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...and I just found out Roll Eyes

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http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/813884/posts?page=11

Loose Lips Sink Ships
Posted: December 24, 2002
3:30 p.m. Eastern
© 2002 Universal Press Syndicate

Trent Lott, call your office: Apparently some parts of American history can be sanitized and forgotten. Earlier this week, President George Bush issued a formal White House proclamation celebrating Kwanzaa.

Sounding like a "Saturday Night Live" send-up, Bush praised the "seven principles" of Kwanzaa, "known as Nguzo Saba," and discussed the "early harvest gatherings called 'matunda ya kwanza,' or first fruits." He included the usual claptrap about how Kwanzaa celebrates "traditional African values" and "uniting people of diverse backgrounds and beliefs."

It is a fact that Kwanzaa was invented in 1966 by a black radical FBI stooge, Ron Karenga, aka Dr. Maulana Karenga. Karenga was a founder of United Slaves, a violent nationalist rival to the Black Panthers and a dupe of the FBI.

In what was probably ultimately a foolish gamble, during the madness of the '60s, the FBI encouraged the most extreme black nationalist organizations in order to discredit and split the left. The more preposterous the organization, the better. Karenga's United Slaves was perfect. In the annals of the American '60s, Karenga was the Father Gapon, stooge of the czarist police.

Despite modern perceptions that blend all the black activists of the '60s, the Black Panthers did not hate whites. They did not seek armed revolution. Those were the precepts of Karenga's United Slaves. United Slaves were proto-fascists, walking around in dashikis, blowing away Black Panthers and adopting invented "African" names. (That was a big help to the black community: How many boys named "Jamal" currently sit on death row?)

Whether Karenga was a willing dupe, or just a dupe, remains unclear. Curiously, in a 1995 interview with Ethnic NewsWatch, Karenga matter-of-factly explained that the forces out to get O.J. Simpson for the "framed" murder of two whites included: "the FBI, the CIA, the State Department, Interpol, the Chicago Police Department" and so on. (He further noted that "the evidence was not strong enough to prohibit or eliminate unreasonable doubt" – an interesting standard of proof.) Karenga should know about FBI infiltration.

In the category of the-gentleman-doth-protest-too-much, back in the '70s, Karenga was quick to criticize rumors that black radicals were government-supported. When Nigerian newspapers claimed that some American black radicals were CIA operatives, Karenga leapt in to denounce the idea publicly, saying, "Africans must stop generalizing about the loyalties and motives of Afro-Americans, including the widespread suspicion of black Americans being CIA agents."

By now, there is no question that the FBI fueled the bloody rivalry between the Panthers and United Slaves. In one barbarous outburst, Karenga's United Slaves shot Black Panther Al "Bunchy" Carter on the UCLA campus. Karenga himself served time, a useful stepping-stone for his current position as a black studies professor at California State University at Long Beach.

Kwanzaa itself is a lunatic blend of schmaltzy '60s rhetoric, black racism and Marxism. Indeed, the seven "principles" of Kwanzaa praise collectivism in every possible arena of life – economics, work, personality, even litter removal. ("Kuumba: Everyone should strive to improve the community and make it more beautiful.") It takes a village to raise a police snitch.

When Karenga was asked to distinguish Kawaida, the philosophy underlying Kwanzaa, from "classical Marxism," he essentially explained that under Kawaida, we also hate whites. While taking the "best of" – I'm not making this up – "early Chinese and Cuban socialism," Kawaida practitioners believe one's racial identity "determines life conditions, life chances and self-understanding." There's an inclusive philosophy for you.

Coincidentally, the seven principles of Kwanzaa are the very same seven principles of the Symbionese Liberation Army, another charming invention of the Least-Great Generation. In 1974, Patricia Hearst, kidnap victim-cum-SLA revolutionary, posed next to the banner of her alleged captors, a seven-headed cobra. Each snake head stood for one of the SLA's revolutionary principles: Umojo, Kujichagulia, Ujima, Ujamaa, Nia, Kuumba and Imani – precisely the seven "principles" of Kwanzaa.

With his Kwanzaa greetings, President Bush is saluting the intellectual sibling of the Symbionese Liberation Army, killer of housewives and police. He is saluting the founder of United Slaves, who were such lunatics that they shot Panthers for not being sufficiently insane – all with the FBI as their covert ally. It's as if David Duke invented a holiday called "Anglica," and the president of the United States issued a presidential proclamation honoring the synthetic holiday. People might well stand up and take notice if that happened.

Kwanzaa was the result of a '60s psychosis grafted onto black community. Liberals have become so mesmerized by multicultural nonsense that they have forgotten the real history of Kwanzaa and United Slaves – the violence, the Marxism, the insanity. Most absurdly, for leftists anyway, is that they have forgotten the FBI's tacit encouragement of this murderous black nationalist cult founded by the father of Kwanzaa.

