Those fuccken West Africans sold us off like cattle, - creating a category of people unwanted and unknown to the world until the 20th century political racial category of African American.  We ain't African!  Irrespective of slavery, hate, segregation, racism and bigotry we are Americans!  In fact, we are all the more American than some others groups like Mexicans and Asians.  After 300 hundred years of blood and toil, - we paid our dues here on American soil, we ain't Africans!!

 

Simply because our skins are black and our heritage is that of Africa makes us no more African than the white skin of Belgians and Germans make them Jewish!!  Even those of the dark skinned South East Asian Indians and Polynesians don’t claim to be African when in fact they possess the same African heritage as African Americans!!!

 

I am proud black American no matter what my historical past is!  No matter what white folk think!  No amount of hate and bigotry will ever strip me of my Americanism and render me a nonentity with no home or country as the West African slave trade certainly did!!! I ain’t no damm African!!   Let the fuccken Africans celebrate Kwanzaa!

 

Original Post

Lemme just say this, though, SS  .....

 

In the makeup of the components of the blood that is coursing through YOUR veins .... you will NOT find anything that is entitled "American" .... because no such thing exists. 

 

There is no DNA strand labeled "American."  Or "Black."

 

But ... there IS a blood component in YOU that is designated and defined as "African."  And you HAVE it in your bloodstream. Right now.  Even if you don't want it there.  It IS there ... and there's NOTHING you can never ever do to change that!!

 

That's just a fact of life and nature.

 

Now ... You DON'T HAVE to call yourself an African if you don't want to!!!  That's TOTALLY up to you!!  And I respect your right to call yourself anything you want.  But .... there is a little, undeniable thing called R-E-A-L-I-T-Y at play here.  And in yours .... there is the blood of Africans in your veins.  Probably at least two of 'em.

 

There always has been.  And there always will be. 

Originally Posted by EbonyRose:

Lemme just say this, though, SS  .....

 

In the makeup of the components of the blood that is coursing through YOUR veins .... you will NOT find anything that is entitled "American" .... because no such thing exists. 

 

There is no DNA strand labeled "American."  Or "Black."

 

But ... there IS a blood component in YOU that is designated and defined as "African."  And you HAVE it in your bloodstream. Right now.  Even if you don't want it there.  It IS there ... and there's NOTHING you can never ever do to change that!!

 

That's just a fact of life and nature.

 

Now ... You DON'T HAVE to call yourself an African if you don't want to!!!  That's TOTALLY up to you!!  And I respect your right to call yourself anything you want.  But .... there is a little, undeniable thing called R-E-A-L-I-T-Y at play here.  And in yours .... there is the blood of Africans in your veins.  Probably at least two of 'em.

 

There always has been.  And there always will be. 

Uuuuuum Africa is a continent just as (North) America is.  There is no such thing as African  DNA. 

I kinda sympathize with your apathy towards West Africans, though I still disagree with it, I do understand it. I also commend your celebration of black American heritage. Here on this forum we have many multi culturalist who celebrate other ethnicities equally to their own, so it is rare to see one who love their heritage as much. But Kwanzaa wasn't created by Africans nor for Africans but for Black Americans, so why would Africans celebrate it? Also you can't let the actions of some west Africans turn you off of your heritage; visit, invest and own a piece of west Africa my man, it is your birth right.

  You know.......there is no GENETIC difference between an African and an African America...it's a cultural difference based on environment and LOCATION.  They are STILL the SAME people divided by FORCED geography.  Anyway where do folks think they CAME from?    Mars?   This is absolutely ridiculous. And silly.  Europeans derived from Europe.....Asians derived from Asia and Africans derived from where?  AFRICA!!!!  Five years old know this.  Reminds me of those blackfolks in denial....I ain't from Africa....I'm from Georgia.  Duh!  How did you get there?  And cuz massa has been successful in brainwashing Africans by way of slaves ships to believe that they are different based on a "name" HE created for them, we [both] reject each other [and our kinship] time and time again.  Fortunately FOR massa's benefit.  But! God made it easy to identify who we are to each other just in case this happened.  All we have to do is open our eyes and see. How easy is that?  But again....we have blind acceptance.  We will accept those differ from us and try to be like them....but will continue to deny those who are not only similar to us but are clearly the SAME as us.  I call this pitiful on so many levels it ain't even funny.  And massa is laughing his azz off big time...cuz the JOKE is on us.  But! 

