quote:
Originally posted by msprettygirl:
quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:
Thanks detroit1 for doing what I knew our thread starter wouldn't do: find the info on female sex tourists. Wonder who will step up to decry their actions? 19


"Yeah right" ddouble says to himself...


I will! It's wrong whether you are a male, female or a hermaphrodite. nono


Yeah. *wags finger at women and hermaphrodites, too* ROFL.

Pay him no mind, I.

DD, is just crying again.

(Are you still having trouble understanding the comparison between talking with White and Black males, DD?

But, but Black people. . . What about when Black people. . . You aren't talking about Black people. . .

*tantrum*

If you are so eager to see links about female sex tourists, be a dear and find the Essence one I was searching for. 5)
Nice attempt, but your pithy response is nothing but evasion - and you call me a tap dancer. You are performing a flamenco right now.

I pay you less & less mind after each blatant episode of hypocrisy on your part. MPG has it right - if it's wrong, it's wrong, whether it's men or women, Black or White. The topic is sex tourism, so the gender or race of the buyer is irrelevant if exploitation is really what upsets you. But chiding the female sex tourist doesn't quite match up with your male sexism prism that you put every event through. I'm sure in your mind, the ladies bear no responsibility or deserve no scorn for the same behavior that brought vomit to your mouth when it was men buying sex from women.

If nothing else, at least own your bias...
quote:
Originally posted by AudioGuy:
Just curious... Is there a place on earth where a man/men go(es) to vacation, by himself, or "with his boys", and the emphasis is not about having sex?

I ask this seriously... I mean prostitutes are certainly not limited to Brasil...

"Sex is easy..." I have heard that about "spring break", about Vegas, about New Orleans, about L.A., about Europe, about Japan... I'm am pretty sure that a man could go just about anywhere and encounter the same thing...




Good question, because i really didnt think about the fact that men go on vacations.......and the emphasis is sex.

*Im glad you told me this*

I think my problem is that these men are paying for sex, knowing these women are poor.....trying to feed their children, etc.

........And yes although everyone is an adult, I personally think this has a lot to do with the reason why, a lot of brothas are afraid of committed relationships.

Yes sex is easy, but if thats all hes about...then so be it.
quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:
Thanks detroit1 for doing what I knew our thread starter wouldn't do: find the info on female sex tourists. Wonder who will step up to decry their actions? 19


"Yeah right" ddouble says to himself...


I also feel the same way......i have issues with women that do this.

But i must add, that i know several brothas that save their money all year, to hit Brazil...........but i dont know of any black women, doing this.

Do you?
Actually, I work with Black women that visit Jamaica 2 or 3 times a year. In fact, I chuckled when I saw "rent-a-dread" in the article posted by detroit1. I have heard sisters talking about "rent-a-dreads" in the past and didn't know what they were referencing. Now I know.
quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:
Actually, I work with Black women that visit Jamaica 2 or 3 times a year. In fact, I chuckled when I saw "rent-a-dread" in the article posted by detroit1. I have heard sisters talking about "rent-a-dreads" in the past and didn't know what they were referencing. Now I know.



SMH........i guess there are women that will pay for someone to give them attention/sex.

I just dont understand it.....

I can pick up a man here (hundreds), and he'll tell me a bunch of crap, and have sex with me.........for FREE. I would not have to pay, one red cent.

Big Grin
quote:
Originally posted by qty226:
SMH........i guess there are women that will pay for someone to give them attention/sex.

I just dont understand it.....

I can pick up a man here (hundreds), and he'll tell me a bunch of crap, and have sex with me.........for FREE. I would not have to pay, one red cent.

Big Grin

That's the thing. Normal, desirable women don't have to travel to find sex. Notice how pretty much all of the women that were featured in that article were "less than desirable." As for eligible, younger black women doing such, my guess is that they do it out of curiousity.
quote:
Originally posted by ma'am:
quote:
Originally posted by xxGAMBITxx:
Question: Are you holding the men responsible for what goes on down there or for "promoting" it? *not being mean just want to see a womans POV..please dont hit me with chair today..I'm sick. sad)


My POV.

