Skip to main content

Is the problem in African America that we need more/different leaders, or do we really need more followers? There seem to be plenty of people who would put themselves forward as leaders - from political leaders, to religous leaders, to traditional civil rights leaders. Is the problem that we don't have "the leader", or that black folks just need to pick a path and wholeheartedly support it? If someone did emerge now as our "messiah", as in times of old, would we also just "crucify him/her?

© MBM

Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

quote:
Originally posted by umbrarchist:
Look at what happened to King and Mandella. In the ideal situation no White person on the planet should know who the top Black leaders are. But our concept of leadership is a lot of loud mouthed showing off nonsense. Black people are not into totally underground stealth warfare based on cold calculation.

See what the "other half" is doing:

http://www.woodmann.com/fravia/realicra.htm

umbrarchist
Love the bolded parts.....
reminds me of the movie...."The Spook That Beside the Door"....

However, I think all of the above mentioned are needed in some form....

Planning needs to take place behind scenes..... everyone else in the spotlight take their places..... for, against, neutral.... all have a role to play.....

the problem is not the role it is the script...

By the way ...... I really like the web link.....

Subtlety is an art form.........

Wink

Peace,
Virtue
In order for a leader to emerge, there has to be a major issue that can galvanize the mass of people. The reason we don't identify as strongly around a "leader" today as our elders did during the days of King and X is that there isn't as much perceived need for one. There is no major issue anymore that most black Americans see as requiring the kind of social triage that we saw in the Montgomery Bus Boycott. The movement created these leaders.

However, from the example of the student movement in New Orleans, it's possible that a new leader or two may soon be emerging in response to Katrina.
quote:
In order for a leader to emerge, there has to be a major issue that can galvanize the mass of people. The reason we don't identify as strongly around a "leader" today as our elders did during the days of King and X is that there isn't as much perceived need for one.


The reason we have so many problems now is because the people in the 60s were galvanized instead of being rational. If there had been no march on Washington, but instead King had been able to get Black churches to start teaching kids accounting the net result would be better today.

Malcolm X called it the Farce on Washington.

umbra
Malcolm X called it the Farce on Washington.---umbrarchist

Agreement among leaders was clearly not the case. So...were 'X' devotees among the marchers?

Malcolm's was an evolving voice. It's ultimate form may, or may not have included religion.

Stangely, King's was also an evolving voice. It referenced religion, but did not require religion of its 'followers'.

There is no blatant issues today.

Katrina will become more and more nebulous with time.

There is no sustaining action.

The continuing systemic assault on African America is the refusal to afford 'equal protection under the law'.

That assualt is so subtle it is below the (societal)perception level of the average American of unknown African ancestry.

And...outside of the realm of ocncern for all other Americans of African ancestry.

The definition of 'the masses' is therefore, also, becoming ever more nebulous.

The leadership we seek in therefore within ourselves.

Who else can you depend on?

That's scary.


PEACE

Jim Chester
quote:
Originally posted by umbrarchist:
quote:
In order for a leader to emerge, there has to be a major issue that can galvanize the mass of people. The reason we don't identify as strongly around a "leader" today as our elders did during the days of King and X is that there isn't as much perceived need for one.


The reason we have so many problems now is because the people in the 60s were galvanized instead of being rational. If there had been no march on Washington, but instead King had been able to get Black churches to start teaching kids accounting the net result would be better today.

Malcolm X called it the Farce on Washington.

umbra


I have strong doubts that he would have been as successful in that attempt. In the face of Jim Crow segregation, it would have been a tough sell to instill the same passion for learning accounting as it was for demanding the basic human freedoms under the law.
quote:
it would have been a tough sell to instill the same passion for learning accounting as it was for demanding the basic human freedoms under the law.


I conceed it would have been a tough sell, but what FREEDOMS did the march on Washington get? It was a nice show and people make a big deal of it today but what were the tangible results? If 20% of Black kids could have understood to concentrate on NET WORTH every year since 1963 how much difference would that make in our economic condition today?

