Skip to main content

Hello Vox,

...and incidents such as this are the reason why I state again, the major factor that keeps Black people in bondage is not Caucasian America, but rather very destructive activity based on greed, sleaze, hatred, ignorance, etc., that Black people commit against each other that keep Black people in poverty, or result in senseless acts of violence that are genocidal in nature.

....and Black people continue to reach back to the days of slavery to blame Caucasian America for our predicament rather than to face fact that we must be more respectful to each other and ourselves.

In answer to Rodney King's question, "Can we all get along?" Evidently the answer must be no, because more Black people have been maimed, or killed as a result of "Black on Black Crime" in twenty years, than all the years of the vestibule of Slavery by Caucasian America or otherwise.

David Duke, the Aryan Nation, must be saying, or perhaps laughing quietly to themselves,..... all we have to do is supply Black people with enough guns and ammunition, and our problem of ridding the world of Black people will be solved in record time, without a single Klan member pulling the trigger. When the smoke clears, when no one is left standing, or living, then any assets or resources owned by Black people, can easily be acquired by anyone, because there will be no other Black people around to defend their wives, children, families, property, land, etc.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

[This message was edited by Lofton on October 30, 2002 at 09:51 PM.]
Negrospiritual,

"I have a serious question?????

Are there no white people who have killed other white people? by negrospiritual

"I coulda freed thousands more if only they had known they were slaves..." by negrospiritual

I think it would be better for you to answer your own stupid question. Or perhaps someone else on this board may be kind enough to enlighten you!

Apparantly, you haven't spent much time in the inner-city, or around any predominately Black community, such as Detroit, Baltimore, East St. Louis, South Central Los Angeles when it was predominately Black, Compton, Ca., when it was predominately Black, etc., because very few escape being shot, stabbed, raped, robbed, murdered, etc. Virtually any given day, in any "Killer King, Butcher King Hospital, the emergency room is filled with Black people who have been shot, stabbed, seriously wounded, etc.

Caucasian Americans and/or others gain expertise in the treatment of military type injuries during times of peace, and/or free body organs, to which you can thank the uncouth, the ignorant, the disrespectful, the evil, within the community of Black America for such an unusual opportunity, that would be rare within any community of Caucasian American or otherwise.

Apparantly, you have not seen the senseless bloodshed that exists, or has existed for years within our community. In any contest of self destruction, Black America, would win hands down, with little competition. I'm sure Mr. Bankins would agree, because much of what has been stated, it is certain that he has seen, or know this to be true in Baltimore.

Although Caucasians, Koreans, etc., live in poverty as well, they do not commit nearly as many senseless crimes against their own people as found in any Black community.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton
quote:
Originally posted by Lofton:
Hello Vox,

...and incidents such as this are the reason why I state again, the major factor that keeps Black people in bondage is not Caucasian America, but rather very destructive activity based on greed, sleaze, hatred, ignorance, etc., that Black people commit against each other that keep Black people in poverty, or result in senseless acts of violence that are genocidal in nature.




Who said that this was done by other black people anyway? Aren't you jumping the gun rather severely?
The reference to Negrospiritual's rhetorical question as a "stupid question" is way out of line. I'm sure these posts will get deleted, but I think a pretty good would-be discussion of the relevance of the term "black on black crime" just got completely destroyed before it even got started. I'm sorry I started this thread.
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:
The reference to Negrospiritual's _ rhetorical _ question as a "stupid question" is way out of line. I'm sure these posts will get deleted, but I think a pretty good would-be discussion of the relevance of the term "black on black crime" just got completely destroyed before it even got started. I'm sorry I started this thread.


Vox,

Please don't be discouraged by comments already made to this tropic. Its a good tropic and one that needs to be addressed because as lofton pointed out, its not white people running through our communities killing black people. Say what you may about rap and rap stars, but some of the biggest names in the forum were killed by other blacks.

As for the comment about whites killing their own, yes it does happen and probably in numbers that equal or maybe exceed the rate at which we kill ourselves but what does that have to do with us. While I think that any violent crime is terrible I am more horrified at the rate at which blacks especially young black males are killing each off. I have heard and read comments that speak to this issue as having everything to do with the legacy of slavery and how it still effects us. Bull****, this is about how we are not raising our kids to respect themselves, each other and life in general. We live in a society where the value of stuff is more important then the value of people; a perfect example is kids being killed for their shoes because having the right type of shoes says something about you to your peers.