I wasn't aware of this trend. If it really is one.

But I have noticed men going on about Brazilian women before. And when picking out the faves from the country with the most Black people in this hemisphere, the women pointed out tend not to be so Black.

With enough color as to not be White, but White enough to be a touchdown.

So with that background, I began to read the article with an eye biased towards disappointment already.

Not only are self-hating Black men lusting Brazil for these trophies, but paying women for fake affection?

And I waited for the men to find a way to blame this on American women.

Prepared to puke.

But the article didn't go there.

Actually, I kinda got bored with it because it made these guys sound not too unlike the stereotypical American sex tourist. Except for being Black.

While just as disguisting, it's not that much more horrible.

I'm interested in reading his article on Black American women going on sex vacations.

Comparing and contrasting it with Black male sex tourists and White female sex tourists.

I haven't seen the article he mentioned, though.


if you read the article in the magazine, it includes an inset story about black women and their sex vacations to Jamaica. One of the ladies in the story spoke about how she and her male 'mistress' has sex and he seemed to know how to hit the right spots. She was married and vacationed with a group of girlfriends for sex.

Questions for you?

Do these FACTS change your opinion about PERSONS who vacation for the purpose of sex, or is this only when you can label black men as horrible for doing this?? What about Stella and the vacation migration that book caused??
http://breadandwine.blogspot.com/2006/09/essence-magazine-bashes-african.html

laugh

Sunday, September 24, 2006
Essence magazine bashes African-American males in Brazil feature
This month's Women Against Sex award goes to Essence Magazine, which reveals some shocking news about the latest epidemic sweeping the black community. No, it isn't crack, out-of-wedlock births, or HIV. Instead, the brothers are all flocking in hordes to Brazil on secret sex vacations. Oh my God! It must be true, because William Jelani Cobb, a professor of history at the African-American university Spelman College, says it's true. They're going down there in droves, escaping the pressures of a real-life relationship to bang Third World hookers on the cheap. Many of them have even -- perish the thought! -- walked away from stateside relationships altogether. Why is this bad? Because it replicates the master-slave relationship which we thought we'd dispensed with here in the States. But, now that black men have a little bit of money, they're flocking to Brazil and exploiting Third World women, just as blacks in the States were exploited during slavery.

Even NPR -- not exactly a bastion of objective reporting -- wants to get in a story about this "disturbing new trend". Ed Gordon shows just how uninformed he is by trying to warn listeners about HIV, but even Cobb has to admit that the Brazilian government has dramatically curbed the rate of new infections through an aggressive public health program. That leaves Cobb with only one real issue left: the "moral irony" of black men paying for sex in Brazil. Exactly how black men paying for sex is more morally ironic in Brazil that it is when they do it in the States is something neither of them bothers to explain. I also don't understand how it's more morally ironic when black men do it than when white men do it. In any case, I'm left with the distinct impression that William Cobb really needs to get laid.

As a white guy I could be missing something, but my trip to Brazil earlier this year was with a tour whose makeup was composed mostly of black men. The number of pure sex tourists on that trip was exactly zero. There were guys who enjoyed casual sex, for sure -- but no one that I met made the trip for paid sex. One possible reason is that -- believe it or not, Mr. Cobb -- for the pure sex tourist, there are cheaper options available elsewhere. Cobb also likes to talk about how Brazilian women -- particularly prostitutes -- like to compliment the men, most of the compliments being focused on their black-ness. But white American men get complimented by Brazilian women too, over other features that they have, and all men get complimented often -- sometimes by women who are not selling a blessed thing.

So where is the story? What is Mr. Cobb's problem with black American males experiencing Brazilian culture, music, beaches, and yes, women?