That's one thing that has always baffled the hell outta me, too, Ms. Koco!!   And it always seems to be the so-called "ethnically conscious" people who think this way the most!!

 

Knowing that human beings - and especially Africans, since they were the first - have been on this Earth for millions of years .... how can a Black person believe that they have no ancestry that goes beyond America???    I mean .... do they REALLY think that going allllll the way back in the history of who their family is .... NOBODY who shares their bloodline was born until they arrived on American shores???  Do they think the WHOLE WORLD started with the creation of America??  Because America itself was not always here!!  White people constructed it only a few hundred years ago!!

 

Do they not get the concept of ancestry??  That just because they're "American" now doesn't mean that ancestors of theirs - those that came before them and made it even possible for them to be here now - weren't born somewhere else?? 

 

It's like they choose to just chop off any semblance of their their history at the point where America became a country .... as if there was no LIFE - no people, no civilization, no life on Earth - before that.  Which  is so sad.  But also so limiting.  They cut off the BEST part of their history!!!  I mean ... as bad as "America" has treated (and STILL treats!) us as Black citizens who would ONLY want to claim an association with an entity so vile??

 

I THANK GOD I have an African ancestry that pre-dates my "American" nationality.  That my bloodline is something GREATER than the citizenship that links me to a country that would would believe it was okay to treat human beings WORSE than animals.

Sista ER wrote:  That's one thing that has always baffled the hell outta me, too, Ms. Koco!!  And it always seems to be the so-called "ethnically conscious" people who think this way the most!!

 

Knowing that human beings - and especially Africans, since they were the first - have been on this Earth for millions of years .... how can a Black person believe that they have no ancestry that goes beyond America??? I mean .... do they REALLY think that going allllll the way back in the history of who their family is .... NOBODY who shares their bloodline was born until they arrived on American shores??? Do they think the WHOLE WORLD started with the creation of America?? Because America itself was not always here!! White people constructed it only a few hundred years ago!!

 

 Yep!    And guess what?  The Amerindians were ALREADY here..living LARGE.  Whitefolks don’t talk about that.  Now do they?  Hell nawl.  Whitefolks want the world to think that America began with them....when it did not.  When they brought their azzes here, the Amerindians were not gonna give up this land easily....hell nawl.  They were tricked.  Massa is the original "Indian giver." In fact, there were several wars....several.  Over 50 Native American wars against white boy...from 1775 all the way to 1918.  And what smallpox didn’t do to them....famine, and the killing of innocent children and women finally wiped them almost off the face of the earth.  That was what "the trail of tears" was all about.  Massa don’t talk about that either.  He doesn’t even say that he warned the Native Americans that if they interferred with slavery...by helping the slave escape....it would be EVEN more bloodshed.   So for these uninformed kneegrows...they REALLY need to ask somebody or read a book to find out for themselves the REAL truth about their identity and the whole dynamics of it in terms of being FROM this country.  And look!  It took whiteboy ALL of those hundreds years...every second to eventually get this country "constructed" cuz native Americans weren’t having it and were not gonna go away quietly. Nope.  That's why secret societies are dangerous.  Folks need to know what is going on around them.  Period.   Otherwise you never get the truth...only lies lies lies.  Not anything close to the truth.

.

Do they not get the concept of ancestry?? That just because they're "American" now doesn't mean that ancestors of theirs - those that came before them and made it even possible for them to be here now - weren't born somewhere else??

 

No they don’t get it cuz they were/are  brainwashed to believe they were found in the jungle.  And that somehow they were subhumans.....and massa created or evolved them into human by procreation.  This is soooooooooo stupid thinking.  Really it is.   And that’s why they do not have a homeland.  And they BELIEVE IT! Even today.  They will not embrace their African legacy.  Cuz they are ashamed.  And that is the ONLY reason I can find that makes sense.  They are ashamed of being from Africa….and that is why they will not accept the truth about their heritance.  It is the unrealistic propaganda that massa has created that many blackfolks buy....even when they KNOW better.   Bottom line...it is the neanderthal [massa] who evolved into the homo sapian[africans]....not the other way around.  

