McCain Seeks Pardon for First Black Champ
By FREDERIC J. FROMMER, Associated Press Writer




WASHINGTON – Sen. John McCain said Wednesday he's sure that President Barack Obama "will be more than eager" to pardon the late black heavyweight champion Jack Johnson, who was sent to prison nearly a century ago because of his romantic ties with a white woman.

Appearing with three of Johnson's family members and Rep. Peter King, R-N.Y., McCain unveiled a resolution urging a presidential pardon for Johnson, who was convicted in 1913 of violating the Mann Act, which made it illegal to transport women across state lines for immoral purposes. The law has since been heavily amended, but has not been repealed.

McCain, R-Ariz., said he planned to speak to Obama about it, but added, "I think the last person I have to convince probably is President Obama."

"We need to erase this act of racism which sent an American citizen to prison on a trumped-up charge," McCain said, adding, "I have great confidence this president will be more than eager to sign this legislation and pardon Jack Johnson."

The White House declined to comment Wednesday. Obama was in London on Wednesday attending a summit on the global economic crisis.

McCain and King — both of whom have done their share of boxing — are advocating the pardon along with filmmaker Ken Burns, whose 2005 documentary, "Unforgivable Blackness: The Rise and Fall of Jack Johnson," explored the case against Johnson and the sentencing judge's admitted desire to "send a message" to black men about relationships with white women.

Johnson's great-niece, Dorothy Cross, and her daughters, Linda Haywood and Constance Hines, all of Chicago, were in town to support McCain's effort.

Haywood, 53, said Johnson's family considered his conviction "racially motivated, and we knew the type of man that he was."

"He simply lived his life, and he didn't have to explain how he lived his life," Haywood said.

Johnson became the first black heavyweight champion on Dec. 26, 1908, 100 years before Obama became the first black president.

"It certainly would be a moment in history," King said, "to have the first African-American president granting a pardon to the first African-American heavyweight champion."

The resolution announced Wednesday seeks a pardon that acknowledges Johnson's career and reputation were wronged "by a racially motivated conviction prompted by his success in the boxing ring and his relationship with white women." Similar resolutions offered in 2004 and last year failed to pass both chambers of Congress.

Burns helped form the Committee to Pardon Jack Johnson, which filed a petition with the Justice Department in 2004 that was never acted on. He called Johnson "the greatest boxer of all time," and said when Johnson proved unbeatable in the ring, "the white power establishment decided to beat him in the courts."

He called a pardon for Johnson "just a question of justice, which is not only blind, but color-blind," adding, "I think it absolutely does not have anything to do with the symbolism of an African-American president pardoning an African-American unjustly accused."

Johnson won the 1908 world heavyweight title after police in Australia stopped his 14-round match against the severely battered Canadian world champion, Tommy Burns. That led to a search for a "Great White Hope" who could beat Johnson. Two years later, Jim Jeffries, the American world titleholder Johnson had tried for years to fight, came out of retirement but lost in a match called "The Battle of the Century," resulting in deadly riots.

Authorities first targeted Johnson's relationship with Lucille Cameron, who later became his wife, but she refused to cooperate. They then found another white witness, Belle Schreiber, to testify against him. Johnson fled the country after his conviction, but agreed years later to return and serve a 10-month jail sentence. He tried to renew his boxing career after leaving prison, but failed to regain his title. He died in a car crash in 1946 at age 68.

Presidential pardons for the dead are rare.

In 1999, President Bill Clinton pardoned Lt. Henry O. Flipper, the Army's first black commissioned officer, who was drummed out of the military in 1882 after white officers accused him of embezzling $3,800 in commissary funds. Last year, President George W. Bush pardoned Charles Winters, who was convicted of violating the Neutrality Act when he conspired in 1948 to export aircraft to a foreign country in aid of Israel.
 
 BLACK by NATURE, PROUD by CHOICE.
Original Post
While I would be in favor of a pardon McCain can go fuck himself. He's obviously pulling this shit to mock Obama because he's black. He probably didn't care before Obama was elected. "Oh you're a black president so will you pardon your fellow Negroes?" Fuck you.
quote:
Originally posted by Empty Purnata:
While I would be in favor of a pardon McCain can go fuck himself. He's obviously pulling this shit to mock Obama because he's black. He probably didn't care before Obama was elected. "Oh you're a black president so will you pardon your fellow Negroes?" Fuck you.


appl appl appl thanks yeah exactly in the manner it was expressed...

off EP, I swear you sound like my mother... lol I could hear here voice as I was reading your post. I'll be expecting a call from her about this subject with those exact words tonight...

P.S. She only curses about politics...
quote:
"It certainly would be a moment in history," King said, "to have the first African-American president granting a pardon to the first African-American heavyweight champion."

------------------------------------------------
White people: some ig'nant, clueless ass-kissing motherfuckers.

If McCain was Prez, he would not even have considered doing this and this idiot is a huge boxing fan.

And in today's climate, hardly anyone even knows or remembers anything about Jack Johnson (including Black folk) but to his credit, Jack Johnson was a bad mother (shut yo' mouth!) strong, uber confident bad ass heavyweight champion who whupped up on some White ass in the boxing ring, was his own man: rich, took care of business (in & out of the ring) and took no shit from no man, Black or White.



He definitely deserves the pardon McCain since racist Whites could not defeat him in the ring so they invented and re-structured the political "Mann Act" because of him in order to trap him physically & mentally but don't try and appease and kiss up to Black folk. You had your chance to do that during the campaign and you totally surrended the Black vote & blew black people off. Blacks done scoped you, ain't feelin' your old arthritic ass and we ain't goin' Republican!!! td6

Even if Jack Johnson was alive today McCain, you know what he would say to you if you brought this shit to his attention based on him knowing of you? "Fuck you!!!"

That's the type of Black man Jack Johnson was.

And while you're at it McCain, have President Obama apologized for American slavery as well. It seems that some previous Presidents apologized for it so why not a biracial half Black/half White African American man with no ties whatsoever to slavery and slave ancestors?

Make sense doesn't it? Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes You dumb, ig'nant motherfuckers!!!! bang
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What was McCain's opinion about that old 1913 Jack Johnson law that got revived reciently after many decades of being ignored in MA?

Did he oppose its revival?

No?

I didn't think so.

It's a little late now.

Roll Eyes

Sorry, but I am somewhat unimpressed.

He had his chance to make opposition known when the issue came up very reciently.
quote:
And while you're at it McCain, have President Obama apologized for American slavery as well. It seems that some previous Presidents apologized for it


curious.

which previous presidents (besides Bill Clinton) apologized for slavery?
quote:
Originally posted by Fabulous:
quote:
And while you're at it McCain, have President Obama apologized for American slavery as well. It seems that some previous Presidents apologized for it


curious.

which previous presidents (besides Bill Clinton) apologized for slavery?

------------------------------------------------

President George W. Bush while visiting Africa.

Guess he did not have the onions to do it here on American soil in front of Black Amrericans.