Now the "holiday" concocted by an FBI dupe is honored in a presidential proclamation calling it a "holiday that promotes mutual understanding." A movement that started approximately 2,000 years before Kwanzaa leaps well beyond merely "promot(ing) mutual understanding" to say we are all equal before God. It is so inclusive, people get mad at it. That movement is also celebrated this week. But the Christian leaders at the forefront of the abolitionist and civil rights movements have been washed down the memory hole.

11 posted on 12/29/2002 2:42:35 PM PST by blabs

Always Remember that: "Anytime We As A People Are Not Having Our WaySomeone Else Is Having Theirs...And It's Never To Our Advantage."

Original Post

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Good things are often found in murky waters.

If Karenga was an F.B.I. snitch, then kill the messenger, not the message, if he was not, then don't kill the messenger (or the message).

Besides, whether introduced to America by Karenga or not, these principles were of African origin for centuries before he knew they existed, therefore, it does not matter who the messenger is, but what the message is.
art_gurl--I found the principles lacking in substance back in 1995 and gave up practicing this belief system.

Thank you, Fagunwa--I actually don't believe alot of what I read, but with particular interest I over heard a guest on Bev Smith's Nighttime Show discussing Dr. Karenga's association with the FBI. I had never heard this information before so I decided to do my own search for validation and viola' I came across this article as well as much more on him and previous ties with a group called "Black Slaves"...

As long as I've listened to Bev's Show the information has never been wrong or let me down. [It was on her show that I first heard Dick Gregory talking about the 7 missing presidents. I decided to go to his site and I am glad I did!]

The fact that Bush backs Karenga is scary. I don't even trust Dubya's shadow much less a verbal confirmation about a black event or organization.

sunnubian--The only thing I find in murky water when I look is more murky things floating around in it.

Every 'adult' here that takes time to read the post can decide for themselves whether or not they want to endorse this practice. Shooting messengers and messages is irrelevant here, getting at the truth 'should' be the focus. I firmly believe the blaq collective chews and swallows too much untruth as it is now, before doing a through look see on what is truth-fact or fable-fairytale.

When I discovered that Kwanazaa closely resembled Xmas my 'own' personal decision was final.

--"You take the blue pill, the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. Remember...all I'm offering is the truth, nothing more." ~ Morpheus ~ " The Matrix"--
quote:
When I discovered that Kwanazaa closely resembled Xmas...

Roll Eyes

I guess that's why there are certain Christians who are against Kwanzaa and, yes, Christmas has always had Seven Principles with thought, reflection and engagement practiced for Seven Days. You know, exact same type of observances... Roll Eyes

quote:
The fact that Bush backs Karenga is scary.
Fold up your Kool-Aid stand. The day that makes any sound logical sense will be the day your Kool-Aid takes off like Starbucks.

In other words, you went out of business... 3 years ago.

quote:
I came across this article as well as much more on him and previous ties with a group called "Black Slaves"...
Get your facts straight. Info. about the US - United Slaves - organization is readily available. Hell, even Michael Lofton is more reliable with information. (See his closing remarks on my thread.)

Karenga himself still speaks about the things (his ideas, conclusions he/they came to, his intellectual foundation so to speak) that grew out of US in its formative years.

Now, was it scary when Ronald Reagan "backed" the King Holiday? I mean, if that's the measure you're using. Some weak Guilt By Association type of ILL-logic -- ill-conceived, ill-fated and ill-at-ease with logic and common sense.

In other words, there are other things that explain occurrences and your jump-to-crazy-conclusion hysteria, like so many times, is hardly warranted here, if it ever was anywhere else.
LOL--I am not Alice in Wonderland nor Sally Sausage Head, Mr. Nmaginate.

...I can spit venom with the best of u...
but I chose not to. Negative energy is wasteful and depletes my positive energy source...I stopped those like you who try to steal/kill my joy--years ago....!

Did you now about Dr. Karenga's association with the FBI?
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quote:
Originally posted by Nmaginate:
quote:
Did you now about Dr. Karenga's association with the FBI?
Fine, address things relevant in my posts when you call yourself responding. And please back away from the False Consensus - i.e. the belief that because you are or were ignorant of information, in this case info. pertain to Karenga, that somehow your state of ignorance and level of ignorance was/is shared.

We can take this back to JULY 16, 2003 (and actually some time well before that)... just so you can cease with all the Deflections Of The Desperate.

