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I certainly hoped these were rumours. Apparently the NOI has long had secret dealings with the Klan. One individual pointed out that in the 1980's a famous white supremacist called Tom Metzgar or something attended a NOI event and donated 100 dollars.
Also I've heard that as far back as the 60s Elijah Mohammed ordered Malcolm X to meet with the Klan to discuss ways to divide America into black and white plots of land. This apparently was one of the unreported reasons why Malcolm left the NOI e.g one of the issues Spike Lee's movie refused to get into. I have also heard of former NOI members confirming Farakhan's secret alliance with the Aryan Nation formed by an apparent shared hatred of Jews. Please note that some Neo Nazi websites have links to the Final Call, the NOI newspaper. Is anyone else sickened by this apart from me?
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Man please...you seem to be attempting to smear the image of the NOI, by displaying rumors. I am not a Muslim but I have a lot of respect for the NOI, despite all the rumors and allegations. I do not expect a human to be perfect, nor do I expect an organization composed of humans to be perfect. But there is NO QUESTION that the NOI has been at the forefront for years, fighting for black justice.

It is a law of physics that says that any object in a state of equilibrium that is removed from the equilibrium by a force will require AN EQUAL AND OPPOSITE FORCE TO RESTORE IT TO EQUALIBRUIM. History teaches us that the force of Anglo racism, desrimination and the doctrine of white supremacy, removed African people from there natural state of physical, economical, cultural, social and psychological equilibrium. Consequently, one can view the NOI as an organization that represents the equal and opposite force to the force of Anglo racism.

The KKK are simply an organization that seeks to maintain white supremacy via keeping African people below their natural level of equilibrium and in a state of national and global inequality relative to Anglo people.

Truth is always fraught with impediments. Truth agreed with is a blessed duet. Truth confronting beloved vice will sever relationships, perpetrate flight, and uncover murderous rage. - Alexander Solzhenitsyn


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Noah The African in America
A rumor is a piece of unverified information. What Neo Nazi site has links to the Final Call website? Did u verify this or is this rumor as well. You claim Farrakhan has a shared hatred of Jews? But you have not proven Farrakhan hate Jewish people. Speaking truth concerning Jewish people is not hatred just as speaking truth concerning white folk is not hatred. Take time to verify what you heard before posting it on the web.

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The Black man and woman in America is a nation of people; a stolen and lost nation, but a nation none the less. The U.S. just destroyed Iraq in thirty days and has allocated close to $80 billion to rebuild Iraq. The Black man and woman in America was terrorized and destroyed for well over four hundred years. How much do you think it would take to rebuild a nation that was destroyed and bombed for four hundred years if it takes $80 billion to rebuild a nation destroyed in thirty days?


More to come later!

Your Brother Faheem
Look friend I am not trying to smear anyone's name or reputation. Do you think it was easy for me to investigate these rumours? I personally do not like Farakhan but I do agree that the NOI has been helpful in the black struggle and I have defended them on this board. This is just a topic I feel that black people can discuss and be truthful about.
If the NOI are not "perfect" like you claim then is it not possible that such an alliance could have occurred. I mean this is an organisation that stated another black man deserved to die. It is great that we focus on the good the NOI has done but no matter how painful it is we must look at some of its mistakes, just like how Americans have to look at mistakes their government has made around the world. Believe me I hope these stories are ramblings of a racist war monger. If they are we must disapprove them. Just saying "no they are not true, shut up and keep in line" without giving real reasons why they are not makes one look like a coward afraid to face a possibly imagined monster. I would never discuss this with a non black. At least black folk can admit to problems America faces and conflicts between races unlike the white racist that says "all is well, racism doesn't live here anymore".
You read a Book? Do you still recall the name of this book that I may read what you have read.

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The Black man and woman in America is a nation of people; a stolen and lost nation, but a nation none the less. The U.S. just destroyed Iraq in thirty days and has allocated close to $80 billion to rebuild Iraq. The Black man and woman in America was terrorized and destroyed for well over four hundred years. How much do you think it would take to rebuild a nation that was destroyed and bombed for four hundred years if it takes $80 billion to rebuild a nation destroyed in thirty days?


