No comment save, the African American is what....the poster child for all that is minimal in the U.S? nono Confused bang
------------------------------------------------------


Mexican leader criticized for comment on blacks

'That level of dialogue doesn't merit comment'


Saturday, May 14, 2005 Posted: 8:16 PM EDT (0016 GMT)
CNN) -- A top U.S. civil rights figure on Saturday criticized Mexican President Vicente Fox's comment that Mexican immigrants to the United States take jobs "that not even blacks want to do."
The Rev. Jesse Jackson called the remark "a spurious comparison" with "ominous racial overtones."
A Mexican official defended Fox later in the day, saying his description was not meant as an insult.
"The president didn't make a declaration in the racist sense; of course there are those who interpret it in that way," Foreign Relations Secretary Luis Derbez told a reporter in the Mexican state of Jalisco.
According to Derbez, Fox was making the point that "Mexican migrants are making great contributions in the United States and that their role is a positive role."
"They've been able to improve the conditions of life not just for themselves but also for the communities in which they settle and, by the same token, the president made the comment in this context to say that a large quantity of the jobs taken by Mexicans are jobs that in the U.S. society aren't being filled."
"I think that what we have to be very clear about is that the statement made by the president was in no way motivated by racism."
'Most poor Americans are ... white'
But Jackson told CNN in a telephone interview that Fox "should not confuse the need for sound legal immigration policy between the two countries, which is important, and the border disputes between the two countries, with a spurious comparison."
"The comparison is diversionary from the issue of a workable immigration policy between the U.S. and Mexico."
Jackson, who said he has never met Fox, planned to call the Mexican president.
Fox made the controversial
Original Post
quote:
Mexican immigrants to the United States take jobs "that not even blacks want to do."


[sarcasm]Well, praise God for the Mexican immigrants! They will do the jobs that not even the bottom-feeding, scum-sucking Blacks will do.[/sarcasm]td6

quote:
"The president didn't make a declaration in the racist sense; of course there are those who interpret it in that way,"


WTF? "Of course" there are those who will interpret it that way.... because that's exactly how his azz meant it. "Not in the racist sense??" Is there another sense one can use to make disparaging comments about Blacks? Can he at least try to come up with a good excuse? I've found that anytime people start talking about "the Blacks" something racist will come spewing out of their mouth. He could've saved himself the drama by simply excluding the words "not even."
quote:
Originally posted by Frenchy:
quote:
Mexican immigrants to the United States take jobs "that not even blacks want to do."


[sarcasm]Well, praise God for the Mexican immigrants! They will do the jobs that not even the bottom-feeding, scum-sucking Blacks will do.[/sarcasm]td6

quote:
"The president didn't make a declaration in the racist sense; of course there are those who interpret it in that way,"


WTF? "Of course" there are those who will interpret it that way.... because that's exactly how his azz meant it. "Not in the racist sense??" Is there another sense one can use to make disparaging comments about Blacks? Can he at least try to come up with a good excuse? I've found that anytime people start talking about "the Blacks" something racist will come spewing out of their mouth. He could've saved himself the drama by simply excluding the words "not even."




[sarcasm]Well, praise God for the Mexican immigrants! They will do the jobs that not even the bottom-feeding, scum-sucking Blacks will do.[/sarcasm]


quote:
"The president didn't make a declaration in the racist sense; of course there are those who interpret it in that way,"


WTF? "Of course" there are those who will interpret it that way.... because that's exactly how his azz meant it. "Not in the racist sense??" Is there another sense one can use to make disparaging comments about Blacks?

Exactly. Being Black/African American is a 24/7-365 hr/day job. Geesh! Enemies to the left(white liberals), enemies to the right(all the other whites), enemies to the south, (tex-mex); who'se left/next to make disparaging comments about the Black American, Canadians, to prop up their ethnic/racist ego/agenda? damn.
[sarcasm]Well, praise God for the Mexican immigrants! They will do the jobs that not even the bottom-feeding, scum-sucking Blacks will do.[/sarcasm]

Also, because there is no such thing as an accident/mistake (althought that Freudian theorem is left to another discussion); this may actually be 'code' from Vicente Fox, to the American power elite, and to White/other non-black Americans, in particular. Vicente Fox, is no idiot, I would have to say that he knew exactly what he was saying, why he said it, and for what intent.
....not to mention other issues such as:

A. U.S. citizens, meaning the taxpayers foot the bill for public school education for the offspring of untold numbers of illegal immigrants.

B. The toll on health care, as it relates to providing medical care to numerous illegal immigrants.


C. By and large the premier drug lords, police officers, members of the U.S. armed forces, many of these individuals being Hispanic or Hispanic Gang affiliation who peddle illicit drugs, through low level dope houses controlled by Black gangs, which has devastated the Black community. Here again though, a business is only as good as its customer base.

Lack of competent representation from our own elected Black leadership, and/or other individuals in positions of influence in our own community, have helped to create high unemployment, foster criminal activity, keep Black people frustrated, promoted by the greed to make money at the expense of the Black community, and other issues, each of these issues, be it single or any combination thereof, has caused the Black community to prey on itself.