What is needed now is honest discussion about black on black crime and its roots and how it can be overcome.
Do white people kill other whites? yeah,we do. But do we blame others for it? nope. whereas the majority of blacks feel that it is the white mans fault for their own vices. When whites kill one another,many whites want to be a "war on crime". Where blacks kill blacks,blacks want the black on black crime stopped. How bout just trying to end crime,period. to me,saying "black on black crime" is giving the green light (subliminally) for blacks to "not kill your own,hurt someone other than black". I for one,want crime to end. Not just white on white crime.
A moment of quiet reflection should be in order for a pioneer, role model, shaper, innovater, father, husband, brother or son to us all. That said where do or how do the thinkin class mindful soulwarriors draw the line and stop being the helpless unmotivated victims of a mad world and begin to impress upon the world the direction we need to go. This is a call to the mindful soulwarriors to band together to start effecting change in the lives of the world population, no more quiet isolation, more activation and vision lets rise up and take a stand against ignorance and teach understanding, if Ur a parent then be that if Ur and uncle/aunt then be that and if Ur human then start bein that.
Peace Love Light
Khem
There are a couple of comments that were out of hand. Slow down. Breath and let's try this again.

White folks are killing white folks in the Meth wars on par with Black folks killing Black folks in the crack wars. But, Black folks are not killing each other anywhere near the rate that slavery and its vestiages have.

When White folk kill they also look outside of themselves for blame. "It was because my mother/father didn't love me", "it was because I was picked on/ostracized by the cool kids" or whatever.

Can we blame slavery and racism for Black on Black crime? Probably so. Just like we can blame a lack of social development, where kids are not taught to value people and themselves over things. But the question can be raised are the two mutually exclusive.

Personally, I think that it's important to know and come to grips with how slavery and racism have shaped us as a people. However, the more immediate solution lies not in our history; but, in our taking control of our present, and thus, our future.

The lessons of personal responsibility can and should be taught to our youth, right along with our history. To discount one and dwell on the other, leaves us vulnerable because both are real.

To teach our youth the depth of the scars on the Black psyche caused by slavery and racism, but not to accept responsibility for our actions, will not move us forward one step. Likewise,to teach our youth personal responsibility and respect for themselves and others, but not about our history, will leave them unprepared to struggle against the challenges they face solely because of the color of their skin.
Mr. Vox,

Rhetorical or otherwise, this was in fact a stupid question. For this reason, I refuse to retract the statement nor is an apology due.

Come on now, some of you people can't be serious because most people who have lived in the hood or otherwise for a week to several years, know there is no such thing as a large number of Caucasians in any hospital emergency operating room to be treated for a senseless gunshot wound, stabbing, or otherwise, as compared to the reality of life in communities across Black America.

"Please don't be discouraged by comments already made to this topic. It is a good topic and one that needs to be addressed because as lofton pointed out, its not white people running through our communities killing black people. Say what you may about rap and rap stars, but some of the biggest names in the forum were killed by other blacks.

As for the comment about whites killing their own, yes it does happen and probably in numbers that equal or maybe exceed the rate at which we kill ourselves but what does that have to do with us. While I think that any violent crime is terrible I am more horrified at the rate at which blacks especially young black males are killing each other off.

I have heard and read comments that speak to this issue as having everything to do with the legacy of slavery and how it still effects us. Bull****, this is about how we are not raising our kids to respect themselves, each other and life in general.

We live in a society where the value of stuff is more important then the value of people; a perfect example is kids being killed for their shoes because having the right type of shoes says something about you to your peers." by Mr. jazzdog

So far, the only sensible response that even comes close to what truly goes on has come from Mr. jazzdog. I'm sure that Mr. jazzdog would agree that Caucasian Americans or otherwise are not committing anywhere near the senseless acts of violence that Black people are responsible for, and many times perpetrate against each other. Besides, as Mr. jazzdog states of what relevancy to the community of Black America as it relates to the wide spread senselessness of Black on Black crime, is any issue of Caucasians killing off each other?