Anyway... Back in July 2003, LOFTON wanted to comment on a sig~quote I used then, quoting Dr. Maulana Karenga. Below, briefly, is a representation of our exchange:
quote:
quote:
...Ron Karenga is a convicted felon, convicted of murder. So much for his words of wisdom {comment directed at the quote I used}. Many Black people who have committed terrible crimes change their birthname to hide their past.

Lofton then went on to link to a piece that he captioned, as only he knows how, like so:
If the Truth Is Ever Told About Ron Karenga, He Would Not Be Looked Upon as Being any Hero!

I quoted the portion from the link that was most relevant to Lofton's claim that Karenga was a convicted murderer:
    Carter and Huggins' apparent killer was Claude "Chuchessa" Hubert, although George and Larry Stiner were arrested for the crime. All three were members of the cultural nationalist US organization led by Ron "Maulana" Karenga. It is unclear whether Hubert, the Stiners, and Karenga were knowing agents of FBI-Cointelpro, accidental agents, or some combination of the two.

    Congressional investigators of Cointelpro put forward the most conservative plausible argument. Huey Newton summed up this argument: "The impression given from official investigations is that the FBI merely took advantage of an existing state of 'gang warfare' between the two organizations. (Listed under "HOOVER'S AGENDA")
MY RESPONSE:

I don't know why you think this is a shock to me. I may not be from Cali. but
I am definitely aware of this situation.
Now, address the ERRORS IN YOUR LOGIC:

Was it scary when Ronald Reagan "backed" the King Holiday?

It was like the only thing in bold in my post above but, as much as you can "spit venom" with the best of us... I guess actually addressing the silly conclusions you jump to is out of the question. And that's without even touching your weird claim that Kwanzaa "closely resembles" Christmas.

FYI... Whether you're Alice, Sally or Pam... I could give a . . . .!! Just for your information...

I do know, however, that you say some of the most outrageous stuff then run behind the "Negative Energy" ploy because you can't positively defend a DAMN thing you say. So funny how it's every single person like you who wants to pretend they know so much always have some exit plan when their ability to BS on the actual topic fails them.

So talk about people trying to kill your self-appointed Queen B of Knowledge "joy"... talk about all types of stuff and then come with a weak rhetorical question that still doesn't help you... deflect attention away from your belligerent ignorance.

But, don't let me stop you... Speak in a "joyful" and loud voice and proclaim with conviction your answer to this simple question: Was it scary when Ronald Reagan "backed" the King Holiday?

If it was, then please detail the fall-out, the negative developments that followed Reagan "backing" the King Holiday.
If not, then consider the reason why Reagan's "backing" of the King Holiday wasn't scary to you (if so) and apply that type of thinking to this case with Bush's supposed "backing" or endorsement of "Kwanzaa". I mean, far be it for a politician to do and say something that's politically expedient or otherwise choose his battles...

Anyway... please say something that maintains your focus on your topic. And, really... you quoted/linked to some propaganda listed on FREE REPUBLIC, Fine... The article is authored by ANN COULTER. I mean, do you even have a clue??
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quote:
Originally posted by Nmaginate:
And, really... you quoted/linked to some propaganda listed on FREE REPUBLIC, Fine... The article is authored by ANN COULTER. I mean, do you even have a clue??


D*mn, Nmaginate. This is vicious. But really, (very blond) Anne Coulter *IS* a rightwing lunatic. She's not a friend of black folk and I wouldn't use her as a source for anything. I've never in my life hit a woman but if I ever had the chance I'd slap the sh*t out of Anne Coulter.

And, as much as I hate Dubya, I'd take his word before Coulter's.
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I just glanced over the Coulter article and it's more of the same crap: * white folk deciding its their place to choose OUR leaders *. She's out to discredit "Black 60's radicals" and everything they stood for and then what we're left with is the "Black Christian leadership" she approves of.

See my post on the "Heaven&Hell Before Christ" thread on * ENSLAVEMENT OF THE MIND *

For REAL ya'll. Read the last 2 paragraphs of that article. It's positively dripping with racist condescension.

* Also [Notice] that Coulter and Bush are using the same tactic: Posing as friends of black people: Bush by endorsing kwaanzaa: Coulter by endorsing the 'Good Negro Leaders' over those 'violent black radicals'. *
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Nmaginate--FYI--I am aware of the venom in Ann Couliers' remarks, but I've learned from a scholar far, far greater than you[Dr. Claud Anderson]--that it is wise to look at what the non-hue writes to gain a better perspective of issues, especially sensitive issues like the one brought forth.

I listened to Bev Smith's Nighttime talk show and gained insight from the mouth of a black man who runs this website and brought the information about Dr. Karenga to light: http://streetgangs.com/

Go terrorize someone else. Or develop an original thought of your own, because basically your sniper remarks at what I post is starting to get real ole real fast....!

Your sniper remarks are closely related to your friendship w/Faheem...and explains your true venom for me, as if I gave a chyt...!


