict, then goes on to try to quantify his argument that the death rate (mass murders) includes people dying from illness, disease, starvation, etc., as if starvation is not a war tactic in and of itself, and as if dying from disease and starvation is not the direct result of war.  

 

He also tries to argue that race is not a factor, merely because of the fact that over the centuries Arabs have intermarried with Africans in the regions.  Like, so?  He then tries to paint a picture of Africans not becoming "Arabs"/Muslim by force by meshing those who chose voluntarily to be Muslim today (as if they have much of a choice in the matter), while completely not mentioning the fact that the only reason that is, is because their ancestors were forced by conquest to become Muslim or did as African Americans have did here, are people whose ancestors just took on the religion of the people that formally held them in slavery.  He continually tries to avert there not being any "genocide" or "racial/ethnic cleansing" by trying to make statements like "it's really about power and land rights, etc.; what else is genocide about?  Where one group tries to eliminate another group because of differences in race or ethnicity or religion, which is almost always done after the instigating group cannot convert the other group to their way of thinking, living, or religious beliefs, where the resulting booty of that group's land and natural resources was the ultimate goal in the first place.

 

It really seems that his true agenda was to dissolve the Save Dufar Campaign (which, by the way would have helped tremendously with the genocide of Sudanese, particularly Sudanese that were not Muslim).  

 

I'm just not feeling this guy as being trustworthy and free of any covert agenda on this subject.

 

"I'm just not feeling this guy as being trustworthy and free of any covert agenda on this subject."

I'd only suggest that you (and others) consider and look further into these perspectives.  They're much more nuanced than some of us are used to dealing with.  Its easy and tempting to reduces everything to 'good guys in this corner, evil doers in the other'.  The Save Darfur camp was caught misrepresenting numbers and inflating figures. 

 

Long story short, we all can be held responsible for being truthful with what we really do and don't know.

  I wanna say just SIX things on this issue and I'm through cuz otherwise it will be like beating a dead horse:

 

(1) The definition of a claim is beliefs or opinions that MAY be true or false. Therefore a legitimate claim can ONLY be true if it has PROVEN facts supporting the particular belief or opinion.  Having said that, everything that I have SAID throughout this discussion can be PROVEN[examination is not required cuz it has always been examined over and over and over again with the same unresolved conclusion] Also as a rule, whenever I don't know something....I just say it! I don't have to be RIGHT all the time. That's ridiculous. I am the first to say I don't KNOW everythang.  However as I said before there are those folks who would rather be RIGHT about  a "problem"  (just to appear knowledgeable of the dynamics) even though they know they are giving the WRONG solution-typical arrogant behavior. These folks are in one mindset....and one mindset only even though there are other options "available" to consider.  This is called stuck in stubborness. 

 

(2) I don't based my suspicions on whether or not somethng is true or not true, I base my suspicion on proven historical FACTS and BEHAVIOR patterns as evidence of intentions not a bunch of (again my FAVORITE term) "rhetorical distractions" from the truth. But! That's just me and how I roll with the god given gift  to process information cognitively. 

 

(3) There is a probablity that raising taxes can lose jobs as well as the probably of a welfare mother driving a caddy-I've seen both with my own eyes. So where is the myth?  If the chances are 00000000.1% that both can happen then that dismisses the myth.

 

(4) Speaking for myself....I can not be outraged about things I know nothing about. If so, I would one ANGRY person for no reason. That's why I read read read and reject circular projection of thoughts and reasonings.  Cuz I have found those concepts to be nonproductive, insensitive and inhumane. I don't waste my brain power exploring the same old ancient backward propaganda that has nothing to do with implementing the quality of life for all living people. It's "slavery" of the mind to do so.

 

(5) I am not intimated by political spins, outrageous claims, hidden insults cuz I not only think different but have a CLEAR mind of my own. I am unique.  And I care less about fitting into a dogma/theory that has proven to snatch away the human rights of others.  But! That's just how I see things.

 

(6) And lastly..... as a teacher and advocate for black people throughout my community and beyond, I see what total ignorance of one's culture can destroy and tarnish. I see the pain in the eyes of children just here in the states-where their own kind contributes to their despair.  So I can just IMAGINE the helplessness in many parts of Africa as a result of their own people unwilling betrayal and the unsubstantial wrath of foreigners' invasion and encroachment in their homeland.  But, it is my belief that we as African Americans here are the chosen ones to bring PEACE back into our homeland.  We have proven to be the foot soldiers of civil/human rights cuz of what we accomplished in this country in merely 400 years...compared to our peoples' 1400 year legacy of social imprisonment in Africa...it is up to us to help free them... but! This cannot be done as long as we are willing listeners of other folks spin about who we are in relations to natives in Africa.  Cuz we are the same people.  Cuz even in Niger slavery still exist.  As a matter of fact, many natives throughout Africa are STILL treated like animals, subhumans...and that's WRONG.  Therefore it's important to keep the focus cuz what is going on there is a thin line of what can happen here with us in America.   

 

So pardon me if I REFUSE to go for the okey dok. The nonsense.  Folks can say what they want.  I really don't give a ##@**.  I got my EYES wide open. Cuz unfortunately here on this board, it seems we continue to discuss different African countries experiencing the SAME centuries-old injustice plaguing this continent.. .i.e. Libya, Egypt, Rwanda, Algeria, Sudan, Nigeria, Niger, Ethiopia, Somilia, Liberia, South Africa, Angola, Sudan, etc. while each country's representatives continue to be deep in political denial of what is really going on or know what has been going on but refuse to see it to do anything tangible about it or do not have the power to do anything about it.  As why there are so many uprisings appearing throughout Africa. Cuz people ARE tired and want to be treated fairly and as humans. This is a fact, not a claim.  A truth.  Any argument outside of this is really besides the point.  Hey I know my perspective and how I see life are  not popular by some or even most.  But it is what it is.  Cuz Africa is my reality and truth. Roll your eyes if you want but it doesn't change a thang. Just sayin.   But!

 





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