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Peace...

Men love dating, knowing, talking to, spending time with, and even purchasing things for women who are liberal with sex. Men appreciate the hell out a woman who is just as willing as he is to have sex. the bigger her appetite, the better.

Truth is, most men today don't even have a problem with the fact that while a woman is not with him, she is in bed with someone else.

This kind of woman is good to know...When asked what the nature of the relationship is...the man smirks, and says "She is just a good friend"...His friends know what that means, and so they start begging for her telephone number. They want to be her friend too.

Will a man knowingly marry a "Freak"? Hell Naw...Why??

Well the truth is that a man cannot stomach the thought of his woman in the bed of scores of other men. Even while he would date this kind of woman, he does not like the idea that this woman will carry, and raise his seed.

men aren't necessarily looking for a pristine woman..he understands that most women have some sexual experience by the time they reach adulthood, however, he just doesn't want the woman who was willing, and ready to have sex at the drop of a dime simply for the sake of pleasure.

Some men will lie and deny this. But...it is the truth. I don't care how beautful a woman is..if a man learns that she is a former Freak...He will not want her as a wife.

Now there is a silver lining to this. there is a way for a woman to redeem herself in the eyes of a potential husband. She must be able to demonstrate plainly that she rejects this kind of lifestyle, that she regrets living like that, and that she wants to be a better woman....

Are there men ready to admit this?



Kai
________________________ By the sun and his brightness! And the moon when she borrows light from him! And the day when it exposes it to view! And the night when it draws a veil over it! And the heaven and its make! And the earth and its extension! And the soul and its perfection!-Surah 91 Holy Qur'an
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Are you really asking a question or are you making a statement? You've already discounted any potential dissenting opinions as "lying and denying" so what's the point of presenting this as a question?

Have you polled enough men to know that:
quote:
Men love dating, knowing, talking to, spending time with, and even purchasing things for women who are liberal with sex. Men appreciate the hell out a woman who is just as willing as he is to have sex. the bigger her appetite, the better.

Truth is, most men today don't even have a problem with the fact that while a woman is not with him, she is in bed with someone else.

This kind of woman is good to know...When asked what the nature of the relationship is...the man smirks, and says "She is just a good friend"...His friends know what that means, and so they start begging for her telephone number. They want to be her friend too.


is an accurate characterization of all (or even most) men?

Additionally, where is your data to validate these conclusions:
quote:
Will a man knowingly marry a "Freak"? Hell Naw...Why??

Well the truth is that a man cannot stomach the thought of his woman in the bed of scores of other men. Even while he would date this kind of woman, he does not like the idea that this woman will carry, and raise his seed.
...
I don't care how beautful a woman is..if a man learns that she is a former Freak...He will not want her as a wife.



IMO, people should view sexuality from a pragmatic, or a functional/moralistic standpoint.

If it's pragmatic, everyone should acknowledge that sex is used for pleasure & procreation. Be honest & responsible in your sexual decisions and drop the value judgements. If your view is functional, any sex outside of procreation is unnecessary. This makes man & woman "freaks". How is "spilling seed" in the context of marriage any different than pre-marital sex?

You present this topic with the notion that a sexually liberated woman is always loose & immoral. You also appear to suggest that a high female libido is wrong in some way. I think that when a person is ready for marriage, they are no longer interested in people who are not of like mind. If a women is seriously preparing for marriage with a man, why would she be out dating others? You're setting up an enigmatic scenario.
Not true,

There are men including myself who would marry a women who you have characterized as a "freak". Number one you can change a person, if they are willing to take a new perspective on life. Number two, even if you could not successfully change a person, there are understandings that can be reached.

There are married couples, who seperately *become the "freaks" you characterize. Furthermore, some of these very same individuals stay married for one reason or another, namely their children, aside from all else they share, including sex.
Peace....


quote:
Are you really asking a question or are you making a statement? You've already discounted any potential dissenting opinions as "lying and denying" so what's the point of presenting this as a question?



Actually I was doing both. I made a statement, and I asked a question.

I never said that every man likes a promiscuous woman.

There is always the rule, and the exception to the rule. I would say that men who date specifically for the purpose of finding a wife are the exception.

My request for an admission was directed at men who date women hoping for a sexual encounter. Men who will only date women that they would marry have no standing as it relates to this issue.

quote:
Have you polled enough men to know that:


Yes I have

quote:
Additionally, where is your data to validate these conclusions:


quote:
Will a man knowingly marry a "Freak"? Hell Naw...Why??Well the truth is that a man cannot stomach the thought of his woman in the bed of scores of other men. Even while he would date this kind of woman, he does not like the idea that this woman will carry, and raise his seed. I don't care how beautful a woman is..if a man learns that she is a former Freak...He will not want her as a wife.


My data was compiled from interviews onducted with men that I have encountered for several years. Did I conduct a formal study? No...

quote:
If it's pragmatic, everyone should acknowledge that sex is used for pleasure & procreation. Be honest & responsible in your sexual decisions and drop the value judgements. If your view is functional, any sex outside of procreation is unnecessary. This makes man & woman "freaks". How is "spilling seed" in the context of marriage any different than pre-marital sex?


Very well. Ddouble are you saying that you would be willing to marry a woman who has enjoyed hundreds of sexual partners before she fell in love with you? Let us go as far as saying that you were certain that she had no STD...Would her sexual past be irrelevant? What if you knew quite a few of the men she was intimate with? What if she was involved in an orgy with the entire football team at your college?

quote:
You present this topic with the notion that a sexually liberated woman is always loose & immoral. You also appear to suggest that a high female libido is wrong in some way.


I have made no such suggestion. i have made no judgment relating to morality on this thread.

quote:
I think that when a person is ready for marriage, they are no longer interested in people who are not of like mind.


There are many woman who would like to be married, but while they are still single they enjoy a promiscuous lifestyle.

quote:
If a women is seriously preparing for marriage with a man, why would she be out dating others?


because she enjoys the cmpany of the opposite sex, and she is lonely.

quote:
You're setting up an enigmatic scenario.



This scenario is the everyday life of many black men in America.



Kai
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
I don't like being involved with promiscuous women.... As I am not myself promiscuous. I do not become involved with women who I would never consider marrying. Maybe I'm weird that way. But that is the way I am.


Well, HB, if you are weird, them I am right there with you....I don't like promiscuous women as I am not promiscuous....way too much drama involved.
It sounds like you're saying men should make their marriage decisions based on what other people think. I disagree. If I love a woman who is committed to a monogamous relationship with me, disease free & honest enough to inform of her past, why should I care what past lovers and other people outside of our relationship think? If I've decided that I'm OK with it, that's all that matters.

I must be leading a blessed (or sheltered) life because I can't relate to your everyday scenario.
Peace....

quote:
It sounds like you're saying men should make their marriage decisions based on what other people think. I disagree. If I love a woman who is committed to a monogamous relationship with me, disease free & honest enough to inform of her past, why should I care what past lovers and other people outside of our relationship think? If I've decided that I'm OK with it, that's all that matters.

I must be leading a blessed (or sheltered) life because I can't relate to your everyday scenario.



I think this is noble of you. However, what if this woman only ceased to live like this because she loves you? What will happen to the relationship once the two of you face a serious conflict? Would you trust her to take time away from you? Just asking....But..wouldn't you start wondering about what she might be doing?



Kai
quote:
Originally posted by virtue:
Question.....

Then I'm jumping off this thread....


Do any of you who do not like promiscuous women... support the threads of half-naked women in this section?


Just curious....

That's all...


Peace,
Virtue


You are too funny! Don't throw a jab & run - stick around.

Please explain your correlation between the picture threads in the Den and promiscuous women. Also, since you're here, please explain why your question is directed only toward men who don't like promiscuous women. Do you believe there are men at AA.org that like loose women? How can you tell who's who? I'm just trying to figure out why you make such a clear distinction in your question? I don't want to be accused of putting any words in your mouth - please make your statements (whatever they are) & make them plain.
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quote:
Originally posted by Kai:
Peace....

quote:
It sounds like you're saying men should make their marriage decisions based on what other people think. I disagree. If I love a woman who is committed to a monogamous relationship with me, disease free & honest enough to inform of her past, why should I care what past lovers and other people outside of our relationship think? If I've decided that I'm OK with it, that's all that matters.

I must be leading a blessed (or sheltered) life because I can't relate to your everyday scenario.



I think this is noble of you. However, what if this woman only ceased to live like this because she loves you? What will happen to the relationship once the two of you face a serious conflict? Would you trust her to take time away from you? Just asking....But..wouldn't you start wondering about what she might be doing?



Kai


If the trust, communication & fidelity in our relationship is that shallow, then neither of us were really ready for the covenant of marriage in the first place.
Peace...


Bruh...almost every marraige suffers serious trials...To separate for a time would be normal especially in the beginning of the relationship. Trust is based upon something. If trust is built upon love for one another, and not a love of self, then as soon as one of you doubts the other's love, the trust will fail.


If a woman willfully allows many different men to enter her, then I believe that she is lacking self esteem, and self love. Once her feelings for you come into question, what is to stop her from returning to her former life? especially since there will be plenty of men in constant pursuit of her.



Kai
Before we go further Kai, please understand that if you truly want a dialogue you have to be open to one. You keep presenting personal philosophies as universal truths.

All couples do not resolve conflict in the manner you describe, nor do all people make decisions for the reasons you state. You keep setting up strawmans to make your point. Every time you do that, you might as well be talking to yourself. It's tough to engage you when you attempt to shut down any opposing viewpoint before you finish asking your question. Work with me brother...
Peace...

I am open to a discussion, and I do not intend to offer my opinions as Universal truths. some things are pretty typical of marraige. Conflict is typical of any relationship, marraige especially.

Trust is based on something. This is a truth. You must have a reason to trust someone. Most people would readily agree that trust is something you build. Anytime you build a thing you build it upon something which upholds it. If love is the foundation of trust, then the trust will stand so long as the love stands. If something shakes your love, it will disturb your trust. When you trust a person because of who they have crafted themselves to be independent of their love, then even if they are not with you, you will trust that they will be the same trustworthy person they have always been.

Ddouble, I say this to you, and to everyone one this board, I am not unreasonable. I will respect a dialogue so long as I feel like I am being respected. I understand that you all are a family, and that I am a stranger...Fine. I would hope that this forum is receptive to new members who have their own way of thinking which may or may not agree with the consensus here. I am sure that while I am here I will learn much...Perhaps if everyone on this board is open to the same we all can benefit.



Kai
quote:
Originally posted by Kai:
Truth is, most men today don't even have a problem with the fact that while a woman is not with him, she is in bed with someone else.
I think that men may say this, but in reality I don't believe this is true...

quote:
...His friends know what that means, and so they start begging for her telephone number. They want to be her friend too.
Screw the same girl as my boy while he is too?? I don't think so...


quote:
...he just doesn't want the woman who was willing, and ready to have sex at the drop of a dime simply for the sake of pleasure.
Yes he does - as long as it's with him... he just doesn't want her to be that free with others...

quote:
...I don't care how beautful a woman is..if a man learns that she is a former Freak...He will not want her as a wife."
Which is exactly why most women will lie about their past regardless of how many partners she as had...
quote:
Originally posted by virtue:
Question.....

