Anyone know of Jaguar Wright's music. She is one of the early artists of the Neo-Soul movement - as I understand it.

Vox? AG?

© MBM

Original Post
Please define Neo-Soul... new soul?
What flavour is it?
...does she have any song downloads you know of?
btw: Great name Smile
Jaquar Wright... I don't remember being all that impressed with her. She can sing her ass off, but I wasn't thrilled with the material. I don't remember what it sounded like now, though, so I could be wrong (but then again, why don't I remember it?!?) I see where she has a new album out, so maybe I'll check it out online soon...

Art Gurl, neo-soul is the name for a style of r&b music. I don't know how often Jill Scott, Erykah Badu, Maxwell, & Musiq get to Australia, but they are probably among the most well-known artists in the genre. Depending on who you talk to, it's kind of the "alternative," or the "intelligent," or the "artsy," style of r&b music, separable from mainstream r&b by a combination of its vibe and its tendency to take its artistry more seriously. AudioGuy can probably give you a more intelligent description, though...
I actually saw Jaguar perform a few weeks ago in Atlantic City (she was the opening act for Babyface). She does have a nice voice (her material reminds me of Jill Scott), but I was not impressed with her stage presence. She kept her back to the audience a lot while she was engaging with her band during the songs and she seemed a bit full of herself as well...or perhaps I was just tired of her warm-up and ready for Face to take the stage...! Razz But I will give her credit for having a strong voice.
Babyface is touring again? What's up with him? He hasn't had a CD or even a single out, it seems, in eons. I do love his New Edition hits though!!! tfro
Yes, actually Face is opening for Anita Baker (they have a duet on her CD). But he's touring to promote his new CD that came out on 7/26. Very nice tunes. His brother, Kevon (from After 7)is on tour with him singing back up. I highly recommend the show. MBM, you would have enjoyed his show in Atlantic City...he actually sang some of the New Edition hits!
quote:
Originally posted by pam:

MBM, you would have enjoyed his show in Atlantic City...he actually sang some of the New Edition hits!


C'mon, Babyface trying to sing like Bobby Brown. Never! tongue
MBM...you are about to make me upset...do NOT compare Babyface to Bobby Brown...going down the wrong road there my friend! The 3500 people at Face's show didn't seem to think his singing of New Edition's songs were off! The brother is talented...! And he sings BETTER than Bobby Brown (and would have a better reality show too!). bsm
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:
Art Gurl, neo-soul is the name for a style of r&b music. I don't know how often Jill Scott, Erykah Badu, Maxwell, & Musiq get to Australia, but they are probably among the most well-known artists in the genre. Depending on who you talk to, it's kind of the "alternative," or the "intelligent," or the "artsy," style of r&b music, separable from mainstream r&b by a combination of its vibe and its tendency to take its artistry more seriously. AudioGuy can probably give you a more intelligent description, though...


Thanks Vox. I'm very familiar with Jill Scott - love her sound and a lot of her lyrics. I did wonder how to 'catagorise it' - and was happy not to - so I'm a little suprised to hear her described as r&b, but happy it is far removed from that nasty mainstream r&b stuff. I don't know if Jill will ever get to Australia but I think she would go down a treat, as they say. Not sure she gets much airplay apart from her hit 'Golden'. And to be brutally honest, most of the meaning of the lyrics to that song might be 'lost' to the beat, for commercial radio listeners here. So Jill... if you're listening, hook up with Triple J radio in Sydney... it's a truly independent radio station with listeners who think with their ears!! Wink Good place for anyone interested to check out young Australian indie talent http://www.abc.net.au/triplej/

Closest 'local' talent to Jill - in style and material - would be Vassy tfro who is Greek-Australian and still 'small time' compared to Jill.

Thanks for the others... some more names to investigate. I love music... you can think it, dance it, live it, breathe it, evolve with it. Smile

hmm... not sure if AGuy ever plans to have any more dialog with me Wink Big Grin Gwaaaan!
quote:
Originally posted by art_gurl:
hmm... not sure if AGuy ever plans to have any more dialog with me Wink Big Grin Gwaaaan!
What are you talking about???!!!
Nothing personal, but... I have spent a good portion of my adult life explaining Black culture to white people and quite frankly I am tired of it...