Did it somewhere where in Africa apoligizing to AfricansRoll Eyes and not Black Americans where no one (or very little) was paying any attention when he did it. bang

Like I said earlier: White people: stupid, ig'nant & clueless motherfuckers!!! bang
------------------------------------------------

Fight against slavery made America better nation, Bush tells Senegalese.

President George W Bush yesterday stood on the shore from which Africans were once dispatched in chains to the Americas and branded slavery one of history's greatest crimes.

Speaking in Senegal's old slaving port of Gorée Island, Mr Bush made a speech dense with Christian language and ideals on the first trip by a Republican president to Africa.

Slavery produced a "dullness and hardness of conscience" in America and "Christian men and women became blind to the clearest commands of their faith and added hypocrisy to injustice".

But he added: "All the generations of oppression under the laws of man could not crush the hope of freedom."

The speech was made at the westernmost tip of Africa, with nothing but this small island and a clear ocean separating him from the Americas. He is just the third US president to visit Africa, after Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton.

No American president has apologised to Africa for slavery, their view being that slavery was a collective crime, practised and prolonged as much by Africans, who caught, imprisoned and trafficked in slaves, as by European and American traders.

Senegal's President Abdoulaye Wade made this point before Mr Bush spoke: "We are all descendants of those who practised it and were subjected to it and have a duty to bring it back to memory."

Addressing both Africans and black voters back home, Mr Bush said that the fight against slavery made America a "different and better nation" and that "by a plan known only to Providence, the stolen sons and daughters of Africa helped to awaken the conscience of America. The very people traded into slavery helped to set America free".

Though admitting that America's fight for racial justice was not over, he compared the advance to freedom by America's blacks to the progress now being made in Africa as countries struggle free of wars and dictatorships towards democracy and free markets.

"African peoples are now writing your own story of liberty," he said.

Mr Bush touched down in Dakar just before dawn yesterday and while the city was waking up, his cortege swept through the freshly-cleaned streets to the presidential palace, where he met Mr Wade and the presidents of Sierra Leone, Benin, Gambia, Mali, Cape Verde, Niger and Ghana.

Though he had hoped to promote his £9 billion plan to fight Aids in Africa and the offer of financial aid to countries pursuing democratic and free market reforms, he was forced on to the subject of Liberia.

Many West African countries hope America will send troops to restore peace once President Charles Taylor has left for exile in Nigeria. Mr Bush said: "We're in the process of determining what is necessary to maintain the ceasefire and to allow for a peaceful transition of power."

Liberia was founded by freed American slaves in the 19th century and many in the country still see America as its saviour. Mr Bush has visited Africa once before, when he was sent by his father in 1990 as a presidential emissary to attend Gambia's 25th anniversary of independence.

Yesterday, however, he arrived with full pomp, with the two most senior African Americans in government, the secretary of state, Colin Powell, and the national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice.

They have impressed on Mr Bush the importance both domestically and internationally of an invigorated US policy towards Africa.

Gorée Island and its Slave House have become a popular draw for black Americans interested in their history. Mr Bush covets their votes in next year's presidential election.

Stability in Africa is also seen by the White House as vital to stopping terrorists, who have found havens in chaotic corners of the continent.

Whatever Mr Bush's motives for his recent and - to many - surprising interest in Africa, Senegal was mostly welcoming of his visit. Articles in the Senegalese press have favourably compared America's vigorous new approach to Africa with failed promises from their former colonial power, France.

The differences between a White House visit to Africa and, say, Europe, became apparent as the presidential party crossed a stretch of beach in the sweltering heat to get from the Slave House museum to the podium where Mr Bush was to speak.

Miss Rice's heels struggled with the sand and Mr Bush removed his jacket and tie. Mr Wade and his French wife were more suitably dressed in baggy white cotton.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new...ells-Senegalese.html
quote:
Originally posted by Cholly:

He definitely deserves the pardon McCain since racist Whites could not defeat him in the ring so they invented and re-structured the political "Mann Act" because of him in order to trap him physically & mentally but don't try and appease and kiss up to Black folk. You had your chance to do that during the campaign and you totally surrended the Black vote & blew black people off. Blacks done scoped you, ain't feelin' your old arthritic ass and we ain't goin' Republican!!! td6


Yep!! I'll bet you dollars to donuts that this is the Republican version of how to get Black folk to run right in to the Republican Party! Eek That's just the way they think. And they are probably quite confident in themselves that this should should make us pretty damn grateful for the recognition. Roll Eyes

Also ... it would be kinda crazy even for them ... but, I have to wonder if the reason that they had McCain do it was to signify/dignify (19) him as the *leader* of the Party! Eek

Surely they can't really want to travel down that road again ... can they? Confused
quote:
Originally posted by Cholly:
quote:
Originally posted by Fabulous:
quote:
And while you're at it McCain, have President Obama apologized for American slavery as well. It seems that some previous Presidents apologized for it


curious.

which previous presidents (besides Bill Clinton) apologized for slavery?

------------------------------------------------

President George W. Bush while visiting Africa.

Guess he did not have the onions to do it here on American soil in front of Black Amrericans.

Did it somewhere where in Africa apoligizing to AfricansRoll Eyes and not Black Americans where no one (or very little) was paying any attention when he did it. bang

Like I said earlier: White people: stupid, ig'nant & clueless motherfuckers!!! bang
------------------------------------------------

Fight against slavery made America better nation, Bush tells Senegalese.

President George W Bush yesterday stood on the shore from which Africans were once dispatched in chains to the Americas and branded slavery one of history's greatest crimes.*snip*

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new...ells-Senegalese.html


Thanks Cholly...

I appreciate your response.

Dang, I had COMPLETELY forgotten about Bush

*gag & puke*
quote:
Originally posted by Empty Purnata:
While I would be in favor of a pardon McCain can go fuck himself. He's obviously pulling this shit to mock Obama because he's black. He probably didn't care before Obama was elected. "Oh you're a black president so will you pardon your fellow Negroes?" Fuck you.


While I wouldn't have said...quite...that way, but....

rock

PEACE

Jim Chester
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
quote:
Originally posted by Empty Purnata:
While I would be in favor of a pardon McCain can go fuck himself. He's obviously pulling this shit to mock Obama because he's black. He probably didn't care before Obama was elected. "Oh you're a black president so will you pardon your fellow Negroes?" Fuck you.


appl appl appl thanks yeah exactly in the manner it was expressed...

off EP, I swear you sound like my mother... lol I could hear here voice as I was reading your post. I'll be expecting a call from her about this subject with those exact words tonight...


Co-sign all of this. Mine, too, Oshun. And my mom doesn't curse!
I don’t understand many of you. Who give a sh1t if McCain really wanted to do it or not? What I think is obvious is that the Republicans have to adopt a “minority strategy” to be viable in the future. That means that they have to do things to win the approval of minorities. Granted, this was mere symbolism and not substance, it does reflect the fact that changing demographics means that minorities will have more leverage with the Republican Party. Right now, the Democrats don’t have to do a dang thing to get the black vote. What are the democrats proposing for black people and why did a Republican have to be the one to seek the pardon? Democrats did not care because they already have the black vote locked up….especially with a black president. That pacifies the black community. Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?