 

It's like they choose to just chop off any semblance of their their history at the point where America became a country .... as if there was no LIFE - no people, no civilization, no life on Earth - before that. Which is so sad. But also so limiting. They cut off the BEST part of their history!!! I mean ... as bad as "America" has treated (and STILL treats!) us as Black citizens who would ONLY want to claim an association with an entity so vile??

 

Cuz it’s like an abuse child still wanting the abuser to accept him/her, to love him/her even though the abuser continues to hurt, maime and psychologically destroy the self-esteem/self-worth of the victim's spirit which says "I am."  It’s classical abusive behavior on both sides.

 

I THANK GOD I have an African ancestry that pre-dates my "American" nationality.

 

Me too.

 

That my bloodline is something GREATER than the citizenship that links me to a country that would would believe it was okay to treat human beings WORSE than animals.

 

Yep.  And that bloodline holds a vase legacy of brilliance, intelligence and knowledge that massa’s heritage can’t even hold a candle to.  It is this that he has held from us....for years.  As why it was against the law for us to read and write.  Cuz once that seed of self-identity is planted, everything else in terms of intellectual elevation would be unstoppable.  And can you  image where we’d be today if we had known from the VERY beginning from where we truly derived?  Awe!  Probably corresponding with other dimensions of intelligent folks....who refuse to communicate with us by the way.  But I’m sure we would be building civilizations all over the galaxy if we came here with our full identity of self.  Massa knows this....as is why you have all these whitefolks claiming they see aliens from outer space.  They, the so-called aliens, are just circling the planet....they KNOW better than to land.  Smart!  But.  I’m just sayin     

LOL ... funny you should mention 'aliens'!!

 

At Christmas, I was discussing with the kids how it's a SHAME how White folks (and everybody else they've managed to convince!!) just naturally ASSUME that were aliens from another planet to land here on Earth, they would be just as sick and violent and depraved and mean-spirited, have instant murderous intentions and be just as cruel as they (Whitefolks) are!! 

 

When the truth could be that aliens are MUCH more advanced and intelligent than we are ... and have figured out that hatred and violence on a group of people for no reason is psychotic and arcane in this day and age .... and instead be some good, nice, fun-loving, party-having beings that want no more than to get to know and share things with us ... the way ANY decent beings - human or otherwise - should!!

 

I figured it HAS to be the feelings of guilt, fear and deserved-retribution - for all the evilness that they've inflicted on other innocent people = that would make them automatically think that someone would want to (and should) annihilate them on sight!!    I mean, it WOULD serve them right to have others do unto them as they have done to countless other civilizations throughout time!!

 

But ... since we really DON'T KNOW what those aliens 'intent' would be ... since we've never had an encounter with them before ..... why just automatically assume that it would be a negative experience??? 

The fellow acknowledge we are from Africa, as he mentioned we were sold by West Africans. So I'm not quite sure what ya'll points are. I agree distancing himself from Africa makes no sense, but it makes no less sense than pretending we are all the same. We are in the same race, but we have different cultures and culture means a great deal more than color. Also African Americans and Africans are not genetically the same. Matter of fact Africans from different regions are not genetically the same. An Algerian, a Kenyan,a Liberian and a Khoisians arent the same genetically. Not to mention most Blacks have significant white admixture (unless you are like me and of Gullah extraction :-)- but even we have some Buckra in us ). It is one thing to promote unity with all Blacks but it wont ever happen, if every keeps lying, pretending and ignoring the obvious .

On the contrary, NegroFogey .... the contradiction here is with 'the fellow' ... not with me or Ms. Koco!!

 

His saying "they sold 'us' off ..." would intimate that the "us" in question (of which HE was/is a part of!) were AFRICAN at the time we were "sold."  However, in the next sentence he states "WE ain't African"!!

 

Well ... he can't have it both ways.  You don't start out African .... and then "turn into" something else!!    Bloodline, lineage and ancestry isn't something that just disappears or evaporates.  You may "water it down" ... but you can't disintegrate it.

 

So .... either "we" were/are African - then and now - .... or "we" were/are not - and never were.

 

"WE" know we are African.  The fellow, though, obviously and unfortunately, does not. 

