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quote:
Originally posted by IMMORTAL LOGIC:
Okay, everything I've ever read or heard on the lemba people, they always stated that they were from Yemen originally, or hebrew communities from egypt. they also have stated that their sacred text were destroyed by arabs. So no, I'm not a "trickster" your just wrong, sis. And don't mistake Ethiopian hebrews desperation with confusion. And the fact still remains that Ethiopia and Nubia were already studying old and new scriptures while the majority of europe were still with their tribal deities. The point is, africans had these text in there posession long before europeans. And their are still historians who track the migration of hebrew from east to west. The lemba people. West african women claims her hebrew roots I put more up later...if you want.


I've already read that site a looong time ago. You may just have been confused...but to me your lack of direct response...your side stepping the issue... means you are being a trickster... You gave the example of the Lemba and Beta Isreal as if they were/are our direct ancestors, knowing full well(unless I am giving you too much credit) that they are from regions currently(and via the sites migration theory) that WERE NOT BROUGHT OVER HERE TO THE WEST IN SLAVE SHIPS. The Yoruba, Fon, Akon, Ashante, Mandinka, ect. were. Why do you not know about or deal with our DIRECT ancestors spiritual practices that had NOTHING to do with the Bible? The European enslaver and colonizer forced the Helio Biblio perspective on us....period.

I stated this...

On top of all of this...Our (if you are a diaspora born African) ancestors DID NOT have the Bible until the colonizers and enslavers came... And I personally don't think they needed it(of course)...Now why aren't we studying the spiritual systems of our direct ancestors?

You answered with this...

No. That not true at all. The Lemba people to the south, Bet Yisrael to the east, And more the one ancient arab historian that refers to the hebrews migrating sub-saharan, Or detailing capturing hebrew peoples in africa and forcfully converting them to islam. You might want to look farther into this statement.

Now tell me, are you now trying to say the Lemba people in ZIMBABWE that claim a connection to YEMEN and the Beta Isreal of ETHIOPIA were brought over to the Amerikkkas in slave ships? You have to come better than this....


quote:
Sooo...do you have proof of these societies being knock offs, or are you just stating opinion again?


Think about it. African people are the oldest right? The Nile valley and Great Lakes region are where the oldest human civilizations existed. Are you trying to imply that African people, needed outside migrations into this area, millenia after they had established civilizations, spiritual systems, ect.. to come up with a similar and almost identical God concept and mythos? As notoriousely spiritual and religious as African people are you should know better. If you honestly believe that the Helio Biblio was written before the great monuments of the Nile Valley complex were erected, that just so happens depict in stone, on their walls, THE SAME MYTHOS that are in the Helio Biblio...and that's just a coincidence...I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you...

Read the site. Read Dr. Yosef Ben-Jochannan, and the other authors mentioned on the site, then get back to me. Here is a book you might like...it is written by an Askenaz Jew who is a biblical scholar and an Egyptologist...He actually published the pre-existing Kemetic(and other) texts side by side with the much later written Biblical texts that copied them...

101 Myths of the Bible: How Ancient Scribes Invented Biblical History

http://www.phil-books.com/101_Myths_of_the_Bible_How_Ancient_Scribes_Invented_Biblical_History_1570718423.html


quote:
Are these your words & opinions, or theirs? because if it's their I'd really love to read it


About the Lemba...This is a fact. Much like you, as a diasporan African are trying to connect yourself to the politically dominant Bibical tradition and religion...dominant via global Euro-colonization. What do you think colonized people do? Are you sure that website isn't just stating biased opinion? Most of the time info is gathered from "European explorers and adventurers" that have the money and resources to go "find" these people and "interview" them via an interpretor of course. Often times this info is quoted or used as fact by our people, not taking into account the inherant biases of the sources. (Have you ever played telephone as a child where you pass a message through a line of people...What happens by the time it gets to the 4th person?) And don't forget. The Europeans have a MAJOR bias. Biblical as well as racial goggles. I have many friends from Zimbabwe. They have told me that the Lemba were largely led to believe they have Jewish origins because of the Euro settler colinizers insistance that the Mines of Soloman were in Zimbabwe(then Rhodesia) and that the local people...Couldn't have built the stone structure "the Great Zimbabwe"...and since the Semetic people built the pyramids...They MUST have travelled south and built that structure. Because there is no way native Bantu Africans could have done it. Mind you, these are the same folk who believe in racial superiority and instituted apartheid... Since the Lemba were under their rule, and this was the official state histoy of Great Zimbabwe until independance in 1970...You don't think they absorbed this?

