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Katrina Victims Blamed for Houston Crime
Aug 14 2:02 PM US/Eastern

By PAUL J. WEBER
Associated Press Writer

HOUSTON






A letter to inmate No. 1352951 and a cell phone bill for $76.63, both found in a soggy New Orleans duplex ruined by Hurricane Katrina, led Louisiana bounty hunter James Martin to Texas.
Again.

It marked the seventh time since Katrina that Martin, whose pursuit of bail jumpers often begins with clues salvaged from abandoned New Orleans homes, has followed a trail to Texas.

"I don't think Texas really knows what they got," Martin said.

Katrina sent a lot of bad guys to Texas, as Houston is finding out.

Houston took in 150,000 evacuees _ the most of any U.S. city _ after Katrina struck on Aug. 29. Houston police believe the evacuees are partly responsible for a nearly 17.5 percent increase in homicides so far this year over the same period in 2005.

About 21 percent of Houston's 232 homicides through July 25 involved an evacuee as either a suspect or a victim, according to police, who attribute much of the bloodshed to fighting among rival New Orleans gang members.

"New Orleans allowed a lot of these guys to stay on the street for whatever reason or be picked up and released after 60 days," said Capt. Dale Brown, who oversees Houston's homicide division. "Texas law, I don't want to say it's tougher, but we take these offenses very seriously."

Judge Robert Eckels, chief executive of Harris County, which includes Houston, said Katrina evacuees arrested in the Houston have cost the county's criminal justice system more than $18 million. In June, Texas Gov. Rick Perry sent $19.5 million to Houston to help pay for additional officers and overtime to police the city after Katrina.

The police and the Harris County sheriff's department said they have no figures on how many Katrina evacuees have been arrested. Houston police said misdemeanor and felony arrests overall actually dropped last fall from the same period a year earlier. But the sheriff's department reported a 41 percent increase in felony arrests in November from the year before.

"I think some saw (Katrina) as an opportunity," Martin's bounty- hunting partner, Michael Wright, said of evacuees who fled New Orleans with criminal records. "No one knows who they are over here."

Katrina evacuees received fair warning when they arrived in Houston. Days after the storm, Mayor Bill White went on television, flanked by Houston police, and welcomed Katrina's bedraggled survivors with a stern warning that a jail cell was waiting for anyone who crossed the line.

Evacuee Vincent Wilson, a leader of the Katrina Survivors Association, was impressed. He said that in New Orleans before Katrina, "everyone knows that if the jail's crowded you get a slap on the hand and get released."

Eckels predicted the county's worst guests will go home once their federal assistance dries up. And if many choose to stick around, the county will be ready: "We don't put up with it here. If you break the law, you're going to be prosecuted."

___

On the Net:

Houston police: http://www.houstontx.gov/police

Louisiana Capital Assistance Center: http://www.thejusticecenter.org/lcac



Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.


http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/08/14/D8JGBLB80.html


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Houston Sees Rift With Katrina Evacuees

http://www.wtop.com/?nid=104&sid=920656

This might prove that violence is something we consume in our enviroment before, and then taken in as apart of a culture.
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I think the people in Houston are saying they gave the gang members from Katrina/New Orleans a chance to start life over when they opened up their doors,but they got a higher crime rate as a thank you.


After a person has lost everything you may expect depression or suicide from the people of New Orleans/Katrina, but some people can't see why gang members continue to war, when so much damage has already been done to their community. The enviorment has change but not the behaviour.

New Orleans already had a high murder/crime rate, plus the police force was/is the lowest paid in America.
I wouldn't call the people of Houston stupid,they just didn't think or understand the whole situation.
Well, as someone living here in Houston for the past 12 years, I can give you my perspective.

Yes, Houston has always had it's share of crime. It's not Los Angeles or New York or Chicago or Detroit ... but criminals do live here and commit crimes.

The difference between pre- and post-Katrina has been the number and types of crimes being committed. The article mentions homicides but rapes and armed robberies and battery are also up. Armed home break-ins also happen with much more frequency.