My point is simply this: Leverage is not about sincerity. Leverage is about using what you got to get what you want……it’s not about the other person wanting to give it to you are being sincere about giving it to you. It’s about the other entity NEEDING to give it to you so that they can get something that they want.

If Republicans sought to promote reparations for black folks (it will never happen though) because they felt it a way to make inroads into the black vote...who gives a sh1t if they really did not want to do it or not, but felt they needed to do it politically? That is how politics works. They give you something in return for your support. Democrats don't have to do anything for blacks....because they have our support already. That is why the democrats did not seek to pardon JJ.

PS....JJ got a HUGE HEAD Eek
Well Noah....never say never...because I am sure it was said about the end of slavery and having a black president. I agree with EP and the others....this is just some token display bullshit.....like black people are small-mined and distracted from the real issues like a child when he sees a new toy. If republicans wanted to do something, they would have appointed blacks to positions that are domestic and and can positively affect blacks here. Instead, they appoint blacks to foreign policy positions to give the rest of the world the illusion that they are inclusive....f-k em all...big and small......
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin41:
Well Noah....never say never...because I am sure it was said about the end of slavery and having a black president. I agree with EP and the others....this is just some token display bullshit.....like black people are small-mined and distracted from the real issues like a child when he sees a new toy. If republicans wanted to do something, they would have appointed blacks to positions that are domestic and and can positively affect blacks here. Instead, they appoint blacks to foreign policy positions to give the rest of the world the illusion that they are inclusive....f-k em all...big and small......


Well....I ask this. How is Republicans EVER going to be viable again....unless they start attracting more minorities? It really does not matter to me that their overtures are “Token”. What matters to me is that they are feeling the NEED to come up with tokens like this pardon and Steele as their chairman. The first step has always been tokenism and that was true for the Democratic Party as well. The next step will have to be policy. The people who are going to do the most for you are the people that love you or the people that need you and fear losing you. The Democratic Party does not love black people nor do they fear losing our support, although they depend on it. The Republican Party definitely does not love us and traditionally (the last 50 years) have not needed us. However, the NEED us or other minorities going forward and will be forced to recognize that they only way they will make inroads is with policy initiatives that we need. They are far from being there yet, but they are, at this point, just as likely to enact policy targeted to our benefit as the Democratic Party is. Why? Again the reason being that Democrats will not buy the cow as long as they can get the milk for free. Strategically, in terms of politics, it makes no sense to create policy targeted towards black benefit, although it is greatly needed to promote racial equality. If you got “just enough” money to get by…..you are not going to spend that money buying things you already have. You are going to spend that money buying the things that you need but don’t have. The same works politically. The democratic party can best maintain power by ignoring the black vote, policy wise, and instead focus on buying the votes of white independents, Hispanics, Jews and others. Why spend political capital on black folks when they are a "captive" support group? The only way blacks are going to get policy directed at us is when Both parties Need our vote and feel that they have to compete for it. I think the Republican party is moving in that direction, given the demographic changes against them, while the Democratic party is stagnated from the valid assumption that blacks will likely support the democratic party unless there is a drastic shift in policy by the republican party....that benefits blacks.
Last edited {1}
I've actually always liked John Mccain. One of the few politicians who I find interesting. I was saddened by his past vote on the MLK holiday, but he was a stand up guy and apologized for his mistake well before he ran for president. As far as not supporting hate crimes or affirmative action, I don't consider those to be "civil rights" issues anyway. I don't give a shit about a person's motivation, I just want them punished for the crime. And affirmative action mocks the dream of MLK, by putting more stock into the color of one's skin than the content of that person's character. Of course I am a hypocrite, cause I still voted for Barrack Obama, inspite of not agreeing with his policies. But I find it sad, damned if he does or doesn't. People have labeled this war hero a "Nazi" and they will never open their minds or hearts to see differently. It's a shame, he can't win love from the Right or the Left, guess he's kinda on his own out there. Maybe that's why I relate to him so well.
quote:
Originally posted by Noah The African:
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin41:
Well Noah....never say never...because I am sure it was said about the end of slavery and having a black president. I agree with EP and the others....this is just some token display bullshit.....like black people are small-mined and distracted from the real issues like a child when he sees a new toy. If republicans wanted to do something, they would have appointed blacks to positions that are domestic and and can positively affect blacks here. Instead, they appoint blacks to foreign policy positions to give the rest of the world the illusion that they are inclusive....f-k em all...big and small......


Well....I ask this. How is Republicans EVER going to be viable again....unless they start attracting more minorities? It really does not matter to me that their overtures are “Token”. What matters to me is that they are feeling the NEED to come up with tokens like this pardon and Steele as their chairman. The first step has always been tokenism and that was true for the Democratic Party as well. The next step will have to be policy. The people who are going to do the most for you are the people that love you or the people that need you and fear losing you. The Democratic Party does not love black people nor do they fear losing our support, although they depend on it. The Republican Party definitely does not love us and traditionally (the last 50 years) have not needed us. However, the NEED us or other minorities going forward and will be forced to recognize that they only way they will make inroads is with policy initiatives that we need. They are far from being there yet, but they are, at this point, just as likely to enact policy targeted to our benefit as the Democratic Party is. Why? Again the reason being that Democrats will not buy the cow as long as they can get the milk for free. Strategically, in terms of politics, it makes no sense to create policy targeted towards black benefit, although it is greatly needed to promote racial equality. If you got “just enough” money to get by…..you are not going to spend that money buying things you already have. You are going to spend that money buying the things that you need but don’t have. The same works politically. The democratic party can best maintain power by ignoring the black vote, policy wise, and instead focus on buying the votes of white independents, Hispanics, Jews and others. Why spend political capital on black folks when they are a "captive" support group? The only way blacks are going to get policy directed at us is when Both parties Need our vote and feel that they have to compete for it. I think the Republican party is moving in that direction, given the demographic changes against them, while the Democratic party is stagnated from the valid assumption that blacks will likely support the democratic party unless there is a drastic shift in policy by the republican party....that benefits blacks.


BING fucking O! That should be common sense. I always hear bitching and moaning about how African Americans are under valued as democrats, but at the end of the day we still get back in bed and give it up to the married man known as the Democratic Party. When are people going to wake up and start to look and think outside there little box? Ideas on how to make this country and the world a better place should be debated and considered, rather than demonized and shut out. Personally I'm an independent, ya know that "swing vote". If more people in the African American community joined me, we could really shake things up, but now that we've got a Black (technically half black) president, we've got our fur coat and new car. We may never become more than just a mistress.
quote:
Originally posted by joeodd:

When are people going to wake up and start to look and think outside there little box? Ideas on how to make this country and the world a better place should be debated and considered, rather than demonized and shut out.