D. Black on Black crime,...Black on Black crime, Black on Black crime....,....and more Black on Black crime,...be it rape, robbery, car-jacking, murder, attempted murder, theft, or white collar criminal activity in illegally breaking up Black families for profit, stealing from the Black community while holding elected office as it pertains to many of our own elected Black representatives.

E. The willingness to betray your own posterity, as it relates to Black social workers, Black lawyers, Black elected officials, Black probation officers, Black foster care providers, and/or no good stealing from Black people poverty pimping preachers, etc., who promote the break-up of the traditional Black family for profit.

F. Bending over backwards to praise the misfit set that surely exists in the Black community, while condemning Black people truly worthy of praise!

A through F, has made it easier for Hispanics to make advancement both in their own immediate community, and in taking control of communities formerly predominated by Black people, such as Compton, Watts, South Central Los Angeles, Inglewood, and other communities to which the Black middle class have virtually handed over to outsiders,... be it through being inept, treason, selfishness, greed, being criminal themselves, and/or any other weakness.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

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quote:
Originally posted by nayo:
Exactly. Being Black/African American is a 24/7-365 hr/day job. Geesh! Enemies to the left(white liberals), enemies to the right(all the other whites), enemies to the south, (tex-mex); who'se left/next to make disparaging comments about the Black American, Canadians, to prop up their ethnic/racist ego/agenda? damn.


*Please do not forget the black conservative...and those who hate themselves.....by tearing down black people any way they can...from shooting up the neighborhood..to spewing hatred and not really give a f-k enough to give any time, effort or money to improve a black cause........
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin41:
quote:
Originally posted by nayo:
Exactly. Being Black/African American is a 24/7-365 hr/day job. Geesh! Enemies to the left(white liberals), enemies to the right(all the other whites), enemies to the south, (tex-mex); who'se left/next to make disparaging comments about the Black American, Canadians, to prop up their ethnic/racist ego/agenda? damn.


"Please do not forget the black conservative...and those who hate themselves.....by tearing down black people any way they can...from shooting up the neighborhood..to spewing hatred and not really give a f-k enough to give any time, effort or money to improve a black cause........" by Kevin41


...Heck, the liberal community, the Democratic Party through an inept Black elected leadership has kept the Black community in chaos and poverty for years.

"Please do not forget the black conservative...and those who hate themselves.....by tearing down black people any way they can...from shooting up the neighborhood..to spewing hatred and not really give a f-k enough to give any time, effort or money to improve a black cause........" by Kevin41

....and the responses of the Pompous Professors of Pomposity, such as the above quotation, playing the race card, or blaming Black conservatives for the plight of the Black commmunity, won't provide an ounce of Purina Dog Chow for a starving canine, let alone bring economic resources, or provide the abode and necessities of life for the many destitute Black people, a population that is growing by the day, because of the attitude of a Kevin41, the liberal Black community, the poverty pimping selfish jack-leg preachers, and sleazing stealing never intended to competently serve the Black community no good illegal immigrant serving foreign interests at the expense of the Black community Merv Dymally, "Brentwood Burke", "Kerosene Waters", etc., etc.


The conservatives hold the assets. Those who hold the assets control their own destiny. It is about time the Black community took on more characteristics of conservatives, the business owners, etc., so that Black people can have more say so, over controlling their own destiny.

So far, the only legacy left from liberal Democrats is begging for AFDC benefits, begging for Welfare benefits, begging for affirmative action programs, building more penal institutions that keep every other ethnic group gainfully employed but Black people, mental health clinics, abortion clinics, Butcher/Killer King Hospital, breaking up law abiding Black families for profit,....the "West Angeles Cathedrals" financed through tidings by the sweat and sacrifice of many Black people but whose building construction and maintenance keep every other ethnic group gainfully employed but Black men and women.

Maintaining the "status quo", of raising the bar to financial freedom and ownership for every other community but the Black community, is contributing to the extinction of the Black community!

....Can't fault a minute few Black Conservatives, the Republican Party, President George Bush, U.S. Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice, Ward Connerly, Larry Elders, Jessie Peterson, Michael Lofton, etc.,

........when the Democratic Party through an inept Black elected leadership, a consortium of no good jack-leg Black preachers, fake civil rights advocates, no good poverty pimping Danny Bakewell, Reverend Sleazy Jesse Jackson, and the Black middle class who promote these individuals, for damage caused and promoted by these individuals, for well over forty years, from the sixties, seventies, eighties, nineties, and into the twenty first century!


Sincerely,

Michael Lofton
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quote:
" drama by simply excluding the words "not even."


And this is where the racist element gains its power. Why not simply, not even America's poor, or, America's working class, or America's underprivileged (which could have been ultimately interpreted as 'black); but, the blatant, and brazen (and perhaps racistly 'honest) use of 'black', makes this more than racist; because Fox is brazenly pandering to America's obsession with 'hating' and possessing despicabale beliefs/feelings about the Black American. Fox, just played the race card, as it is dealt in the socio-political fabric, that is America.
quote:
Mexican President Vicente Fox


I have never liked this dude. Everything his administration has done is wack. Mexico published a manual this year with instructions how to cross the border. It was on the Lou Dobbs CNN news show.

