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Nearly 4,000 Treated For Female Genital Mutilation In London

Posted: 03/20/2014 1:50 pm EDT Updated: 03/20/2014 3:59 pm EDT
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Nearly 4,000 women and girls have been hospitalized in London for female genital mutilation since 2009, according to figures obtained by the BBC.

The revelations come as Britain grapples with how to halt FGM, which involvesremoving parts of a women's genitalia for non-medical reasons, according to the World Health Organization. Studies estimate that some 66,000 British women and girls are victims of genital mutilation, according to the Britain's National Society For the Prevention Of Cruelty To Children.

FGM is illegal in the U.K. but no one in the country has been prosecuted for the practice since 1985. Experts note that FGM survivors are often vulnerable young women who may be reluctant to give evidence against older relatives.


London mayor Boris Johnson is backing proposals to crack down on FGM, the BBC reported. "It's time to stop being so nervous, so gingerly and hesitant. This is something that is absolutely intolerable in a place like London," the mayor said.


According to London's Evening Standard, one legal reform under consideration wouldhold parents legally responsible for protecting their children from mutilation. A 17-year-old anti-FGM campaigner, Fahma Mohamed, has won national attention after her online petition to improve education about FGM gathered some 250,000 signatures, The Guardian reported.

Campaigner Fahma Mohamed and other students in a rap video slamming FGM, produced by pro-equality charity Integrate Bristol and British newspaper The Guardian.


According to the BBC report, one London hospital treated 795 FGM patients between 2009 and 2013. The hospital said six of them were still under the age of 18, and just eight had been born in the U.K.


The NSPCC notes that FGM is prevalent in at least 28 African countries, as well as parts of the Middle East and Asia. The charity explains that a wide range of social and cultural reasons are given for the practice, including "the mistaken belief it enhances fertility and makes childbirth safer for the infant."


Mohamed, the teen anti-FGM campaigner, is urging Britain to wake up to the prevalence of female genital mutilation in the country and speak out.

"FGM, like all forms of abuse, is everybody's business, regardless of race, gender or religion," she wrote in a recent blog post.

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  This let you know that FGM is still alive and cracking. In this day and age.  The mistreatment has NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO RELIGION but every thing to do with the SLAVE MINDSET that continues to decay inside of the hearts and minds of black people in those areas where Arab Slave Trade conquered the innocents.  And to be clear?    This savage technique?  Is part of what the slavers did to cattel and chattel alike.  Cuz WHOSE god in its RIGHT mind would even ALLOW a piece of a human being called men to CUT the most precious and tender part of a female GOD created?  And a part crucial to giving life in the world?  Now does that make ANY kind of sense?  Hell no.  I would say more but yall heard it all before and I'm not gonna revisit it cuz all it will do is piss me off even more. 


And just cuz these women are in another country doesn't mean the rope of the slavery mentality has let go of them.  Oh hell no. It follows them whervever they go.  Cuz why?  Massa done good.    The culture is already BRAINWASHED into thinking that it's all about the MAN with no regard to the women and children that FGM continues to affect.  This is the SICK barbaric backwards ass angst of the slavers who STILL wanna maintain control over the natives and it is kept in check because of the innate fear the village tribe elders have who continue to believe in that massa slave shyte  Yes it was beat into them.  It was CUT into them to THINK it's a part of their lives but it isn't and they are too scared to let go of it and this is killing and pyschologically maiming the future generation of females born into that way of LIFE.  Unfortunately in 2014, massa's invisible hold on the psych and spiritual genetics of Africans is as STRONG as ever.  Pitiful.  As why I become soooooooo angry at African Americans in this country who could do AMAZING things not only for us here but aboard.  But do they?  Nawl...they are too busy fighting each other and killing each other to look even up and see what is currently  occurring to our people no matter they may reside.  .The sword continues to follow.  But! .  

Last edited by Kocolicious

The way I see it, America and all other Western countries should write language into their immigration and naturalization policies and requirements that strictly forbid these practices under threat of imprisonment and deportation.  


It is not enough to just ask people to refrain from practices they have engaged in for centuries, they have to be forced to stop. Westerners cannot go into certain foreign countries without women covering there heads, all foreigners need to know that they cannot come America and other western nation and practice FMG.  


Precise laws need to be written and strictly enforced and those caught violating these laws should be considered a Rapist and a Sexual Predator. Any foreigners that do not agree or refuse to comply, needs to stay the hell in their own country, period.



  Exactly my sista!  But the key word that KEEP countries from doing this?  RE. LI. GI. ON.  i.e. slave book!  Which each country HIDES behind.  And the only difference between massa from the new world and massa from the rest of the slave world?  European massa NEEDED their slaves to have ALL their body parts in check in order for them to work the fields.  Can't work if you constantly focused on your castrated penis or mutilated vagina.  How can one concentrate and MOVE all those crops at the same time?


So since the other massa focus was primarily SEXUAL and's easy to see how they were SERIOUS about making sure that slaves did not ENJOY one ounce of enslaved life-it was all about taking care of massa arab and his harem flock.  And since he has OIL...he can continue this form of barbaric savage method for another thousands of years.  Plus it's a reason why he created a LAW that forces women to cover up from head to toe[and I'm not gonna revisit that issue either cuz I've said it many times before].


So as I said in another thread.,,it's gotta happen from the inside out....first.  Appointed elderly women in various African villages has to KNOW that it is not right to cut the vaginas of the young females born in their township.  But it's gonna be HARD to convince them cuz these women not only get money but have a high-status reputation in a world where women are not even considered citizens.  It has to also start with changing the minds or myth of MEN...who says having relations with an uncircumsized woman is dirty and nasty. wanna know what's dirty and nasty?   A lot of men who don't wash their ass.  Now that's funky. Or having the hood of the clitorIs touch the tip of the man's penis will cut it off?  Is short of ridiculous folklore.  But what they should KNOW is the truth!  That removing an important of a woman's anatomy or any part of her sexual organs for that matter is CRIMINAL.   And against the god they claim to worship.  So just in Christian churches where you have to ALLOW priests to have sex with women.....otherwise they are gonna continue molesting young boys and sometimes little have to EDUCATE those folks who are so wrapped up in this religious bullshyte that they can't see that they have been bamboozled by both massa's since slavery-out of JEALOUSY AND GREED.  And eradicating FGM from the inside out [by people themselves] is the ONLY way to stamp it out of civilization-cuz like children-folks see what you DO and model after that....NOT what you SAY.  But!

Last edited by Kocolicious

FGM is not a religious practice. It is a cultural one, predating the arrival of Islam and Christianity. I've read both the Bible and the Koran. There is nothing in these books that state girls have to undergo this procedure, either implicitly or explicitly. These books (including the Torah) do, however, state that male infants should undergo circumcision (removal of the foreskin). The reason has to do with cleanliness. Anyone who makes the claim that FGM is an Islamic or Christian practice is a liar. Anyone who uses either religion (through deliberate misinterpretation or re-interpretation) as a means to promote or encourage FGM is a lying hypocrite. 


To often, when FGM is mentioned, the focus is on African women (usually those who also happen to be Muslim). The fact is that this practice is not only practiced in Africa but is also practiced in parts of the Middle East, parts of Asia, South America (by a few indigenous tribes), and Australia (by a few Aborigine tribes).


Here is an interesting and very informative read on FGM from the perspective of a Kono (Sierra Leone) woman who underwent the procedure (Bundu initiation). The majority of the Kono people are neither Muslim nor Christian.


Rites and Wrongs: An Insider/Outsider Reflects on Power and Excision


Even though I personally don't agree with the practice of FGM, I do believe we need to take utmost care to avoid viewing this practice through the lens of Western ideology or the Western mindset. We desperately need to unite with our people all over the world. Allowing a cultural practice to divide us will get us nowhere. United we stand; divided we remain oppressed and exploited.


It was only coincidental to the fact that FMG was just not a practice or one they were not familiar with outside of Africa, and because they had no reason to even bother with it if they were, that Black women held in the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade were spared this subhuman, beastly, tortuous, brutalization and mutilation.  


Of course it is Religions that are keeping this practice alive and are responsible for people continually trying engage in this sadistic, sexist practice outside of Africa and the Middle-East.  


But the main reason that this practice is still existing outside of its countries of origin and is still being carried out in America and in Europe, is because the majority of the victims are Black women and girls or other non-White women and girls.  


Since this crude, savage, sadistic practice is being done primarily to Black women and girls or other non-White women and girls, it means no more in predominately White society and/or countries like America or Great Briton, than all the Trayvons Martins and Marissa Alexanders, and Kendrick Johnsons and Jerhans [the little 17 year old facing 35 years in prison for purchasing a soda with a stolen credit card] does.    

I've been reading more about FGM. There are four types. Type 3 is the worse or the extreme form that leaves a woman or girl unrecognizable 'down there.' In some cases, FGM takes place in a medical facility or clinic (sterilized instruments, anesthetics, etc.). Of course, in other cases, it is done in a completely non-sterilized setting using inappropriate instruments. 


The greatest outcry of FGM appears to be in places where there has been a partial or complete adoption of Western values or culture. Females who come from societies or cultures where FGM is practiced and who have partially or fully adopted Western values are generally against the continuation of this practice. It doesn't make any sense for parents to move from Ethiopia to the USA, for example, raise their daughter in the USA and then expect or force her to undergo a procedure she finds horrifying. Parents who move from countries that practice FGM to Western countries should not force their daughters, who have adopted Western culture as their own (either in full or in part), to undergo the procedure. It is wrong.


Then there are the women and girls who live in countries where FGM is widely practiced. Many of them have no problem with this practice. From their point of view, there is nothing wrong with it. It is part of their culture. They don't understand why the West doesn't understand their point of view. From their perspective, the West is trying to destroy their culture by forcing its values onto them. In their view, it is another example of Western Imperialism.


From my point of view, where FGM is the norm, I believe they should perform it only on consenting adult females, not force it on a woman or girl who does not want it. It definitely should only be done in a medical facility. The extreme form of FGM (Type 3) should be made a criminal offense. Completely destroying a woman's genitals (leaving just a hole) is morally wrong. If they insist on doing this to women then they should do it to men, too. Let's say, all men above the age of 20.  


