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It seems to me on this thread we are have two types of people. Those of us who embrace our african heritage and desire an opportunity to control and define our own destinies. Others indentify with the mainstream capitalist culture and believe by assimilating into this culture adopting its core values and contributing to the advancement of thie American Imperial Civilization. How do you guys feel about these two terms and which one do you think its most viable for African people, or can both be used? if so what are some ways we can use these ideologies to advance the conditions of African peoples
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I think it all depends on what you want. Nationalism and "Assmilitationism" are strategies to achieve an objective. Your post begs the question of whether African America should be striving for a free and independent African American land or whether we should be looking to maximize our productivity and happiness and influence within the United States.

We've debated this question quite a bit here and I think you'll find folks on both sides of this particular fence. I think there might be more on the nationalism side if someone could paint a clear and tangible picture of what the vision (and path) of that strategy is.
if you are sporting the Red black and Green flag and dont know what Nationalism is, something is very wrong with that picture. Just like people tell the whites who come here asking about racism, all this information on the net about Nationalism there is no reason an intelligent black person hasnt studied Nationalism at least from the point of understanding what it is. What I find is a lot of people pic up slogans and wear material but no nothing about what they are representing
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:

if you are sporting the Red black and Green flag and dont know what Nationalism is, something is very wrong with that picture. Just like people tell the whites who come here asking about racism, all this information on the net about Nationalism there is no reason an intelligent black person hasnt studied Nationalism at least from the point of understanding what it is. What I find is a lot of people pic up slogans and wear material but no nothing about what they are representing


WHAT DO YOU WANT? Do you want a homeland within the U.S.? Do you want to go back to Africa? Do you want to be on a reservation Native American style? Would you prefer a federally owned land like the District of Columbia? Do you just want more and stronger African American run cities within the U.S.? Do you support armed insurrection against the U.S.? Should we all move to a state and take it over with a black governor, legislature, etc.?

Stop making a fool out of yourself and think about what is being asked you. I just want to know how you see a nationalistic strategy playing out and to what end.
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:
It seems to me on this thread we are have two types of people. Those of us who embrace our african heritage and desire an opportunity to control and define our own destinies. Others indentify with the mainstream capitalist culture and believe by assimilating into this culture adopting its core values and contributing to the advancement of thie American Imperial Civilization. How do you guys feel about these two terms and which one do you think its most viable for African people, or can both be used? if so what are some ways we can use these ideologies to advance the conditions of African peoples
strawman fallacy
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:

you can say all the negative things you want to say about me, its cool,but i put up brother. Anyway what did Marcus say, dont you have his Flag, what does that flag represent>?? you have the answers to your own questions.


Are you for real? Are you a plant from the FBI or Stormfront or something? lol Just tell me what you want. This isn't a trick question. I think Garvey was talking about Pan Africanism. You can be a Pan Africanist in the U.S. or in Africa. What do YOU want?
what ive noticed on this site, certain people never answer anything they always ask questions but never state their views. When are we gonna hear your views on anything. this your site, if you go back and look at my post I state clearly where I stand. You cats remind me of O'Reilly and them spinn doctors. Never address issues but always turn the question around. When will we ever hear where MBM stand on issues, seems to me you guys never answer a question. You are sporting a Marcus Garvey flag what do you feel about it what does it mean to you?
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:

You cats remind me of O'Reilly and them spinn doctors. Never address issues but always turn the question around. When will we ever hear where MBM stand on issues, seems to me you guys never answer a question.


Damn - you caught me. You're right. I never do give my opinion about anything! Frown
All MBM is asking you ZAKAR is:

Are you a Nationalist? If so, what do you see as the end goal of nationalism? How would you go about getting there?

Many of your posts start out on the defensive. I'm sure you're not being set up, but you make brash, unsupported statements on occasion. On a board of intelligent Black folk, you have to expect someone to call you on them.

Since I have "skin in the game" ($.02 to MBM), I would not walk away from America. I wish to revive & nuture our culture, improve our political & economic savvy, and be compensated for generations of institutional disadvantage.
really i dont need you to explain to me what MBM was asking, I understand the question very well. He has the Flag i was just calling him on what the flag means. Is something wrong with that. Many people make brash unsupported statements on this board. But if someone doesnt go along with Uncle Tomism, we are unintelligent.Who has giving a strategy thats full proof here??
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:

But if someone doesnt go along with Uncle Tomism, we are unintelligent.


BULLSHIT.

quote:
Who has giving a strategy thats full proof here??


No one has asked for a fool proof strategy. All I've asked for is what's on your mind. You seem to support nationalism. Cool. What flavor? Do you want to go back to Africa? Do you want to express your nationalism with an African American state somehow? I'm just trying to get a feel for what and how you think on this issue.
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:

you seem to be a Nationalist too, (since you sport the Flag) im just interested in what type you stand for, where are your views on this matter?


Take a look at this thread from December 2003. Here are some highlights:

quote:
Originally posted by MBM:

I just don't see any "fixes" for our community that do not include doing things on a day-to-day basis that can improve our condition - even while planning and working toward other things. I don't believe in focusing exclusively on stretch objectives (e.g. an independent and sovereign black nation) without also doing things today to positively impact our lives. It's like forcing the gifted young athlete to also focus on his/her studies, despite the potential of professional sports. You may make it to the NBA, but if you don't - having an education provides a set of skills to enhance life. Getting more involved in our communities, voting, running for office, volunteering for campaigns, giving money to candidates, etc., etc. are all things that can empower us in our communities and positively impact our lives. Ignoring those things makes no sense to me, particularly absent a sound strategy to improve black America by other means.


quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
quote:
Originally posted by Nmaginate:

Exactly what do you mean "work the system" in the context of making RADICAL CHANGES (in the structure of American society) that Dr. King once spoke about?


I think we can change the system but only by utilizing a careful strategy that doesn't cause America to have to immediately confront itself. It's like the analogy of putting a frog in a pot of water. Throw him into boiling water and he immediately jumps out. Slowly heat the water and then all of a sudden he's cooked before he knows it.

White folks are so scared of blacks and black anger that I don't think a "confrontational" approach is the best strategy to create change. All of a sudden we start planning a revolution and I have no doubts that the Patriot Act gets supercharged and we'll think COINTELPRO was child's play. I have no doubt that a 60's revolutionary approach to black empowerment would very quickly engender a level of white fear that we'd see tanks and F-16's coming to get us Israeli style. brosmile< !--graemlin::brosmile:-->

I think we can create radical change that uplifts our community in meaningful ways, but IMO it will be by working their system, talking their language, and outplaying them at their game. You'll remember my political strategy designed to do just that is an example.

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