I read there is a movement by Latinos to have as many kids as possible and to populate several Southwestern states, and take them back from America. Forgot what it is called.
quote:
Originally posted by DivineJoy:
quote:
Mexican President Vicente Fox


I have never liked this dude. Everything his administration has done is wack. Mexico published a manual this year with instructions how to cross the border. It was on the Lou Dobbs CNN news show.

I read there is a movement by Latinos to have as many kids as possible and to populate several Southwestern states, and take them back from America. Forgot what it is called.


MECHA Objectives

and as the Hispanic population in the Black community increases, Hispanics will vote their own into positions of influence, to which it is a given that none of these individuals will make it a high priorty to look out for the best interest of Black people!

These individuals and/or organizations make it very clear as to who they intend to serve, namely serving the Hispanic community first and foremost!
quote:
Originally posted by nayo:
quote:
" drama by simply excluding the words "not even."


And this is where the racist element gains its power. Why not simply, not even America's poor, or, America's working class, or America's underprivileged (which could have been ultimately interpreted as 'black); but, the blatant, and brazen (and perhaps racistly 'honest) use of 'black', makes this more than racist; because Fox is brazenly pandering to America's obsession with 'hating' and possessing despicabale beliefs/feelings about the Black American. Fox, just played the race card, as it is dealt in the socio-political fabric, that is America.



*Business as usual in terms of the perception of blacks others try to gain their sense of self-adequacy with. As long at immigrants (Illegal and Legal) can help the white power structure (W, Big Business and Special Interests) make money, it will be allowed. People do not come to a country where there is not work...hell, half of the politicians had illegals as nannies and gardeners and all types of jobs.....what would make us think their business cronies do not have the same thing in mind? It is to their best interest to allow illegals in while feeding the masses racist bullschit like they really care. I think we need to worry more about our overall competitiveness and skill levels more than anything. We are in times where whites are being wrung out to dry in large numbers....the three-generation lifelong factory job days are over....in all industries that previously maintained a marginally educated white middle class...so i think we need to worry more about our own plan and not have to compete against people just getting here....when we have been here probably 8-9 generations....just a thought....but I expect efforts like this on the part of any other marginalized group in society trying to gain what they have had, we are getting and they do not have.....it is only human....for people to compete for limited resources....of any kind......
....but I expect efforts like this on the part of any other marginalized group in society trying to gain what they(whites) have had, we are getting and they do not have.....it is only human....for people to compete for limited resources....of any kind......
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin41:
....but I expect efforts like this on the part of any other marginalized group in society trying to gain what they(whites) have had, we are getting and they do not have.....it is only human....for people to compete for limited resources....of any kind......


Good points. However, I have no spite for folk trying to make it anywhere; but, Mexican nationals have a home, a home that is not a 'Third World nation, but is struggling; and while the 'illegal immigrant
'crisis' does'nt spike ire, I'm at odds with the comment(s) made by the leader of the nation from which these folk hail. What do I, a Black American, have to do with Vicente Fox in any capacity? Nothing. Mexicans of African descent are treated less than by their brethren who are 'blanco' or'weda'(?),and they are viewed as less than. So, Fox, transfers this prejudice, with 'home-grown' bias towards African Americans, to what end?
quote:
Originally posted by nayo:
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin41:
....but I expect efforts like this on the part of any other marginalized group in society trying to gain what they(whites) have had, we are getting and they do not have.....it is only human....for people to compete for limited resources....of any kind......


Good points. However, I have no spite for folk trying to make it anywhere; but, Mexican nationals have a home, a home that is not a 'Third World nation, but is struggling; and while the 'illegal immigrant
'crisis' does'nt spike ire, I'm at odds with the comment(s) made by the leader of the nation from which these folk hail. What do I, a Black American, have to do with Vicente Fox in any capacity? Nothing. Mexicans of African descent are treated less than by their brethren who are 'blanco' or'weda'(?),and they are viewed as less than. So, Fox, transfers this prejudice, with 'home-grown' bias towards African Americans, to what end?


I hear ya Nayo,

I was just referring to the numbers that have moved over here for that purpose of making it...separate from the Fox thing. Fox has lost his damn mind speaking about black people as a low azz measurement of a human being or something. His statement came across as if he was saying, even black(as f-ked up and desperate as they are) people do not want to do the jobs so you KNOW they must be bad.......because their azzes (black folks) will accept anything......
My problem with his statement is that it is an outright LIE. One of the biggest myths in America right now is that mexican men and women are doing work that no one else wants to do. I see these Mexican cats doing construction work, moving jobs, janitorial services and plenty of other jobs that pay very well, most of them pay no less that fifteen bucks an hour, which is more than some Black folk make at their current places of employment.

The biggest Black janitorial Union in the nation was disbandon and destroyed because Companies start hiring Mexicans to do it cheaper. Mexicans are not doing work no one else wants to do, they are doing the work cheaper than most would do it in many cases and outside employment laws and guidelines in others.

I think Fox statements were an ignorant way of aknowledging Black men and women in America being in dire need of employment with and unemployment rate double that of white folk but yet in his eyes we still refuse to do the work Mexican men and women are willing to do which is a lie.
The effort to undercut the American worker is being done.....and any middle class fool that supported W should have their job taken from THEM......because poor racist whites and self-hating negroes do not understand that bush & co are for rich white businessmen only....and anyone else who benefits from their policy coincidentally did so.....