To say that the racism of Caucasian America, or the wrongs of slavery past are responsible, when Black men or women pull the trigger, or lashed out with any other weapon to cause bodily harm is again absurd.

To search for statistics for a comparison of the number of Caucasians who kill other Caucasians, as compared to Black on Black crime is just as ridiculous, because outside of few incidences, Caucasians, Koreans, etc., are not on parity with any community of Black America, as it applies to senseless acts of violence that result in death, maiming, etc.

Unlike, some of you, I've lived with Black people in poverty, Caucasians in poverty, Hispanics in poverty, etc., to which the only time a pistol has ever been pulled on me, on more than one occasion, for what ever reason is beyond me, is because of the serious disregard for life, liberty, property, respect, or otherwise that exists, namely within the community of Black America. I have yet to pull the first pistol on anyone, nor have I commited the first act of violence to provide so much as a loaf of bread for my own survival, or any loved one.

The young to middle aged Black men that I see in wheel chairs around my neighborhood, did not end up there as a result of polio, a muscle disorder, etc., but rather by some senseless act of violence, namely by gunshot wound damage which resulted in a permanent spinal cord injury perpetrated by other Black people who have crippled them for life, to which Caucasian America is not the culprit, but rather the community of Black America itself. ....and these were the lucky ones, the others will never breath again.

....and to suggest that someone else other than from the community of Black America committed this latest atrocity is beyond me, for just as sure as the reality of the cause of death of Tupak Shakur, Biggy Smalls, and/or countless others, the blame rests squarely with someone from within the community of Black America, rather than Caucasian America.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

[This message was edited by Lofton on October 31, 2002 at 05:56 PM.]
negrospiritual,

"LOL @ "wrongfully incarcerated" con calling somebody else stupid"

Again, you make statements to which you can not prove. To insinuate that I'm a convict, without the first fact to support such a statement is a reflection of your mentallity and not mine.

Wrongfully incarcerated, illegally incarcerated, yes, but as reality would have it or as documented by court records I have yet to be a felon, or hold a felony jacket, or during adulthood be subjected to the authority of the first probation officer, or to serve so much as one hour in prison as you have insinuated.

The only contact of placement under probation occured in my youth while in foster care at age eleven, along with all my sisters and brothers, the youngest being two years old, because of the ignorance and incompetence of a Black probation officer who defied all reason to place my sisters and brothers on probation under her. The Caucasian judges who witnessed this could not believe their eyes or ears, to which the comment was made, surely, "you", meaning the probation officer, must mean their parents. My Dad and Mom in turned stated, and since were not criminal, this idea of probation does not apply. To make a long story short this mis-educated university educated Black probation officer proceeded to place my sisters, brothers, and I, on probation, the youngest sister being two years old.

Now since your interest is in statistics or facts, there you have it, which again is a reflection on the community of Black America, and not Caucasian America. Since you want to label me as being that convict, here is the reality of it, which again hits the community of Black America squarely across the face just as strong as a ton of bricks falling in single file, pulverizing a single red ant.


Caucasian America committed the atrocity of illegally incarcerating me for 148 P.C., at age 19, to which the Caucasian Americans responsible have accepted responsibility for their wrong doing.

The big question still stands, which is at what point in time will Black people take responsibility for their own wrongdoing rather than blaming Caucasian America, or anyone else rather than be man or woman enough to admit to their own faults?

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

[This message was edited by Lofton on October 31, 2002 at 06:27 PM.]
Factoid, the term "black on black crime" merely refers to the reality of life in many black neighborhoods. It accounts for the high number of blacks in prison. It does not mean it's ok to kill those of other races.

It is also apparent that a few are agitated when the subject comes up. These "nice people" always have some cute line or two to post whenever Mr. Lofton and myself write about the reality in many black neighborhoods.

Mr. Lofton, don't lose your cool over this. I've decided to simply post my opinions and only respond to reasonable, thoughtful replies. Any other response will get the attention it deserves....none!!

Jazzdog, you are correct that this needs to be addressed. Unfortunately it won't be. Reparations, Affirmative Action, slavery, racist America, and President Bush's shortcommings......

....These are the hot subjects.


big grin big grin big grin
Hello Mr. Bankins,


"Mr. Lofton, don't lose your cool over this. I've decided to simply post my opinions and only respond to reasonable, thoughtful replies. Any other response will get the attention it deserves....none!!"