I think people would be happy to 'think out the box' if there were a valid and viable alternative. Let's face it, when it comes to the Republican Party there's not much to think about. However bad Black folks are treated by the Democrats, it pales in comparison to the disregard and disrespect that is shown by the Republicans.

Better a mistress than a street whore, I suppose. 19
quote:
Originally posted by joeodd:
quote:
Originally posted by Noah The African:
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin41:
Well Noah....never say never...because I am sure it was said about the end of slavery and having a black president. I agree with EP and the others....this is just some token display bullshit.....like black people are small-mined and distracted from the real issues like a child when he sees a new toy. If republicans wanted to do something, they would have appointed blacks to positions that are domestic and and can positively affect blacks here. Instead, they appoint blacks to foreign policy positions to give the rest of the world the illusion that they are inclusive....f-k em all...big and small......


Well....I ask this. How is Republicans EVER going to be viable again....unless they start attracting more minorities? It really does not matter to me that their overtures are “Token”. What matters to me is that they are feeling the NEED to come up with tokens like this pardon and Steele as their chairman. The first step has always been tokenism and that was true for the Democratic Party as well. The next step will have to be policy. The people who are going to do the most for you are the people that love you or the people that need you and fear losing you. The Democratic Party does not love black people nor do they fear losing our support, although they depend on it. The Republican Party definitely does not love us and traditionally (the last 50 years) have not needed us. However, the NEED us or other minorities going forward and will be forced to recognize that they only way they will make inroads is with policy initiatives that we need. They are far from being there yet, but they are, at this point, just as likely to enact policy targeted to our benefit as the Democratic Party is. Why? Again the reason being that Democrats will not buy the cow as long as they can get the milk for free. Strategically, in terms of politics, it makes no sense to create policy targeted towards black benefit, although it is greatly needed to promote racial equality. If you got “just enough” money to get by…..you are not going to spend that money buying things you already have. You are going to spend that money buying the things that you need but don’t have. The same works politically. The democratic party can best maintain power by ignoring the black vote, policy wise, and instead focus on buying the votes of white independents, Hispanics, Jews and others. Why spend political capital on black folks when they are a "captive" support group? The only way blacks are going to get policy directed at us is when Both parties Need our vote and feel that they have to compete for it. I think the Republican party is moving in that direction, given the demographic changes against them, while the Democratic party is stagnated from the valid assumption that blacks will likely support the democratic party unless there is a drastic shift in policy by the republican party....that benefits blacks.


BING fucking O! That should be common sense. I always hear bitching and moaning about how African Americans are under valued as democrats, but at the end of the day we still get back in bed and give it up to the married man known as the Democratic Party. When are people going to wake up and start to look and think outside there little box? Ideas on how to make this country and the world a better place should be debated and considered, rather than demonized and shut out. Personally I'm an independent, ya know that "swing vote". If more people in the African American community joined me, we could really shake things up, but now that we've got a *Black (technically half black) president, we've got our fur coat and new car. We may never become more than just a mistress.


* Biologically half-black; technically and legally "black", via the one-drop black blood rule. Yes, it sounds petty, but hey white bigots were the ones who made that law, and are known not to give biracial people (especially those who are half- or part-black) partial credit on their "whiteness," then or now. If that were the case, the KKK would be burning half-crosses on Frederick Douglass's and/or Halle Berry's lawns. Either they're considered (all) white or they're not.

And the CONservatives certainly don't treat President Obama as "half black," because in America, saying a mixed person as "half black" is like saying a woman is "half pregnant." Half black or part black is just black enough to be hated on.
Appearing with three of Johnson's family members and Rep. Peter King, R-N.Y., McCain unveiled a resolution urging a presidential pardon for Johnson, who was convicted in 1913 of violating the Mann Act, which made it illegal to transport women across state lines for immoral purposes. The law has since been heavily amended, but has not been repealed.---article

This is another of the laws in the United States arsenal of 'STAND-BY LAW'.

These are the laws of 'The James Crow, Esq System'

These laws controlled the African American population of the United States.

They don't get repealed.

They get 'set aside'.

We are told 'They don't have to be repealed. To do so is needless work that would burden the legislatures of the States, and the U.S. Congress.

The magic words 'They have been preempted.'

You know...that 'lawyer-talk'.

They stand ready to be reinstated in a single stroke of the pen.

No talk.

No negotiation.

No nothin'.

In the blink of an eye.

Question:

If the laws, and rules of the Constitution, are no longer OF USE...why keep them in the language of the language of the law?????

EVERYTHING IS ARCHIVE.

WHY NOT THESE READY-MADE SOCIETAL CHAINS FOR AFRICAN AMERICANS?


PEACE

Jim Chester
quote:
Originally posted by James Wesley Chester:
Appearing with three of Johnson's family members and Rep. Peter King, R-N.Y., McCain unveiled a resolution urging a presidential pardon for Johnson, who was convicted in 1913 of violating the Mann Act, which made it illegal to transport women across state lines for immoral purposes. The law has since been heavily amended, but has not been repealed.---article

This is another of the laws in the United States arsenal of 'STAND-BY LAW'.

These are the laws of 'The James Crow, Esq System'

These laws controlled the African American population of the United States.

They don't get repealed.

They get 'set aside'.

We are told 'They don't have to be repealed. To do so is needless work that would burden the legislatures of the States, and the U.S. Congress.

The magic words 'They have been preempted.'

You know...that 'lawyer-talk'.

They stand ready to be reinstated in a single stroke of the pen.

No talk.

No negotiation.

No nothin'.

In the blink of an eye.

Question:

If the laws, and rules of the Constitution, are no longer OF USE...why keep them in the language of the language of the law?????

EVERYTHING IS ARCHIVE.

WHY NOT THESE READY-MADE SOCIETAL CHAINS FOR AFRICAN AMERICANS?


PEACE

Jim Chester


That's actually a very good point and should be debated. So many useless laws still on the books in this country. I think in Mississippi there is a law on the books that prohibits women from driving alone after dark. To many this is a sign of political laziness, but to conspiracy people it's a sign of on coming fascism. Hard to argue against that when the logic for not getting rid of these laws is so weak.
Ya know a common theme of what hear in any thread about African Americans and the govenment's "role", revolves around what they can do for us. I have breaking news. They can't do shit for us. Back when the white man was openly beating our asses in the streets and openly mocking us on television, in movies and books. We are held together by the struggle. Our ties to each other ran deep and we adopted generational traditions of brother and sisterhood toward fellow African Americans. It was a matter of survival. Now it seems like they let go of the rope and we have no one to play tug of war with. We are still holding the rope, but we are now pulling against ourselves. It's time to toss the rope and start thinking like winners. What's the one thing that captains of industry, inventors, great artists, great athletes, and overall successful people have in common? They are there worst critics and push themselves harder to be be the best. They don't make excuses, they make things happen.