Joint Bill Would Revamp Immigrant Worker Rules
By Johanna Neuman
Times Staff Writer

May 13, 2005

WASHINGTON "” Describing America's immigration system as broken, a bipartisan group of lawmakers introduced legislation Thursday to set up a temporary worker program that could lead to permanent resident status and would allow undocumented foreigners already here to work legally after paying sizable fines and undergoing background checks.

"This is a comprehensive bill that doesn't try to solve the hemorrhaging immigration problem with a Band-Aid "” this bill is major surgery," said Rep. Jim Kolbe (R-Ariz.), one of the measure's sponsors in the House. "We must recognize reality and implement a tightly structured guest worker program to securely, and legally, fill jobs that no American is available [for] or wants to do."

President Bush has pledged to overhaul immigration laws as part of his second-term agenda, and Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) said Thursday that the new legislation, known as the Secure America and Orderly Immigration Act of 2005, reflected the principles that Bush had outlined "” protecting domestic security, serving the U.S. economy, providing a willing worker for a willing employer where no American wants the job, and opposing amnesty.

"I'm confident we can work with the White House," said McCain, who wrote the Senate bill with Sen. Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass.).

The chances that the proposal will make it to Bush's desk for his signature are uncertain. Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas), who as chairman of the Judiciary Committee's subcommittee on immigration will have considerable influence on such legislation, said in an interview Thursday that he could not envision Congress enacting a bill that included what he called a "work and stay" provision.

"I have grave doubts about whether anything with that could pass, particularly in the House," said Cornyn, who is drafting a competing immigration bill.

A vocal minority among House Republicans has called for a crackdown on immigration, both illegal and legal, saying that any sort of guest worker program would amount to amnesty for lawbreakers. In addition, the Senate last month blocked consideration of a more limited immigration bill that would have legalized the presence in the United States of half a million farmworkers and their families.

Cornyn, adding that he welcomed "the continuing contribution" from McCain and Kennedy, said he hoped the issue would reach the Senate floor this year.

The idea behind the new legislation, its sponsors said Thursday, is to acknowledge that the American economy relies on illegal immigrants "” estimated at 10 million to 12 million "” to do low-paying jobs unpalatable to Americans, such as washing dishes, harvesting crops and providing child care, and to allow businesses, which can now get visas for 5,000 workers a year, to function legally.

"We have entire industries working with a workforce that is here illegally," said Sen. Sam Brownback (R-Kan.), another Senate sponsor.

The bill would create two new categories of visas: one for foreigners who want to come to the United States as temporary workers and one for individuals already here illegally.

Jobs would be posted on an Internet-based electronic database, America's Job Bank; foreign workers who found jobs through that database would go to a U.S. consulate, where the offer would be verified and a biometric, machine-readable, tamper-proof visa issued. The new temporary workers would pay a $500 processing fee. Their visas would be valid for three years and could be renewed for three more. They could apply for permanent resident status after four years, and their employer could seek a green card for them at any time.

By contrast, workers already here illegally would be required to come forward and register with the U.S. government. In order to participate in the temporary worker program, they would have to pay $2,000 in fines and work for six more years before seeking permanent residency. In addition, they would have to prove that they were learning English and undergo stringent criminal background checks.

Addressing concerns that a guest worker program would allow people already here illegally to "jump the line" in seeking permanent residency, Kennedy said: "This does not provide a free pass to anyone."

The sponsors said the legislation also would result in better border security and fewer fatalities among people making the dangerous crossing from Mexico through the desert. In addition, they said, businesses that hire illegal workers would face strict new enforcement penalties.

The measure, said Rep. Luis V. Gutierrez (D-Ill.), an author of the House bill, would take illegal immigration "out of the shadows and bring it into the light of day."

Businesses that rely on illegal immigrants as employees largely embraced the proposal. The National Restaurant Assn. called it "a realistic and balanced approach to addressing the security and economic shortcomings of our immigration system."

A coalition of conservatives and business leaders, led by Tamar Jacoby of the Manhattan Institute and Jeff Bell of the Capital City Partners, praised the legislators for crafting "a solution that will permit us to retake control of our borders and reestablish the rule of law."

The Service Employees International Union praised the "earned path to legal status for hard-working, tax-paying immigrants." And the National Immigration Forum, a Washington advocacy group for immigrants, said the bill "gets the combination of admissions and enforcement just about right. In contrast to the status quo, it will mean honest admissions policies, tightly enforced."

But the Federation for American Immigration Reform, a Washington group that supports lower immigration limits and better controls on borders, said the bill "perpetuates the continued dependence on foreign workers that is helping undermine economic opportunities for hard-working Americans."

The group's president, Dan Stein, said in an interview that the bill "is really an amnesty. It doesn't fix anything that needs to be fixed, and it rewards those people who come illegally."
From Faheem: [The biggest Black janitorial Union in the nation was disbandon and destroyed because Companies start hiring Mexicans to do it cheaper.

(this is an excellent point!!!!!!!!!)

