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Alito is anti-affirmative action. What are the community thoughts on this?
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He was a member of the "Concerned Alumni of Princeton", aka CAP. A conservative group, which in the 70s opposed minority student enrollment based on affirmative action.

Just look at the quote below from Alito:

"I am and always have been a conservative and an adherent to the same philosophical views that I believe are central to this Administration,".... "I am particularly proud of my contributions in recent cases in which the government has argued in the Supreme Court that racial and ethnic quotas should not be allowed, and that the Constitution does not protect a right to an abortion."

However, the proof is in the pudding...

Should a judge with a long, clear and consistent record of ruling against discrimination victims be given an opportunity to have the last word on civil rights laws that impact the entire nation?

Should a judge who objects to the cases establishing the well-settled principle of one-person, one-vote be placed in a position to affect the voting rights of millions of African Americans throughout the country?

Should a judge who boasted of membership in an anti-affirmative action group and compares affirmative action to slavery be given the deciding vote that determines whether affirmative action stays or goes?

These are some of the many questions raised by the National Urban League's careful and thorough analysis of the record of Judge Samuel Alito, President Bush's nominee to replace Sandra Day O'Connor on the U.S. Supreme Court. The answers led the National Urban League last week to unequivocally oppose the nomination.

The National Urban League arrived at this decision after a careful and exhaustive review of Judge Alito's record, judicial philosophy, and professional qualifications. Our examination reveals that, throughout his career, Judge Alito has demonstrated an insensitivity to the fundamental principles of civil rights and consistently interpreted the Constitution and laws in a manner that undermines equality of opportunity and social justice. If elevated to the Supreme Court, he is likely to shift the Court even further away from its role as the final protector of the rights of all of America's people.

Our study found that Judge Alito, throughout his career, has vigorously opposed affirmative action, one-person-one-vote, and other civil rights remedies that protect millions of Americans from discrimination to such a degree that it seems to thwart his ability to fairly apply our civil rights laws. In case after case, Judge Alito has ruled against discrimination victims, criminal defendants, and others who turned to his court for redress of wrongs. In fact, not once, in 15 years, has Judge Alito written a majority opinion in favor of an African American alleging discrimination. He has demonstrated an unwavering adherence to a rigid ideology but seems to lack any understanding of how discrimination impacts real people and why civil rights remedies have been and remain necessary.

Our report also reveals that Judge Alito's opposition to these fundamental principles is deep-rooted and long-standing. For example, Judge Alito has expressed great pride about his days as a full-on player in the Reagan Administration's relentless attack on affirmative action, boasting in a 1985 job application of his involvement in cases in which the Administration argued "that racial and ethnic quotas should not be allowed." However, during his tenure, Alito did not fight against illegal quotas. Instead, he actively worked to dismantle legal affirmative action and curtail the ability of the courts to remedy discrimination against African Americans, women and others.

Among other things, Alito helped write a Supreme Court brief that included some of the more bizarre and misguided arguments we've seen against affirmative action. For example, in urging the Court to invalidate a Michigan school policy that allowed white teachers to be laid off first in order to protect the jobs of black teachers, he argued that affirmative action was tantamount to slavery because, he wrote, "it may still advance some and suppress others not as individuals but because of the color of their skin." He also surmised, "Henry Aaron would not be regarded as the all-time home run king, and he would not have been a model for youth, if the fences had been moved in whenever he came to the plate.

Judge Alito has been nominated to succeed Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, who often was the all-important "swing" vote on the Court in civil rights cases. Although clearly a conservative with whom we often disagreed, Justice O'Connor was a fair and open-minded judge who decided cases without a unshakeable political ideology. She was frequently the deciding vote in decisions affecting civil rights and in many cases made the difference between maintaining important civil rights protections and losing them altogether. Justice O'Connor's successor will have the power to drastically tip the balance of the Court from conservative-leaning body to a far right institution that would tear down long-standing and fundamental civil rights protections. Judge Alito's stated opposition to reasonable and established civil rights remedies and voting rights protections, and his consistent record of ruling against victims of discrimination a make it likely that he would do just that.

