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Op-Ed Contributor
Getting Past Katrina
By JUAN WILLIAMS
Published: September 1,2006

Washington


A YEAR ago this week, the entire nation caught a chilling look in the mirror. We watched as the citizens of New Orleans, clutching their essential belongings in plastic trash bags, struggled through fetid flood waters in search of shelter. But even with all that's been said and written on this painful anniversary, one of the real issues remains unaddressed.

The shock of Hurricane Katrina awoke many of us to the reality that poverty persists, especially among African-Americans. It persists even after the go-go 1990's, the welfare-to-work reform of the Clinton years and the passage of earned-income tax credits to put more money in the pockets of the working poor.

In fact, poverty in the United States has been on the rise since the start of the new century. The number of Americans in poverty is now 12.6 percent overall, essentially holding steady after having risen for four years. The number of the nation's children in poverty "” also climbing until last year "” is even more alarming, at close to 18 percent. But even before the great storm, New Orleans was a city of concentrated poverty: nearly a quarter of the population, about double the national average. And the poverty rate among New Orleans blacks (nearly 70 percent of the city's population) was a sky-high 35 percent.

For a brief time our guilt and shame seemed to put America on the political edge of a new try at something like a 1960's-era Great Society program. But that newfound energy was squandered amid racial and political arguments.

First, the left made the case that the reason the government was failing to help the desperate, bedraggled poor people left behind in New Orleans was that the faces on television were black "” and a Republican administration ruled in Washington. The power of that argument failed when it became apparent that poor white people, both in New Orleans and throughout the Gulf Coast, had also suffered because of FEMA's incompetence.

The right, meanwhile, depicted the poor "” that is to say the black poor, because TV cameras focused on the big city "” as looters, rapists and criminals. But when those claims turned out not to be true, there was no return to the core issue of how to help the poor escape poverty.

A year later, the best the national political class can do with American poverty is to renew stalemated conversations about increasing the minimum wage. The will to create innovative programs is missing because of a national consensus few people dare to say out loud: Americans believe that the poor can help themselves.

A Pew Research Center poll (conducted the week after Hurricane Katrina) found that two-thirds of black Americans and three-quarters of white Americans believe that too many poor people are overly dependent on government aid. Inside those numbers is the sense that welfare programs meant to help the poor create a dependency on handouts, draining people of the confidence, will to work and values that are crucial to success.

This is telling, because people of color and especially black Americans are more likely than whites to know someone who is struggling with poverty. According to the Census Bureau, 24.7 percent of black Americans and 21.9 percent of Hispanics lived in poverty in 2004, as compared to 8.6 percent of whites. Interestingly, the same proportion of black Americans who say the black poor need to do more to help themselves also told pollsters that they felt the government would have done more to aid victims of Hurricane Katrina had those victims been white. But it's clear that even with a strong racial consciousness, black people believe that the poor bear some responsibility for their troubles.

There is good reason for a majority of Americans to hold that belief. For anyone who wants to get out of poverty, the prescription is clear.

Finish high school, at least. Wait until your 20's before marrying, and wait until you're married before having children. Once you're in the work force, stay in: take any job, because building on the experience will prepare you for a better job. Any American who follows that prescription will be at almost no risk of falling into extreme poverty. Statistics show it.

The suspicion that the poor cause problems for themselves was at the heart of President Clinton's effort to "end welfare as we know it." It is also the guiding principle in the latest wave of poverty programs. Backed by private dollars from nonprofits and foundations, these programs encourage individual responsibility by rewarding the poor for getting high school diplomas, finding jobs and being good parents. There are programs to help determined inner-city residents find good jobs in the suburbs, where they can live in neighborhoods that haven't been defined for generations by the bad schools and rampant crime that breed poverty. The emphasis is on nurturing a will to do better.

Bill Cosby's controversial appeal, in 2004, for the poor to see "” and seize "” the opportunities available to them is in line with the inspiring African-American tradition of self-help and reliance on strong families and neighbors. There were complaints that he was blaming the victim, minimizing the power of racism, and failing to understand that larger social forces keep the poor "” especially black poor "” at the bottom of the economic ladder. But Mr. Cosby's critics ignored some sound advice: getting those in need to recognize that there is a way out, and that it's in their power to find it, is the best anti-poverty program.

