Skip to main content

Hi everyone my name is Darren Monroe and I head the worlds only neosoul website called
www.4DaSoul.com

We recently published a story about Jill Scott's comments HERE

Instead of talking about the problem I have begun disscusion groups on several boards around the country to ask women and men for some solutions.

Please feel free to offer any you have by posting here

Thanks again .

Darren Monroe
www.4dasoul.com
Our Myspace page
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Welcome to the site Darren...

I hope you plan to stay...

I'm a lover of neosoul.... practically obsessed! I checked out your site and see you have Amel Larrieux listed.. a favorite of mine...

It would be nice if your intent is to stay and contribute to the board... You could start a thread regarding the Jill Scott article..... in either Issues and Politics or the Sistas Spot...

however, if not, would you be so kind and place this advertisement in the forum below called PUBLICIZE IT HERE????

That way those who are not here to contribute beyond advertising will not interfere with regular dialogue...

Also, you are welcomed to introduce yourself in the NEW MEMBER INTRODUCTIONS section of the forum....

Thank you for the info. I'll continue to check out your site... I like the idea... a lot...

tfro


Peace,
Virtue
Thank you for the welcome.

You have a cute way of putting things. I wouldnt consider my post nor should you a "advertisement" After all as a former "DefJAm" staff I am sure I could be a little more blunt that this lol!!

We really are asking people to read the artilce and offer some serious suggestions to some serious solutions.

Instead of cutting and pasting is there anyway someone (board operator) could transfer this to the politics or where ever you feel it should be more suited?

Thanks again.

Darren "not sneaking in advertisements" Monroe
www.4DaSoul.com opps was that an advertisement? lol.
quote:
Originally posted by 4DaSoul:
Much love to you my sista!!


One... tfro



Here is the article:


Jill Scott Discusses Negative Images
July 3rd, 2006

By KRISTIE RIEKEN Associated Press




HOUSTON - The portrayal of black women in popular music and videos is too often degrading and the black community must find a way to change these images, best-selling singer Jill Scott said Monday.


"It is dirty, inappropriate, inadequate, unhealthy and polluted," Scott said. "We can demand more."



Scott spoke before a panel that discussed the issue took the stage at the Essence Music Festival's empowerment seminars as part of the magazine's Take Back the Music campaign.


Actor Shemar Moore, rapper Common and former video dancer, Karrine Steffans, who wrote the book "Confessions of a Video Vixen," concerning her exploits, were part of the discussion.



The panel addressed the dangers these images present to young girls and said education and self-esteem will help keep them from believing this is a proper representation of black women.


"Ladies you are queens and you need to believe it," Moore said. "What do you want and what are you willing to do to get it?"


Steffans believes a lack of self-esteem allowed her to degrade herself in videos for virtually all the big names in hip hop.


"I was always told I was ugly," she said. "I didn't realize my own power and my own worth."



Scott told the audience that if they are offended by these images, they should stop buying the albums and encourage the people in their lives to do the same.


"This is about choosing what we will allow in our lives," she said. "We can force things. We can change things. Challenge the music industry with your purchasing power."



Scott used an eloquent speech, interlaced with song, to illustrate that black women are more than their sexuality and that music should represent that.


"There are many stories to be told that aren't about our sexuality," Scott said.


I love Jill Scott...

I think the bolded parts of the article sum up best my feelings on the subject...


Peace,
Virtue
Ahhhhhhhhh please shut the hell up Jill. You know that most Neosoul artist are the biggest f*ing pot heads in the world. Do to them being fake ass Rastas. Ask your gurl Badu how the pot is good Indo. I'm a thick gal myself. But aren't you yourself being over weight having a negative image on young girls. Thinking that it is ok to be the size you are. I doubt you can go up 2 sets of chairs without getting out of breath.
quote:
Originally posted by StaryeYenightess:
Ahhhhhhhhh please shut the hell up Jill. You know that most Neosoul artist are the biggest f*ing pot heads in the world. Do to them being fake ass Rastas. Ask your gurl Badu how the pot is good Indo. I'm a thick gal myself. But aren't you yourself being over weight having a negative image on young girls. Thinking that it is ok to be the size you are. I doubt you can go up 2 sets of chairs without getting out of breath.