I think it's just possible that black American men love Brazilian women for the same reason all American men do, and it doesn't have anything to do with feminism or with race. Brazilian women in particular, and Latin women in general, seem to genuinely enjoy spending time with men. Even those who prefer to kick it with other Brazilians (and they do exist, too) seem to genuinely value time spent with the opposite sex. American women black and white, given the choice, would probably just as soon spend an evening out with the girls than negotiate the gender / communication gap with some sloppy guy who likes beer and football. American men are getting wise to the fact that women in other parts of the world don't always feel the same way. And that scares the ever-loving crap out of American women. So they enlist academics like Cobb to sound the alarm and generate magazine-selling headlines, and a white-dominated media establishment that's only too eager to heap more scorn on black men. Shame on them.

There are many comments on the Essence magazine website which highlight the controversy. Of particular interest are the references to child support. Women seem to take it for granted that men ought to just pony up child support and figure out something more moral and upright to do with all that free time that comes from not being able to see their kids.

Adding insult to injury is a sidebar in the print version of the article, about an African-American woman who hooks up for casual sex while on vacation in Jamaica. The implication seems to be that when a woman does it she's getting her groove back, but when a man does it, it means he's an escapist horndog dodging his responsibilities. What absolute arrogance and hypocrisy.


There is a lot more at stake in this debate than just American men's ability to get laid whenever they want. One little-known provision of the recently-renewed Violence Against Women Act (VAWA) is the International Marriage Broker Regulation Act, which essentially brands all American men abusers and batters unless they can prove otherwise. The feminist lobby wants to make it as inconvenient as possible for American men to marry outside the country, by mandating that police records and other court documents be made available to any woman with whom a man is corresponding through a marriage broker. This is not some theoretical threat, guys -- it's current U.S. law.
The blog is acting as if Cobb came up with this.

Psychologists and sociologists have been covering this issue for a while and I hear that was part inspiration for the article.

And since the article has been printed, I've seen it has generated a lot of convo. But I'm not hearing that Cobb made up this trend or even exaggerated it.

I hear more along the lines of been there, done that stories and pithy statements about what peoples buddies have said about the sexual environment down there.

Similar to what has been said by guys in the beginning of this thread.

Epidemic? I don't think anyone has said that.

Although, I have heard it described as an increasing trend among the middle class.

What got under the skin of the author?

I wonder if the author believes that these men deserve critical leeway because they are Black?

White men are attacked for this issue too. But because these men are Black, should critics scream yay for Americans commodifying and spreading their venereal diseases to Third World people? Yay for promoting an institution that often involves minors and trafficked slaves?

The criticisms of the Black men aren't all that different from those of White men (even if they weren't said to both groups, it wouldn't make the arguments less valid). But I notice, especially on blogrings where I first saw the article, there are men who are going nuts as if using the arguments against White sex tourists is wrong to use against them.

Funny stuff.

And how reaching is it for the guy to get on Gordon for tackling the HIV/AIDS issue? HIV is still a problem in Brazil. They have one of the largest groups of affected people in their region. The government is doing great in treating victims, but that is not to say that they they have developed a cure. The disease is still spreadable. And sex workers are especially in trouble. The deal with HIV and all the other VDs foriegners help spread.

quote:
Originally posted by RadioRaheem:
if you read the article in the magazine, it includes an inset story about black women and their sex vacations to Jamaica. One of the ladies in the story spoke about how she and her male 'mistress' has sex and he seemed to know how to hit the right spots. She was married and vacationed with a group of girlfriends for sex.

Questions for you?

Do these FACTS change your opinion about PERSONS who vacation for the purpose of sex, or is this only when you can label black men as horrible for doing this?? What about Stella and the vacation migration that book caused??


It's interesting that guys keep trying to bring women up in a thread about an article concerning male sex tourists. But, whateva.

I'm interested in the female trend, too, which is why I was looking for the sister article back in the day in order to start another thread about that.

The full article is still not available online, and I still haven't gotten to see the hardcopy of the article. Did it mention any trends in mentality? Did it compare this to other group's sex tourism?

Anyone who read it, did you recognize the trend as they painted it?