I am,
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quote:
Nmaginate--FYI--I am aware of the venom in Ann Couliers' remarks

Apparently not, given how you posted her unqualified remarks here... well, without a remark from you about which statements contained her biased "venom."

quote:
...but I've learned from a scholar far, far greater than you--that it is wise to look at what the non-hue writes to gain a better perspective of issues, especially sensitive issues like the one brought forth.
More patented, ridiculous, silly and IRRELEVANT rambling... It's ANN COULTER. Hell, she could be Red, White & Blue-BLACK and noting her bias and "venom" would still be in order. Please say something on the actual subject matter... like addressing this question:

Was it scary when Ronald Reagan "backed" the King Holiday?

quote:
I listened to Bev Smith's Nighttime talk show and gained insight from the mouth of a black man who runs this website and brought the information about Dr. Karenga to light: http://streetgangs.com/
Then it would be much better to rest your misgivings or desire to "bring forth" information about Karenga with this un-named "Black man" citing his statements as the source instead of someone like ANN COULTER who's such a political hack. Hell, you could have gone to any number of Black Panther type sources for a much more direct if not firsthand knowledge of Karenga's history (however, biased it might be) without the right-wing political hack-bent COULTER littered her column with. Surely her words don't exactly reflect whatever this unnamed "Black man" had/has to say on this issue.

quote:
Go terrorize someone else. Or develop an original thought of your own, because basically your sniper remarks at what I post is starting to get real ole real fast....!
And your wild assertions, conspiracy theories and unthinking of every kind was played out a long time ago. If you actually learned anything from any such "scholar" then some actual scholarship (and integrity) would actually help a lot.

And, yeah... That little question about the King Holiday must really "terrorize" ya, huh? I wonder why...

quote:
Your sniper remarks are closely related to your friendship w/Faheem...and explains your true venom for me, as if I gave a chyt...!
More dumb conspiracy shit. But thanks for the information. Didn't know Faheem had to pull your Drop Knowledge Card (too). I do remember the shit you tried to pull with VOX though.

See, FAGUNWA... He's a much more patient man he tried to tell you:
Don't believe everything you read that's how US, the Panthers and many others got duped.

Even after all that, you still never considered your source. That is to say, it's hardly in-keeping with "scholarship" for the author of an opinion piece (especially) to go unnamed, unknown. Again, you linked to a right-wing forum, took the story and ran with it which seems to be a pattern with you. It took nothing for me to discover COULTER was the author of the piece. It is incumbent on you, the poster who references COULTER'S article, to leave a direct link or list her explicitly as the author.

Can you attest to the veracity of these statements (that they are factual and not misleading and/or so steeped in COULTER'S own personal/political bias as to be beyond any value as information that conveys any legitimate "truth" about the subject):
  • Kwanzaa itself is a lunatic blend of schmaltzy '60s rhetoric, black racism and Marxism. Indeed, the seven "principles" of Kwanzaa praise collectivism in every possible arena of life

  • When Karenga was asked to distinguish Kawaida, the philosophy underlying Kwanzaa, from "classical Marxism," he essentially explained that under Kawaida, we also hate whites.

  • The seven principles of Kwanzaa are the very same seven principles of the Symbionese Liberation Army, another charming invention of the Least-Great Generation.

  • The Christian leaders at the forefront of the abolitionist and civil rights movements have been washed down the memory hole.
Also, let's see you account for these statements and how they reflect the sentiments of the brother you "heard" on Bev Smith's show:
  • United Slaves were proto-fascists, walking around in dashikis, blowing away Black Panthers and adopting invented "African" names. (That was a big help to the black community: How many boys named "Jamal" currently sit on death row?)

  • Karenga matter-of-factly explained that the forces out to get O.J. Simpson for the "framed" murder of two whites included: "the FBI, the CIA, the State Department, Interpol, the Chicago Police Department" and so on.

  • It's as if David Duke invented a holiday called "Anglica," and the president of the United States issued a presidential proclamation honoring the synthetic holiday.

  • Kwanzaa was the result of a '60s psychosis grafted onto black community.
Please tell us how those comments reflect those of the guest on Bev Smith's show.

Did the brother from http://streetgangs.com/ talk about how Kwanzaa was about Hating Whites?

Also, I believe there's COINTELPRO information out via Freedom of Information that may shed some light on Karenga's history.... or at least there's info. on the FBI's attempts to undermine the BPP.

Well, here... try this site: COINTELPRO -- Black Nationalist Hate Groups
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off
Q. Who appointed the scary Nmaginate my personal moderator of politically correct responses to post to the board?

A. The ghost of Nmaginate's imagination.
lol lol lol

Let's face it you are not really trying to exchange intellectual discourse here you have a different mission...right?