Very well stated. It seems that only a few of a few within the community of Black America truly know what time it is.

You are right, I too will spend more time responding to the reasonable as compared to the ridiculous. It is just that sometimes the ridiculous must still be challenged to give sound advice to yet one more law abiding U.S. citizen of Black America, to hopefully keep them from accepting or following this huge cab of ignorance that exists within our community.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton
Lofton, I understand your posts and on some points agree and others disagree. Not that you care what I think; but I must say that your constant claim that everyone that disagrees with you is blind, deluded or stupid, simply doesn't bolster your argument. In fact, such assertions actual impede your arguments.

Why can't their disagreement be simply that they disagree?

Are we such a monoidealic people that there is no room for intelligent disagreement.

However, my offense is probably evidence of my blindness, delusion or stupidity
I'm seeing a lot of statements about how white people are killing each other at such a high rate over this and over that, more than blacks. I'm sorry, but can somebody cite some statistics? Or show where you're getting this information? I know that nobody trusts the media, but I haven't heard any news about Huey Lewis getting killed in a studio, or Billy Corgan getting shot on the strip in LA. But in the rap world, since 1996 we've had 2Pac, Biggie, Big L, Freaky Tah from the Lost Boys, and now Jam Master Jay, and those are just off the top of my head. Now, multiply that to get the number of non-rappers gunned down senselessly. There are those of us with some sense, who lack the "black deep denial" hormone that robs so many of us --- so many of you on this thread, frankly -- of the self-pride necessary to want better for our people.

There are two types of pride. One's a virtue, the other is a "deadly sin." The sinful pride is the pride that induces us to deny that anything is wrong with us. It makes us so psychologically needy that we actually rationalize and embrace the worst in ourselves, justifying them and pretending that the worst is pretty good. Virtuous pride is the pride that makes us refuse to accept the worst in ourselves. It forces us to aspire to more. This pride makes shame possible; it uses shame to make us better people. Sinful pride robs us of a sense of shame. That which is shameful is something to be "proud" of, "because it's what I am."

I wasn't happy with the way Lofton got at Negrospiritual, but I wholeheartedly agree with his position. People who minimize the culture of violence that reigns over our communities are committing a deadly sin against our people. You need to stop it. The same goes for people who refuse to assign responsibility for it to our people. Other people in this country don't have this growing sub-cultural norm that transient, insignificant beefs trump a man's right to life and his family's needs. A significant number of inner city blacks my age and under seem to think this way. If it's 2002 and we still are debating the truth of this, still denying it, then we will deny our way straight into irrelevance, and eventually, extinction.
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:

People who minimize the culture of violence that reigns over our communities are committing a deadly sin against our people.


I agree.

It's hard for me to believe that the ease of access to, and availablity of, hand guns is not a contributor to this "culture". It seems a bit inconsistent to decry violence, yet embrace its tools.

Onward and Upward!
Mr. Kweli4Real,

When anyone from our community deserves praise I will praise them and commend them for their accomplishments. Should anyone do something foolish or stupid, and at the same time I'm able to recognize it I will speak my mind no matter who it is.

Should I do anything foolish, backwards, ignorant, I would appreciate it very much if anyone brought such an action to my attention, because paying attention to sound advice may save my life, keep me from spending a day in jail, keep me from paying a fine, keep me from losing money, prevent me from being somebody's fool, maintain my health, protect a loved one, or keep me from paying any other price brought on by an act of foolishness, backwardsness, or just plain ignorance. Plain and simple I want to know, even if it came down to being physically rattled by force into the reality of it, rather than to face a more serious reality for lack of not doing the right thing in the first place.

There is nothing wrong with constructive criticism. The greater harm or real wrong is committed when anyone who knows or sees anything destructive or foolish going on around them takes on the position to remain silent, or who does nothing about it, which pretty much describes our community right now.

Too many individuals see wrong activity going on all around them, and few want to do anything about it. More times than not, the ones who know the difference between right and wrong keep their mouths shut, race to get away from the community like a "Bat trying to Make Fast Time to get out of Hell", insist on saying its Caucasian America's fault, or continue to state this activity is based on the past slavery of Black people by Caucasian America.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

[This message was edited by Lofton on November 01, 2002 at 05:46 AM.]
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:


It's hard for me to believe that the ease of access to, and availablity of, hand guns is not a contributor to this "culture". It seems a bit inconsistent to decry violence, yet embrace its tools.