I've seen websites that claim the Shroud of Turin proves that Selassie is the reincarnation of Yeshua(Jesus)because he actully does look alittle like the figure shown...Just because the site says it do I believe it? If I lack information maybe...

quote:
Thank you for the site I'm going to start reading when I get in. If the papri of ani isn't there I'll do an engine search and give you my opinion later. But as for my "blinders", just because one disagrees with you doesn't mean they have blinders on. The "proof text" I provided are anything but biblical. But but still verify the bible. To me it seems you are the one who dismisses all writings from various sources if they don't fit your beliefs with little to to verify those claims (i.e.blinders). Like I said I have quotes from ancient historians (non biblical)as well as numerous illuminati factions to back up all I say


You are welcome...do you think the illuminatti is going to tell you the truth when they want to oppress EVERYONE? Do you think the illuminati are going to tell non-members the truth?...You can't be that nieve. Their whole purpose os to keep informaton to themselves and manipulate world events...to keep the masses stupid. Information is power.

I find it interesting that you have already formed the opinion that I have blinders on, but I have read source material you haven't been exposed to and admittedly(by your silence) haven't read. Shouldn't a judgement call be made AFTER you compaired the info presented? I understand it is a knee jerk reaction to reject information you are not familiar with, especially in this society...But is it logical to do so? What does that say about your ability to form unbiased opinions? The only reason I feel comfortable stating that I think you have Biblical blinders on os because I am already aware of the information that you have posted. And have studied it at great length. If I hadn't I wouldn't make such a comment. Ask yurself why you are comfortable doing so.

It's not your fault you haven't been exposed to certain iformation(up until this point). The system is designed to keep us ignorant. But you have to see the irony in someone arguing that the spiritual concepts of the African people of Kemet didn't predede the Helio biblio...I mean...come on... Even white folks admit that...(Even though they make the Egyptians white) It is only your fault if you choose not to learn further information.

My feeling about this discussion is kind of like this. It's like a woman who is mother, she comes across another woman discussing children, she can tell right away from what the other woman says and how she acts that the woman has no children and is not a mother. Why would she feel like arguing/debating about children with the childless woman? What would the point be? Wouldn't it just irritate her? Wouldn't she just say "have children and you will see"...On top of this, since I am a woman wiht no children, I would not be arrogant enough to form opinions about what type of mother the woman with children is. I would have to humble myself and not argue with her because I lack her level of information about the subject, and I know I do. So why would I even bother? I would have to have some children to even feel comfortable discussing the subject with other mothers.

I had a friend the other day do the same thing in conversation. He tried to argue about the information in the gnostic texts but doesn't have one gnostic text in his home and has never read any of them...Didn't even know about there existance prior to my mentioning them. He claimed to "have studied this information"...When I asked, "How can you claim to know or have studied something you never read, that you haven't even seen or heard of before, and had no access to?"...He finally admitted he couldn't.(After much internal struggle) Then I offered him a gnostic text, and he still wanted to argue/debate, before reading it! Very funny and sad at the same time.

The internet is a good source of information but books are the best. You may have a very hard time finding the Papyrus of Ani( sometimes spelled Anu) online...except maybe a few referrances. All the sources you have metnioned I read quite some time ago. You haven't been exposed to some of the info I have mentioned. Read and study the MDW NTR(Medu Neteru/Netcher)...That will take about 5 years.
Zep Tepi(the beginning/Genesis) is calling. And then maybe you will be ready to remove the Biblical goggles and reinstate the practices of your direct ancestors...In honor of their memory...the memory of what we once were, and still are, and still can be.

This site has video tapes I highly recommend. The actullay go to Africa and show the stone buildings that have Our story on them. This way you can see it for yourself instead of just reading a book "about" it...

http://kemetnu.com/videos/index.html
This is the best and fastest "breakdown" I could find...It's from a Rasta on another board I frequent.

In ancient Afrikan cultures like Kush and Kemet, Afrikans developed what is known as the Chi-Rho (handled or sword cross). One of the bars of this cross has a loop on it to represent a sword with a handle. This is the symbol of the Afrikan Deity known as Harpocrates and Chr-Amon (Heru). This god of light was crucified, rose from the dead, and destroyed the forces of evil. (sound familiar?)

In the second century B.C. the Greeks borrowed this cross from the Afrikans, calling Harpocrates (Heru)= Hero-Horus-Heracles (Hercules). Shortly thereafter the same Deity was named by the Greeks Xpnc (Chres) or Lord, Chrestos, and Christ. Many European scholars (including Christian scholars) have identified Heracles/Hercules as none other than an emblem of Y'shua the Christ. This reveals the Afrikan origin of the word, Christ. Bear in mind that the names Heracles, Hercules, Hero, and Christ are also titles directly derived from the word HERU which is of Afrikan(Kemetic) origin. The Greek title Christ, is derived from the Kemetic word KARAST. KRISTOS or CHRISTOS is the KRST (KARAST). Karast is a person who is anointed as a Heru (Hero) during their lifetime, when they are deceased, they receive a great honor as a KRST or AUSAR (Osiris). Their bodies are anointed with spices, oils, and resins to preserve the body. The body is wrapped in bandages, placed in a coffin, the coffin is placed upright to symbolize resurrection. Afrikan people believed that the Herus (Heroes) or Krsts (Christs) would rise again to save the world as fully divine beings. "He has risen." The Afro-Asians (Hebrews, Jews, Black Semites) brought this tradition out of Kemet. Y'shua has the title of a Christ...An annointed one...a messiah.