Was it identical to the male situation?

I might be surprised, but I doubt it.

I was looking up studies on the Black female aspect the other day, but there weren't as many numbers or psychological analysis on them (instead there was plenty on White American men and women and a bit on Black American men).

This is probably because Black women don't participate in the foreign sex trade as much.

The Essence piece on them was probably included just to appease the men whose panties would bunch up if they didn't, lol. Women do it tooooooo!

But when it comes to the sex trade, women are way more often the commodity bought than the buyers.

That is probably the reason why there is less study material out on the Black female sex tourists. And the two very well might have different motivations (as men and women often differ in how they view sex).

So I don't understand why the need to bring up women in a thread about men when the amount and drive between the groups is probably different.

And if the point of bringing them up is just to say Black women do it too, that is just. . .pathetic.

Have something more to say, please.

In order to not bunch up any more panties, let me reiterate that this isn't a support of female, hermaphrodite, or polka-dotted philanderers.

BTW, why should my opinion on sex tourists be changed?
http://www.jelanicobb.com/portfolio/rioresponse.html

Response to "Blame It On Rio"

Many of you are visiting my website in response to my article on African American men and sex tourism in Brazil in the September issue of Essence Magazine. This piece has generated quite a bit of hostile response. While I don't set out to anger people, my job as a writer is to tell people the truth as I understand it - not necessarily what they want to hear. And while I appreciate (most of) the email I've received, the volume of it has made responding to each one impossible. Therefore I am posting this response to the most common threads in the correspondence.

1. Why did you write this article?

The short answer is because I'm a writer and this is a story. The longer answer is because it is an issue that really needed to be discussed and one of my goals as a writer is to start important conversations. There's an old saying that the only problem that some blacks had with slavery was the fact that we were the slaves. It was profound to me that the hard-fought gains of the past half century have empowered a certain set of black men to travel to South America and behave in ways once associated with white men alone. To me the issue raised a question of what we were and are struggling for. Was it solely to get a foot in the door so that we could replicate the worst behaviors of American society ourselves? Are we so wrapped up in our own issues with America that we are incapable of seeing the severe problems that confront other people of color in other parts of world?

2. Your article has made the problems between black men and women worse.

James Baldwin said that not everything that can be faced can be solved, but nothing can be solved until it is faced. I found this particular critique fascinating -- as if a problem would not exist if we didn't speak about it. I am of the belief that truth is an antiseptic. It stings; it burns, but in the end it makes us better. It was in that hope that I wrote the article.

The brothers I interviewed in Rio expressed a profound disillusionment toward sisters in the states and a deep resentment of the treatment they receive from black American women. If this is in fact the case, doesn't it mean we need to be talking about this issue? If a brother has to spend $700, fly 1,800 miles and learn basic Portuguese in order to feel appreciated, I think it warrants a community discussion.

3. Where can I go in Brazil to experience the things you wrote about in the article?

Yes, I actually did get this question. My heartfelt honest response: Get real. You have to be kidding me. Please tell me you are not so desperate that you're sending email to a writer whom you've never met asking him where you can go to get some.

4. What can black women in America do to keep their men from going to Brazil/How can we compete with these women in South America?

Yes, I got that question too. And the short answer is nothing. As I stated in the article, this is not entirely about sex. I'm not even convinced it's mainly about sex. This is about affirmation and deference that men get and choose not to examine for what it is: good customer relations, no more, no less. I'm not a relationship expert, but I don't think it's realistic for people in actual relationships to attempt to compete with something that is essentially a made-to-order fantasy. Moreover, do you really want to be with someone who requires you to compete with prostitutes for their attention?

5. You let black men off the hook in terms of challenging the ways that they negatively describe black women


This was interesting also. Lots of women (my mother included) felt that I should have explicitly condemned the men who were speaking ill of the sisters back home. Let me go on the record and say that I was generally disturbed by what I saw and heard in Rio. There were dozens of black men explaining that they travel to the city and seek out women there because they are so poorly treated by black women in America.