The crisis in New Orleans has now been reduced to a matter of government financing for rebuilding homes while reviving the business community. But the real rebuilding project on the Gulf Coast requires bringing new energy to confronting the poverty of spirit. Because that's what was tearing down the city, long before Hurricane Katrina.



Juan Williams, a senior correspondent for NPR and a political analyst for Fox News Channel, is the author of "Enough: The Phony Leaders, Dead-End Movements and Culture of Failure That Are Undermining Black America."
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Hmm, this is just like Juan Williams article on getting past 9/11, where he spoke about how America imperialistic behavior all over the world led to planes being flown into the world trade center and pentagon. He also wrote in that article much like in this article that the real war on terror starts with stopping American terrorism and America backing of terrorist around the world working on behalf of American interest. I remember the last thing he wrote was winning the war on terrorism will require an end to American arrogance and hegemony. Any of y'all remember that article?
quote:
Originally posted by Faheem:
Hmm, this is just like Juan Williams article on getting past 9/11, where he spoke about how America imperialistic behavior all over the world led to planes being flown into the world trade center and pentagon. He also wrote in that article much like in this article that the real war on terror starts with stopping American terrorism and America backing of terrorist around the world working on behalf of American interest. I remember the last thing he wrote was winning the war on terrorism will require an end to American arrogance and hegemony. Any of y'all remember that article?


You were once an AGENT of terrorism then as you learned and practiced how to KILL OTHERS at the command of the American president.

Why do you still pay tax money to the beast in support of these terrorist actions?

(Say hi to your sleeper cell mates for me. )
quote:
Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:
quote:
Originally posted by Faheem:
Hmm, this is just like Juan Williams article on getting past 9/11, where he spoke about how America imperialistic behavior all over the world led to planes being flown into the world trade center and pentagon. He also wrote in that article much like in this article that the real war on terror starts with stopping American terrorism and America backing of terrorist around the world working on behalf of American interest. I remember the last thing he wrote was winning the war on terrorism will require an end to American arrogance and hegemony. Any of y'all remember that article?


You were once an AGENT of terrorism then as you learned and practiced how to KILL OTHERS at the command of the American president.

Why do you still pay tax money to the beast in support of these terrorist actions?

(Say hi to your sleeper cell mates for me. )


Yes indeed, I was once an agent for the government, however being the coward that you are, you would rather be a cheerleader than an actual player in the game of death. Taxes are taking out of my pay before it even touch my hands, it is not a situation where one can opt out, but Patriots like you can opt in the all volunteer military.
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A Pew Research Center poll (conducted the week after Hurricane Katrina) found that two-thirds of black Americans and three-quarters of white Americans believe that too many poor people are overly dependent on government aid.

...This is telling, because people of color and especially black Americans are more likely than whites to know someone who is struggling with poverty. According to the Census Bureau, 24.7 percent of black Americans and 21.9 percent of Hispanics lived in poverty in 2004, as compared to 8.6 percent of whites.


Hmmm.... Now, considering the disproportionate, if only the dominant, power the White MAJORITY has on constructing the debate and directing public policy because of their numbers... Well, perhaps our dear friend Juan can explain this puzzle.

He says, "POC are more likely than whites to know someone who is struggling with poverty", clearly a product of the way we live via Residential Segregation. But he doesn't explain how it is that Whites who, apparently, don't know as many poor people personally on avg. and who have fewer poor among them via their family and friend networks... How is it that 75% of Whites hold the views they do, out clipping Blacks, e.g. (at 66% anti-poor) when their experiential baseline (within their own race/kin) presents them with only 8% of people, White people one would assume they would have more personal knowledge of (people in professions that cause them to come in close contact with the "dark" poor notwithstanding)?

