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"The revolution will be televised", well-when does it start, and where do people sign up?

MBM, I really love your site and what you are doing. I am not trying to single you out, or start any problems. One thing I've noticed is that most online communities favor topics of disagreement rather than unification.

I think promoting critical dialogue is important, but some topics should strive to find solutions as well. (not just opinion debunking and bashing)
Hopefully you haven't become defensive, and started searching for every iota of unifying topics.

How about posts promoting scheduled live chat events with a topic to discuss.

I feel like your site is more, "Negro, you don't know this, thats whats wrong with Americas!", instead of "Negros, this is what you need to know, and this is what we need to do about it." But, this is the community you designed.

Hopefully people will see this community as more than just a place for opinion defending and complaining by articulate black people. At the end of the day, MBM may believe in Christ, HeruStar maybe in Amen, Ngmagite in Allah, and Fine in the Virgin Mary, WHO KNOWS, at the end of the day there is white man who wants to knock off all of yall.
(DIVIDE AND CONQUER)

Hopefully their is more UNIFICATION and knowledge sharing from posters. Wink
Original Post
Texas Star:

UNITITY alone is not what we Black folks need.

The dominant Black Quasi-Socialist Progressive Fundamentalist wants UNITY with ALL OTHERS dropping what they believe and rallying around their flag. They alone know all about Black folks and everyone else is wrong.


I WANT UNITY BEHIND OBJECTIVES AND THEN METHODS TO ACHEIVE THEM THAT ARE PROVEN TO WORK. Prove that what you preach is EFFECTIVE and I will be the biggest cheerleader.

Instead we have folks who run off of the notions of POPULARITY of their believes among the masses. They don't have the PROOF of the effectiveness just the POPULARITY.

There is nothing wrong with debate.

I would like to see all combatants submit to a FRAMEWORK.

We can get behind what YOU support BUT put a TIME FRAME ON IT. If after a certain period of time of trying it YOU WAY if things have not changed WE MUST ABANDON THE FAILED METHODOLOGY and try something that is more EFFECTIVE.

It makes sense to try things that work elsewhere. This is called "Best Practices".

FUNDAMENTALISM is the biggest problem that we have in Black America. No amount of evidence of the GROSS FAILURE of what they believe is going to be enough to change their mind into attempting something else.

They practice the function Y = -1 x X where they are Y and their enemy is X. They will be diametrically opposed to the position of their enemy SIMPLY BECAUSE their enemy supports a certain postion.

Ask MBM about school choice and school vouchers despite the failing public schools of today and you will understand what I am saying.
The above post is why online communities like this are frequently distracted from unifying dialogue.

Don't look at MBM... look at the shyt-stirrers and misfits who are hell bent on telling other Black folks that the white people way is the only way to go. While it goes without saying that we don't always agree, for the most part, we can disagree without losing sight of our commonalities.

It's people like the above who are the malevolent, disruptive sources in online communities, and there can be no disagreement without derogatory conjecture and personal enmity. They desperately want to be accepted and valued, all the while rejecting and devaluing the ethnicity to which they claim membership.
Texas Star, I see your point and sympathize. But unfortunately unity isn't easy to come by. I believe that what happens here - the clash between ideas - can lead to greater understanding. It at least leads to understanding that an issue isn't cut and dried. I think I've learned a LOT here even from people I don't agree with and sometimes from just reading threads without contributing. The back and forth makes me check myself and my facts. I think even Constructive Feedback - for all his bluster - learns a few things.

IMO Unity ain't cheap. Before you can have unity you need to hash stuff out, have conflict, and exchange a diversity of views.
Unity comes from understanding. But agreement is not a requirement of understanding or unity. Many of the issues tackled here are serious and envoke passion in people. And these are not weak willed people on this forum, so when the sparks fly they tend to fly high.

But again, I don't think that shows a lack unity. Just the fact that we come here to learn, teach, discuss, debate, (and occasionally sling shit at each other Big Grin) I believe shows a profound sense of unity. We argue about these issues because these issues matter to us. That's what unites us.
Texas Star,

I see your point too. And I have to give a bit tfro to what Honest Brother said as well. Different points of view can be just as much a good thing as a bad one. Smile

I don't think you'll find what you're looking for here in this particular forum, but I think in the other forums, such as Our Lives or the Business or the Den or the Spot or Relationship forums you find more collaberation and coming together and helping on a variety of different subjects. Perhaps you could try promoting more harmony by subject matter.