Culture is a way of thinking. Solving our problems will ultimately require a change of culture. Since you don't hear the White people saying accounting should be mandatory for their kids it can't be called acting White. lol

However the thought of the White reaction to Blacks demanding accounting for all Black kids cracks me up. lol

umbrarchist
quote:
'...what FREEDOMS did the march on Washington get?
---umbrarchist

I would like to submit the Civil Rights Act of 1964, AND the Voting Rights Act of 1965, the shortcoming of the later notwithstanding.

If 20% of Black kids could have understood to concentrate on NET WORTH every year since 1963 how much difference would that make in our economic condition today?---umbrarchist

Economic awareness is very important and the point is well-taken.

The same argument is applicable to a long list of issues.

I would submit self-determined identity be put a the head of that list.

It would makd all the other items that follow must easier to achieve.


PEACE

Jim Chester
quote:
Civil Rights Act of 1964, AND the Voting Rights Act of 1965, the shortcoming of the later notwithstanding.


Well some of the palefaces are saying that the 2000 and 2004 elections were stolen. I voted against Bush twice. How much good did it do?

I understood planned obsolescence was going on in cars decades ago and never bought a new car so didn't lose much on depreciation over the years. I just sold my apartment building last year and am deciding what to do next. Wondering if there is going to be a drop in housing prices. Understanding financial matters has had more effect on the quality of my life than voting. I think the emphasis on politics is misplaced.

umbra
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
If someone did emerge now as our "messiah", as in times of old, would we also just "crucify him/her?


I attend friends' family reunions were there are still huge debates over how crappy and messed up MLK was. How crappy and messed up X was. LOL.

I don't think people really became messiahs until they are six feet under.

They spark debate when they are alive and then get a lot more sympathy and kudos after death.

People who complain about a lack of leadership should feel like they are chastising themselves. Lead yourself. Aid your community.

For every guy with a mic there are thousands of no name leaders.
quote:
I voted against Bush twice. How much good did it do?
---umbrarchist

I think the emphasis on politics is misplaced.---umbrarchist

You ask for examples. I gave you examples.

Now, apparently, you want examples that you like.

Is your contention that the things corrected by the Civil Rights Act of 1964, and the Voting Rights Act of 1965 were better left alone?

And... that the pursuit of economic education instead would have been the better course?

I don't think that is a better alternative for African America.

Speaking pragmatically, the education you advocate is not advanced for an entire societal group by any sociological school of thought.

Why do you insist African Americanss choose a course that does not show any proof of successful group application?

Economy-based decisions are typically made by individuals....like you...and me.

Economics is a specialty in education and in life.

The remedy for African America, as with any other ethnicity must be broader.


PEACE

Jim Chester
I guess what I meant by the original post is that it almost doesn't make a difference what leader we follow or direction we move in - if we could ever get African America - en masse - to support anything, that would be an amazing task. We are always - seemingly - questioning/doubting/criticizing (hatin'?) our leaders, maybe we should just shut up and follow someone, anyone (within reason). Confused

We like to talk about how we have no real leaders anymore, again, maybe we just don't have any followers.
That seems a bit unreasonable. You want the followers to come together and then search for something, anything to follow? The message has to be there first. There has to be something for us to unite for or against or around. You can't just put everyone in a room and then say "Okay folks, now that we're all here, let's pick something to be about." Confused

Maybe someone with some vision and intelligence and charisma should step up to the plate instead of waiting to be plucked from obscurity by a group of salivating followers. Isn't that the whole point of being a leader, to take the damn reins and be motivated and get people on your side and push your agenda and generally be on fire?! If you can't even get people motivated about what you have to say, then you need to fall right back in with the crowd because I don't know what kind of political luck you think you'll have. I'm not going to mindlessly fall in line like a droid for the sake of (faux) unity. nono
quote:
Speaking pragmatically, the education you advocate is not advanced for an entire societal group by any sociological school of thought.

Why do you insist African Americanss choose a course that does not show any proof of successful group application?