My dear Juan... something isn't adding up and trying to dismiss race from the equation won't help you solve that riddle you were so dutiful to ignore.
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He says, "POC are more likely than whites to know someone who is struggling with poverty", clearly a product of the way we live via Residential Segregation. But he doesn't explain how it is that Whites who, apparently, don't know as many poor people personally on avg. and who have fewer poor among them via their family and friend networks... How is it that 75% of Whites hold the views they do, out clipping Blacks, e.g. (at 66% anti-poor) when their experiential baseline (within their own race/kin) presents them with only 8% of people,



Damn... thats a killer there!! Therefore we can conclude that their opinions and beliefs about the poor are not from their own person experience but are from talking points conjured up in some Euro-centric think tank where Negro men and women like CF get their directions and talking points.
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Damn... thats a killer there!! Therefore we can conclude that their opinions and beliefs about the poor are not from their own person experience...


I would be interested in a poll, by Pew, etc. about views towards the poor sectioned off by race during the Reagan era. I'd just like to know if negative views about the poor have increased among Blacks since then. You know, since we've been in the midst of this CONservative era. And, of course, Clinton moved things to the right as it was anyway when it comes to welfare, affirmative action, etc.


Oh and, for some reason, dear old Juan didn't care to talk about there being MORE Whites on welfare or the stats on how welfare is cool(er) in states where the face of welfare is perceptably a White one vs. a Black one. Not to mention the Reagan era "Welfare" queen imagery which has impacted the public debate since that time.

And, whenever they get through... If Juan and all those folks quick to talk about "dependency" and "hand-outs"... I just want them to use those very terms in relation to White folks over the vast majority of American History. Suddenly, once Black folk started receiving welfare (under an already reformed plan upon them being included into the once All White club) then it became a problem.

White folks receiving what folks awkwardly call AFFIRMATIVE ACTION FOR WHITES, for some reason, isn't accompanied with all this language. Something has to account for that and clearly, it's conspicuously absent from Juan's commentary.

White folks in the less condescended but still concentrated poverty areas in this country don't draw the same type of public consternation. With that whopping 35%... Welfare/Poverty has a Black Face. And it ain't Black folk painting that image.

(Yes, for us it is disproportionate but it's been that way (and worst) for a while well before welfare wasn't cool.)


quote:
their opinions and beliefs about the poor are not from their own person experience... but are from talking points conjured up in some Euro-centric think tank where Negro men and women like CF get their directions and talking points.


Folks need to get out of this thing of acting like there is a BLACK ISLAND in this country. Like you said, We Are A Colonized People. Our minds are colonized too. When there are a number of Black folks who can't even talk about Reparations without pre-emptively adjusting their thoughts to what White folks think or echoing the arguments Whites themselves have made publically about Reparations, e.g., then this silly attempt to act like, "hey, Black folks have negative views about the poor" as if that reflects a genuine, unobstructed view... Well, it's just plain disingenuous.

It's Skin Deep analysis like this that will get your card pulled quick. So, yes, I'd really be interested in Black views over time and, even beyond that, how you separate them from Blacks assimilating "White" cultural norms in the first place.

It's clear Europeans, particularly those who founded this country, weren't that high on the poor, Whites or otherwise.

I challenge the Juan Williams' of the world to show how the views shown in the poll numbers about the ideas Blacks have... I challenge them to show how those things in some significant degree don't reflect views of the larger White society that Black folks have INTERNALIZED (just like racist, self-deprecating views).
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Here's an interesting thought...

quote:


"More and more, I'm coming around to the idea that this country needs a good Depression. A lot of the 19th century bullshit got wiped away when millions of comfortable middle and upper class folks found everything they worked for wiped away even though they were one of the hard-working elect chosen by God to be successful..."

News Blog Comments : William Davis | 09.01.06 - 11:19 am |
quote:
Oh and, for some reason, dear old Juan didn't care to talk about there being MORE Whites on welfare or the stats on how welfare is cool(er) in states where the face of welfare is perceptably a White one vs. a Black one. Not to mention the Reagan era "Welfare" queen imagery which has impacted the public debate since that time.


Nmaginate - you are a WEAK BITCH!

All of your RHETORIC is couched upon reporting the truth about WHITE FOLKS rather than ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING AMOUNG BLACK PEOPLE TO CHANGE OUR ABSOLUTE ECONOMIC CONDITIONS.