The word MESSIAH is from the Kemetic/Afrikan words MESSU and MES-IAH. MES=child and to be born. This is one of the epithets or names of Heru (KRST, Christ) the Son. MESSU also means the anointed one. MES-IAH literally means "the Son of Yah (God). YAH is the Kemetic YAHWEH who was worshipped by the Kemites (they knew who He was). The Hebrews were those Nubians, Kushites, Kemites, Afro-Asians, and nomadic Semites who broke away from Kemet/Afrika, separating from their own people.

The story of Y'shua is not unique to Christianity. Neither is the Icept(concept) of the Christ. I think ones need to get as close to the ROOT as possible instead on clinging on to the branches.

Bless
selassieilive
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
quote:
Originally posted by IMMORTAL LOGIC:
I already told you, if having the last word makes you feel like a bigshot them just say so.


If I were interested in having "the last word," I would not have waited I think it was four or five days before I responded to your last post. So busy discussing matters in the Sista's Spot, I forgot that I was even participating in a discussion over here. On the subject of "articles," anyone that has a credible education knows that simply providing people with articles to read is not sufficient evidence to prove that what you believe is true. Articles are written by people with biases and personal perspectives. And often times, people will selectively choose to rely on the testimony of those who have the same ideals and values that they have and filter out and/or ignore the perspectives of those whose values and perspectives are unfamilar. This is why you are experiencing trouble acknowledging your egocentric attitude with respect to African traditions. Someone you trust has shared an opinion with you that is indifferent to this aspect of African tradition, you have adopted and accepted their opinion into your "schema" of knowledge, and your acceptance is preventing you from thinking differently. Yet as an American who has no relationship to African customs, it honestly does not matter whether or not you approve of female circumcision. It is apart of African tradition so you need to respect that, period. Just as those who live outside of America are expected to respect American women who pierce, enlarge, and tatoo their clitoris for "fun."
*yawn* It's time to put up or shut up.
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
This is the best and fastest "breakdown" I could find...It's from a Rasta on another board I frequent.

In ancient Afrikan cultures like Kush and Kemet, Afrikans developed what is known as the Chi-Rho (handled or sword cross). One of the bars of this cross has a loop on it to represent a sword with a handle. This is the symbol of the Afrikan Deity known as Harpocrates and Chr-Amon (Heru). This god of light was crucified, rose from the dead, and destroyed the forces of evil. (sound familiar?)

In the second century B.C. the Greeks borrowed this cross from the Afrikans, calling Harpocrates (Heru)= Hero-Horus-Heracles (Hercules). Shortly thereafter the same Deity was named by the Greeks Xpnc (Chres) or Lord, Chrestos, and Christ. Many European scholars (including Christian scholars) have identified Heracles/Hercules as none other than an emblem of Y'shua the Christ. This reveals the Afrikan origin of the word, Christ. Bear in mind that the names Heracles, Hercules, Hero, and Christ are also titles directly derived from the word HERU which is of Afrikan(Kemetic) origin. The Greek title Christ, is derived from the Kemetic word KARAST. KRISTOS or CHRISTOS is the KRST (KARAST). Karast is a person who is anointed as a Heru (Hero) during their lifetime, when they are deceased, they receive a great honor as a KRST or AUSAR (Osiris). Their bodies are anointed with spices, oils, and resins to preserve the body. The body is wrapped in bandages, placed in a coffin, the coffin is placed upright to symbolize resurrection. Afrikan people believed that the Herus (Heroes) or Krsts (Christs) would rise again to save the world as fully divine beings. "He has risen." The Afro-Asians (Hebrews, Jews, Black Semites) brought this tradition out of Kemet. Y'shua has the title of a Christ...An annointed one...a messiah.

The word MESSIAH is from the Kemetic/Afrikan words MESSU and MES-IAH. MES=child and to be born. This is one of the epithets or names of Heru (KRST, Christ) the Son. MESSU also means the anointed one. MES-IAH literally means "the Son of Yah (God). YAH is the Kemetic YAHWEH who was worshipped by the Kemites (they knew who He was). The Hebrews were those Nubians, Kushites, Kemites, Afro-Asians, and nomadic Semites who broke away from Kemet/Afrika, separating from their own people.

The story of Y'shua is not unique to Christianity. Neither is the Icept(concept) of the Christ. I think ones need to get as close to the ROOT as possible instead on clinging on to the branches.

Bless
selassieilive
Okay. and what's HIS source of information?
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
quote:
Originally posted by IMMORTAL LOGIC:
Okay, everything I've ever read or heard on the lemba people, they always stated that they were from Yemen originally, or hebrew communities from egypt. they also have stated that their sacred text were destroyed by arabs. So no, I'm not a "trickster" your just wrong, sis. And don't mistake Ethiopian hebrews desperation with confusion. And the fact still remains that Ethiopia and Nubia were already studying old and new scriptures while the majority of europe were still with their tribal deities. The point is, africans had these text in there posession long before europeans. And their are still historians who track the migration of hebrew from east to west. The lemba people. West african women claims her hebrew roots I put more up later...if you want.