More to come later!

Your Brother Faheem
What is your Beef with Farrakhan?

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The Black man and woman in America is a nation of people; a stolen and lost nation, but a nation none the less. The U.S. just destroyed Iraq in thirty days and has allocated close to $80 billion to rebuild Iraq. The Black man and woman in America was terrorized and destroyed for well over four hundred years. How much do you think it would take to rebuild a nation that was destroyed and bombed for four hundred years if it takes $80 billion to rebuild a nation destroyed in thirty days?


More to come later!

Your Brother Faheem
I have had debates on predominately Anglo oriented forums where they offered to send my black @ss a plan ticket to Africa, just to get me out of their hair because I was simply lamenting the truth with revealed the Ugly devilishness they were attempting to portray themselves as not harboring. Thus, it is plausible, as the Obvious_1 noted, that if individuals or organizations that are antithetical in ideology and beliefs have a shared objective, that these groups would "work with" each other if it satisfied the interest and goal of each entity. Of course, they never sent me the money or the ticket to Africa Big Grin

Truth is always fraught with impediments. Truth agreed with is a blessed duet. Truth confronting beloved vice will sever relationships, perpetrate flight, and uncover murderous rage. - Alexander Solzhenitsyn


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Noah The African in America
My beef with Farakhan is his visit to Nigeria during his goodwill tour or something in the late 1990s. He met with the Nigerian head of state of the time General Sani Abacha to discuss God knows what. Could it be to discuss ways Abacha could stop oppressing the southern black christian and muslim community? Possibly but I know the real reason he visited Abacha. The same reason he wanted to visit Saddam and Qaadafi. All three had one thing in common: they were apparently all enemies of the U.S. This was all a stunt to piss off the U.S government nothing more.
quote:
Originally posted by Noah The African:

Of course, they never sent me the money or the ticket to Africa Big Grin



Yeah, that's the way it always happens, big on talk, small on action. I had a couple of people from another forum offer me a pair of tickets to Colombia. I was hoping for a free vacation, but did they send the tickets? Nieoooooooooooou! Roll Eyes Frown

"La vida te da sorpresas...
Sorpresas te da la vida...",
¡Ay, Dios!

Rubén Blades---Pedro Navaja


Plowshares Actions
The Nuclear Resister
School of the Americas Watch


quote:
Originally posted by maverick:
By the way Faheem I did verify some of these rumours. I read a book on Malcolm X that talked about his meetings with Klan members. At the time I too was afraid to look even further so I stopped reading.

What is the title and author of the book to which you refer? Also, which Neo Nazi sites have a link to the Final Call and how is it classified? Finally, do you have any other specific citations for your assertions.

God has told you, O man and woman, what is good; and what does the SOVEREIGN ONE require of you but to do justice, and to be compassionate, and to walk humbly with your God?
Maverick, on one hand you admit it is possible for him to have met with those heads of states to talk about the problems they are having in their countries but then you lament it was all a stunt to piss off the U.S. government and yet you do not provide any proof as to why you believe such. Does Pissing off the U.S. government make you dislike a Black man who has done nothing but good for the Black community? Are you a defender of the U.S. government against all who would do things to piss them off.

-------------------------
The Black man and woman in America is a nation of people; a stolen and lost nation, but a nation none the less. The U.S. just destroyed Iraq in thirty days and has allocated close to $80 billion to rebuild Iraq. The Black man and woman in America was terrorized and destroyed for well over four hundred years. How much do you think it would take to rebuild a nation that was destroyed and bombed for four hundred years if it takes $80 billion to rebuild a nation destroyed in thirty days?


More to come later!

Your Brother Faheem
Jesse Jackson often meets with heads of States of nations that were at odds with the US. He even went in and secured the release of hostages, when the US government failed to do so. I am sure that some of these government knew whet they were doing when they invited Jesse Jackson. They new it would tick off the US establishment to have this African from America and thorn in the side of the American Anglo elites come and do what the government failed to do.