Then I'm jumping off this thread....


Do any of you who do not like promiscuous women... support the threads of half-naked women in this section?


Just curious....

That's all...


Peace,
Virtue


Hey Virtue,
don't jump ship...we don't bite, maybe nibble but definitely no biting. Anyway, the pics of half-naked women on this section is just eye-candy...no more! Besides, the ladies posted a few eye-candies for Sandye with no complaints from most of the guys! As you may know, guys tend to be visual but after seeing and reading the comments on Sandye's eye-candy section, I have to say that the neurology textbooks might need a little revision.
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by virtue:



Do any of you who do not like promiscuous women... support the threads of half-naked women in this section?



There's a (HUGE) difference between (anonymously) looking at a picture and (physically) sharing your body with another person.
The desirous idea behind these actions is the same......

lust....

Peace,
Virtue
quote:
Originally posted by virtue:
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by virtue:



Do any of you who do not like promiscuous women... support the threads of half-naked women in this section?



There's a (HUGE) difference between (anonymously) looking at a picture and (physically) sharing your body with another person.
The desirous idea behind these actions is the same......

lust....

But, there is a difference between experiencing the idea of lust, and acting on it.
Your point?

This is obvious..... I wasn't focusing on the obvious.... or the reason many men like to point out.... "I didn't do anything"....

I was investigating the idea that whether or not a man "acts" on his desires..... The desire is the same..... He lusts after women that are viewed as promiscuous or is promiscuous....

There are no threads full of brilliant women, modestly dressed women or women of good morals..... titillating and exciting the men here.....this is not of interest to the men here..... the interest is the woman who is open with her sexuality.... enough to be photographed in motion simulating acts gratifying to the men...

Peace,
Virtue
quote:
Originally posted by virtue:

There are no threads full of brilliant women, modestly dressed women or women of good morals..... titillating and exciting the men here.....this is not of interest to the men here..... the interest is the woman who is open with her sexuality.... enough to be photographed in motion simulating acts gratifying to the men...

I strongly disagree. This board is full of brilliant women with good morals (who may or may not dress modestly) that are titillating and exciting to the men here. You're extrapolating that the feeling of lust (which is often a passing, momentary feeling) is somehow equal to any sort of genuine interest. However, they are not in any way equal.

As proof of this, you need only compare the compliments made by the men in Radio Raheem's picture threads, to the compliments made by the men to the women on this board. Those whose insight, sincerity, and intelligence, have earned them such praise.
quote:
Originally posted by virtue:
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by virtue:



Do any of you who do not like promiscuous women... support the threads of half-naked women in this section?



There's a (HUGE) difference between (anonymously) looking at a picture and (physically) sharing your body with another person.
The desirous idea behind these actions is the same......

lust....

Peace,
Virtue


The idea/emotion behind imagining that you killed someone and actually killing someone can be the same too... But the acts are very different.

In a fantasy, you haven't committed yourself...You simply entertain the possibility... And you can also imagine away (or simply ignore) the harsher aspects of the reality. For example, I can imagine that the woman is not actually sharing herself with the world in her picture but that it is meant for my eyes only. And If I fantasize about Sanaa Lathan, though she is a complete stranger to me, I can imagine she is my wife. Whereas in an actual encounter with her it would probably become evident very quickly that we are complete strangers and have no real intimacy.

Lastly, when we look at the pics, we're not thinking "Oh Geez, here's a loose woman... I'm soooooo excited." but rather "Here's a beautiful woman who is sexually powerful." The idea that she may be "loose" doesn't even come into play... In fact, the idea that she may be loose is arguably in its own distinct category of fantasy.
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quote:
Originally posted by virtue:

There are no threads full of brilliant women, modestly dressed women or women of good morals..... titillating and exciting the men here.....this is not of interest to the men here..... the interest is the woman who is open with her sexuality.... enough to be photographed in motion simulating acts gratifying to the men...



There are the Sanaa Lathan and Gabriel Union threads. There is the Dorothy Dandridge thread. In fact, in the Gabriel Union thread, people commented on how wholesome her beauty was - the girl next door. Kresge remarked that she resembled his sister - and then yours truly tried to get the inside track to his sister.

If I knew where to get the pictures I'd start my own threads featuring the type of women you mention. I once tried but it was time consuming and not easy to find pics. Maybe I can get a lesson from Radio.
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by virtue:
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by virtue:



Do any of you who do not like promiscuous women... support the threads of half-naked women in this section?



There's a (HUGE) difference between (anonymously) looking at a picture and (physically) sharing your body with another person.
The desirous idea behind these actions is the same......

lust....

Peace,
Virtue


The idea/emotion behind imagining that you killed someone and actually killing someone can be the same too... But the acts are very different.

In a fantasy, you haven't committed yourself...You simply entertain the possibility... And you can also imagine away (or simply ignore) the harsher aspects of the reality. For example, I can imagine that the woman is not actually sharing herself with the world in her picture but that it is meant for my eyes only. And If I fantasize about Sanaa Lathan, though she is a complete stranger to me, I can imagine she is my wife. Whereas in an actual encounter with her it would probably become evident very quickly that we are complete strangers and have no real intimacy.

Lastly, when we look at the pics, we're not thinking "Oh Geez, here's a loose woman... I'm soooooo excited." but rather "Here's a beautiful woman who is sexually powerful." The idea that she may be "loose" doesn't even come into play... In fact, the idea that she may be loose is arguably in its own distinct category of fantasy.
] You're kidding right? You think I'm going to believe that men don't look at those pictures because it excites them? Okay...... As far as being loose..... I don't think men who view photos such as this "think" much of anything...... However.... A woman with a thong on posing for God knows how many male strangers doing a close up of her rear simulating sexual movements or positions would be sending the message of sexual readiness and openness to hundreds (thousands?) of men..... would be considered in even today's time as loose........

one does not have to be rigid or religious to see that....


Peace,
Virtue
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
quote:
Originally posted by virtue:

There are no threads full of brilliant women, modestly dressed women or women of good morals..... titillating and exciting the men here.....this is not of interest to the men here..... the interest is the woman who is open with her sexuality.... enough to be photographed in motion simulating acts gratifying to the men...

I strongly disagree. This board is full of brilliant women with good morals (who may or may not dress modestly) that are titillating and exciting to the men here. You're extrapolating that the feeling of lust (which is often a passing, momentary feeling) is somehow equal to any sort of genuine interest. However, they are not in any way equal.

As proof of this, you need only compare the compliments made by the men in Radio Raheem's picture threads, to the compliments made by the men to the women on this board. Those whose insight, sincerity, and intelligence, have earned them such praise.
The threads with the most hits are the ones with naked women..... so a few comments here and there about women with substance are...... nice..... but not the norm..... and certainly not the most popular...


**Also, I was a member of another board (many members here were there too---a hip hop board--don't ask--) and the moderator there started a thread full of modestly dressed women and muslim women in beautiful garments from around the world...... many of the male posters commented heavily on their respect, admiration and need for women like this in their lives...... the thread was very popular and was re-done several times.....

the message was not lost on the women.....

at least not me....



Peace,
Virtue
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quote:
Originally posted by virtue:
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
quote:
Originally posted by virtue:

There are no threads full of brilliant women, modestly dressed women or women of good morals..... titillating and exciting the men here.....this is not of interest to the men here..... the interest is the woman who is open with her sexuality.... enough to be photographed in motion simulating acts gratifying to the men...

I strongly disagree. This board is full of brilliant women with good morals (who may or may not dress modestly) that are titillating and exciting to the men here. You're extrapolating that the feeling of lust (which is often a passing, momentary feeling) is somehow equal to any sort of genuine interest. However, they are not in any way equal.

As proof of this, you need only compare the compliments made by the men in Radio Raheem's picture threads, to the compliments made by the men to the women on this board. Those whose insight, sincerity, and intelligence, have earned them such praise.
The threads with the most hits are the ones with naked women..... so a few comments here and there about women with substance are...... nice..... but not the norm..... and certainly not the most popular...

Certainly, you can't equate the number of hits a thread recives, verses the number of actual endorsements of women with substance. Particularly since anyone in the world can view any thread. In fact, your own views of those threads are counted among the number of views.

Virtue, you're trying to mix apples with oranges.

Men are, admittedly, visually stimulated. However, the qualities that men find visually stimulating are very, very broad. When it comes to qualities that inspire genuine interest, every man is far more selective. Even men who don't appear to be selective in their relationships, are far more selective in their relationships than they are in their lusts.
quote:
Originally posted by virtue:
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by virtue:
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by virtue:



Do any of you who do not like promiscuous women... support the threads of half-naked women in this section?



There's a (HUGE) difference between (anonymously) looking at a picture and (physically) sharing your body with another person.
The desirous idea behind these actions is the same......

lust....

Peace,
Virtue


The idea/emotion behind imagining that you killed someone and actually killing someone can be the same too... But the acts are very different.

In a fantasy, you haven't committed yourself...You simply entertain the possibility... And you can also imagine away (or simply ignore) the harsher aspects of the reality. For example, I can imagine that the woman is not actually sharing herself with the world in her picture but that it is meant for my eyes only. And If I fantasize about Sanaa Lathan, though she is a complete stranger to me, I can imagine she is my wife. Whereas in an actual encounter with her it would probably become evident very quickly that we are complete strangers and have no real intimacy.

Lastly, when we look at the pics, we're not thinking "Oh Geez, here's a loose woman... I'm soooooo excited." but rather "Here's a beautiful woman who is sexually powerful." The idea that she may be "loose" doesn't even come into play... In fact, the idea that she may be loose is arguably in its own distinct category of fantasy.
] You're kidding right? You think I'm going to believe that men don't look at those pictures because it excites them? Okay...... As far as being loose..... I don't think men who view photos such as this "think" much of anything...... However.... A woman with a thong on posing for God knows how many male strangers doing a close up of her rear simulating sexual movements or positions would be sending the message of sexual readiness and openness to hundreds (thousands?) of men..... would be considered in even today's time as loose........

one does not have to be rigid or religious to see that....


Peace,
Virtue


You failed to undertand my point. I was not denying being excited. But, YOU, my dear, are the one looking at the picture making the judgement that the woman is "loose."

Who are you to tell us what goes on or doesn't go on in the mind of a fantasizing man???? Especially when I, a man, am telling you something very specific. Who are you to over-rule my opinion on the matter?