I've already read that site a looong time ago. You may just have been confused...

So why did you state they were from zimbabwe and not immigrates to the area?

but to me your lack of direct response...your side stepping the issue... means you are being a trickster...

Did you read the second article, with the sista from ghana? did I not say I'll provide more if you like...or is she just clueless as well?

You gave the example of the Lemba and Beta Isreal as if they were/are our direct ancestors,

You right to an extent. Being both of African american and Ethiopian decent when you said our ancestors I automatically in my mind incorporated Ethiopians, in my mind.

knowing full well(unless I am giving you too much credit) that they are from regions currently(and via the sites migration theory) that WERE NOT BROUGHT OVER HERE TO THE WEST IN SLAVE SHIPS. The Yoruba, Fon, Akon, Ashante, Mandinka, ect. were. Why do you not know about or deal with our DIRECT ancestors spiritual practices that had NOTHING to do with the Bible? The European enslaver and colonizer forced the Helio Biblio perspective on us....period.

If these teachings were in east africa, do you think it impossible that it could mak it's way to the west as Hebrews migrated to the west to escape Arabs & Romans? And I already to told you this has been documented by arab historians and slave traders. And if you want that info(which you never asked for so I'll assume you don't) just ask.

I stated this...

On top of all of this...Our (if you are a diaspora born African) ancestors DID NOT have the Bible until the colonizers and enslavers came... And I personally don't think they needed it(of course)...Now why aren't we studying the spiritual systems of our direct ancestors?

You answered with this...

[i]No. That not true at all. The Lemba people to the south, Bet Yisrael to the east, And more the one ancient arab historian that refers to the hebrews migrating sub-saharan, Or detailing capturing hebrew peoples in africa and forcfully converting them to islam. You might want to look farther into this statement.


Now tell me, are you now trying to say the Lemba people in ZIMBABWE that claim a connection to YEMEN and the Beta Isreal of ETHIOPIA were brought over to the Amerikkkas in slave ships? You have to come better than this....

Read my above comments above. They were Not the only ones, There was a MIGRATION, from east to west. I provided you with an article of a hebrew born women from ghana(which you've most likely dismissd as being ignorant to her own history) and told you, on request I'll provide more.

quote:
Sooo...do you have proof of these societies being knock offs, or are you just stating opinion again?


Think about it. African people are the oldest right? The Nile valley and Great Lakes region are where the oldest human civilizations existed. Are you trying to imply that African people, needed outside migrations into this area, millenia after they had established civilizations, spiritual systems, ect.. to come up with a similar and almost identical God concept and mythos? As notoriousely spiritual and religious as African people are you should know better. If you honestly believe that the Helio Biblio was written before the great monuments of the Nile Valley complex were erected, that just so happens depict in stone, on their walls, THE SAME MYTHOS that are in the Helio Biblio...and that's just a coincidence...I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you...

I'll take this to mean your answer is "No". Alot of theory, but that about it.

Read the site. Read Dr. Yosef Ben-Jochannan, and the other authors mentioned on the site, then get back to me. Here is a book you might like...it is written by an Askenaz Jew who is a biblical scholar [i]and
an Egyptologist...He actually published the pre-existing Kemetic(and other) texts side by side with the much later written Biblical texts that copied them...

101 Myths of the Bible: How Ancient Scribes Invented Biblical History

http://www.phil-books.com/101_Myths_of_the_Bible_How_Ancient_Scribes_Invented_Biblical_History_1570718423.html

thanks, I'll sort through it, but a great deal of what I'm seeing on here so far has already been debunked in "The Two Babylons". But I'll sort through it anyway.

quote:
Are these your words & opinions, or theirs? because if it's their I'd really love to read it


About the Lemba...This is a fact. Much like you, as a diasporan African are trying to connect yourself to the politically dominant Bibical tradition and religion...dominant via global Euro-colonization. What do you think colonized people do? Are you sure that website isn't just stating biased opinion? Most of the time info is gathered from "European explorers and adventurers" that have the money and resources to go "find" these people and "interview" them via an interpretor of course. Often times this info is quoted or used as fact by our people, not taking into account the inherant biases of the sources. (Have you ever played telephone as a child where you pass a message through a line of people...What happens by the time it gets to the 4th person?) And don't forget. The Europeans have a MAJOR bias. Biblical as well as racial goggles. I have many friends from Zimbabwe. They have told me that the Lemba were largely led to believe they have Jewish origins because of the Euro settler colinizers insistance that the Mines of Soloman were in Zimbabwe(then Rhodesia) and that the local people...Couldn't have built the stone structure "the Great Zimbabwe"...and since the Semetic people built the pyramids...They MUST have travelled south and built that structure. Because there is no way native Bantu Africans could have done it. Mind you, these are the same folk who believe in racial superiority and instituted apartheid... Since the Lemba were under their rule, and this was the official state histoy of Great Zimbabwe until independance in 1970...You don't think they absorbed this?