If you don't get it... you don't get it...

I will say this though, Neo-Soul represents a return to real music, where people can sing and musicians can play w/o the need for a great deal of processing magic - something that seemed to be pushed to the back burner during the 90's.

Isn't you boyfriend/husband African american? He doesn't have any answers??
quote:
Originally posted by AudioGuy:
Nothing personal, but... I have spent a good portion of my adult life explaining Black culture to white people and quite frankly I am tired of it...

If you don't get it... you don't get it...

I will say this though, Neo-Soul represents a return to real music, where people can sing and musicians can play w/o the need for a great deal of processing magic - something that seemed to be pushed to the back burner during the 90's.

Isn't you boyfriend/husband African american? He doesn't have any answers??


nothing personal but... LOL!! Wink

I do 'get' the music... it's all the categorising nonsense and genre name calling I find it hard to keep track of.

Personally, music comes first before the 'label'.

Most commercial music is like commercial blockbuster filmmaking - crap!

So, I'm glad of any re-focus back on the magic of the MUSIC instead of, and usually at the expense of, production.

Unfortunately, when most Australians think of commerical American music (mainly talking white music here) there is an overall sense of the song as a copy-and-paste production session with 500 technicians in studio and some blanded out words written by 50 yr old white guys thrown over the top of a video clip of a gorgeous but manufactured girl, with a product placement in-shot, who is either incapable of, or not allowed to, write any lyrics.

WHERE are the women singer/SONGWRITERS????

As to asking my bf... he has his definition sure. Our music tastes differ widely because we grew up in different countries, cultures, and have different life experiences. Of course they overlap in certain areas and that's great too. He hates hip-hop, and doesn't indentify with a lot of alternative music I like. Wink

I'm sorry you are 'tired of explaining Black culture to white people'. I am not just a white person, I am living breathing unique individual who is naturally curious about everything in this life.

I always find that it is irrelevant whether people are rich, poor, smart, stupid, black, white, whatever - universally, if people are interested enought to ask a question, it is both gracious, intelligent and shows generousity of spirit to at least try to explain things to them.

But more importantly, isn't it also an opportunity for 'you' to express your own unique, individual viewpoint? Ever consider that maybe that is WHY I ask questions on this site, or of anybody. Perhaps I don't want a generic, one-sizes-fits-all answer.

There is no drama Audio Guy Smile perhaps I just sense a vibe of suspicion. But it's all good, as they say. tfro
As far as Jaguar Wright goes...

She's one of my favorit neo-soul vocalist. (with my favorite being Bilal). Her lyrics are a bit harsh on middle-aged to older crowds, but neo-soul is not about 'dressin' up music with diplomacy. It's what I call 'street-love'.
quote:
Originally posted by art_gurl:

... it's all the categorising nonsense and genre name calling I find it hard to keep track of.

Personally, music comes first before the 'label'.


That is definitely true, Art-Gurl... by my reckoning (others may disagree), what we now call the neo-soul movement started around late 1988, with a song called "Tribute (Right On)" by the Pasadenas.

(Oh yeah, MBM... what do you mean Jaguar Wright's one of the "early" neo-soul artists? But I digress...)

As I was trying to say before I rudely interrupted myself, 1988/89 was when it became clear that there was a "movement," or a "scene," of this music. Within a few years, I and a few friends started referring to it as "alternative r&b" or "soul alternative," but it wasn't until years later, around 1997, around Erykah Badu's entrance, that people started talking about it as "neo-soul." I resisted that term for a long time, and I only use it now because people know what I'm talking about when I use it...

One reason I hate the term now is because it's under that terminology that urban radio has gotten their corny hands on the music. So as HeruStar alluded to, some older folks have taken to what radio stations have packaged it into. The result is that a lot of the recent "neo-soul" is kind of boring... I read somebody say that neo-soul is the "new jack quiet storm." That's because they don't understand. They get their exposure to the music from wack "love man" djs on "After Hours" R&B radio programs.