I re-read Juan Williams' piece thorougly and am amazed at how you could turn this into an ATTACK ON JUAN WILLIAMS. The article posts FACTS rather than OPINION. You can't deal with the FACTS so you go on the attack. A few weeks ago we debated Williams/Cosby vs Dyson. It is interesting that while you make sport of attacking Williams/Cosby as they key upon BLACK PEOPLE DOING SOMETHING you are silent as a church mouse when it comes to inspecting what Dyson proposes - NOTHING!!! Or at least nothing for BLACK FOLKS TO DO to change our condition. His and your plan is for WHITE FOLKS TO CHANGE so that Black folks will receive the benefit.

What BENEFIT is it in removing a single Black person off of welfare by noting that more White folks are on welfare? Is this from a strict NUMBERS stand point or from a PERCENTAGE of population stand point?

What ever was the working set of policies and assumptions in New Orleans THEY FAILED!!!!! With a poverty rate of upwards of 25% or more there was a bunch of UNEMPLOYMENT......Unemployed bodies not bringing home money to their families in exchange for services rendered and WORSE [u]unemployed MINDS disciplining their human mental capacities by working within a process of discovery[/u].

You are a good ATTACKER dude. You tickle me actually. I may be laughing at your latest tirade against me but inside I have a feeling of shame for you. You think that by beating everyone into agreeing with you THAT YOU ARE ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING TO IMPROVE THE CONDITION OF THESE PEOPLE..... YOU ARE NOT.

You, Dyson and others are only PREVENTING CHANGE AMONG THESE PEOPLE BY DEFENDING AND OR EXCUSING THEIR ECONOMIC BEHAVIOR AND THE CONTINUANCE OF THE PATTERNS OF LIVING THAT THEY EXIST UPON. Their actions in the context of the economy that they live in IS NOT WORTH MORE THAN THE POVERTY RATE TO ANYONE.

If you are really concerned WHY DON'T YOU TRANSFER SOME OF YOUR WAGES THAT ARE ABOVE POVERTY RATE OVER TO THEIR PLATE SO THAT YOU AND THEY CAN AVERAGE YOUR INCOMES TOGETHER AND BECOME EQUAL? Why do you need the WHITE MAN'S MONEY AND TAX POLICIES TO DO THIS?
quote:
Nmaginate - you are a WEAK BITCH!

All of your RHETORIC is couched upon reporting the truth about WHITE FOLKS rather than ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING AMOUNG BLACK PEOPLE TO CHANGE OUR ABSOLUTE ECONOMIC CONDITIONS.


Seriously, STFU!! When I've challenged you over and over to present PROVEN EFFECTIVE MODELS as an alternative to what you gripe about and you constantly SHRINK and hide from that, you don't have a damn thing to say to me about "doing something to change our absolute conditions." You've long since proven that yours is nothing but RHETORIC.

So spare my... You can huff and puff but you can't make a balloon out of the turd for logic you have.

"Reporting The Truth About White Folks"

Well, whatever that is, whatever issue you have with that, I'd like for you to explain how TRUTH TELLING is something negative.

I mean, you just tried to get some mileage out of "the article posts FACTS rather than OPINION" and you're commenting on how I've TOLD/reported THE TRUTH? C'mon, son... You will have to do better than that.

Note: You can say "Liberal" or even "White people" this and that a thousand times and you can't turn them into bad words just because you need them to be in order to have something on your side. In other words, this RHETORIC doesn't work. And, as usual, you HATE YOUR OWN SELF with the stuff you say. But you can explain what makes my "TRUTH TELLING" some that carries the negative connotation you keep begging for it to have.


quote:
I re-read Juan Williams' piece thorougly and am amazed at how you could turn this into an ATTACK ON JUAN WILLIAMS.


And you won't be getting any mileage out of this BS either.

Juan Williams ain't god!!! So "ATTACKING" him is no sin. Scramble, run, jump... Do whatever you can, whatever you wish but you won't spin a partisan negative into this.

So use words like "ATTACK" all you want, they only show how schitz for brains you really are when it comes to standing toe-to-toe. I can't help it if Williams was so quick to march out there with a half-azzed analysis and/or half-azzed reporting of "THE FACTS."