Fuambai Ahmadu (the woman who wrote the article that is mentioned in my previous post) made some valid points. FGM has been a practice in matriarchal and patriarchal societies. 


Westerners are horrified when we hear that some FGM is performed by men. However, we forget that men practice gynecology in Western nations, including the USA. Personally, I believe men have no business being that involved in women's privates no matter what country they are in but that's me.


Then we have to ask ourselves this question: How is cosmetic gynecology (practiced in the West) that much different from FGM? Is it because it is done in a nice sanitized medical facility? Is it because some women want it (like some women in countries that practice 'cosmetic gynecology' have no problem with it); even though, there is no real health benefit? Personally, I think this practice is insane and is the Western version of FGM (Type 4)...with full consent and lots of money exchanged. Cosmetic gynecology should only be done on women whose genitals are truly deformed or have been mutilated. 


Cosmetic Gynecology


Again, I don't agree with the practice of FGM. From my perspective, it can cause more harm than good (women and girls have died because of it) and it has no real health benefit. At the same token, I can not honestly condemn FGM while giving 'cosmetic gynecology' a pass. That would be hypocritical.


Last edited by EarthAndSky

Cosmetic Gynecology


Again, I don't agree with the practice of FGM. From my perspective, it can cause more harm than good (women and girls have died because of it) and it has no real health benefit. At the same token, I can not honestly condemn FGM while giving 'cosmetic gynecology' a pass. That would be hypocritical.



FMG and 'cosmetic gynecology' are no where near the same things.  First, being, that any 'cosmetic gynecology' is done with the patients consent and in a hygienic environment by a trained, licensed surgeon.  Second, 'cosmetic gynecology' does not destroy a woman's natural vagina and leave her in a position where it highly possible that she cannot give birth naturally or at all and lead to enormously high infant mortality rates and high instances of the woman afterward not being able to hold or control in any way her on urine and bowels to where may of these women/young girls are left with uncontrollable urine and bowel flow.  


Another thing that 'cosmetic gynecology' does not do is literally amputate women's natural vaginal parts, which is exactly what FMG does.


As a woman, I am absolutely AGAINST FMG, cultural practice or religious beliefs or not.


This practice was started and still continues only for the precise purpose of rendering women unable to have sexual pleasure, period.  


Centuries of social conditioning, brainwashing and lies is the only reason women in these countries, cultures and religions actually continue to go along with this barbaric practice.  


They are under the same centuries of brainwashing, social conditioning and lies many of the Slaves were under on the Slave Plantation of America.


Slavery was a system ingrained into the slaves' psyche over generations and centuries, to the point that when they were told they were now free, many refused to leave their master, many were afraid to leave their master, many were afraid that they could not make off the plantation, many were afraid that what was off the plantation was far worse that what was on the plantation, and many truly loved their master, many were threatened to not leave.  


FMG is the exact same thing.  

FGM is not a religious practice. It is a cultural one, predating the arrival of Islam and Christianity. I've read both the Bible and the Koran


  My sista...I disagree slightly.  Cuz it isn't a religious practice per is a SLAVE practice.  Before I continue I must tell you that I don't believe in ANY of the slaves book i.e. Quran, Bible or the Talmud.  In my view, those were written by MEN to control don't believe it!  Now that's out the way.  


The reason I disagree slightly is because FGM and castration were mainly used by the slavers who enslaved Africans to control their sexual appetite during the selling and trading of them. Everywhere the Arab conqueror went, FGM and castration were to follow.  The slave books are to justify it because the holder of each book were implementing slave techniques and methods to ensure that they get their money's worth.


No God I know of would allow another human being called "man" to detach something GOD created.  I mean why put it there if you gonna WHACK it off?  A logical god wouldn't put it there in the first place, if it were to be brutally torn away from the is NOT a placenta.  It is something attached to the female body that has a specific FUNCTION. Unlike the foreskin on a man's can remove it and doesn't affect his sexuality ONE BIT![Plus for hygenic purposes it's removed but African men were ALWAYS clean and so circumcison only became practice with the introduction of religion]  


See?  I have to keep it real.  The whole purpose of FGM is to RESTRICT the woman from having an organism while the slaver is abusing little boys [and some little girls] ANALLY.    I didn;t wanna go there...but!  I'm about sharing what I know and it's up to those to either accept or reject it.  FMG is a form of control over a woman's body.  Now why would i believe ANY man who claims that it is culture when the SAME man is marrying little girls as young as 4 years old and is HAVING sex with them i.e. child brides?  Cuz wherever FGM is, child bride is implemented in the custom...FOR MEN...not women.  So how are you...a grown ass MAN gonna marry an infant?  But that's what they do and then they have the NERVE to have sex with these babies ..and SAY...listen to this...and say they don't want a girl UNLESS she is cut/mutilated..knowing the sexual deflowering is a painful process.  Now that is NOT culture.  That sick.  Disgusting.  Cruel.  And the role of a pedophile .  


Most places where FGM thrives....the "culture" is muslim.  The higher the percentage of muslims....the higher the rate of FGM in that region.  I mean I can give numbers but I dont wanna it's easy to look up.  I'm just saying slaves were treated like cattle...and you know what they do to bulls?  Why would ANY human that to another human being based on culture, custom, tradition and RELIGION?  Now they can talk all day long that it isn't a religion practice...but!  I betcha a dime against a donut that WHEREVER you find FGM, the islamic custom/tradition is RIGHT around the corner.  And if customs are "practiced" in Judah and Christianity, there is no FGM unless there is a fusion of eastern christanity and tribalism.  And the tribalism will have a history of Arab influence.   


Now castration is different.  Castration was part of guerrilla warfare and used primarily on prisoners of war.  China, Japan, and other Asian countries utilized this method to control the men they captured.  However, since homosexuality was an intricate part of Japan/China....well in many parts of eastern would castrate themselves to be a high ranking officers in the military and government.  It is said that the castrated Asian was considered in high honor and regard.  So what the hell was going on with the women?  Well they weren't participating in FGM, but they were foot binding them-which didn't allow these women to walk properly and sometimes not at all. The bottom line....the women weren't considered as recognized humans..they dismissed as merely servants.....again they had no rights.


 My point?  Men always wanna hide by "some" religion to do fock up things to women.  And then when they are called on it, they say "oh it not a religion practice, it is a custom."  I say BULLSHYTE.  Cuz with a castrated man, he knows what his role will be sexually.  And it is the same with FGM women.  They still have sex [those who do secretly] but not vaginally.  So are you picking up what I'm putting down?  Don't believe me? Do the research and come back and let's talk.  Cuz girlfriend that's what the whole FGM deal is about. And in this day and age it should have been eradicated at the end of slavery.  Because historically the Arab slavers have been doing this African women and their OWN women[in harems] for thousands of years.  And they're right!  Is not a religious is a SLAVE practice that evolved into custom mandated by the religion in rule.  See?  You can't have it both ways.  Yet these monsters seem to think they can as why they do not want cameras or pictures to show how they really LIVE!  Cuz it would SHOCK the so-called civilized world.  And they know they ain't right...cuz they are molesting children and enslaving women. Just in about Iraq how they are trying to make it LAW to marry girls six years old and under.  Under?  Six years old?   How can ANY god be involved in something so sick and horrific as that?  But!


Last edited by Kocolicious

I found this document on UNICEF's site. It is comprehensive and includes statistics. It's a PDF and can be saved directly to your computer to read at your leisure (about 200 pages).




The document is clearly written with the goal to educate (via facts, not hysteria or judgement). Much of the information I encountered online about FGM/C has been very judgmental. I bristle when people (especially whites pretending to be concerned about women and girls in Africa but have no concern for Black women and girls in the USA and other Western nations) refer to my people (regardless of where they are on this planet), either implicitly or explicitly, as primitive, savage or barbaric. It's one thing to disagree; it's another thing to judge. Western countries engage in practices that others (in other countries) would find 'savage' or 'barbaric' such as the porn industry, the school-to-prison pipeline, or abortion. It's hypocritical for Western nations to condemn other nations for human rights abuse but then turn a blind eye on human rights abuse going in their own damn backyards!


I also noticed that on many (Western) sites, condemning FGM/C, that they have no qualms about posting photos of women and girl's genitals before and after FGM/C. These are black African women and girls. These sites say that they are concerned about African women and girls but don't see anything wrong with exploiting them and showing their privates off to the entire world. This is how they view us, as animals, with no right to modesty. If FGM/C was a practice in European countries, they wouldn't dare post the genitals of white women and girls on their websites! FGM/C is practiced in Iraq, too, but I didn't see any photos of Iraqi women and girls' genitals on their websites. We need to question their motive. Is it true concern or is there an ulterior motive? Western meddling has always been to the detriment of African nations


Finally, from Fuambai Ahmadu, who actually experienced FGM/C herself...


In my opinion, if eradication has become an irreversible "international" political compulsion, then the idea of "ritual without cutting" (see Chapters 1 and 12 of this volume) seems to be a reasonable middle ground. The ritual without cutting model positively values many cultural aspects and beliefs underlying female genital operations and initiation while attempting to eliminate the actual physical cutting. Perhaps what is needed to replace the physical act of cutting is an equally dynamic symbolic performance that will retain the same fluidity in associated meanings eschewal of masculinity, womanhood, fertility, equality, hierarchy, motherhood, and sexual restraint. However, for rural Kono women in particular, the "cutting" and "medicine" are all important. Also, as I discussed earlier, "ritual without cutting" can be very dangerous when taken out of context, such as in the recruitment and "training" of child rebels in Kono.


I continue to support, however, the goal of medicalizing and modernizing initiation and "circumcision" not necessarily in a full sense of institutionalizing female "circumcision" or transferring the practice from the "bush" to hospitals, as in male circumcisions today, because this would reduce the power and authority of female ritual leaders and female elders but rather by making available basic, modern hygienic equipment and medications to traditional officials to use during rituals. I support change that will promote safe, sanitary environments, so that initiates are given adequate, modern medical assistance to reduce pain and the risk of infection. The position that this only legitimizes the practice is dangerously arrogant: the practice is already seen as legitimate by its proponents, who have themselves undergone excision, and denying them the benefits of medicalization only continues to endanger the health and lives of innocent young girls.