But there's a lot of variety in the music; for every Kem and Vivian Green, there's a Bilal (Go, HeruStar), Fertile Ground, Van Hunt, and Cooly's Hot-Box, reminding me that it really is still "alternative" and edgy... and bangin'!
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:
... what we now call the neo-soul movement started around late 1988, with a song called "Tribute (Right On)" by the Pasadenas...
Vox... all I got to say is WOW!!! Your musical "lexicon" is astounding... You must have been a DJ in another life...

ArtGirl, sorry if you are offended, but you have no idea what it's like to be constantly questioned about what Black people do...
Last edited {1}
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:
... what we now call the neo-soul movement started around late 1988, with a song called "Tribute (Right On)" by the Pasadenas...
Vox... all I got to say is WOW!!! Your musical "lexicon


Yeah... that's definitely interesting. I totally disagree, so I guess I got some research to do.
"ArtGirl, sorry if you are offended, but you have no idea what it's like to be constantly questioned about what Black people do..."

I hear ya. Smile And you are absolutely right - I don't have any idea. It would be arrogant and just plain stupid of me to pretend otherwise. Wink Peace.
quote:
Originally posted by HeruStar:
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:
... what we now call the neo-soul movement started around late 1988, with a song called "Tribute (Right On)" by the Pasadenas...


Yeah... that's definitely interesting. I totally disagree, so I guess I got some research to do.


I'm intrigued... Where would you put the starting point? When I say that others may disagree, that's because some people I'd imagine would want to put it back a bit further, to maybe Sade. But I don't know if Sade was part of the "scene" that produced the rest of it. Maybe she/they were, since they were from London also. (That whole neo/alternative scene started in London, for the most part...) But if so, I wouldn't expect for other stuff to have taken so many years afterwards to come out...

Although that makes me wonder whether there is other such music that I don't know about, that came out between Sade (1985) and 1988. Imagine discovering three & four years worth of this stuff from back then! I may have to do some research as well...


AudioGuy ... credit WBLS in NYC for that one. They actually played "Tribute" for a little while back then. If it wasn't for that, I would have thought Soul II Soul was the beginning. And in truth, the rest of the Pasadenas' stuff sounded totally different from that cut... But man, what I wouldn't give to get that song on mp3...
quote:
Originally posted by AudioGuy:

ArtGirl, sorry if you are offended, but you have no idea what it's like to be constantly questioned about what Black people do...


Past experience indicates that it can get annoying, because there has to come a point where you get tired of being like the ambassador. But for me it hasn't happened like that in a long time, because outside of work, I don't spend a lot of time around white people (this area here is as segregated as it gets, northern NJ). So questions especially about things like neo-soul (which white people, I find know surprisingly little about compared to other kinds of black music), particularly to foreign white people, don't bother me.
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:
quote:
Originally posted by AudioGuy:

ArtGirl, sorry if you are offended, but you have no idea what it's like to be constantly questioned about what Black people do...


Past experience indicates that it can get annoying, because there has to come a point where you get tired of being like the ambassador. But for me it hasn't happened like that in a long time, because outside of work, I don't spend a lot of time around white people (this area here is as segregated as it gets, northern NJ). So questions especially about things like neo-soul (which white people, I find know surprisingly little about compared to other kinds of black music), particularly to foreign white people, don't bother me.


lol.
...like you said, I want to know the 'definition' of NeoSoul so I decided to 'ask around'.
...like I said, I wasn't after a spokesperson per se - who can speak for all Black people ?? LOL... more the personal touch Smile

and the answers - and mp3 - have been cool Cool 2JJJ radio interviewed someone (missed their name) from Soul II Soul yesterday as I was driving - interesting guy. With I think, a female producer?? Now there's a rarity.
quote:
Frenchy, could you be any cooler, please?