---------------------------------------
Back on topic:

Another shared opinion...

Kwanzaa: Symbolism Over Substance
Submitted by mweaver on Wed, 2005-12-14 22:07. General Current News
Kwanzaa: Symbolism Over Substance

from the book "It's OK to Leave the Plantation" by Mason Weaver. http://www.masonweaver.com

Increasingly Black Americans are embracing the Kwanzaa celebration and festival. Why? What is the need to recognize a made-up holiday with false traditions? It is because of emotion. The community has been told it is a "black thing" and therefore it must be honored.

Now, do not get me wrong, I have no problem in remembering my past or honoring traditions. I have a degree in Black History, I speak Swahili and had acquired an African name long before it became politically correct. However, let us get serious"”traditions are for memories, not for made-up holidays. Kwanzaa is a make believe story full of errors and falsehoods.

With such a rich heritage and history, why do we celebrate the fantasy world of a college professor from the radical 60's? Professor Ron Karenga made up Kwanzaa in 1961 to counter the Western celebration of Christmas. Dr. Karenga made up a word, made up its definitions and then made up the elements we recognize today as "traditions." First, "Kwanzaa" does not spell "first fruits" in Swahili or any other language.

When I interviewed Dr. Karenga a few years ago, he admitted that the word was changed from the Swahili word "Kwanza" to "Kwanzaa" because he needed seven letters to represent his seven children. Because I spoke Swahili (and he apparently did not) Dr. Karenga was forced to admit that the word "Kwanza" was a Swahili adverb for "first," and he added the extra "a" and "fruits" because it fit his story. And for all of you who wish to celebrate "first fruits," the proper Swahili noun would be "Limbuko," which would have given Dr. Karenga his seven letters for his children had he understood the language.

My question is, why celebrate this make believe holiday anyway? With the rich history and heritage of Africa and black people in America, why not remember what we have accomplished in facts instead of celebrating a fantasy? You could celebrate the historical defeat of the Roman army by the Ethiopians or Hannibal's invasion of Europe. One could commemorate the great library at Timbuktu or the engineering feat of the pyramids.

Then there are the historical feats of Black Americans, both the well-known and the never-to-be-known. Benjamin Bannaker's redesign of our Capital from memory, Crispus Attucks, the first man to die in the American Revolution, or the scientific genius of E.J. McCoy (the "Real McCoy") should be honored. We could celebrate the brave adventure of Harriet Tubman's underground railroad or perhaps the unblemished record of the Tuskegee airmen of WWII.
http://www.masonweaver.com

"It's ok to Leave the Plantation
http://masonweaver.com/portal1/?q=node/124
quote:
Let's face it you are not really trying to exchange intellectual discourse here you have a different mission...right?
If that was your mission, to have an intellectual exchange... then you would be able to entertain, address and/or answer this simple question:

  • Was it scary when Ronald Reagan "backed" the King Holiday?


    You would also be able to tell us how Kwanzaa, in your estimation, "closely resembles" Christmas.

    And since you brought it up... Go figure. There are Black people who have issues with Kwanzaa. Wow!!! What a revelation, Fine... Roll Eyes Funny how Mr. Weaver's "shared opinion" doesn't help you. Mr. Weaver apparently wasn't the brother on Bev Smith. Mr. Weaver also had nothing to say about Karenga's relationship to the FBI.

    Now, is there a problem with you like actually staying on your on topic?
    Again, there are plenty of sources, particular Black Panther oriented, that have plenty to say about Karenga and the FBI.

    But, of course, Mr. Weaver would have a "shared opinion" with COULTER considering his brand of Black CONservativism... that and the idiotic "shared" rhetoric about the "Liberal Plantation."

    Fine... You can do better than that.
  • My original thought is packed within this question that has you scared to comment:

  • Was it scary when Ronald Reagan "backed" the King Holiday?

    Feel free to speak at length about the King Holiday. You can share your opinion, even your first thoughts when Reagan made it official. Were you suspect then? What did you feel, at the time or, now, in retrospect?

    Engage the actual topic, FINE. It's not that hard. Engage the actual topic and support your positions.

    And for you evasions pleasure, threads I've started recently:

  • Armstrong is Right. It is Self-Sabotage...

    Walters: KANYE West Was Right!!

    The AAEA: Black Conservatives For REPARATIONS???

    Those would seem to fall under your category of "original thought." And here's another one, perhaps outside that category, yet very "original" in thought regardless as to what provoked my question:

    When Did Black People Give Up The Right To Be "AFRICAN"?

    While you're looking through those, please be sure to note the ideas I've copied off of someone else. I'd like to know where you think I got my ideas from and how I don't manage to publish "original" thoughts here.