There are Katrina evacuees all over the city. 100,000 people is a lot of people. You can tell many of them apart from Texans ... they just have a different look about them. The same as telling Texans from prople from other geographical areas. The majority of those Louisiana people who came here are good, hardworking, fun-loving people. But a whole lot more were poor, non-working, uneducated folks who have nowhere to go and nothing to do anymore than they did when they were in New Orleans.

I was one of those who welcomed the Katrina victims into the city and talked to them and saw them when they first came here with nothing. And I still see them all throughout the city ... those who have taken what they received and are making the best of it, and those that are not. The bad apples are few, but those that are rotten are hard-core criminals who live in a world of violence and drugs and bad behavior.

I wish I could say this is just a bunch of media propaganda, but, actually, it's really not. Roll Eyes
No one is really trying to pain Houston as a perfect place to live before the Katrina people arrived, but the data speaks for itself, 17% increase after the arrival of almost 150,000 people in less then a month. 21%, almost a quarter of the homicides involve someone from Katrina.

Say what you will but the numbers indicate a problem and the people associated with it.
We're taking the word of a bounty hunter?

wouldn't there be an increase of everything including need for social services, homelessness, and yes, crime if 150,000 people came to another city from anywhere? not just new orleans?

The stats are suspect. Houston already had gang members and illegals and poverty. it's very convenient to blame the evacuees
Did I miss something? Was Houston Shangri-la before last August?

With no figures on how many Katrina evacuees (KEs) have been arrested, how are authorities definitively linking the 41 percent increase in felony crime to KEs? Similarly, is Houston prepared to "own" the percentage of crime increase in other cities comitted by former Houstonians?

Sure, KEs have committed crime, but crime, sadly, is a daily fact in America. I just as soon have the Houston PD focus on the crime-fighting thing, and leave the larger sociological issues to others trained to deal with it.
Truth that is ridiculous. When has there ever been an en mass migration in modern times such as the one Katrina caused?

If we know New Orleans had crime and therefore criminals migrated out of New Orleans, there would be a bump in crime anywhere they landed if indeed they continued to commit crime.

Now, if you want to make the argument that people who were comitting crime in New Orleans before they moved wouldn't committ crime in the area they migrated too I most def would like to hear that one.

What is astonishing to me is the disengenous defensive posture so many of you take as opposed to rationality.

Here you have Ebony Rose who freakin lives there telling you something, you have common sense and statistics telling you something and you act as if you have some vested interest in acting like both of them are not true.

What's up with that?
quote:
Originally posted by Dell Gines:
What is astonishing to me is the disengenous defensive posture so many of you take as opposed to rationality.

Here you have Ebony Rose who freakin lives there telling you something, you have common sense and statistics telling you something and you act as if you have some vested interest in acting like both of them are not true.




A more dead-on-target comment has rarely been uttered. New Orleans was one of the top 2 or 3 violent crime capitals. The people most caught up in that lifestyle are likely among the Katrina victims. As soon as Houston took on these people, the crime rate there skyrocketed. Shall I summon Ricardomath or HonestBrother to come do some of the math for you?

I think we all need to learn to accept that it's fine to feel for victims of tragedy, to reach out and help them, and to hope for the best for them, while at the same time realizing that some of them were extraordinarily screwed up even before the hurricane. They deserve every pain we feel for them, and every measure of effort that has gone toward helping them. But that doesn't mean we break our necks avoiding and denying anything bad that a few of them do.

Most of us here have no problem acknowledging that criminals are also human beings. But from this thread, it appears that some of us don't want to acknowledge that some human beings are also criminals.
quote:
Originally posted by Dell Gines:
Truth that is ridiculous. When has there ever been an en mass migration in modern times such as the one Katrina caused?

If we know New Orleans had crime and therefore criminals migrated out of New Orleans, there would be a bump in crime anywhere they landed if indeed they continued to commit crime.