Take the Native Americans. For years they lived off of government welfare, in fact many still do. But something changed within the last 30 years. Some people got together and decided to take their destinies in their own hands and sued the govenment for the right to open businesses like casinos and factories on reservation land. These folks won, and started to employ people who were on welfare. For years reservations looked like 3rd world countries, alcholism was the highest in the nation, drug use, and hopelessness and despair. They decided not to be the governments pet and build something for themselves and the children. We must do that, we must find ourselves again and internalize our energies. Why don't we ever hear complaints about government assistance from the Asian American community? Because they stick together, help each other start business, they even have private community based banks. They focus on preserving the culture and future prosperity. Maybe it's time we started to do the same. JMO
quote:
Originally posted by joeodd:
Ya know a common theme of what hear in any thread about African Americans and the govenment's "role", revolves around what they can do for us. I have breaking news. They can't do shit for us. Back when the white man was openly beating our asses in the streets and openly mocking us on television, in movies and books. We are held together by the struggle. Our ties to each other ran deep and we adopted generational traditions of brother and sisterhood toward fellow African Americans. It was a matter of survival. Now it seems like they let go of the rope and we have no one to play tug of war with. We are still holding the rope, but we are now pulling against ourselves. It's time to toss the rope and start thinking like winners. What's the one thing that captains of industry, inventors, great artists, great athletes, and overall successful people have in common? They are there worst critics and push themselves harder to be be the best. They don't make excuses, they make things happen.

Take the Native Americans. For years they lived off of government welfare, in fact many still do. But something changed within the last 30 years. Some people got together and decided to take their destinies in their own hands and sued the govenment for the right to open businesses like casinos and factories on reservation land. These folks won, and started to employ people who were on welfare. For years reservations looked like 3rd world countries, alcholism was the highest in the nation, drug use, and hopelessness and despair. They decided not to be the governments pet and build something for themselves and the children. We must do that, we must find ourselves again and internalize our energies. Why don't we ever hear complaints about government assistance from the Asian American community? Because they stick together, help each other start business, they even have private community based banks. They focus on preserving the culture and future prosperity. Maybe it's time we started to do the same. JMO


I would have to say that I agree with (almost) every word of this ... 150%!! tfro

All except your opening statement.
quote:
Ya know a common theme of what hear in any thread about African Americans and the govenment's "role", revolves around what they can do for us. I have breaking news. They can't do shit for us.


I don't see this as an "either/or". The government absolutely can and should do a WHOLE LOT of *shit* for us. It owes a DEBT that we should in no way *write off* as unpaid or uncollected.

BUT ... that doesn't mean that we are NOT able to or SHOULDN'T do what needs to be done by and for ourselves for our own advancement.

Everybody has a role. And EVERYBODY needs to play their own. Us. Them. No exemptions. No exceptions.
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
quote:
Originally posted by joeodd:
Ya know a common theme of what hear in any thread about African Americans and the govenment's "role", revolves around what they can do for us. I have breaking news. They can't do shit for us. Back when the white man was openly beating our asses in the streets and openly mocking us on television, in movies and books. We are held together by the struggle. Our ties to each other ran deep and we adopted generational traditions of brother and sisterhood toward fellow African Americans. It was a matter of survival. Now it seems like they let go of the rope and we have no one to play tug of war with. We are still holding the rope, but we are now pulling against ourselves. It's time to toss the rope and start thinking like winners. What's the one thing that captains of industry, inventors, great artists, great athletes, and overall successful people have in common? They are there worst critics and push themselves harder to be be the best. They don't make excuses, they make things happen.

Take the Native Americans. For years they lived off of government welfare, in fact many still do. But something changed within the last 30 years. Some people got together and decided to take their destinies in their own hands and sued the govenment for the right to open businesses like casinos and factories on reservation land. These folks won, and started to employ people who were on welfare. For years reservations looked like 3rd world countries, alcholism was the highest in the nation, drug use, and hopelessness and despair. They decided not to be the governments pet and build something for themselves and the children. We must do that, we must find ourselves again and internalize our energies. Why don't we ever hear complaints about government assistance from the Asian American community? Because they stick together, help each other start business, they even have private community based banks. They focus on preserving the culture and future prosperity. Maybe it's time we started to do the same. JMO


I would have to say that I agree with (almost) every word of this ... 150%!! tfro

All except your opening statement.
quote:
Ya know a common theme of what hear in any thread about African Americans and the govenment's "role", revolves around what they can do for us. I have breaking news. They can't do shit for us.


I don't see this as an "either/or". The government absolutely can and should do a WHOLE LOT of *shit* for us. It owes a DEBT that we should in no way *write off* as unpaid or uncollected.

BUT ... that doesn't mean that we are NOT able to or SHOULDN'T do what needs to be done by and for ourselves for our own advancement.

Everybody has a role. And EVERYBODY needs to play their own. Us. Them. No exemptions. No exceptions.


Ok I'll bite. What's the governments role? How can the government "help" us solve our problems? They've sold our country to China, they can't protect our borders, politicians demonize shit, after they sign bill they don't even bother to read. Yeah the government has a role to play alright, I just think it should be as small as possible. When people demand more from themselves they see a greater return, it's the single common thread among all successful people, it will never change. We as a community need to wake up and realize this.

Stop worrying about racist white people, guess what every race discriminates. You think if black people were brought over to Asia as slaves, that they would be any kinder as masters? The majority will always fuck over the minority. It's human nature and will never end as long as we all have free will. And please save me the argument that I'm making excuses for the white man. I'm just saying that the white man or any other man for that matter is irrelevant When we focus on ourselves and we will start to move forward.
quote:
Originally posted by joeodd:

Ok I'll bite. What's the governments role? How can the government "help" us solve our problems?


Money. And lots of it.

And I'm sorry but I don't really care about the fact that its (the gov't.) in dire straits, ignorant or incompetent. That's not my problem. Nor does it diminish in any way the debt owed to me and mine.

Figure it out. And pay up.


quote:
Stop worrying about racist white people, guess what every race discriminates.
You think if black people were brought over to Asia as slaves, that they would be any kinder as masters? The majority will always fuck over the minority. It's human nature and will never end as long as we all have free will. And please save me the argument that I'm making excuses for the white man. I'm just saying that the white man or any other man for that matter is irrelevant When we focus on ourselves and we will start to move forward.


Personally, I don't think I could give less of a damn about (racist) white people and what they think ... ESPECIALLY about us. Again ... not my problem, nor my concern.

And I'm not sure what "I'm making excuses for the white man" argument you're talking about ... so, consider it saved. Smile

Let me try to say this again in another way that may be easier to understand: Black people need to do what Black people need to do for their own benefit and progress. And the gov't - which sanctioned and perpetuated human slavery, desecration, and suffering (contrary to its own Constitution of laws, I might add) - needs to do what IT needs to do to pay and compensate for the wrong it committed.