Mexicans are not doing work no one else wants to do, they are doing the work cheaper than most would do it in many cases and outside employment laws and guidelines in others.]

Nayo sadSo then, what your'e saying is that big business/companies are using the Mexican worker like that of a 'strike breaker', even though the American worker is not on strike. They have made the Mexican worker, the 'uber scab' so to speak. Yet they are undermining both the lower and middle classes; especially when you tally in 'outsourcing'.
-------------------------------------------

I think Fox statements were an ignorant way of aknowledging Black men and women in America being in dire need of employment with and unemployment rate double that of white folk but yet in his eyes we still refuse to do the work Mexican men and women are willing to do which is a lie.
-----------------------------------------------

From (Kevin41) The effort to undercut the American worker is being done.....and any middle class fool that supported W should have their job taken from THEM......because poor racist whites and self-hating negroes do not understand that bush & co are for rich white businessmen only....and anyone else who benefits from their policy coincidentally did so.....
--------------------------------------------

Excellent points Kevin41!!!!
By TRACI CARL, Associated Press Writer 44 minutes ago
MEXICO CITY -

Vicente Fox refused to apologize Monday for saying Mexicans in the United States do the work that blacks won't "” a comment widely viewed as acceptable in a country where blackface comedy is still considered funny and nicknames often reflect skin color.
State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said the U.S. Embassy in Mexico City had raised the issue with the Mexican government. "That's a very insensitive and inappropriate way to phrase this and we would hope that (the Mexicans) would clarify the remarks if they have a chance," Boucher said. Fox's spokesman, Ruben Aguilar, said the remark has been misinterpreted as a racial slur. He said the president was speaking in defense of Mexican migrants as they come under attack by the new U.S. immigration measures that include a wall along the U.S.-California border.
Stung by the U.S. crackdown on illegal immigrants, many Mexicans "” including Mexico City's archbishop "” said Fox was just stating a fact.
"The president was just telling the truth," said Celedonio Gonzalez, a 35-year-old carpenter who worked illegally in Dallas for six months in 2001. "Mexicans go to the United States because they have to. Blacks want to earn better wages, and the Mexican "” because he is illegal "” takes what they pay him."
But the Rev. Jesse Jackson and the Rev. Al Sharpton, two black U.S. civil rights activists, said Fox should apologize. "His statement had the impact of being inciting and divisive," Jackson said. Lisa Catanzarite, a sociologist at Washington State University, disputed Fox's assertion. She said there is intense competition for lucrative working class jobs like construction and that employers usually prefer to hire immigrants who don't know their rights.
"What Vicente Fox called a willingness to work ... translates into extreme exploitability," she said. Fox made the comment Friday during a public appearance in Puerto Vallarta, saying: "There's no doubt that Mexican men and women "” full of dignity, willpower and a capacity for work "” are doing the work that not even blacks want to do in the United States." Responding to the criticism Monday, Aguilar read a statement expressing Fox's "enormous respect for minorities, whatever their racial, ethnic or religious origin." "The purpose (of the comment) was none other than to show the importance Mexican workers have today in the development and progress of U.S. society," Aguilar said, repeating a statement released Saturday.
He refused to comment further, saying only that Fox would "intensify his diplomatic efforts to protect the integrity of the Mexicans living in that country." The dispute reflects Fox's growing frustration with U.S. immigration policy and deteriorating relations between the two nations.
The Mexican government was expected to send a diplomatic letter to the United States on Monday protesting recent measures that include requiring states to verify that people who apply for a driver's license are in the country legally, making it harder for migrants to gain amnesty, and overriding environmental laws to build a barrier along the California border with Mexico.The measures have been widely criticized in Mexico, where residents increasingly see the United States as adopting anti-migrant policies.
Even Cardinal Norberto Rivera Carrera, the archbishop of Mexico City, criticized the U.S. policy as ridiculous and defended Fox's comments, saying: "The declaration had nothing to do with racism. It is a reality in the United States that anyone can prove." Gilberto Rincon, president of the National Council to Prevent Discrimination, said the statement was "unfortunate." But, speaking after releasing a report on racism in Mexico, he said it reflected outdated language more than a racist attitude.
Fox has championed the rights of minorities and the disabled and has led a successful campaign to amend the constitution to make discrimination a crime. George Grayson, a Mexican expert with the College of William & Mary in Virginia, said the dispute will hurt Fox's campaign to liberalize immigration laws, adding that it shows "once again how tone deaf Mexico's president is with respect to the United States." While Mexico has a few, isolated black communities, the population is dominated by descendants of the country's Spanish colonizers and its native Indians. Comments that would generally be considered openly racist in the United States generate little attention here.
One afternoon television program regularly features a comedian in blackface chasing actresses in skimpy outfits, while an advertisement for a small, chocolate pastry called the "negrito" "” the little black man "” shows a white boy sprouting an afro as he eats the sweet. Many people hand out nicknames based on skin color. Victor Hugo Flores, a 30-year-old bond salesman, cringed when asked what he thought of Fox's comment, but said it isn't too different from popular sayings celebrating what Mexicans see as a strong work ethic among blacks. "It was bad, but it really isn't racist," he said. "Maybe the president shouldn't have said it. But here we say things like, 'He works like a black person,' and it's normal."
___
good point, kevin41.