Some of Judge Alito's supporters stress that he is a brilliant man and accuse the civil rights community of besmirching his character and questioning his decency. But this is not about Alito's character. It's about his record. Judge Alito may be a fine man. But his record makes him unsuitable for the U.S. Supreme Court.

We urge the Senate not to turn its back on the African American community on this important vote. Eloquent speeches proclaiming a commitment to civil rights mean little when followed by a "yes" vote that rewards yet another anti-civil rights judge a lifetime appointment where they will do substantial and possibly irreparable damage to those very same rights. The United States Senate must uphold the Constitution and protect the people they serve by rejecting this nomination and demanding the appointment of judges who will respect, not undermine, our civil rights.
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Again I ask, since Alito answered that he would approach the right to privacy, as announced and settled in Roe v. Wade, the same as he would any other case coming before him - "with an open mind"; does that mean he would approach the equally settled law that "separate is inherently unequal" announced Brown v Board of Education with an "open mind?"

What about about the premise that the constitution divided power, equally, amongst the three branches of government. Would Alito also approach a case involving an over-reaching imperial president with an "open mind?"

I would say that we are headed for real trouble were it not for my firm belief that dictatorial power grabs don't require the support of any court because at that point the law is whatever the dictator says the law is.

Hey ... wait a minute ... didn't Bush recently say something like that? Eek
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
I would say that we are headed for real trouble were it not for my firm belief that dictatorial power grabs don't require the support of any court because at that point the law is whatever the dictator says the law is.

Hey ... wait a minute ... didn't Bush recently say something like that? Eek


Yep... the Bush folks made up a fancy expression for it: the Unitary Executive. And this basically says he can do whatever he wants to do.
Perhaps we need to have Affirmative Action in the NBA. I want to be the old short Black guy on the team, so I can make $400,000 a year for sitting on the bench.

For the last 50 years, we have known the standard: 4.0 and 1600! What has changed since the mid 50's?

I was a former product of Affirmative Action and it destroys your soul. As a young man who scored on over 1200 on my SATs, I received scholarships without trying. I pissed the opportunity away. Later in life having to work hard to stay and pay for college and not relying on my 1200, I did much better.
I hate to disagree with you, but AA (Affirmative Action) had nothing to do with your soul or losing your scholarships. AA only guarantees that you have a CHANCE to compete with whites and everyone else, rather than being overlooked by the mainstream (i.e. white)or just be refused because of your skin color...with impunity.

It doesn't guarantee you a job, it does guarantee that if you make it through the interview and meet the requirements for that job or to attend college, the door will be open. Once that door is open and you enter, it's all on you, henceforth. AA doesn't have anything to do with that. Once you go through the door, you either succeed or fail on your own accord.
Well, Huey, you are right. But I got the chances because I scored well. The reason why is because I knew the standard was 4.0 and 1600.

And yes Huey, this man was stupid. I could have graduated from West Point and be a 1 star general or Colonel in the Army. Yet my stupidity took hold.

At UCLA, Asians who are averaging 3.8 and 1400 are being denied entrance for others who are averaging 3.2 and 1100. Is this fair?
quote:
Perhaps we need to have Affirmative Action in the NBA. I want to be the old short Black guy on the team, so I can make $400,000 a year for sitting on the bench.


Major ... Roll Eyes

What/Where is the NBA's equivalent to an SAT?
But, yeah... A guy with no B-Ball skills should get paid on GP just like an electrician or plumber should. Or better yet, a guy with no musical talent receiving an American Music Award for clangin' on a keyboard like a three year old. Somehow, somewhere this NBA stuff has to make some kind of sense.

As for your personal story...
KEY PHRASE: "Later in life..."
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At UCLA, Asians who are averaging 3.8 and 1400 are being denied entrance for others who are averaging 3.2 and 1100. Is this fair?
And that's happened everywhere at all times, etc., etc.