I must say that I am rather gleeful of such activities. After our people have been oppressed for centuries by this nation, I like the idea that our leaders can do things that really tick them off. It seems like ticking them off is the only punitive power that we have for their criminal and unpaid crimes against our African humanity. So for me, such activity only gives them more support in my eyes.

Truth is always fraught with impediments. Truth agreed with is a blessed duet. Truth confronting beloved vice will sever relationships, perpetrate flight, and uncover murderous rage. - Alexander Solzhenitsyn


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`6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`)
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
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Noah The African in America
I agree Noah,

That is why the buffoonery azz movies like Barbershop makes me wonder about some of us.....some of the same fools talking schit about people like Jesse would still be relegated to some second-class jim crow conditions if it were not for the efforts of people like Jesse. They wouldn't be making their stupid azz movies or singing their tired azz songs and damn sure not live where they do. Notice how only black people really take the lead to denigrate their own to the extent they do? Even as f-ked up as bush and the republican party is.......despite enron and all that war "crime" in the name of "liberation".....no one else seems to be really railing on their own....especially to black people......and people can say what they like, Jesse has made the effort to address many an issue the self-hating negro would never get off their tired azz to even make an effort towards....amazing
I had written a response earlier but lost it in a glitch. Well... before I add my two cents check this out:
quote:
The LaRouche Cult and the Nation of Islam

The professional bigots of the Nation of Islam (NOI) and the Lyndon LaRouche organization have recently revived an ad hoc alliance to advance their attack on Jews and Jewish
organizations. They have held joint programs and street demonstrations to vilify the Anti-Defamation League for allegedly fostering the AIDS epidemic, promoting drugs and violence, and "attacking" black leaders. Much of their rhetoric has been confrontational and violence prone. The two fired a new incendiary salvo recently, suggesting that ADL is somehow involved in a plot to kill Minister Louis Farrakhan.


http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/orgs/american/adl/larouche-noi/larouche-noi
Yeah ... right!!! I can see it! A White Supremacy group longing for the days of strong Black, militant leadership... lol


... Oh. I forgot to say I did a simple search:
>> NOI KKK meeting and got a number of sites <<
Maybe I should have made myself clear. I wanted to be proven wrong. I got some of my info from a black newspaper in Britain. A black person objected to Farakhan visiting the U.K(which I supported by the way) for fear of racial violence. He brought up the Tom Metzgar incident. On the internet I too saw posts apparently written by black men talking about the Klan meetings. I already knew about the Marcus Garvey incident so to me it didn't seem too farfetched a story.

Maybe I should have said I hope instead of hoped these are rumours. My mistake, I apologise. I am very sure about the book I read though. I will definately find the book again and the author. As for the site I bumped into one from a lady anti-semite. There definately was a link to the Final Call. I will try and find the site again. Watch this space.

As for Farakhan I never heard him condemn Abacha's actions. As unbelievable as it sounds I am not the only african that doesn't like Farakhan. Abacha named a street after him but once he died the street was renamed. I try to be a man of my word so if you can show me where he condemned Abacha I will take back all the things I said about him. And please dont compare me to Cedric's character in the barbershop. If I really wanted to humiliate our black leaders I would post on mainstream message boards like the New York Times. Right now I'm keeping it black e.g between us.
The name of the book that I read about the NOI's dealings with Neo-nazi's for financial purposes only is called "The Seventh Child:Family Memoirs of MalcolmX" by Rodnell Collins. This was one of the many reasons Malcolm X left the Nation of Islam as detailed in this book.

Our people have made the mistake of confusing the methods with the objectives. As long as we agree on objectives, we should never fall out with each other just because we believe in different methods, or tactics, or strategy. We have to keep in mind at all times that we are not fighting for separation. We are fighting for recognition as free humans in this society
Malcolm X, 1965
Okay Maverick so what's the conclusion??

I can't say that I have read the book and obviously wouldn't be convinced as others have said without some evidence.... though nothing has been said to the extent or degree of the claims...

What's the deal?

We deal with the U.S. gov't. They too, as an entity, did and still participate, allow, sanction measures that are harmful to us (and to a greater degree than the KKK ever could...)...