it undercuts LEGAL worker bees. these kinds of comments by president fox are what breeds resentment, contempt and all the scraping and scrapping all the bottom feeders tend to do w/o recognizing how america, incorporated really operates.

the latino/a population is on a m-i-s-s-i-o-n; they intend to knock out the black power structure and gain favor in gov't, in business--b.a.m.n.

there was a point last year (or the year before) where every f'n time i turned around, president fox was at bush's ranch in texas, at the vacation spot at camp david, at the white house. dude practically LIVES here.

i believe that the latino/a power base will be 10x stronger than it already is in about 10 years. we'll see if they're going to stick to the "we're ALL minorities!" line they love to parrot while simultaneously knifing the aa community's collective backside out.
This guy is a Casatillo Mexican. In other words he is a white/European man of Mexican birth... No indigenous/Aztec blood in him... And his ilk will get angry if you lump them in with the commoner Mestizo and Indio masses. He is part of the White elite ruling class in Mexico. Why are we so surprised that a white man that happens to speak Spanish thinks this way?
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I read there is a movement by Latinos to have as many kids as possible and to populate several Southwestern states, and take them back from America. Forgot what it is called.---Now I can't find who said it, but you know who you are.

This sounds like a plan that should work.

But there is no guarantee in the construction.

Dominance in population, and surely dominance in the registered vote would assure control of the political structure of a State.

I'm not sure, and I haven't looked lately, but isn't that the case for the State of Mississippi?

If true, certainly it hasn't worked there. So what does it take?

I don't fully understand what is going on with America's power structure and the illegal immigrants from Mexico.

That's conspiratorial.

for example what the United States is allowing Colorado to do in the City of Denver. Current news reports have an illegal with a record, AND no driver's license to go unchallenged BY (city) LAW as to citizenship status when arrested.

What IS that????

I also believe Oshun Auset put Fox's business in the street with his ethnicity allegiance.

This is a circumstance going downhill.

Fast.


PEACE

Jim Chester
My visceral reponse to the quagmire of 'illegal immigration' inclines me to take the notion that the US of Amrika is again witnessing 'the chickens coming home to roost' as so eloquently illustrated by Malcolm X at the assination of JFK. For as long as I can remember, our so-called government has enjoyed a somewhat unspoken, converted, defacto agreement with the people of central america (not just the mexicans). Essentially, they would (used to be call 'seasonal workers) come, pick the strawberries, cucumbers, lettuce and other produce then go home or on to the next 'seasonal harvest'. -Sorta like sharecropping- Anyway, when coporate amerika made the connection that cheap labor + production = much larger profit$, they opened up the flood gates. Now instead of dealing with a handful of seasonal workers, our so-called government is faced with a country that publishes manuals on how to cross the boarder, work for the amerikan dollar, and bring it home to mexico. And although the president of mexico's statement was no doubt laced with racist stereotypical sentiments.....he probably unintentionally revealed a significant factor in this historical association enjoyed by both the american social elite and their mexican bedfellows. Just my gut feeling......and in the words of Charles Barkley, "I may be wrong -- but I doubt it"
Good point Scalder, where I live in Oregon it used to be they would come work the harvests and then leave to go home or find other work in parts of the country where harvesting was still ongoing, nowadays they are staying and bringing the entire multi-generational family structure with them.
I understand the cheap labor part.

And the profit part.

I don't get the accommodation of the rights and privileges of citizenship, and the blatant failure to enforce the law.

Even in the presence of immigration terrorist threat.

PEACE

Jim Chester
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
This guy is a Casatillo Mexican. In other words he is a white/European man of Mexican birth... No indigenous/aztec blood in him... And his ilk will get angry if youlump them in with the commoner mestizos and Indios. He is part of the White elite ruling class in Mexico. WHy are we so surprised a white amn that wpeaks Spanish thinks this way?



Excellent assesment. But, I am not surprised, I am dismayed. I did'nt think the sur last name 'Fox' was of latin origins. As to the 'conspiratorial' nature of what we/you/ are witnessing, there is some truth in 'advertisement'. In my mothers' neighborhood, we were one of several black and white families. Today my mother is the last holdout of the that earlier neighborhood (circa late 1970's-early 1980's. These changes are evidence throughout my city. The influx of Mexican nationals, is at times, overwhelming.
And this is throughout previously predominant AA and 'mixed communities. This in not xenophobic paranoia on my part; but, the census does'nt lie, and the change in the social environment, gives indication of what is brewing/to come.
I just hope they are prepared to take our place on the whiteman's shit list as eagerly as they are to replace us in the workplace, because you know somebody is going to catch hell for the everyday shit that happens in this country.
quote:
Originally posted by jazzdog:
I just hope they are prepared to take our place on the whiteman's shit list as eagerly as they are to replace us in the workplace, because you know somebody is going to catch hell for the everyday shit that happens in this country.


The newly emerging Mexican 'power' in the U.S., will not experience what the Black American did. The Black American community will simply become the'Dalit's of the North American continent.
'Dalit's---nayo

New to me. Not that I have more than a cursory knowledge of India's caste system.