Hell, no doubt, people with 4.0's are denied. AND???

You might want to realize that there is no such absolute thing as "fair" because there is and has never been a strict merit-based system in place. But since you want to talk about Asians...

Tell us how many White forums/message boards you've visited talking about how "unfair" the Hidden Quotas were/[are]... that and all other forms of NON-MERIT BASED admissions categories (e.g. LEGACIES) which favor Whites or anyone else that hardly draw anything close to the attention or ire of so-called Affirmative Action.

But thanks for that Major... Roll Eyes

Also, with respect to the University of Michigan case, as far as "standards" were concerned? Where was all the outrage or press talking about how "unfair" this was?
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In fact, testimony in the case against Michigan showed that there were many white students admitted to the university who had test scores and grades that were lower than plaintiff Jennifer Gratz's. In 1995, the year Gratz applied to UM, of the students admitted with lower scores and grades, 1,243 were white (46.7 percent) and 725 were Black (27.2 percent).

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3812/is_200205/ai_n9058235
Hmmm.... Maybe it's just best if you're the short, White "dumb" guy collecting benefits on the end of the bench or any other place in America where the light of FACTS never seem to bother you because of all those Myths and other ways ideas and debates are framed in this country.

But then again, maybe there is a rule written in fine print that says it is "fair" for Whites regardless of lower grades and test scores, etc., etc.
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quote:
Originally posted by Major Barber:
Perhaps we need to have Affirmative Action in the NBA. I want to be the old short Black guy on the team, so I can make $400,000 a year for sitting on the bench.

For the last 50 years, we have known the standard: 4.0 and 1600! What has changed since the mid 50's?

I was a former product of Affirmative Action and it destroys your soul. As a young man who scored on over 1200 on my SATs, I received scholarships without trying. I pissed the opportunity away. Later in life having to work hard to stay and pay for college and not relying on my 1200, I did much better.


lol You're joking, Right? lol

As Huey stated, AA had nothing to do with your "losing your soul" or "pissed [your] opportunit[ies] away."

First, I distinctly recall that you to be a non-Black troll so you've begun with a lie. But even if you were Black, your so-called "loss of soul" is better described as insecurity and/or self-hate. Your pissing away of opportunities can be ascribed to youth, ignorance or stupidity, but not the OPPORTUNITY provided by AA.
Tortured Thinking:

quote:
I was a former product of Affirmative Action and it destroys your soul.


Another example of tortured Thinking:

quote:
I was a former product of Education and it destroys your soul.

If I had only been denied the opportunity for an Education, I would never been able to read about all of the disparities in this world that are based solely on the color of my skin. Now, I am soooo depressed. Since I cannot do anything about the color of my skin, it must be education that is the cause of my depression.
Common! When the facts of the matter are not in contention, denigrate the man. MAJOR ... Bullshit?

Look, the NBA is based on the best players. There are only 360 positions in the NBA. And not one of them is based on affirmative action or quota system. Each one is based on being the best.

Why should our education systems not be the same? Granted being acccepted to Michigan or UCLA is not the same as being a first round draft pick, but both should be based on the same, the best.
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Why should our education systems not be the same?
You have a problem with processing information.

You might want to realize that there is no such absolute thing as "fair" because there is and has never been a strict merit-based system in place.

The schools in this country and education ain't like basketball. Plain and simple. And I mean seriously, you just said it. The NBA is for what? 360 positions or so? How many schools are there? NBA is a profession. Colleges are not. They prepare people for professions.

quote:
Granted being acccepted to Michigan or UCLA is not the same as being a first round draft pick, but both should be based on the same, the best.
Should be?? C'mon dude. Test scores, for one, don't predict college academic success. Most grades schools, unlike most basketball courts, aren't made equal. And there's long history of that.

I mean, at least show some education and desist with the absurd Apples and Oranges comparison between the NBA, a profession, and college admissions.