I think maybe a separate politics forum might be a place to share information and and try to unite on a poliical level especially with critical elections coming up next year. But, I also think we should utilize some of the forums that we already have a little bit more too, such as the Health and Business sections.

Perhaps you could start there. Smile
I don't know why some of you are so hell bent on defending the right to debate.. I didn't deny the need for that at any point in my post. I just pondered why there is an overwhelming amount of pitting us against each other, and a lack of unification. I suggested bringing us together LIVE to discuss topics. That is a way to bring us TOGETHER to chat. Perhaps not unifying us on a topic, but bringing us together as a COMMUNITY.

We are all very different, and its great to discuss our differences. At the same time, there is a common thread among us. Im looking for Unification as an online community.
I really like this community, but it seems like if you don't have something to get riled up and defensive about, there is no point in posting.

Que Pappa @ Nmaginate
I mean sometimes I think this dudes pressure has got to be up. Either your pressure is up, or you have an enormous amount of time and blunts handy.

You are really out there, and I love it. How about tomorrow at 8 Central everyone available log on to chit chat with Nmaginate. LIVE-All about Nmaginate.

Up to the challenge? A little Wednesday night all about Nmaginate? ; )

MBM, hook it up, can this forum do chat sessions?
quote:
Originally posted by Texas Star:
I don't know why some of you are so hell bent on defending the right to debate. I just pondered why there is an overwhelming amount of pitting us against each other, and a lack of unification.


Um, it may have something to do with the fact that you are in the Issues/Politics forum? Politics, much like religion and racial matters are very controversial subjects. You will find people everywhere, not just Blacks in particular, who are divided on these issues. Therefore, trying to get members on the board to reach some sort of unified concensus is unrealistic, in my opinion. However, I think what you are noticing, as a new member, is an ongoing, rather hostile and verbally explicit debate that has been going on between several members in this board. Unfortunately, I don't think there is much that you can do about this. You cannot control how people form their opinions, and you cannot control how people react to others' opinions.

I, for example, was on a date with a guy this past weekend, and we decided to eat at a Thai (Asian) Restaurant. After watching this Asian waitress, who spoke very little English, bust her ass waiting on folks in the restaurant, this is what my date had to say, "Asian people WORK for their money. They don't come to this country expecting handouts, unlike Black people. Asian people were colonized by Whites too, but you don't see them complaining about Slavery. This is the 21st century, and Black people simply cannot afford to be complaining about something that happened to them 500 years ago, not in the 21st century. We have lost our sense of work ethic, and we need to stop waiting for people's sympathy."

Now, while he was talking, I imagined myself taking both of my hands and squeezing his head into my fist as tight as I could until it popped, because not only was he ignorant, but he had consequently adopted a very negative view of Black people in general, depsite the fact that both he and I are well educated and live in affluent Black communities. This is why we will never see the idealized "unification" that you are proposing. Everyone, including Blacks, has DIFFERENT views about how Blacks are progressing and what we should be doing to progress further.
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TEXAS, take your queque from BLACK VIKING...

First, you have to know what the hell UNITY is before you can talk about the lack of it.

UNITY is not UNISON. Don't get it twisted.
Know what the hell you're talking about and what it entails.

That's your "chat" for today.

UNITY = a totality of related parts : an entity that is a complex or systematic whole

Echoing Black Viking and HB, UNITY ain't simple. By definition, it's COMPLEXED. And, apparently, this is an issue of you not understanding or not appreciating simple, complexities.

But, anyway... UNITY FOR WHAT? FOR WHAT PURPOSE? Where is your "this is what we need to do about it"... about something in particular? What in particular are you talking about?

UNITY / UNISON.
quote:
Originally posted by Isome:
The above post is why online communities like this are frequently distracted from unifying dialogue.

Don't look at MBM... look at the shyt-stirrers and misfits who are hell bent on telling other Black folks that the white people way is the only way to go. While it goes without saying that we don't always agree, for the most part, we can disagree without losing sight of our commonalities.

It's people like the above who are the malevolent, disruptive sources in online communities, and there can be no disagreement without derogatory conjecture and personal enmity. They desperately want to be accepted and valued, all the while rejecting and devaluing the ethnicity to which they claim membership.


Isome:

Please detail the ERRORS in my post that you refer to INSTEAD of the points that YOU disagree with? Are they "wrong" because YOU disagree with them or are they "wrong" in absolute terms?