I had a hard time hearing this because one of my primary concerns in life is the well-being of the black community, however it is that we define that term. I also found it difficult to believe that all these men were having a hard time meeting black women at home and suspected that it was a self-serving justification for their behavior. At the same time I had to balance the fact that I was writing a feature, not an editorial or a column, which is why I take a definite stand but attempted to express it somewhat subtly within the piece. At the very end, I talk explicitly about the ways in which brothers from the states in Rio are being complicit in a system that feeds on the exploitation of women in the third world.

6. You came down too hard on black men considering all they have to deal with in this society.

See answer #1. Also, I find it impossible to believe that after two centuries of struggle our only recourse is to fly ten hours to a foreign country and pay a woman for sex. I know as well as anyone else what we confront in this society. I also know that black people in Brazil are struggling against even greater obstacles than we are here. Our own condition in America does not justify turning a blind eye to that reality.

7. You sold out by letting women in on what was going on/You must be gay.

Um... okay. But is that really where you want to draw your line in terms of allegiance? The last two articles I wrote for Essence dealt with the disproportionate incarceration of black youth for offenses that white youth are frequently given probation for and the murder of two young brothers I knew (age 22 and 25.) I heard almost nothing in response to those pieces. I am willing to bet that you did not send any outraged emails to your local representatives, state senators, congressional representative or the White House regarding this catastrophic situation. Yet a piece that talks about the biggest open secret in black America has you up in arms. It's been said that in writing my piece I violated the alleged brother's code. Yet we black men are 19 times more likely than white men to die as a victim of homicide and 95% of the perpetrators look just like we do. It seems to me that if there is any code violation to worry about, it should be that one.

As for the illogical assumption that the article somehow indicates that the writer is gay -- are you equating heterosexuality with having to pay for it? That may be the case for you (and if so, you have my condolences) but I don't have that particular problem.

8. You make it seem as if all Brazilian women are prostitutes and only black American men are guilty of sex tourism there.

The article was about sex tourism in Brazil -- not Brazil at large. There are tons of things to discuss about that beautiful and historic country; unfortunately culture and history are not the reasons that so many black men have started going to Rio in the past 3-5 years. If I wrote an article about carjackers in Atlanta one would not assume that it meant that all Atlantans are carjackers. The women i wrote about in the article were part of the sex trade; but nowhere do I argue or imply that they are the majority of the women in the city. Also, I made reference early in the article to the fact that black men are far from the only men involved in this activity. The angle of the article is that there has been an explosion in terms of the numbers of black men and that change is worthy of investigation.

If you still have questions or comments, feel free to email me. I can't however guarantee that I'll get the time to reply, but I'll give it my best shot.



quote:
Originally posted by RadioRaheem:
http://www.jelanicobb.com/portfolio/rioresponse.html

Response to "Blame It On Rio"


1. Why did you write this article?

The short answer is because I'm a writer and this is a story.

2. Your article has made the problems between black men and women worse.

James Baldwin said that not everything that can be faced can be solved, but nothing can be solved until it is faced. I found this particular critique fascinating -- as if a problem would not exist if we didn't speak about it. I am of the belief that truth is an antiseptic. It stings; it burns, but in the end it makes us better. It was in that hope that I wrote the article.

The brothers I interviewed in Rio expressed a profound disillusionment toward sisters in the states and a deep resentment of the treatment they receive from black American women. If this is in fact the case, doesn't it mean we need to be talking about this issue? If a brother has to spend $700, fly 1,800 miles and learn basic Portuguese in order to feel appreciated, I think it warrants a community discussion.




These were the most honest things he said. He served up more "I'm just fine. The brothers are the problem" tripe. Even in number two, he was too afraid to state outright that the problem isn't just about brothers. He meanders and couches any criticism of sisters with "ifs" but has no problem blasting brothers directly in 4 & 5. Guess that's what you have to do if you want to keep getting published in Essence. td6
quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:
quote:
Originally posted by RadioRaheem:
http://www.jelanicobb.com/portfolio/rioresponse.html

Response to "Blame It On Rio"


1. Why did you write this article?

The short answer is because I'm a writer and this is a story.