Modernization should also include impartial, neutral education within primary and secondary schools." Such education should detail both the positive historical and cultural significance of initiation/"circumcision" as well as its possible negative health effects. The emphasis should be on preparing young girls to make informed choices about their futures and the futures of their own female children.


What direction individual women take should be left to them and their immediate family members. Just as much as diehard "traditionalists" must relinquish their insistence that uncircumcised women are not socially and culturally "women" and therefore must be denied legal rights and dignity within society, hard line efforts by abolitionists to coerce women to reject the practice and to stigmatize those who uphold their ancestral traditions as "illiterate," "backward," and against "women's rights" and "progress" are unacceptable. In this "debate," the majority of "circumcised" African women are unfortunately caught between a rock and a hard place, as the adage goes: either break traditional customary laws and face the consequences of "not belonging" or ignore increasing efforts to ban the practice and face possible legal penalties instigated by eradicators at the national and international level. Today, it seems that the pressure on "circumcised" African women, educated or not, is to choose between these two extremist positions to be either "anticulture" or "antiprogress."


Change may indeed be occurring gradually, but I do not believe this is necessarily a direct result of anti FGM campaigning. In my grandmother's days, excision was a universal rite of passage. For my educated, Christian mother who has spent over thirty years in the United States, initiating her daughters was a matter of judgment, an expedient choice to enable us to navigate easily between worlds. My generation is faced with a dramatically different and greater complexity of issues and other priorities (i.e., the complete destruction of Kono through civil war), and as a result, initiation and excision can hardly be said to be the most pressing preoccupation of young, contemporary Kono women. In the event that I ever have a daughter, I would like her to be well informed about the sociocultural and historical significance of the operation as well as its purported medical risks so that she can make up her own mind, as I had the opportunity to do. Regarding female initiation and "circumcision" in Africa, John Mbiti has noted: "If they are to die out, they will die a long and painful death" (Mbiti 1990:129). However, through more culturally sensitive and appropriate "education" as well as limited medicalization strategies, the "death" of female "circumcision" could be more gradual, more natural, and a lot less painful for millions of future African women and girls. 


To Cut or Not to Cut?


I don't agree with the practice of FGM/C but I was also born and raised in the USA. If I were a Djibouti woman, for example, I would most likely see nothing wrong with this practice. 

I don't agree with the practice of FGM/C but I was also born and raised in the USA. If I were a Djibouti woman, for example, I would most likely see nothing wrong with this practice


 I can see this is the difference between you and me.  Cuz the first thing that comes to my mind is:  how can ANY woman [I'm sorry] in her RIGHT mind say she DON'T see anything WRONG with this practice?  When number's a SLAVE method to eradicate sexual desire in females who have a RIGHT to have sexual desire.  Number 2 this practice CUTS the woman's/girl's VAGINA [1-4 techniques] and sew the vagina up sooooooooooooo tight that only little drops of pee [and the unmentionable] can only get through which can often cause bladder infections, horrible period aromas due to trapped blood inside the body and most times these women/girls cannot vaginally give birth to child.  That's crazy cuz the way the woman's BODY is designed?  Its sole function 95% of the time is to give birth vaginally..A man HASN'T a thang to do with that.  Oh hell no.


Additionally there are FGM women who walk 10 miles to hospitals so that they can get a c-section because they cannot GIVE birth vaginally. And number 2-this is somebody ELSE'S BODY being CUT on and including INFANT girls with unsantized[sp] razors, glass, knives.  And by the way, there is NO  sociocultural and historical significance in mutilating a woman/girl's VAGINA.  That is a focking LIE!!!!!  Who ever said that is BRAINWASHED into believing that sickos have a RIGHT to castrate another human being's body part based on a backward primitive savage dogma.  Bottom line.  


And saying if you were Djibouti woman MEANS nothing.  Over 30 countries In Africa participates in this barbaric crime  against women as a result of the Arab slavers.  What sane woman can justify this?  Only an out of touch stupid monster ass cunt.  And only a person who has her WHOLE and FULL vagina intact without PAIN, shame or vaginal deformity...would  buy into this.    Cuz why?  First she can't feel the pain these FGM women feel when she goes to the bathroom,  Secondly she doesn't feel the pain these FGM women feels when she's having sex AND she can bust a nut along with mate.  And lastly but most importantly she has her coochie.  But what she doesn't HAVE is empathy and COMPASSION for the FGM women who continues to suffer.  Men are doing this to these innocent women/girls. And they are using their power and authority for thousands of years to implement this butchery.


Trust and believe if men were getting their penises CUT off based on the foolish religious notion or cultural belief that it is much cleaner [safer] for the women's comfort and that it control's men sexuality...and for the purpose of removing/controlling their sexuality alone would have them running to the hills.  And it is this thought process that is ONE of the main reasons why I will NEVER believe in a God who allows FGM to happen.  No god does this...only SICK men and the women who want to stay in their good graces.  They are hypocrites!  Monsters.  Cuz REAL freedom also means free from mutilation.  And the sole owner of one's body.  But!



BTW:  My anger in calling a supporter of FGM a cunt isn't directed toward anyone here on this board it is a hypothetical statement.  So please don't think that I am talking about anyone here cuz I am not.  I just want to make that CLEAR.   



Last edited by Kocolicious

 Oh I forgot...and for the FGM women who condole this method?  Is it because they have been BRAINWASHED to believe it is NORMAL.  It is all they know.  But it is WRONG WRONG WRONG.  Just like SLAVERY is wrong...and really it is a slavery of the body if you think about it.  And no one has a right to control another person's body or body part. No matter what god is telling them it's okay.  It is just straight out uncivilized to do so.  And that's the bottom line.  But!

Well, I don't agree with FMG and it IS Savage and Barbaric, as well as sexists and mental, emotional and social enslavement and brutal rape of women and girls.



That's all it is regardless to what the women who have been socially conditioned for centuries to believe it is or how many and how long they have been socially conditioned to accept it.  




Exactly!  My sista  Exactly.  I was so applaud at hearing a woman justify this I guess I just ran out of words.  But you said it very exact and to the point.  social enslavement...that's a good description.  This reminds of those woman simps who work for pimp traffikkers[sp] who kidnap young women and girls and forced them into prostiution-another form of slavery.  It's probably more of better them than me mindset.  But!  Mothers?  Sisters?  All doing this to one another?  It sickens me.  Where is the god given common sense?  I don't care if they are in a world 500 years behind in time....common sense is TIMELESS.  


This also reminds me of Fiddler in Roots who had accepted his enslavement to the point where he had created a reputation he enjoyed with massa. Have we become so numb that we cannot feel for our OWN people....across the Atlantic Ocean?   Are we as women so absorbed in the web of fake european acceptance [their definition of beauty and worth] that in order to belong?  We turn our heads at the oozing wound of FGM?  Then if that's the case?  We are ALL guilty of afflicting this barbaric slave method to innocent women and children in our homeland.  Absolutely.  Great points my sista!   But!

Religion and FGM/C


Facts from a credible source: UNICEF


(from page 69):

FGM/C is often seen to be somehow connected to Islam, a view that is perhaps unsurprising given the frequency with which it is practised by many Muslim African groups. However, not all Islamic groups practise FGM/C, and many non-Islamic groups do. Gruenbaum has emphasized that followers of all three monotheistic religions – Christianity, Judaism and Islam – “have at times practised female circumcision and consider their practices sanctioned, or at least not prohibited, by God.”[121]


Despite the fact that FGM/C predates the birth of Islam and Christianity and is not mandated by religious scriptures, the belief that it is a religious requirement contributes to the continuation of the practice in a number of settings. As illustrated in the previous section and confirmed by ethnographic studies, in certain settings FGM/C is widely held to be a religious obligation.[122] Tables 6.2 and 6.3 show that in countries such as Guinea, Mali and Mauritania, significant proportions of women and men reported that FGM/C is required by their religion. This is often closely linked to the response of cleanliness/hygiene, since FGM/C has become understood in some Muslim communities to be a cleansing rite that enables women to pray in a proper manner.[123]




(from page 70)

A great deal of effort by scholars and activists has concentrated on demonstrating a lack of scriptural support for the practice. In 

Egypt, for example, the most authoritative condemnation of FGM/C in Islam to date is the 2007 fatwa (religious edict) issued by the Al-Azhar Supreme Council of Islamic Research, explaining that FGM/C has no basis in Sharia (Islamic law) or any of its partial provisions, and that it is a sinful action that should be avoided. Several regional and national fatwas have followed in the years since, with the original statement as their basis.[124] In Sudan, a national campaign is working to promote the positive association of Islam to saleema, a term identified and widely promoted to describe a happy, healthy girl who is uncut, as God made her.[125] In Senegal, religious leaders have played an important role in publicly addressing the practice, confirming that FGM/C is not sanctioned anywhere in Islam or the Koran and violates a woman’s dignity.[126] However, because religious beliefs often existalongside other social norms surrounding FGM/C, the lack of clear scriptural dictates does not automatically cause religious motivation for the practice to diminish.




Studies among Mandinga and Somali immigrants in Europe have shown that exposure to a broader Islamic community in which FGM/C is not often practised caused many to question the link between tradition and religion, and to become ambivalent or opposed to the continuation of FGM/C.[129]


Easter eggs and rabbits; Santa Claus and his reindeer; mistletoe; Christmas trees, ornaments, wreaths; and celebrating the birth of Jesus on December 25th, etc., have nothing to do with Christianity or Jesus but everything to do with paganism but many Christians actually believe these are all part of religious practice and belief


It is important to understand that when a people accepts a new religion (either willingly or unwillingly), those people do not completely discard long-held traditions or practices. Instead those long-held traditions become intertwined or woven into the new religion. 


Fact: Neither the European nor the Arab slave trade was the originator of the practice of FGM/C. Neither encouraged or promoted this practice. There is no evidence that I could find that supports the claim that FGM/C is rooted in slavery. If you have found a credible source that refutes this then please provide it.


The sub-Saharan black African females who were abducted by either Arabs or European slavers, depending on their age, had already experienced FGM/C prior to being captured...if they were captured from a country where FGM/C was practiced. For those women who were captured, the practice of FGM/C ended with them. Their descendants did not undergo the procedure. There is no record of female slaves in this country being forced to undergo FGM/C by their slave masters. 