Naw. He clearly says they sold US off, meaning he knows we originate in Africa. He simply doesn't think of himself as one now. Which is not the same of not knowing we come from them. You are just more concerned with self righteousness and condemning the man than you are about honest conversation about an issue that effect Black unity greatly.Many people have expressed similar opinions. Ralph Ellison for one. I don't consider myself African either but for different reasons. There are many peoples in Africa, I have nothing in common with a Moroccan and care nothing about them.I have been to Ghana and am also a member of two repatriation groups. African Americans are very different than continental Africans, just as a White American not matter how WASPY is quite different from a Brit. Indeed Black Americans, West Indians, and West , Central and Southern Africans should have a great amount of unity more to each other than the nations we exist in, but we shouldn't have to make believe to make it happen.
 
 
Originally Posted by EbonyRose:

On the contrary, NegroFogey .... the contradiction here is with 'the fellow' ... not with me or Ms. Koco!!

 

His saying "they sold 'us' off ..." would intimate that the "us" in question (of which HE was/is a part of!) were AFRICAN at the time we were "sold."  However, in the next sentence he states "WE ain't African"!!

 

Well ... he can't have it both ways.  You don't start out African .... and then "turn into" something else!!    Bloodline, lineage and ancestry isn't something that just disappears or evaporates.  You may "water it down" ... but you can't disintegrate it.

 

So .... either "we" were/are African - then and now - .... or "we" were/are not - and never were.

 

"WE" know we are African.  The fellow, though, obviously and unfortunately, does not. 

“Well ... he can't have it both ways.  You don't start out African .... and then "turn into" something else!!   

 

Oh yes you can!  Prior to the West African Slave trade no such political, racial or ethnic entity named or so called category of African American existed anywhere in the world!  This racial category was born out of the West African slave trade and the mother of American Negro slavery!  Centuries of miscegenation with whites and Native American Indians combined with over three hundred years of American culture has rendered us as non-African as it has blacks in other continents, - whom despite their blackness claim no affinity to Africa!! 

 

All that is left for African Americans insofar as Africa is concerned is the obvious recognition that our heritage is indeed that of African, our skin hue in most cases is equally as dark as our African brethren, - but aside from that and the fact that many African Americans continue to hold a psychological attraction for Africa, we are without question far more culturally, politically, spiritually and socially American than we will ever be African.  The West African Slave trade removed us from the continent thus removing us from our once known African way of life.  It severed forever our “Africaness” and our tribal language and affiliation.  We as African Americans will never be Africans again, all thanks to the West African Slave Trade!!!  This is the final result and lasting legacy of the West African Slave trade as it concerns the so-called African American.

 

We were Africans 400 hundred years ago before we were removed from the continent, today we ain’t African!  The slave trade, hate, segregation, bigotry doesn’t matter, - we are still Black Americans first!

  @ Septimus Serverus/Kraal.  I totally disagree with you in that  just because we are/were a product  of slavery.....and forcibly procreated with Europeans and Native Americans does not MEAN we are no longer African.  That one drop rule created by massa doesn't apply...and it NEVER did.  Just cuz massa said it was so....doesn't mean it was.  This is the same agrument with semites.  Who are African, European and Asian.  Also with Hispanics....who are Native American i.e. amerindian and European:  Spanish.  Being human products of slavery and war doesn't ERASE  origin...........like Sista ER says it just waters it down.  There are only four NATURAL races:  African, European, Asian......AND Amerindian.  However, as a result of SLAVERY and WAR, there are a variety of these races mixed.     

 