Thanks for thanks for the nudge that made me go look.

The reference tweaked my continuing concern for our refusal to assert identity in a manner all other do.

Fox got attention because his simply use of the word 'black' immediately triggered:

1. the reaction of those who speak in the name of Americans of unknown African ancestry.

2. the talk-radio industry in also assuming there was 'dispersion' cast on Americans of unknown African ancestry.

3. the main media responded with the same conclusion.

4. ,and as individuals, we did too.

As you know, I am resolute on the issue of identity.

The idea that this racist from Mexico can gain political capital against us as a people with the simple use of 'color' pisses me off.

Someone is sure to say, 'What's the difference? We all know who is talking about.'

My response is: He called us what's not who.

PEACE

Jim Chester
quote:
Originally posted by nayo:
The newly emerging Mexican 'power' in the U.S., will not experience what the Black American did. The Black American community will simply become the'Dalit's of the North American continent.


I thoght we already are and have been?
quote:
Originally posted by Scalder:
My visceral reponse to the quagmire of 'illegal immigration' inclines me to take the notion that the US of Amrika is again witnessing 'the chickens coming home to roost' as so eloquently illustrated by Malcolm X at the assination of JFK. For as long as I can remember, our so-called government has enjoyed a somewhat unspoken, converted, defacto agreement with the people of central america (not just the mexicans). Essentially, they would (used to be call 'seasonal workers) come, pick the strawberries, cucumbers, lettuce and other produce then go home or on to the next 'seasonal harvest'. -Sorta like sharecropping- Anyway, when coporate amerika made the connection that cheap labor + production = much larger profit$, they opened up the flood gates. Now instead of dealing with a handful of seasonal workers, our so-called government is faced with a country that publishes manuals on how to cross the boarder, work for the amerikan dollar, and bring it home to mexico. And although the president of mexico's statement was no doubt laced with racist stereotypical sentiments.....he probably unintentionally revealed a significant factor in this historical association enjoyed by both the american social elite and their mexican bedfellows. Just my gut feeling......and in the words of Charles Barkley, "I may be wrong -- but I doubt it"


I agree.
quote:
Originally posted by nayo:
This in not xenophobic paranoia on my part; but, the census does'nt lie, and the change in the social environment, gives indication of what is brewing/to come.


I hope they take over, or rather, take back their land. Viva La Raza! lol.
quote:
I just hope they are prepared to take our place on the whiteman's shit list as eagerly as they are to replace us in the workplace, because you know somebody is going to catch hell for the everyday shit that happens in this country.


JazzDog, My experience in AZ tells me that they won't. Here, the 1st generation are immigrants, legally or otherwise.

The 1st US born are discouraged from speaking their native tongue anywhere other than at home. This generation is encouraged to date/mate with whites or "fair skinned" Mexicans.

he 2nd generation, understand Spanish but rarely speak it. And when this group comes of age, they claim america as their national origin. That is until it comes time for filling out applications, then it's, "Yo soy Mexicanos."

This doesn't speak for all immigrants, or even most; but it represents a substantial group.
Shyyyit, they are taking good jobs, I hardly ever see black heavy equipment operators anymore, rare.

Fox argues strongly for a wide open S. border mainly because the largest flow of money into Mexico is from expatriates in America. America is providing jobs his country doesn't. Also, more than 30% of American prisons are illegal immigrants, again Americans taking on a burden Fox does not have to deal with. iIt is to Mexico's and all of S. America's advantage to allow the status quo to continue. A recent study showed the net monetary result of uncontrolled immigration is 65 billion bucks a year and growing to U.S. taxpayers. This is after their contribution in the States. African Americans are being displaced to address the needs of illegal immigrants in my opinion.

Keep in mind the biggest political lobbyists are Hispanic\Mexican business culture who want an open S. border because the more Mexicans, Hispanics the more money they make, who spend a significant amount of money in their own communities, much of it never leaves their communities. They get cheap labor and more customers at the same time as the Hispanic population increases.
Jesse Jackson already in Mexico City meeting with Fox. You think he looking out for African Americans or mostly himself.
quote:
Originally posted by Momentum:
Jesse Jackson already in Mexico City meeting with Fox. You think he looking out for African Americans or mostly himself.


30/70. The larger percentage on himself. However, if Jackson had'nt 'officially' and publicly addressed this, who would?
And, I agree with you about the heavy equipment operators. In my city, there has been massive developemnt in restructuring the downtown neighborhoods, and for every African American construction worker, I have seen (not approximate) 20 hispanic, 40 caucasian.

Several of my male friends made numerous attempts to gain a foothold in this construction boom, but failed miserably.
Here is the perspective of an Afro-Dominican friend of mine. I agree with it.(Thanks Vic!)