When violence plagues one group more than others, in a country where legal guns are equally easy to obtain across all areas, it seems to me that the gun issue itself doesn't explain the discrepancy. I like any law that makes it easy to trace guns to their legal owners, and bullets to guns. If nothing else, it can be an aid in solving crimes. But banning legal gun ownership, or moving in that direction, to cut down on violence committing largely by illegal guns, is a kind of like cutting off someones arms to make them blind. If Jam-Master Jay had a gun-toting bodyguard that night, he'd probably still be alive.
"I wasn't happy with the way Lofton got at Negrospiritual, but I wholeheartedly agree with his position. People who minimize the culture of violence that reigns over our communities are committing a deadly sin against our people. You need to stop it. The same goes for people who refuse to assign responsibility for it to our people. Other people in this country don't have this growing sub-cultural norm that transient, insignificant beefs trump a man's right to life and his family's needs. A significant number of inner city blacks my age and under seem to think this way. If it's 2002 and we still are debating the truth of this, still denying it, then we will deny our way straight into irrelevance, and eventually,"

To wholeheartedly agree with Lofton is to wholeheartedly denigrate, berate, and dehumanize black americans without acknowleding the conditions that produce violence in this country. I beg the question, where has anyone stated that violence in the African-American community is not a problem? Nowhere. Where has anyone said we should not accept responsibility for repairing our own community? Nowhere. But the reality is that since Black americans are only 12% of the population- they can never be committing 100% of the crimes.

The label "Black on BLack" is misleading in my opinion since White americans are on killing sprees, comitting bank robberies while killing, raiding corporate accounts, taking advantage of the elderly, being serial rapists/murderers, burning, whipping, and dragging folks in hate crimes, killing up young black men in our county jails while pretending it was suicide, and killing up their own women/children in domestic violence situations or insurance scams, etc, RELENTLESSLY, EVERY DAY. The "Black on Black" label implies that whites are not chopping up/shooting/stabbing their own and that blacks are particularly violent. Why is their murderous/criminal behavior not attributed to their race? Blacks kill over tennis shoes...whites kill over insurance policies. But killing is killing, right?

Here in this thread, violence has been attributed to blackness, and specifically inner city blackness. As if being black and being violent are mutually exclusive! That's the same crap white people perpetuate amongst themselves as truth about us! Why should we swallow it? Smacks of black hatred toward blackness. Are we here in this forum violent? Or did we have the right encouragement support and opportunities? Black people are not inherently violent and should not be compared to "other groups" who come here b/c historically there can be no comparison. How can so-called educated-conscious-concerned black people examine the issue of violence in the black community and not see the conditions which engender it? Is it that we fancy ourselves a "different kind of negro"?

Yes, violence in all its forms is a problem in inner-city, suburban, and rural black america.

This will not decrease until the conditions which produce it are addressed. Not until there are

opportunities for blacks to work and support ourselves honestly

adequate clean safe housing at affordable prices

efforts to stop glorifying violence and misogyny in our music and videos

law enforcement with a personal investment in keeping black communities safe-not just restricted

high expectations for the futures of black children

decrease in the lucrative nature of drug trade, in addition to treatment programs that work for black people.

Black men en masse who are willing to be fathers and not just sperm donors.

Black women en masse who are willing to be mothers, not just sex objects.

Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats can do this for us...I agree, we must take on this responsibility.

"I coulda freed thousands more if only they had known they were slaves..."

Harriet Tubman
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lofton:


_I think it would be better for you to answer your own stupid question. Or perhaps someone else on this board may be kind enough to enlighten you!_

Should I do anything foolish, backwards, ignorant, I would appreciate it very much if anyone brought such an action to my attention.


Consider it done.

Lofton: You owe negrospiritual an apology. Calling her question "stupid" was indeed a shining example of backward, ignorant behavior.