My point was that the idea of the woman being loose plays no part in the enjoyment of the pictures. In fact, the idea may ruin that enjoyment.
Gentleman-

You have already beat me to the punch. I wanted virtue to stop all this "I'll slip in a veiled moral judgement/attack then back off and pretend that my intentions were read wrong" stuff. Clearly, she believes that the bikini models are loose (how you determine that from a picture I don't know) and that the appeal of the pictures suggests some lack of moral fiber in the Den. This is plainly an attempt to shame people into following her standards.

There are no naked women here - scantily clad sometimes. But there are threads with fully dressed women (some by RadioRaheem) as others have clearly indicated. Enjoying a fantasy by no means prevents a man from pursuing a woman of substance.

quote:
You're kidding right? You think I'm going to believe that men don't look at those pictures because it excites them? Okay...... As far as being loose..... I don't think men who view photos such as this "think" much of anything...... However.... A woman with a thong on posing for God knows how many male strangers doing a close up of her rear simulating sexual movements or positions would be sending the message of sexual readiness and openness to hundreds (thousands?) of men..... would be considered in even today's time as loose........

one does not have to be rigid or religious to see that....


Peace,
Virtue

Here's another attempt to impose your moral standards on the Den (along with another needless shot at the men here). Just like we respect your right to post your sentiments regarding the pictures, respect our right to have them here. You said that you were going to just avoid picture threads in the Den (you also said you were going to stay out of the Den, but I knew you didn't really mean that!). Why go back on your word & continue to push this issue? Now if the gentlemen here began to make demands on acceptable posting in A Sista's Spot, would you support that as well?
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Black Viking wrote:
quote:
But, there is a difference between experiencing the idea of lust, and acting on it.


Yes there is....isn't it fair to say that a person lusts after something that they find to be desirous?

Fellas, would you enjoy viewing sexy photos of women who did not know that they were being photographed? Isn't part of the lure of the photographs the idea that the model posing wants to be seen?

Men like sexually liberated women...The love looking at half nude photos of these women....But would they marry the sisters demonstrating lap dancing for the world to see? No....

Lusting and actually dating are not the same..yeah...the promiscuous woman is only good enough for thrills.


Kai
Peace...


quote:
In a fantasy, you haven't committed yourself...You simply entertain the possibility... And you can also imagine away (or simply ignore) the harsher aspects of the reality. For example, I can imagine that the woman is not actually sharing herself with the world in her picture but that it is meant for my eyes only. And If I fantasize about Sanaa Lathan, though she is a complete stranger to me, I can imagine she is my wife. Whereas in an actual encounter with her it would probably become evident very quickly that we are complete strangers and have no real intimacy.


It seems that you are saying the same thing as Black Viking...Good enough to fantasize about having...But not good enough to pursue.

So basically Honest brother, you are not promiscuous, you do not date promiscuous women, but you enjoy fantasizing about women who portray themselves as being sexually liberated. this position seems to be a little iffy...


Kai
Peace....


quote:
Here's another attempt to impose your moral standards on the Den (along with another needless shot at the men here). Just like we respect your right to post your sentiments regarding the pictures, respect our right to have them here. You said that you were going to just avoid picture threads in the Den (you also said you were going to stay out of the Den, but I knew you didn't really mean that!). Why go back on your word & continue to push this issue? Now if the gentlemen here began to make demands on acceptable posting in A Sista's Spot, would you support that as well?


Wow. Kinda harsh don't you think?

Take it easy...This is a public forum, not a clubhouse...



Kai
quote:
Originally posted by Kai:
Fellas, would you enjoy viewing sexy photos of women who did not know that they were being photographed? Isn't part of the lure of the photographs the idea that the model posing wants to be seen?

Men like sexually liberated women...The love looking at half nude photos of these women....


Kai, apparently you're speaking for yourself... But again, I think it depends on the man, the model, the scenario, and the moment.... In my case, I disagree about part of the appeal necessarily being the model's knowledge of being seen... For some men that might be a big part of the appeal.... But sometimes the appeal is that of innocence in the model who is seemingly unaware.....

And, Folks, you're having this debate with a * photographer * ... ahem ... I have thought somewhat about these matters.

There is no one rule that fits all situations.
quote:
Originally posted by Kai:

It seems that you are saying the same thing as Black Viking...Good enough to fantasize about having...But not good enough to pursue.

So basically Honest brother, you are not promiscuous, you do not date promiscuous women, but you enjoy fantasizing about women who portray themselves as being sexually liberated. this position seems to be a little iffy...


Kai, we're going to have another problem if you persist in putting your muthaf*ckin' words into MY mouth...

I said no such thing... In fact, I've been saying something quite different.

You people need to stop this shit.

Don't start a thread if you're not prepared to have a real discussion where people have opinions different from yours.
The men who are terrified of what their wife will do when they aren't looking, are usually the ones cheating their asses off.

As for the Thong Parade:

As was discussed before, neither virtue nor I nor anyone else who thinks those threads are... unfortunate, have any desire to tell people what to fantasize about. What is hilarious is that people get so damn INDIGNANT when the microscope is turned on those threads in a "How dare you even mention all those precious thongs?!?!? Them joints is SACRED!!!"

You enjoy it, fine. You like to see it and comment on it as often as RadioRaheem can turn out new threads, cool (I guess). You also should have no problem talking about it like a rational human being when someone asks you a question.

virtue sounds like she's asking why men who claim to not date promiscuous women feel so strongly about seeing as many pictures as they can of naked rumps. There's seemingly a disconnect between the two actions. "Oh no, I would never date a woman who has been around the block, but I will seek out and look at those very same women and whack off like a mutha!" I mentioned something similar in the original discussion and was met with the same heavy-handed "Just because we look at tits doesn't give you any right to JUDGE OUR INTELLIGENCE and that is so WRONG and stop trying to tell me what I can get off on and the actual clit wasn't really showing if you squinted your eyes real hard and blahblahblah" from everyone.

It's irrelevant and nonsensical and misses the mark. These are valid questions people are posing. It's less "stop doing this!" and more "WHY are you doing this?"

There are some things that are just always going to be brought up on this board: men's "insatiable" appetite for T&A, Black women being "picky", HeruStar's Asian girlfriend, etc. Those don't have to be fighting words all the time.

Edited to Add: Before someone jumps to any conclusions, I must say that I do not at all agree with the characterization of these women as promiscuous because they are in suggestive photos. That is not my angle, not something I agree with at all because I define promiscuity by the number of sexual partners someone has had and I don't think promiscuity is always a bad thing. But that does not make virtue's question any less valid or the histrionics any less irrelevant. Cool
Kai, look, if you like sexually liberated women, that's fine! If that's what you appreciate when you look at photos, beautiful! If the thought that they are "loose" turns you on then great! That's your view and I respect that. There might even be a lot of people who agree with you.

ALL I'm saying is that NOT EVERYONE THINKS LIKE THAT!

You'd think this wouldn't be a controversial statement: Different people have different tastes.

But for some reason, Virtue and you have become stuck on informing the rest of us exactly what we think (what goes through our minds) when we look at pictures...

That's wack. I'm sorry...But that really is pretty nutty.
Last edited {1}
quote:
Originally posted by Frenchy:
The men who are terrified of what their wife will do when they aren't looking, are usually the ones cheating their asses off.

As for the Thong Parade:

As was discussed before, neither virtue nor I nor anyone else who thinks those threads are... unfortunate, have any desire to tell people what to fantasize about. What is hilarious is that people get so damn INDIGNANT when the microscope is turned on those threads in a "How dare you even mention all those precious thongs?!?!? Them joints is SACRED!!!"

You enjoy it, fine. You like to see it and comment on it as often as RadioRaheem can turn out new threads, cool (I guess). You also should have no problem talking about it like a rational human being when someone asks you a question.

virtue sounds like she's asking why men who claim to not date promiscuous women feel so strongly about seeing as many pictures as they can of naked rumps. There's seemingly a disconnect between the two actions. "Oh no, I would never date a woman who has been around the block, but I will seek out and look at those very same women and whack off like a mutha!" I mentioned something similar in the original discussion and was met with the same heavy-handed "Just because we look at tits doesn't give you any right to JUDGE OUR INTELLIGENCE and that is so WRONG and stop trying to tell me what I can get off on and the actual clit wasn't really showing if you squinted your eyes real hard and blahblahblah" from everyone.

It's irrelevant and nonsensical and misses the mark. These are valid questions people are posing. It's less "stop doing this!" and more "WHY are you doing this?"

There are some things that are just always going to be brought up on this board: men's "insatiable" appetite for T&A, Black women being "picky", HeruStar's Asian girlfriend, etc. Those don't have to be fighting words all the time.

Edited to Add: Before someone jumps to any conclusions, I must say that I do not at all agree with the characterization of these women as promiscuous because they are in suggestive photos. That is not my angle, not something I agree with at all because I define promiscuity by the number of sexual partners someone has had and I don't think promiscuity is always a bad thing. But that does not make virtue's question any less valid or the histrionics any less irrelevant. Cool



I tried to answer the question. I TRIED TO ANSWER IT HONESTLY.. but what I resent like hell is people not taking the answer seriously and going "No, what you really mean is.."

Frenchy, if someone did that to you, and repeatedly, you'd have a fit...
quote:
Originally posted by Frenchy:
The men who are terrified of what their wife will do when they aren't looking, are usually the ones cheating their asses off.

As for the Thong Parade:

As was discussed before, neither virtue nor I nor anyone else who thinks those threads are... unfortunate, have any desire to tell people what to fantasize about. What is hilarious is that people get so damn INDIGNANT when the microscope is turned on those threads in a "How dare you even mention all those precious thongs?!?!? Them joints is SACRED!!!"

You enjoy it, fine. You like to see it and comment on it as often as RadioRaheem can turn out new threads, cool (I guess). You also should have no problem talking about it like a rational human being when someone asks you a question.

virtue sounds like she's asking why men who claim to not date promiscuous women feel so strongly about seeing as many pictures as they can of naked rumps. There's seemingly a disconnect between the two actions. "Oh no, I would never date a woman who has been around the block, but I will seek out and look at those very same women and whack off like a mutha!" I mentioned something similar in the original discussion and was met with the same heavy-handed "Just because we look at tits doesn't give you any right to JUDGE OUR INTELLIGENCE and that is so WRONG and stop trying to tell me what I can get off on and the actual clit wasn't really showing if you squinted your eyes real hard and blahblahblah" from everyone.

It's irrelevant and nonsensical and misses the mark. These are valid questions people are posing. It's less "stop doing this!" and more "WHY are you doing this?"

There are some things that are just always going to be brought up on this board: men's "insatiable" appetite for T&A, Black women being "picky", HeruStar's Asian girlfriend, etc. Those don't have to be fighting words all the time.

Edited to Add: Before someone jumps to any conclusions, I must say that I do not at all agree with the characterization of these women as promiscuous because they are in suggestive photos. That is not my angle, not something I agree with at all because I define promiscuity by the number of sexual partners someone has had and I don't think promiscuity is always a bad thing. But that does not make virtue's question any less valid or the histrionics any less irrelevant. Cool
kiss
Peace...

quote:
Kai, we're going to have another problem if you persist in putting your muthaf*ckin' words into MY mouth...