The dude did in fact insert his OPINION when he said, "THIS IS TELLING..." The question then was: What Is It Telling? So when I speak to WHAT IT TELLS US (those "facts" or stats) then the only "ATTACK" is one on the superficial, symptomatic ignorance Williams displayed.

Never does Williams speak to how those numbers have come to be or WHY they are so "TELLING". He just trots the numbers out there and implies that they "tell" something that fits his OPINION. Either you can address what I've actually said, show how it is in error or you can't.

Calling it an "ATTACK" doesn't do that. It shows how weak you are for here we have you again, not saying a damn thing about what I actually said. You're just ranting and raving because I said it (something you want to disagree with but otherwise can't - logically, etc.).


quote:
Oh and, for some reason, dear old Juan didn't care to talk about there being MORE Whites on welfare or the stats on how welfare is cool(er) in states where the face of welfare is perceptably a White one vs. a Black one. Not to mention the Reagan era "Welfare" queen imagery which has impacted the public debate since that time.


Either you can dispute my point about how Whites set the agenda and how some of what's reflected in "Black Views", the stats on Black attitudes on welfare, is a by-product of how The Terms Of The Debate have been set in this country since Day One.... OR .... you can take your BS on somewhere. None of your BS matters unless you "attack" my thesis and show it to be wrong or flawed.

That you haven't suggest that you can't. So that explains why you're trying to get another one of your Dime A Dozen RANTS On, saying schitz just for the effect because none of that BS you say has a lick of substance to it. Like this:


quote:
What BENEFIT is it in removing a single Black person off of welfare by noting that more White folks are on welfare?


When you can demonstrate how your RHETORIC or something Williams has said has some "benefit" as it relates to "removing Black people off welfare rolls" then you can throw this BS into the mix.

quote:
What ever was the working set of policies and assumptions in New Orleans THEY FAILED!!!!!


And neither you or Williams come up with EFFECTIVE ALTERNATIVES. You have thereby FAILED to be relevant (to say something relevant).

quote:

With a poverty rate of upwards of 25% or more there was a bunch of UNEMPLOYMENT......Unemployed bodies not bringing home money to their families in exchange for services rendered and WORSE [u]unemployed MINDS disciplining their human mental capacities by working within a process of discovery[/u].


ENGLISH!!! Not only did you not complete your thought but you never clearly began to articulate an actual point. "With poverty rate upwards of 25%"... WHAT?


quote:
You think that by beating everyone into agreeing with you THAT YOU ARE ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING TO IMPROVE THE CONDITION OF THESE PEOPLE..... YOU ARE NOT.


sck

STOP PROJECTING. I don't give a damn whether anyone agrees with me or not. TRY AGAIN!!


quote:
If you are really concerned WHY DON'T YOU TRANSFER SOME OF YOUR WAGES.... yada... yada... (ANOTHER DIME A DOZEN RANT).


Either you can PRODUCE information, some PROVEN EFFECTIVE MODELS that serve as an alternative to the things you take issue with or you can stop pretending that you're "concerned" about what's "EFFECTIVE" outside of making your notably partisan rants for (apparently) no other real reason than partisan ones.
quote:
I have done your bidding SEVERAL TIMES only for you to play your games and trash even the most reasonable suggestions.


You ain't done schitz but point to stuff off the topic. Again, just like that "Black wife" logic of yours, you don't have anything exceptional in the way of your family and the values they've instilled in you. YOUR FAMILY isn't what you run your mouth about when you gripe about "EFFECTIVENESS."

The two don't exist on the same plane. You can't confuse (via obfuscation) what is crystal clear: You run your mouth about the lack of "EFFECTIVENESS"... but don't have a clue of what an actual EFFECTIVE ALTERNATIVE is.

Just saying "DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT" doesn't tell us what to do much less how much success or how "EFFECTIVE" taking a different course will be.

Your partisan BS is SEE THROUGH. Your ineptitude... blatant.
quote:
Your partisan BS is SEE THROUGH. Your ineptitude... blatant.


Read your posts from above and see who is the IDEOLOGUE/PARTISAN.