No, I don't think so. As a matter of fact, Cool called me the other day and told me he was changing his name to Frenchy. I'm IT, baby! cabbage Ha ha ha! Razz
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:

Depending on who you talk to, it's kind of the "alternative," or the "intelligent," or the "artsy," style of r&b music, separable from mainstream r&b by a combination of its vibe and its tendency to take its artistry more seriously.


Could Neo-Soul have its roots in music by folks like Al Jarreau, Anita Baker . . . even Babyface? What about Prince? Stevie Wonder?

(What abouat something like Soul II Soul "A happy face, a thumpin' bass for a lovin' race."? How would you classify it? Perhaps on the funkier side of this early early genre?)

Rich acoustic music, focus on soulful vocals, etc. It would seem that if Sade is included (who's music I think is "pretty", but also rather simple/plain/pop oriented), then couldn't some of these others also be included?

Thoughts?
I think that Neo-Soul had it roots in a melding of Hip-Hop and R&B... Something that I dare say started in england...
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:

Ima take a stab in the dark here and say

Meshell Ndgcheo (so I can't spell Razz)
Maxwell, D'Angelo(Ambassador), Angie Stone, RAPHAEL SAADIQ(Godfather of Neo-Soul)

This will be some interesting digging, proving that. Provided I'm right. Cool

quote:
Originally posted by HeruStar:

Ima take a stab in the dark here and say

Meshell Ndgcheo (so I can't spell Razz)
Maxwell, D'Angelo(Ambassador), Angie Stone, RAPHAEL SAADIQ(Godfather of Neo-Soul)

This will be some interesting digging, proving that. Provided I'm right. Cool



YIKES!!!!!!!!!! Raphael Saadiq? The Godfather of neo-soul?!?!?!?!?

Interesting. He did have a hand in D'Angelo's music. But no way am I giving "Little Walter" or "It Never Rains in Southern California" any relationship to this music.

I've read where Erykah, D'Angelo, & Maxwell give credit to people like Omar & Soul II Soul, so I'm thinking there's a clear relationship between the London sounds I knew about in the early 90s, and the American artists in the genre today.

Soul II Soul/Caron Wheeler
Young Disciples
Omar
Brand New Heavies
Drizabone
D-Influence (Damn, they were the bomb!!)
early Jamiroquai
Jhelisa

And of course, in '95, '96 '97, it came home, with Groove Theory/Amel larrieux, D'Angelo, Maxwell, & Erykah Badu among others... If you're talking about who influenced its growth, you have to give props to the Roots, because they're directly responsible for Jill Scott, India.arie, and the beginnings of the Philly scene.

Before the "neo-soul" label was invented, when it was all of these British artists, fans of this music also tended to be into trip-hop and acid jazz, and some people just called it all acid jazz. But other than Incognito, I can't think of many a-j artists who've had a lasting impact on neo-soul... Maybe one day I'll do a neo-soul org chart or something...
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:

Soul II Soul/Caron Wheeler
Young Disciples
Omar
Brand New Heavies
Drizabone
D-Influence (Damn, they were the bomb!!)
early Jamiroquai
Jhelisa


Don't know these names... but I'll try to find some of their stuff


quote:
Groove Theory/Amel larrieux


sorry I forgot to mention her name... she's great, but too slow for neo-soul

"It never Rains" is Raphael's old stuff. I like Raphael as a Producer, D'Angelos "How does it feel" Angie Stones "My Brother" Bilal's "Soul Sister" are just a few of his greats. Listen to his new song "Rifle Love".

The Bass line in a song is everything to me. And in my opinion Raphael Saadiq is the best bass player in the neo-soul business.

And yeah, forgot about the Roots (Ahmir-Khalib Thompson) QuestLove is my favorite drummer in the business. Bilal's "Sometimes" is his best work.
I hate to be a "flip-flopper," but I have to say I've gotten a full listen, and this CD, the new one at least, is really good. I ended up downloading it off of iTunes, & it's right up there in heavy rotation.

I guess those 2 or 3 little soundclips I checked out before don't really give you a judgeable picture. Glad to see that powerful voice isn't being wasted on the b.s. mainstream R&B that I thought it was at first.

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