Apparantly, you haven't spent much time in the inner-city, or around any predominately Black community, such as Detroit, Baltimore, East St. Louis, South Central Los Angeles when it was predominately Black, Compton, Ca., when it was predominately Black, etc., because very few escape being shot, stabbed, raped, robbed, murdered, etc. Virtually any given day, in any "Killer King, Butcher King Hospital, the emergency room is filled with Black people who have been shot, stabbed, seriously wounded, etc.



Now, for your ramblings of what goes on central city hospitals: I have walked those halls for twenty years in Toledo and Detroit with a brief stint at Roosevelt's ER in Manhattan (you may remember them from 9/11 coverage.)

You are wrong. You are perpetrating a stereotype. No doubt you've spent too much time watching trauma shows on TV. You would do well to be quiet before you embarrass yourself any further. I refer to the second paragraph above...consider it done, again.
Negrospiritual, what I find interesting about your post is that at the end, you address a litany of specifics that we need to address. It's almost as though I'm arguing with somebody who agrees with me 100% on what's important. I think, after all of this, that the only reason we disagree is that you take my stance on black violence as denigrating us, while I see that it's time to stop pulling punches, wake up, and get busy on controlling what we can control to end these problems.

quote:
Originally posted by negrospiritual:
Gold medals to all the bandwagon jumpers!


Not sure who that's addressed to, but I've been saying we need to take responsibility for our disproportionate shortcomings for a long, long time.

quote:


To wholeheartedly agree with Lofton is to wholeheartedly denigrate, berate, and dehumanize black americans without acknowleding the conditions that produce violence in this country.


No, understanding the problems and acknowledging the conditions is one thing. Taking ourselves to task for focusing on the root origins and not on current solutions is another. It's important to acknowledge the earthquake, but the people themselves are the ones who have to rebuild. Understanding the root cause allows you to know that you have to rebuild stronger than before, but no external force is going to rebuild what the external force destroyed. If the townspeople sit around wallowing in their city's destruction, picking up slabs of rock that the earthquake left behind, and throwing them at the two or three buildings left standing, purposely inhaling the fumes left by the broken gas manes and saying, "damn that earthquake," then you're damn right they deserve to be criticized. The criticism is designed to snap them out of it, not to encourage them to keep on wallowing.

quote:
I beg the question, where has anyone stated that violence in the African-American community is not a problem? Nowhere. Where has anyone said we should not accept responsibility for repairing our own community? Nowhere.


The phrase, "Don't white people murder each other," was made on this thread somewhere, I think by either you or Icon. Where it's made in response to concerns about black-on-black crime, the clear implication is that there's no particularly severe problem with violence in our communities, relative to anybody else. If someone tells me my house is a mess, and I respond, "But isn't Lou's house also a mess?", What I'm saying is, "I'm no more messy than Lou's, so why are you singling me out as if I'm some major slob compared to Lou?" But when it turns out that Lou's house is NOWHERE NEAR as messy as my house, then my bringing up Lou in the first place was done out of a sense of denial. There is no question about that. When we really acknowledge the disproportion of our problems, the less severe problems of other people do not even get brought up in the conversation, unless we're looking to demonstrate how much worse our situation is than theirs.

quote:

...the reality is that since Black americans are only 12% of the population- they can never be committing 100% of the crimes.


No, but we should only be committing 12% of the crimes! It strongly appears as though we're committing far more than 12% of the crimes. Worse, it appears that we're being VICTIMIZED by far more than 12% of the crimes, and the vast majority of them are being cause by those who look like us. This is the whole point: it's not the existence of black-on-black crime. It's the DISPROPORTION that's the problem.

quote:

The label "Black on BLack" is misleading in my opinion since White americans are on killing sprees, comitting bank robberies while killing, raiding corporate accounts, taking advantage of the elderly, being serial rapists/murderers, burning, whipping, and dragging folks in hate crimes, killing up young black men in our county jails while pretending it was suicide, and killing up their own women/children in domestic violence situations or insurance scams, etc, RELENTLESSLY, EVERY DAY. The "Black on Black" label implies that whites are not chopping up/shooting/stabbing their own and that blacks are particularly violent. Why is their murderous/criminal behavior not attributed to their race?


"Black-on-black crime" is not a misleading term, because "black-on-black" modifies the word "crime." If there's crime that we feel the need to describe as black-on-black, then there must be crime that's not black-on-black. If we wanted to say that whites don't commit crimes, then we would call black-on-black crime "crime," period, and call white crime something other than "crime."