Economy-based decisions are typically made by individuals....like you...and me.

Economics is a specialty in education and in life.


How many people must make economic decisions? A child going into a candy store and deciding which candy to buy is making an economic decision. An adult going into an automobile show room and deciding which car to buy is making an economic decision. Millions of people spend money but you say accounting education shouldn't be mandatory because it has never been done? DUH!

The entire economics profession hardly talks about depreciation to the public and don't even talk among themselves about how much consumers loose on depreciation of automobiles among themselves, as far as I can tell. Our economic theory depends on consumers being dumber than economists. I am suggesting a possible solution to our problems is correcting that situation permanently. True, it has never been tried. Before 1969, landing on the moon hadn't been tried either.

The computer technology we are using now is one of the side effects of the space program. The government financed the development of microelectronics because they had to have a small, light, reliable computer to send to the moon.

umbrarchist

ps - most kids get 4 years of English in high school. Drop one year of English and stick in one year of accounting/economics. Don't water it down like schools tend to do and fill it with idiotic busywork.

http://www.rea.com/display_prod.cfm?p=0878911758&g=0878911758

This book has a spreadsheet listing depreciation on the front cover. I have never seen that before.
most kids get 4 years of English in high school. Drop one year of English and stick in one year of accounting/economics. Don't water it down like schools tend to do and fill it with idiotic busywork---umbrarchist

I can agree with this.

Where would you put it? In what course?

It's not likely to work as an 'across the board'[ requirement for graduation.

The fact that it is not included now is an indication that it information the system does not want to be generally available to the masses.

To get it to our children, the information will have to offered universally.

How do you suggest this be made to happen?


PEACE

Jim Chester
quote:
Originally posted by Frenchy:

That seems a bit unreasonable. You want the followers to come together and then search for something, anything to follow? The message has to be there first. There has to be something for us to unite for or against or around. You can't just put everyone in a room and then say "Okay folks, now that we're all here, let's pick something to be about." Confused

Maybe someone with some vision and intelligence and charisma should step up to the plate instead of waiting to be plucked from obscurity by a group of salivating followers. Isn't that the whole point of being a leader, to take the damn reins and be motivated and get people on your side and push your agenda and generally be on fire?! If you can't even get people motivated about what you have to say, then you need to fall right back in with the crowd because I don't know what kind of political luck you think you'll have. I'm not going to mindlessly fall in line like a droid for the sake of (faux) unity. nono


But that's my point. We are so full of haterade that we would rather throw stones than follow someone else. There is no shortage of leadership. Take your pick - from religious leaders to political to whatever. Al Sharpton stepped up - we didn't support him. What's up with Barack? How about Cornel West? Michael Eric Dyson? Jesse is still on the scene. What about T.D. Jakes? What about Eddie Long here in Atlanta (he just bought a $600,000 Bentley - he must be doing something right!).

There are plenty of leaders. We need to follow better. There will be NO MLK or MX. They weren't created until their death. Let's choose a thoughtful forward-thinking person and suport, suport, suport.

We'll go lots further than how we're doing now.
Last edited {1}
quote:
There are plenty of leaders. We need to follow better. There will be MLK or MX. They weren't created until their death. Let's choose a thoughtful forward-thinking person and suport, suport, suport.

We'll go lots further than how we're doing now.


I feel ya, MBM. It is so much easier to sit back and throw rocks than lace up one's boots and actual do something, including following.

It would seem that following, or even hearing the message of, a "Leader" would be so much easier, if the "Leader" did not have to spend so much of his/her energy, defending his/her position, not from those that want to hear and follow; but from those whose sole purpose is to denigrate that leader's message. [And, usually does so without a competing alternative]

Whereas, we know, live and accept that there are multiple tactics and solutions for addressing the many problems in our daily lives; apparently, when it comes to addressing problems in our community, there is necessarily one best solution that must be determined, not through consensus, but rather through the absolute surrender of all competing thought, before we can move forward. Frown

The other man has taught us well. bang

Add Reply

Post
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×