Now, if you want to make the argument that people who were comitting crime in New Orleans before they moved wouldn't committ crime in the area they migrated too I most def would like to hear that one.

What is astonishing to me is the disengenous defensive posture so many of you take as opposed to rationality.

Here you have Ebony Rose who freakin lives there telling you something, you have common sense and statistics telling you something and you act as if you have some vested interest in acting like both of them are not true.

What's up with that?


My point is what, more broadly, does the report prove? If the 150,000 had simply chosen to up and move to Houston (rather than the Katrina evacuation) that would have been their right, and Houston PD would still have had to deal with the resultant crime. So what purpose does a toothless police declaration serve?? "We are watching you," they say. So what. I'm sure there was/is crime to watch in Houston before Katrina hit.

Your 2nd paragraph is a testament to the obvious and ironically makes the point I alluded to. If the PD are going to make such a declaration it it too much to ask for them to have the statistical evidence to support it?!? They don't even know how many of the 41 percent are Katrina arrests? So WTH is the report for? What are they going to do based on it? What can they do based on it?

Re-read, Dell. I said earlier that clearly some of the crime increase was likely due to Katrina influx. But who didn't know this already? If my calling attention to this point somehow represents to you a "disgenuous defensive posture" or a "vested interest" then we have vastly different interpretations of what those terms mean.

What I said was my opinion, and subsequent questions based on what I read. No more, no less.
Truthseeker ...

I do understand your question. And I will offer this for an answer, at least from my perspective.

This is just one article by one journalist. It's not and should not be used as and was more than likely never designed to be a comprehensive, all-points-study dedicated to the specific pursuit of anything in particular. It's a news story. It provides information for anyone who may be interested in its content.

You certainly don't have to believe the story is true if you don't want to. Personally, I would hope that you and others would, because it is depicting a problem within our community, our "village" as it were. And we as a people have no hope of addressing any such problems if we refuse to ackowledge that they exist.

The way I see it, we already have too many Black people in prisons in this country. Our numbers are disproportionate to society as a whole. While there are any number of innocent Black men and women in jail cells and many more who committed no heinous crimes ... my bet would be there are just as many, if not more, that actually deserve to be there! Those are are robbing, stealing, beating, raping, killing and worse. And not just in New Orleans or Houston ... but everywhere. And they do not get a pass just because they're Black, or poor or without one or more parents, or whatever.

If they are committing crimes because they are in povery, then we, as a community, need to address and correct that problem. If it's because they are mentally ill, the again, we as a community, need to help them find help. If it's because they just got the raw end of society, who else should step forward and help them take a different road? If we don't/can't see it, then it certainly won't be us. And they (and we) will continue to sit around and wait for somebody else to do it. And we can see where that has gotten us so far. Roll Eyes

Also, the fact is, Houston is not L.A. or New York. This is not a sophistocated, big-city type of operation here. These are simple folk, with simple methods, and it is not surprising they don't have some assistant sitting up in a chair dissecting the data as to who is committing crimes and who is not. However, an increase in needed patrols and increased paperwork and bodies taking up beds is all the high-tech information you really need to know that there have been more crimes committed from one day a year ago until now.

I wish you could be here and watch the nightly news. Unfortunately, the media does not sit around making up horror crime stories to put on at 6:00. The victims are real. The crimes committed against them are real. And the perpetrators are real too. The first five stories of the evening news are about the absolute worse crimes they can find out there on the streets. There's no question there's more of them now than there used to be.

And again, you don't have to believe that. But, if you really are seeking the truth ... you're missing one if you don't.
quote:
I wish I could say this is just a bunch of media propaganda, but, actually, it's really not. Roll Eyes


Classic. A person who actually LIVES IN HOUSTON giving there perspective against folks who HAVE NOT GIVEN JUSTIFICATION AS TO WHY THIS CANNOT BE POSSIBLE.
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:
quote:
Originally posted by Dell Gines:
What is astonishing to me is the disengenous defensive posture so many of you take as opposed to rationality.