Then PUT UP YOUR SOURCE. When I make a statement, I am fully aare that i have to meet the burden off proof. So I list all sources, and and also so they can be scrutinized over. I told you I'd like to do the same. Unless your "friend" is your only proof

I've seen websites that claim the Shroud of Turin proves that Selassie is the reincarnation of Yeshua(Jesus)because he actully does look alittle like the figure shown...Just because the site says it do I believe it? If I lack information maybe...

So again don't just say X,Y,&Z back it up! not with your personal opinions & theories with actual reference material that can also be looked into, for credibility.

quote:
Thank you for the site I'm going to start reading when I get in. If the papri of ani isn't there I'll do an engine search and give you my opinion later. But as for my "blinders", just because one disagrees with you doesn't mean they have blinders on. The "proof text" I provided are anything but biblical. But but still verify the bible. To me it seems you are the one who dismisses all writings from various sources if they don't fit your beliefs with little to to verify those claims (i.e.blinders). Like I said I have quotes from ancient historians (non biblical)as well as numerous illuminati factions to back up all I say


You are welcome...do you think the illuminatti is going to tell you the truth when they want to oppress EVERYONE? Do you think the illuminati are going to tell non-members the truth?...You can't be that nieve. Their whole purpose os to keep informaton to themselves and manipulate world events...to keep the masses stupid. Information is power.

These are books, by them, to them, for them. And testimonies of those who left (and in most case have "disappared"). But I guess you wouldn't know because you never requested the rest of the information...you just dismissed it. Besides if they were masters at supressing all info on them you & I wouldn't be talking about them now.

I find it interesting that you have already formed the opinion that I have blinders on, but I have read source material you haven't been exposed to and admittedly(by your silence) haven't read. Shouldn't a judgement call be made AFTER you compaired the info presented? I understand it is a knee jerk reaction to reject information you are not familiar with, especially in this society...But is it logical to do so? What does that say about your ability to form unbiased opinions? The only reason I feel comfortable stating that I think you have Biblical blinders on os because I am already aware of the information that you have posted. And have studied it at great length. If I hadn't I wouldn't make such a comment. Ask yurself why you are comfortable doing so.

Who are you, Rowe now? I admit, The Papri of Ani is new to me...at least it might be. I've read so much on Kemet, egypt, whatever, I can't remember what's what until I see it again. But any way, you really don't know what I've read in order to make this statement. Yes I used to go to lectures by DR.Ben & Dr. Clark and am familiar with his teachings. Although, must say I'm a little bit surprised at his religion. The two time I saw him speak, he was asked the same question of "What god do you worship?" "What religion do yo practice?" Once by Prof. griff of Public Enemy and once by just some dude. And in both cases he gave the same answer. That he had no god and worshiped his wife. That when he was sick or ill It was his wife that fed him an "wiped his backside" No god did any of these things for him. But anyway I've read much on Egypt but still came to different conclusions.

It's not your fault you haven't been exposed to certain iformation(up until this point). The system is designed to keep us ignorant. But you have to see the irony in someone arguing that the spiritual concepts of the African people of Kemet didn't predede the Helio biblio...I mean...come on...

Yet again, you don't know what I've been exposed to. And still again,that is why I looked to outside sources some Unbiased Some Extremely biased against my beliefs Who've been around since The tower of babel And they still conferm my story. And they still proclaim my mythical "water god" As their true enemy in many text.

Even white folks admit that...

Now hold up, Why are white sources who are somewhat counter to your argument quickly dismissed, for being euro, but now permitted, now that that it is proclaiming yur disposition?

(Even though they make the Egyptians white) It is only your fault if you choose not to learn further information.

I should be saying this to you. I promised you a wealth of info if you request and you say nothing. Then assume what I've read, Then assume you've already been there. So tell me O' Amazing Kreskin, What books and historians,and info do I have, that you've already read? List aand debunk them.


http://kemetnu.com/videos/index.html
Thanks for the site, I'll look into it as well. I guess the problem I have with your argument is their are to many leaps and not enough bridges. You have to make too many assupmtions (IMO).
If you assume Alexander Hisop Does'nt kow what he's talking about. And if you assume Flavius Josephus,Diordorus Scilarus, And a host of other ancient historians don't know what there talking about.
And If yu assume that freemasons,illuminati, and a score of other secret societies and "luminist" are actually later knock offs, who stole all these secrets, except the one which states that, lord they've been ordered to war against was just made up, therefore making them halfwits who don't know what they are talking about.
And most of the experts on these secret societies where european so they did'nt know what they where talking about.
And that the lemba and various other tribes that say they are of Hebrew decent were desperate or "confused" And didn't know what they were talking about.
Then I would be able to cearly see that you ARE the only one who DOES know what there talking about. But because of MY "blinders" I can't see it.
quote:
Originally posted by IMMORTAL LOGIC:
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
This is the best and fastest "breakdown" I could find...It's from a Rasta on another board I frequent.