You said this:

" I don't like being involved with promiscuous women.... As I am not myself promiscuous. I do not become involved with women who I would never consider marrying."

Further you said this:

"There's a (HUGE) difference between (anonymously) looking at a picture and (physically) sharing your body with another person."

Now, I am sure that you are of those who have viewed the photos of half naked women.

Finally you said this:

"In a fantasy, you haven't committed yourself...You simply entertain the possibility"

Here you are justifying fantasy...The subject is half naked women...Should we not understand that the fantasizing in question is fantasizing about half naked women?

quote:
You people need to stop this shit.


"You people"???

What does that mean? Normally white people say that when referring to black people...What does it mean when you say it?

quote:
Don't start a thread if you're not prepared to have a real discussion where people have opinions different from yours.


I have no problem with differing opinions...I feel an obligation to point out inconsistencies, or contradictions in the posts of those who are part of the discussion. i do not do this to shame the person, I raise the issue to allow the poster the opportunity to clarify their position, or to throw it away. this helps us to learn and grow.

When I start a thread i generally offer my feelings on the subject, and I prepare to defend my position. my defense will be respectful. If someone demonstrates a superior position, i will concede. So once again, If you hold a position in opposition to the one I offer, give enough of yourself to the position to prove your point.



Kai
quote:
Originally posted by Frenchy:
Edited to Add: Before someone jumps to any conclusions, I must say that I do not at all agree with the characterization of these women as promiscuous because they are in suggestive photos. That is not my angle, not something I agree with at all because I define promiscuity by the number of sexual partners someone has had and I don't think promiscuity is always a bad thing. But that does not make virtue's question any less valid or the histrionics any less irrelevant. Cool


That was my point all along... I wasn't characterizing these women as promiscuous.. It was the folks on the other damned side of the issue who kept characterizing them as promiscuous....
quote:
Originally posted by Kai:
You said this:

" I don't like being involved with promiscuous women.... As I am not myself promiscuous. I do not become involved with women who I would never consider marrying."

Further you said this:

"There's a (HUGE) difference between (anonymously) looking at a picture and (physically) sharing your body with another person."

Now, I am sure that you are of those who have viewed the photos of half naked women.

Finally you said this:

"In a fantasy, you haven't committed yourself...You simply entertain the possibility"

Here you are justifying fantasy...The subject is half naked women...Should we not understand that the fantasizing in question is fantasizing about half naked women?



I don't view these statements as contradictory:

Yes you should understand that the fantasizing in question is indeed about half naked women. We agree there.

But my point was that

1) The model is not herself necessarily promiscuous just because she's posing.

2) The mere fact that she is posing suggestively does NOT necessarily send the message that she is promiscuous.

3) The person enjoying the photographs is not necessarily perceiving the model as promiscuous nor deriving pleasure from the thought that the model may be promiscuous.

AGAIN: YOU'RE "DEBATING" A PHOTOGRAPHER

ALL I'm saying, folks, is that it depends: On the model, the pose, the viewer...

There are many variables in this situation. And not everyone responds the same way.

What's so damned controversial about this statement??
Obviously your ability to post in the Den has returned virtue Roll Eyes Amazing!

A repost:

This whole exchange is actually what we were asked not to do - you know that virtue and yet you continue. You said you were going to drop this issue and just avoid the Den. You've managed to do neither. Frown Not only did you hijack a thread in the Den, but now you've created a brand new thread in a different forum just to continue to push an agenda you said you were going to leave alone. And adding insult (literally) to injury, you cannot refrain from taking potshots, implying lack of moral fiber & character in those who disagree with your viewpoint.

Edit: Frenchy, you've decided to jump into the fray as well. Rational answers were given. They just did not match the responses you wanted us to give. Admiring physical beauty is not disconnected from appreciating character and other qualities in women. The constant attempts to insult & shame people into following your path is disappointing.

This is a slippery slope - one day your thoughts & posts may be deemed inappropriate by a member here. If that day comes, will you willingly submit your contributions here (regardless of whether you think they are good, bad, or neutral) for censorship?
quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:
Obviously your ability to post in the Den has returned virtue Roll Eyes Amazing!

A repost:

This whole exchange is actually what we were asked not to do - you know that virtue and yet you continue. You said you were going to drop this issue and just avoid the Den. You've managed to do neither. Frown Not only did you hijack a thread in the Den, but now you've created a brand new thread in a different forum just to continue to push an agenda you said you were going to leave alone. And adding insult (literally) to injury, you cannot refrain from taking potshots, implying lack of moral fiber & character in those who disagree with your viewpoint.

Edit: Frenchy, you've decided to jump into the fray as well. Rational answers were given. They just did not match the responses you wanted us to give. Admiring physical beauty is not disconnected from appreciating character and other qualities in women. The constant attempts to insult & shame people into following your path is disappointing.

This is a slippery slope - one day your thoughts & posts may be deemed inappropriate by a member here. If that day comes, will you willingly submit your contributions here (regardless of whether you think they are good, bad, or neutral) for censorship?
Okay.....
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
I don't view these statements as contradictory:

Yes you should understand that the fantasizing in question is indeed about half naked women. We agree there.

But my point was that

1) The model is not herself necessarily promiscuous just because she's posing.

2) The mere fact that she is posing suggestively does NOT necessarily send the message that she is promiscuous.

3) The person enjoying the photographs is not necessarily perceiving the model as promiscuous nor deriving pleasure from the thought that the model may be promiscuous.

AGAIN: YOU'RE "DEBATING" A PHOTOGRAPHER

ALL I'm saying, folks, is that it depends: On the model, the pose, the viewer...

There are many variables in this situation. And not everyone responds the same way.

What's so damned controversial about this statement??

Nothing. I agree with it. The disconnect seems to be with how one defines promiscuity.
quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:
Edit: Frenchy, you've decided to jump into the fray as well. Rational answers were given. They just did not match the responses you wanted us to give. Admiring physical beauty is not disconnected from appreciating character and other qualities in women. The constant attempts to insult & shame people into following your path is disappointing.


Where the hell is that coming from and where do you get off scolding me?!?! Who is attempting to insult and shame people into following a particular path besides YOU? It's been said *numerous* times that no one gives a shit if you all want to whack off to a monkey with a banana in its ass, but don't get all stupid when someone asks you what on Earth you find attractive and erotic about those pictures. This is NOT about censorship. If you don't want to answer the questions posed, don't. But stop trying to force people to stop asking them when it's so fucking obvious that the situation BEGS these questions. You have men getting all self-righteous about not dating promiscuous women because it's some kind of terrible thing that doesn't mesh with their oh-so-high morality, but they have no problem with looking at nudity frequently. And nobody is supposed to address that?!?!? Is this fucking bizzarro world?!?! It's a valid question that virtue raised!!

Furthermore, I wasn't even IN this damn thread until 2 seconds ago, so how the hell does this have anything to do with "answers being given that *I* didn't want people to give??" Hmph!! nono My viewpoint is not virtue's.
quote:
Originally posted by Frenchy:
It's a valid question that virtue raised!!

Furthermore, I wasn't even IN this damn thread until 2 seconds ago, so how the hell does this have anything to do with "answers being given that *I* didn't want people to give??" Hmph!! nono My viewpoint is not virtue's.


That's precisely the point... you haven't been following the thread.... Virtue didn't merely "ask a question" ... Virtue was pursuing a moral agenda... She wasn't interested in any answer that deviated from the one she already had in her mind... hence it wasn't really an honest question...
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
That's precisely the point... you haven't been following the thread.... Virtue didn't merely "ask a question" ... Virtue was pursuing a moral agenda... She wasn't interested in any answer that deviated from the one she already had in her mind... hence it wasn't really an honest question...


No, no, I read the thread, I just wasn't participating in it. virtue was not pushing a moral agenda, *she was making a point that touched on morality*. Not unlike anyone else in any thread you open who is passionately arguing their point of view. She does not ask questions she does not genuinely want the answer to. I've never known her to do that. And that is why it was clear to me (and to some other people who aren't as emotionally attached to this issue) what she was saying. Take it at face value.
In particular, this

You're kidding right? You think I'm going to believe that men don't look at those pictures because it excites them? Okay...... As far as being loose..... I don't think men who view photos such as this "think" much of anything...... However.... A woman with a thong on posing for God knows how many male strangers doing a close up of her rear simulating sexual movements or positions would be sending the message of sexual readiness and openness to hundreds (thousands?) of men..... would be considered in even today's time as loose........

one does not have to be rigid or religious to see that....


Peace,
Virtue


Again, she's entitled to her point of view but I think she begins to reveal here that she's not really interested in what we think... Cool... i don't care
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
And didn't some feminist on this board who shall remain unnamed recently admit that she likes to watch porn?

Are there different rules for you?

What does that have to do with anything?!?!?!!?!? AND WHY DON'T PEOPLE READ??!?!?!?!?!!?!?

*I* am NOT against porn or suggestive material or women fucking any and everything they come across. *My* problem with RadioRaheem's threads, as I said when I addressed RadioRaheem and as I said in EACH of the 4 conversations we've had about this since that time, is that I do not think there needs to be *so much* material on *a site like this*.

*This thread here* is NOT about my dislikes. That is NOT the subject.
Is this a joke?

*YOU* were the one who starting on with your Font 98 question: "And didn't some feminist on this board who shall remain unnamed recently admit that she likes to watch porn? Are there different rules for you?"

I am responding (for the umpteenth time) to the mischaracterization of what my view point is and the shit being slung in my direction. Unbelievable!
quote:
Originally posted by Frenchy:
Is this a joke?

*YOU* were the one who starting on with your Font 98 question: "And didn't some feminist on this board who shall remain unnamed recently admit that she likes to watch porn? Are there different rules for you?"

I am responding (for the umpteenth time) to the mischaracterization of what my view point is and the shit being slung in my direction. Unbelievable!


You're just in a mood to complain tonight right?

Frenchy, I don't even know what I'm arguing with you about.... For real... I DO NOT KNOW lol bang laugh
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
There are far to many assumptions being thrown around here.

First of all, a provacatively dressed woman does not equal a promiscuous woman.

Secondly, a man appreciating a provocatively dressed woman does not equal any kind of desire to have sex with said woman, or "loose" women in general.


I've already made these points:

quote:

1) The model is not herself necessarily promiscuous just because she's posing.

2) The mere fact that she is posing suggestively does NOT necessarily send the message that she is promiscuous.

3) The person enjoying the photographs is not necessarily perceiving the model as promiscuous nor deriving pleasure from the thought that the model may be promiscuous.

AGAIN: YOU'RE "DEBATING" A PHOTOGRAPHER

ALL I'm saying, folks, is that it depends: On the model, the pose, the viewer...