Where did this come from? Jill Scott is healthy... her weight has come down significantly after she changed her diet and exercise habits...... and if I'm not mistaken her issue was with the negative sexualization of young girls....

Do you have an opinion of this?



Peace,
Virtue
Some black women are gonna be big , thats not unhealthy or anthing thats just how they are made. We are not Europoeans our bone and body structures are different.To say Jill and Erica Badu are fake Rastas is so ignorant. Why cant we express ourselves, because she wears he hair natural, wear African clothes and talk about black love and unity is that trying to be Rasta. Anyway all Rasta means is African love.
Why the hell aren't Africans fat. Because most of them eat healthy. On a readily would you see a fat African. Why are Black Americans fat. We just eat to many Burgers. Wearing your natural and wearing African clothing is another thing. Jill, Erica, Common, Taibe, Musiq and the rest. Are just big pot heads. Then they try to mask it by saying don't do Drugs. Which according to them just means anything that isn't pot. Sexualization. Yeah right. Have you heard their songs. They just figure since they don't say the sexual word. But use a metaphor it's ok. Yes they are fake Rastas. They just take their asses to Accua, Ghana for a Beach vacation. Like most Black Americans. But don't do sh*t to help the locals. Then go on some long tour of old slave ports. Then start crying over happen. Just come back with some dumb ass story about feeling at home. Little do they know Europeans weren't going to Africa for slaves.
Just plain ignorant!!thats all. Have you met any women from Africa.If you did you would know there are plenty of big boned women from all over the continent. Sistas there come in the variety of shapes and sizes sistas here come in. Obviously you dont know what the hell you talking about. Marijuanna is an Herb, crack is a drug. You dont have to alter an herb , it takes compounds to make drugs. Get the hell off your high horse, no one is perfect, and neither are you.
No not ignorant just telling the truth. I never said I was prefect. I would like to know. I meet many Africans they eat pretty healthy. Health doesn't make you fat. Of course there are rounder Africans. I didn't say their wasn't. But you barely see any them. The only ones you do is are Woman after years of giving birth. Or course your body is going to be rounder. I doubt Jill and friends smoke natural pot like our Ancestors did. Which didn't kill your brain cells. More then likely they get their pot from Ziggy on the block. Which more then likely had chemicals in it. I never said I hated Jill Scott. She a great singer. But I don't know where she's getting the negative thing from. She's never looked into her own music to find negative ness. Just assuming her and the others using metaphor is ok. Which then makes the music some how positive.
hmmmm... Actually I've never looked at it that way.... not fully...... I can appreciate it though

I do hear what you're saying... there are songs where I'm lulled by the music and lyrics only to be hit with something vulgar and unexpected....

though, while I'm flooded with it in rap....

I am hit only occasionally with neosoul...

and am provided with far more positive content than not...

what are your thoughts?



Peace,
Virtue
quote:
Originally posted by virtue:

Scott told the audience that if they are offended by these images, they should stop buying the albums and encourage the people in their lives to do the same.


Amen.

I'm beginning to wonder how far the offense is spread or how comfortable the tired feel about expressing themselves.

Why when so many music videos don't cater to women, are the audiences for shows like 106 & Park so full of women?

Why did (do they still?) women in the audience stand up and say, Uh. . .I like it. . .Uh, it has a hot beat, when a new exploitive video would air.

The reason for the love of the video from the male rep was clear. "Fine video girls."

The reason the artist would give for why it's a good video was the booty.

And the audience would clap.

So the selling point was clear. Didn't all of the booty bouncing fail to entertain them, too?

I assume that's the case when the women didn't mention it at all.

But if that's so, why the women wouldn't critique the selling point of the video? Why clap when someone else gave it a positive review?

It's a rare day that I watch such things anymore. And I don't buy the music. Not at Target, anyway.

When there are a bunch of videos with women jiggling thonged backsides with fully clothed men in the background, that music isn't marketed to me anyway.

I'm not so much offended that there is sexploitive videos. It's the degree. And the lack of balance.

And the attitude towards women that accompany such videos.

Especially from a genre that's supposedly about respect.
WHOA!! StaryeYenightess how can you compare Neo Soul , Nu Soul artists who have women in their video to the rappers who have women in theirs? Did I miss something?