The European slave traders abducted and brought black Africans to the Americas, Caribbeans, and parts of Europe. Before the Trans-Atlantic slave trade became a booming business, Arab slave traders often brought abducted black Africans to Saudi Arabia, where the slaves remained. For those slaves, FGM/C ended as soon as they stepped foot on Arabian soil. Although Saudi Arabia, today, oppresses its women (due to male chauvinistic neanderthal thinking), FGM/C is neither prevalent or practiced there (unless in secret).


If you are an extremist, you would say that slavery did those women a favor.


Note: Arab slavers not only abducted females from Africa but also from India, China, Greece, and Sweden, to name a few.


Last edited by EarthAndSky

Laws and FGM/C


Facts from a credible source: UNICEF


From page 8 and Table 2.1 on page 9:

Twenty-six countries in Africa and the Middle East have prohibited FGM/C by law or constitutional decree. Two of them – South Africa and Zambia – are not among the 29 countries where the practice is concentrated (see Table 2.1). With the exception of Guinea and the Central African Republic, where bans on FGM/C were instituted in the mid-1960s, the process of enacting legislation or revising the criminal code to outlaw the practice began to take hold in Africa quite recently. Legislation prohibiting FGM/C has also been adopted in 33 countries on other continents, mostly to protect children with origins in practising countries.[29]


In Burkina Faso, fines can be levied not only against
practitioners of FGM/C, but also against anyone who knows
that the procedure has been performed and fails to report it.[31]
In 2011, Kenya expanded the 2001 ban on FGM/C among
minors to apply to adult women and added an extraterritoriality
clause, extending restrictions to citizens who commit the
crime outside the country’s border.[32] Reports of prosecution
or arrests in cases involving FGM/C have been made in several
African countries, including Burkina Faso and Egypt.[33]


From page 12...

In Egypt (2006-2007): 

The Ministry of Health issues Decree No. 271, banning everyone, including health professionals, from performing FGM/C in governmental or nongovernmental hospitals and clinics. The Grand Mufti Ali Gomaa issues a fatwa (religious edict) condemning FGM/C, and the Al-Azhar Supreme Council for Islamic Research issues a statement explaining that FGM/C has no basis in Sharia (Islamic law) or any of its partial provisions. 

From page 13...

In Burkina Faso (2009): 

The President of Burkina Faso publically declares his opposition
to FGM/C and calls on all religious and traditional leaders to actively engage in ending the practice. A national plan of action toeliminate FGM/C (2009-2013) is adopted. Mwangaza Action scales up its Yam Wékré campaign in 104 villages after an evaluation finds it to be a promising integrated approach.


From page 13...

In Kenya (2011):
The Prohibition of FGM Act is adopted, updating and expanding the 2001 Children’s Act, to criminalize FGM/C. The government updates the national action plan on FGM/C in light of the act. The Pokot Council of Elders and IL Chamus Council of Elders make public declarations against FGM/C in their communities, representing a total of over half a million people.


As we all know, laws do not change individual behavior or attitudes. For example, child pornography is against the law in this country. Yet, the child porn business, in this country, is alive and well. 


Last edited by EarthAndSky

FGM/C: A Social Norm


Facts from a credible source: UNICEF


From page 19:


The identification of FGM/C as a social norm implies that the practice is interdependent – that is, the behaviour of an individual or family is conditioned by the behaviour of others.
More precisely, it is conditioned by an individual’s or family’s
perceptions or expectations of what others do and think, whether
or not these are reflected in reality. Power relations also play
a role. It is not just what is said or done that is important,
but also who says or does it. For example, a visible stand in
support of ending the practice may have greater influence on
social expectations if articulated by an influential religious
leader rather than an adolescent community member. Likewise,
if medical professionals are seen to perform and uphold
the practice, this may strengthen its legitimacy and the social
expectation that it will and should continue.




As noted previously, the behaviour of individuals regarding
FGM/C is conditioned by the behaviour of others. It is therefore
difficult for any single individuals or families to abandon
the practice on their own. In this context, it is highly likely that some individuals or families may not personally support the practice, but feel compelled to go along with the group. This is consistent with the notion that changing individual attitudes towards FGM/C will not be sufficient to bring about large-scale abandonment. Families need to be convinced that enough other people will support – or at least tolerate – a move to end the practice before they will feel sufficiently empowered to forgo cutting their daughters.




This explains why women who immigrate from countries that practice FGM/C to Western nations continue the practice. In Western nations, these women end up living in communities where there is a high concentration of people from the same country from whence they came.


Referring to those who practice or condone FGM/C in derogatory terms or viewing them as savages and barbarians will not change anything. As we all know, from the cliche, people in glass houses should not throw stones.

Last edited by EarthAndSky

FGM/C: The Reasons it is Practiced


Facts from a credible source: UNICEF


From page 33:


In many settings, FGM/C derives much of its meaning and tenacity
from its intimate association with ethnic identity. This association raises a key question: What role does ethnicity play in the persistence of FGM/C? Where a strong link between FGM/C and ethnicity exists, it may be that ethnicity signals reciprocal expectations that hold the practice in place; in this case, ethnicity may be a proxy for shared norms concerning marriageability, sexual restraint, personhood or other common values. For instance, in the Horn of Africa, in some North African countries and in pockets of others, strong honour and modesty codes prescribe a set of values that are symbolized by FGM/C. In many West African and East African societies, FGM/C plays an integral role in defining personhood by its incorporation into coming-of-age rituals that confer the status of adulthood. Fuambai Ahmadu, a Sierra Leonean/American anthropologist, has stated that had she chosen to forgo initiation into women’s secret society, which necessitated FGM/C, she would have been permanently relegated to the status of childhood by her extended family.[83] Even in settings where the association of FGM/C with initiation rituals has weakened, the practice appears to remain an important physical marker of insider/outsider status and to be intertwined with shared values such as sexual restraint and respect for one’s elders.[84]


Fuambai Ahmadu was an adult when she chose to undergo FGM/C in her native country. Referring to her as a 'cunt' because you disagree with her decision is extreme and uncivilized, among other things. If an adult wants to have this procedure done, who are you to say that she shouldn't? What gives you the right to tell an adult what she can or cannot do with her own body? 


I don't agree at all with FGM/C being performed on young girls or underage girls who cannot make informed decisions for themselves. If the practice is to continue, in my opinion, then it should only be performed on adult women who choose to have the procedure performed on their own bodies, not on their young daughters or female babies. Who am I to tell an adult woman what she can or cannot do with her own body? I know I would have a serious problem if someone told me what I could or could not do with my own body, and then called me a 'cunt' for going against their wishes!!!


FGM/C: The Setting


Facts from a credible source: UNICEF


From page 43:


In the majority of countries, FGM/C is usually performed by traditional practitioners and, more specifically, by traditional
circumcisers. In some countries, such as Egypt,Sudan and Kenya, however, a substantial number of health-care providers perform the procedure. This phenomenon is most acute in Egypt, where mothers report that in three out of four cases (77 per cent), FGM/C was performed on their daughters by a trained medical
professional. In Egypt, this is most often a doctor, the only country where this holds true. In most countries where medical personnel play a significant role in performing FGM/C, nurses, midwives or other trained health personnel carry out the procedure.




From pages 107-108:


With the availability of repeat survey data, it is possible to examine the trend in the use of medically trained personnel to perform FGM/C. The ‘medicalization’ of FGM/C refers to the shift from traditional practitioners to health-care professionals (see Box 8.7).[159] It sometimes also refers to the use of medical instruments, antibiotics and/or anaesthetics by traditional practitioners.160 When performed in a health-care facility, this trend is also referred to as ‘clinicalization’.[161]




From Box 8.7 on page 109:


The trend towards increased medicalization of FGM/C has been attributed to decades of advocacy centred on delivering a message about the health risks of the practice.[163] While these campaigns are acknowledged to have raised awareness of such risks, they may have inadvertently promoted the perception that these harmful effects could be largely avoided if performed by medical personnel.[164]




Additionally, given that medical personnel often hold positions of authority and respect, medicalization may institutionalize the 

practice in the medical system and legitimize the practice as medically sanctioned. Numerous medical associations have condemned the medicalization of FGM/C, including the International Federation of Gynecology and Obstetrics (FIGO), which passed a resolution in 1994 at its General Assembly opposing the performance of FGM/C under any circumstances, in health establishments or by health professionals.169 The
medicalization of FGM/C Notes: ‘Health personnel’ include doctors, nurses, midwives and other health workers. ‘Traditional practitioners’ include dayas, ghagarias and barbers. Data from 1995 and 2000 refer to the most recently cut daughter among mothers aged 15 to 49 with at least one living daughter who has undergone FGM/C. Data from 2005 and 2008 refer to all daughters aged 0 to 17 who have undergone the procedure. Sources: DHS, 1995-2008.




From page 110:


Parallel to the medicalization of FGM/C, decades of educational campaigns focusing on health risks may have motivated individuals to seek less severe forms of cutting. Additionally, in some settings, advocacy for less severe forms of cutting may have been under way. I. O. Orubuloye and colleagues have reported that health professionals who performed FGM/C in Nigeria promoted nicking instead of clitoridectomy to reduce the risk of complications and attention to the practice.[174] The same phenomenon has been reported in southwest Kenya.[175] United Nations agencies have generated evidence showing that it is possible to move directly to abandonment among practising communities and caution against the promotion of interim strategies, since they may serve to legitimize and hence prolong the practice.[176] As with medicalization, such strategies focus narrowly on health risks, and fail to fully address the human rights violated by FGM/C.

FGM/C: Girls' and Women's Attitudes


Facts from a credible source: UNICEF


From page 52:


Girls’ and women’s attitudes about FGM/C vary widely across countries (see Figure 6.1). The highest levels of support can be found in Mali, Guinea, Sierra Leone, Somalia,[103] Gambia and Egypt, where more than half the female population think the practice should continue. However, in most countries where FGM/C is concentrated (19 out of 29), the majority of girls and women think it should end. The data also show that between 1 per cent and 26 per cent of girls and women surveyed have mixed feelings on the subject, do not have a strong opinion or prefer not to express what they think.