    But don't get side-tracked. Don't run for the nearest rat hole. STAY ON YOUR TOPIC! Stay on your topic and let's see you come up with some "original" thoughts - i.e. not some shit Ann Coulter or some mysterious (or even not so mysterious) scholar or Bev Smith guest said. YOUR OWN ORIGINAL THOUGHTS on this question:

  • Was it scary when Ronald Reagan "backed" the King Holiday?

    Your ORIGINAL answer can be as simple or as complicated as you want it to be. My point in asking it is to merely have you contrast that with your statement about Bush "backing" Kwanzaa.

    It's not that hard.
  • quote:
    Q. Who appointed the scary Nmaginate my personal moderator of politically correct responses to post to the board?

    A. The ghost of Nmaginate's imagination
    Damn... You could at least make up a good joke.

    "Personal Moderator"

    Your excuses are plenty. But I guess business is booming and I'm pretty booked... Me being the PM (personal moderator) for so many people like you, CON-Feed, etc. (Rowe, Ebony Rose, others with similar claims in the past) who make crazy ass comments then want to act a fool when someone calls them on their BS.

    There's a little trick to this, FINE.
    DON'T SAY STUPID SHIT and you won't get checked.
    Has nothing to do with political correctness, though verifiable, veracious correctness would help.

    By your own admission, you're wanting this to be a focus on the TRUTH. Well, I've merely requested you to be so focused. Now what's your problem with that? What's your problem with vouching for the veracity of the BULLSHIT you posted, authored by COULTER?

  • Kwanzaa itself is a lunatic blend of schmaltzy '60s rhetoric, black racism and Marxism. Indeed, the seven "principles" of Kwanzaa praise collectivism in every possible arena of life

    These statements represent The TRUTH (and nothing but the Truth)... HOW??
    • When Karenga was asked to distinguish Kawaida, the philosophy underlying Kwanzaa, from "classical Marxism," he essentially explained that under Kawaida, we also hate whites.

    • The seven principles of Kwanzaa are the very same seven principles of the Symbionese Liberation Army, another charming invention of the Least-Great Generation.

    • The Christian leaders at the forefront of the abolitionist and civil rights movements have been washed down the memory hole.
    Do you want to engage in intellectual discourse over what you posted or what? Tell the truth?

    Do you characterize Kwanzaa and Karenga's philosophies as ideas marked by "BLACK RACISM", Marxism and a historical disregard for America born Black leaders, etc.? If so, why?

    You talk about "The Blaq Collective"...
    Are you down with Coulter's issues over what she calls "Kwanzaa's praise of COLLECTIVISM."

    Intellectually, do you even have a clue?
  • Anyway... Since you say you used to practice Kwanzaa then abandoned it because it "lacked substance" (it's principles)... It would be helpful if you yourself expressed your own personal and ORIGINAL thoughts about it, particularly as it relates to why you quit Kwanzaa.

    At least then we would know why you're so personally invested in trying to represent Kwanzaa and Karenga the way you are. That's all a part of scholarship, you know...
    I want Kwanzaa to be a good thing for African America. I believe that conceptually it is.

    All holidays are man-made. Why should a holiday be invalid because we created it.

    I could give two shits about Ron Karenga.

    The idea, whether his or someone else's, is a good idea.

    Approximately one-third of the population of African America (13MM) is reported to celebrate Kwanzaa.

    If the features of the holiday need to be 'fixed' do it.

    Mend it don't end it, as the saying goes.

    It's good.

    Let's keep it.

    PEACE

    Jim Chester
    Much respect Sister Fine.

    Bev Smith knows nothing about Karenga and a phone call to him would have put him and his accuser on the show together and Prof. would have waxed his tail. There are those in this country of euro and african ancestry who would do anything to discredit (least) or kill (most) anyone who attempts to link the african american to the sacred technology of his ancestors. This linking would in a few generations shake up the world . Can't you see how hard they work to keep their feet on your necks? With the rest of us they just want our resources, but with you they seem to want your souls. Have you ever wondered why this is?
    Nag-Nag-Nag
    quote:
    Anyway... Since you say you used to practice Kwanzaa then abandoned it because it "lacked substance" (it's principles)... It would be helpful if you yourself expressed your own personal and ORIGINAL thoughts about it, particularly as it relates to why you quit Kwanzaa.

    At least then we would know why you're so personally invested in trying to represent Kwanzaa and Karenga the way you are. That's all a part of scholarship, you know...


    You are the "only" person that seems to have a problem with whom, what, when and how I post...!
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    quote:
    I want Kwanzaa to be a good thing for African America. I believe that conceptually it is.

    All holidays are man-made. Why should a holiday be invalid because we created it.