Traditionally, those who were CONQUERED naturally take on a new identity or attached themselves to the conquerer who rule over their land.  But!  It doesn't mitigate WHO THEY ARE! Cuz why?  You are not gonna find people calling themselves MUTES.  So they will entitled themsevles to whatever GEOGRAPHY or location they are currently living.  As is why semites in Egypt consider themselves Egyptians....however true Egyptians are BLACK or North Africans.  But it is how one wants to look at themselves.  And we have had this "identity"  crisis for years.  In fact, the original tragic mulatto is not the Lousiana creo but is the African semite who derived as a result of being born to a black concubine [raped by the European or the Asian] in a harem housed by the invading Hyksos. So for thousands of years, the tragedy of "semites" have been to subjegate the women-who they consciously blame.  Cuz why?  No one especially "men"  want to be born from a slave. So they will turn their rage on the vulnerable....not the one who enslaved them....but!  On the vulnerable.....the person who brought them life instead of the ones who them "shame."   Don't believe  me?  Look it up.  See the truth hurts and that is why folks go into denial.  That is why some blacks pass for white:  denial!  That is why Hispanics will consider themselves "white."   Again....denial!  And that is why Jewish consider themselves "white." Cuz no one wants to born from the underdog-cuz if you look at world history which primarily involves Africa....that's EXACTLY what it is.  Bottom line.  Say whatcha want....if it makes you feel better.  But!  The truth will set you free and one day it won't matter to YOU your title....cuz you will finally be able to focus on being human-which is basically the "identity" we all are.  But!  I'm just sayin   

sIsta ER wrote: I figured it HAS to be the feelings of guilt, fear and deserved-retribution - for all the evilness that they've inflicted on other innocent people = that would make them automatically think that someone would want to (and should) annihilate them on sight!!    I mean, it WOULD serve them right to have others do unto them as they have done to countless other civilizations throughout time!!

 

  Bingo!  You got that right  As why all these movies about alien invasions...cuz subconsciously whitefolks KNOW they've committed the worse crime against humankind in modern history.   They KNOW they did wrong and are constantly looking over their shoulders for pay back.  And the "alien" thingy has a ring of truth to it.  I's story of communication and colloboration is written on walls in Mayan, Incas, Aztec and Egyptian pyramids.  But!  Cuz we [Amerinidans and Africans] were plucked from our land and stolen away from the ancient teachings that was a staple in our environment....we "can't see it."  It hard to focus on the third eye...when two eyes are constantly watching massa.  We have been distracted for more than 2 thousand years.  We have to get back to WHO WE ARE first....after that doing and knowing what we use to will be like relearning how to ride a "bike."  But!  I'm just sayin

Septimius, Severus,

 

I understand your points, but, respectfully (as MBM would say), they're starting from a lot of flawed assumptions that undermine you.  First of all, when you refer to the "West African slave trade," you appear to mean the trade as practiced by West Africans, without paying any mind to the European contribution to the slave trade.  That, I guess, is a matter of perspective, but your big problem is this: while Africans captured and sold other Africans, their role in the slave trade is not the reason American blacks are so different from continental Africans.  If you notice, there are many populations in the diaspora where the cultures largely retain their African character -- like Haitians, Afro-Brazilians, Afro-Peruvians, and several others. 

 

The African-born ancestors of these groups were kidnapped and marched to the coast just like our ancestors were, and eventually shackled to slave ships just like us.  The ENTIRE reason why some diasporic blacks are less "African," culturally, than others stems from what happened in each country after the Middle Passage, not before it.  That, in turn, is a reflection of the differences in how enslavement was actually practiced in each new world countries.  So while it may appear "chic" and sophisticated to blame African slavers instead of Europeans for what happened to us, you have to be a bit more discernful as to what you apply that blame to.

 

The second flaw has to do with the connection you're making between this ancestry issue and Kwanzaa.  Let me first put out there, that like you, I don't care for Kwanzaa, but for different reasons.  That said, though, your beef with Kwanzaa is misplaced, because as u know, Kwanzaa was invented by an African-American, for African-Americans, and does not really have its roots in Africa, despite its name and its elements.  So assuming you were correct in the first place about blaming West Africans for our "American-ness," you'd still be wrong to use that to disparage Kwanzaa.  If Kwanzaa existed as a celebration that existed in West Africa, then your issue would make sense (again, if we disregard my point above about the slave trade).  As it is, Kwanzaa is part of an effort to "reclaim" the Africanness that was taken from us.  But it reflects its American origin in many ways (being artificial, like so many things American; being rooted in Swahili instead of a West African language, reflecting Americans' lack of knowledge of geography). 

 

Think about it though: there was no such thing as the Latino before either.  But the Latinos don't have a problem acknowledging the Castilian roots of a lot of their culture (and many of them also acknowledge the African as well).  They are not quite Castilian anymore, like you say we aren't quite "African" anymore.  But that doesn't mean we can't acknowledge our African roots.  Whether we choose to do that through Kwanzaa or other ways, the important thing is that we do it.  