Again .. I see no "either/or." I see "both/and" as the most productive and beneficial solution for us.
OK I have been itching to respond to this thread for two days now. I am SO sick of black folks buying into these conservative ideas that we cannot use the government as a means to get what we want. The very same people who tout this garbage, conservative white non-profit organizations, will go and apply for every red cent the government will hand out. Yes white people take handouts, as well do Asians and any other group deemed a 'minority' who comes to this country. Yet we are the only group who asserts this foolish notion that we are somehow not entitled to recieve money from the government that will help us as a group reach our goals. As far as I can tell, everyone on this board is employed and pays federal and state taxes (except TX). So why NOT use the government like the other groups. IF anything we are much more entitled to it than any other immigrant group in this nation.
I blame the religious and neo-conservative religious groups in our community for fostering this type of attitude. These same groups have also fostered a go-along get-along attitude in our community. Y'all know what groups I'm talking about, I needn't call any of them out and just so I'm clear they cross all religious lines. The entire attitude is stupid, backwards and is leaving us without another viable option to assert our group power. We are well on our way to becoming a permanent underclass. Meaning we are going to be the gift that keeps on giving and NEVER recieving.
quote:
Originally posted by Yemaya:
OK I have been itching to respond to this thread for two days now. I am SO sick of black folks buying into these conservative ideas that we cannot use the government as a means to get what we want. The very same people who tout this garbage, conservative white non-profit organizations, will go and apply for every red cent the government will hand out. Yes white people take handouts, as well do Asians and any other group deemed a 'minority' who comes to this country. Yet we are the only group who asserts this foolish notion that we are somehow not entitled to recieve money from the government that will help us as a group reach our goals. As far as I can tell, everyone on this board is employed and pays federal and state taxes (except TX). So why NOT use the government like the other groups. IF anything we are much more entitled to it than any other immigrant group in this nation.
I blame the religious and neo-conservative religious groups in our community for fostering this type of attitude. These same groups have also fostered a go-along get-along attitude in our community. Y'all know what groups I'm talking about, I needn't call any of them out and just so I'm clear they cross all religious lines. The entire attitude is stupid, backwards and is leaving us without another viable option to assert our group power. We are well on our way to becoming a permanent underclass. Meaning we are going to be the gift that keeps on giving and NEVER recieving.


The fact of the matter is, that we have been taking government money now for many years. However without the proper structure and leadership, we've pissed the money away. Now if other groups get government assistance and find a way to invest it into their communities, then we should do the same. But the state of the black communities as they stand today, it wouldn't make much difference if the government threw more money into welfare and other "assistance" programs. We need more low interest business loans, we need to find out how Asian (who are much smaller of a minority than we are) managed to start their own banking system, and why they can continue to grow generational prosperity. Hey I'm for whatever works, conservative or liberal. My point is that we've been trying it the Liberal way for many years now, and we still don't see any real difference. We need a diversity of ideas, greater unity, and more personal responsibility as a people. We need to shame those of us like R Kelly and Chris Brown who, in one case literally, piss on our people and our image. Instead we continue to defend and celebrate celebrities who exhibit the worst behaviors. Until we start taking control, all the money in the world won't stop our downward spiral. We live in a culture where ignorance is called "keeping it real" and intelligence is called "selling out". I know because I lived that experience......
quote:
Originally posted by joeodd:
quote:
Originally posted by Yemaya:
OK I have been itching to respond to this thread for two days now. I am SO sick of black folks buying into these conservative ideas that we cannot use the government as a means to get what we want. The very same people who tout this garbage, conservative white non-profit organizations, will go and apply for every red cent the government will hand out. Yes white people take handouts, as well do Asians and any other group deemed a 'minority' who comes to this country. Yet we are the only group who asserts this foolish notion that we are somehow not entitled to recieve money from the government that will help us as a group reach our goals. As far as I can tell, everyone on this board is employed and pays federal and state taxes (except TX). So why NOT use the government like the other groups. IF anything we are much more entitled to it than any other immigrant group in this nation.
I blame the religious and neo-conservative religious groups in our community for fostering this type of attitude. These same groups have also fostered a go-along get-along attitude in our community. Y'all know what groups I'm talking about, I needn't call any of them out and just so I'm clear they cross all religious lines. The entire attitude is stupid, backwards and is leaving us without another viable option to assert our group power. We are well on our way to becoming a permanent underclass. Meaning we are going to be the gift that keeps on giving and NEVER recieving.


The fact of the matter is, that we have been taking government money now for many years. However without the proper structure and leadership, we've pissed the money away. Now if other groups get government assistance and find a way to invest it into their communities, then we should do the same. But the state of the black communities as they stand today, it wouldn't make much difference if the government threw more money into welfare and other "assistance" programs. We need more low interest business loans, we need to find out how Asian (who are much smaller of a minority than we are) managed to start their own banking system, and why they can continue to grow generational prosperity. Hey I'm for whatever works, conservative or liberal. My point is that we've been trying it the Liberal way for many years now, and we still don't see any real difference. We need a diversity of ideas, greater unity, and more personal responsibility as a people. We need to shame those of us like R Kelly and Chris Brown who, in one case literally, piss on our people and our image. Instead we continue to defend and celebrate celebrities who exhibit the worst behaviors. Until we start taking control, all the money in the world won't stop our downward spiral. We live in a culture where ignorance is called "keeping it real" and intelligence is called "selling out". I know because I lived that experience......



I agree with Yemaya with us buying into what the hell conservatives say. Until they start to demonstrate policy that has tangible goals and outcomes, they are feeding black folks Bs like we're some dumbazzes...and as so far as what the f-k ignorant black folks do.....i'l be damned if i carry some burden of blackness when no one else is held accountable for the evil and ignorant schit their race does.....if Tim Mc Veigh can blow up a federal building and no one else carries a stigma, i'll be damned if a few fools in entertainment and other things not really necessary to society make me feel any kind of lesser perception of myself or the rest of the race....we need to quit letting others tell us what our values and self-perception should be when they are even worse in nature themselves....
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin41:
quote:
Originally posted by joeodd:
quote:
Originally posted by Yemaya:
OK I have been itching to respond to this thread for two days now. I am SO sick of black folks buying into these conservative ideas that we cannot use the government as a means to get what we want. The very same people who tout this garbage, conservative white non-profit organizations, will go and apply for every red cent the government will hand out. Yes white people take handouts, as well do Asians and any other group deemed a 'minority' who comes to this country. Yet we are the only group who asserts this foolish notion that we are somehow not entitled to recieve money from the government that will help us as a group reach our goals. As far as I can tell, everyone on this board is employed and pays federal and state taxes (except TX). So why NOT use the government like the other groups. IF anything we are much more entitled to it than any other immigrant group in this nation.
I blame the religious and neo-conservative religious groups in our community for fostering this type of attitude. These same groups have also fostered a go-along get-along attitude in our community. Y'all know what groups I'm talking about, I needn't call any of them out and just so I'm clear they cross all religious lines. The entire attitude is stupid, backwards and is leaving us without another viable option to assert our group power. We are well on our way to becoming a permanent underclass. Meaning we are going to be the gift that keeps on giving and NEVER recieving.