I'm sorry... but I am not one of those people who thinks groups like KKK are our "biggest" worries... It wasn't the KKK that enslaved us and, if anything, they are but a small wing in the whole White Supremacy apparatus. A very small, now out-molded wing...IMO.

Yssys...
I would be interested in your findings on the book.
Maverick...

I'll quote KEVIN's response to your other post to corroborate my last statement:
    I think the most dangerous racist is a *white conservative politician*....because with the stroke of a pen, they can adversely affect millions of black citizens.....to me the rest are petty bigots in comparison.
I really wouldn't limit it to just con's or neo-con's. Some "liberal" Whites too are at enmity with our cause and because of the greater power - the power of the pen, as KEVIN said and, perhaps more importantly the power of the purse that goes along with the policy (or non-policy) - makes even the brutal historical efforts of the KKK pale in comparison.

I can't authoritatively stipulate to this but the rank & file Klan probably never owned slaves but just served as the elite white power structure hound dogs for uppity Blacks initially. Then the competition Blacks posed these mostly lower-class whites manifested in their own repressive actions against us to reserve their relative privilege over us.
Nmaginate,

I still see conservatives as outright punitive from a policy standpoint, whereas I see liberals as more indifferent and deceptive in nature. They(liberals) would have never gained black alliances the way they have in the past. The bottom line is......they are all whites who are working to preserve power and privelege for themselves..some of them just need blacks to gain power...One is just a PERCEIVED lesser evil than the other.....
quote:
The bottom line is......they are all whites who are working to preserve power and privelege for themselves..some of them just need blacks to gain power...One is just a PERCEIVED lesser evil than the other..... - KEVIN
That was exactly my point...

I just can't see (well I guess it's understandable) how we act like the KKK was/is the biggest thing to fear. It's like what you allude to. Liberals are more deceptive which means that Conservatives and extremist like the KKK have pronounced views that save all the guess work - you know where they stand.

It's easier to prepare for any 'enemy' that you know than one who hides in the bushes...

KEVIN, I think we're on the same page on this.
Malcolm X called them the WOLF & the FOX and said they're all in cahoots:
    " ...they are all whites who are working to preserve power and privelege for themselves..."
That about sums it up!
quote:
Yssys...
I would be interested in your findings on the book.


Well, I read the book a couple of times as I am very interested in the life and ideology of Malcolm X. This book was really a memoir of him by his nephew Rodnell Collins and his deceased sister Ella Collins. Also with the aid of friend and author Peter Bailey.
What I found interesting about this book was they gave his life from the perspective of his sister and other family members. I think that added another texture to his life that many people overlook in favor of his ministry.
I didn't know that Malcolm X had several attempts on his life prior to his assasination. There were at least 2 attempts on his pilgrimage to Africa. Another thing that humanized him was that he was in fact a person who enjoyed doing things like eating pecan pies that his aunts in Boston made for he and his sister. Other things also that humanized him was his conscience about some of the things that went on in the NOI as time progressed as noticed by he and his sister Ella who were both members of the Nation. However, he was such a good Muslim that he overlooked some things. His sister Ella, left the NOI and became a traditional sunni Muslim.
There were things like George Rockwell donating money to the NOI and being allowed to attend Savior's Day with a few of his high ranking members, in the front row no less! There allegations that the National minister, John Ali (?) and Elijah Muhammed's children were pilfering money for their own personal gains as well as Elijah Muhammed. There were incidents of members being forced to give although they had already given to attend functions like Savior's Day. There were quotas on temple's on how much they were to raise every month. Also it is alleged that John Ali was in fact a turn coat FBI iformant. Wait, I think that's in a book by Karl Evanzz. These things are what the book alledges that happened back then.

My take on it is this Malcolm X was a good man who did his personal best to serve God and serve his people.