There are many variables in this situation. And not everyone responds the same way.

What's so damned controversial about this statement??


Some people really don't seem interested in listening...

Note: the use of the words "not necessarily" throughout.
Peace....


the initial question raised by Virtue was legitimate.

Let's not be dishonest. We are not limiting the fantasizing to women who pose in tasteful photographs. We are including within the fantasizing women who are obviously professional strippers. The latest "gift" On the den displays women who are clearly demonstrating sexually provocative movements.

if you all want to split hairs and say that women who pose in Hustler magazine, or Penthouse, are not sending a message of promiscuity then fine....But we all know better.

Sexual freedom, liberation, or whatever is the message you receive from a women who poses in a provocative manner in a sexually enticing magazine, or on the net.

The bottom line is would you still enjoy the photos if you discovered that the beautiful woman you were fantasizing about was in fact a sexually liberated woman who enjoys frequent one night stands?

And uh...I am just now seeing the exchange between honest Brother and virtue at the "sista spot"....I fail to understand how men can bring themselves to fight a woman like that.

has it come to this?


Kai
quote:
Originally posted by Kai:
Peace....


the initial question raised by Virtue was legitimate.


Yes...it was

quote:

Let's not be dishonest. We are not limiting the fantasizing to women who pose in tasteful photographs. We are including within the fantasizing women who are obviously professional strippers. The latest "gift" On the den displays women who are clearly demonstrating sexually provocative movements.

if you all want to split hairs and say that women who pose in Hustler magazine, or Penthouse, are not sending a message of promiscuity then fine....But we all know better.


What part of

quote:

AGAIN: YOU'RE "DEBATING" A PHOTOGRAPHER

ALL I'm saying, folks, is that it depends: On the model, the pose, the viewer...


DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?????


quote:

Sexual freedom, liberation or whatever is the message you receive from a women who poses in a provocative manner in a sexually enticing magazine, or on the net.


I disagree... Again, I'm thinking of a great many situations... the so-called artistic nude for example: Repeat: I'm a photographer

Once more: It depends

quote:

And uh...I am just now seeing the exchange between honest Brother and virtue at the "sista spot"....I fail to understand how men can bring themselves to fight a woman like that.

has it come to this?


She hasn't earned any special treatment from me... I'll treat her as I would anyone else... especially if she's going to be as pigheaded as you are.... In fact, she got off sorta light.
quote:
There are far to many assumptions being thrown around here.

First of all, a provacatively dressed woman does not equal a promiscuous woman.

Secondly, a man appreciating a provocatively dressed woman does not equal any kind of desire to have sex with said woman, or "loose" women in general.


Man...You can say that about any photograph...

A picture of a white man wearing a white conelike hood with a big red cross on it, holding a knoose and pointing at a black man, could actually be something other than a photogrpah of the Klan....perhaps we are just looking at it in the wrong way...

there are tasteful pictures of women who are posing in a sexy manner, and then there is stuff hugging the line of porn. Some of the photos posted on this board have been the stuff which borders on porn..Some photos were tasteful...I am sure that you guys who do not like promiscuous women closed your eyes when the raunchy stuff appeared....

Kai
quote:
Originally posted by Kai:
quote:
There are far to many assumptions being thrown around here.

First of all, a provacatively dressed woman does not equal a promiscuous woman.

Secondly, a man appreciating a provocatively dressed woman does not equal any kind of desire to have sex with said woman, or "loose" women in general.


Man...You can say that about any photograph...

A picture of a white man wearing a white conelike hood with a big red cross on it, holding a knoose and pointing at a black man, could actually be something other than a photogrpah of the Klan....perhaps we are just looking at it in the wrong way...

there are tasteful pictures of women who are posing in a sexy manner, and then there is stuff hugging the line of porn. Some of the photos posted on this board have been the stuff which borders on porn..Some photos were tasteful...I am sure that you guys who do not like promiscuous women closed your eyes when the raunchy stuff appeared....

Kai



ENGLISH: Phrases like "It depends" or "not necessarily" signal that the statement is context dependent.... Sometimes true... Other times not

Stop being so obnoxious..
quote:
Originally posted by Kai:
Let's not be dishonest. We are not limiting the fantasizing to women who pose in tasteful photographs. We are including within the fantasizing women who are obviously professional strippers.

Okay, let's not be dishonest. We are also not limiting the fantasizing to professional strippers. We are including women who pose in tasteful photographs.

quote:
The latest "gift" On the den displays women who are clearly demonstrating sexually provocative movements.

Once again, provocative does not equal promiscuous. Why are these shades of gray so difficult to understand?

quote:
if you all want to split hairs and say that women who pose in Hustler magazine, or Penthouse, are not sending a message of promiscuity then fine....But we all know better.

Roll Eyes

quote:
Sexual freedom, liberation, or whatever is the message you receive from a women who poses in a provocative manner in a sexually enticing magazine, or on the net.

Yes...

Men are visually stimulated creatures, and the idea that a woman is open to sex is arousing. But that has to do with the fantasy of her being open to sex with us. The idea of her being open to everyone is not very appealing. But, it's my fantasy, so I can imagine her to be any way I want.

quote:
The bottom line is would you still enjoy the photos if you discovered that the beautiful woman you were fantasizing about was in fact a sexually liberated woman who enjoys frequent one night stands?

See above.
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
First of all, a provacatively dressed woman does not equal a promiscuous woman.

Secondly, a man appreciating a provocatively dressed woman does not equal any kind of desire to have sex with said woman, or "loose" women in general.



What he's saying here is that a woman dressed provocatively isn't necessarily perceived as "promiscuous" .... nor is she necessarily promiscuous in actuality.

Another way of saying: It depends... Roll Eyes
Peace...


quote:
She hasn't earned any special treatment from me... I'll treat her as I would anyone else... especially if she's going to be as pigheaded as you are.... In fact, she got off sorta light


Special treatment? I wasn't expecting that...I was expecting you to treat her like she was a woman that you respect.

I think that the civilized man would understand that there is a proper way to handle a woman. Your anger will be no excuse for assaulting a woman that you have praised everyday before now.

We boast and brag about how educated we are and yet we behave like savages when it comes to our women.

i understand why the sisters here would be insulted to see the men on this board lusting after whores while singing the praises of thinking women.

HonestBrother, your monday morning apologies will ring hollow when those who know you begin to realize that your abuses are habits...

Kai
quote:
Originally posted by Kai:
Peace...


quote:
She hasn't earned any special treatment from me... I'll treat her as I would anyone else... especially if she's going to be as pigheaded as you are.... In fact, she got off sorta light


Special treatment? I wasn't expecting that...I was expecting you to treat her like she was a woman that you respect.

I think that the civilized man would understand that there is a proper way to handle a woman. Your anger will be no excuse for assaulting a woman that you have praised everyday before now.

We boast and brag about how educated we are and yet we behave like savages when it comes to our women.

i understand why the sisters here would be insulted to see the men on this board lusting after whores while singing the praises of thinking women.

HonestBrother, your monday morning apologies will ring hollow when those who know you begin to realize that your abuses are habits...

Kai



Man F*ck you, you lieing DOG

She was not "assaulted" and No actually I have NOT praised her every day.
Peace...

Honest Viking wrote:

quote:
Okay, let's not be dishonest. We are also not limiting the fantasizing to professional strippers. We are including women who pose in tasteful photographs.


Any fantasizing of promiscuous women means that you have a taste or desire for the object in the fantasy...hence you like..



Black brother wrote:
quote:
Once again, provocative does not equal promiscuous. Why are these shades of gray so difficult to understand


it is not difficult to understand. the idea here is not whetehr all nude photos of women mena a promiscuous woman, but rather that sometimes these photos are photos of loose woman, and on the occasions when the woman are notoriously loose...You still fantasize about her while claiming to not like her....



Kai
quote:
Originally posted by Kai:
Peace...

Honest Viking wrote:

quote:
Okay, let's not be dishonest. We are also not limiting the fantasizing to professional strippers. We are including women who pose in tasteful photographs.


Any fantasizing of promiscuous women means that you have a taste or desire for the object in the fantasy...hence you like..



Black brother wrote:
quote:
Once again, provocative does not equal promiscuous. Why are these shades of gray so difficult to understand


it is not difficult to understand. the idea here is not whetehr all nude photos of women mena a promiscuous woman, but rather that sometimes these photos are photos of loose woman, and on the occasions when the woman are notoriously loose...You still fantasize about her while claiming to not like her....



Kai

Kai, you are a complete waste of energy. I'm done.
Peace....

Well, HonestBrother, to tell you the truth, on many occasions you have entertained those who have viewed you as nothing more than a joke.

Your lack of respect for me is only the result of the fact that I am not like those of your ilk. I am not a happy go lucky dud. yeah dud.


We have already done this...Round two would be much worse than round one...But if this is what you wish for...then proceed.



Kai
quote:
Originally posted by Kai:
Peace....

Well, HonestBrother, to tell you the truth, on many occasions you have entertained those who have viewed you as nothing more than a joke.


Names please?, SARACEN DOG?

quote:

Your lack of respect for me is only the result of the fact that I am not like those of your ilk. I am not a happy go lucky dud. yeah dud.


Those of my ilk? Intelligent? Educated? Geniuses? Big Grin

Bring it on, Bitch.
Peace...

quote:
Names please?, SARACEN DOG?


lol

quote:
Those of my ilk? Intelligent? Educated? Geniuses?


No... I was actually thinking more along the lines of depressed janitors with a phd.

quote:
Bring it on, Bitch.


Soon the font will grow....And then I will regret that I ever challenged the king of all weirdos.


The internet stalker, stalker..


Kai
quote:
Originally posted by Kai:
No... I was actually thinking more along the lines of depressed janitors with a phd.

quote:
Bring it on, Bitch.


Soon the font will grow....And then I will regret that I ever challenged the king of all weirdos.


The internet stalker, stalker..


Kai



I'm a depressed janitor with a Ph.D. that an internet loser named Kai seems strangely jealous of...

Maybe I have some things that you want?

like true intellect, true independence, a Ph.D.?, some actual game to back up my talk?, ...

I wonder...
Peace....

Okay seriously, I gotta ask...what do you think that you have that I want?

You repeated this over and over the last time that i beat you like a bowl of eggs....

So far you have admitted that you are lonely, depressed, lack a sex life, have no clue as it relates to how to treat a woman, have a job developing white kids, and used to be in love with a woman that you decided to attack in front of the people you claim to respect....

Honestbrother, what is there to be jealous of? i am actually curious....


Kai
quote:
Originally posted by Kai:
Peace....

Okay seriously, I gotta ask...what do you think that you have that I want?

You repeated this over and over the last time that i beat you like a bowl of eggs....

So far you have admitted that you are lonely, depressed, lack a sex life, have no clue as it relates to how to treat a woman, have a job developing white kids, and used to be in love with a woman that you decided to attack in front of the people you claim to respect....