You seem COMFORTED by the fact that there are more White folks on welfare than Blacks. You continuously express this "as long as they are down in the mud with me everything is alright" concept to cover for your FAILURE to propose anything that might lift BLACK FOLKS who are in the mud out VIA THEIR DIRECT ACTIONS to contribute toward this effort.

YOU CAN DISMISS ALL OF MY WORDS AS RHETORIC ALL YOU WISH.
All that I ask is that you follow the notion that you put forth that says "most Black people are in agreement with YOU rather than ME with some sort of ACCOUNTABILITY and OWNERSHIP of the problems that the FAILED LEADERSHIP and inability to solve the core problems of Black people that have come with your ideological dominance.

Start from the standpoint of THIS IS THE INTERNAL PROBLEMS that "people who think like me" have accomplished rather than only talking about how your ideology was handy to get WHITE FOLKS to stop beating the hell out of us because now the US GOVERNMENT punishes them if they are out of line. Stand and account punk.

I told you that "MY PEOPLE" and the "PEOPLE WHO THINK LIKE ME" are my FAMILY. These are the only SKIN FOLK that I have any measure of control over. They strive to up hold the surname RATHER THAN LOOKING AT who else is in the mud. We try to keep the mud off of the name place and HELP THOSE WHO ARE IN NEED OF HELP.
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You seem COMFORTED by the fact that there are more White folks on welfare than Blacks.


I don't "seem" anything. Either you can deal with what I said or you can't. I spoke to the reality of there being not only more White folks on welfare but the disdain for the poor often is correlated with how welfare gets painted with a Black face.

Simply, you are not in your league. Posting for DUMMIES is hosted on a different url.

quote:

I told you that "MY PEOPLE" and the "PEOPLE WHO THINK LIKE ME" are my FAMILY.


More silly rambling... You also tried to come back and say that you "love your Black people." And you were not talking about your family then.

Dude, stop wasting my time with your weasel BS. Timid azz...
quote:
Hmmm.... Now, considering the disproportionate, if only the dominant, power the White MAJORITY has on constructing the debate and directing public policy because of their numbers... Well, perhaps our dear friend Juan can explain this puzzle.

He says, "POC are more likely than whites to know someone who is struggling with poverty", clearly a product of the way we live via Residential Segregation. But he doesn't explain how it is that Whites who, apparently, don't know as many poor people personally on avg. and who have fewer poor among them via their family and friend networks... How is it that 75% of Whites hold the views they do, out clipping Blacks, e.g. (at 66% anti-poor) when their experiential baseline (within their own race/kin) presents them with only 8% of people, White people one would assume they would have more personal knowledge of (people in professions that cause them to come in close contact with the "dark" poor notwithstanding)?


Please translate your manifesto above IF YOU ARE NOT attempting to shift the focus on the troubles of WHITE FOLKS.

How does your comments work to relieve a single Black person off of the welfare roles rather than note that THEY HAVE COMPANY in the mud pit FROM WHITE FOLKS?
quote:
Please translate your manifesto above...


There is no "manifesto" there and, therefore, nothing for me to "translate". Oh but you can try to speak ENGLISH one of these days:

quote:
With a poverty rate of upwards of 25% or more there was a bunch of UNEMPLOYMENT......Unemployed bodies not bringing home money to their families in exchange for services rendered and WORSE [u]unemployed MINDS disciplining their human mental capacities by working within a process of discovery[/u].


Spit it out, son...


quote:
How does your comments work to relieve a single Black person off of the welfare roles rather than note that THEY HAVE COMPANY in the mud pit FROM WHITE FOLKS?


Ahem...

When you can demonstrate how your RHETORIC or something Williams has said has some "benefit" as it relates to "removing Black people off welfare rolls" then you can throw this BS into the mix.

You game? I thought not... Silly partisan. sck

You already said I "TOLD THE TRUTH". When it was Williams, you tried to feign like such "truth telling" is apolitical or, rather, non-opinionated and thereby not something to "attack."

Why do you keep having problems with the very ideas you put out there? You're "attacking" me because I "told the truth"?

Spit it out, son...

quote:
Please translate your manifesto above IF YOU ARE NOT attempting to shift the focus...


Silly Rabbit... I attempted to focus on things beyond the surface. Williams citation and treatment of those stats was superficial, at best.