FGM/C: What Men and Boy's Think


Facts from a credible source: UNICEF


From page 57:


Information on the attitudes of boys and men towards FGM/C is only available for 16 of the 29 countries where FGM/C is concentrated.[106] Moreover, this information has not always been collected in the latest surveys for which data on women’s attitudes are available. This means that data on boys’ and men’s opinions of the practice are generally less up to date than data on girls and women, and may not reflect recent attitudinal changes.


The most recent data show that the level of support for the continuation of FGM/C among boys and men varies widely across countries (see Figure 6.4), as is the case for girls and women. In four countries with high FGM/C prevalence (Mauritania, Mali, Egypt and Guinea), the majority of boys and men report that they want FGM/C to continue. By contrast, in nine countries, themajority of them favour stopping the practice. While in most of these countries FGM/C prevalence is relatively low, the list also includes Burkina Faso and Sudan, where the practice is widespread.


When comparing data by age, strikingly large differences across cohorts are found in Egypt and Eritrea: In those countries, almost twice as many older men (aged 45 to 49) think the practice should continue compared to adolescent boys (aged 15 to 19) (results not shown). This is similar to the findings for girls and women in those countries, as shown in Figure 6.3.




From pages 58-59:


Over the decades, some have viewed FGM/C as a manifestation of patriarchal oppression of women, which would suggest that men are ardent supporters of the practice. This appears not to be the case. Figure 6.8 compares the attitudes of males and females towards FGM/C, using data from the same surveys. In most countries analysed, a similar level of support for FGM/C
is found among both women and men. In Guinea, Sierra Leone and Chad, substantially more men than women want FGM/C to end, while in Egypt and Mauritania, more women than men report they would like the practice to stop. In Eritrea, important differences are found between the proportions of men and women who are uncertain about the continuation of FGM/C, with men being nearly three times less likely to express a firm opinion than their female counterparts. These findings point to the conclusion that men may, in certain contexts, be important agents of change. This suggests that discussions about FGM/C should involve not only women, but also entire communities, including men, particularly in settings where men participate in the decision-making process.




From page 63:


Some surveys have asked women whether they thought men wanted the practice to continue or end. A similar question was asked of men about the attitudes of women. Answers to these questions show whether women and men have an accurate understanding of the attitudes of the opposite sex towards FGM/C. The data suggest this is not the case. Across all countries
with available data, girls and women consistently underestimate the share of boys and men who want FGM/C to end (see Figure 6.9).


Anyone who insists on claiming that men promote, encourage, and enforce FGM/C or force women to undergo FGM/C for their sexual gratification is either woefully ignorant of the facts or has a bias against men, black men in particular.


The Brute Caricature


FGM/C: Why Women and Men Think it Should Continue


Facts from a credible source: UNICEF


From page 66:


The most common responses from women and men on their reasons for continuing FGM/C are summarized in Tables 6.2 and 6.3, respectively. Among women, the most common reason selected from the pre-formulated list is to gain social
acceptance. This is consistent with the understanding that decisions about FGM/C among individuals are motivated by empirical expectations derived from observing how others in their reference group behave (see Box 6.3), as well as normative expectations that the practice will be enforced through positive and negative sanctions. For instance, in many lineages in Senegal and the Gambia, FGM/C is considered a crucial element in training girls to display respect for their elders and to behave in a morally virtuous manner, making them worthy of inclusion in elders’ social networks.[111] Within extended families, mothers, aunts and grandmothers are widely expected to conform to prevailing ideas about proper parenting.[112]


Under Mackie’s formulation, marriageability is posited as the key factor behind the origin and spread of FGM/C.[113] Once in place, FGM/C becomes embedded within the broader cultural context and is linked to other practices and cultural values that may shift over time.




From page 68:


Among boys and men, the reasons for a girl to undergo FGM/C largely mirrored those given by girls and women, with social acceptance and preservation of virginity being the most commonly cited reasons in most countries (see Table 6.3).


Last edited by EarthAndSky

FGM/C Trends


Facts from a credible source: UNICEF


From page 112:


Overall, the data suggest that the age at cutting has remained fairly stable in most countries (results not shown). Where change has occurred, the most common trend is towards younger ages. In Kenya, the proportion of girls and women who were cut before age 10 has increased from 14 per cent among women aged 45 to 49 to 44 per cent among girls aged 15 to 19, as shown in Figure 8.16. The same pattern can be observed in other countries, such as the United Republic of Tanzania and in Mali (results not shown).




From page 114:


Trend data show that the practice is becoming less common in more than half of the 29 countries. The decline is particularly striking in some moderately low to very low prevalence countries. In Kenya and the United Republic of Tanzania, for example, women aged 45 to 49 are approximately three times more likely to have been cut than girls aged 15 to 19. In Benin, Central African Republic, Iraq, Liberia and Nigeria, prevalence has dropped by about half among adolescent girls. In the highest prevalence regions of Ghana and Togo, respectively, 60 per cent and 28 per cent of women aged 45 to 49 have undergone FGM/C compared to 16 per cent and 3 per cent of girls aged 15 to 19.




From pages 115-116:


When national data on FGM/C are disaggregated by region and by ethnicity, it becomes clear that changes in the practice vary according to population groups. This is consistent with the notion that specific social dynamics are at play within different communities. In Kenya, for instance, FGM/C has declined steadily among certain ethnic groups where it was once almost universal and has persisted among others. In the space of three generations, the practice has become rare among the Kalenjin and Kikuyu, and has almost disappeared among the Meru. At the same time, more than 95 per cent of Somali and Kisii girls are still being cut.


These findings suggest that national plans to eliminate FGM/C should not apply uniform strategies in all parts of a country. Rather, they need to consider the specificity of various groups that share ethnicity or other characteristics. These groups may be concentrated in certain geographic regions of a country or extend across national borders. In the latter case, collaboration with neighbouring countries and with members of the diaspora may be required.




From pages 116-117:


A review of trends in attitudes towards FGM/C and prevalence suggests that diminishing support tends to precede an actual decline in the practice. To influence individual attitudes, it is important to continue to raise awareness that ending FGM/C will improve the health and well-being of girls and women and safeguard their human rights. At the same time, legislative action is critical, especially as an instrument to decrease support
for FGM/C, including by highlighting the legal consequences of engaging in the practice. Also essential are efforts to correct the
misconception that FGM/C is required by religion. In numerous countries, religious leaders and scholars are attempting to ‘delink’ FGM/C from religion. In Sudan, a national campaign portrays the uncut girl as whole, intact, unharmed, pristine – in other words, in perfect, God-given condition.


While shifts in individual attitudes are important, the data also show that they do not automatically lead to behaviour change. Across countries, many cut girls have mothers who oppose the practice. This indicates that other factors, which may include expectations within the larger social group, prevent women from acting in accordance with their personal preferences. Data also reveal that the most commonly reported reason for carrying
out FGM/C is a sense of social obligation. This provides further evidence that the practice is relational and that the behaviour of
individuals is conditioned by what others they care about expect them to do.

FGM/C: Where do we go from here?


Facts from a credible source: UNICEF


From page 117:


For decades, programmatic efforts have actively promoted pronouncements by respected and influential personalities, including traditional and religious leaders, calling for the elimination of FGM/C. More can be done to bring the lack of support for FGM/C into the public sphere. Programme activities can stimulate discussion within practising groups so that individual views opposing the practice can be aired. Local and
national media as well as other trusted communication channels can serve as a forum to disseminate information on decreasing support for FGM/C as well as to discuss the advantages of ending the practice. In West Africa, for example, traditional communicators, or griots, are passing along such
information and stimulating debate about the practice through theatre and songs.


Collective pronouncements or declarations against FGM/C are effective ways to make evident the erosion in social support for the practice. They also send the message that non-conformance will no longer elicit negative social consequences. The efficacy of such an approach has been demonstrated in all 15 countries that are part of the Joint UNFPA-UNICEF Programme on FGM/C and in other countries, such as Niger.[180] One result of the pronouncements is that families experience less social pressure to perform FGM/C and have less fear of social exclusion for not cutting their daughters. Over time, as more and more families are able to act in a way that is consistent with their personal preferences to end FGM/C, actual cutting will decrease. And, as individuals witness this transformation, they will have even greater assurance that the practice is no longer necessary for social acceptance.


This type of chain reaction may explain the process under way in many countries and in population groups within countries. In Burkina Faso, for example, support for FGM/C has been very low for decades, likely as a result of nationwide activities raising awareness of the harms of the practice as well as legislation prohibiting FGM/C, which has been enforced. Over this period, prevalence fell moderately but consistently. In the last 15 years or so, programme activities also provided opportunities for groups to collectively take a stand against the practice. The data indicate that  the decline in prevalence during this period has accelerated.




From page 118:


Overall, the findings presented here confirm progress reported by programmatic initiatives aimed at ending FGM/C. They also contain some welcome surprises, such as a greater than expected decline in prevalence in the Central African Republic, which had not been previously documented. The report also raises new questions. For example, it is unclear why a discernible decline in FGM/C has not been found in Senegal, where concerted efforts to eliminate the practice have been under way for over a decade. Additional research and analyses are needed to provide a clearer picture of the reasons why data reflect greater or smaller than expected changes in the practice.


These are definitely rational and reasonable solutions for tackling the problem. It is extremely unrealistic to expect a practice that has been going on for a few thousand years to cease overnight. For those who want it to end immediately, what do you suggest? Bombing those countries, where FGM/C is practiced, into submission? How about imposing Draconian sanctions against them; even though, the sanctions would lead to misery and death? It is one thing to rant about a problem; it is another to come up with sane solutions to the problem. Demonizing, with a holier-than-thou attitude, those who practice FGM/C serves no purpose whatsoever. It is counterproductive.




Originally Posted by Kocolicious:

What sane woman can justify this?  Only an out of touch stupid monster ass cunt.  the sole owner of one's body.  But!


BTW:  My anger in calling a supporter of FGM a cunt isn't directed toward anyone here on this board it is a hypothetical statement.  So please don't think that I am talking about anyone here cuz I am not.  I just want to make that CLEAR.   




It isn't clear to me.