Honestbrother, what is there to be jealous of? i am actually curious....


Kai


DAMNED, Kai... I'm a stalker? You've been reading ALL my shit

Now THAT'S TRUE STALKER QUALITY FOR YA

Maybe it's really ME that you want

Is that it?

You lust after men?...

PS:

Maybe I have some things that you want?

like true intellect, TALENT?, true independence, a Ph.D.?, a job?, a future?, some actual game to back up my talk?, MY ASS?...

I wonder... My ass? Right?
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
MUTHAFUCKA, you remind me of the negroes who made fun of me because I read growing up.... Weirdo? Me? .... Only to CONTROL FREAK NIGGERS LIKE YOURSELF who need to be on top of the rest of us to make yourselves feel like men....


You and all your pathetic kind need to die out among us before we can ever progress as a people
quote:
Originally posted by donna529:
WELL, I HATE TO STEP IN THIS ENRICHED CONVERSATION OF MEANESS, BUT TO BE HONEST

HONEST BROTHER--YOU HAVE BEEN AN AA FAMILY MEMBER FOR A LONG TIME, AND KAI--YOU ARE THE NEW KID ON THE BLOCK. TAKE THE HINT KAI, AND STEP OFF OF HONEST BROTHER. WE HAVE HIS BACK, BECAUSE WE KNOW HIM. WHO HAS YOURS?


kiss

You just made a friend for life...
Peace....

quote:
DAMNED, Kai... I'm a stalker? You've been reading ALL my shit

Now THAT'S TRUE STALKER QUALITY FOR YA

Maybe it's really ME that you want

Is that it?

You lust after men?...


You have serious issues dude....

quote:
Maybe I have some things that you want?

like true intellect, TALENT?, true independence, a Ph.D.?, a job?, a future?, some actual game to back up my talk?, MY ASS?...

I wonder... My ass? Right?


Wow....

Do you really think that i would contiue talking to you when you obviously want to turn this into something relating to homosexuality?

What the Hell is wrong with you????

You actually want to have sex with AA.org....That is some sick stuff....

You are scary....still very dweebish....but scary....

beat it loser....

As far as the good job you have...Son, I make jobs...


Now go watch a lap dance while we all laugh at you.


And uh...what gives with the flasher outfit???

Go away....Get...Get!!!

damn strays...



Kai
Peace....


quote:
HONEST BROTHER--YOU HAVE BEEN AN AA FAMILY MEMBER FOR A LONG TIME, AND KAI--YOU ARE THE NEW KID ON THE BLOCK. TAKE THE HINT KAI, AND STEP OFF OF HONEST BROTHER. WE HAVE HIS BACK, BECAUSE WE KNOW HIM. WHO HAS YOURS?


White folk say the same things to each other when one of the Negroes step out of line...it is not an issue of who is right...But who is part of the good ole boy network.

Donna, go back into the thread and see who started this exchange..And then be bold enough to stand with the person who is right..Not just part of the crowd...Will Ya???

Please accept my thanks in advance.



Kai
Peace...


quote:
Neither one of you has an ounce of decorum. Everyone can tell what the hell you two are hinting at and it's very upsetting that the two of you persist in dragging *other people's business* into your arguments over and over again


Once again...When I say nothing to the attacks hurled by this man you all have nothing to say...But as soon as I begin to return in kind the treatment he initiates, I see people here objecting...get your dog, and i won't beat him....But if you watch your stray animal walk up to bite me and say nothing...what do you expect?

the man has issues...if he belongs to you all...Put a fence around him...Okay?


Kai
quote:
Originally posted by Kai:
quote:
DAMNED, Kai... I'm a stalker? You've been reading ALL my shit

Now THAT'S TRUE STALKER QUALITY FOR YA


You have serious issues dude....


Why have you been reading ALL my stuff? Can't answer can you? Mr. Saracen Stalker...



quote:


Wow....

Do you really think that i would contiue talking to you when you obviously want to turn this into something relating to homosexuality?


Translate: He's looking for a way to save face and back his disgraceful ass out of this "conversation"...

quote:

Now go watch a lap dance while we all laugh at you.


WE? I don't see anybody claiming to have your back.... You have multiple personality disorder? That might explain a lot.

For the record, I don't go to strip joints...

I'll give you an easy exit: I'M GOING TO BED FOR REAL NOW. I have a job. I need sleep.

PS: donna529, eyes
quote:
Originally posted by Frenchy:
Neither one of you has an ounce of decorum. Everyone can tell what the hell you two are hinting at and it's very upsetting that the two of you persist in dragging *other people's business* into your arguments over and over again. td6


Frenchy, whatever...

He keeeps bringing other people's business into this and puts me in the place of having to defend myself.

I'm done with this.
Peace...

It is late....

sleep tight...hopefully within a straightjacket.

leave the couples at the mall alone..When you feel compelled to flash...Just say No...


And if you happen to see Sanaa Lathan...Please do not kidnap her..She deserves to be alive, and in one piece..and not stuffed into the head of a grizzly bear, or some sick sh!t like that.



Kai
quote:
Originally posted by Kai:
Once again...When I say nothing to the attacks hurled by this man you all have nothing to say...But as soon as I begin to return in kind the treatment he initiates, I see people here objecting...get your dog, and i won't beat him....But if you watch your stray animal walk up to bite me and say nothing...what do you expect?

the man has issues...if he belongs to you all...Put a fence around him...Okay?


Kai


Neither one of you is my responsibility. Have your disagreements. But it's piss poor behavior to drag other people's offline activities and comments onto the board. It does not bolster your argument to continually ask HB on the board about this woman or bring up the contents of what are clearly private conversations. It's rude and wildly inappropriate.
peace...

quote:
Neither one of you is my responsibility. Have your disagreements. But it's piss poor behavior to drag other people's offline activities and comments onto the board. It does not bolster your argument to continually ask HB on the board about this woman or bring up the contents of what are clearly private conversations. It's rude and wildly inappropriate.


I have not asked him about anything more than what he has made obvious on the board.

It does not require the contents of anything private to see what he is about.

Are you saying that you had no clue in regards to his feelings before i brought it up? Was it a mystery?

I simply brought it to the light because it has been the basis of his attacks against me since I have come to this forum.

And for god's sake it should have come to the light anyway since he has clearly demonstrated that he is not stable enough mentally to have what he wanted.



Justice is Blind...


Kai
Who is right - that's the million dollar question. Unfortunately, the answer is not as cut and dry as you present it to be Kai. Personally, I think you and HB would do well not saying anything to one another, ever again (he might need to add virtue to that list too)! Big Grin Unfortunately, part of the forum culture is drama & flame wars, even at AA.org.

IMO, virtue does not get a pass for her part in this whole mess. Lately, her strategy has been to hurl veiled attacks & then claim her words have been twisted. This immediately wrecks any chance for prolonged calm, rational discussion. Between this thread and the one in A Sista's Spot, her intentions became clear: To label the picture threads here as inappropriate and to question the morality/decency/intelligence of anyone who disagrees with her assessment (phrased just vaguely enough to create the illusion of possible misinterpretation). Though Frenchy & I don't see eye to eye on a few things, I've always respected her honest, direct approach. Go back and read the threads again - v has taken digs left & right. Everyone has a breaking point and it's unfair to cite gender as a reason for accepting excessive abusive remarks.

Kai, I don't respond to you the way I do because you're new. I (and others) have issue with your approach. I'm not asking you to change anything, but you've tried your current tract multiple times and have gotten the same result. If you're cool with the way things are so be it.

The association being made between the pictures & promiscuity is tenuous at best. I don't even think this discussion is about pictures anymore. It's about control. Control to limit the number of picture threads. Control to recognize that every decision won't go your way (and not throw a tantrum about it). Control to avoid people & threads that you do not approve of. Control to respect a difference of opinion without publicly trashing someone. Control not to force everyone to see/do things your way.

I suspect everybody might need to cool it for a minute. There was a guy named IRONHORSE that acted the way you gentlemen are - and he's no longer here...
Last edited {1}
Ddouble .... you attack me often...... for the same reason.....

not agreeing with you......


my statements always have to have some "veiled" attempt at something.....

nope....

sorry....

you don't know me that well....

my questions are simply that.......

an honest question.......

I jump out of threads to ask questions, because some people, like you for instance, are aggressive with their responses...... and I am not....... so the only way to get a question answered without taking a beating is to preface the statement with I'm leaving......

you don't know me....

but I don't like to argue....

I rarely do.....

it is obvious that the men here are VERY sensitive about seeing women half naked do lap dances and posing provocatively....... apparently if I think that this behavior is untoward.... THEN I HAVE AN AGENDA....

this is simply not true...

my position is not yours...... and the truth is..... that rather than engage me from my standpoint.... you brow beat the issue and make claims on MY intentions....

you never address the point you say you think I make.... you're upset that my position is "moral"...... and because it is so..... I somehow am trying to what? convert AA?

No.....

let me state my intentions for you.......

I truly don't understand how men can view half naked women gyrating sexually before thousands of men.... with the intent to stimulate them sexually and then say "these women are absolutely NOT sending a message of promiscuity"!

Now for the record..... I don't try to put words into people's mouths..... what I DO is COMMUNICATE..... and what that means is when you make a statement.... like every other human being ON THE PLANET.....I make an interpretation of what I heard..... just like you TRY to interpret my statements..... and then afterwards what happens is the person lets you know whether or not that is his/her position.....

But some of you do not do this..... you simply say I have an agenda.... I'm putting words in your mouth..... this is not "force" its an interpretation...

guess what?

I have a right to it.....

By the way I was frustrated when speaking to HB and had had enough of arguing over the issue all day.....

But if anyone knows me here they know that I usually treat EVERYONE with kindness..... and I NEVER attack..... my nerves were spent....

Frenchy and I don't see eye to eye on many issues..... but.... she KNOWS me..... and my persona..... I don't just respect her because her position is my own.... We have respect for one another because we value being respectful..... and its funny, that's all it takes for us to continue dialog......

so she was simply explaining things to others because she knows me..... not defending my position but MY RIGHT TO HAVE ONE.

I've been here for a year.....

I've been countered on my opinions by Nmaginate (harshly), Melesi, Rowe and once I've even ticked off MBM..... and I tick off AudioGuy regularly (smile Razz)..... but I have never taken any of it personally or felt like I was attacked for simply THINKING differently.....

With you and HB.... I do......

I feell like taking a moral stance is the issue with you..... not the moral value....

and what's interesting is I never really made a moral issue.... you all labeled it that......

I pointed out what I thought was an inconsistency.....

As far as KAI......

He is the new guy here..... but.... I know him..... and he is a very good guy..... he has never disrespected me and has always treated me kindly........ and in truth has never attacked anyone else on this board....... but.... I know he is a man first, a poster on a message board last (if that)...... and what he considers a good woman being attacked is a trigger with him..... I am grateful for his defense......