The fact of the matter is, that we have been taking government money now for many years. However without the proper structure and leadership, we've pissed the money away. Now if other groups get government assistance and find a way to invest it into their communities, then we should do the same. But the state of the black communities as they stand today, it wouldn't make much difference if the government threw more money into welfare and other "assistance" programs. We need more low interest business loans, we need to find out how Asian (who are much smaller of a minority than we are) managed to start their own banking system, and why they can continue to grow generational prosperity. Hey I'm for whatever works, conservative or liberal. My point is that we've been trying it the Liberal way for many years now, and we still don't see any real difference. We need a diversity of ideas, greater unity, and more personal responsibility as a people. We need to shame those of us like R Kelly and Chris Brown who, in one case literally, piss on our people and our image. Instead we continue to defend and celebrate celebrities who exhibit the worst behaviors. Until we start taking control, all the money in the world won't stop our downward spiral. We live in a culture where ignorance is called "keeping it real" and intelligence is called "selling out". I know because I lived that experience......



I agree with Yemaya with us buying into what the hell conservatives say. Until they start to demonstrate policy that has tangible goals and outcomes, they are feeding black folks Bs like we're some dumbazzes...and as so far as what the f-k ignorant black folks do.....i'l be damned if i carry some burden of blackness when no one else is held accountable for the evil and ignorant schit their race does.....if Tim Mc Veigh can blow up a federal building and no one else carries a stigma, i'll be damned if a few fools in entertainment and other things not really necessary to society make me feel any kind of lesser perception of myself or the rest of the race....we need to quit letting others tell us what our values and self-perception should be when they are even worse in nature themselves....


Thank you Kevin41 all that other BS about R.Kelly and Chris Brown is just a bunch of garbage. Who cares? Its irrelevent to this discussion about going for ours.
quote:
Originally posted by Yemaya:
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin41:
quote:
Originally posted by joeodd:
quote:
Originally posted by Yemaya:
OK I have been itching to respond to this thread for two days now. I am SO sick of black folks buying into these conservative ideas that we cannot use the government as a means to get what we want. The very same people who tout this garbage, conservative white non-profit organizations, will go and apply for every red cent the government will hand out. Yes white people take handouts, as well do Asians and any other group deemed a 'minority' who comes to this country. Yet we are the only group who asserts this foolish notion that we are somehow not entitled to recieve money from the government that will help us as a group reach our goals. As far as I can tell, everyone on this board is employed and pays federal and state taxes (except TX). So why NOT use the government like the other groups. IF anything we are much more entitled to it than any other immigrant group in this nation.
I blame the religious and neo-conservative religious groups in our community for fostering this type of attitude. These same groups have also fostered a go-along get-along attitude in our community. Y'all know what groups I'm talking about, I needn't call any of them out and just so I'm clear they cross all religious lines. The entire attitude is stupid, backwards and is leaving us without another viable option to assert our group power. We are well on our way to becoming a permanent underclass. Meaning we are going to be the gift that keeps on giving and NEVER recieving.


The fact of the matter is, that we have been taking government money now for many years. However without the proper structure and leadership, we've pissed the money away. Now if other groups get government assistance and find a way to invest it into their communities, then we should do the same. But the state of the black communities as they stand today, it wouldn't make much difference if the government threw more money into welfare and other "assistance" programs. We need more low interest business loans, we need to find out how Asian (who are much smaller of a minority than we are) managed to start their own banking system, and why they can continue to grow generational prosperity. Hey I'm for whatever works, conservative or liberal. My point is that we've been trying it the Liberal way for many years now, and we still don't see any real difference. We need a diversity of ideas, greater unity, and more personal responsibility as a people. We need to shame those of us like R Kelly and Chris Brown who, in one case literally, piss on our people and our image. Instead we continue to defend and celebrate celebrities who exhibit the worst behaviors. Until we start taking control, all the money in the world won't stop our downward spiral. We live in a culture where ignorance is called "keeping it real" and intelligence is called "selling out". I know because I lived that experience......



I agree with Yemaya with us buying into what the hell conservatives say. Until they start to demonstrate policy that has tangible goals and outcomes, they are feeding black folks Bs like we're some dumbazzes...and as so far as what the f-k ignorant black folks do.....i'l be damned if i carry some burden of blackness when no one else is held accountable for the evil and ignorant schit their race does.....if Tim Mc Veigh can blow up a federal building and no one else carries a stigma, i'll be damned if a few fools in entertainment and other things not really necessary to society make me feel any kind of lesser perception of myself or the rest of the race....we need to quit letting others tell us what our values and self-perception should be when they are even worse in nature themselves....


Thank you Kevin41 all that other BS about R.Kelly and Chris Brown is just a bunch of garbage. Who cares? Its irrelevent to this discussion about going for ours.


Oh I think Both of you miss my point. It's not what the rest of the world sees, although that does effect us in many ways. It's what our children start to believe is acceptable behavior. When many young people say in a poll that it was Rhiana's fault, then we have a problem. When you have young people defending R Kelly, and still buying his records and going to his concerts, we have a problem. There is little to no moral outrage for bad behavior perpetrated by those who stand in the spotlight and (like it or not) represent our people in the eyes of the rest of the world. You guys sound like Muslims who refuse to see Islamic Terrorism as their problem, if it affects how the rest of the world will treat you and your children, then it becomes your problem. The only way for us to fix ourselves is to become our own worst critics and reject everything that holds us back. Even if it's unpopular to do so.
quote:
Originally posted by Yemaya:

OK I have been itching to respond to this thread for two days now.



Oddly, I have no desire to respond to it 19
Listen ya'll. Maybe I should explain where I'm coming from. I was curious to see what the reaction from the African American community was to John Mccain seeking a pardon for Jack Johnson. I ran a search and came up with this forum. I saw it as a good opportunity to gain insight into how many Blacks view conservatives, especially when they support positive measures. The responses did surprise me a little, I thought he would get a bit more positive feed back. But that wasn't the case. It seems that there is almost a pervasive socialist attitude toward government which is popular in the African American community. Actually it's a more popular attitude in general in these times. My goal isn't to be a CONSERVATIVE troll. But rather to be an alternative voice, a contrarian if you like. Forums such as these begin to sound like echo chambers. I thought it might be fun to mix it up a bit. If I find my efforts in vain, then I'll move on. No harm no foul.