'In 1999, the UN Special Rapporteur on Traditional Practices called for “tact and patience” regarding this area and drew attention to the risk of “demonizing cultures under cover of condemning practices harmful to women and the girl child.”[13] UNICEF and the United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA) currently use a hybrid term, ‘female genital mutilation/ cutting’ or FGM/C. This is meant to capture the significance of the term ‘mutilation’ at the policy level and highlight that the practice is a violation of the rights of girls and women. At the same time, it recognizes the importance of employing respectful terminology when working with practising communities.[14]'  

-source, UNICEF, Female Genital Mutilation/Cutting: A Statistical Overview and Exploration of the Dynamics of Change, page 8 


How is your statement 'hypothetical?' Are you not aware that FGM/C is highly prevalent in Djibouti? As far as I know, there are no women, who have not or will not experience FGM/C, encouraging, justifying, or promoting this practice on other females (not themselves)...including myself. If the practice is to continue, I'd rather it be performed on well-informed adult women (in a sanitary medical facility) who want it than on little girls or babies.


The majority of the slaves who were brought to the Americas, for example, were from the following countries.

  • Gambia
  • Guinea
  • Mali
  • Cote d' Ivoire
  • Burkina Faso
  • Guinea-Bissau
  • Mauritania
  • Sierra Leone
  • Liberia
  • Senegal
  • Nigeria


FGM/C is practiced in all of these countries. The Mandinka tribe (part of the Mande group) is prevalent in all of these countries except Nigeria. My ancestor, on my mother's side, who was brought over here in chains was Mandinka like Alex Haley's ancestor, Kunta Kinte. If my ancestor was female, it is most likely she had experienced FMG/C before her capture. I have relatives in one or more of the aforementioned countries of whom I am unaware. This is likely true of your relatives, whom you do not know about, back in West Africa. I can conclude that my female relatives in West Africa will experience or have experienced FGM/C. This is the main reason I refuse to demonize those women who practice, condone, promote, and encourage FGM/C in those countries...because I am related to some of them!


I take a very strong offense to anyone implying or even referring to my ancestors or relatives as 'out of touch stupid monster ass cunt[s],' savages, or barbarians. Referring to my family (whether near or distant, literally or figuratively) in such a derogatory manner is akin to calling me an 'out of touch stupid monster ass cunt,' savage, or barbarian.


I find it very odd that you can speak of the importance of uniting with our Black brothers and sisters in Africa but, at the same time, seem to hold an extremely low opinion of Africans who do not share your values and beliefs. How can you unite with someone with whom you hold in contempt?


Bound to Africa: The Mandinka Legacy in the New World


The Trans-Atlantic Slave Database


Last edited by EarthAndSky

Sista EarthandSky wrote: How is your statement 'hypothetical?'


What are you talking about....exactly?


Are you not aware that FGM/C is highly prevalent in Djibouti? As far as I know, there are no women, who have not or will not experience FGM/C, encouraging, justifying, or promoting this practice on other females (not themselves)...including myself.


And this makes it right how?


If the practice is to continue, I'd rather it be performed on well-informed adult women (in a sanitary medical facility) who want it than on little girls or babies.


It shouldn't BE performed on ANY female i.e. women or female.  I can't believe you [a woman[ are saying something like this? Your truth is finally coming out. Just for clarity it doesn't make a difference where FGM/C is is still WRONG to do this to innocent women and children who have no say so on what happens to their bodies.  It is THEIR bodies...not the men who force it upon them and hide behind the words culture and tradition.   That's bullshyte..  


And are you telling me you would accept being PHYSICALLY mutilated based on a man-made value and belief system? Including having it done to your daughters? Is that what you are saying? Wow! I guess it is easy to say considering saying it is PAINLESS without consequences.


Unfortunately those women who CAN'T say it...are in danger of a long painful death. And the thing is....they have a human RIGHT to happiness and peace and a right not to be mutilated. And I'm sure if they heard what you just said living here in the land of the free with clean water, an unmulitaled body that can not only be brought sexual gratification but you the ability all day long to go about your life unharmed....if they knew this?  They would be horrified.  Just horrified!


And those forementioned countries above all have some form of Islamic or Muslim influence, connection or contact. As we know Arabs had been conquering parts of Africa including most of Asia for thousands of years. So my point? Their conversion which includes FGM behavior involves those countries you listed. And the higher percentage of Islamic/Muslin influence...the higher the rate of FGM/C and it's drastic methods.

FGM/C is practiced in all of these countries. The Mandinka tribe (part of the Mande group) is prevalent in all of these countries except Nigeria. My ancestor, on my mother's side, who was brought over here in chains was Mandinka like Alex Haley's ancestor, Kunta Kinte. If my ancestor was female, it is most likely she had experienced FMG/C before her capture.


Not true. Why? Massa is NOT gonna buy slaves who cannot do the work on plantations. If this barbaric practice was placed on those slaves coming to the new world and south America[including the slave islands]....they wouldn't have made massa globally rich with continued wealth long!   Massa was adamant about having uncut and fully intact slaves...including being adamant about castrated males-he didn't want them. Cuz uncastrated men were more valuable than women in those days because they were much stronger than their female counterparts. Massa needed work slaves not sex slaves. And if FGM and castration were performed on Atlantic Slaves? There wouldn't have been as many slave revolts. Cuz it is difficult to rebel in PHYSICAL pain and discomfort caused by mutilation.


Look at it this way, as a woman or young girl, if you are CUT down in your private area and SEWN up soooo tight you cannot pee or menustration[sp] cannot flow properly, it is IMPOSSIBLE to assume you will be able to go out on the plantation and work long back breaking hours. Come on sista. That was the whole purpose of the "audition block."  To ensure there would no damaged goods.  Massa looked under every nuck and cranny of each slave he bought.  He inspected them [their teeth and between their legs] as he would his cattle and stock. Trust and believe if there was any indication that those slaves were damaged goods? Massa would have rejected them once he found out  and killed them or took them back. Bottom line. Mutilated slaves didn't have the type of value for him. He wanted them to WORK. Not to look at and be surrogates for his children. Nope.  And Arab slavers wanted to make a they accommodated those wishes.   

I have relatives in one or more of the aforementioned countries of whom I am unaware. This is likely true of your relatives, whom you do not know about, back in West Africa. I can conclude that my female relatives in West Africa will experience or have experienced FGM/C.


Well. I have nothing to say about that cuz that's where YOU are coming from. But I know if there are any female slaves mutilated in that way in the new world....first off?  She couldn't give birth vaginally and then go back out to plantation and so many pregnant slaves did back then. And secondly, massa would have had more female corpses as a result of not being able to give birth on his plantation....cuz at the time c-sections were rare and only given to Ms. Ann not the slave women. Plus doctors wouldn't touch slaves back then.  And with the risk of septemic[sp] infections, mid-wives would be unable to help these women/young girls. So to mitigate that?  Massa demanded FULL intact slaves from the Arabs. Bottom line.


This is the main reason I refuse to demonize those women who practice, condone, promote, and encourage FGM/C in those countries...because I am related to some of them!


That's you not me. I agree with the phase..."for they not KNOW what they do." Cuz this barbaric practice was there in their culture when they were born-a practice introduced to them as a result of the Arab Slave Trade [thousands of years ago i.e. 4th century and before]. And for the record I am not demonizing I reject that term completely. I continue to make African American women [including the men] fully AWARE of the barbaric backward slave practice of FGM that is currently happening in other parts of the African world-an ancient practice [brought to an advanced civilization by barbaric nomad conquerors] that STILL no one there wants to TALK about.   A practice that was not placed upon the Atlantic Slave trade for two reasons (1) This practice would caused a low rate of production in the cotton, sugar, tobacco and other crops on plantations-which most are fields involving  back breaking labor requiring long hours to accomplish ( a person suffering from FGM/C or castration could not possibly handle such streneous [sp] activity).


And without proper medication for the healing process of FGM infections [ if the practice was to occur in the new world], would have limited the ongoing sell of commodities and seasonal production of crops-leading to money loss-and massa wasn't having that.


(2) It is a great difference in human labor between the savagery of Arab Trade Slaver and that of the Atlantic Trade slaver. Both were cruel.  But Arabs used slaves in their military and primarily for domestic service since they had no plantations to toll. They for the most part created harems and utilized the ancient use of enunchs to protect those harems which made it necessary to performFGM/C on the females as young as 6 months old and castration on the men to ensure no sexual attraction or activity among the two. However, no where in our history in this country has there EVER been FGM/C [or documentation stating so] performed on any slave who came here or slaves born here. That's a fact.


Had there been? Everyone would have known about it number one and surely it would be no secret number two and lastly FGM would have been an crucial a part of black life[for control]...but! It was not. Plus christianity [Atlantic Slave Trade] is partly responsibility for slaves not being mutilated. Not because massa didn't want it but mainly because it would not be profitable for him.


Bottom line for me is African women/girls have NO voice in this twisted form of social torturous control. Nada. They are/were born into this practice whether they wanted it or not. I don't KNOW any one that would DELIBERATELY want someone to cut off their clitoris or  I have a real problem with that. And it is no secret that men are the ones behind this cruelty for BOTH genders. They have incorporated it in the culture in terms of value, principle, faith, social acceptance and belonging.


And by no stretch of the imagination was this method a part of the original villagers civilized standards prior to the Arab contact. This is a WAR tactic. A social weapon against women.and again...I must stress this...this was a slave barbaric backward method BROUGHT to Africans. It is NOT..I was NEVER a part of the original African culture, tradition OR lifestyle. And if FGM/C was a common practice in slavery in America? It would have been passed on generationally until this very day.

I take a very strong offense to anyone implying or even referring to my ancestors or relatives as 'out of touch stupid monster ass cunt[s],' savages, or barbarians. Referring to my family (whether near or distant, literally or figuratively) in such a derogatory manner is akin to calling me an 'out of touch stupid monster ass cunt,' savage, or barbarian.

You can take offenses alllllllllll you want. I say what the hell I want. You control nothing here. Not a thang. What you take from  what I said about this topic is ON you.  And hey I DON'T know anything about your family-was never formally introduced to them. So I dunno what you are talking about there.  But you chose how to respond to this topic.  You put that jacket on them- not me.  I have nothing to do with that.