Originally Posted by EbonyRose:

Your body can be transported to another place .... your bloodline will ALWAYS remain what and where it is.  Inside of you ... making you who you are.

It is impossible for a bloodline to"make you who you are".  Your environment does. 

You say that: 

 “First of all, when you refer to the "West African slave trade," you appear to mean the trade as practiced by West Africans, without paying any mind to the European contribution to the slave trade.  That, I guess, is a matter of perspective, but your big problem is this: while Africans captured and sold other Africans, their role in the slave trade is not the reason American blacks are so different from continental Africans.  If you notice, there are many populations in the diaspora where the cultures largely retain their African character -- like Haitians, Afro-Brazilians, Afro-Peruvians, and several others.”

 

This is true, but keep in mind that over the three centuries long Atlantic slave trade the majority of slaves shipped from West African shores went to those above countries or continents you mentioned.  Moreover, history tells us that the United States actually took the fewest amounts of slaves from West Africa.  This is also the reason given by many historians why there has never been a successful slave rebellion in the United States similar to that of Toussant’s in Haiti or the slave rebellions in Brazil.  Some historians argue further that as little as one hundred and fifty years after the first and/or original slaves landed in Virginia, - from that time to the 20th century the remaining slaves were born into slavery in the United States!  Thus, we were Americans before anybody said so. 

 

“So while it may appear "chic" and sophisticated to blame African slavers instead of Europeans for what happened to us, you have to be a bit more discernful as to what you apply that blame to.”

 

I am well aware of the role Europe, the United States, the Catholic Church and white Southern Christians played in the slave trade.  Just for your information my criticism and condemnation is equal for all!   I am also well aware that for centuries prior to the 15th century African Kingdoms warred against each other for religious domination in Northern and West Africa and for Zulu expansion in Southern and East Africa.  Conquering tribes and Kingdoms took slaves in all of these wars. 

 

The same can be said for the Roman, Greek, or Ottoman Empires.  The histories of European wars were no different in nature insofar as slaves are concerned than those of Africa.  But paramount in importance is that there is no history of Roman, Greek, or the Ottoman Empires shipping slaves abroad because those Empires needed their slaves for toil on the European continent.  So it isn’t slavery per-se that bothers me.  I charge West Africa for the forced removal of slaves from the continent of Africa something that didn’t happen in Africa until the 15th century and onwards. 

 

What were once wars over religious domination in Africa, after the 15th century transformed into African Kingdoms viciously slave raiding and murdering, all for European and American muskets, trinkets and Caribbean rum.  So, even before our arrival in the new world, those Africans taken from their tribal lands destined for slavery abroad suffered terribly at the hands of our West African brethren before they arrived at their new homes abroad!  I charge those West African Kings and Queens for the immense suffering in Africa and the suffering we sustained for 300 hundred years as slaves in America.

My comments, though, are strictly focused on your point linking the African participation in the slave trade to the perceived lack of Africanness in African-Americans.  The point that I don't want you to miss is that it's the specific differences in the way we were treated here vs. how slaves in other countries were treated, that determines how much "less African" we seem.  In Haiti, people generally didn't survive the slave life, so they constantly kept having to import more & more slaves.  So most of the Haitians alive when the revolution ended were born in Africa; so their Africanness was easier to preserve.  Plus, most of them were from the same small number of tribes in the first place.  Here, of course, we came from all over, we were sold from our parents, selectively bred and sold, etc., until we had no more connection to Africa.  

 

Presumably, most kidnapped africans were kidnapped and sold within Africa in the same ways, with the same methods, as one another.  It's only when they get to the new world that they get treated differently based on the different methods each country's system has.  It is those differences in method/treatment, and those differences alone, that make us so different from other diasporic blacks.  That's why, regardless of how you feel about the role Africans played in the slave trade, they are not the reason why we don't seem as connected to Africa. 

Originally Posted by nuggyt:
Originally Posted by EbonyRose:

Your body can be transported to another place .... your bloodline will ALWAYS remain what and where it is.  Inside of you ... making you who you are.

It is impossible for a bloodline to"make you who you are".  Your environment does. 

============================

 

That is so incredibly sad. 

Add Reply

Likes (1)
nuggyt
Post
×
×
×
×