I do expect special treatment.... I expect EVERY WOMAN HERE to expect special treatment.... because its the value system with which I was raised...... and the special treatment is not one where my viewpoints are agreed with..... but simply my consistent kindness given extra consideration....

I understand where I come from is antiquated.... we've been liberated from men treating us with kid gloves..... and I'm sure there are many men that are all too happy to FINALLY be able to slap us around and justify it with the fact that we're just like them and deserve nothing different than what they would give their friends......

But I have always treated everyone here kindly.....

My outburst wasn't even an attack on HB.... but the ridiculousness of his POSITION..... I never attacked him PERSONALLY...... personal attacks started with him..... go back and read the thread..... He took it to a personal level........

But ddouble.... according to you..... I need to fight more often...... sorry.... I'm not going to do it.... I will continue to avoid unnecessary tension when I can..... and when I slip up.... I will try to rein it in as soon as I can.....

That's why I said Okay to your earlier response.....

Because I knew that's all you wanted me to say....

You just wanted to be right.....

But you aren't.....

As far as staying away from the Den.... I prefaced my statement initially in another thread with "I know I said I wouldn't do this but..." apparently I don't have the right to change my mind..... but I've changed it before..... the topic stimulated me enough to want to respond.....

I decided to act on my own will and post rather than make you happy and be consistent.....

But being consistent is not a problem for me.....

I'm tired....

I've never been hurt so on this board....

until now....

I'll stay away.....ddouble....

I won't change my position because you don't like it or think I have an agenda.....

I actually have a right to disagree with you and my position does not mean you are forced to submit...

but to your other point of being consistent and staying out of the DEN your wish is granted....

Peace,
Virtue
Here is what INTERPRETATION is NOT: When the person or thing you're interpreting responds and says "No that's not what I meant" and you insist on your "interpretation" anyway, then you're implicitly accusing your source of being (for whatever reason): unreliable, corrupt, or dishonest.

You are in fact "forcing a reading" especially when you're a female making claims about what happens in a man's head. I don't think the statement below (which for me marks the turning point of all this) is an interpretation:

quote:
Originally posted by virtue:
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
You failed to undertand my point. I was not denying being excited. But, YOU, my dear, are the one looking at the picture making the judgement that the woman is "loose."

Who are you to tell us what goes on or doesn't go on in the mind of a fantasizing man??Especially when I, a man, am telling you something very specific about my experience. Who are you to over-rule my opinion on the matter?

My point was that the idea of the woman being "loose" plays no part in the enjoyment of the pictures. In fact, the idea may ruin that enjoyment.
"I don't assess the morals of a woman with her azz in my face.... I just enjoy it.... and Virtue.... you are very wrong for pointing out that she is loose..... I don't see her azz as loose.... I see her AZZ.... and enjoy the beauty of it.... YOU, my dear Virtue, have the nerve to JUDGE this lovely piece of AZZ grinding in my face as loose!....."

-My interpretation....

I get it....

so be it....

Peace,
Virtue




That's not interpretation. What you wrote approaches mockery. Of course you can believe she's loose. It is your right. I'm not debating that. I wasn't denying that you're free to do so. But I'm not obligated to share your perception. My only point was that your perception plays no part in my enjoyment. My "ridiculous position" is once again repeated below.

As for you believing "Kai is a very good guy" you can have him. The mere fact that you don't have a problem with him makes me have a problem with you - you must be seriously deluded and not quite as virtuous as your name would have us believe. As far as I can see, he's an ass, a bully, and a brazen liar when it suits him - and that's not because I disgree with him. That's not just me calling names. That's my honest opinion of him. I don't hold that opinion of any other person on this site. In fact, I don't hold that opinion of anyone else that I know ... I'm an academic... I disagree with plenty of people.... I don't accuse all of them of being liars. That's not a charge I make easily.

You want to be treated like a NOI woman? Then perhaps you should stick to NOI sites...

Anyway, whatever.... You want me off the board? I'm off.. I have a life ... and don't like dealing with fools...

Everyone else, it's been fun!
Last edited {1}
ONCE again, here's my ridiculous position. The statement only pertains to the perceptions of a man viewing photos of a suggestively posed woman.

quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
But my point was that

1) The model is not herself necessarily promiscuous just because she's posing.

2) The mere fact that she is posing suggestively does NOT necessarily send the message that she is promiscuous.

3) The person enjoying the photographs is not necessarily perceiving the model as promiscuous nor deriving pleasure from the thought that the model may be promiscuous.

AGAIN: YOU'RE "DEBATING" A PHOTOGRAPHER

ALL I'm saying, folks, is that it depends: On the model, the pose, the viewer...

There are many variables in this situation. And not everyone responds the same way.

What's so damned controversial about this statement??
quote:
Originally posted by virtue:
Ddouble .... you attack me often...... for the same reason.....

not agreeing with you......


my statements always have to have some "veiled" attempt at something.....

nope....

sorry....

you don't know me that well....

my questions are simply that.......

an honest question.......

I jump out of threads to ask questions, because some people, like you for instance, are aggressive with their responses...... and I am not....... so the only way to get a question answered without taking a beating is to preface the statement with I'm leaving......

you don't know me....

but I don't like to argue....

I rarely do.....

it is obvious that the men here are VERY sensitive about seeing women half naked do lap dances and posing provocatively....... apparently if I think that this behavior is untoward.... THEN I HAVE AN AGENDA....

this is simply not true...

my position is not yours...... and the truth is..... that rather than engage me from my standpoint.... you brow beat the issue and make claims on MY intentions....

you never address the point you say you think I make.... you're upset that my position is "moral"...... and because it is so..... I somehow am trying to what? convert AA?

No.....

let me state my intentions for you.......

I truly don't understand how men can view half naked women gyrating sexually before thousands of men.... with the intent to stimulate them sexually and then say "these women are absolutely NOT sending a message of promiscuity"!

Now for the record..... I don't try to put words into people's mouths..... what I DO is COMMUNICATE..... and what that means is when you make a statement.... like every other human being ON THE PLANET.....I make an interpretation of what I heard..... just like you TRY to interpret my statements..... and then afterwards what happens is the person lets you know whether or not that is his/her position.....

But some of you do not do this..... you simply say I have an agenda.... I'm putting words in your mouth..... this is not "force" its an interpretation...

guess what?

I have a right to it.....

By the way I was frustrated when speaking to HB and had had enough of arguing over the issue all day.....

But if anyone knows me here they know that I usually treat EVERYONE with kindness..... and I NEVER attack..... my nerves were spent....

Frenchy and I don't see eye to eye on many issues..... but.... she KNOWS me..... and my persona..... I don't just respect her because her position is my own.... We have respect for one another because we value being respectful..... and its funny, that's all it takes for us to continue dialog......

so she was simply explaining things to others because she knows me..... not defending my position but MY RIGHT TO HAVE ONE.

I've been here for a year.....

I've been countered on my opinions by Nmaginate (harshly), Melesi, Rowe and once I've even ticked off MBM..... and I tick off AudioGuy regularly (smile Razz)..... but I have never taken any of it personally or felt like I was attacked for simply THINKING differently.....

With you and HB.... I do......

I feell like taking a moral stance is the issue with you..... not the moral value....

and what's interesting is I never really made a moral issue.... you all labeled it that......

I pointed out what I thought was an inconsistency.....

As far as KAI......

He is the new guy here..... but.... I know him..... and he is a very good guy..... he has never disrespected me and has always treated me kindly........ and in truth has never attacked anyone else on this board....... but.... I know he is a man first, a poster on a message board last (if that)...... and what he considers a good woman being attacked is a trigger with him..... I am grateful for his defense......

I do expect special treatment.... I expect EVERY WOMAN HERE to expect special treatment.... because its the value system with which I was raised...... and the special treatment is not one where my viewpoints are agreed with..... but simply my consistent kindness given extra consideration....

I understand where I come from is antiquated.... we've been liberated from men treating us with kid gloves..... and I'm sure there are many men that are all too happy to FINALLY be able to slap us around and justify it with the fact that we're just like them and deserve nothing different than what they would give their friends......

But I have always treated everyone here kindly.....

My outburst wasn't even an attack on HB.... but the ridiculousness of his POSITION..... I never attacked him PERSONALLY...... personal attacks started with him..... go back and read the thread..... He took it to a personal level........

But ddouble.... according to you..... I need to fight more often...... sorry.... I'm not going to do it.... I will continue to avoid unnecessary tension when I can..... and when I slip up.... I will try to rein it in as soon as I can.....

That's why I said Okay to your earlier response.....

Because I knew that's all you wanted me to say....

You just wanted to be right.....

But you aren't.....

As far as staying away from the Den.... I prefaced my statement initially in another thread with "I know I said I wouldn't do this but..." apparently I don't have the right to change my mind..... but I've changed it before..... the topic stimulated me enough to want to respond.....

I decided to act on my own will and post rather than make you happy and be consistent.....

But being consistent is not a problem for me.....

I'm tired....

I've never been hurt so on this board....

until now....

I'll stay away.....ddouble....

I won't change my position because you don't like it or think I have an agenda.....

I actually have a right to disagree with you and my position does not mean you are forced to submit...

but to your other point of being consistent and staying out of the DEN your wish is granted....

Peace,
Virtue


Wow! Don't know where to start. I always try to be direct in my dealings with anyone. If that is perceived as aggressive, I make no apologies for that. In fact, I think I go easy on people compared to other posters here - I usually try to remove deliberate venom from my posts. If you say you are not mincing words, OK. I won't accuse you of that again. But when a poster with an opposing viewpoint tells you what they mean, accept that as well.

I do think you attempt to use your gender as an unfair advantage. If you want special treatment, you have to give it as well. I'm sure your value system teaches you not to address men in the manner you have - but you've had no problem disregarding that. My responses to you changed when you no longer respected an opposing opinion without questioning a person's decency & morals.

In short, if you can't take it, don't dish it out...

This has never been about being right, that's the whole point. Right & what is moral is relative. Each person has their personal view of what's acceptable. I champion your right to present your vision of morality, but multiple posters (male & female) have told you that your issue is not as important to them. Not seeking the mass approval you were looking for (IMO), you started to lash out, again questioning people's decency. When I grow tired of your moral grandstanding (and arguing with you about it), you know what I will do? I won't moan & complain (or stomp out of a forum, vowing never to return again only to violate my word a day later; keeping your word is a virtue also!), hoping to have your threads & viewpoint tailored to suit my preference. I'll just avoid responding to your posts & stay out of any personally offensive threads you start. I won't make a public demonstration of it either. In fact, it will occur so quietly, you may not even notice my absence.

Kai is a big boy - I bear no malice toward him, but his hands are not clean either. For two people that profess to be enlightened & on the moral high ground, the two of you have spent a lot of time lately engaging in behavior very inconsistent to that tract.