Here you have Ebony Rose who freakin lives there telling you something, you have common sense and statistics telling you something and you act as if you have some vested interest in acting like both of them are not true.




A more dead-on-target comment has rarely been uttered. New Orleans was one of the top 2 or 3 violent crime capitals. The people most caught up in that lifestyle are likely among the Katrina victims. As soon as Houston took on these people, the crime rate there skyrocketed. Shall I summon Ricardomath or HonestBrother to come do some of the math for you?

I think we all need to learn to accept that it's fine to feel for victims of tragedy, to reach out and help them, and to hope for the best for them, while at the same time realizing that some of them were extraordinarily screwed up even before the hurricane. They deserve every pain we feel for them, and every measure of effort that has gone toward helping them. But that doesn't mean we break our necks avoiding and denying anything bad that a few of them do.

Most of us here have no problem acknowledging that criminals are also human beings. But from this thread, it appears that some of us don't want to acknowledge that some human beings are also criminals.


I get it, but I don't understand where's the story.

Was this not expected?

Was the crime supposed to stay in the 9th Ward?

I feel the same about the criminals and crime rate as I did when it was in La.

Am I supposed to bawl loud now that it's in some Houston neighborhood?

That's how I perceive such articles.

As if the journalists think that it's worse now just because the crime is in Houston area.

The crime had to go somewhere.

The move was expected.

And crime is as atrocious when it's in New Orleans or in Houston.
Vox said
quote:
A more dead-on-target comment has rarely been uttered. Shall I summon Ricardomath or HonestBrother to come do some of the math for you?


Please do Vox, given..

(A) The police and the Harris County sheriff's department said they have no figures on how many Katrina evacuees have been arrested. Houston police said misdemeanor and felony arrests overall actually dropped last fall from the same period a year earlier. But the sheriff's department reported a 41 percent increase in felony arrests in November from the year before.

AND

(B) Houston police believe the evacuees are partly responsible for a nearly 17.5 percent increase in homicides so far this year over the same period in 2005.

AND

(C)About 21 percent of Houston's 232 homicides through July 25 involved an evacuee as either a suspect or a victim,

let's see
police don't even know which arrests were evacuees

AND
police contradicted themselves by saying crime actually fell, but, oh yeah, the increase is from the evacuees (which is it? did it fall? did it rise?)

AND
Evacuees were also VICTIMS of crime...something that's been overlooked

so yeah, a good statistician is in order yeah
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quote:
Originally posted by Dell Gines:
What don't you understand about INCREASE.

If I have a rate that is standard at 15% that doesn't mean it don't have crime, but if it bumps up from that significantly, when it has been consistent before, what do you attribute that too?

Ebonyrose's post says it all.


WHAT DONT U UNDERSTAND ABOUT RUSH TO JUDGEMENT?
PROPAGANDA?

an increase in and of itself does not necessarily mean a direct correlation...

didnt u take stats in college?

or did u believe william bennett when he said if you abort all black babies crime would go down?
You know, negrospiritual, you raise a lot of good points. And it got me to thinking ... something is definitely wrong with this picture! Confused

The police saying they have no figures is simply not true. They aren't telling why and there seems to be an across-the-board department-wide denial of most of the facts. (If I had to guess, I would say that the HPD is trying to save face and not admit that they are overwhelmed ... but, I have no proof of that. It just seems like the way they would think down here.)

It made me go looking and I ran across a couple of other stories regarding Katrina-related crimes and none of them seem to match and are contradictory to themselves and to each other. While this story says:

About 21 percent of Houston's 232 homicides through July 25 involved an evacuee as either a suspect or a victim, according to police, who attribute much of the bloodshed to fighting among rival New Orleans gang members.

There is another story HERE from the Houston Chronicle that says this:

quote:
Katrina evacuees are suspects or victims in 59 of Houston's 262 homicides between Jan. 1 and Aug. 26.