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When the facts of the matter are not in contention...
Now that's MAJOR BULLSHIT considering how I got no comment from you on these things:
quote:
quote:
In fact, testimony in the case against Michigan showed that there were many white students admitted to the university who had test scores and grades that were lower than plaintiff Jennifer Gratz's. In 1995, the year Gratz applied to UM, of the students admitted with lower scores and grades, 1,243 were white (46.7 percent) and 725 were Black (27.2 percent).

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3812/is_200205/ai_n9058235
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According to THIS INTERVIEW about the hisotrical racism in the Ivy League the recent discrepancy in admissions for Asians was due to their lack of participation in ATHLETICS and extra-curricular activities as compared to other populations of students.

http://www.wamu.org/programs/dr/05/11/21.php
quote:
Japanese, Chinese and Koreans have a reputation for doing well academically, and are generally not treated as minorities if they were born in the United States. In fact, there have been reports of "reverse discrimination" in which Asian applicants were required to have higher LSAT scores and grades than their Caucasian counterparts...

http://www.deloggio.com/diversty/race.htm
Now you show me where you know for sure even in California now where Asians or students in general are chosen on strict academic merit. You show me where you know for sure that there is a complete reversal of this long history of WHITE PREFERENCES have been eliminated.
quote:
You might want to realize that there is no such absolute thing as "fair" because there is and has never been a strict merit-based system in place....


Life aint' fair...and sorry for YOUR misfortune but what does that have to do with providing...LEGALLY PROTECTION AGAINST DISCRIMINTATION!!!

Like Nmaginate said, where is all this "it aint' fair" bullshit when admissions is based on nothing more then being white?
It's funny how people run to the NBA to try to make a analogy. What? College Basketball doesn't make a good one?

Maybe it's the fact that in college basketball there is active recruiting where coaches don't simple go for the absolute "best" player - i.e. a player that's scored the most points, etc. in high school. Hell, they even recruit players (foreign, etc.) who are "raw" with limited basketball skills and knowledge in order to develope them. Hmmm....

Hey and in college basketball there's all sorts of non-scholarship players and even walk-ons. No wonder why College Basketball even when the greatest drawing point is the Final Four tournament's Cinderella lure where teams that shouldn't even be able to compete with the "big" schools stand a chance and often do make some serious upsets.

No wonder why the NBA gets chosen over a more apt comparison, even one that talks about the very same institutions - colleges.
quote:
Originally posted by Major Barber:

Look, the NBA is based on the best players. There are only 360 positions in the NBA. And not one of them is based on affirmative action or quota system. Each one is based on being the best.

Why should our education systems not be the same?


Because the objectives of a university have nothing in common with that of an NBA team.
quote:
Look, the NBA is based on the best players. There are only 360 positions in the NBA. And not one of them is based on affirmative action or quota system. Each one is based on being the best.

Why should our education systems not be the same?Granted being acccepted to Michigan or UCLA is not the same as being a first round draft pick, but both should be based on the same, the best.


Fact is, the NBA is not based on the best players; it is based on the best players that can/have shown that they can play within a system. There are plenty of "Street-Ballers" [and I'm not talking about "And-1" players] with more game than many in the NBA.

Further, how many players, with major game, have been suspended/banned or Blackballed [pardon the pun] from the NBA, despite their abilities?

This goes to show that, like in education, there are other factors effecting entrance into both areas.

So I agree with your question:
quote:
Why should our education systems not be the same?
I love this. Stimulating comments on Affirmative action. I personally don't agree with affirmative action is because when I came in the military, I rarely saw a black major or colonel. Today, I work for a Black General who is in charge operations here in the Theater. This past week I attended the promotion of 5 black majors to the rank of Lt. Colonel. In the next few weeks, I will get promoted.
The achievement of reaching LTC is based on merit.