    I could give two shits about Ron Karenga.

    The idea, whether his or someone else's, is a good idea.

    Approximately one-third of the population of African America (13MM) is reported to celebrate Kwanzaa.

    If the features of the holiday need to be 'fixed' do it.

    Mend it don't end it, as the saying goes.

    It's good.

    Let's keep it.


    --Nmaginate could learn alot from you wise JWC!

    You may not agree with me but you are not disagreeable this is a true mark of intellect!
    Elder JWC please excuse my youth in my response.


    Prof. Karenga has much more than Kwanzaa in mind. The fact that you couldn't give two s**** about him is well... we call it ibi. That's when you go for a reading and the lesson in the configuration is one that you will not accept. This does not mean that the awo giving the reading in incorrect. I respectfully ask Sir that you read a little of Prof. Karengas' work and see if this alters your view. If it does not forgive me for my error.
    quote:
    Originally posted by James Wesley Chester:
    I want Kwanzaa to be a good thing for African America. I believe that conceptually it is.

    All holidays are man-made. Why should a holiday be invalid because we created it.

    I could give two shits about Ron Karenga.

    The idea, whether his or someone else's, is a good idea.

    Approximately one-third of the population of African America (13MM) is reported to celebrate Kwanzaa.

    If the features of the holiday need to be 'fixed' do it.

    Mend it don't end it, as the saying goes.


    The best thing anyone has posted so far
    Much respect Fagunwa:

    Bev Smith knows nothing about Karenga and a phone call to him would have put him and his accuser on the show together and Prof. would have waxed his tail.

    "I respectfully disagree and just to clarify Bev Smith does not profess to know about Karenga: it was her guest who presented the facts about Dr. Karenga."

    Can't you see how hard they work to keep their feet on your necks? With the rest of us they just want our resources, but with you they seem to want your souls. Have you ever wondered why this is?

    "They want both our souls the methology is just different on this side of the rock as compared with that of the other side of the ocean.

    The tricks of this society are plain to me but collectively we are ill equipped to handle all the twists, tweeks and turns that blow our way on a daily basis.

    The reason that 'Western-White' Civilization~~which is fake since civilization has nothing whatsoever to do with direction, but rather is civilized or not civilized~~wants our souls is: we are a constant, visual reminder of the true essence of African thought, word and deed. Europeans know Africans created everything by the time they woke up. They just don't want blaq folk knowing or spreading this truth--if this response is off, please enlighten me. I am always open to learn..."

    There are those in this country of euro and african ancestry who would do anything to discredit (least) or kill (most) anyone who attempts to link the african american to the sacred technology of his ancestors.

    "If I personally thought Dr. Karenga aka Ron N. Everett was providing a plausible service I would be the first to jump on his band wagon."
    ---------------------------------------------

    My mother was a wise woman and she only had a 3rd grade education. I say this, because Dr. Claud Anderson repeated her words no less than 12 hours ago on Bev Smith's show when he spoke of the importance of garnering the opposing sides thoughts and feelings to better understand the bigger picture...
    quote:
    --Nmaginate could learn alot from you wise JWC!

    You may not agree with me but you are not disagreeable this is a true mark of intellect!
    Whether I have the true mark or an off brand one or no intellect at all... NONE OF THAT is any excuse for the BULLSHIT you post.

    Call that "disagreeable"... Twirl that around and then get back to YOUR TOPIC!

    quote:
    You are the "only" person that seems to have a problem with whom, what, when and how I post...!
    Seems my ass! Maybe you can explain your earlier remarks:
    quote:
    Your sniper remarks are closely related to your friendship w/Faheem...and explains your true venom for me, as if I gave a chyt...!
    I should assume from that that whatever "venom" Faheem has "for you" has nothing to do with how you post. Also, from your statement about me being the "only" one... as I alluded to earlier, I sure VOX didn't have a problem with how you were posting on the Queen Candace thread.

    quote:
    Let me get this straight... in a topic like this, you attempt to dis? Does that mean you get mad when somebody else posts info on a topic? I know more real ancient African history than you could ever hope to know, so these stupid attempts at "correcting" somebody not only are out of place in a discussion about it, but are hilarious because they're misplaced to begin with.
    I know you remember that. And I know you remember how you employed the same little "Negative Energy" tactics when your Drop Knowledge Card got pulled there too. It just so happens a lot of people here have a lot more tact than I do and a lot more patience with profound ignorance coming from the willful and flamboyantly ignorant. As I told ROWE when she was crying the same blues you are... I am The Mighty Intolerant. Call it a character flaw... But you better have another excuse for why you can't forward your points, explain them, support them and STAY ON THE TOPIC on your own damn thread.