However... I do KNOW a lot about FGM/C. And...I do know how to resolve THIS issue [and maybe other issues in the future you may have] with me.   You can NOT read my posts on this issue...just stop reading it and that will completely eliminate you being offended.   Other than that? Don't KNOW what to tell ya.   But what's not gonna happen is your silencing or stopping my perspective on this merely because you happen to offend yourself by reading what I say. Nope. Again.  Not happening. And if you're so offended...trying doing something POSITIVE for black women in this country....instead of wasting your time and energy whining to me about how I express myself cuz I am NOT gonna change my views or change how I express it....nope...not under any circumstance.


I find it very odd that you can speak of the importance of uniting with our Black brothers and sisters in Africa but, at the same time, seem to hold an extremely low opinion of Africans who do not share your values and beliefs. How can you unite with someone with whom you hold in contempt?

Unite? that's too funny.  Cuz we as black people are having problems uniting in this country....and HISTORICALLY evidence shows a lot of Africans haven't been able to even unite in their own country in the last thousand years or so. Just a few have [where FGM/C is eradicated by law].  Many of em..these African countries  are STILL trying to catch with modern life. So who you talking to?    Just look at what is happening in a lot of war torn countries in Africa today.  That tells you right there...that there isn't MUCH unity going on.


And just so you know my sista....I hold no one in contempt only the behavior that refuses to gives African HUMAN being [females] their PERSONAL rights to their OWN body parts and RIGHTS to go about their LIFE unharmed. I'm just keeping it real. I look beyond all these bullshyte propaganda distractions and get down to facts. And fact is....FGM/C is WRONG on so many levels of humanity.  It is a social CRIME against women and children.  And it needs to be!


Additionally, you can find whatever YOU want odd. I stand in my truth and have NEVER looked for anyone's approval regarding my perspective on ANYTHING or how I VIEW African life currently. And FGM/C has absolutely NOTHING to do with values or beliefs. It is a barbaric and inhumane SLAVE tactic [that was FORCED on African people] that [sole purpose is to] CONTROL and socially/culturally/physically/emotionally/spiritually/soulfully RAPE women and little girls of their intimate flower given to them at conception.  And no one has the RIGHT to do that.  No one.  I don't what GOD says its right...cuz no real GOD would.    As of yet, no god has come to ME and said it was okay...I know no God would ever do that.  Just saying.


Lastly, I find it rather ODD that you don't placed yourself and body in their position to totally understand what it means to cut and mutilated. Empathy and compassion are needed in this case cuz these women have no voice as slaves in America didn't have a voice-until one person finally was able to scream [loud enough to have a voice] and then it triggered screams that were HEARD around the world. If not for that first scream? Trust and Believe.  We would still be SLAVES. But!

Last edited by Kocolicious

Fact: Neither the European nor the Arab slave trade was the originator of the practice of FGM/C. Neither encouraged or promoted this practice. There is no evidence that I could find that supports the claim that FGM/C is rooted in slavery. If you have found a crediblesource that refutes this then please provide it.



  Now I've heard EVERYTHING!!!!  You gonna believe what both slave masters say?  Hey it wasn't long ago that they SAID slaves [that would be us] were SUBHUMANS.  And they didn't have any evidence to  justify it....and many folks BELIEVED them.  And I definitely wouldn't call them a CREDIBLE source.  Are you kidding me?  Wow!   I really think you should START reading the horror stories of FGM.  And with that African and African American history.  I suggest you use common sense to deteremine what WOULD you do in that same circumstance during a time when there was a COLLAPSE of African culture.  I also recommend...just for a tad moment....just think for YOURSELF as a human being and see if you will STILL disagree that FGM is a man-made ploy hidden behind the guise of culture and tradition to control WOMEN since the fall matriarchal rule!!!!  And after you've taken that moment of clarity....then maybe just maybe we can resume discussing the issue at hand.  Otherwise, it appears to me that you are being influenced by something which exist for the sole empowerment of MEN.  Just a thought.  But!

Last edited by Kocolicious

Want to slice something?  Slice some damn strawberries and leave all the females of the world alone and allow them to be the females they were born to be.  We have more than enough to contend with bringing forth all the insane bastards; giving them life, without worrying about razors and knives and being chopped to smithereens too.

 I've been an advocate for FGM for over 25 years approaching 30 and since finding out about FGM is currently a NEW discovery for YOU sista EarthandSky, I'm gonna help you out and give you a few stories/account of the REAL nitty gritty of FGM from the "horses mouth."


Of course Alice Walker touched on it in the movie and book "Color Purple." During the dual initiation of Celie's son Adam and his future bride Tashi, Walker, her editor or the script writer's may have added Adam initiation in the ceremony to suggest union between the two...but!  What was really happening?  FGM.


Usually when tribes do anything for scarification ceremony? Or ceremony of initiation, each gender does it within their own group i.e. males do it together and women do it together.  I do not know of any African group that participates in dual tribal initiations with both genders simultaneously.   Except for after a child is born and both parents are there to initiate the child into the village.


So the point?  Even in Walker's subtle tribal assertions in the Color Purple, she was specifically TALKING about the FGM ceremony of Tashi. Although Walker didn't go into detail about what occurred for Tashi in the movie and the book, she did write another book called Possessing the Secret of Joy[written in the mid or late 80s]-which goes into DEPTH about the ramification of FGM on Tashi and how it affect her life as a FREE woman.  I suggest you read that book.  .   


Additionally [recommendation]...  there is ANOTHER book on FGM written in 1998 by an African model from Somali who experienced this barbaric torture herself.  The book is called Desert Flower. Soonafter that book was published, she went on write two more books on the subject:  Desert Dawn and Desert Children[regarding immigrants who perform FGM throughout Europe]   


After reading or reviewing those books above, if you get a chance, take a ponder at another FGM survivor Saraya Mire who wrote "The Girl with three legs." These personal accounts of FGM is just the TIP of the iceberg my sista.  I have been studying this issue since I found about Afghan women who were being HELD captive in their own culture during the time when the Taliban were in FULL control of the entire society and playing Oil tag with the westerners.  That was in the 70s.  So the cut and paste you're doing on this board is AFTER THE FACT.  I was studying this when there was NO INTERNET and you had to use the library to research it with LIMITED information.


Furthermore as I became more enlighten about this, I had the opportunity to meet WOMEN from the middle east and Africa who shared their horror stories with me...once I had their trust.  So.  Like the kids say "I BEEN knowing about this."  You apparently just found out  about FGM  here lately and without exhibiting ANY form of gender solidarity choose to believe what you find on the web.   When it is a FACT that this torture act against women and little girls wasn't talked about openly until the last 15-20 years or so...and it was then those tiny screams got louder and louder.  Cuz why?  For the FIRST time in more than two thousand years the world was FINALLY listening.    


So don't get it twisted my sista.  I explained earlier about the wrath of my anger.  And I also SAID that my anger wasn't a reflection to any one on this board.  And regardless of how foul my language is regarding those who continue to participate in this torturous act, it is NOTHING absolutely nothing compared to what these FGM women and little girls are going through and HAVE been going through.  Therefore if you took what I said personally...with me calling the supporters of FGM cunts, monsters etc [when obviously I wrote a disclaimer to it], I can only conclude that you WANTED to take it personally and be offended.  And for those reasons alone, it is NOT my fight!  But!

Last edited by Kocolicious

  Oooooops my bad.  I didn't SEE this


Fuambai Ahmadu was an adult when she chose to undergo FGM/C in her native country. Referring to her as a 'cunt' because you disagree with her decision is extreme and uncivilized, among other things. If an adult wants to have this procedure done, who are you to say that she shouldn't? What gives you the right to tell an adult what she can or cannot do with her own body? 


 First off....YOU don't QUALIFY to tell ME what is extreme.  As a matter of fact you don't QUALIFY to tell me a got damn thang.  Who you?  Secondly since you brought this up   When African women WILLINGLY participate in the cruelty against womankind...,.they are setting the STAGE of FGM to model for young girls who do not WANT TO DO IT.  Cuz most times the real function of the woman initiation is hidden from these girls, they are TOLD they are going to a GROOMING party.  Why lie?  If this is something imperative to the culture.


   Thirdly [and I didn't wanna say it or go there]...but since you went there is quite APPARENT...that you do not KNOW what you are talking about in regards to FGM.  Anyone with a computer and the internet can CUT AND PASTE.  That's not REAL knowledge.  That is artificial information given to the media approved by the country it comes from.    How we know what they SAY are true?  Patriarchal societies are ADAMANT about keeping the brutality against women and children secret.  Additionally, you asked what gives me the RIGHT?  What the fock are you talking about? That's a fillabuster[sp] question to avoid the real issue at hand.  The truth is my sista no one has the RIGHT to tear away at someone's else BODY PART based on false culture customs and fraudulent traditions-which are EXCUSES!!!


And just so you know I'm not being self-righteous-what I am doing is stating FACTS about mutilated women and children who are NOT able to fight for their OWN rights to THEIR bodies. You're the ONE being self-righteous cuz you talk like a MAN.  No real woman will ever condone such practice....especially if she has daughters.  This is NOT the same as you would circumcise a young boy-these women and little babies vagina tips are cut off. Here's a photo of a baby having FGM performed on her



  Are you talking me that this above photo is ACCEPTABLE behavior?  And that someone would WILLINGLY take part in this allow their child to take part in this in order to be ACCEPTED in a village or tribe? That's where you are WRONG.  If these women and mothers of daughter do not participate in this?  They are isolated and oust from their village.  They have to cuz they have NO other choice or option.  Now I call the men who forcibly implement this on their women...SELF-RIGHTEOUS.  


Trust and believe I have even MORE horrible photos of FGM women and young girls[including FGM performed in hospItals].  But I am not gonna go there cuz it sickens as it SHOULD sicken you.  But I understand we may come from the other side of the tree.  So you say or call me what you won't change the FACT[and I'm about facts about FGM]...IT WON'T CHANGE THE FACT....that FGM is WRONG...and  has been WRONG since women all over the world were thrown under the BUS by the men they gave BIRTH to and the men they LOVE.  And that's the real tragedy.   Cuz if that act above is not considered barbaric, savage, monsterous and out of touch by you....then my question is.  What kind of human being are you?  But!