Granted many may think that the Military is a horrible profession, but it is one where I work with Whites from Wisconsin and no one from Milwaukee and we are in the business of processing units to and from the battle zone. In the near future, I will be loosing a wonderful sister who will restart her career with Parsons Engineering as a project manager.
I don't think the sister was hired to be a token. She is moving forward because of her skills not her color.
quote:
Originally posted by Major Barber:

Granted many may think that the Military is a horrible profession, but it is one where I work with Whites from Wisconsin and no one from Milwaukee...



Well, that settles it! I don't like to work with people from Milwaukee, either. But I do wanna work with all the whites from Wisconsin I can find, as long as they're not from Milwaukee. Now that you've explained it, I see why we need to abandon AA.

BTW, do you write your own reports?
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I personally don't agree with affirmative action is because when I came in the military, I rarely saw a black major or colonel. Today, I work for a Black General who is in charge operations here in the Theater.
And I guess that happened via omosis or something. Like AA wasn't or hasn't been a factor in the military. Roll Eyes

Apparently, you need a serious education.
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quote:
Race Quotas Divide Military, Bush

WEST POINT, N.Y., June 6, 2003
(CBS) The Supreme Court is expected to rule any day now in the biggest affirmative action case in a decade. And as CBS News Correspondent Wyatt Andrews reports, President Bush and the U.S. military are weighing in on opposite sides of the issue.
quote:
Military Amicus Brief Cited in Supreme Court's Decision in the University of Michigan Case, Grutter v. Bollinger

"To lead our country's racially diverse enlisted men and women, our nation's fighting force requires a diverse office corps: affirmative action policies have helped our military build a top quality officer corps that reflects America's diversity. The Supreme Court's decision to reinforce the 1978 Bakke decision by rendering diversity a compelling state interest. Our military and academic institutions are a direct beneficiary of this landmark decision."

And here are some selected quotes/notes from the Affirmative Action Baby himself, COLIN POWELL:
quote:
She is moving forward because of her skills not her color.
Ummm... What happened with COLIN POWELL when he "moved forward"??

SKILLS or SKIN COLOR??

Educate yourself before you regurgitate BS you've been indoctrinated with. Make sure you learn what a FALSE DICHOTOMY is along the way... But, go ahead, let somebody else FRAME the issue for you. But, FYI, it's not working here.

Why the NBA? And not the NCAA?
You know, The Road To The Final Four...

quote:
quote:
  • Fact is, the NBA is not based on the best players; it is based on the best players that can/have shown that they can play within a system.

  • What? College Basketball doesn't make a good analogy? ...In college basketball there is active recruiting where coaches don't simple go for the absolute "best" player... Hell, they even recruit players (foreign, etc.) who are "raw" with limited basketball skills and knowledge in order to develope them. Hmmm.... Hey and in college basketball there's all sorts of non-scholarship players and even walk-ons.

  • The objectives of a university have nothing in common with that of an NBA team... [though] NBA teams have hired high school players and foreigners knowing that they cannot play now, but with the interest in developing their skills for the future.
  • quote:
    The achievement of reaching LTC is based on merit.

    And that has what to do with your earlier comments which you have now, curiously, abandoned?

    You know, the point where you had to admit that there is no merit-based system in education (Are all grade schools equal?):

    "Being acccepted to Michigan or UCLA... should be based on [merit]."

    SHOULD BE but it isn't and you're not even close to demonstrating that you actually believe in "merit". If so, you wouldn't be so selective in your outrage over Affirmative Action. Selective to the point of LYING YOUR ASS OFF about "your" personal experience (attributing your not applying yourself to AA).

    If you were all about merit then you would have something substantive to say about any and every instance in which merit is not the standard. You have yet to comment on LEGACIES, athletic scholarships or those White students at the UofM, etc., who slide in under the radar yet don't demonstrate the strict academic "merit" you act like you're in support of.

    No comments from you on the long history of HIDDEN QUOTAS it would seem [Whites] have used against Asians. You know, those people you wanted to pit against African-Americans, e.g., and your idea of what Affirmative Action is (which is not in line with reality). So, it's obviously not "merit" that's your concern. "Merit" is only a proxy for something else you'd rather not disclose.

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