I believe strongly in my people, I know we were once more unified and had we the same opportunities back then that we have today, we would the most powerful minority in this country without a doubt. Unfortunately we've lost focus. Our kids are losing touch with our values. And when that happens a culture, especially a minority, will find it impossible to make any real progress. I'm all about what we can do for ourselves first and foremost. If the government can play a role, then great, but I don't want it to be a VITAL one. As much as this country may "owe" us for years of pain and mistreatment, we owe it to ourselves to fulfill the dreams of our ancestors and maintain our pride. I've seen what happens when a culture loses it's pride, ask the Native Americans, ask the Hawaiians. The price they paid for government "assistance" was a very high one indeed. We can do better, and must do better by ourselves.
quote:
Originally posted by joeodd:
Listen ya'll. Maybe I should explain where I'm coming from. I was curious to see what the reaction from the African American community was to John Mccain seeking a pardon for Jack Johnson. I ran a search and came up with this forum. I saw it as a good opportunity to gain insight into how many Blacks view conservatives, especially when they support positive measures. The responses did surprise me a little, I thought he would get a bit more positive feed back. But that wasn't the case. It seems that there is almost a pervasive socialist attitude toward government which is popular in the African American community. Actually it's a more popular attitude in general in these times. My goal isn't to be a CONSERVATIVE troll. But rather to be an alternative voice, a contrarian if you like. Forums such as these begin to sound like echo chambers. I thought it might be fun to mix it up a bit. If I find my efforts in vain, then I'll move on. No harm no foul.


Just a question, joeodd ....

What does somebody like you think about the fact that an overwhelming MAJORITY of your people believe that the Conservative agenda is counterproductive to the community at large? Confused

And I mean that in all sincerity because growing up, I was taught that "EVERYBODY can't be wrong"!! So that, if you think one way and (practically) EVERYBODY else thinks another, the one with the *wrong* assumption is probably you. That's what 'the old folks' used to say. Smile

So, do you think that that's not accurate?? Do you think that almost ALL Black people who do not see the Conservative way as a good/right way to go for our people are mistaken?

Also, while I can't speak for anybody else, I would venture to say that the probable reason why there wasn't more 'positive feedback' towards McCain's gesture is 1) because most Black people distrust the motivation behind someone who's Party has never made a positive gesture towards them; and 2) because ONE positive gesture does not necessarily signify a 'change of heart' and/or a sudden affection to the community as a whole.

In the hearts and minds of MOST African Americans, I think John McCain's history of things such as voting against recognition of an MLK holiday, Affirmative Action, prison reforms (and other things of importance to Black people) trump him asking for consideration of a pardon for a long-dead Black person!! Eek

I mean, why didn't he ask for a pardon for an innocently-convicted, rotting-in-jail-TODAY, Black man like Troy Davis?? Or, since this law that sent Joe Johnson to prison is still on the books why not "unveil a resolution" that would repeal the law itself??

Not that there's anything wrong with his 'good faith' attempt but ... really ... if he's looking to score points with Black folks ... or even do the right thing ... 'a Pardon for the first Black Champ' that at least two generations of Black folks have never even heard of ..... 19



I believe strongly in my people, I know we were once more unified and had we the same opportunities back then that we have today, we would the most powerful minority in this country without a doubt. Unfortunately we've lost focus. Our kids are losing touch with our values. And when that happens a culture, especially a minority, will find it impossible to make any real progress. I'm all about what we can do for ourselves first and foremost. If the government can play a role, then great, but I don't want it to be a VITAL one. As much as this country may "owe" us for years of pain and mistreatment, we owe it to ourselves to fulfill the dreams of our ancestors and maintain our pride. I've seen what happens when a culture loses it's pride, ask the Native Americans, ask the Hawaiians. The price they paid for government "assistance" was a very high one indeed. We can do better, and must do better by ourselves.[/QUOTE]
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
quote:
Originally posted by joeodd:
Listen ya'll. Maybe I should explain where I'm coming from. I was curious to see what the reaction from the African American community was to John Mccain seeking a pardon for Jack Johnson. I ran a search and came up with this forum. I saw it as a good opportunity to gain insight into how many Blacks view conservatives, especially when they support positive measures. The responses did surprise me a little, I thought he would get a bit more positive feed back. But that wasn't the case. It seems that there is almost a pervasive socialist attitude toward government which is popular in the African American community. Actually it's a more popular attitude in general in these times. My goal isn't to be a CONSERVATIVE troll. But rather to be an alternative voice, a contrarian if you like. Forums such as these begin to sound like echo chambers. I thought it might be fun to mix it up a bit. If I find my efforts in vain, then I'll move on. No harm no foul.


Just a question, joeodd ....

What does somebody like you think about the fact that an overwhelming MAJORITY of your people believe that the Conservative agenda is counterproductive to the community at large? Confused

And I mean that in all sincerity because growing up, I was taught that "EVERYBODY can't be wrong"!! So that, if you think one way and (practically) EVERYBODY else thinks another, the one with the *wrong* assumption is probably you. That's what 'the old folks' used to say. Smile

So, do you think that that's not accurate?? Do you think that almost ALL Black people who do not see the Conservative way as a good/right way to go for our people are mistaken?

Also, while I can't speak for anybody else, I would venture to say that the probable reason why there wasn't more 'positive feedback' towards McCain's gesture is 1) because most Black people distrust the motivation behind someone who's Party has never made a positive gesture towards them; and 2) because ONE positive gesture does not necessarily signify a 'change of heart' and/or a sudden affection to the community as a whole.

In the hearts and minds of MOST African Americans, I think John McCain's history of things such as voting against recognition of an MLK holiday, Affirmative Action, prison reforms (and other things of importance to Black people) trump him asking for consideration of a pardon for a long-dead Black person!! Eek

I mean, why didn't he ask for a pardon for an innocently-convicted, rotting-in-jail-TODAY, Black man like Troy Davis?? Or, since this law that sent Joe Johnson to prison is still on the books why not "unveil a resolution" that would repeal the law itself??

Not that there's anything wrong with his 'good faith' attempt but ... really ... if he's looking to score points with Black folks ... or even do the right thing ... 'a Pardon for the first Black Champ' that at least two generations of Black folks have never even heard of ..... 19



I believe strongly in my people, I know we were once more unified and had we the same opportunities back then that we have today, we would the most powerful minority in this country without a doubt. Unfortunately we've lost focus. Our kids are losing touch with our values. And when that happens a culture, especially a minority, will find it impossible to make any real progress. I'm all about what we can do for ourselves first and foremost. If the government can play a role, then great, but I don't want it to be a VITAL one. As much as this country may "owe" us for years of pain and mistreatment, we owe it to ourselves to fulfill the dreams of our ancestors and maintain our pride. I've seen what happens when a culture loses it's pride, ask the Native Americans, ask the Hawaiians. The price they paid for government "assistance" was a very high one indeed. We can do better, and must do better by ourselves.
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Everybody can't be wrong? So when the Germans voted Hitler into power, they were right? When the German government persecuted innocent Jews, with the blessing of the people, they were right? When most Americans believed in Slavery and Segregation, they were right? Sometimes you have to step outside of your comfort zone and listen to other perspectives. I've have the pleasure of working and socializing with conservatives, and ya know what? Aside from their strange taste in music, they can be pretty cool to talk to. I don't demonize ideas, but I will respectfully challenge them. I don't profess to be a conservative either, I think of myself as independent. Maybe even a "Southpark Conservative", if I were to be called conservative. I agree with things that make sense to me, and disagree with things that don't. I like to step back and try to see the big picture, especially when the crowd seems to blindly rush toward one direction or the other.

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