President Vicente Fox said what he meant and meant what he said! Period. And the uproar about his statements has nothing at all to do with being "too politically -correct." Those of us who are Afro-Latinos, or those Blacks who are well-aware of racism "Latin style," will know that there's no such thing as a "multi-racial people of color" category in Latin America, as we sometimes hear this term used in the United States. In the last twenty years or so, "Hispanics," Asians, African-Americans and Native-Americans in the U.S. have been collectively referred to as "people of color." In Latin America, and specifically in Mexico, MOST people are "of color," but there are distinctions made down to the finest shade and degree of racial mixture. A Black person is almost NEVER grouped in the same category as a dark Indian; unless it's the "poor" category. Your social status and economic status are largely formed by the lesser or greater degrees of white, indigenous or African blood. It plays out like this: Whites, like President Fox, are always at the top of the social and economic scale (they form the elites); "mestizos" (the vast majority of Mexicans) are the next level---middle class, lower middle class and poor; and Blacks are at the very bottom---the very lowest class of society. So, in Vicente Fox's way of thinking, it is the GREATEST INSULT for a Mexican "mestizo" to have to clean "doo-doo" out of toilets in hotels that Blacks may have "crapped" in, or crawl on their hands and knees pulling up weeds in in strawberry fields;---work that most African-Americans no longer will do. This goes against Mexican and Latin American society in general. (In the Dominican Republic there is a saying: "Solamente los Haitianos cortan la caña!"/"Only Haitians cut sugar cane!" And it's true; it is practically unheard of for a native Dominican to cut cane). This mindset is what drives so many non-Black Hispanics insane on the West Coast and in the Southwest when they come here and find that B-L-A-C-K people, "negros" (pronounced "Nay-gros"), "Mayates" (the Mexican-American word for "n..gger"), can actually be on a socio-economic scale higher than a Hispanic "mestizo" or Indian, or even a Hispanic "white!" Get used to it, Señor Presidente!
President Vicente Fox said what he meant and meant what he said! Period. And the uproar about his statements has nothing at all to do with being "too politically -correct."
---------------------------------------------

I, personally understood what 'vicente' said and meant. No problem there. I am also well aware of the the varying degrees of color/humanity, which the latin culture operates under, hence. 'mayate'. My ire, had/has more to do, with the socio-political 'functionality', and ultimate attempt(contempt?) of vicente's objective: to smear Black Americans, in his quest to uplift his people. I am certain that vicente is well aware of the struggle(s) of African Americans' in the United States; knows about the ongoing struggles, and yet, because he is deeply committed to solving his country's socio-economic problems, by encouraging mass migration to North America, and, is in fact 'peeved', that it's not going fast enough, and, not fast enough according to plan, he felt behoved to denigrate the African American, as a sign of his support for migrating Mexicans and other hispanics;while, at the same time, letting them know, that no matter how difficult the/their struggle is, your'e still 'better than' Black Americans. Of course I'm aware of Latin America's historic debasement of the 'black African'. That point was moot. African Americans, have struggled for years to, reach "even", this 'lowly' status, which vicente, so blithly, if yet covertly, and insidiously stated.
quote:
Originally posted by nayo:
President Vicente Fox said what he meant and meant what he said! Period. And the uproar about his statements has nothing at all to do with being "too politically -correct."
---------------------------------------------

I, personally understood what 'vicente' said and meant. No problem there. I am also well aware of the the varying degrees of color/humanity, which the latin culture operates under, hence. 'mayate'.


Nobody said you didn't. I wasn't directing my friends thoughts to you or any post you have made, hence there was no referrence to you by name. It just happened to have been posted after your last post. I was posting it for the benefit of everyone.

quote:
My ire, had/has more to do, with the socio-political 'functionality', and ultimate attempt(contempt?) of vicente's objective: to smear Black Americans, in his quest to uplift his people.


The Mexican masses are not 'his' people.

quote:
I am certain that vicente is well aware of the struggle(s) of African Americans' in the United States; knows about the ongoing struggles, and yet, because he is deeply committed to solving his country's socio-economic problems, by encouraging mass migration to North America, and, is in fact 'peeved', that it's not going fast enough, and, not fast enough according to plan, he felt behoved to denigrate the African American, as a sign of his support for migrating Mexicans and other hispanics;while, at the same time, letting them know, that no matter how difficult the/their struggle is, your'e still 'better than' Black Americans. Of course I'm aware of Latin America's historic debasement of the 'black African'. That point was moot. African Americans, have struggled for years to, reach "even", this 'lowly' status, which vicente, so blithly, if yet covertly, and insidiously stated.


Although originally I wasn't talking to you, in particular nowe I am.

Nayo,

If you are 'well aware of' the colour caste system of latin America, and that Vicente is a white/European elite within that society. I don't understand your ire at his contempt of Africans in America...

No offense, but your deffensive post, and repettative point, are both moot.
No offense, but your deffensive post, and repettative point, are both moot.
----------------------------------------------

You did'nt want a response, than my bad. However, since it was posted, I felt inclined to comment on it. I do'nt know you, so it could'nt possibly be personal. vicente's 'degrading' commentary was, however, something that I did/do take personally, hence my initiative in posting the original article, and my comments.

With that said, and my final response, and, it's not a 'defensive mode', just defending,(I do'nt know you, and was commenting on your 'friend's statements, which, appeared to be rather cavalier on how African Americans should 'digest', yet another swipe at their existence in the land of plenty, made by a Mexican national). vicente, has to have known, or at least been vaguely aware of what a comment like that could mean to African Americans; if he does'nt care, than so be it; but he will/was called on it. And he should have been.

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