In ancient Afrikan cultures like Kush and Kemet, Afrikans developed what is known as the Chi-Rho (handled or sword cross). One of the bars of this cross has a loop on it to represent a sword with a handle. This is the symbol of the Afrikan Deity known as Harpocrates and Chr-Amon (Heru). This god of light was crucified, rose from the dead, and destroyed the forces of evil. (sound familiar?)

In the second century B.C. the Greeks borrowed this cross from the Afrikans, calling Harpocrates (Heru)= Hero-Horus-Heracles (Hercules). Shortly thereafter the same Deity was named by the Greeks Xpnc (Chres) or Lord, Chrestos, and Christ. Many European scholars (including Christian scholars) have identified Heracles/Hercules as none other than an emblem of Y'shua the Christ. This reveals the Afrikan origin of the word, Christ. Bear in mind that the names Heracles, Hercules, Hero, and Christ are also titles directly derived from the word HERU which is of Afrikan(Kemetic) origin. The Greek title Christ, is derived from the Kemetic word KARAST. KRISTOS or CHRISTOS is the KRST (KARAST). Karast is a person who is anointed as a Heru (Hero) during their lifetime, when they are deceased, they receive a great honor as a KRST or AUSAR (Osiris). Their bodies are anointed with spices, oils, and resins to preserve the body. The body is wrapped in bandages, placed in a coffin, the coffin is placed upright to symbolize resurrection. Afrikan people believed that the Herus (Heroes) or Krsts (Christs) would rise again to save the world as fully divine beings. "He has risen." The Afro-Asians (Hebrews, Jews, Black Semites) brought this tradition out of Kemet. Y'shua has the title of a Christ...An annointed one...a messiah.

The word MESSIAH is from the Kemetic/Afrikan words MESSU and MES-IAH. MES=child and to be born. This is one of the epithets or names of Heru (KRST, Christ) the Son. MESSU also means the anointed one. MES-IAH literally means "the Son of Yah (God). YAH is the Kemetic YAHWEH who was worshipped by the Kemites (they knew who He was). The Hebrews were those Nubians, Kushites, Kemites, Afro-Asians, and nomadic Semites who broke away from Kemet/Afrika, separating from their own people.

The story of Y'shua is not unique to Christianity. Neither is the Icept(concept) of the Christ. I think ones need to get as close to the ROOT as possible instead on clinging on to the branches.

Bless
selassieilive
Okay. and what's HIS source of information?


Largely the Papayrus of Ani/Anu/Nu and the other sources I have mentioned that you have not investigated yet.
LOL...To your other post.

I'm a mother with children talking to someone with no children. I know you don't understand that. It is quite obvious to me though.

If you read ONE book of Dr. Ben you would know that he was born a Beta Isreal. It is in EVERY SINGLE ONE. You didn't even realize when you met him(I met him too) he was talking about the GODDESS!(aka the veneration of his wife...the devine feminine)...I love Dr. Ben man...He speaks in parables...but most don't get him...because they don't study...and we've been trained to think literally under this world shitstem...

If you don't know what the Papayrus of Ani is you must have only read stuff that briefly mentioned KMT and the Nile Valley/Great Lakes region. That's like someone claiming to have read about the Bible but not knowing what the Old Testament is...You would laugh at them.


You might want to check out the Twa too. I mentioned them B4...

It seems that you like to passively learn...by internet and lectures. Hit the books. You'd get so much more out of the former if you do. You keep asking for sources but haven't even read the material I've given you access to. I've given you all the bridges you need. It is up to you to cross them. I can't and won't do the work for you or anyone else. I had to do the work myself, so do you.

If there was something you mentioned I hadn't already studied I would have asked about it. I'm not arrogant enough to stop learning. I love to learn and would have asked you for more info. Everything you have mentioned and referanced I already know. I've been studying this stuff for 12+ years now. I've irritated a lot of people by knowing a lot...Even my X-boyfriend(he is smart and liked to, and was used to teaching others) used to try to tell me something that was "new" to him, and then he would end up laughing out of frustration when I would finish his sentance and add to his information base. It's not about ego or arrogance. I really do know about this kind of thing. It has been an obsession of mine for years. If you mentioned something I already didn't know about extensively I would have asked about it and thanked you for the information. Honest! (I'm addressing this because you seem irritated and keep mentioning that I don't ask you for info)

If you can discuss one day the things that you admit not to be familiar with. Get back at me. Otherwise...What's the point?
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
LOL...To your other post.

I'm a mother with children talking to someone with no children. I know you don't understand that. It is quite obvious to me though.

I love the way you dodge answering any questions your asked, while still proclaiming this supreme intellect of yours. If you want to LOL so bad you can start with this wise-old-sage schtick your on. Again the problem is, you profess a great many things, it's proving that you hav trouble with.

If you read ONE book of Dr. Ben you would know that he was born a Beta Isreal. It is in EVERY SINGLE ONE.

My words were I read up on egypt, and was FAMILIAR with Dr. Ben not I read his works. He was just okay to me.