How is a sista in a Neo Soul video portraying a NEGATIVE image? I may agree on the "stereotype of what a neo soul sista would look like but the emphisis is the negative images and how do we begin to bring solutions to that?
quote:
Originally posted by StaryeYenightess:
I know that. Neosoul does the same thing. They just use metaphor. Instead of having the oil up girl in a swimsuit. They use the natural hair beauty in African clothing. But yet still saying the same thing as their rapper counterparts. They just use metaphor for their objectification. It's ok according to them.
But same HOW? How is a sista in a neo soul video compared to a negative image of a stripper girl in a rapper video for instance.

My question is how does a the woman in a neo soul video equate to the same negative image in the rap video?

quote:
Originally posted by StaryeYenightess:
Samething. Just chance the clothing and hair and use a metaphor.
quote:
Originally posted by StaryeYenightess:
It's the same negative. Just change the physical and use metaphor. Instead of a club use a cafe. Instead of telling her shake it hoe. They just say Coco Goddess. Why can't she just be beautiful woman. No no she has to be the coco goddess. She is being lusted after like she is not a human. No different.


Sister, to what videos are you referring??? I was understanding your point to mean lyrics....

when comparing the two genres....

you must see that one (hip-hop/r&b) vidoes are more heavily laden with the objectification of women.... than those of neo soul....

for instance I'm heavily into Amel Larrieux none of her videos portray women negatively...


also, there is a huge difference between sensuallity.... which women just are and sexuality ..... which is an act....

neo soul when it is present tends to portray the former.....

which means when a woman is looked upon by men it is not for her sexual organs...

but the very embodiment of her femaleness...

neo soul tends to represent deeper the interactions between men and women.....

yes, a cafe is infinitely better than the club....

one goes to the club for sex, one night stands or dancing (in ways like sex)..

one goes to the cafe for food, reading, general conversation, and mocha latte'.....

cocoa goddess.... infinitely better than ho..



Peace,
Virtue
quote:
Originally posted by StaryeYenightess:
It's the same negative. Just change the physical and use metaphor. Instead of a club use a cafe. Instead of telling her shake it hoe. They just say Coco Goddess. Why can't she just be beautiful woman. No no she has to be the coco goddess. She is being lusted after like she is not a human. No different.


For the record, I for one think I see what you're saying ... an object is an object ... whether the object is a cocoa goddess ... or the object is a ho ... and whether it's 'negative' objectification or 'positive' objectification it's still objectification ... ? Hot or cold?
If being put on a pedestal and portrayed as a goddess is such a great thing and so empowering ... why did white women need women's lib?

what does it matter? I mean why do you always use white people as the yardstick. I think thats actually our problem men, and women. They white man isnt the criteria , Before there ever were a whiteman or white woman there were black godesses, and black gods.I dont know if black women should be put on pedestals, but if we valued them as the mothers of civilization,it would go a long ways to healing our people. I believe we have such little value for our women and visa versa, we began to believe we are somehow less. we are not less we are the strongest of all the people on earth.Just like the pyramids at Gaza even though we been beaten and battered we are still standing.
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:
If being put on a pedestal and portrayed as a goddess is such a great thing and so empowering ... why did white women need women's lib?

what does it matter? I mean why do you always use white people as the yardstick. I think thats actually our problem men, and women. They white man isnt the criteria , Before there ever were a whiteman or white woman there were black godesses, and black gods....



"Yard stick" is not the proper term for what it is that I'm doing ... the fact is that if you know something doesn't work for somebody else ... it might just be the case it won't work for you either ...

If a white man eats something and then immediately falls where he stands and gets sick and I'm watching the whole time ... then you know what? .... I'm not going to walk behind him and eat the same goddamned thing... It would be just plain dumb to think "I'm a black god ... it won't phase me ... let me eat this here." The same would apply if the guy was Asian or African ...

That's not using someone as a "yard stick" ... that's paying attention to history and human experience to see if there's something I can learn from it ...

To do otherwise is the epitome of stupidity ....

I wasn't recommending that we not value black women ... the point was entirely different ...

Let the black gods not repeat the mistakes of others ...