2. Your article has made the problems between black men and women worse.

James Baldwin said that not everything that can be faced can be solved, but nothing can be solved until it is faced. I found this particular critique fascinating -- as if a problem would not exist if we didn't speak about it. I am of the belief that truth is an antiseptic. It stings; it burns, but in the end it makes us better. It was in that hope that I wrote the article.

The brothers I interviewed in Rio expressed a profound disillusionment toward sisters in the states and a deep resentment of the treatment they receive from black American women. If this is in fact the case, doesn't it mean we need to be talking about this issue? If a brother has to spend $700, fly 1,800 miles and learn basic Portuguese in order to feel appreciated, I think it warrants a community discussion.




These were the most honest things he said. He served up more "I'm just fine. The brothers are the problem" tripe. Even in number two, he was too afraid to state outright that the problem isn't just about brothers. He meanders and couches any criticism of sisters with "ifs" but has no problem blasting brothers directly in 4 & 5. Guess that's what you have to do if you want to keep getting published in Essence. td6


thanks
quote:
Originally posted by Afro Saxon:
I wouldn't go because I do not need to pay for sex and I find Brazilian women to be far to mixed to be interesting.


Brazil has far more to offer than RIO and sex, and don't get it twisted most Brazilian women are BLACK AFRICANS... There is a higher rate of mixture in Brazil(Rio in particular), just like other Latin-Catholic countries vs. Anglo-protestant ones, but it is negligable overall. Don't believe the colourist fantasy that hip-hop videos portay.

Persoanally, I have it on my agenda to go to Bahia for spiritual/cultural/political reasons, Candomble is a sister religion to Ifa, and Salvador Bahia is the most African part of Brazil. There also is an active Pan African chapter there.

That being said, the sex trade is disgusting no matter who is purchasing or selling, it's all about exploitation. It's sad that in a country as historic and African/Black culturally oriented as Brazil that brothers are going for sex. It's sad that in countries like the Caribbean as African/Black oriented as they are, sisters are going for sex.(I heard of rent-a-dread, but not rastitute! 20) There are so many other and better reasons to travel!

Someone mentioned colourism before, that does have something to do with the brothers going to RIO, because if they wanted cheap sex, then the Caribbean is much closer/cheaper, and there are plenty of female prostitutes there too...guess they are too dark on average. Not that I want brothers to be travelling anywhere for sex, but I couldn't help but make the observation.

This is the Brazil I want to see...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=UwU0VwwYBx0&mode=related&search=
quote:
Originally posted by qty226:
quote:
Originally posted by msprettygirl:
So qty let me understand-are you opposed to dating any man that vacations in brazil, just based on him going there or are you opposed to dating men that go to Brazil with the specific intent of engaging in sexual tourism?



I 'personally' have yet to meet a man, that goes to Brazil, without focusing on women/sex.

Just take a look at the responses on this thread, and you'll see each and every man.......spoke about sex/booty, etc.

My point is this, because of the responses and what i hear, from my friends, .......if a man is into traveling there, i have to assume that he is engaging in sexual tourism.


Could be he's going to Brasil for a math conference or something. There are lots of reasons for somebody to travel to Brasil.
I forgot something I wanted to comment on...

AFRICA is the booty capital of the earth. Where do you think the Brazilians get it from? The only reason brothers would rate Brazil(Rio) over Africa is if they think booty/body is better on a European phenotype(light skin, straighter hair, and European/non-Bantu/African facial features)... nono

racist
True: Brasilians don't get that booty from the indian and euro genes, its afro baby.
False: The majority of brasilians are what would be considered black african. I've seen estimates that anywhere from 2/3 to 3/4 of the population have african admixture, but the whole of Brasil does not resemble Bahia.

Add Reply

Likes (0)
Post
×
×
×
×