It is interesting that when AMERICA talked about "unifying behind the flag" after the 9/11 attacks SOME PEOPLE like Al Sharpton wisely saw the consequences of doing so. (another positive comment about a Black person, HB).

He saw the call for UNITY as a call to put aside all of his concerns that were important to him and to focus upon an EXTERNAL ENEMY as a UNIFYING FORCE.

He didn't "cheaply" BUY that particular call for "unity" by the dominant power of the country. I DON'T BY the call for "Unity" by the dominate ideology that has the Black community hi-jacked.


Again - If you want me to UNIFY with you then how about establishing a dEMOCRATIC FRAMEWORK? Where is the process for conflict resolution and for SIFTING THROUGH A NUMBER OF METHODS TO REACH OUR COMMON GOALS, DISPOSING OF THE ONE'S THAT DON'T WORK AS WE FIND THE ONE'S THAT DO WORK?

I find it interesting that many of you attempt to dismiss the processes that work for governments and for corporations as you attempt to apply it to a "race of people". The fact is that it is THE PROCESS that a collection of people adopt that have them to rise higher than the next group of people who don't have a process to fortify and intensify their efforts. This is the only way you "unify" people into working for the same goal.

The PROCESS will keep those in the minority from revolting because they know that they can engage THE PROCESS to affect change over time.

In the end Isome - I believe that you are a rebel against the system that contains you but YOU don't like when people "rebell" against YOU and your ideas.
quote:
If you want me to UNIFY with you then how about establishing a dEMOCRATIC FRAMEWORK?
You don't believe in democracy, PUNK!!

There is no way you can talk about the Tyranny of the Majority and be so selective and DEFERENTIAL in your application of the principle... if you believed in democracy.

And you definitely don't respect any type of process or any real MEASURING OF EFFECTIVENESS, etc., etc. You just want what you call "Affirmative Action", a set-aside, for your views that eliminate you from having to demonstrate how your ideas are logical, accurate, responsible, legitimate, authentic or anything close to EFFECTIVE. You are RHETORIC MAN, you think rhetoric can carry your views and not actual sound, solid, reasoned substance.
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:

I, for example, was on a date with a guy this past weekend, and we decided to eat at a Thai (Asian) Restaurant. After watching this Asian waitress, who spoke very little English, bust her ass waiting on folks in the restaurant, this is what my date had to say, "Asian people WORK for their money. They don't come to this country expecting handouts, unlike Black people. Asian people were colonized by Whites too, but you don't see them complaining about Slavery. This is the 21st century, and Black people simply cannot afford to be complaining about something that happened to them 500 years ago, not in the 21st century. We have lost our sense of work ethic, and we need to stop waiting for people's sympathy."


WHAT THE HECK WERE YOU DOING ON A DATE WITH CONSTRUCTIVE FEEDBACK????? Confused Confused Confused

It serves you right girl!! lol bsm
quote:
And you definitely don't respect any type of process or any real MEASURING OF EFFECTIVENESS, etc., etc. You just want what you call "Affirmative Action", a set-aside, for your views that eliminate you from having to demonstrate how your ideas are logical, accurate, responsible, legitimate, authentic or anything close to EFFECTIVE.



Little Fella:

I have "power" and influence over myself and my family. I have no job as a "Civil Rights Actor-vist", standing in front of a crowd, telling Black folks how damaged we are as a people. You can judge me on that which I have influence over in my domain.

I just signed up for Junior Acheivement. I will have the opportunity to get in front of young people and "indoctrinate them" toward my way of thinking.

IF my bit of influence upon this kids, mixed in with the greater influence of their parents and their general environment comes out to be a net NEGATIVE then you can say all that you have said about me.

Until then you need to apply your favorite words to yourself - STFU.
quote:
Asian people were colonized by Whites too, but you don't see them complaining about Slavery. This is the 21st century, and Black people simply cannot afford to be complaining about something that happened to them 500 years ago, not in the 21st century. We have lost our sense of work ethic, and we need to stop waiting for people's sympathy



Rowe:

I don't have the same views as your date.

It is not about "working hard". PLENTY of people "work hard".

For me it is about CULTURE and the PROCESS for achieving these cultural directives.

Many Asian families have the concept of "Shame upon the family". This "pressure" is put upon the kids to have them act in line with some sort of principles and dignity as they conduct their lives. SURELY all of them do not abide by this all of the time but atleast it can serve as a course correction over the long run.