You didn't even realize when you met him(I met him too) he was talking about the GODDESS!(aka the veneration of his wife...the devine feminine)...I love Dr. Ben man...He speaks in parables...but most don't get him...because they don't study...and we've been trained to think literally under this world shitstem...

Now THIS is actually interesting, assuming that it is the actual answer. I wonder what his take on Hislop's research, that all "divine mother" of various religions, are based on Nimrods wife semiramis. Now this is worth looking into.

If you don't know what the Papayrus of Ani is you must have only read stuff that briefly mentioned KMT and the Nile Valley/Great Lakes region. That's like someone claiming to have read about the Bible but not knowing what the Old Testament is...You would laugh at them.

Well I got it free on line. And I already see problems in it, but I'll wait till I'm done though it looks like you might have severely exaggerated on it's time of origin.

You might want to check out the Twa too. I mentioned them B4...

It seems that you like to passively learn...by internet and lectures. Hit the books. You'd get so much more out of the former if you do.

THIS is "laughable" comming from you. Being that the majority of your post are cut & paste. I gave you my book sources with page #'s (this was before I knew you already them *rolling eyes*), and since you couldin't debunk any of it I decide to give links that you could read for yourself...which you also couldn't debunk. But I forget in order for your arguments to hold water, you have to proclaim anyone and anything to the contrary as being ignorant, deceitful, and misinformed.

You keep asking for sources but haven't even read the material I've given you access to. I've given you all the bridges you need.

Really? Those links will refute the claims of the freemasons, that The ancient Egyptian deities were just Nimrod and other biblical figures? And Albert Pikes Statement, that for now, worship of any god is silly but okay, (as long as it is'nt ADONAI YAHWEH) because they all just other names for lucifer? The first link has might be okay,though what I've read so far has either been debunked of just makes conclusions, with no real proof. But I'll reserve opinions till I've finished the the whole link. As for the other two...a video catalog & amazon.com? yip-pee. Frankly I think I you could of refuted it you would've. You would have simply said "Immortal Logic you are wrong and here's why". Then you would have done more than just theorize while prclaiming this supreme intellect you claim to have.

If there was something you mentioned I hadn't already studied I would have asked about it.

And what were they again? Just humor me, and list them. Again you would have if you could...but you didn't.

I've irritated a lot of people by knowing a lot...

[i] Mmm...yes...of course


What's the point?
What's the point indeed...I can click on amazon.com on my own.
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
It seems that you like to passively learn...by internet and lectures. Hit the books. You'd get so much more out of the former if you do. I can't and won't do the work for you or anyone else. I had to do the work myself, so do you.


Now you see why I didn't allow this guy to corner me into participating in pointless "article-trading" with him. I know an intellectual lightweight when I encounter one. This person's perception of scholarly research is limited to opinonated "articles" which he believes are valuable resources. Books are useless to him. He prefers a "website." Therefore, "What's the point" is exactly what I was thinking all throughout this discussion. What's the point of comparatively describing each other's religion in exhausting detail when one person is determined to ignorantly think that his religion is "better" because he has an unlimited amount of "articles" and "websites" at his disposal??? It is very difficult to have a productive and scholarly discussion with someone who is blindly committed to truth-claiming rather than looking for meaning and understanding in all forms of spiritual awareness.
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quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
It seems that you like to passively learn...by internet and lectures. Hit the books. You'd get so much more out of the former if you do. I can't and won't do the work for you or anyone else. I had to do the work myself, so do you.


Now you see why I didn't allow this guy to corner me into participating in pointless "article-trading" with him. I know an intellectual lightweight and newbie when I encounter one. This person's perception of scholarly research is limited to opinonated "articles" which he believes are valuable sources. Books are useless to him. He prefers a "website." Therefore, "What's the point" is exactly what I was thinking all throughout this discussion. What's the point of comparatively describing each other's religion in exhausting detail when one person is determined to ignorantly think that his religion is "better" because he has an unlimited amount of "articles" and "websites" at his disposal??? It is very difficult to have a productive and scholarly discussion with someone who is blindly committed to truth-claiming rather than looking for meaning and understanding in all forms of spiritual awareness.


Ain't that the truth...
quote:
Originally posted by HeruStar:
Does anybody want to suffer for making the wrong decisions? What outcome do we expect the losing side to have? Or do we expect everyone to win?


Do you mean 'suffer' physically, spiritually, and/or mentally?
What do you mean by "loosing" side. What competition is being 'lost' or 'won' when it comes to spirituality? What are people expecting to 'win' or 'loose'?
Wow. Those questions made me smile. I won't give you the typical Bible thumping answers, but I will say this. No one is oblivious to the war that is going on. We struggle daily with our indivi-duality. Our inner struggle is a reflection of the struggle that is going on above and below us (let us make man in our image/reflection). Whenever we make a single decision, why is it absolutely impossible for make the right and wrong one? Why do we have to choose? I guess your question would be, "What is the right decision?". Well, if everybody knew that, then there wouldn't be a such thing as indivi-duals. There wouldn't be a such thind as decisions.
quote:
Originally posted by HeruStar:
Wow. Those questions made me smile. I won't give you the typical Bible thumping answers, but I will say this. No one is oblivious to the war that is going on. We struggle daily with our indivi-duality. Our inner struggle is a reflection of the struggle that is going on above and below us (let us make man in our image/reflection). Whenever we make a single decision, why is it absolutely impossible for make the right and wrong one? Why do we have to choose? I guess your question would be, "What is the right decision?". Well, if everybody knew that, then there wouldn't be a such thing as indivi-duals. There wouldn't be a such thind as decisions.