For the record, I was only attempting to enliven the conversation by trying to appreciate staryeYenightess's point. No one else seemed to.
Last edited {1}
Being a goddess is the highest thing poetically that a brother expressing his desire for a woman used...

to overanalyze it and criticize such a heartfelt gesture just shows that one is completely alienated from the intimate interaction and appreciation between some Black men and Black women...

when in the middle of praise that you don't share its best to leave the conversation....

rather than admit you don't understand how some one is that praiseworthy...

save your praise then for those that you think are worthy.....

and if its white women.... why bother at all with brothers that see their sisters at the highest level of existence in their minds... stop interfering with Black men and women who love one another.... spending your time trying to knock the Black woman off a pedestal that she rarely gets placed upon...

go knock the white woman off her pedestal...

an outdated and overused "object" indeed...
Just my two cents...

Most music videos and songs for that matter, objectify. The video or song has an object that is the topic or theme of the music. The question is: How is the objectification presented?

Is it scantily clad, gyrating women or modestly dressed women drinking tea at a bookstore. Of course one is more provocative, but both still objectify.

from Merriam-Webster Online:
to give expression to (as an abstract notion, feeling, or ideal) in a form that can be experienced by others


One's cultural and moral sensibilities may consider one "positive objectification" and the other "negative objectification" (if there are such degrees of objectification).

There is also an underlying assumption that the intent of the neo-soul presentation is heartfelt. With all the money to be made in the music industry, I'm not sure this is a safe assumption.

The other commentary is a squabble I'm not involved in (Thank Goodness!!), so I'll wrap up right here.
quote:
Originally posted by virtue/Khalliqa:
Being a goddess is the highest thing poetically that a brother expressing his desire for a woman used...

to overanalyze it and criticize such a heartfelt gesture just shows that one is completely alienated from the intimate interaction and appreciation between some Black men and Black women...

when in the middle of praise that you don't share its best to leave the conversation....

rather than admit you don't understand how some one is that praiseworthy...

save your praise then for those that you think are worthy.....

and if its white women.... why bother at all with brothers that see their sisters at the highest level of existence in their minds... stop interfering with Black men and women who love one another.... spending your time trying to knock the Black woman off a pedestal that she rarely gets placed upon...

go knock the white woman off her pedestal...

an outdated and overused "object" indeed...



Virtue, would you please take the time to actually read and understand my post before you bother responding to it.

I have no problem using "goddess" as a heartfelt poetic address to a black woman. No problems whatsoever.

And I don't put white women on a pedestal. Only the sloppiest and most willfully perverse reading of anything I've written on this board could cause someone to come to that conclusion.

The subject was MUSIC VIDEOS ... and ddouble just said it best:

quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:
Just my two cents...

Most music videos and songs for that matter, objectify. The video or song has an object that is the topic or theme of the music. The question is: How is the objectification presented?

Is it scantily clad, gyrating women or modestly dressed women drinking tea at a bookstore. Of course one is more provocative, but both still objectify.

from Merriam-Webster Online:
to give expression to (as an abstract notion, feeling, or ideal) in a form that can be experienced by others


One's cultural and moral sensibilities may consider one "positive objectification" and the other "negative objectification" (if there are such degrees of objectification).

There is also an underlying assumption that the intent of the neo-soul presentation is heartfelt. With all the money to be made in the music industry, I'm not sure this is a safe assumption.


And this is the only point I was trying to make. I also think it is the point staryeYenightess was making ... though I'll let her speak for herself ...
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
Virtue, would you please take the time to actually read and understand my post before you bother responding to it.

I have no problem using "goddess" as a heartfelt poetic address to a black woman. No problems whatsoever.

And I don't put white women on a pedestal.


I actually was going to apologize, thinking I misread your sentiment...

until I read this...

quote:
Only the the sloppiest reading of anything I've written on this board could cause someone to cometo that conclusion.

The subject was MUSIC VIDEOS ... and ddouble just said it best


Okay..
quote:
Originally posted by virtue/Khalliqa:
I actually was going to apologize, thinking I misread your sentiment...

until I read this...

quote:
Only the the sloppiest reading of anything I've written on this board could cause someone to cometo that conclusion.


Okay..



and the quoted piece was preceded by

quote:

I have no problem using "goddess" as a heartfelt poetic address to a black woman. No problems whatsoever.

And I do not put white women on a pedestal.


You did misread my sentiment. On several levels.

Add Reply

Post
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×