Residents in upper middle-class west Houston have blamed evacuees for violent crime rates that have increased almost 14 percent in one district and homicides that have nearly doubled in another.

Earlier this month, the FBI reported that violent crime in Houston jumped 2.4 percent last year, slightly above the national figure of 2.3 percent.


And yet another story HERE talking about the request of the county attorney's office to hire more prosecutors due to an increase in caseload that says both of these things in the same story!

quote:
Rosenthal and Stafford, who oversees the county's civil lawyers, said their caseloads have been steadily rising for at least six years. Additional cases due solely to the arrival of Hurricane Katrina evacuees did not prompt their requests, but Stafford said child protection cases involving evacuees had created a greater need for more lawyers.

- and-

The influx of evacuees "has definitely caused our caseloads to go up, and we are still getting new cases involving Katrina evacuees," he said.

Rosenthal declined to say whether he was seeking more prosecutors in response to a rise in some crimes in the year since since Katrina evacuees arrived from the New Orleans.


And then there's a Washington Post article that seems to have facts and figures that nobody else has:

quote:
Since Sept. 1, when an estimated 150,000 to 200,000 Louisianans resettled in Houston after Hurricane Katrina, evacuees are believed to have been involved in 26 slayings, or nearly 17 percent of all homicides. The cases, according to Houston police, involved 34 evacuees -- 19 of them victims and 15 of them suspects.

Late last month, investigators in the Houston Police Department's Gang Murder Squad announced the arrests of eight of 11 suspects believed linked to nine homicides in the city's southwest side and two others in nearby Pasadena, Tex. The slayings occurred since November, and all the suspects are displaced New Orleanians who landed in Houston after the hurricane.


So, it would appear as though there's no dispute that there has been an increase, just to what extent?
quote:
Originally posted by negrospiritual:
Vox said
quote:
A more dead-on-target comment has rarely been uttered. Shall I summon Ricardomath or HonestBrother to come do some of the math for you?


Please do Vox, given..

(A) The police and the Harris County sheriff's department said they have no figures on how many Katrina evacuees have been arrested. Houston police said misdemeanor and felony arrests overall actually dropped last fall from the same period a year earlier. But the sheriff's department reported a 41 percent increase in felony arrests in November from the year before.

AND

(B) Houston police believe the evacuees are partly responsible for a nearly 17.5 percent increase in homicides so far this year over the same period in 2005.

AND

(C)About 21 percent of Houston's 232 homicides through July 25 involved an evacuee as either a suspect or a victim,

let's see
police don't even know which arrests were evacuees

AND
police contradicted themselves by saying crime actually fell, but, oh yeah, the increase is from the evacuees (which is it? did it fall? did it rise?)

AND
Evacuees were also VICTIMS of crime...something that's been overlooked


NS,
we are >here< on this. Your post distilled the contradictions/flaws better than mine did but the point holds. Nobody denied [certainly I didn't) the plausibility of a crime increase from Katrina people, but to what end? The report's stats did not at all bear out the point I suspect they were trying to make.

so again, what was the point?
Katrina victims or not; we as Africans in America need to assemble and address the fact that soooooooooooo many of our sons/men/daughters are so criminally insane. The European does not care about our criminality; jail is a huuuuuuge business.

I believe our people need to be honed in by us and re-directed. Some of us have gone stark raving mad.

We need a Caucasian vacation, and need to put our children in check. Slavery separated us all over this country. When you point that weapon, you have nooooooo idea who you're killing. Why would anyone want to do that?

Caucasians have been killing forever; obviously, they can get away with it; they make the rules. Murder doesn't solve problems, it compounds problems. Horrendous problems.

No one should want to spend their lives locked up in "dog" cages for eternity.

Remember, you'll be working for $2.50, making fabulous products, with your ankles in chaines. Slavery personified. No time to call on relatives then, because you're f*d, in sooooooooooo many ways.

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