And I'm not "attributing" anything to "our race," because there's nothing biological about it. West Africans were known to non-blacks as particularly non-violent and non-criminal, in the middle ages. I'm not attributing anything to anything. I'm just saying we have to stop denying the disproportion and start taking a stand against it. If you plan on continuing to deny that the disproportion exists, then this conversation need not continue.


quote:
Blacks kill over tennis shoes...whites kill over insurance policies. But killing is killing, right?


Killing is killing. But disproportionate killing is disproportionate killing.

quote:
As if being black and being violent are mutually exclusive!


I think you're misusing the term. The two should be mutually exclusive, and they are. Black does not = violence. As ibn Battuta, the Arab explorer, said in the 13th century, black = love of justice. It's time we collectively re-embrace that aspect of our nature, and work to erase the disproportion of social ills in our communities.
thanks to Herdswoman for adding that insight on her experiences in inner-city hospitals.


VOX,

In no way can any "denial" about violence in the african american community be attributed to my posts.

What can be accurately detected is amazement that black people will follow the pattern of white america to demonize black americans, while ignoring the contribution of white america to the violence in our community.

How can one agree that certain conditions engender violence in african america, yet continue to deny that those conditions are largely not of african-american design? At the same time we are overlooking that the Majority of African Americans are exactly like us on this board, non-violent, hard-working, tax-paying , "truly law abiding" black citizens.

Do black people have an unspoken policy of not hiring other black people? No. Do music industry executives demand nasty misogynistic and violent music because young black boys are buying up 70% of all the rap cd's? No. Do black people grow, manufacture drugs, and ship/or fly in drugs?
No. Do Black people deny access to housing based on skincolor, hike up rent prices, clamour for placement in "projects", and move en masse out of neighborhoods when a few black families move in? No. Do Black magazines glorify blonde hair and blue eyes with curveless hips as the epitome of beauty, while devaluing black women? NO.

How about the effect of the media? Reporting on black crimes while ignoring white ones lends to a shroud of innocence around criminal whites - while having the effect of criminalizing all blacks. Judging from this thread, black folks swallow that propaganda. Entertainment shows largely portray most criminals as black - when that is not reality. White people are violent toward white people because they have access to white people. Yet we don't decry a "white on white crime" epidemic. Black people are violent toward black people because they have access to black people and black people are demonized despite the conditions which are ripe for violence.

We have yet to mention the despair and depression which is rampant in poor black neighborhoods due to lack of economic opportunity. It seems easier to blame it on 'good for nothing violent' black people.

I don't believe BLack Americans are responsible for creating this climate, but I do believe Black Americans are the ones who must fix it.

To assert that looking closely at what we are saying when we say "black on black crime" is some how an act of "denial" is to assert a lie.

"I coulda freed thousands more if only they had known they were slaves..."

Harriet Tubman

[This message was edited by negrospiritual on November 03, 2002 at 07:23 AM.]
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:

When violence plagues one group more than others, in a country where legal guns are equally easy to obtain across all areas, it seems to me that the gun issue itself doesn't explain the discrepancy.


Some might argue that since gun violence is perhaps more damaging to the AA community that we have an even greater responsibility to be even more critical of them, despite any ideological affection for the 2nd Ammendment.

Onward and Upward!
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:

When violence plagues one group more than others, in a country where legal guns are equally easy to obtain across all areas, it seems to me that the gun issue itself doesn't explain the discrepancy.


Some might argue that since gun violence is perhaps more damaging to the AA community that we have an even greater responsibility to be even more critical of them, despite any ideological affection for the 2nd Ammendment.

Onward and Upward!


Good point. But remember, as I said once before, the 2nd Amendment is misunderstood. "keep and bear arms" was an English legal term that meant "render military service/serve in the militia." It had nothing whatsoever to do with ownership of any firearm of any kind. They didn't mean "guns" any more than they meant "biceps." The founders would either laugh or cry if they knew how badly this country has misinterpreted that amendment.

However, I'm still very much opposed to banning firearms other than assault weapons. It's just too late, and there are too many illegal guns around to make it work.

Add Reply

Post
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×