Last edited by Kocolicious



1. I provided excerpts (including figures) from a near 200 page comprehensive and well-researched document on FGM/C that was put together by UNICEF (a credible source), which does not condone FGM/C in any way, but they were completely ignored. This document managed to state that FGM/C is a human rights violation (which I wholly agree with) without pronouncing judgement and condemnation on anyone except the practice itself but this was completely ignored.


In fact, all of the facts that were presented in the UNICEF document (credible source) were completely ignored such as...

  • Religion having nothing to do with FGM/C (Togo's main religion is traditional or indigenous, not Muslim or Christian, but FGM/C is practiced in this country);
  • Some Islamic countries making it very clear that FGM/C is not an Islamic belief or practice;
  • Laws have been enacted to end FGM/C in countries where it is being practiced;
  • Trends showing that, since the 1980s, the practice of FGM/C has been declining in most countries where it is being done, and, among some tribes, completely eliminated (Isn't this progress?);
  • The reasons the practice continues; and
  • Facts that show that men, in some of those countries where FGM/C is practiced, would like for the practice to end...but


Completely ignored. 


2. In one of the excerpts from the UNICEF document, it stated that in some countries (like Kenya), FGM/C is being performed on younger girls than before despite efforts to end the practice. In other words, trends showed that, over time, FGM/C is being done on younger and younger girls. I find this trend very alarming and horrifying.


The point I was trying to make (but was completely missed) was that if some tribes or ethnic groups insist on performing FGM/C then they should STOP PERFORMING IT ON YOUNG GIRLS AND BABIES and perform it only on ADULT WOMEN, who CHOOSE to do it for THEMSELVES, in a SANITIZED MEDICAL FACILITY, after being FULLY INFORMED (of the risks, complications, etc.).


The UNICEF report (obviously ignored) stated that when they spoke to adult women who had the procedure performed on them, many did not recall the age in which was performed and had no recollection of the experience itself. Furthermore, the report (ignored) stated that some women actually believe that it is normal for it to take 15 minutes to empty their bladders. They have not connected the dots: FGM/C directly related to the difficulty in emptying their bladders (complication). 


If those ADULT WOMEN, who have forgotten the actual experience, had to experience it all over again as ADULTS, they would be less inclined to have FGM/C performed on their young daughters or babies. That was the point I was trying to make.


Of course, this does not take into account Type 3 FGM/C (sewing up). In this case, the adult women who allow this procedure to be performed on their young daughters are viewing it in terms of the benefits (marriageability and social acceptance) outweighing the cost (risks, including death, and long term adverse complications). This dynamic needs to change. In other words, policies need to be put in place so that the cost (permanent removal of children from parents, for example) outweighs the benefits (marriageability and social acceptance). 


The highest incidence (63%) of Type 3 FGM/C is found in Somalia (a Muslim country). Interestingly, Mali and Nigeria (both Islamic), for example, have a low incidence of Type 3 FGM/C (3 percent and 6 percent, respectively). This information was in the UNICEF report that was ignored, and it will probably be ignored again.


3. I have asked a couple of times already for someone, anyone, to provide credible proof that the practice of FGM/C began with either or both the Arab Slave Trade or Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade. So far, no one has provided any proof. I've been trying to find this myself and, so far, I have not found anything. If you have credible information that I am not privy to, please share it. This is a reasonable request.


Stating the same thing over and over again, in the absence of any proof, does not make it either valid or true.


By the way, if the captured and enslaved woman did not have Type 3 FGM/C performed on her, she would still have likely been put on the ship. As we all know, not all types of FGM/C involve removal of the flesh. In this case (non-Type 3), the white male slaver (not a gynecologist) who performed the 'inspection' would have no idea whether the woman could become pregnant or be able to carry a baby to full term by just looking at her external parts.


4.I did not just learn about FGM/C recently. It's been years since I've first learned of this practice. It has only been recently that I have been trying to learn more about the practice from the perspectives of those who had it performed on them and would like to see it continue.


How in the world can anyone become fully informed about FGM/C if she or he refuses to look all angles or aspects of it?


So far, the report from UNICEF and Fuambai Ahmadu's personal account have been the most insightful and informative, for me, in this regard. Much of the stuff out there on the subject, IMO, looks like it was put together by Fox News. 


I am not interested in sensational or shock-value reporting on FGM/C, which often comes across as exploitative of and disrespectful to the very people it claims to be trying to help. 


5. Fuambai Ahmadu is a Sierra Leone-American woman (a true African American). She was born in Sierra Leone but was raised in the USA. Fuambai Ahmadu, as a well-informed ADULT, chose to have the procedure performed on her. She stated the reason why she did it. No one forced her do it. It was her choice. Why is this being ignored? 


Presenting Fuambai Ahmadu's case should in no way be construed as acceptance of the practice of FGM/C. Anyone who draws that conclusion is seriously reaching. UNICEF mentioned her in its report. I mentioned her, too, on this thread. UNICEF is against the practice of FGM/C. So am I.


Fuambai Ahmadu is an adult woman. I personally cannot and will not tell an adult woman what she can or cannot do with her own body, whether I agree with what she does with it or not. Isn't this what the abortion issue is all about in this country: Women's rights to their own bodies? I personally don't agree with abortion (except in extenuating circumstances) but who am I to tell a woman what she can or cannot do with her own body?


Fuambai Ahmadu stated that she would NOT FORCE her daughter (if she had one) to undergo FGM/C. Of course, this was completely ignored. 


6. In the UNICEF report, completely ignored, it stated that it is considered disrespectful (especially in Muslim countries) to put a woman's or girl's genitals on display. The report stated that they could not even show them a drawing of a female's genitals. Out of respect for the women and girls in those countries, UNICEF chose not to show or include any photos of their genitals.


Many websites clearly lack scruples, decorum, and respect for black African females because they have posted photos of the genitals of actual women and girls on their websites. In the USA, posting an image of an underage girl's genitals on a website is illegal. Those who post the genitals of black African women and girls (without their knowledge or consent) on their websites are, in effect, saying that black African women and girls are not deserving of respect...but that's not surprising. 




I must conclude, based on the replies, that the report by UNICEF was completely dismissed (not read). Also, I must conclude that Fuambai Ahmadu's blog on the practice of FGM/C in Sierra Leone (particularly with the Kono people) and her own personal experience with it was completely dismissed (unread). 


Finally, as I've stated several times before (on this topic and a similar one posted on this web site),




Last edited by EarthAndSky

  I'm not reading all this stuff.  I've heard it before.  And in terms of proof?  The documents you cut and paste are recent information on the topic..about 15 or so years old.  It use to be COUNTRIES wouldn't even allow it to be talked about let alone be viewed all over the world.

Stating the same thing over and over again, in the absence of any proof, does not make it either valid or true.


So how is allllllllllll this cut and paste proof?  I state my position over and over because YOU ARE NOT LISTENING!  You're just focus on your next move[merely cuz you wanna debate].  So  I am not gonna allow YOU to minimize my knowledge while you MAXIMIZE yours with so-called cut and paste from the internet.   My proof?  Is my research over the years...and this is not a CLASS or a I don't have to cite where I gather my data-and I can recall a lot of it from memory.  Doesn't make what I say any less true.  All YOU  have to do since you are soooooooo internet happy is to LOOK IT UP!  To see if there is an untruth about anything I have said about FGM.  I don't know EVERYTHING...this is true.  But I do know a whole lot more than what you continue to cut and paste here.  So if you FEEL I am incorrect?  Prove it.


By the way, if the captured and enslaved woman did not have Type 3 FGM/C performed on her, she would still have likely been put on the ship. As we all know, not all types of FGM/C involve removal of the flesh. In this case (non-Type 3), the white male slaver (not a gynecologist) who performed the 'inspection' would have no idea whether the woman could become pregnant or be able to carry a baby to full term by just looking at her external parts.


This is true and that is why once the white slaver realized that slave girls and women were dying as a result of not being able to vaginally give birth and not producing in the fields and it was costing him money?  Massa demanded a certain type of slave from then on-uncut and uncastrated.  It may have been in the beginning that some slaves were given to the novice slaver mutilated i.e. infibulation[sp].  But massa was a quick study and Arab slavers were designing all types of slaves...from the color code to body when massa came back for more [especially since the banning of slavery was approaching and he had to make his own slaves] he brought a slave doctor with him to examine the female slaves to ensure he was not getting "damaged" goods. Cuz trust and believe if FGM was implemented in the black life of slaves in this country-IT WOULD HAVE BEEN DISCLOSED AND DISCUSSED and it would have been a part of inhumane acts done to slaves in America.  And Harriet would have been the FIRST one to bring it to the light.  But she didn't.  This may sound like a repeat to you simply cuz you're not listening. You wanna dismiss it but the truth?  Cannot be dismissed.  It just is.   Just so you folklore is MORE credible than any words that massa allows in a book about black life.      


BTW::  the picture of the FGM baby above?  Her genitals are not SHOWN...just the razor about to cut her is shown,    So this is NOT an image of underage girl's genital....the cutter's HAND is hiding the child's private part.  All is shown is what is about to happen....that's all.  And if it were illegal to post this?  It wouldn't be on the internet under FGM images.   And on the internet, there are many images of NAKED indigeous[sp] folks all day long.  If it were prohibited to view?  It wouldn't be on open sites mandated and monitored by the FBI.  And it wouldn't be accessible to the public.  Any student can look these images up for research. Plus this image is no different than the photo taken of the naked vietnamese girl who was running away from the area where her home was being bomb during the vietnam war.  That photo became famous all over the world.  And brought awareness of what was going on over there regarding the children.  As this FGM photo is also doing....exposing the timeless crime against women and children.  It is about AWARENESS.  You have to SEE the problem to KNOW it exist.  That's what photo-journalism is all about.    


In terms of the information you posted. And keep coming back posting some more?   Know it.  Don't have to re-read it. FGM is NEW to you.  As said is NOT new to me.  You come In here and TRY to sling your arrogance and ridiculous snobbishness about how someone is supposed to act or behave...and I am just NOT biting.  I don't CARE what you think.  You are NOT the only spoon in the drawer. And clearly your opinion regarding my perspective means absolutely nothing to me. You can't dictate decorum, respect, dignity, integrity-none of that to me.  So..  You can cut and paste alllllllllllllllllll you want.  It won't change a THANG from where I stand.  Not one single thang. But!

Last edited by Kocolicious

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