If you stop frequenting this forum, don't try to pin that decision on me. I have the right to defend a position and any character attacks that may be launched against me. I respect your position & you don't have to submit - All I've asked you to do is respect mine & acknowledge that I don't have to submit either.

Be consistent before you question my consistency...
Last edited {1}
Peace...

"Promiscuous women should be praised

Randy Woock

There is a plethora of pejorative words used to derogatorily refer to
a sexually uninhibited woman. Why are there so many negative
synonyms for a woman whose sexual mores aren't in line with the
Judeo-Christian ideal? Why do we only use pejorative terms to
describe a woman who isn't a fervent practitioner of monogamy?
Why no complimentary terms?

I propose we stop reviling the sexually promiscuous woman and
venerate her instead. Why? Well, because promiscuous women
make the world a happier place, that's why.

Tell me who brings more joy to more people: a girl in a
monogamous relationship who would never dream of sleeping with
someone that she didn't "love" or a woman who hops in bed with
any person she finds sexually stimulating?

The latter, of course. So "mad props" to all you women out there
secure enough in yourselves that you don't need to bother with
the "sex for security" trade-off so evident in most relationships.

It's understandable why lots of more sexually repressed women
may dislike their more promiscuous sisters. I mean, talk about
having one hell of an advantage in a popularity contest. While sex
may not be the only thing on a guy's mind, it does go a long way
towards making us more kindly disposed toward someone.

And speaking of guys, it's time we males stopped being so
sickeningly hypocritical about the whole "slut" issue. Any and all
male revulsion towards promiscuous women comes from nothing
more than a pathetic attack of religious sexual guilt.

This guilt is coming from our success in fulfilling our "basic
biological imperative" (a.k.a. fornication) with a willing and eager
associate (this going against typical religious tradition, which
forbids sexual knowledge of a woman before she's made your
property -- oops, I mean partner -- in marriage).

Having failed to be the perfect sexual robot as decreed by the laws
of the tribe, the male transfers the guilt he feels into anger towards
the woman gracious enough to copulate with him. "She's just a
slut," a man will say of a woman after he's enjoyed her company
for precisely that reason.

The sexual double standard of male versus female promiscuity is
too bloody apparent to even bother dealing with. We'll just
acknowledge its existence with a sad shake of the head and
continue on our way.

So let's cut the crap, people, and stop reviling those who don't
suffer from the same sexual hang-ups as the rest of us. Folks who
repress their sexuality in the confining container of monogamy like
to consider themselves "good," while regarding those not so stifled
by the abuse that annotates our society's sexual programming as
"immoral." They do this in the same manner as the slaves who were
too cowardly to revolt with Spartacus thought of themselves as
"moral" while damning those struggling for their freedom as being bad"


What is this world coming to?


Kai
Couldn't read through 7 pages of #%^&...
So forgive me if this has already been said...

In the defense of Men who will not marry promiscuous women, or women with past promiscuous activity.

Everything you do in elementary, junior high, highschool, affects the decision of the most prestigous school who would select you. It lets them know what type of student you will be, and if your qualifications are high enough to keep you at pace.

So if you were a lazy bum k-12, then don't be suprised if Yale or Princeton don't select you.
---------------------
This applies to the 'wifey' selection process...
quote:
Originally posted by virtue:
... and I tick off AudioGuy regularly (smile Razz)..... but I have never taken any of it personally or felt like I was attacked for simply THINKING differently...
You don't tick me off... You merely drive me INSANE!!! Wink lol

Kai: Just because someone attacks you, does not mean that you have to respond in kind... or respond by using personal observations gleened from other threads...

HB: Same as above...

Just a reminder... this is an internet discussion board, full of some facts and a whole lotta opinions... try not to take it so seriously... just back away, take a breath and let it go!!!

Repeat after me: RELAX, RELATE & RELEASE...

"Can't we all just get along??

-Rodney King
(after gettin' his ass beat - if he can do it so can we...)
Peace...

quote:
Kai: Just because someone attacks you, does not mean that you have to respond in kind... or respond by using personal observations gleened from other threads...



I will not disagree with this. AudioGuy, I just need to know that if I do not defend myself on this forum when attacked, someone will speak out, and respond with corrective action.

I welcome those who wish to attack my views... Personal attacks are out of bounds. When someone aims to destroy my reputation (even if it is an online persona) I am naturally inclined to defend myself. I will resist this urge if I know that the situation will be handled by those selected to deal with such things.

I like this place...I think that it is rather hip...I am great at defending myself online, and even better in real time (thanks to Poison hand Kenpo)...I really don't have a big problem with handling these attacks without help, but in the process I don't want to disrupt a place that seems to be positive.

There is always room for improvement, and I see that poster input is welcomed, and so I am confident that this board will continue to improve. In the meantime, I would suggest the enforcement of rules which will make outsiders feel a little more welcomed, and safe from personal attacks.

Well that is my 17 cents...I won't be cheap and give just a couple of pennies...


The Antideluvian Mir Erector,

Kai
I'm really sick of this guy's innocent act. IMO, this thread got off track with the following slander (speaking of who was the first to get personal):


quote:
Originally posted by Kai:
Peace...


quote:
She hasn't earned any special treatment from me... I'll treat her as I would anyone else... especially if she's going to be as pigheaded as you are.... In fact, she got off sorta light


Special treatment? I wasn't expecting that...I was expecting you to treat her like she was a woman that you respect.

I think that the civilized man would understand that there is a proper way to handle a woman. Your anger will be no excuse for assaulting a woman that you have praised everyday before now.

We boast and brag about how educated we are and yet we behave like savages when it comes to our women.

i understand why the sisters here would be insulted to see the men on this board lusting after whores while singing the praises of thinking women.

HonestBrother, your monday morning apologies will ring hollow when those who know you begin to realize that your abuses are habits...

Kai



Yes I have cooled off. And Yes I still believe he's an arrogant liar. And no amount of good will and reconciling is going to change the fact that I sincerely dislike this man.

Read the beginning of the thread, folks. Everyone was leery as to whether Kai was again asking a question with an agenda - on the very first page of the thread - and it turns out to be the case that he was.

If this newcomer wants to feel "welcome": then he should

1) Avoid starting threads with a question for which he is only prepared to receive one right answer. If he's not ready for a true discussion why pretend to start one?

2) When people say things that don't fall into line with his agenda, He needs to HONESTLY deal with what they actually say instead of forcing them into line with his agenda by either ignoring what they say or INTENTIONALLY distorting what they say to fit (and it's this tendency which I've labeled 'bullying'). I can point to several instances in my exchanges with him where he does this. If you want a line by line analysis and justification for my claims, I'm ready for it.

Being the newcomer, I really don't understand how he can behave as he does and honestly expect to be welcome. How do you behave like an asshole and expect to be welcomed?

Kai, you want my respect? Begin by stop hiding behind your 'newcomer' status and playing the innocent role like you simply have no idea. This act insults the intelligence of everyone on this board. It is beneath the dignity of a grown man who is responsible for his actions and contributes greatly to my perception that you are dishonest.

Yes.. I know I don't need to respond in kind.. For that I take full responsibility... Yes I should display more restraint... And I have not always acted maturely... These are my issues for which I take full responsibility and that I need to deal with...Knowing when to walk away...

And, folks I'm not trying to get the last word in here. But I will not pretend like all is well when it is not.

The best I can do is promise to avoid any thread he starts. Unless something drastic happens - like Kai and I suddenly becoming best pals - on this, you have my word.

PS: There are, in addition, personal issues between us which the board is not privy too. Kai needs to grow up and stop acting out of spite and jealousy... where he halfway spills the beans, revealing personal issues, then goes on to claim that it's all over everything I've written on the board. When he says that, either he's a liar or he's paranoid. For those who have been paying attention, he exhibits a similar pattern of aggression towards Black Viking who he also perceives as being "too close" to a certain female poster (that you all probably know who I'm talking about by now). Again he needs to be a man and drop the innocent act.

While we're telling the truth, Kai followed this female poster here from another board. He then perceived that some male posters were uncomfortably close to her. I suspect (I have no proof aside from a very strong pattern) that his intention from the start was to come here playing NOI alpha male, to provoke me in particular (which admittedly I fell for), and to make me look bad in the eyes of the object of his affection (and I helped him do it). His intent was slander from the start.

HOW ELSE DO YOU EXPLAIN THE INTENSE ATTENTION HE'S GIVEN TO MY POSTS - even ones that were made long before he came around???????

IMO - and it is my opinion - Kai doesn't care about this community. Kai cares about being closer to a certain someone than anybody else here is. And if he can't have her, no one else will either.

That's why Black Viking has received similar treatment from him - although BV has been admirably self-controlled.

Folks, I don't mean to be indiscrete but all of this is as transparent as Michael "the Chatterbot" Lofton once you understand the underlying principles involved.
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Damn- Tell us how you really feel HonestBrother! lol

I don't think you have to defend your case to anyone here. Just stop falling for the same trap if one is being set for you.

Personally, I'd love to see an old school rap battle (cage match style!) between the two of you in the ? forum - don't feel bad though, I'm on v's s--t list too, if that makes you feel any better.

Like I said before - It's time to light this baby on fire and let it float out to sea!

---- this thread
Smile


I'm so overjoyed that a grown man who is taking his avatar from a comic book character and who has

q=tbn:nqyQH15H2UCKtM:http://www.comicseek.com/Marvel-Characters-Th/Eternity.jpg

in his signature line is calling me a "dork"...

Pathetic liar...

I'm now going to be the adult and permanently swear off this thread - no matter what piece of juvenile horseshit comes out of his mouth next.
Last edited {1}
Peace....


quote:
I'm now going to be the adult and permanently swear off this thread - no matter what piece of juvenile horseshit comes out of his mouth next.


Hiya folks...lets see how Honest, honest brother really is...

Now I am gonna wager that despite the above statement, this lunatic will come back on this thread to comment...


Heres why...

This clown is actually delusional. He has insinuated that there is some hidden conflict behind the scenes that the rest of the board is not privy to. Oh this is rich, and pathetic, and really really sad. There is no conflict behind the scene folks...

Honestbrother, you are simply a nut.

I do not say these things to further an agenda, i say them because someone needs to inform this man about his mental state...he is publicly losing it.


There is nothing to speak of man ...Nothing...Nothing to be jealous of...Nothing to be concerned about as it relates to what you have alleged...You are completely insignificant...a toy...a broken...beaten...busted...Toy...

The people on this board may send you hugs, and kisses, and get well cards, and prozac, however, they know that you are one step away from being a raving lunatic.....I remember when you would have those temper tantrums, and your font would grow...that was a clear sign of a man near the edge....

You are awkwardly trying to accomplish the unthinkable...You are just plain abnormal..And creepy as all hell...

Go back into your cave professor...You are really good for nothing when you aren't training the children of our oppressors...


Now I am done with you....


I am just plain tired of laughing at you..it isn't funny anymore...it is starting to feel like I am kicking a sick man...



Kai

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