Compare that against the common theme of REBELLION that runs rampid among the popular culture that many (NOT ALL) Black kids grow up in. What is right is now wrong. If you are a "SNITCH" you have broken some code. This benefits THE CRIMINALS in our community and suppresses the INNOCENT people attempting to live in peace and safety.

Whenever WE DO ATTEMPT A HOMEGROWN SOLUTION TO ADDRESS PROBLEMS ACTED OUT BY BLACK FOLKS you know that one word of criticism by a WHITE PERSON will have the entire focus of the conversation shift from what WE NEED TO DO AS A PEOPLE over to a double barrel assault as to how WHITE FOLKS ARE DOING THE VERY SAME THING AND YET SEEM TO GET AWAY WITH IT. What does THIS POINT have to do WITH BLACK PEOPLE AND OUR SENSES OF IF SOMETHING IS RIGHT OR WRONG? If your adversary wishes to wallow in the mud as you stand up out of it - you clean yourself off while he remains muddy.

As the WORLD changes and other powers begin to stand tall the current dichotomy of White America and Black America will no doubt be broken. In America we now have the Hispanic question. Internationally we have the issue of what China is doing to us with it's growing economic power.

It is time NOW to put away the fundamentalism and focus on a PROCESS that will produce results.
quote:
Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:

It is time NOW to put away the fundamentalism and focus on a PROCESS that will produce results.


As I've said many times over, there are thousands of African Americans who are 'doing their thing' in this country - achieving at the highest levels and acting in a way that is unencumbered by the ills that you are fixated on. It's a shame that this part of our community is apparently out of your view.
quote:
Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:

Again - If you want me to UNIFY with you then how about establishing a dEMOCRATIC FRAMEWORK? Where is the process for conflict resolution and for SIFTING THROUGH A NUMBER OF METHODS TO REACH OUR COMMON GOALS, DISPOSING OF THE ONE'S THAT DON'T WORK AS WE FIND THE ONE'S THAT DO WORK?


What gave you the nutty idea that anyone here besides Texas Star wants to unify with you?

You post without thoroughly reading the post you're responding to.

You're the one in the midst of people with whom you express nothing but contempt... obviously you're the one desperate for validation and unification.
quote:
Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:
Compare that against the common theme of REBELLION that runs rampid among the popular culture that many (NOT ALL) Black kids grow up in. What is right is now wrong. If you are a "SNITCH" you have broken some code. This benefits THE CRIMINALS in our community and suppresses the INNOCENT people attempting to live in peace and safety.


Just out of curiosity, do you ever have anything good to say about the black community? You seem to do alot of nitpicking in order to hold the worst of us up as a poster child for blacks everywhere. The above statement is completely false. Not "snitching" is a criminal behaviour, not a black behaviour. You find it in all criminal orginizations, from petty street gangs all the way to international syndicates. And, I shouldn't have to add, all races and cultures.

quote:
Whenever WE DO ATTEMPT A HOMEGROWN SOLUTION TO ADDRESS PROBLEMS ACTED OUT BY BLACK FOLKS you know that one word of criticism by a WHITE PERSON will have the entire focus of the conversation shift from what WE NEED TO DO AS A PEOPLE over to a double barrel assault as to how WHITE FOLKS ARE DOING THE VERY SAME THING AND YET SEEM TO GET AWAY WITH IT.


Do actually know anyone who does that? We all know that white people get away with things that we can't. I don't know anyone who beats that dead horse. I do, however, know people who use it as a reason to be better than the white people around them that seem to get away with everything.

It seems to me that you're a little unclear on your context. You sound as if you can't find any positive examples. If that's the case, I think your just not looking hard enough.
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:

I, for example, was on a date with a guy this past weekend, and we decided to eat at a Thai (Asian) Restaurant. After watching this Asian waitress, who spoke very little English, bust her ass waiting on folks in the restaurant, this is what my date had to say, "Asian people WORK for their money. They don't come to this country expecting handouts, unlike Black people. Asian people were colonized by Whites too, but you don't see them complaining about Slavery. This is the 21st century, and Black people simply cannot afford to be complaining about something that happened to them 500 years ago, not in the 21st century. We have lost our sense of work ethic, and we need to stop waiting for people's sympathy."


WHAT THE HECK WERE YOU DOING ON A DATE WITH CONSTRUCTIVE FEEDBACK????? Confused Confused Confused

It serves you right girl!! lol bsm


laugh

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