So, do you think one aspect(the masculine) should subdue or conquor the other(the feminine)?

Is it about a competition or balance?
quote:
Originally posted by HeruStar:
ok you drug the chauvinist out of me
Although I know different, I don't identify with the feminine aspects of the duality within. I don't think that's my role.

And I've never viewed war as merely a competition


Chauvinist indeed. Which the current form of X-tianity promotes IMO. You probably equate 'feminine' with 'weakness' instead of creativity, nurture/nature and regeneration ect. You are confusing the devine feminine and mascuine qualities of the universe and all life with 'gender roles'...or 'your' definition of them(which BTW the society you are raised in forms...and we all know 'we' are not dominating our society...at least in the West) But simultaneousely your own religion has the Shekhina and Sophia...I refer you to another thread on this very subject if you wish to further analyze the very dangerous supression of the devine feminine...

http://africanamerica.org/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/96970854/m/7151032822/p/1
I've read that thread. Just makes me feel like women have been oppressed so long that now they've become extremist. I have faith that yall will come around though.

Auset is the sphere of creativity. I agree with this tenfold. I don't think that there is anything weak about a woman. Fragile maybe. But not weak. Delicate. But not inferior.

Where women find there strength has always been a mystery. But that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Having said that. As "Man of the house" is Is my way or no way. I compromise sometimes.
quote:
Originally posted by HeruStar:
Having said that. As "Man of the house" is Is my way or no way. I compromise sometimes.

Eek sad
On what are your notions of what constitutes roles for men and women predicated? Again, I would encourage you to examine your assumptions closely and consider whether what you deem as natural, normative, and essential are really social constructions comparable, indeed, inextricably linked with concepts such as the inferiority of African people; e.g., that Africans are naturally/essentially more gifted musically and athletically than Europeans or Asians, but are deficient in terms of intellect and critical thinking skills when compared to these groups.
quote:
Originally posted by kresge:
On what are your notions of what constitutes roles for men and women predicated? Again, I would encourage you...


Its obvious this brotha is still caught up in "the Matrix" [uncritical, taken for granted, implied, and socialized thought] but asking questions and participating in discussions with informed people is just the first step toward his enlightenment and liberation. Each of us had to take that first step, at some point in time, and each us still has a lot to learn. Therefore I don't think we should make our new brotha feel ashamed or embarressed for asking questions about subjects he wishes to know about. So hey, lets lighten' up Kresge! Don't put him through your ringer just yet!!! Smile
The red pill or the blue pill
I took both
Just so I could sit next to god
And understand the joke
Far from enlightened
I chose a better route
Cause the Europeans that coined the term
Didn't know what enlightenment was about
I predicate my thesis
Of the feminine species
On the fact that they were created
To make our speech blend
That means were supposed to agree
And the only way to agree is if we agree
To agree with me
You can call me caught up
Blame it on how I was brought up
But let me tell you what I found
When I sought love
True liberation
Void of frustration
And argumentative spirits that hear nothing
But got plenty to say
quote:
Originally posted by HeruStar:
I've read that thread. Just makes me feel like women have been oppressed so long that now they've become extremist. I have faith that yall will come around though.


Lol...Balance equals extremism? that's a scary con-cept.

quote:
Auset is the sphere of creativity. I agree with this tenfold. I don't think that there is anything weak about a woman. Fragile maybe. But not weak. Delicate. But not inferior.


You are confusing gender "roles" (as dictated by your society) with devine energy...Literalists usually do this.

quote:
Where women find there strength has always been a mystery. But that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.


We go through childborth. I always wonder where men who don't deal with the devine feminine find their strength?

quote:
Having said that. As "Man of the house" is Is my way or no way. I compromise sometimes.


The man is the 'head' of the house the women is the 'neck'. We turn the head the direction we want it to go in....Think about it.
Women are the neck... that's deep.
I actually liked the sound of that until my mind said...
"Hold up, how many women do you know that you want to be turning your head"
I'm sure that in the context of a relationship that has a balanced women, that would be a desirable constitution.
However...
wait a minute, let me duck behind some cover
...
Women are unstable
quote:
Originally posted by HeruStar:
Women are the neck... that's deep.
I actually liked the sound of that until my mind said...
"Hold up, how many women do you know that you want to be turning your head"
I'm sure that in the context of a relationship that has a balanced women, that would be a desirable constitution.
However...
wait a minute, let me duck behind some cover
...
Women are unstable



Damn...You almost made it through a post without being a chauvanist.

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