My Post from September 01, 2006 10:24 PM says the "focus" is not one White folks but on the root issue involved here.

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It's Skin Deep analysis like this that will get your card pulled quick. So, yes, I'd really be interested in Black views over time and, even beyond that, how you separate them from Blacks assimilating "White" cultural norms in the first place.

It's clear Europeans, particularly those who founded this country, weren't that high on the poor, Whites or otherwise.

I challenge the Juan Williams' of the world to show how the views shown in the poll numbers about the ideas Blacks have... I challenge them to show how those things in some significant degree don't reflect views of the larger White society that Black folks have INTERNALIZED (just like racist, self-deprecating views).


That says my focus is on that simple, but too hard for you to fathom question of WHY? (i.e. What accounts for and make up BLACK VIEWS?)

Anytime you get through... Anytime you're ready, son.
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quote:
"Why are so many black Americans, people born inside the gates of American opportunity, still living as if they were locked out from all America has to offer?" - Juan Williams, liberal commentator and author of Enough: The Phony Leaders, Dead-End Movements, And Culture Of Failure That Are Undermining Black America - And What We Can Do About It



The wise words of Juan Williams to all of the DISCONTENTED KNEEGROWS who are too infected with "conditioned hopelessness" to take full benefit of America and too TIMID to actually LEAVE.

Don't worry - other "Funny Talking Melanated people are coming into this country without the conditioned hopeless state and are doing what your leaders said could not be done because of their race.
quote:
Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:

The wise words of Juan Williams to all of the DISCONTENTED KNEEGROWS who are too infected with "conditioned hopelessness" to take full benefit of America and too TIMID to actually LEAVE.


CF how are you taking "full benefit of America"? Have you started your engineering/technology company yet or are you still getting your jollies from being invited to attend conferences? lol

Are you a billionaire yet CF? Have you created anything that adds value to others yet CF? If not - WHY NOT? Others in this country have, why are you not taking advantage of the "full benefit" of what America offers?
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
quote:
Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:

The wise words of Juan Williams to all of the DISCONTENTED KNEEGROWS who are too infected with "conditioned hopelessness" to take full benefit of America and too TIMID to actually LEAVE.


CF how are you taking "full benefit of America"? Have you started your engineering/technology company yet or are you still getting your jollies from being invited to attend conferences? lol

Are you a billionaire yet CF? Have you created anything that adds value to others yet CF? If not - WHY NOT? Others in this country have, why are you not taking advantage of the "full benefit" of what America offers?


PLEASE NOTE THE KEY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ME AND YOU (but admittedly more so OTHERS on this message board): I DO NOT DENY MY BENEFIT FROM BEING IN AMERICA.

I DO NOT CHEERLEAD THAT AMERICA'S ENEMIES MIGHT BE VICTORIOUS OVER US

I DON'T PRETEND THAT THE GASOLINE THAT I PUMP FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD BP STATION COMES FROM A WELL IN THE GROUND RIGHT THERE BUT INSTEAD IS A FUNCTION OF THE AMERICAN MILITARY'S ABILITY TO KEEP THE SHIPPING CHANNELS OPEN FOR COMMERCE.

I AM A CO-CONSPIRATOR IN AMERICAN CAPITALISM. CAN YOU ADMIT THIS?

So my point IS NOT "America love it or leave it"
IT IS "America - stop being a CO-CONSPIRATOR THAT THAT WHICH YOU HATE".

If you don't like the POLICIES don't eat the FRUIT until the POLICIES ARE CHANGED. Your dollars given each day are BALLOTS that represent YOUR VOTE for the status quo.
Here's the big difference between you and me CF. I've got the balls to think that I can make a difference in this country. I also believe enough in myself to think that I can positively impact my community, my country, and, in fact, my world in ways that are consistent with my beliefs.

You, on the other hand, have conditioned yourself to just shut up and take whatever America gives you - just to be damned thankful for whatever crumbs that you've been able to muster. You get to go to a conference every few years and you're happy.
quote:
I AM A CO-CONSPIRATOR IN AMERICAN CAPITALISM. CAN YOU ADMIT THIS?