    You can't blame that on my or my approach or "negativity." Post after post, I've reminded you of the topic. The most you could do is something... "original" and post another column?? Authored by someone else? That's "original"??

    Like I said... There's a simple trick to this... DON'T SAY STUPID SHIT!! It's just that simple.
    quote:
    Bev Smith knows nothing about Karenga and a phone call to him would have put him and his accuser on the show together and Prof. would have waxed his tail.

    "I respectfully disagree and just to clarify Bev Smith does not profess to know about Karenga: it was her guest who presented the facts about Dr. Karenga."
    For the record... Way back when Bev Smith was on BET and had her talk, news, interview show... I recall her having Dr. Karenga on every year, it seemed, to talk about Kwanzaa or what-have-you.
    You have finally reached the all time low of self-hate.

    I do not appreciate your demeanor nor your tone. Therefore, If you think my posts -- bullshit -- which they are not -- carry you scary little self someplace else and terrorize someone else...!

    You don't even respect yourself, how could you ever respect me...

    You could learn a thing or two from Fagunwa as well!
    Dr. Martin Luther King was a hand picked agent for the CIA to counter the original so-called civil rights movement started by Adam Clayton Powell. Reagan with his close associate at the time George Bush (director of the CIA) was the prime figure-head, and attacker of the Black Panther Party.

    Kings was a pacifist, weak, love your enemy, don't fight, march with signs given to you by the FBI. So when they killed him and passed a bill to honor his birthday, they are programming you with his concepts and want them to be the model for how you act or react to oppression. And so here we are worst off than ever before headed to Katrina concentration camps.

    Kwanza was designed by the JEWS to counter the Afocentric push to stop blacks from spending money in white stores, and stop celabrating christmas. To keep niggers spending and contributing to their own destruction.

    And this is also why a black female psychic who knew about king stabed him.

    When King decided to change his point of view and side with Malcolm and some of The "stand and Fight" phosophy he was then targeted for extinction.

    He was killed by Jesse Jackson who pull a gun out a bag and shot King at point blank range and pointed to some other area as a reference point of attack. This is where you see the planned photo shoot of the famous slaying.

    Most of what we call revolution was carefully planned and manipulated, they controlled how you liberate yourself.

    "Operation Mind Control"
    Last edited {1}
    Elder JWC please excuse my youth in my response.


    Prof. Karenga has much more than Kwanzaa in mind. The fact that you couldn't give two s**** about him is well... we call it ibi. That's when you go for a reading and the lesson in the configuration is one that you will not accept. This does not mean that the awo giving the reading in incorrect. I respectfully ask Sir that you read a little of Prof. Karengas' work and see if this alters your view. If it does not forgive me for my error.---Fagunwa

    I appreciate your position on Dr. Karenga.

    My characterization was for effect, but is essentially true. I do not really care about Dr. Karenga, particularly his philosophy.

    Dr. Karenga's 'product' is about politics. I don't like his politics.

    I don't like the rationale of his politics, that I have read.

    There is no need to apologize for a different opinion.

    Incidentally, I never clearly revealed my age before that 'birthday thread', because I was afraid it would become an interference for hearing the merit, or the lack thereof, of what I am saying.

    That shouldn't be.

    Wrong is wrong whatever its source.

    Likewise, right is right.

    I like the concept of Kwanzaa.

    I don't like the politics of Dr. Karenga.


    PEACE

    Jim Chester
    quote:
    Originally posted by Dr. Strange:
    Dr. Martin Luther King was a hand picked agent for the CIA to counter the original so-called civil rights movement started by Adam Clayton Powell. Reagan with his close associate at the time George Bush (director of the CIA) was the prime figure-head, and attacker of the Black Panther Party.

    Kings was a pacifist, weak, love your enemy, don't fight, march with signs given to you by the FBI. So when they killed him and passed a bill to honor his birthday, they are programming you with his concepts and want them to be the model for how you act or react to oppression. And so here we are worst off than ever before headed to Katrina concentration camps.

    Kwanza was designed by the JEWS to counter the Afocentric push to stop blacks from spending money in white stores, and stop celabrating christmas. To keep niggers spending and contributing to their own destruction.

    laugh lol
    JWC
    In my culture we honor elders and approach them in a particular manner. For instance the way I would say "good morning" to you would be different than the way I would say it to my brother who is close to my age. This does not take away from the truth we tell them it just governs the way we state it. For me to approach you in any other manner would be a reflection on how I was raised and would dishonor my parents and that can never happen.

    Fine

    The short explanation for "ibi" is contained in my post to JWC.

    Nmag
    Much respect. Keep that fire hot.

    Dr. Strange

    If it was not for Dr. King we would be on the back of the bus in many ways. When you have given your life for your cause perhaps your decendants can show you the honor you would deserve.

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