Our people have made the mistake of confusing the methods with the objectives. As long as we agree on objectives, we should never fall out with each other just because we believe in different methods, or tactics, or strategy. We have to keep in mind at all times that we are not fighting for separation. We are fighting for recognition as free humans in this society
Malcolm X, 1965
So what is my conclusion? It is a known fact that the Klan feared the Nation of Islam so it was probably the chicken shit KKK that called for the meetings. There was probably a method to Elijah's madness that Malcolm didn't see. Heck I can't even see it. Personally I would have invited the white racists in and beaten the hell out of them. But thats just me.

The other incidents I mentioned are probably not true and I know Farakhan is not an anti-semite. He is even allowed into Israel and speaks with Orthodox or Unorthodox Jews and has even tried to have peaceful discussions with Jewish leaders. I was just saying what I heard and I never said the reports were true, apart from the book on Malcolm X. If the other incidents were true then I hope there was some method to the madness.
It is obvious that there could or should be a connections or alliance between the Nation of Islam and the KKK because both groups want the exact same things; to oppress women, exploit religous beliefs and to be racial segregation. Also, I have seen Klan members being interviewed on talk shows on more than one occasion over the years who praise the Nation of Islam and actually say that its because the Klan and the Nation of Islam want the same things. It would not be inconcievable for me to believe that Malcom X meet with or consorted with the Klan before his awakening to the truth of Islam and while still under the cult like spell of the Nation of Islam; however, afterwards, I am sure that Malcom X came to see the Klan for what it really was as he did the Nation of Islam--the realizations and protests of which got him assinated. I personally believe that the Nation of Islam is anything from just a religous organization to a cult, depending on how deep you are into it. I know of all the good that the Nation of Islam does, depending on who you are and where you live in this country, but, there were plantation owners that did "good" things for their slaves. I just cannot see the difference. As far as the Klan is concerned, they are no longer poor rednecks running down lone black men on dark, deserted streets; they are now in the Senate, the House, the White House - they are your doctors, lawyers, school superintendents, the people you spend your money with everyday - the redneck stereo-type of the Klan is only true in rare instances that rarely affect African Americans directly. There was some mention of Jews fostering the AIDs epidemic; the aids virus should be accredited the the germ warfare efforst of the US, German and Japanese government/military scientists. - - And African Americans, as we protect ourselves and fight against this neo-genocide campaign should never forget along the way that this virus was created in a lab and that the green monkey theory of this virus is more propaganda that the the virus creators new they could rely on the keep people from demanding the truth of the virus' origin.
http://www.plp.org/TheCommunist1/noi.html

...Marable continued, "The NOI's relationship with the White Right was first revealed by Malcolm X, soon after his departure from the organization. At the height of the Civil Rights Movement across the South, many white racists and ultraconservatives came to the conclusion that the racially separatist views of Elijah Muhammad were clearly preferable to the integrationism of Martin Luther King, Jr. The NOI's key go-between with the white supremacists was John X Ali, identified by authors Louis Lomax and Karl Evanzz as the FBI's top informant within the organization. Soon after John X. Ali had been named the NOI's national secretary in early 1960, Texas millionaire H.L. Hunt began to send funds to the NOI. According to Evanzz, John X. Ali suggested that the Nation establish a dialogue with the Ku Klux Klan and the American Nazi Party, which might lead to the purchase of land in the deep south. According to FBI records, on January 28, 1961, a meeting between Ku Klux Klan representatives and the Nation, including Malcolm X, was held in Atlanta....
I apologize, but I haven't had time to read through this thread carefully. Could someone please summarize what the point or contention is? Are people disappointed that the NOI may have communicated or collaborated with the KKK? Why? From a purely tactical standpoint (as others have said) they certainly shared goals. They just viewed their objectives from opposite sides.

If working together could have helped to achieve each of their objectives, and if you support the objectives of the NOI, why is the association with the KKK problematic?


There is no passion to be found playing small, in settling for a life
that is less than the one you are capable of living. - Mandela
quote:
I just found it disturbing that NOI would associate with a group that killed thousands of their brothers and sisters.

Well, if that's how you judge then then NOI objectives of "separatism" should have definitely be sought if African-Americans were to completely disassociate with people or group(s) that were complicit, actively or not, in the death and murder of our people. We should still be seeking separatism then.

And how many congressmen should we shun??

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