So my point IS NOT "America love it or leave it"
IT IS "America - stop being a CO-CONSPIRATOR THAT THAT WHICH YOU HATE".

If you don't like the POLICIES don't eat the FRUIT until the POLICIES ARE CHANGED. Your dollars given each day are BALLOTS that represent YOUR VOTE for the status quo.


Dude, that makes no sense. You are exactly telling those that have problems with america's governance to "love it or leave it." But seem to find comfort in "america: if she fucks me hard/long enough, maybe I'll get a chance to fuck, too" stance. Message to CF: One who is being raped is not making love.

Most others here recognize that the america of our birth provides us with a great many benefit. So what? Does that mean that we should not comment on/work to address america's failings?
quote:
You are exactly telling those that have problems with america's governance to "love it or leave it."


Even in all his SELF-HATE, he hasn't resolved to complete divest himself from the Black Community. In fact, the height of his hypocrisy has been shown when he has admitted to supporting (via viewing and listening to) the movies and music of those "SAMBOS" whom he pretends he can't stand.

Neither has he divested from and not been a "co-conspirator" with the type of Black folk he has ideological issues with. Dude will brag that he supports Black bookstores, owners of which, by and large, don't hold hands with him ideologically.

Simply put, he has all these issues with the Black community but he's still trying to claim it. To be a part of it even when he feels "intimidated", smothered and marginalized like he's part of some oppressed minority within the group.

Well, actually he fluctuates between not claiming the Black community and more or less completely disowning it. I mean, he will reference any number of "Funny Speaking Melanated" people as Model Minorities but can't seem to bring himself speak to (comparable) "Best Practices" Black folks themselves do. He'd rather celebrate what others do while suggesting that there is little value in Black Culture and in what Black people (the native-born, descendants of AFRICANS enslaved and subjected to Jim Crow) do themselves.

Somehow, he feels like he can criticize but don't have to follow his own advice. Clearly, if he did then he would have to completely divest from the Black Community. His transition is not complete. He's only gone part of the way. He knows the consequences of completely denouncing his "rights" to being "Black". He knows he can't even conceive of having an ounce of legitimacy if he boldly denounced or divested himself...
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Originally posted by MBM:just to be damned thankful for whatever crumbs that you've been able to muster.


You mean - kinda like the people in New Orleans?

Crumbs he says. 18


I am thankful for the PLATFORM that I am afforded.
Beyond this I know that it is up to ME to make use of the resources that are scattered at my feet and BUILD SOMETHING from them.

I wish that you would take the same voice that you use against me - an otherwise successful Black man by most measures - AND APPLY IT TO THE BLACK MEN who are falling short of their obligations. When you do THIS - and not DEFEND THEM because they are "VICTIMS" but instead tell them that THEY HAVE OTHER CHOICES. Tell them that WE NEED THEIR BRAINPOWER to CONTRIBUTE TO THE SOLUTION rather than having it being used in a way that requires law enforcement monitoring......THEN you will be doing something MBM. Right now you are not impressing anyone.
quote:
Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:

I wish that you would take the same voice that you use against me - an otherwise successful Black man by most measures - AND APPLY IT TO THE BLACK MEN who are falling short of their obligations. When you do THIS - and not DEFEND THEM because they are "VICTIMS" but instead tell them that THEY HAVE OTHER CHOICES. Tell them that WE NEED THEIR BRAINPOWER to CONTRIBUTE TO THE SOLUTION rather than having it being used in a way that requires law enforcement monitoring......THEN you will be doing something MBM. Right now you are not impressing anyone.


Please show me where I have suggested this. I'll await your answer.

Beyond that, victimhood has nothing to do with "personal responsibility". One can acknowledge that they are victims of something (cancer, sexism, racism, etc.) while also being focused on overcoming that obstacle. To presume otherwise is mere political buffoonery.
What a riot! lol

"LAME" he says but then says he's grateful for THE CRUMBS - i.e. "resources" scattered (like crumbs) at his feet!! 20

Too funny....

quote:
I am thankful for the PLATFORM that I am afforded.
Beyond this I know that it is up to ME to make use of the resources that are scattered at my feet and BUILD SOMETHING from them.

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